Obama Yearns For Things Between Muslims And Americans To Be Like They Were “20 Or 30 Years Ago”

Obama’s ignorance of history comes back to bite him yet again. It turns out that 20 or 30 years ago the Muslim world was busy attacking US embassies, among other things.

“America was not born as a colonial power, and that the same respect and partnership that America had with the Muslim world as recently as 20 or 30 years ago, there’s no reason why we can’t restore that. And that I think is going to be an important task.”
So said our new president in his interview Tuesday with Al Arabiya, the Arabic-language satellite news channel. At first the words washed over me. Then I did some simple math. Let’s see… 20 or 30 years ago… that would be 1989 or 1979.
What was happening in relations between America and the Muslim world back then? Not relying on memory alone, I consulted Bernard Grun’s reference book, The Timetables of History.
It turns out that in 1989 U.S. fighters shot down two Libyan jets over the Gulf of Sidra. The last Soviet troops left Afghanistan, creating a vacuum that would eventually be filled by the Taliban. Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie’s death for “blasphemy.” Hundreds died in Lebanon’s long-running civil war while Hezbollah militants were torturing to death U.S. Marine Colonel William “Rich” Higgins, who had been kidnapped the previous year while serving as a UN peacekeeper in Lebanon.
And 1979? That was an even darker year-in many ways a turning point for the worse in the Middle East. That was, after all, the year that the shah of Iran was overthrown. He was replaced by the Ayatollah Khomeini, who launched a war against the West that is still unfolding. One of the first actions of this long struggle was the seizure of the US Embassy in Tehran and all of its personnel as hostages. The same year saw the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, which led to the growth of the mujahideen, some of whom would later morph into Al Qaeda and the Taliban. This was also the year that Islamic militants temporarily seized control of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, an event that drove the Saudi royal family to become ever more fundamentalist.
In other news in 1979, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the former prime minister of Pakistan, was hanged by General Zia al-Hak, inaugurating a long period when Pakistan would be under the effective control of the army in alliance with Islamic militants. That year mobs also attacked U.S. embassies throughout the Muslim world from Kabul and Islamabad to Tripoli. The one bright spot in 1979 was the signing of the Camp David Accord between the US, Egypt, and Israel, which did not, unfortunately, auger a “new” Middle East as many optimists hoped.

Typical Obama. Pretty sounding words, not a lot of substance.

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  • http://Array A Citizen

    However, not all Muslims subscribe to it. We need to make the effort to woo those oppose radical Islam.

    Like the “infidels,” those who do not believe will also be killed off.

  • pparets

    A Citizen: Islamic jihad is real, and a spreading menace.

    However, not all Muslims subscribe to it. We need to make the effort to woo those oppose radical Islam.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Man Train – What do we do about the American Jihadists found on this Reich-Wing echo-chamber? The American educational system has obviously failed these poor rubes…

    Well,…Rob said that we should let the likes of you, DINO, and Hannitized spew your nonsense for us all to see. We “do” nothing about you.

  • A Citizen

    It doesn’t matter how we appease them, they have their own agenda.

    The following is adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:
    Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.
    Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.
    Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called ‘religious rights.’
    When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).
    As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:
    United States — Muslim 1.0%
    Australia — Muslim 1.5%
    Canada — Muslim 1.9%
    China — Muslim 1%-2%
    Italy — Muslim 1.5%
    Norway — Muslim 1.8%
    At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:
    Denmark — Muslim 2%
    Germany — Muslim 3.7%
    United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
    Spain — Muslim 4%
    Thailand — Muslim 4.6%
    From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
    They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. (United States ).
    France — Muslim 8%
    Philippines — Muslim 5%
    Sweden — Muslim 5%
    Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
    The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
    Trinidad &Tobago; — Muslim 5.8%
    At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
    When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris –car-burnings) . Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam – Mohammed cartoons).
    Guyana — Muslim 10%
    India — Muslim 13.4%
    Israel — Muslim 16%
    Kenya — Muslim 10%
    Russia — Muslim 10-15%
    After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:

    Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%
    At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:
    Bosnia — Muslim 40%
    Chad — Muslim 53.1%
    Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%
    From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:
    Albania — Muslim 70%
    Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
    Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
    Sudan — Muslim 70%
    After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:
    Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
    Egypt — Muslim 90%
    Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
    Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
    Iran — Muslim 98%
    Iraq — Muslim 97%
    Jordan — Muslim 92%
    Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
    Pakistan — Muslim 97%
    Palestine — Muslim 99%
    Syria — Muslim 90%
    Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
    Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
    United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%
    100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace — there’s supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:
    Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
    Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
    Somalia — Muslim 100%
    Yemen — Muslim 99.9%
    Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.
    ‘Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. — Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’
    It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would indicate.
    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/muslim-behavior-with-population-increase/

  • 2Hotel9

    Bear, I was going to point that little gem out and you beat me to it. Socialist/Leftist always operate by using others as their stalking horses. And once in power their first targets are all those who supported them in their “struggle”.

    Look at the aftermath of every single Socialist/Leftist “revolution”, mass murders, mass destruction, starvation, rape, mutilation. That is what dinothefakehomo and sanni want for America.

  • Hannitized

    BO,

    1. Got a citation for all that tedious drivel you’ve cut and pasted?

    Yes, it was the Christian Science Monitor. I trust you can accept them as a reliable source? Or is it because they provide facts against the hateful and non-constructive arguments that are being made in this post, that will cause you to continue to dismiss this important data as “drivel”.

    Show me why I should take you seriously as a reasonable critic. Because right now you are only giving me reason to dismiss you all together.

    This is a new time Bat. It is you that have to support your arguments, I merely need to defend Obama. And I believe I have done so adequately.

  • http://sillytroll.com/ Man Train

    robert108 said,

    I want to murderous jihadists to hate and fear us

    Yes, lets help them gain new recruits! The more the Middle-East hates and fears us the more bombs we get to drop! Fantastic! Win-win!

    What do we do about the American Jihadists found on this Reich-Wing echo-chamber? The American educational system has obviously failed these poor rubes…

  • Hungry Bear

    What I am suggesting is that the people who were not radical have grown to be angry and lest trustful of the US. Additionally they have grown less confident in our ability and sincerity to bring about democracy.

    Those words could have been used to describe the militia movement of the early 1990s. They could also be used to describe the attitudes of the KKK. I don’t think Hannitized would advocate that Washington be sensitive to either the militias or the KKK. In fact, I’m sure Hannitized would argue the opposite.

    Those who hate America and Israel in the Middle East do so because they have been taught to believe in a supremist pilosophy, every bit as radical as the KKK’s agenda.

  • Hannitized

    And while I am willing to wait and see whether President Obama’s initiative on Al Arabia will produce any meaningful results, I am troubled [but not surprised] that Ahmadidijan’s immediate response was to demand an apology from the United States.

    I have to say I respect your open mind and fair approach to weighing facts, as well as observing actions and interpreting them as you see it.

    Can you link me to the Ahmadinijad remark. I haven’t heard about that on the news, or seen it posted here. That does sound troubling.

    And I will try my best PP to allow criticism where it is due. I will try. You deserve that honesty.

  • 2Hotel9

    As soon as Muslims bring an end to murdering their children and women in the name of their “god” I will give a fuck what they think of me.

  • Hannitized

    BatOne,

    2. Are any of those Arab countries covered by the Zogby and Gallup polls anywhere near as free and democratic as Israel?

    I think it is good for Zogby to poll the areas where America has enjoyed good relations, that have deteriorated in 20-30 years.

    It sort of puts Obama’s comments in perspective. No?

    4. How come those surveys you cite didn’t include the opinions of any Iraqi citizens?

    Probably because the Iraqi’s never hated America to start with, thus proving they were not our enemies, nor were they the ones responsible for 9/11, or deserve the wrath of 9/11.

    Besides, not sure the poll responses that would come out of Iraq would be supporting your conclusion.

  • sayanything-2407

    I don’t think he should be emphasizing his ears like that in the pricture….

    [chuckles]

  • Bat One

    The point isn’t to argue what you believe can be achieved, or not, in the ME. It is too much of a subjective topic for you to be pinned back with hard facts, such as I have provided here. I will not accept your challenge to remain wallowing in the mire. Instead, I will focus on things that can be discussed with certainty, such as those pesky facts.

    Facts??? What facts have you presented here? All you shown us is the opinions of others, the filtered perceptions of those who are apparently quite content to voice their support for the destruction of a loyal US ally and the only functional liberal democracy in the entire Middle East. Those Arabs selectively polled by Zogby and Gallup whose opinions you cite as raison d’etre for a pronounced change in US policy are the very ones who cheered the events of 9-11-01. They are the same ones whose own treatment of minorities within their borders, including Palestinian Arabs, is far worse than the treatment by the Israelis of their minority population. So, please, tell me again why the opinions of the polled Arabs are so much more worthy of consideration.

  • eneils Bailey

    Hannitized,

    You are a phony and freaking coward.
    The balls hanging between your legs would not make the horniest whore in the world interested in you, not even for money.

    You are are a stunted bitch-baby.

  • A Citizen

    Does this mean we have to put the American hostages back in the Iranian prisons?

  • http://manoffireandlight.blog.co.uk/ ManofFireandLight

    The 1979 Iranian revolution did not start as an Islamic one, but was high-jacked by the fundamentalists. Initially, it was a revolution by free thinking liberal people, they were just unable to hold on to the reins of power within the vacuum left by the exiled Shah. It was the Islamists who were best able to fill the void (and kill most of their detractors).

  • bill-tb

    Obama just thinks you are stupid, like his voters, and doesn’t think anyone notices it’s all jive talk.

    Let’s see, when was the Marine Barracks blown up?

    Odummer is sure living up to his 57 state African heritage isn’t he.

  • http://dougeefargo.blogspot.com/ dougee

    Yeah! We need to nuke everybody else in the world so you cons can feel safe again!

    Now who has a been nuked by the order of a conservative? What a moron!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    Yeah! We need to nuke everybody else in the world so you cons can feel safe again!

    What a bunch of savage rubes. Go back a little farther in history and see the way we treated that region.

    But I bet you think poor little America is just getting picked on again. Just like how the media picks on the cons. Victimhood reigns.

  • pparets

    If we can restore the confidence of the Muslim intelligencia and the – admittedly – small middle class in the Middle East, that could be of enormous help in fighting the Islamic radicals… IF we can, and at what cost?

    There’s the rub.

  • welder4

    Maybe we should go all the way back to the war of 1815 what was called the war of 1812 and then we could have peace just like today, with the Islamic pirates back at their dirty deeds of raping the women and enslaving the white males that they took off of our ships . we tried to appease them but it just got worse and finally when we had amassed a good navy we went in and stopped them. sounds like they never quit, just re-arm and get us later .

  • SigFan

    Can anyone point to a period of history where Muslim and Western civilizations were in peaceful coexistence? Since it’s inception early in the seventh century, Islam has tried (and been repulsed) several times to conquer the infidels (remember that the word Islam means submission). Unless you are a student of revisionist history, this is an indisputable fact. Generally, after taking a beating, they will retreat for a time, re-gaining strength until they are ready for the next attempt. The lull periods may be long or short, depending on how severely beaten they were, but they keep coming back.

    And no Dino – we don’t need to nuke everybody else, just those who wish to do it to us (preferably before they do). Obama and the Islamist apologists may succeed in ushering in a lull in hostility between them and us, but the Islamists will never abandon their dreams of world domination because their religion commands them to subjugate the infidel and destroy the Jew. Quiet for ten years, one hundred years, whatever, but inevitably the threat will reappear.

    In my opinion, it’s much better to head off a problem than put it off. Sometimes that means you’re going to piss off some people, but that is an unfortunate fact of life.

  • Hannitized

    I understand that y’all need to hate, but if you loved this country, perhaps you could look a bit farther than your nose and ask yourself, what exactly was different 20-30 years ago?

    Well, if you did a simple Google search, we can identify many things that have changed over the years.

    I for one, would consider it a VAST IMPROVEMENT if we could merely return feelings back to how they were 20-30 years ago. It’s is probably a lot more realistic to choose that time frame as the mind set of everyday Muslims hasn’t changed due to culture changing as dramatically as it has in say….100 years.

    FACTS:

    Two new polls, conducted separately in 2005 and 2006, show that anti-American feeling in Arab nations is at an all-time high.

    The surveys, carried out by Zogby International and the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies, show that it’s not just that feelings are running against the US, it’s that Arabs and Muslims are “giving up on [the US] — on our ability to make good decisions, to solve problems, to play the role of honest broker.”

    David Ignatius, of The Washington Post, writes that as bad as you think it may be from watching TV, “it’s actually worse.” In his column, Mr. Ignatius refers to a poll presented by Shibley Telhami — a University of Maryland professor and a fellow of the Saban Center at the Brookings Institution — at a conference on America’s relations with the Muslim world held in Doha, Qatar this past weekend. The survey, by Zogby International, was done in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

    in these six “friendly” countries, only 12 percent of those surveyed expressed favorable attitudes toward the United States. America’s leaders have surpassed Israel’s as objects of anger. Asked which foreign leader they disliked most, 38 percent named George Bush; Ariel Sharon was a distant second at 11 percent; and Ehud Olmert was third with 7 percent.

    The poll data show a deep suspicion of American motives: 65 percent of those surveyed said they didn’t think democracy was a real US objective in the Middle East. Asked to name two countries that had the most freedom and democracy, only 14 percent said America, putting it far behind France and Germany.

    The Gulf Times of Qatar reports that 84 percent of those surveyed in the Zogby poll believe that the war in Iraq has created more, not fewer, terrorists, while 86 percent believe that there has been “less peace” in the region since the removal of Saddam Hussein.

    The Cybercast News Service reports that Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa told the conference that most Arabs do not hate the United States but oppose its double standards.

    [quote]“Muslims cannot accept the US policy of supporting Israel and its occupation of Arab and Muslim territories,” he said, adding that Arabs could also not understand Washington’s opposition to Iran’s nuclear program while Israel’s was ignored.

    Reuters reports that the good news in the report is that 67 percent of those surveyed said that the US could substantially repair its image if it brokered peace in the region.

    That is good news. Because it shows Muslims have HOPE that there could be CHANGE and that we could restore our image and damage caused by the last presidency.

    But, you know….continue to ignore the reality on the ground and continue to hate the American president when he says things that are accurately reflecting ideas that are good.

  • Hungry Bear

    Is he interpreting the new President’s overture as a sign of weakness, a lack of resolve?

    How did Kruschev view Kennedy during their summit?

  • http://www.valleydeals.com/cgi-bin/board2/YaBB.pl Kevin

    Thirty years ago; the good old days of malaise!

  • eneils Bailey

    Hannitized,

    Get back to me..
    Whip me..
    Beat me..
    I am bending over..
    The drawers are down..
    Can’t do it..
    Can you???
    You are a fool..
    You are a stupid asshole……

    Stupidity is a momentary temporary brain inclusion…
    Brain-farts can last forever.

  • eneils Bailey

    Apparently some youngsters here, so full of misdirected hate, they haven’t any knowledge of what Communism is. For starters, you elected a communist, yes the one is a Communist.

    I think you have nailed down one of the people who incessantly is making comments here.

  • pparets

    Hannitized: I have no problem with the Zogby poll results that you posted from the Christian Science Monitor, although a link should have been included. You know that.

    And while I am willing to wait and see whether President Obama’s initiative on Al Arabia will produce any meaningful results, I am troubled [but not surprised] that Ahmadidijan’s immediate response was to demand an apology from the United States.

    Is he interpreting the new President’s overture as a sign of weakness, a lack of resolve? We shall see.

  • erick1740

    Tell the israeli athletes at the munich olympics in 1972 how peace loving the arabs were..our new prez is a moron

  • sayanything-4625

    The American educational system has obviously failed these poor rubes…

    The educational system is Union and Democrat controlled…

    Muslims do not now or have they ever needed help to hate infidels. They invaded have been at war with infidels since they were founded. They push all the way to Spain before the West realized that they needed to do something. Its happening again.

  • Hungry Bear

    The 1979 Iranian revolution did not start as an Islamic one, but was high-jacked by the fundamentalists. Initially, it was a revolution by free thinking liberal people, they were just unable to hold on to the reins of power within the vacuum left by the exiled Shah. It was the Islamists who were best able to fill the void (and kill most of their detractors).

    This is very similar to how authoritarian socialists came to power in Russia and Cuba. The existing regime is weakened by the pro-liberty forces. But in the conflict, the pro-liberty forces are also weakened. The auhoritarian socialists who avoided most of the direct fighting are able to then defeat the pro-liberty forces, and instill a totalitarian government.

    That’s how Lenin did it.

    That’s how Fidel did it.

  • Bat One

    Yessir, by all means lets be more tolerant, understanding and accommodating to the world’s Muslims. Both the “intelligensia” such as this well educated Egyptian,

    A woman arrested at the Cairo airport because her identity card described her as a Christian has been threatened for her faith by the judge in her case, according to a new report…

    Makkar’s lawyer, Nadia Tawfiq, reported that Judge Abdelaa Hashem questioned Makkar closely about her Christian faith during a courtroom hearing.

    Tawfiq told Compass Direct “the judge then said, ‘I want to talk with Martha alone,’ so we all left the room, and he said to her, ‘Nobody changes from Muslim to Christian — you are a Muslim.’

    “And she said, ‘No, I am a Christian.’ He told her, ‘If I had a knife now, I would kill you,’” the lawyer said.

    and those not so effete and nuanced, such as these,

    Islamic militants who are on Washington’s list of terror groups have cut off the hand of a man convicted of stealing fishing nets, officials said Wednesday.

    The Islamic group, al-Shabab, is imposing a strict form of Islam with punishments including lashings and stonings that have drawn fear and trepidation in this Muslim country. In one case, the group stoned a 13-year-old girl to death for adultery even though her parents said she was a rape victim.

    I’m still waiting for a modest number of those “well-educated Muslims” Zogby interviewed to publicly rebuke their more barbarous, radical brethren, and the commands of their faith to subjugate the rest of humankind. Zogby never got around to asking abou that.

  • bill-tb

    Apparently some youngsters here, so full of misdirected hate, they haven’t any knowledge ot what Communism is. For starters, you elected a communist, yes the one is a Communist.

    I suggest a brief look at history of the Soviet Union, a failed state and a thoroughly debunked ideology — The command and control economy being the center. For an example of command and control economics, read the Obama-Pelosi ‘Stimulus Bill’.

    And while you are at it, look up the Wiemar Republic in the 1932-33 time frame.

    See what you are missing. Education, if you can handle it, is your friend.

  • eneils Bailey

    anti-American feeling in Arab nations is at an all-time high.

    What me worry, goat-fuckers, camel drivers, and and people that spent twelve years in school exalting the virtues of tenth century barbarians and learning how to blow up innocent civilians could make me give a tiny shit about their opinion.

    Arabs and Muslims are “giving up on [the US] — on our ability to make good decisions, to solve problems, to play the role of honest broker.”

    Yeah, maybe we should all go to Yemen, Pakistan, or Iran and attend seminars on morals, ethics, and decision-making.

    I think I’ll stay in the good ole USA and live with all the deficiencies we have as a society.

    I don’t know if you realize it yet, your man, Obama was elected President. All of this was suppose to change.

  • eneils Bailey

    Hannitized,

    Come on, get in the game.
    You like to splash your cheap shit all over the blog when no one responses.

    Come on, we will respond..
    Spew your cheap shit…
    Bend over…No…you are one ugly bitch…

  • eneils Bailey

    Come on, Hannitized,

    Get your sorry ass back out here.

    You can’t compete with ideas… putting forth canned and copied insults reveals you for the fool that you are.

    You are an insult to human logic, reasoning, and things that have made this country great.

    You probably sit around at night, whacking off to pictures of Obama, licking the cum off your fist, and then declaring how whacked out the rest of the world is.;

    Get a life, you dick-head.

  • 2Hotel9

    “If we can restore the confidence of the Muslim intelligencia and the – admittedly – small middle class in the Middle East, that could be of enormous help in fighting the Islamic radicals… IF we can, and at what cost?

    There’s the rub.”

    The problem with this is that “Muslim Intelligentsia” will always submit to the majority who follow the Qur’an. As soon as they stand against the mullahs and Fundamentalist Muslim majority they are targeted and crushed.

  • Bat One

    …it was the Christian Science Monitor. I trust you can accept them as a reliable source?

    Reliably leftwing, yes. Has been since well before you were born.

    Show me why I should take you seriously as a reasonable critic.

    Why? A truly objective individual will judge each of us on the veracity and rationality of what we say. If you can’t manage that, its your problem not mine. I’m unlikely to lose any sleep over your opinion in any case.

    Still, I notice that, while hitting all the other points (sort of), you neglected to explain why we should

    …concern ourselves with the opinions of hardline autocrats at the expense of liberal democrats who have been our long time allies and who believe in free market capitalism and individual liberty and responsibility?

    Israel is, of course, the only free market, pluralistic, liberal democracy in the Middle East. And the Left is clearly determined to oppose the effort to establish another one in Iran. So maybe that means that means that Democrats really don’t have all that much use for democracy despite the prattle to the contrary, and have an innate preference for autocracy and personality cults instead? It would sure explain the Left’s policy prescriptions.

  • docdave

    No way about it, devout muslims are fanatics. Reasoning with them is as possible as reasoning with devout leftists and other insane people.

  • sayanything-4625

    Why did the Muslims hate us in 1978-79? We had Carter “brokering peace” at Camp David. Why did they hate us? Why did they hate us in 1801 when they demanded we pay them tribute?

  • Hawk

    You mistake the Muslim World for Iran. It is much larger and we were once respected in most of it.

  • Hannitized

    The article goes on to talk about the mange changes that occurred in 20-30 years in the minds of everyday Muslims.

    1. America is less trusted that it truly wants to install democracy.

    2. America is believed to be responsible for creating more terrorism, not less.

    3. America is believed to have double standards, now.

    4. America is not relied on that it can deliver a peace broker while it is occupying Muslim countries.

    5. America can restore it’s image if it is able to broker peace.

    6. Muslims believe they have more in common with American values over GB.

    7. More educated Muslims are being radicalized after the War on Terror started.

    Meanwhile, The Times of London reports that the largest survey of Muslims ever conducted shows that the war on terror has radicalized even well-educated Muslims to unprecedented levels.

    Gallup’s Centre for Muslim Studies in New York carried out surveys of 10,000 Muslims in ten predominantly Muslim countries. One finding was that the wealthier and better-educated the Muslim was, the more likely he was to be radicalized.

    The poll also found that residents of Muslim countries share more in common with the United States in terms of spiritual and family values than they do those in with European countries.

    A large number of Muslims supported the Western ideal of democratic government. Fifty per cent of radicals supported democracy, compared with 35 per cent of moderates.

    Religion was found to have little to do with radicalization or antipathy towards Western culture. Muslims were condemnatory of promiscuity and a sense of moral decay. What they admired most was liberty, its democratic system, technology and freedom of speech.

    The poll’s researchers reported that the idea in the West that all Arab or Muslim radicals are “religious fundamentalists or the poor and hopeless” is fundamentally wrong.

    “They often charge that religious fervour triggers radical and violent views,” said John Esposito, a religion professor, and Dalia Mogahed, Gallup’s Muslim studies director, in one analysis. “But the data say otherwise. There is no significant difference in religiosity between moderates and radicals. In fact, radicals are no more likely to attend religious services regularly than are moderates.”

    Mr. Esposito and Ms. Mogahed presented some of their findings in the November 2006 issue of Foreign Policy. In it they argue that if the West wants to reach the extremists and empower the Muslim moderates, “it must first recognize who it’s up against.”

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0222/p99s01-duts.html

    I for one understand what Obama has said, as there is a lot of truth to his words.

    If you choose to look for the good in our president, instead of looking for stupidity, you will find what you look for at the expense of progress for our country.

    Why do you hate this country so much that you would behave so?

  • 2Hotel9

    What alternate reality is this idiot living in?

  • Bat One

    I don’t think he should be emphasizing his ears like that in the pricture….

    [chuckles]

    A black Alfred E. Neuman? Who said there’s nothing laughable about Barack Obama? That there’s funny… I don’t care who ya are!!!

  • sayanything-4625

    whatever Hanni,

    I just pointed out that Carter did everything that Obama claims he is going to do to “rebuild” our image and it did nothing to help him. In 1801 we did nothing to the muslims and they still demanded tribute. Do you think that it might not be us that is causing all the problems? Pray tell me what Indonesia is doing to the muslims that they are bombing them? Or the Philipines? Or any number of other places?

  • Hannitized

    Reliably leftwing, yes. Has been since well before you were born.

    Well I was glad I was able to get you narrowly focused on the deliverer of the message that was created by Zogby.

    It makes it easier for me to conclude that you have no interest in learning any data that doesn’t fit with your narrow perspective of the world and how it affects the rest of us.

    Instead, you rather dismiss anything as “tedious”.

    Personally, I don’t care if you want to live your life in a conservative cocoon. But for the sake of others it is good to produce hard data that shows relations have considerably worsened over the last 20-30 years.

    The point isn’t to argue what you believe can be achieved, or not, in the ME. It is too much of a subjective topic for you to be pinned back with hard facts, such as I have provided here. I will not accept your challenge to remain wallowing in the mire. Instead, I will focus on things that can be discussed with certainty, such as those pesky facts.

    If you want to dismiss Zogby for his ethnicity, be my guest. It only further solidifies you should not be taken seriously when a serious topic comes up for discussion.

    For the rest of the people, who are truly curious what Obama was meaning when he made his remark. I think it is fair to say he had some legs to stand on.

    Why? A truly objective individual will judge each of us on the veracity and rationality of what we say.

    I did. You asked what countries were included in the poll, apparently before you bothered to read my comment. Then you tried to dismiss Zogby because of his ethnicity.

    You have created reason to assume you haven’t any.

    Thanks for your time.

  • Hannitized

    I just pointed out that Carter did everything that Obama claims he is going to do to “rebuild” our image and it did nothing to help him. In 1801 we did nothing to the muslims and they still demanded tribute. Do you think that it might not be us that is causing all the problems? Pray tell me what Indonesia is doing to the muslims that they are bombing them? Or the Philipines? Or any number of other places?

    First, I think you are measuring two separate things.

    You seem to be making the conclusion that Obama can make the radicals calm. Nobody ever made that claim.

    What I am suggesting is that the people who were not radical have grown to be angry and lest trustful of the US. Additionally they have grown less confident in our ability and sincerity to bring about democracy. This is the type of change that has occurred over the decades.

    It can be attributed to all presidents, some more than others as the poll demonstrates. I think we can make improvements and restore credibility and trust….yes, I believe that.

    But like you, I am not sure we can save all Muslims from hating us. Some never did and never will. But there are many who are still worth trying to win over.

    That is all.

  • Hannitized

    Greg,

    There is a difference between a select group of radicals and mainstream Muslim citizens. Check the poll results I have provided.

    Details such as increase in American confidence and intent has worsened with the educated and major populations, where traditionally we have enjoyed something different.

    Nobody ever said that at one point in time everyone in the ME loved us.

  • eneils Bailey

    Thirty years ago; the good old days of malaise!

    Transport the world to the future; say today, what has changed?
    Nothing much, The Mussie’s still hate and want to kill us.
    We have liberal politicians that keep insisting that it is the USA’s fault, and he will make them like us, just like ole Peanut Carter of the late seventies.

    They will like us when we are dead and gone, it’s a basic tenet of their culture. You could say it is not endorsed by their religion; but from what I have seen, it is not even slightly discouraged.

    Time passes; the hatred persists.

  • eneils Bailey

    Hannitized,

    Go down to the local book store, and buy “Liberal Idiots for Dummies.”

    When you pick it up and take it off the shelf, you should feel this tingling feeling, running up and down your leg, kinda like the last drug test you took or that thrill you felt while watching Chris Matthews.

    You are one extra-ordinarily stupid son-of-bitch, a person that would make the smell of rotten dog shit smell like roses.

    Sniff Dis…

  • pparets
  • pparets

    Bat One makes a very compelling arguement.

    Those Arabs selectively polled by Zogby and Gallup whose opinions you cite as raison d’etre for a pronounced change in US policy are the very ones who cheered the events of 9-11-01. They are the same ones whose own treatment of minorities within their borders, including Palestinian Arabs, is far worse than the treatment by the Israelis of their minority population.

  • Hannitized

    I don’t know if you realize it yet, your man, Obama was elected President. All of this was suppose to change.

    In 10 days??????

    It will probably take twice as long to repair the damage Bush I and II have done.

  • robert108

    I want to murderous jihadists to hate and fear us; Obambi certainly will never accomplish that; he’s not man enough.
    They should know that if they fuck with us, we will kill them.

  • Bat One

    H,

    1. Got a citation for all that tedious drivel you’ve cut and pasted?

    2. Are any of those Arab countries covered by the Zogby and Gallup polls anywhere near as free and democratic as Israel? If not, why should we concern ourselves with the opinions of hardline autocrats at the expense of liberal democrats who have been our long time allies and who believe in free market capitalism and individual liberty and responsibility?

    3. Zogby? Of Lebanese descent, isn’t he?

    4. How come those surveys you cite didn’t include the opinions of any Iraqi citizens?

  • bustoff

    It turns out that 20 or 30 years ago the Muslim world was busy attacking US embassies, among other things.

    I fear that is exactly the Muslim world Obama would like us to return to.

  • http://suitepotato.blogspot.com/ sayanything-4808

    That’s right Dino, keep ignoring reality.

    Here’s a way to test your theory. Move to Tehran. Go over there and announce you’re gay and want to move to a more tolerant society that will love you and you believe that is Iran.

    They’ll hang you for homosexuality within the week.

    These are people under the influence of self-righteous intolerance for everything not like them. No different than the Nazis, no different from the Communists, no different than you really with your bluster and vitriol tossed freely about.

    They’d see you and everyone like you dead in a New York minute and you’re telling us that the problem is the US and not Islamic Supremacism? You demonstrate more and more how little you know.

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