Obama Targeting McCain On Harley Comment

Recently during a speech at the Sturgis motorcycle rally McCain told the crowd that he’d rather talk over the roar of 50,000 Harley Davidson motorcycles than the roar of 200,000 Berliners. Now Obama is quietly (he hasn’t released it to the national media) running a radio ad in Wisconsin (where Harleys are made) criticizing McCain for not requiring that the government buy only American-made motorcycles.
Here’s the audio of the ad. Here’s a transcript:

(Motors revving)
Announcer: Listen to John McCain speaking to motorcycle enthusiasts in Sturgis, South Dakota, on Tuesday.
McCain: Not long ago a couple of hundred thousand Berliners made a lot of noise for my opponent. I’ll take the roar of 50,000 Harleys any day…
Announcer: But when it comes to his record, American-made motorcycles like Harleys don’t matter to John McCain. Back in Washington, McCain opposed the requirement that the government buy American-made motorcycles. And he said all buy-American provisions were quote “disgraceful.” Surprised? You shouldn’t be. This is the same John McCain who supported billions in tax breaks for companies who ship American jobs overseas.
(More motors revving)
Announcer: It’s time to hear the roar of the strong American economy again — and stop John McCain from shipping our jobs overseas.
Obama: I’m Barack Obama, candidate for president, and I approved this message. Paid for by Obama for America.

Obama’s point is that it would be better for the economy for the government to buy only American-made products. But is that really true?
Think about it: Why does the government, or anyone for that matter, buy foreign products rather than domestic products? Typically there are two reasons: Cost and quality. Often a foreign made product is cheaper than an American made product. Or it’s of better quality. Or both.
Mandates requiring the purchase of only American-made products remove often cheaper, often better quality alternatives to the nation.
So what Obama’s suggesting is that we create a situation where America’s tax dollars are often spent on products that are more expensive and/or of lower quality than what they could be spent on otherwise.
And we’re supposed to believe that this less efficient, less effective expenditure of tax dollars is good for our economy?
Also, how is Harley Davidson supposed to feel about this? What Obama is effectively saying is that their product can’t compete with foreign products without mandates. Which, coincidentally enough, is the same line liberals feed to farmers about subsidies and minorities about affirmative action.

Tags: , , ,


«
»
  • Hannitized

    Here is Robert on “domestic energy”:

    …and our failure to develop our domestic energy sources is a choice(a misguided one, to be sure). I repeat, the real damage is that we have become a consumer in the market, while abandoning the power position of being a supplier, as well.

    and proof he is not only talking about drilling:

    Drilling is only one of the things we need to do, after we undo all the legislative damage that has been done by the environazis. When any form of energy becomes feasible in a free market, I will support it.

    Tell me about lying again Robert. Please?

  • Hannitized

    B1,

    I notice you only weigh in to offer your cheap shots and low blows.

    You are not quite the heavy-weight you purport to be.

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    Hannitized:

    Care to browse Harley Davidson’s online catalog and tell me which model you think would be best for moving Navy SEALs around the wildest parts of Afghanistan?

    I’m thinking a Springer Softail myself.

  • robert108

    It’s the tax and spendocrats who ship the jobs overseas, where they can escape the greedy leftie govt taxes and restrictive regulations that make it so much more costly to do business here, not to mention the greedy unions.
    Cut tax rates to a total of 20% of income, eliminate taxes on capital, make unions subject to antitrust laws, let the interest rate find its own level, and no jobs will get shipped overseas.

  • Mickey

    In Wisconsin, the pride in Harley Davidson is second only to The Green Bay Packers. Obama is a fool to attack McCain on this one…. Vets’ ride Harleys…

  • Hannitized

    Robert,

    You are avoiding answering the direct question I see.

    Here is your attempt at a response:

    …and preaching so-called “alternative energy” while promising to deny us the use of the most productive sources of energy, are all policies of economic isolationism.

    How does your proposal to build “alternative energy” and also drill for our own oil NOT represent economic isolationism?

    You are your own worst enemy.

  • Bat One

    H,

    Id be happy to discuss trade policy issues with you. You and your boy candidate are about as wrong, and dishonest, in that area as in virtually every other area of public policy.

    But reviewing the comments on this thread, I see that my questions to you regarding tax and economic policy were posed first. When you’ve shown me the courtesy of addressing my questions to you, I’ll be only too willing to return that courtesy.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    What part of Barack Obama’s tax and economic proposals will actually re-invigorate the economy? How does this happen if those proposals involve additional tax and regulatory burdens being placed on the economy?

    Irrelevant. Since Obama’s heart is in the right place, it doesn’t matter if his brain is in his ass.

  • Hannitized

    Oh, and here is the link to Roberts blatant flip-flopping.

    http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/why_does_it_matter_if_big_oil_support_john_mccain/

  • pparets

    r108 is dead-on on this issue.

    Every election-cycle the dems raise the “Buy American” mantra to keep labor and unions in their pocket.

    H should start doing a little observation research in Hawaii. Start counting the total number of cars you see, and then figure out what percentage of them are American.

  • robert108

    How does your proposal to build “alternative energy” and also drill for our own oil NOT represent economic isolationism?

    You lie again; I have always said that so-called “alternative energy” is a waste of time and money. The leftie version of “energy independence” is pure economic isolationism.
    I understand you are too ignorant to understand that simple concept.

    I replied directly to your bullshit, btw. You are just too ignorant of the realities of economics to know that.
    Educate yourself.

  • Hannitized

    Wing,

    The fact remains that Obama was pointing his finger and saying “shame on you” to McCain for not agreeing to a mandate that essentially means the government must buy Harley-Davidsons (the spot was run in Wisconsin).

    Dude. Because you misinterpret what Obama actually said, neither gives you the right to criticize him as ignorant, or demand that I respond to your nonsense.

    Your ignorant words may tickle Bat, but they make me sick and make you look stupid.

  • robert108

    After all, if you can’t trust the very words they use, how in the hell can you what they’re actually saying?

    Exactly, which is why if lefties aren’t preaching straight Marxism, with “the dictatorship of the proletariat”, they are lying.

  • Hannitized

    This is like shooting fish in a barrel. Yawn.

  • Bat One

    H,

    If I seem to have jumped the gun (your trite phrase) my apologies. I have been trying for weeks to get you to abandon the mind-numbing platitudes of your boy candidate and talk policy specifics, particularly in the area of economic policy and taxes, but you seem to strangely unable or unwilling to do so. I wonder why.

    As I might have expected, you’ve conveniently left out a word… a word which I deliberately included in my comment. That word is “mandated.”

    There is nothing at all wrong with buying American. On the contrary. But being forced to do so as a matter of law is exactly the sort of ignorance I was referring to. Why, for example, should I or any other American be forced to spend $18 for a bath towel made in the US when I can buy one of equal quality made in Sri Lanka for $6?

    Its interesting that you quote the Obama position on trade, because it shows him to be not a principled leader, but a conniving, indecisive liar instead. Earlier in the year he was quoted as favoring doing away with NAFTA. Then he said he was not going to undo the trade treaty. Now he repeats that which he previously denied, saying it was “oversold” and should be “renegotiated.”

    If his union bosses want a Mulligan on NAFTA, please explain what exactly is wrong with the current treaty, why this isn’t another example of pandering to one of the Democrats’ favored special interest groups, and why he is (for now) in favor of re-doing NAFTA when he previously said that he wasn’t.

    Oh… and see if you can manage any of this without the warm fuzzies, using details, facts, and specifics instead.

    Once again, your boy is a radical leftist whose policy pronouncements will cripple the US economy. Forcing Americans to buy American-made goods only proves the point.

  • Hannitized

    This is the root problem of the so-called “energy independence” as preached by the lefties. It’s just more economic isolationism.

    Heh.

    Robert, can you show me where anyone from the Democrat side is preaching isolationism? I am telling you that you can’t.

    Further how does your desire to create our own energies designed to reduce our dependancy on foreign supply differ from Dems?

    Try not to make yourself look like a hypocrite now.

  • Hannitized

    BAT,

    Your failure to respond and step up to the plate is noted.

    Unfortunately, I have business to attend to this week. Helping companies green their data center, reduce power and cooling requirements by the way of virtualizing their storage, server and desktop environment requires my attention from 8-5.

    On the occasions I can break away, I hope to find your response. But if you are going to keep moving the goal posts, I will respectfully accept your admission of defeat.

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    Hannitized:

    The fact remains that Obama was pointing his finger and saying “shame on you” to McCain for not agreeing to a mandate that essentially means the government must buy Harley-Davidsons (the spot was run in Wisconsin).

    Since Harley hasn’t sold a dirtbike since the 1970s (and I believe those were made in Italy), there’s nothing in Harley’s catalog that would even be usefull for the military, parks department, or Border Patrol.

    This shows a lot of ignorance on Obama’s part. Ignorane of motorcycles and what kind Harley makes. Ignorance of where the government might need motorcycles and what kind they might need.

  • Bat One

    So… H, you’ve got your panties in a pinch because I insist that you demonstrate the same courtesy and respect that you so loudly and obnoxiously demand of others? You have no claim on my time and attention that you are not willing to exercise on my behalf. I certainly don’t owe you shit.

    And now, strangely enough, all of a sudden you’re too busy to bother answering someone else’s question? How predictable can you get?

    Look, you and your boy candidate are both frauds… ill-informed, platitude-spouting frauds. And while I will grant that you have a capable vocabulary, you obviously have neither the mental horsepower to sustain it nor the knowledge necessary to fuel that mini-motor between your ears.

    Come and go as you please. Your self-righteous insults are irrelevant in any case. Just don’t bother me. At least not til you’ve grown up.

  • Bat One

    I

    never said I wasn’t willing, I said I wasn’t going to change the subject of this thread. You want to talk taxes, start a new thread.

    Not much of an excuse… especially coming from you. Next you’ll be castigating others for posting insults. Imagine that!

    You sound like nothing so much as a prepubescent teenager variously pleading and promising anything at all simply to get what she wants. Phooey!

    The last three posts here at SAB dealing with taxes and economic policy are here, here, and here.

    Two of those three are mine, and I can assure you there are plenty of others over the past months and years before, including several detailing the proof of my claim that cuts in the rate of taxation of capital gains and dividends have more than paid for themselves. You have posted comments on none of these, which indicates to me that you have not the knowledge to discuss those subjects effectively, or you are well aware that the tax and economic policies of the Left are indefensible and detrimental to the nation’s economic health, just as I have stated.

    In either case, whether you can’t handle such a discussion of facts and issues, or simply won’t… whether you can’t afford to others the courtesy and respect you insist they pay you, or won’t… no matter what your excuse, I’m done with you. Go pester someone else with the patience to put up with your “progressive” prattle. I’ve already done all the child-rearing I’m inclined to do. You bore me!

  • Bat One

    The fact remains that Obama was pointing his finger and saying “shame on you” to McCain…

    Perhaps its just me, but for the callow Mr. Obama to scold someone of John McCain’s age and experience strikes me as more than a little presumptuous. Especially given that Obama’s own resume could easily fit on the back of a 3X5 card… in crayon.

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    Wang Chung,
    I don’t understand why you keep trying to make the same menial point? He said American made. He wasn’t specific to only Harley Davidson.
    Also, there are hundreds of thousands of motorcycles that police and other government agencies use that are made by Harley Davidson.

    Hannitized:

    The article you point out list only municipal applications, not fedeal government applications. Yes, heavy 800 lb motorcycles are usefull for traffic cops. I think we can all agree that traffic cops don’t need 200 lb motocross bikes.

    I can see where Harley Davidson would be a good choice for some place like New York City or Boston. Those same bikes are a poor choice for where I live (where it’s routinely over 100 degrees). Air cooled V-twins don’t stand up to hard use in high temperatures as well because the back cylinder doesn’t get much airflow. Heat means damage.

    But back to my main point. Exactly who in the federal government is going to buy motorcycles. I don’t see IRS agents going from place to place on motorcycles. I don’t see BATF or FBI rushing to crime scenes on big motorcycles. They mostly drive cars, vans and SUVs.

    The military uses motorcycles for moving around special forces in rough terrain. And no American manufacturers build small light off road capable motorcycles.

    The border patrol uses dirt bikes in the desert along the border, where it’s routinely over 100 degrees. So air cooled V-twins would be a liability. But that’s beside the point since no American manuacturer mass produces off road motorcycles.

    Yes, Harley Davidsons can be used as traffic motorcycles in cooler northern cities. The federal government doesn’t write parking tickets.

  • robert108

    Robert, can you show me where anyone from the Democrat side is preaching isolationism? I am telling you that you can’t.

    I already have, but I’ll ‘splain it to you one more time. Undoing free trade, preaching “buy American” as a mandate, not a recommendation, and preaching so-called “alternative energy” while promising to deny us the use of the most productive sources of energy, are all policies of economic isolationism.
    If you are unable to understand this, I recommend a good beginning econ course at your local community college.

  • robert108

    Robert,

    Care to elaborate on your flip flops on energy sources and our dependancy on foreign oil?

    I have made none, so you are lying once again. I have clearly stated that I consider coal, oil and natural gas the only viable energy sources at the present time, and that so-called “alternative energy” is nothing more than a “green welfare” program.
    Since we have chosen, due to political maneuvering from the environazi/Dem axis, to not develop our real energy sources for thirty years, the leftie liars call it a “dependency”, but it’s only a choice that can be changed at any time.
    The Stalinist tactics of Premier Pelosi are only necessary because what I say is true. The last thing you lefties want is for the American people to vote out this artificial “dependency”.

    I’m not going to ‘splain this to you again, sonny, so you had better remember it this time.

    We have many capped wells, many off the CA coast, that don’t require drilling; they only have to be restored to function; this oil could be available by the end of this year. So, it’s not just your simplistic bullshit about “drilling”, is it?

  • Bat One

    Roy Jacobson,

    H is too bashful and shy, so I will ask on his behalf: Does Friedman’s book have lots of pictures?

  • Hannitized

    Robert,

    Care to defend your flip-flops?

  • Bat One

    Wing Chun,

    Indians are currently NOT being manufactured. The company went belly up several years ago, and I believe the owners of Bayliner, the boat manufacturer, purchased the rights. They have plans to open a factory in Florida, but I don’t think they have begun production yet.

    Except for a few very small, specialized fabricators, Harley IS the only US motorcycle manufacturer.

  • Bat One

    Whatever!

  • Hannitized

    B1,

    All you have demonstrated is that you are not up to the challenge of discussing economic isolationism and the myths around it and the unionization of certain industries.

    This post started out with all sorts of wild accusations of the left, and Obama. None of them were proven and when challenged, I responded, you ran.

    I can’t help it that you don’t like it that you have no argument on this subject so instead you want to frame the debate around something that you feel you can safely hide behind, such as taxation ideologies and theories of the right. Phooey indeed.

    The fact of the matter is that when you challenged me, I responded, now you are running away.

    You posed the argument that Obama is mandating Americans buy American, that is not true. You posed that Obama wanted to repeal NAFTA, that is not true. You posted that Obama is some pro-union appeaser instead of having rational arguments against NAFA, again you were wrong.

    I am willing to debate you on this issue and you are left wanting to change the subject.

    I have gone around and around with you on all of the acclaim Obama’s economic plan has gained over McCain. This is not the time nor the place. It’s pretty straight forward and all of your attempts at obfuscation are transparent and tedious.

  • http://rmjacobsen.squarespace.com/ Roy Jacobsen

    Buying American and reducing the amount of jobs that are shipped over seas, keeps the economy from dwindling. Watching the economy dwindle has been a patented trade mark of this administration.

    Everyone who rants about “jobs shipped overseas” needs to spend some time reading The World is Flat by Thomas Friedman, who pretty much eviscerates the usual tropes about outsourcing.

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    Hannitized:

    Here’s a list of American motorcycle manufacturers from Wikipedia:

    Ace — (1920-1927)
    American Ironhorse —
    Arrow — (1909-1914)
    California Motorcycle Company —
    Cleveland — (1902-1927)
    Crocker — (1936-1941)
    Curtiss — (1902-1910)
    Cushman — (1936-1965)
    Emblem (1909-1925)
    Excelsior (Chicago) — (1907-1931)
    Excelsior-Henderson — (1993 / 1998-2001)
    Harley-Davidson — (1903-present)
    Henderson — (1911-1931)
    Indian — (1907-
    Iver Johnson — (1907-1916)
    Marsh — (1899-1913)
    Militaire — (1911-1919)
    Mustang — (1945-1963)
    Ner-a Car — (1921-1927)
    Merkel — (1902-1915)
    Pierce — (1909-1913)
    Pope — (1911-1918)
    Reading Standard — (1903-1922)
    Rokon —
    Sears — (1912-1916) (1953-1963)
    Simplex (Louisiana) — (1935-1960)
    Schickel — (1912-1919)
    Thor — (1907-1917)
    Yale (motorcycles) —
    Yankee —
    Victory — (1998-present)

    Which do you think the average Border Patrol agent would prefer for chasing drug runners through the wilderness?

    The Victory 8-Ball

    (http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory/2009/8-Ball-Cruisers/Vegas-8-Ball/Pages/features.aspx)

    Or the Harley Davidson Night Train soft tail.

    (http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/2008_Motorcycles/2008_Motorcycles.jsp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US)

  • Hannitized

    Robert,

    What makes you think we can drill ourselves out of our energy dependency on foreign supply? How much oil do you think we have and how long do you think it will last?

    And scroll up son, you said a few days ago that when other energy sources are viable, you will support them. So you really have very little different a position from Dems. You just don’t know it.

  • Hannitized

    Robert,

    Care to elaborate on your flip flops on energy sources and our dependancy on foreign oil?

  • robert108

    What makes you think we can drill ourselves out of our energy dependency on foreign supply? I have already answered your bullshit on this one. Our threatened re-entry into the production side of the world oil market has dropped the price by over thirty dollars a barrel. What part of that don’t you understand? The price has fallen even before we have started drilling and reopening existing wells. How stupid can you be? How much oil do you think we have and how long do you think it will last? My estimate: At the present state of knowledge(sure to improve radically in the future): a minimum of 100 years. Certainly no need for crisismongering here. It’s just for partisan political purposes.

    And scroll up son, you said a few days ago that when other energy sources are viable, you will support them. So you really have very little different a position from Dems. You just don’t know it. You lie again; the key word in what I said was “when”, which indicates “not now”. You lefties keep insisting that we stop using oil immediately and go on so-called “alternative energy”. That is monumentally stupid. I say again: there are no “alternative energies” that are viable today, or in the forseeable future. If any of them ever become economically feasible, they will be used, but we should never subsidize or mandate them.

    I hope you got it this time, sonny. I’m tired of ‘splaining the same thing to you over and over. I’m not responsible for either your level of education or your ability to learn.

  • Bat One

    Wing Chun,

    I don’t believe he’s finished with the “Sturgis” catalog just yet.

  • Hannitized

    What Obama is effectively saying is that their product can't compete with foreign products without mandates.

    Hahaha! That is now what HE is saying. It is what YOU are saying.

    Once again you project your own beliefs about America and put them into Obama's mouth.

    Maybe one day you will figure out that it is you who thinks little of America, and her workers, not the Democrats.

  • patriot

    Aren't Harley's "premium" motorcycles? I'd be pissed if my police departments were buying harleys for the motorcycle cops. And Harley Davidson can compete just fine in the global marketplace. Their stock (ticker symbol: HOG) has doubled in Ten Years – $20+ to $40+/share – they ship more than 80,000 hogs a quarter. If anything, Harley Davidson should be held up as a shining example of the free market.

    Obama's rolling around in the mud on this one. Wonder who the idiot on the staff is that dreamed this one up.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Hahaha! That is now what HE is saying. It is what YOU are saying.

    From the commercial:

    Announcer: But when it comes to his record, American-made motorcycles like Harleys don't matter to John McCain. Back in Washington, McCain opposed the requirement that the government buy American-made motorcycles. And he said all buy-American provisions were quote "disgraceful." Surprised? You shouldn't be. This is the same John McCain who supported billions in tax breaks for companies who ship American jobs overseas.

    (More motors revving)

    Announcer: It's time to hear the roar of the strong American economy again–and stop John McCain from shipping our jobs overseas.

    Obama is clearly implying that American businesses, including Harley Davidson, would do better if they didn't have to compete with foreign companies.

    Which is like saying that the Cubs would be undefeated if they didn't have to play those other teams.

  • Hannitized

    Obama is clearly implying that American businesses, including Harley Davidson, would do better if they didn't have to compete with foreign companies.

    Or maybe he is implying exactly what he said; that McCain doesn't support AMERICAN MADE purchases for motorcycles. Maybe he is hitting on the subject matter that people who ride Harley's are pro-American and would rather the money stay here and jobs stay here?

    You are reading too far into this, with the use of your crystal ball, obviously.

  • Hannitized

    I meant: McCain doesn't support the government buying American made motorcycles, only.

    There are plenty of American made motorcycles to choose from –
    http://www.indexoftheweb.com/Automobile/Motorcycl…

  • WOOFX

    McCain work$ for Airbu$.
    He'd work for Kawa$aki.

  • http://www.willisms.com/ Zsa Zsa

    I want a Harley! Actually I just want my husband to get one so I can ride on it with him.

  • http://www.wethepeopleforum.com/forum/forums.asp golfmann

    Which is like saying that the Cubs would be undefeated if they didn't have to play those other teams.

    lol

  • kaintock

    The ad is idiotic. It will backfire. The listener will hear those Harleys revving, listen to McCain getting a freddom-loving reception, and agin be reminded of Obama's Europeon vacation. As a marketing guy, I have to tell you we have the better ad experts. Money cannot buy creativity and thoughts that ticklethe mind. Obam's folks are incompetent. Funny thing is, they really think linking McCain w Bush is a bad thing. In reality, it just drives home McCains foreighn policy acumen and experience.

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    OK…let's look for a minute at who in the government purchases motorcycles, and what they purchase them for.

    I know the military purchases some 250 cc off road motorcycles for moving soldiers quickly over rough terrain. I think the the border patrol has some larger dirtbikes, and ATVs. It's also possible that the department of interior has some trail bikes and ATVs.

    Now look at Harley. Not to be critical, but they produce nothing that even approaches those particular niches.

    Now I suppose a Harvard Law weenee like Barack thinks that a Dyna Wide Glide is just as usefull as a YZ 250 for moving Navy Seals around the Iraqi desert. He must also think that a full dress Road King is just as usefull in the desert around the border as a KL 650.

    (And apparently Woof would like to see Yellowstone Rangers tracking agressive bears from an Electra Glide instead of a Japanese enduro)

    I love motorcycles, and I can't think of a single Harley model that is appropriate for the military or border patrol.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Obama is an empty suit.

  • Bat One

    From the commercial:

    It's time to hear the roar of the strong American economy again–and stop John McCain from shipping our jobs overseas.

    In the first place, there is nothing in Barack Obama's tax and economic policy "plans" that is likely to re-invigorate the American economy. On the contrary, raising taxes, especially on businesses and capital formation (capital gains and dividends) and on our country's most economically productive participants is sheer madness when the economy is is just starting to turn around. Furthermore, it is a well-established fact that cuts in the capital gains and dividend tax rates, in 1983, 1997, and 2003 resulted in higher revenues to the federal treasury than had those rate cuts not been instituted. The cuts, in other words, more than paid for themselves. So why on earth would any rational, knowledgeable individual argue for increasing those tax rates, as have Mr. Obama and the Democrats? Raising the cost of producing anything, whether its oil and gasoline, corn and soybeans, a residential mortgage or a bottle of Kentucky bourbon, has never been shown to make more of that product available to the buying public.

    In the same vein, I've seen nothing in Mr. McCain's economic and tax proposals that can be reasonably demonstrated to involve "shipping jobs overseas" as is being claimed by the Democrats. This is simply so much dishonest fear-mongering… pandering to union "bosses" in exchange for campaign contributions of dubious legality.

  • Bat One

    Obama is a fool to attack McCain on this one…. Vets' ride Harleys…

    Mickey,

    Real men don't ride Harleys… they ride "Sturgises".

  • Mickey

    Well, it beats the crap out of the Chicago Rainbow parade.

  • WOOFX

    Bear Rescuing Yellowstone Ranger

    apparently Woof would like to see Yellowstone Rangers tracking agressive bears from an Electra Glide instead of a Japanese enduro

    <img src="http://i38.tinypic.com/i2pm51.jpg&quot; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

    Bear's day off
    <img src="http://i38.tinypic.com/2rcv53d.jpg&quot; border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

  • Hannitized

    Now look at Harley. Not to be critical, but they produce nothing that even approaches those particular niches.

    Wing,

    The ad didn't say anything about their being a requisite to buy Harley's. The ad was specific to motorcycles that are manufactured in America…..all of them.

  • Hannitized

    In the first place, there is nothing in Barack Obama's tax and economic policy "plans" that is likely to re-invigorate the American economy.

    Buying American and reducing the amount of jobs that are shipped over seas, keeps the economy from dwindling. Watching the economy dwindle has been a patented trade mark of this administration. McCain's position only re-enforce this loosing proposition.

    So why on earth would any rational, knowledgeable individual argue for increasing those tax rates, as have Mr. Obama and the Democrats?

    When you have no defense for your guy shipping jobs overseas, and having pro stance for your government buy foreign cars, instead of American made, you might as well change the subject.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    The ad is idiotic. It will backfire. The listener will hear those Harleys revving, listen to McCain getting a freddom-loving reception, and agin be reminded of Obama's Europeon vacation. – kaintock

    That is true except for extreme cases of blubbering idiocy like Hannitized and WOOF, they only hear Leftist Obama's voice calling gently to them, "Vote for me and your handouts will be there soon, losers." They'd support Obama no matter what, gotta keep those welfare checks coming in.

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    Wing,

    The ad didn't say anything about their being a requisite to buy Harley's. The ad was specific to motorcycles that are manufactured in America…..all of them.

    Hannitized:

    Boy you got me. They could also purchase Indians. I'm sure the Border Patrol would love to trade their Japanese enduros in on a 1934 Indian Four that weighs three times as much and has half the power.

    The fact is that for all intents and purposes "American" motorcycles are Harley-Davidsons or custom choppers from small manufacturers. Often these are ungodly expensize, and the lightest of them weigh in at around 600 – 700 lb. The lightest Sportster is at least 200 lbs too heavy to be hauling commandos across the Afgan desert.

    American motorcycle makers have specialized in the chopper and cruiser markets, and produce no motocross, enduro, dual purpose or utility motorcycle.

    Of course I may be wrong. Can anyone please tell me which American motorcycle manufacturer mass produces motocross or enduro motorcycles?

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    Bat One:

    Thanks. I know that the most recent incarnation of Indian went bankrupt a while back. I was being absurd to show the sheer goofiness of the Mesiah's position.

    It seems to me that Obama knows as much about motorcycles as he knows about the military, law enforcement, or the private sector.

  • Bat One

    Buying American and reducing the amount of jobs that are shipped over seas, keeps the economy from dwindling. Watching the economy dwindle has been a patented trade mark of this administration.

    H,

    Finally!!!

    The quote above is the same sort vacuous drivel that your candidate tries to pass for wisdom. So, let's just see if you can do any better… if you can walk the walk… shall we?

    First of all, that mandated buy American crap doesn't work! Quite the contrary. Which you'd understand if you, or your young candidate, knew jack shit about economics. Look up Smoot-Hawley sometime and see for yourself. Under FDR, the Great Depression lasted at least 8 years longer than it ought to have because of exactly the sort counter-productive economic bullshit that Barack Obama is hawking today.

    Second, like it or not, capital goes where it will get the best balance between return and safety. And there is NOTHING Barack Obama or any other economics-illiterate Democrat can do about it… thank God! All the regulations and taxes and tariffs and other economic nonsense that those of you on the Left can dream up will not keep capital, or jobs, here in the US. Its been tried before, by better, wiser men than Obama, and that was before this became a fully global economy with worldwide instantaneous digital communications and transactions. Its nearly midnight here in Atlanta, and from this very computer I can trade gold, oil, or currency futures and options virtually anywhere in the world. If you want jobs in the US, try growing the US economy instead of choking it.

    Now then, you saw fit to quote my questions, both of which are only modestly rhetorical. But do you have answers for either of them?

    What part of Barack Obama's tax and economic proposals will actually re-invigorate the economy? How does this happen if those proposals involve additional tax and regulatory burdens being placed on the economy? Since reducing the rate of taxation on capital gains and dividends has been shown to increase the amount of revenue taken in by the Treasury what is the rationale for increasing those tax rates? And what is your economics authority for doing so? How does raising tax rates stimulate economic activity and growth rather than stifle them? Perhaps this is the same sort of prestidigitation that will make gasoline cheaper at the pump by raising taxes on the companies that produce it?

    There is no question that Obama and his leftwing lemmings have the market on political touchy-feely, warm fuzzies cornered. But when it comes down to facts and issues (remember THAT phrase, kid?), you guys on the left literally haven't got a clue.

  • Bat One

    It seems to me that Obama knows as much about motorcycles as he knows about the military, law enforcement, or the private sector.

    Wing Chun,

    If by "the private sector" you mean economics and tax policy, you are right on the money, as Mr. Kudlow is fond of saying. And next to national defense and foreign affairs, its the second most important area of national policy.

    That Obama, and his believers are so abysmally ignorant in both areas, and so arrogant about their ignorance, makes them and him and intolerable risk to our nation's future.

  • robert108

    Bat: I am always amused when the so-called "progressives" advocate the very regressive isolationist economic policies.
    This is the root problem of the so-called "energy independence" as preached by the lefties. It's just more economic isolationism.

  • Bat One

    It's just more economic isolationism.

    Not to mention linguistic dishonesty on a grand scale. After all, if you can't trust the very words they use, how in the hell can you what they're actually saying?

  • Hannitized

    Bat,

    I am not sure where you draw your conclusions on what I was saying, but you apparently jumped the gun, and the shark.

    I never said Obama doesn't have a pro-trade position. i merely said that buying American keeps money here in America and that is good for the economy, how can it not be? Your conclusion that buying American means that you oppose free trade is simplistic nonsense.

    Why don't you elaborate on how buying American hurts our economy? That should be interesting. You seem eager to prove yourself before the crowd and to tear down your opponent. Well….I'm your huckleberry. Show me how buying American is bad for our economy.

    OBAMAS POSITION

    Trade
    Obama believes that trade with foreign nations should strengthen the American economy and create more American jobs. He will stand firm against agreements that undermine our economic security.

    Fight for Fair Trade: Obama will fight for a trade policy that opens up foreign markets to support good American jobs. He will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world and stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free Trade Agreement that fail to live up to those important benchmarks. Obama will also pressure the World Trade Organization to enforce trade agreements and stop countries from continuing unfair government subsidies to foreign exporters and nontariff barriers on U.S. exports.

    Amend the North American Free Trade Agreement: Obama believes that NAFTA and its potential were oversold to the American people. Obama will work with the leaders of Canada and Mexico to fix NAFTA so that it works for American workers.

    Improve Transition Assistance: To help all workers adapt to a rapidly changing economy, Obama would update the existing system of Trade Adjustment Assistance by extending it to service industries, creating flexible education accounts to help workers retrain, and providing retraining assistance for workers in sectors of the economy vulnerable to dislocation before they lose their jobs.

  • Bat One

    Wing Chun,

    I won't quibble with the words you choose, but you seem to be suggesting that Barack Obama is the either the least informed candidate for President we've had… or the most ignorant. Clearly, either version will suffice.

  • Hannitized

    Bat,

    As I might have expected, you've conveniently left out a word… a word which I deliberately included in my comment. That word is "mandated."

    I didn't ignore it because it was relevant. Quite the contrary actually. I ignored it because nobody in the Obama camp is asking for mandates that Americans buy only American goods. The government on the other hand is another story. In certain instances, he asks that the government buy American where it can.

    Also, what we ask it that Americans consciously choose when to buy American, when they can. This is probably a concept that is lost to you, since Republicans have decided to take on anti-unions as an ideology, instead of a logical and thoughtful response where it might not make sense.

    Why, for example, should I or any other American be forced to spend $18 for a bath towel made in the US when I can buy one of equal quality made in Sri Lanka for $6?

    Here is a better question? Why are you arm wrestling yourself? Who ever said that Americans should only buy American towels?

    Its interesting that you quote the Obama position on trade, … Earlier in the year he was quoted as favoring doing away with NAFTA. Then he said he was not going to undo the trade treaty. Now he repeats that which he previously denied, saying it was "oversold" and should be "renegotiated."

    I think you are confusing yourself. You certainly confused me. What did Obama previously deny?

    In one breath you say that he wanted to do away with NAFTA originally, then you say he originally wanted to re-negotiate it. Which is it, in your mind?

    You have never been great at quoting Obama correctly. I am asking and challenging you to do it here. Instead of mud-slinging, why don't you back up your supposed debate with real evidence and not your interpretations?

    Did you notice the difference between you and I? I backed up my statements with facts. You on the other hand…..well?

    If his union bosses want a Mulligan on NAFTA, please explain what exactly is wrong with the current treaty, why this isn't another example of pandering to one of the Democrats' favored special interest groups,

    First of all, you are wrong about Union bosses wanting a mulligan. What Obama wants to improve on is if trade agreements do not contain better worker and environmental and safety protections. He believes the country would start seeing protectionist rhetoric not just from Democrats but also from Republicans, if it were not re-worked. So that is where you first mistake is.

    Your second mistake is that Unions are not pro "Buy American" as they used to be. You can buy a Toyota, as long as it's manufacturing plant is in the US.

    I personally always bought Ford's, until they changed the style of the F150 in 2006. So I bought a Toyota for the first time in my families life. That truck was made in Fremont California, by the hand of my own friends.

    and why he is (for now) in favor of re-doing NAFTA when he previously said that he wasn't.

    NAFTA can not be repealed, even if he wanted to. What are you talking about?

    It is companies like Wal-Mart who violate the spirit of NAFTA. Even many republicans understand this. Why can't you?

  • Hannitized

    btw,

    I am not letting you change the subject of this thread Bat from economic isolationism and mandates. You wanna talk taxes, start a new thread.

  • Hannitized

    B1,

    You have no claim on my time and attention that you are not willing to exercise on my behalf. I certainly don't owe you shit.

    I never said I wasn't willing, I said I wasn't going to change the subject of this thread. You want to talk taxes, start a new thread.

    Look, you and your boy candidate are both frauds… ill-informed, platitude-spouting frauds. And while I will grant that you have a capable vocabulary, you obviously have neither the mental horsepower to sustain it nor the knowledge necessary to fuel that mini-motor between your ears.

    I will kindly ask that you remember that it was you who chose to reduce our "debate" into mindless insulting and name-calling when pressed to produce an argument, not me.

    I thought you were bigger than this Bat.

  • http://Array Hannitized

    Wang Chung,

    I don't understand why you keep trying to make the same menial point? He said American made. He wasn't specific to only Harley Davidson.

    Also, there are hundreds of thousands of motorcycles that police and other government agencies use that are made by Harley Davidson.

    Recent History
    In the last five years, Harley-Davidson police sales have more than doubled. Today, just as in the late 1920s, more than 3,400 police departments ride Harley-Davidson motorcycles in the U.S. alone. Harley-Davidson Police motorcycles are also used in 45 countries. This is a dramatic increase from the Motor Company's 80th Anniversary twenty years ago, when just over 400 state, provincial, county and municipal police departments were equipped with Harley-Davidson motorcycles.

    After the tragic events of September 11, 2001, Harley-Davidson donated 37 motorcycles to the New York Police Department, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and the New York State Police.

    The Future
    Throughout the years, police and military organizations have realized the advantages of using Harley-Davidson motorcycles. Today, benefits such as high resale value and the ability of the motorcycle to enhance public relations (critical to community policing efforts) continue to increase our police/fleet business. "There is something undeniably right about a cop on a Harley-Davidson."

    http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/…

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    Wang Chung,
    I don't understand why you keep trying to make the same menial point? He said American made. He wasn't specific to only Harley Davidson.
    Also, there are hundreds of thousands of motorcycles that police and other government agencies use that are made by Harley Davidson.

  • Wing Chun Geologist

    Wang Chung,
    I don't understand why you keep trying to make the same menial point? He said American made. He wasn't specific to only Harley Davidson.
    Also, there are hundreds of thousands of motorcycles that police and other government agencies use that are made by Harley Davidson.

  • giubbotti moncler

Create a SAB Readerblog


Recent Comments

Powered by Disqus

Blog Advice and Support
Installs and Upgrades
Theme Modifications
Custom Plugins
Theme Design
Conversions and Relocations
Hacked Site Recovery
Mobile Apps Development