is Freedom of Religion a Civil Right….yes or no?

Yes! Are their limits? There shouldn’t be any, if the exercise of one Civil Right does not infringe upon other Civil Rights of other citizens. Granted it is a treacherous line to walk and error should be on the side of “free exercise” of religion, as the Bill of Rights prohibits Congress from passing any laws infringing on these rights; but the question to me is, ‘are there reasonable accommodations?’

In this case could the same freedom of religion been exercised by doing so within the limits of the Hawaii State law? I faced this with my son’s ashes which he wanted dispersed in the Pacific Ocean, but in the State of California tells us they must be scattered X number of miles off shore, which requires money for a boat and/or an human ash dispersal for a fee company. Since one could go at points along the coast spread the ashes in the Ocean, wherein they would not blow back on private residences or cause any harm to any other person’s civil rights, I think the California Law is an unreasonable infringement on my rights to disperse my son’s ashes at sea. BTW – We cannot disperse them on state or federal lands at all or on private property without permission of the land owner, which protects the rights of private land owners and the public lands restrictions, if not in developed areas, is an unreasonable infringement.

So, how does that apply to what Obama did?

Needless to say, I’ve had more to say than you did!

My first thought was “Of course! There’s no photo op three miles out”.

Proof on December 28, 2008 at 11:49 am

Guess that still puts me one up on you, eh, boob?

Proof on December 28, 2008 at 11:58 am

And yet,still miles ahead of you. Say goodnight, Gracie!

Proof on December 28, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Forget the homage! algore only takes cash & Visa!

Proof on December 28, 2008 at 01:47 pm

Hannitwit: Fogive me for not being glued to my computer in my Mom’s basement like you and actually having a life, my plagiarizing, lying POS troll friend!

Proof on December 28, 2008 at 01:52 pm

Somebody rattled rbb’s cage! Quick! Somebody give him a cookie! Don’t bother him with facts about how many months or years it took to rack up 13K+ posts.

Isn’t it time for you to post another meaningless picture in lieu of intelligent comment now, rbb?

Proof on December 28, 2008 at 02:19 pm

Oooh! Now that McCain is out of the way, you can post your picture of “Flipper” for all the backtracking Obama will do on campaign promises!

Proof on December 28, 2008 at 02:21 pm

Here! You can use one of mine, in case you’ve lost yours!

Proof on December 28, 2008 at 02:28 pm

You are an endless fountain of something, that’s for sure.

Oooh! Now that McCain is out of the way, you can post your picture of “Flipper” for all the backtracking Obama will do on campaign promises!

I’m way ahead of you on the loss of Respect, Hanny.
I think I mentioned that a few days back.
How can one lead a Nation if he won’t follow the Laws of that Nation?
Character is what you do when no one is watching.

And to answer your question, the reason for bringing up Rosa Parks was to knock down the silly notion that all laws are good ones and should be obeyed.

Didn’t Obama just add carbon to the ocean? How many polar bears will die because of this selfish act? He better pay homage to algore, pronto.

Well…
I see that when I’m OK with your whims, I’m a stand-up kinda guy.
When I call you on your complete blindness to your messiah’s wrongs, I’m an “asshat”.
Thank you for opening my eyes.
NOw, on to your questions:

Do president obey traffic laws when they are in a motorcade

Yes they do.
Because they have a police escourt, it gives then the right-of-way

Do you think pouring ashes in the ocean is say, more of an important law than following traffic rules or less

If the Law says 3 miles, then it’s 3 miles.
If he has a problem with that Law, then there are avenues provided for to change the Law.
It doesn’t matter what “everybody else” is doing.
There is photographic evidence of him breaking the Law.
Maybe we’re finding out just why he surrendered his law license.
MAybe he failed to follow the Law & got caught?………

Chief,

Follow the law. Pay the consequences if you violate a law. Expect “everyone else” to follow your lead if you are the one in charge, the senior leader–in this case, the President-Elect of the United States of America

It was once the law that blacks had to ride in the back of the bus. I am glad Rosa Parks did not follow your advice.

Are you?

Clearly, this is not the EPA I’ve known…

rbb: Do you really want me to go into all the comments you have posted merely obsessing over someone’s comment count? (r108′s comes to mind!)
Other than obsessing over big, round numbers, meaningless pictures and blatantly partisan nit-picking, you have no claim to fame! Pity!

Why don’t you and Hannie run along and play with your Barbies® now?

He’s above the law now, just like Nixon.

THe Law hasn’t mattered to obama up to this point.
Why should he start following them now?

Thank you sarainitaly!

After cremation, the ashes may also be scattered on land or water. In Hawaii, there aren’t any regulations restricting where a deceased person’s ashes may be scattered. It is recommended, however, that permission be obtained in advance if the ashes are to be scattered over private property. The ashes may also be scattered at sea or released into the air, if desired.

Now bugger off Reb. You’ve got no legs to stand on.

BBBBBBbut..
He’s not President yet……

On the Saturday after Lorrin “Whitey” Harrison passed away, approximately one hundred friends and family members spread his ashes in the waters off Kawaihae on the Big Island of Hawai`i. There were also ceremonies held at San Onofre marking the passage of one of surfing’s greats; a man whose positive contributions we benefit from each day we hit the surf.

http://www.legendarysurfers.com/surf/legends/ls08_whitey.html

Hannitwit: Fogive me for not being glued to my computer in my Mom’s basement like you and actually having a life, my plagiarizing, lying POS troll friend!

HAHA! Yeah Proof….you have a life. Hahaha.

Lets go over what I did this weekend vs. what you did this weekend and then well cover M-F. We can compare to see who has a life…..and whose most people rather have. Deal?

So, how does that apply to what Obama did?

Proof, the genius, asked if pouring grandmothers ashes in the ocean was a civil right. You just said it was…provided it didn’t infringe upon another’s civil rights. Pouring ashes into the ocean…at any depth is a Hawaiian religious practice.

Nobody said it applied to Obama….although in Hawaii, because of the Native Hawaiians religious and cultural traditions, it is allowed by the state, but then there is the EPA regulations that come into play.

Somebody rattled rbb’s cage! Quick! Somebody give him a cookie! Don’t bother him with facts about how many months or years it took to rack up 13K+ posts.

Isn’t it time for you to post another meaningless picture in lieu of intelligent comment now, rbb?

Hawaiian Culture;

The private scattering of a loved one’s cremated ashes out at sea by the indigenous people of these islands is a Hawaiian cultural tradition, which we have ultimately developed into a modern art form thus, sharing with our friends of the free world the love and respect we have for mother nature, planet earth’s mighty Pacific Ocean, and prayer for a loved one during this celebration of life whom we honor, and above all, the love for Ke Akua, almighty God.

We are proud to announce the formation of Hawai‘i’s first commercialized funeral and memorial sea burial service, which we have appropriately named, SEA BURIAL’S HAWAI’I. Although this practice had been active among the kanaka maoli or Native Hawaiians for centuries, we are introducing for the first time to the maka‘ainana or the general public via the internet, one of Hawai‘i’s most cherished traditions — the private scattering of cremated ashes at sea. It is a simple and economically-priced service performed with solemn dignity, as it contains the wonderful mana or the spiritual essence of Hawai‘i’s compassion and aloha. Our sea burial system has been proven to be safer than the original Waikiki “Beachboy” style of scattering of the ashes at sea aboard the small outrigger canoes. They are not built tough and durable enough to withstand the powerful currents and high seas, especially for these occasions here on the Maui coast. Therefore, for everyone’s concern we use large U.S. Coast Guard inspected ocean vessels which are approved to carry passengers safely and comfortably out to sea and back. The paddling of outrigger canoes are no longer safe for ocean sea burials on Maui. With all due respect to the well-established mortuary and funeral homes in Hawai‘i, we provide the alternative to a conventional funeral by accepting only the cremated ashes of the deceased subsequently scattering its remains into the tranquil waters of the beautiful Pacific Ocean — a final resting place…at home in Hawai‘i. We are currently celebrating our 50th year of providing the only recognized affordable sea burial funeral service in Hawai‘i.

Native Hawaiians who ‘olelo Hawai‘i or speak the native language, refer to this memorial occasion respectfully as na ho‘ohiwahiwa o ho‘ola or a celebration of life. Interestingly enough, though more and more people from the continental US and other overseas countries of the free world, who have either resided or visited our islands over the years have continuously requested this affordable service. They are usually the kama‘aina or the frequent visitor who has become a hãnai or adopted resident of these islands, and who’s heart has become a permanent fixture of their favorite ‘ailana or island. Although our company is anchored on the island of Maui which sea burial services departs daily out of Lahaina Harbor and also from picturesque Ka‘anapali beach. We are also servicing the island of O‘ahu, operating directly on the beach at Waikiki, where our company had “unofficially” originated over a half century ago and the Fisherman’s Wharf and harbor at Kewalo Basin. The service cost is slightly higher at our Waikiki location, because of boat availability, as are all sea burials that are held at sunset time. The amount of family members and invited guests going on board to participate in the scattering ceremony or the size of the vessel will ultimately determine the cost of the sea burial service.

Reb…you ready to accept that between the two of us, someone is full of shit and it aint me?

http://www.hawaiianseaburialcompany.com/

REMEMBERING TIGER
Waterman Tiger Espere receives true Hawaiian send off

Hawaiian legend Tiger Espere passed away on June 22nd at Queens Hospital in Waikiki from a battle with cancer. He had a memorial paddle out at Waimea Bay at the end of July and his ashes were scattered on the Big Island last week. Here, two friends, Jimmy Z and MaryAnne Long, who attended the memorial, remember Tiger and move forward.

******

As the sun started to rise upon the beach at Waimea Bay, the drums started a slow deep drone and the conch shells were sounding like ancient trumpets as the Hokule’a silently slipped into the cove with the most precious cargo it had ever transported.

Tiger Espere who had been one of the major builders of this ancient craft was making his last voyage, as we were all there to honor and memorialize him. This is the same craft that Eddie Aikau lost his life with when he went for help to rescue the crew of the capsized boat.

Tiger passed away the previous week after undergoing chemotherapy, which was just too strong for his weakened body. Tiger slipped away just as the family and he were preparing for bed and when he closed his eyes, there was one quick and final breath and our brother had began his final journey.

http://www.surfline.com/surfnews/article.cfm?id=1477

rbb: How wonderful of you to dwell on the trivial once more. Needless to say, I’ve had more to say than you did! And that doesn’t even count the scores of “comments” you made that were merely meaningless pictures.
But, well done! Have another cookie!

Don’t bother him with facts about how many months or years it took to rack up 13K+ posts.

Well poof, that is an interesting point, so I took the initiative to look up the pertinent facts:

Proof:

Join Date 10/19/2006
Last Visit 12/28/2008
Entries 995
Comments 13259

Rbb:

Join Date 09/25/2006
Last Visit 12/28/2008
Entries 829
Comments 5404

Hannitwit: Fogive me for not being glued to my computer in my Mom’s basement like you and actually having a life, my plagiarizing, lying POS troll friend!

He better pay homage to algore, pronto.

Forget the homage! algore only takes cash & Visa!

The Jews under the Romans “rendered unto Caesar what was Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s. They were instructed to obey the government. Later, much later in 1947 the Jews now have their own country (for now) and they can now vote for laws.

We voted to make and change laws in the USA. Some may not be logical. We then still have the ability to change them by petition of redress or indirectly thru our elected representatives.

Had I shown up as an elected representative to the South Carolina Education Association as a white person, I would not have been seated. At the time, and I believe still now, there are strict quotas for representatives. I did not made a scene, but worked to change their rules. If I have time, I may ask the present President if those laws are still on the books and still enforced.

Obey the law or pay the consequence. Admit your error(s). I do and have. When asked about a year ago, I honestly told the trooper who fast I was going. I was given a warning, but would have gladly paid the fine.

This thread is not about “nit-picking” but about exposing the numerous idiotic rules, regulations and laws that exist to reduce our freedoms.

Does anyone remember the fine for accidentally picking up an Eagle feather a decade ago? I believe it was $10,000.

Oh self identified half wit, you haven’t a clue on just how far behind you are.

And yet,still miles ahead of you. Say goodnight, Gracie!

Poofy…..always a day late and “dallah shot”.

We could argue the merit of a boatload of laws that are on the books. But if this had been any of us schmucks that aren’t holders of office and were caught doing this we’d at a minimum get a lecture from law enforcement, more likely get a fine along with the possibility of paying for a hazmat team to clean up the mess and perhaps jail time. I doubt Obama knew of the EPA regulation, I’d say give him the lecture.

I think the problem here is you guys just aren’t familiar with Hawaiian culture.

As I said before….EVERYBODY who spreads their loved ones ashes to the sea does so without abiding by the law.

Every surfer who drowns has a ceremony about 300 yards of shore where we paddle out together, make a circle and performa ceremony before spreading ashes. We even did this in California.

It is always in the news papers and it is accepted by law enforcement as a cultural practice.

You all are just being a bunch of babies.

Michael Kowalczyk keeps his brother’s ashes in a handsome wooden box on a window seat in his Woodacre home, overlooking a leafy canyon.

The last time he saw his brother, Steve Kowalczyk, they were together at the Cafe Marmalade in Ross. That was last July, when Steve was on leave from the Army, a few months before he was to ship out for Iraq.

As they relaxed in the cafe, Steve told his older brother that he planned to settle down in West Marin when he came home from the war. Almost casually, he mentioned that, if for some reason he didn’t make it home, he wanted his ashes scattered in the ocean off Bolinas, where he used to surf.

Now go tell this guy to obey the law Reb.

John H. “Doc” Ball, at age 94, was the oldest living American surfer when he passed away in December of 2001. Throughout his final years, he continued to skateboard and surf without a wetsuit in Shelter Cove in Northern California. Doc had been riding waves since 1929 and wrote the classic photo book about early California surfing, CALIFORNIA SURFRIDERS (1946). A dentist and perhaps the best-known surf photographer who ever lived, he captured more classic surf images from the 1930s through the ’50s than any other photographer. He co-founded the State’s first surf club in Palos Verdes, was a great storyteller, a legend among surfers (and surf photographers) and a warm and generous spirit, who remained “stoked” about life until his final days. In addition to loving the ocean’s waves, he loved the camaraderie of surfing, beachcombing and gathering driftwood to carve. His woodcarving speciality was eagles. As the partriarch of American surfers, he opens and closes SURFING FOR LIFE. His ashes were spread at sea in dual memorials at both Shelter Cove and Palos Verdes Cove. Doc is survived by his wife, Evelyn and son Norm.

http://www.surfingforlife.com/surfers.html

Anyone who makes an issue of this is an asshat. You included.

Using this same logic, anyone who makes an issue out of a violation of the law by an elected official is also that funny hat…??

Well, it really does matter jackass. Besides, comparing speeding violations to this is wrong. POTUS does not drive the vehicle, the secrete service do and are aided by local police and state police. Plus, his safety needs to be added into the equation. Throwing trash into the ocean is in violation of current laws, and he should be fined.

atease

As much as i love this story, someone pointed out to me that Hawaii has different laws about dumping typical white people into the ocean.

I’m not sure that Hawaii can just trump the EPA, can they?

I think the problem here is you guys just aren’t familiar with Hawaiian culture.

As I said before….EVERYBODY who spreads their loved ones ashes to the sea does so without abiding by the law.

Sure. I don’t see anything wrong with it. I don’t see anything wrong with what Obama did.

I think the fact that what Obama did was illegal is illustrative of big, overbearing government.

I wish you liberals, up to and including Obama, would take a lesson from it.