Say Anything Blog

“eerie echoes”

That’s what you get when words resonate through empty spaces!

Shrugging off the mindless, baseless attacks of Liberal hyenas and jackals since 2007

”(Proof) You’re, as we say in Hawaii, No Ka Oi!”

-unsolicited testimonial

Obama Hussein Barack needs to quit speaking for me. He doesn’t know what I think. In fact, he happens to be consistently wrong in his estimation of my views. It’s all quite condescending and rude and unbecoming of any serious Presidential contender.

We won’t be going to “war with Iran”. We will be striking the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, which was recently recognized as a terrorist organization. This recognition set the legal framework for the attack. Furthermore, Germany’s Angela Merkel has declared that her country will no longer support further sanctions against Tehran. They’re realizing that sanctions are a futile effort that will do nothing to stop Mahmoud Ahmadinejad from his nuclear ambitions.

Diplomacy has failed (any surprise there?) Make no mistake - Iran will not have a nuclear weapon. Military strikes are imminent.

(Obama, pay attention idiot): Loud and clear from this American: This administration does have my support and they already have our authorization.

Maybe Obama just wants a fellow Muslim to have a nuclear bomb. I wouldn’t put it past the two-faced liar. In any regard, his solution is to sit back and let the emerging Muslim Hitler arm himself with a nuclear weapon. What side is Obama really on?

Barry O would rather invade one of our allies.

No Free Lunch

Apparently Admiral Fallon also thinks that Bush wants to wage war on Iran.

Apparently Admiral Fallon also thinks that Bush wants to wage war on Iran.

Two things: First, Iran is already “waging war” on us, so the best we can do is to retaliate.  Duh.

Second, it makes sense to fight those who seek to destroy us and our way of life, doesn’t it?

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

I think it is a riot listening to you guys rant about Obama, even going so far as calling him an idiot. The guy could pull a rope-a-dope on your brains that would leave you dizzy.

Diplomacy has failed? When have we tried diplomacy in earnest with Iran? It seems to be doing pretty well with another country with a whacko leader, N. Korea.

And, for the record, he is not a Muslim…you idiots are the same jokers who tried to tie him to terrorism because he attended a school in Indonesia. He happens to be a Christian, from the United Church of Christ. Do your homework, moron.

Two-faced liar? No, this administration won that award a long time ago. WMD? Al Qaeda Connection? Halliburton? Evesdropping programs?

Lastly, and it tires me to have to explain these sort of things to you bone heads, but Obama doesn’t have a record of killing puppies…he never has. you analogy is assenine. Dubya, however, has shown quite a passion for launching unnecessary wars when he doesn’t know what else to do…which is 99% of the time.

Guess what? He’s doing it again.

Apparently Admiral Fallon also thinks that Bush wants to wage war on Iran.

Of course, R108 is correct.  The mullahs of Iran have been at war with the US ever since Jimmy Carter made a point of demonstrating his own theory of feckless leadership and the diminution of American power and influence.  (In Carter’s case, that should be “dhimmi-nution” I believe.)

Which brings up the point that clearly somebody SHOULD be discussing Iran and the threat posed by a nuclear-armed terrorist state i the Middle East and Persian Gulf region.

Admiral Fallon is on record as supporting a policy of maintaining the status quo, a ridiculously dangerous position for someone with his education and experience.  Perhaps you support that notion as well.  Most cognitively challenged Democrats do.  Any thoughts on how to deal with the threat of Iran?  Or is your head more comfortable where it is, buried in the sand?

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

I think it is a riot listening to you guys rant about Obama

You’re going to try to outrant us, aren’t you?

He happens to be a Christian, from the United Church of Christ. Do your homework, moron.

Do yours, idiot.  That church happens to be one of the most rascist churchs in America believing that ‘black is beautiful and everybody else sucks.

Lastly, and it tires me to have to explain these sort of things to you bone head

You’re so caught up with yourself that you wouldn’t recognized the truth if it bit you.  Obama is slick I’ll grant you that and obviously gullible you has fallen for his schtick hook,line and sinker.

One of the most important talents for success in politics is the ability to make utter nonsense sound not only plausible but inspiring. Barack Obama has that talent. We will be lucky if we escape the catastrophes into which other countries have been led by leaders with that same charismatic talent.
-Thomas Sowell

Bat: As you point out, lefties generally suffer from cerebral hemorrhoids.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

“George Bush and Dick Cheney must hear loud and clear from the American people and the Congress: You do not have our support, and you do not have our authorization, to launch another war,” he said.

We need to cross the border of sovereign nation Pakistan that is our ally instead.  Isn’t that his position?

DocDave,

I happen to be a member of Old First United Church of Christ (Philadelphia). I’m white and we are one of the most diverse congregation you will ever find. Why not check out our website? I’d like to see how mixed the churches are in your glorious N.Dakota.

By the way, Black is beautiful. So is White, Red, Yellow, Tan and every other color in the human race. I’d like to see the quote from the UCC about everyone else sucks…can you find that for me?

No, sir, “slick” is the neocons who have managed to use their own fear tactics to remain in power. I believe that is called terrorism. Gullible are the lemmings who follow them into another decade of hopelessness, trumpeting the mantra that any kind of change is dangerous.

Oh, and another example of doing your homework:

likwidshoe:

His name is Barack Hussein Obama, not the other way around.

Obama attended a Muslim school in Indonesia and acknowledges being raised and educated as a Muslim during that time.  He claims he attended a simple Islamic school, not a Madrassa.  His religion now is not at issue.  And it was not us that tried to tie him to an Islamic school in Indonesia, it was the Clinton campaign.  And both of them indignantly called it a “Right Wing Hit Job” despite being orchestrated by the Clintons.  Not that Hillary would pull a dirty political trick or anything.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/

Insight Magazine, which is owned by the same company as The Washington Times, reported on its Web site last week that associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, had unearthed information the Illinois Democrat and likely presidential candidate attended a Muslim religious school known for teaching the most fundamentalist form of Islam.

Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa. (Watch video of Obama’s school )

Insight attributed the information in its article to an unnamed source, who said it was discovered by “researchers connected to Senator Clinton.” A spokesman for Clinton, who is also weighing a White House bid, denied that the campaign was the source of the Obama claim.

Justin:

It has already been discovered that the Bush administration authorized using force in Pakistan if they could absolutely pinpoint where Bin Laden was, regardless of Pakistan’s complicity.

I love that the neocons started screaming when Obama suggested this action and they shut up when they found out that it was already in the Bush agenda…

Hmmm.  So a Democrat Candidate for president agrees with Bush expanding the war to Pakistan?

Well, I guess that is par for the course because Kerry, Clinton, and others voted for us going to war in Iraq only to distance themselves later from their own vote.  Obama would send troops into Pakistan uninvited and if he were president, he couldn’t even blame bush for doing it anymore.

Julius,

Since you seem to be quite a fan of both the rookie Senator from Illinois and diplomacy, perhaps you’ll take a moment and tell us just what diplomatic steps a young President Obama could take that would be effective in preventing the Iranians from acquiring nuclear weapons.  I say acquiring, because obviously where such weapons are concerned it is always more prudent to assume that when they say they seek to destroy Israel and the US they probably mean what they say.

So tell us, please, what steps should be taken to ensure that the Iranians do not take control of the Persian Gulf or destroy the state of Israel?  I’ll remind you that the United Nations (Snort!), the IAEA, the European Union, the British, the French, the Germans, the Swiss, the Russians, and the Chinese have all tried to influence the Iranians and dissuade them from their present course… all to no avail.  But as you are convinced that no such serious efforts have taken place and that young Mr. Obama can be successful where all these other efforts have failed, maybe you can explain just how he would do this.  What steps would Obama take that have not been tried already?  What promises would the neophyte offer that the vast majority of the non-muslim world has not already suggested?  What would Barack Obama say that has not been said by the likes of Dr. Rice, Colin Powell, President Putin, or Dr. Mohammed el-Baradei?

So far all you’ve had to offer is the same tiresome, liberal, anti-Bush rhetoric.  How about some detailed and specific alternative instead.  Go ahead… surprise us!

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Bat,

I must admit, you have my back against the wall, in all seriousness. I don’t know exactly what I would do and I certainly don’t know what Obama would bring to the table.

But do you really think that we can stretch our military to now engage in a war with Iran? I can’t claim to know what the answer is, I just don’t think that launching a third war is the answer. Neither does Obama.

I might not be so hesitant to reply with a plan if we weren’t already bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we weren’t, I’d absolutely say that war is on the table. Fact is, we can’t do anything short of a tactical nuclear weapon and Iran knows that we won’t use it.

There is no great answer, unfortunately. I do believe that the Iraq war was a senseless and wasteful endeavor and that it has only served to distract us from dangers in N. Korea and Iran. But, as I’ve said, N. Korea is starting to come around.

I don’t know…but you negotiate until war is the absolute last choice.

Julian, Obama’s church affiliate is not a run-of-the-mill Church of Christ but the Trinity United Church of Christ.  From the church’s own web site is their mission statement.

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian… Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Note that they consider themselves African NOT Americans.  Now do we want a president that is more African (and muslim?) than American? I don’t think so. One could never be sure particularly on the international level where his loyalties lied.

One of the most important talents for success in politics is the ability to make utter nonsense sound not only plausible but inspiring. Barack Obama has that talent. We will be lucky if we escape the catastrophes into which other countries have been led by leaders with that same charismatic talent.
-Thomas Sowell

Boy, you’re just ready to scare up anything to get your point across, arent you?

“We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian”...

What is wrong with that? And it says CHRISTian. Barack Obama is an AMERICAN citizen, not AFRICAN. Your just xenophobic. Would you have a qualm about a Jewish President, afraid that he might be more sympathetic to the needs of Israel than America?

Plus, you still haven’t showed me where it says everyone else sucks. This is important because the churches of the UCC are wide and varied. Our own congregation has a shelter for homeless (as I’m sure the Trinity one does) and a sizable gay community. Some are for gay marriage rights, but all are for equality among people.

“We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization” - I know you’re probably a creationist but this is true…we all came from Africa…Europeans, Asians, South Americans…

Anything else?

I don’t know…but you negotiate until war is the absolute last choice.

Where the hell have you been the past 6 years?  We have been in the state of war for the past 6 years. 

We, America, didn’t start this war.  This war was started on 9/11/2001 by the muslims.  THERE IS NO ROOM FOR NEGOTIATIONS AFTER THE FIRST SHOT IS FIRE, YOU NINCOMPOOP!!!  If you had knew anything about the history of wars, you would realize this.  Examples: Fort Sumter - start of Civil War; Pearl Harbor - start of WWII; Austrian assination - start of WWI.

One of the most important talents for success in politics is the ability to make utter nonsense sound not only plausible but inspiring. Barack Obama has that talent. We will be lucky if we escape the catastrophes into which other countries have been led by leaders with that same charismatic talent.
-Thomas Sowell

I don’t know…but you negotiate until war is the absolute last choice.

You have it backwards; that’s not negotiation, it’s appeasement.  Negotiation happens after victory or when victory is impending.  If the enemy is either winning or still thinks he can win, why negotiate for something he thinks he can take by force?

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

I might not be so hesitant to reply with a plan if we weren’t already bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Typical leftie lying propaganda; we are not “bogged down”.  We are fighting the terrorists and killing them.  Read this:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/09/iraq_as_qaeda_bait.html

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Bogged down would imply that we have no purpose or that we are busy defending territory that is inconsequential.

We are bogged down in Germany.  We are bogged down defending Okinawa.

In both Iraq and Afghanistan we are engaging the enemy.  Whether the enemy would be fighting us in Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, the US…  the enemy is our enemy and we are taking the fight to them.  We choose the location of the battles and we choose when to engage because we have the tactical and strategic advantages to do so.  When they choose to engage us, we win.  When they choose not to, we win.

The question now is solely—does it make sense strategically to fight Iran in Iran rather than fight them via proxy in Lebanon, Iraq, and Afghanistan?  Does it make sense to fight groups other than Hezbollah, Hamas, and QoDS?  Do we want an outright war with Iran?

Bogged down would imply that we have few choices on how we prosecute this war.  We have infinite choices and only slightly limited resources.  Our military is getting stretched, but we have plenty of assets that can be redeployed.  Matter of fact, we will probably have an extra 30,000 troops shortly if the surge continues to work and we can draw down the additional forces as Bush and Petreas want.

The surest way to solve the problems with the Mullahs is to win in Iraq.  Diplomacy works far better when the adversary has reason to fear your position of strength.  That is why they are proxy fighting us and doing all they can to support Sadr and his Mahdi army and the insurgency.  But the Iraqis are wising up and turning these folks in because Iran’s war is not good for Iraqis.  They want peace and prosperity and Iran is the biggest threat to that.

The American Thinker article is a great read.  For all the ignorant liberals out there (yes, I know that is redundant) this article clearly outlines why you are still alive and free to continue your traitorous efforts to align yourselves with our enemy and contribute to the destruction of the free world.  And by the way, I am one of the many people who do believe that Obama is a Muslim, and therefore is our enemy.

Julius,

First, my apologies for not getting back sooner.  (T-storms in the area…we need the rain.)

Let me suggest a look at a map of the Middle East and Central Asia.  You will notice that Iran, at the center of the “Axis of Evil”, is also centered neatly between Iraq on the west, and Afghanistan and Pakistan on the east.  As it happens, American combat forces are conveniently located on either side of Iran, as well as in the Indian Ocean and the Persian Gulf.  (We also have assets based to the north of Iran.)  This has not happened by accident, I can assure you.  And if you and I understand that fact, the Iranian mullahs certain do as well.  In international relations this is what’s known as pressure.  In Afghanistan to the east, the Taliban are being slowly but methodically decimated.  To the west in Iraq,  Saddam and sons are history.

Now, let me shift gears here for a moment.  While you are not a regular or daily commenter here at SAB, you are certainly a frequent reader nonetheless.  So, in the time you’ve been visiting here, how many minds have you seen changed from Right to Left or vice-versa?  There are some pretty knowledgeable and intelligent people here, with some pretty convincing literary skills as well.  So how effective has all that intellectual firepower proven to be over time?  Just how convincing have we been?

Honestly… not all that convincing.  The underlying beliefs represented here are strong ones, and there’s really very little likelihood that Mike Adamson is going to convince me of the error of my originalist, free market conservatism, nor am I likely to prevail on him to give up his well-spoken utopian liberalism or his fond attachment to moral equivalence.  Puzzlefeet hasn’t convinced anyone that Wal-Mart is evil or that unions serve any worthwhile social or economic purpose.  The fact is, despite all the ideological devotion and weapons grade intelligence, no one has really changed the minds of their opponents very much, have they?

So, given all that, why on earth would you actually believe that diplomacy and negotiation are going to have any substantive effect on the Iranians quest for nuclear weapons?  Think about it.

Here’s a related analogy for you:  During the Clinton years one could not turn on the TV news or read a newspaper or magazine without walking head first into everyone’s favorite Middle East cliché, “Peace Process.”  It was the mother of all talking points… pun intended.  But what was actually accomplished?  Nothing!  Arafat, a minor league mass murderer was lionized and given a Nobel Peace Prize.  He personally gave the order for the murder of US diplomats in Khartoum, a fact known to the US State Department.  And yet in the name of the holy “peace process” we treated him much as we did Pope John Paul II, instead of taking him into custody or simply killing him.

And what was accomplished?  Nada.  Zippo.  Zilch.

Next time you’re tempted to get all maudlin and sanctimonious about diplomacy and negotiation, remind yourself of the word “intifada” instead.  There is a place for diplomacy to be sure.  But the state of Israel, a US ally and the region’s only functioning democracy, suffered an enormous amount of death and carnage because of restraints imposed by the US in the name of negotiation.  And in the end, it was all for naught.

A nuclear armed Iran, sponsor of Hamas and Hezbollah, could destroy certainly Israel as they have promised to do.  That sort of holocaust can not be allowed to happen.  And certainly not for the sake of “negotiation”... or moral equivalence, either.  If we wait for the attack, its already too late.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

To the west in Iraq, Saddam and sons are history.

You dumbass.  Saddam’s sons were not allies of Iran, but enemies.  Al Malaliki is Iran’s ally.  The current government in Iraq is far friendlier than any past one in Iraq.

Lestat,

My apologies.  Apparently the ideas I was trying to communicate and the words I used to do so were simply too much for your modest intellect.  I don’t take offense at the ad hominem being well aware that it’s really all you have to offer anyway.

Besides, with any sort of luck at all, your reproductive processes are every bit as atrophied as your mental ones, and our nation’s gene pool will be spared any further corruption and embarrassment.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Julius rants, Diplomacy has failed? When have we tried diplomacy in earnest with Iran?

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wants Israel and the West dead and is working towards that goal. He doesn’t hide this fact. Mutually assured destruction isn’t a deterrent with these types of people.

Now start your “earnest” diplomacy. Good luck!

It seems to be doing pretty well with another country with a whacko leader, N. Korea.

What diplomacy? The fact is that Kim Jong-il was screaming for attention and demanding talks. We rightfully recognized his childish antics for what they were and diplomatically ignored him for awhile. Now he is the one crawling back to the table now that he knows his place.

Why are you talking about diplomacy anyways Julius? You just got done calling us “idiots”, “moron”, and “bone heads”. Diplomacy? You don’t even know what it means.

And, for the record, he is not a Muslim…you idiots are the same jokers who tried to tie him to terrorism because he attended a school in Indonesia. He happens to be a Christian, from the United Church of Christ. Do your homework, moron.

Two-faced lying is a virtue in the Muslim world. The fact that he claims otherwise is already known. Next time do your homework before you get all half-cocked.

Two-faced liar? No, this administration won that award a long time ago. WMD? Al Qaeda Connection? Halliburton? Evesdropping programs?

Do you have a problem staying on topic? You’re playing a game of, “hey, look over here instead!”. It ain’t going to work. The subject is Obama. Focus Julius, if you can.

Dubya, however, has shown quite a passion for launching unnecessary wars when he doesn’t know what else to do…which is 99% of the time.

Guess what? He’s doing it again.

Preventing a nuclear Mullah is “unnecessary”? Not where I am from. What side are you on as you ignore this rising Muslim Hitler?

When you negotiate with evil, who wins?

Gullible are the lemmings who follow them into another decade of hopelessness, trumpeting the mantra that any kind of change is dangerous.

That’s you! You don’t want change here. You want more of the same, more of the failed “diplomacy”, and more of sitting back and watching the bad guys arm themselves with weapons. You are the lemming! What do you fear so much Julius? Why do you fear change so much?

Oh, and another example of doing your homework:

likwidshoe:

His name is Barack Hussein Obama, not the other way around.

It was a simple mistake.

Lestat - You dumbass.  Saddam’s sons were not allies of Iran, but enemies.

Wow Lestat. You’re lost. Nobody had claimed otherwise.

The “dumbass” label applies to you.

Let us know when you catch up, okay?

Actually, Julius is the first liberal to even mention North Korea lately.

Of course, for the past few years everyone on the Left was braying like a lovesick jackass that the Bush administration was being too harsh, too dogmatic, and too unilateral toward the North Koreans, instead of engaging them in face-to-face bi-lateral diplomacy as Kim had demanded.  Now, all of a sudden, the situation with North Korea is a triumph of diplomacy???  Too funny!!!  Where’s Madeline Albright when we need a good laugh?  Probably “advising” Hillary.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

vboscaino,

Obama is not a Muslim. If he is a Muslim than I could rightly call you a Muslim. You are entirely ingoring the fact that he is a member of the UCC. Where is your proof, simply because he has a name that sounds funny to you?

So are you saying that every Muslim is our enemy? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a long time.

“this article clearly outlines why you are still alive and free to continue your traitorous efforts to align yourselves with our enemy and contribute to the destruction of the free world.”

More of the same right wing rhetoric that “If you’re not with us, you’re against us.” Nonsensical.

DocDave,

“You don’t want change here. You want more of the same, more of the failed “diplomacy”, and more of sitting back and watching the bad guys arm themselves with weapons. You are the lemming! What do you fear so much Julius? Why do you fear change so much?”

I embrace change. I’m not afraid of it. What i’m afraid of is a president who can’t seem to change and can only think in terms of war. He simply folds his arms when he doesn’t like what he hears and fires those in the military who disagree with him. Think Petraeus doesn’t know this? I’d love to hear some of their conversation in Anbar when Bush payed a “surprise” visit.

“Two-faced lying is a virtue in the Muslim world. The fact that he claims otherwise is already known. Next time do your homework before you get all half-cocked.”

I don’t even know what this means. Show me what you’re trying to say. Obama claims what?

“Why are you talking about diplomacy anyways Julius? You just got done calling us “idiots”, “moron”, and “bone heads”.

Fair enough. I’ll tone down the name calling.

“This war was started on 9/11/2001 by the muslims.  THERE IS NO ROOM FOR NEGOTIATIONS AFTER THE FIRST SHOT IS FIRE, YOU NINCOMPOOP!!!  If you had knew anything about the history of wars, you would realize this.  Examples: Fort Sumter - start of Civil War; Pearl Harbor - start of WWII; Austrian assination - start of WWI.”

Thanks for the history lesson, but Iraq did not attack us. If we were to attack who attacked us we would have invaded Saudi Arabia.

Bat,

Very thoughtful piece. I appreciate your knowledge of the situation, you know you’re stuff. Although I would disagree with how smoothly things are going in Afghanistan. The Taliban is resurfacing and becoming bolder.

Also, if you think that Israel doesn’t have a nuclear weapon you’re being naive. Iran must suspect this as well.

I know that we’re not going to change each other’s minds. But the first step in negotiation is trying to see things from you’re opponents perspective. You bring up some very very valid points and I’ll think on them.

But the first step in negotiation is trying to see things from you’re opponents perspective.

Very good point; it’s the primary reason why negotiation with terrorists is absolutely futile.  Think about it.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

“Very good point; it’s the primary reason why negotiation with terrorists is absolutely futile.  Think about it.”

True. It takes two side to negotiate and terrorists are the least likely to look at both sides. Look, if we get actual proof that Iran is building a nuclear weapon, yes, we need to do something about it. I’m not saying that you negotiate until you’re attacked. I love peace but there is a time for war. But we don’t have proof of a weapons program…yes, the rhetoric and sabre rattling does lead one to believe they are arming themselves but we thought that with Iran. I just don’t have much faith in this administration to tell the truth anymore. They’ve been wrong about almost everything.

I’m not saying that you negotiate until you’re attacked.

Thus guaranteeing dead Americans.  Not smart.  You have it backwards; victory first, then negotiation.
As far as your original statement was concerned, I was actually applying it to us; how can we possibly see things from their perspective?
Your whole thing about “needing proof” before we act is exactly how Clinton enabled Al Qaeda to grow strong enough to attack us on 9/11.  I’m in favor of us learning from that mistake.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

But the first step in negotiation is trying to see things from you’re opponents perspective.

Wrong.  The first step in negotiation, in fact the only thing that makes negotiation possible is shared interest.  When it comes to how a negotiation takes place between free people and those who have always been enslaved by one regime or another, either monarchy or theocratic dictatorship, where is the shared interest?  We have no interest in being enslaved, and they have no idea of what it means to be individually independent.  If they became interested in becoming free, then negotiation might be possible.  Now do you see the real problem with your idealistic “negotiate with the terrorists” position?

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

But the first step in negotiation is trying to see things from you’re opponents perspective.

Julius,

Respectfully, I must disagree.  The first step is to establish one’s own goals and determine what can be negotiated away and what must be achieved in exchange.  Without fully understanding your own position you can hardly manage any sort of successful negotiation… no matter who the opponent.

That aside, you have managed to hit upon one of the key difficulties in dealing with a fanatic, defined in this case as someone who is not only willing but anxious to die for the glorious opportunity of taking his enemy with him… including innocent women and children.  That sort of opponent has no interest in negotiating to achieve a settlement, and little more interest in his own survival either, since his goal is a glorious death.

If your goal is my destruction, no matter what it costs you, I would be a fool to further risk my own life merely to save yours.  My only reasonable course of action is to kill you as swiftly and ruthlessly as possible.  Negotiation makes no sense at all.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Look, if we get actual proof that Iran is building a nuclear weapon, yes, we need to do something about it. I’m not saying that you negotiate until you’re attacked. I love peace but there is a time for war. But we don’t have proof of a weapons program…yes, the rhetoric and sabre rattling does lead one to believe they are arming themselves but we thought that with Iran.

You mean like when we got actual proof of Pakistan and India doing it when they detonated underground nuclear bombs?

But there is some thought to this.  If Iran really wanted or was capable of building nukes, they wouldn’t be announcing it to the world.  Same with NoKo.  What these countries want is UN and US money.  They want bought off. 

Our goals are not simply to stop a nuclear program.  If Julius or Lestat think that is our goal in negotiating, they are wrong.  What we want is regime change, regional stability, the death of radical Islam, and these countries to root out terrorists and stop funding terrorism against Israel.

How can diplomacy with these folks work when our goals are completely incompatible with their survival?  They understand that there is no way diplomacy will work, that is why they are funding war with us via proxy in Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan, and Israel.  We know diplomacy won’t work because it doesn’t achieve our goals.  Our CIA and State are working to topple their regime.  You think they want to negotiate with us?  Geez, is the left really that naive?  They think this whole thing is just about WMDs.