Say Anything Blog

You keep referring to Obamas’ former pastor as if it meant something.

You really should keep your posts focused on what Obama thinks and not about what other people say, because it doesn’t speak to anything about Obama.

It’s his church, and Obama’s attendance of it is a tacit endorsement of Wright’s message of hatred and racial division.

The only thing I considered when I chose how to worship God is what my church’s pastor thought about American foreign policy. It makes sense to assume that Obama is the same way, right?

Oh wait, that’s fucking retarded. Par for the course, Rob!

Um, Hannitized, he’s the “former” pastor because the pastor retired, not because Obama is rejecting his theology.  Sorry, misleading rhetoric, 15 yards from the line of scrimmage.

And yes, Todd, I will judge a political candidate based on the political views expressed and supported by his church, especially if those views reveal a view of the world completely at variance with reality, as Obama’s pastor’s are.  At a certain point, political views are every bit as much a truth claim as any theological precept, and hence someone who fails to challenge these views--either by standing up or by leaving--more or less accepts them to a degree.

That’s not acceptable.

Did you hear the news? John McCain’s gardener is a socialist!

This isn’t good for McCain.

At a certain point, political views are every bit as much a truth claim as any theological precept, and hence someone who fails to challenge these views--either by standing up or by leaving--more or less accepts them to a degree.

What are your pastor’s views on campaign-finance reform? You’d better find out soon--they are your views too, unless you quit!

Did you hear the news? John McCain’s gardener is a socialist!

Does it matter what the beliefs of the gardener are?

Now ask the question:

Does it matter what the beliefs of the pastor are?

Therein lies the difference.

You might think that it is “fucking retarded”, but people pick their church based upon the beliefs of that church. Far from “fucking retarded”, it is a very pertinent point.

Todd, there are some issues that one can “agree to disagree” about, and some that are not amenable to this approach.  I could “agree to disagree” about campaign finance reform, but not about a pastor who pronounced a curse on his own country from the pulpit.

Got it?  There are central issues, and there are peripheral issues.  There are public issues, and there are private issues. 

And for the record, I know my pastors quite well, and am very confident that we’re in almost complete agreement on virtually every issue.

Rob,
Get over it! Please! For your own sanity.

We are all judged, as we should be, to a great extent, by our long term, intimate associations. Since Whistler is a Christian, let us assume his church teaches white supremacy and the enslavement of all non-whites; but Whistler assures Rob he does not share those views, should Rob judge what kind of associate on his blog Whistler would make based on his promises or his more important, longer standing religious views?

When an association spans two decades, the candidate refers to his pastor as his mentor and that mentor/pastor is an anti-American racist of the worst kind, we must ask why Obama would continue that association unless he to some degree shared that pastor’s values. As to judging Obama on his public statements and policies as a candidate, are we to believe the two positions are divorced from one another, or should we suspect that he is saying one thing to get elected while believing another completely opposite thing? (I know that never happens, right?)

It is okay if Obama left such a Church and still remained personal friends, with this oddball ‘uncle’ figure, then we would know by his actions he divorced himself from what the pastor taught. But, to remain under that pastor’s teaching and not, at that time, divorce himself from the church’s teachings must cause us to believe he shares those views today.

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

If John McCain went to a church where the Reverend was a Klan leader I think Todd and Hannitized would care.

And they should care, if that were true.

One way of judging a person’s character and personality is to look at who they choose to associate themselves with.  If you belong to a some radical group (and I think this church, which Obama still attends) qualifies as such, then you’re going to be judged by that association.

That may be inconvenient for Obama’s liberal supporters, but it’s true none-the-less.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob.  Correct.  The double-racial-standard yet again.  Not only did his (ex) pastor use profanity, but his church is very close to loosing its tax free status.

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Communism is evil

And yes, Todd, I will judge a political candidate based on the political views expressed and supported by his church, especially if those views reveal a view of the world completely at variance with reality, as Obama’s pastor’s are.

I went to a church where the pastor preached about supporting Isreal and this and that about how important it is to protect Isreal.

I never particularly agreed with him on that.  What does it say about me?  Nothing, except that I disagreed with his ideas to blend politics with religion and that I disagreed with him.

You are missing the point.

If John McCain went to a church where the Reverend was a Klan leader I think Todd and Hannitized would care.

I don’t equate whiney over the top pastors who cry about the victimization racism to the KKK who killed, intimidated and victimized, suppressed and attempted to segregate and politically isolate their fellow man.

The fact that you equate the two shows why you have no business commenting on this subject.

Rob,
Do you have proof that Obama still attends this church?
Neiman,
If you have been associated with someone for 20 years why can’t you remain friends, even if you disagree with them. I attended this fundamendalist church for several years. When the message got to extreme for me, I left. I still consider the pastor a friend. But, I will never return to his church.

Does it matter what the beliefs of the gardener are?

It matters what his beliefs about gardening are, sure.

Now ask the question:

Does it matter what the beliefs of the pastor are?

It matters what his beliefs about religion are, sure.

See what I did? This is why I’m so clever!

You choose a gardener based for his gardening views. You choose a pastor for his religious views.

If John McCain went to a church where the Reverend was a Klan leader I think Todd and Hannitized would care.

And to answer your question.  I doubt that I would considering how John McCain handled himself with the immigration reform.  You see, I would judge him by his actions and I actually sort of like John McCain.

I had neighbors who were members of the KKK.  They were nice neighbors and offered my sister and I lemonade all the time as kids.  Even though we were darkies.  And guess what?  We were nice to them too.

I still don’t think you get it.

“The government gives them [black people] the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people,” [Pastor Wright, 2003]

I think Clair says it best..
I’ll leave it to those more scholarly and knowledgeable than I to find that Bible verse.  I’m just wondering that I never noticed that part of the Federal budget earmarked “free crack for black folks.”

[In 2006, the Obamas gave $22,500 to the church.]

The 8,000-member church describes itself as “unashamedly black” and holds classes in “African-centered Bible study.”

Obama pledged to honor something called the “Black Value System,” a cult like code of non biblical ethics written by blacks for blacks. It preaches a radically exclusive theology that contradicts the tenets of Christianity.

Since all the attention to the Afrocentric system, has lead traffic to their website, the church has removed a lot from the “About Us” page of its web site, replacing the entire section with a glowing video testimonial from a white official with its parent United Church of Christ.

But according to the original Web page, that we read in an earlier SA post, Trinity puts the “black community” first.

Obama says he respects his preacher and is “proud” of their friendship, as well as his church, which proclaims: “We are an African people, and remain true to our native land, the mother continent.” In a 2006 interview with BeliefNet.com, Obama called Wright “one of the greatest preachers in the country.”

Obama, calls the dashiki-attiring preachin’ man of his aggressively militant black church his “spiritual adviser and mentor”. “It was the best education I ever had,” he has said of his indoctrination by Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

I consider their close relationship extremely disturbing.  Wright is an America-hating race-monger. He blames practically every ill on “white America,” I just do not understand how people can be so unconcerned with Obama’s association with this church and it’s beliefs ... beliefs that they, now feel necessary to HIDE from the public. (?)

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Hannitized, you’re confusing visiting a church with being a member.  Again, let’s try to keep on track here; Obama is a prominent MEMBER of this church, and makes no apologies for it.  This kind of thing is part of the church’s official doctrine, coming out of the lead pastor.

Sorry, but this sticks.

watashiwa:

If you have been associated with someone for 20 years why can’t you remain friends, even if you disagree with them. I attended this fundamendalist church for several years. When the message got to extreme for me, I left. I still consider the pastor a friend. But, I will never return to his church.

Duh? That is what I said, you should go back and read all my comments again.

Ann:

Obama says he respects his preacher and is “proud” of their friendship, as well as his church, which proclaims: “We are an African people, and remain true to our native land, the mother continent.” In a 2006 interview with BeliefNet.com, Obama called Wright “one of the greatest preachers in the country.”

This “We are African people and remain true to our native land, the mother contenent” is quite troubling by itself. That is why I hate hyphenated Americans, they are not loyal to America first, only if it is convenient, otherwise they are blood suckers. If Obama is African, if he really believes that, then he has not assimilated into our society and that fact alone means he should be rejected by the voters.

The fact that you equate the two shows why you have no business commenting on this subject.

Hate mongering is still hate mongering! Black racists are just as bad as white racists. Lastly, you should be careful about telling anyone they have no right to speak on any subject just because you disagree with them.

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

todd - It matters what his beliefs about religion are, sure.

See what I did? This is why I’m so clever!

That’s not clever at all. It’s dumb.

You’re discounting what the pastor says in church because it’s not religious. It is all the more outrageous when one considers that you’re telling us this pastor saying ”God damn America” in church doesn’t matter because it somehow isn’t religious.

But keep on spinning. Keep on defending this racism. This kind of double standard is par for the course for the self-defined “liberals”. But please, keep on defending it! America needs to see this.

Watashiwa,

Do you have proof that Obama still attends this church?

Here’s a page from Barack’s campaign site referencing his church.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

And Hannitized, Obama has sat in Reverend Wright’s congregation for two decades.  He is a prominent member of Wright’s church.

There’s no getting around this.  You don’t get to sit in the audience and listen to someone say stuff like “God damn America” week after week and then say “Oh I don’t really agree with him, I just go to listen to him every Sunday.”

I’m sorry but again, this sticks.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

It’s fun watching you conservatives unravel like this. First Obama hates America for not wearing a flag pin, then his wife hates America for being proud of her husband… now we’re on to his pastor hating America. Talk about persistence! So when this blows over--when not even Limbaugh can get any traction on your bullshit--who are you gonna move to next? I heard Obama’s father wasn’t even born in America--he must hate our country too!!! I can’t wait to see what funny pictures you can come up with on him!

I actually have never said anything about Obama hating America, but the fact that the pastor of the church he’s heavily involved with thinks we brought 9/11 on ourselves, and says things like “God Damn America,” makes me not want to like Obama.

It’s the Obama campaign that’s unraveling, and not anyone else.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

todd continues his projection, It’s fun watching you conservatives unravel like this.

“Unravel” = pointing out the concept of, “you are known by the company you keep”.

First Obama hates America for not wearing a flag pin...

Who said that?

...then his wife hates America for being proud of her husband...

Who said that?

You’re lying.

...now we’re on to his pastor hating America.

Just “God damn America”. Get it straight.

Talk about persistence!

Persistence about what? You’re not even truthful about any of this. You’re just lying.

So when this blows over...

Probably will. “Liberals” have no standards. It’s different when you’re a Democrat. Republicans couldn’t get away with this kind of shit. On the other hand, it’s par for the course for Democrats.

...when not even Limbaugh can get any traction on your bullshit...

YOUR bullshit; the lies you have made up.

...who are you gonna move to next? I heard Obama’s father wasn’t even born in America--he must hate our country too!!! I can’t wait to see what funny pictures you can come up with on him!

This kind of diarrhea of the mouth shows us that you’re not only a dishonest partisan, but you’re also pretty dumb.

You don’t get to sit in the audience and listen to someone say stuff like “God damn America” week after week and then say “Oh I don’t really agree with him, I just go to listen to him every Sunday.”

Well, as a Catholic, I must say that everytime the issue of the so-called sin of contraception comes up, that’s almost word for word what goes through my mind…

“Black Value System,” a cult like code of non biblical ethics written by blacks for blacks. It preaches a radically exclusive theology that contradicts the tenets of Christianity.

I ran into this-type of exclusivity in a National Guard Church--one I had attended for over thirty years.  On the February service for “black history month”, one of the songs was the “black national anthem”.  Some seemed to discourage anyone but negroes from singing it.  That was the last time I attended “black history” services.  Christians are color blind.  They are and were not.  Some perverse perspective that I decided to divorce myself from.

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Communism is evil

Well, as a Catholic, I must say that everytime the issue of the so-called sin of contraception comes up, that’s almost word for word what goes through my mind…

Wait… are you saying it’s possible to go to church, and not be in complete agreement with your pastor’s political ideology? That can’t be right; I heard from an atheist who has almost no experience in church whatsoever that such a situation was impossible!

Wait… are you saying it’s possible to go to church, and not be in complete agreement with your pastor’s political ideology?

The spin to excuse this rank racism is astonishing, is it not?

Democrats have no shame.

you’re confusing visiting a church with being a member.  Again, let’s try to keep on track here;

I’m not confusing that at all.  I was a Jehovas witness for 7 years before I stopped going. I just disagreed with a lot of things that they taught.  So what does me going to that church for 7 years and listening to our brothers speak during that time say about me?  Nothing.

first point some 10’ faces slight bump dropping

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“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

You don’t get to sit in the audience and listen to someone say stuff like “God damn America” week after week and then say “Oh I don’t really agree with him, I just go to listen to him every Sunday.”

Did he say that week after week?

Heres the main point Rob.  When I go to church I realize a lot of people really, really need to believe that they need God to direct them in every sense of their lives.  I do not and I refuse to let religion dictate my life in all facets.  Yet any church I go to will tell me this is what I need to do.

My best friends were married and they believe God brought them together and that god made the rain stop for a short while for their wedding.  These are some of my closest friends.  I don’t believe that at all, but most of the church does.  This reality speaks nothing to how I feel or how I interact with the world around me, or how I think the world effects ME...period.

I believe Obama understands that some black people need to come to terms with the racism they experience and have experienced to survive peacefully in the world.  Stating that they don’t hate their enemies for being racist against them is not racism, its forgiveness.

You can feel how you like, but I think your conclusions are wrong.  Obama does not speak any of this nonsense and if you knew his family, you would know this is not how they think or thought. I know his sister, personally.  She is not racist and her hanai sister, who was my girlfriend is white and not a racist.  Obama’s white mother and my girlfriends mother were the best of friends.  These people are not racists.

The spin to excuse this rank racism is astonishing, is it not?

It just gets better!!!

It’s now “rank racism” to go to the same church as a racist. How much more shit can you throw to the wall before you just get tired?

It is rank racism to go to a church which presents race as one of the defining characteristics of their faith, and Obama’s church certainly does that.

My goodness, if McCain went to, say, Westboro Baptist in Wichita, you guys would be all over it.  Why can’t you get it through your heads that being a member of a church where the pastor spouts off such bigoted nonsense--and puts it in the church constitution--as does Pastor Wright also qualifies as the same thing?

.  Why can’t you get it through your heads that being a member of a church where the pastor spouts off such bigoted nonsense--and puts it in the church constitution--as does Pastor Wright also qualifies as the same thing?

Bubba,

Can you reference something that was bigoted and explain how it makes them racist?

It is rank racism to go to a church which presents race as one of the defining characteristics of their faith, and Obama’s church certainly does that.

It *certainly* does that? Well, I suppose you do have a fucking youtube video to base your thoughts on; what more do you need?  You’re “certain!”

Come on, Hannitized:  By now, you, me and every intelligent person on the planet knows what Rev. Wright has been preaching in his church. And while I can’t speak for you, I can tell you that I would not remain a member of a church where race was the defining tool for interpreting the Gospels.

You are often a persuasive contributor here, but not when your goal is to merely win an argument.

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"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

Lessee.....making the claim that all white people are privileged, but a black man with two Ivy League degrees is not, basing the church’s theology on one’s skin color, accusing the government (meaning white people) of supplying drugs to black people and then putting them in jail and committing genocide there....

...guys, if you can’t see this guy’s bigotry, you’re willfully blind.  If Obama hasn’t taken a hint, then I think we’d do well to think very carefully before giving him a promotion.

Easy there nutters…its 7 months till the election and you are already screechy and unhinged about what someone who is not Obama said…priceless

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“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

Mama said that you are judged by the people you associate with.  What we are seeing and hearing from Rev. Wright is deeply disturbing.  A discussion of the influence he might have on the mindset of a presidential candidate cannot be easily dismissed.  That would be like saying that the brain-washers had no influence over The Manchurian Candidate.

And while I can’t speak for you, I can tell you that I would not remain a member of a church where race was the defining tool for interpreting the Gospels.

The difference between my position and everyone elses is that I can understand YOUR position. 

Look, if you find that offensive, I can understand why you would leave.

At the same time, I can understand why someone would stay.  I understand this, becaues I find it offensive when my church condemns homosexuality, especially when the two owners of the company I work for are two oustanding citizens who are a gay couple.

I can understand why someone would stay because racism is a terrible thing to experience.  And in that community, it is quite prevalent, is it not?

I just think Obama was there because his wife dragged him there and I think he was trying to figure out the challenges of the black people in that community.

Barack Obama does not know what it is like to be pulled over for being in a white neighborhood.  The fact that the pastor says that shows how out of touch with Obama he really is.

I know this, because I know his sister. I know how he was raised.

Easy there nutters…its 7 months till the election and you are already screechy and unhinged about what someone who is not Obama said…priceless

Now that the video of Wright is going viral I am sure you aren’t quite as smug about this anymore.

He might not be Obama, but he sure isn’t helping Obama’s cause.

It punctures Obama’s claims to be a ‘post-racial’ healer.

Rip the mask off the face of Mr. HopeNchange and all you find is Al Sharpton.

He might not be Obama, but he sure isn’t helping Obama’s cause.

Do you say that because you are racist?  Or because you took a good long look at his record and how he grew up?

To get elected in Chicago, he had to identify with the voters and people who would get him elected.

As a Punahou grad, it’s very unlikely that he would identify with your average Chicago voter. 

I agree that this pastor isn’t helping Obama, and his dismissal of his comments should serve there purpose.

What is the reason you guys are so eager to make this stick and to turn Obama into a Sharpton?  Your racial hatred?

Why are you making this about race?

I didn’t know Jesus was black.  I assume Obama believes this as well?

I’m not the one making this about race, Hannitized.

Wright is.

I don’t think Obama is making his campaign about race, which is exactly why Wright is becoming such a problem for him.

Obama was supposed to be beyond all this crap, but then we find out that the man who performed his wedding ceremony, the one who lent Obama the title ‘Audacity of Hope’ and Obama’s self-proclaimed mentor is just another race-hustling jerk.

I thought Obama’s campaign was unique for not focusing on race.

Do you say that because you are racist?

Uh, what?

I am racist for pointing out someone else is racist?

Does.
Not.
Compute.

I agree that this pastor isn’t helping Obama, and his dismissal of his comments should serve there purpose.

H,

Wishful thinking.  Wright’s race-baiting is one thing, and Obama’s tepid disavowal would probably suffice for that.  But Wright’s “God Damn America” will not go away so quickly or quietly.  Without a substantial percentage of people who will find that particular phrase unconscionably and unpardonably over-the-top, Barack Obama may not get his party’s nomination, and will certainly not win the general election in November.

And the Democrats’ “Super Delegates”, nearly all of whom are far more experienced at major league political warfare than is Obama, know this all too well.

Observing that the temperature in the Grand Salon of the Titanic has dropped a few degrees is no way to deal with the iceberg outside.

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“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

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