Obama Looking To Bypass Filibuster To Pass Nationalized Health Care And Carbon Caps

Which sounds a bit like cheating to me, and not at all like the sort of unity, bi-partisanship and consensus-building Obama promised when campaigning for office.

President Obama’s budget director said the White House would consider using a Senate procedural tactic so that only 50 votes would be rquired to pass major healthcare and energy reforms.
Peter Orszag, the director of the Office of Management and Budget, said the administration would prefer not to use the budget reconciliation process to push through its package.
But he added: “We have to keep everything on the table. We want to get these…. important things done this year.” Orszag called healthcare in particular “the key to our fiscal future.”
Orszag made the comments on ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos.”
Because they can not be filibustered, budget reconciliations only require 50 votes to pass the Senate. Democrats hold strong majorities in Congress, but still come up short of the 60 votes necessary in the Senate to end debate, which makes it easier for Republicans to block legislation. House rules in comparison make it harder for the minority party to stop bills.
Still, using budget reconciliation to pass policy proposals is controversial, even among some Democrats who believe doing so strains Senate rules and tradition.
The Obama blueprint calls for major changes in both energy and healthcare policies that is likely to engender significant opposition from Republicans and business lobbies. The reforms are expect to win widespread support from Democrats and more left-leaning constituencies.

The policies Obama wants to push through Congress with this change in the rules are the nationalization of our health care system and the institution of a cap-and-trade system for carbon emissions that would have every industry in the country purchasing permission for production from the government. Now, given what a radical impact these policies would have on the way we live our lives and go about our business, shouldn’t they be subjected to the full rigors of our legislative process? Why should Obama get to set aside the rules to make it easier to impose his will on the rest of us?
Especially when he himself promised bi-partisanship? What is bi-partisan in lowering the bar for your legislation so that it can be ram-rodded through Congress by purely partisan votes?
Much like with the “stimulus” spending spree, Obama wants to implement his policy with as little debate and dissent as possible.

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  • 2Hotel9

    They can't get 60, so they change the rules. Funny, when the Republicans "changed" the rules they evened the playing field, when Democrats do it they fuck the American citizens.

    Imagine that.

  • robert108

    This newest pork spending bill is financial disaster. Obama's fascism is continuing to emerge.

  • Lioncourt

    How are they changing the rules? Maybe you should learn what the hell you are talking about.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    How are they changing the rules? Maybe you should learn what the hell you are talking about.

    Budgeting can't be filibustered. Carbon tax and health care nationalization are not part of the budgeting process.

    Try knowing what you're talking about.

  • Lioncourt

    The law outlines what the reconciliation process can be used for. If the bill meets those requirements it is not "changing the rules."

  • Buzz

    Sounds a lot like the last 8 years. Another Rove tactic, good thing we learned from the master of beguilement.

  • 2Hotel9

    The "stimulus" bill is meant to be an endrun around all the legislative "roadblocks" that Democrat earmarks have been facing throughout our history. The socialist wetdream of mass murder is so close they can taste.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    The law outlines what the reconciliation process can be used for. If the bill meets those requirements it is not "changing the rules."

    What you're talking about are the Senate rules. And they will have to be changed to allow this to happen.

    Your self-righteousness contrasted with your utter ignorance is humorous to me. Please, posted another outraged comment so I can laugh more.

  • jimmypop

    Sounds a lot like the last 8 years. Another Rove tactic, good thing we learned from the master of beguilement.

    yes, bush really pushed thru all those conservative ideals…. like tax reductions that dont expire, geting the feds out of state government, appointing ass loads of judges, small government, reduced spending, private ss…. yup, he really did his conservative best to do all those things…. er, wait… he didnt do any of that. gosh, he really didnt do anything except spend and make policy like a liberal.

  • Lioncourt

    Title 2 of the USC Section 644 states what reconciliation can be used for. It is not changing the rules.

    However if they did change the rules for a filibuster I would applaud them. The filibuster was never intended to be used so that every piece of legislation required 60 votes.

    A filibuster should require two things. A continuous speech by a group of Senators and the shutdown of all business. It lasts for as long as you can hold the floor and no other business gets done. Than there would be pressure for compromise.

  • 2Hotel9

    Yea, Rob. How many different times have the Senate and House Rules been posted, in full, on this blog? Not to mention the multitudinous times the legislative rules for NorDak Legislature.

    I remember putting US Senate Rules in threads twice since last spring, perhaps 4 times.

  • 2Hotel9

    Wow. What a pile of crap. Spew some more for us, this IS getting entertaining.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

    Which sounds a bit like cheating to me, and not at all like the sort of unity, bi-partisanship and consensus-building Obama promised when campaigning for office.

    Didn't you get the memo? That's O-V-E-R. He tried and got nowhere with the republican obstructionists so FUCK EM.

    The republicans have made it very clear that their only objective is to cause trouble, hope for failure and generally be ASSHOLES.

    As I've said before, they are lucky to be walking free much less being such jerks. If I was Obama, I would be starting trials for republicans, Wall Street and the bush administration. Followed by hangings, of course.

  • jimmypop

    A filibuster should require two things. A continuous speech by a group of Senators and the shutdown of all business.

    you think these tools actually should have to work for once? btw, i agree 100%.

    they suspend this rule because none of them want to really fight anything. they just want to make i look like they do. i can just see these guys and gals (each team) at private cocktail parties laughing their asses off at all of us. i cant wait for the swiss to tell us who has money over there…. i bet its LOTS of powerful people on both sides.

  • Lioncourt

    What you're talking about are the Senate rules.

    Title 2 of the USC Section 644 states what reconciliation can be used for.

    Any comment Rob? Or will you admit that you don't know what you are talking about?

    BTW, I didn't know what the reconciliation process was before this thread, but I looked it up. When will you start doing research for your posts?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Lioncourt, since you clearly didn't read the code you just referenced (and admitted that you didn't know you were talking about until you decided to ask Google), here's the link to the code itself.

    Now, keep in mind that what Obama wants to do is instead of putting nationalized health care of the cap and trade system out for a vote on its own merits instead wants to tack those radical policy moves onto a budget bill so that it can pass under budget reconciliation rules.

    While that's not explicitly illegal (a claim I never made) it is a departure from convention Senate rules (which, as I'm sure you don't know because you're not terribly bright, is different from USC) meaning that the rules would, in fact, be changing if they did this.

    They can do it. The question is whether or not they should.

    And of course they shouldn't because not only is that a shady way to effect policy (if we're all going to be forced to use government health care shouldn't it be voted on in a bill on its own merits?) it also represents a departure from Obama's own campaign promises about unity and bipartisanship.

    I know you care little, because you'll go along with whatever your Messiah wants, but do try to follow along.

  • http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

    Budgeting can't be filibustered. Carbon tax and health care nationalization are not part of the budgeting process.

    Try knowing what you're talking about.

    Good point Rob. Don't tell the dumbocrats that though, because they won't let facts get in the way… Can you imagine if Bush had done this the Media would be all over it. I think there is going to be a revolt against NOBAMA's rush towards a socialistic agenda. It will come back to bite them in the end.

  • http://Array Lioncourt

    While that's not explicitly illegal (a claim I never made) it is a departure from convention Senate rules (which, as I'm sure you don't know because you're not terribly bright, is different from USC) meaning that the rules would, in fact, be changing if they did this.

    What I am saying is that they do not have to change the Senate rules. Those were changed in 1974 when the reconciliation process was passed.

    While you didn't call it illegal, you claimed it was a change in the Senate rules. It isn't.

  • 2Hotel9

    Yes, it is a change in Senate Rules. Non-budgetary items CAN NOT BE BUNDLED INTO BUDGETARY LEGISLATION.

    If your shit can not stand a vote on its own it is not needed or wanted by the American people. Period.

  • Shadowboxer

    Why should Obama get to set aside the rules to make it easier to impose his will on the rest of us?

    (written by Rob above)

    you never claimed it was illegal, Rob, you claimed Obama was setting aside the rules. Obama is not and you are wrong on this point.

    Mr Hotel, your language gets pretty salty here, any particular reason why or is it just your nature?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    you never claimed it was illegal, Rob, you claimed Obama was setting aside the rules. Obama is not and you are wrong on this point.

    So then, you're saying it's common practice to tack massive policy changes onto budgets? Because that's going to shock the hell out of a lot of people, including many Democrats who are made uncomfortable by this.

    But what's interesting here is how Obama apologists have glommed onto this little disagreement over what does and does not constitute a rule change when the larger point here is that Obama doesn't want his policies to be voted on by themselves in the Senate.

    If Obama's policies are such great ideas, why can't they be passed through the normal Senate procedures like everything else that's non-budget related?

  • Shadowboxer

    Rob, quit trying to change your point. You made a factual error and are now trying to change the subject.

    This is a regular senate procedure, you just don't like it.

  • Lioncourt

    If Obama's policies are such great ideas, why can't they be passed through the normal Senate procedures like everything else that's non-budget related?

    Because the current Senate requires 60 votes for everything. They are the most obstructionist Senate of all time. They misuse the filibuster rule. I wish the Senate would just get rid of the filibuster and pass everything on a simple majority.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    This is a regular senate procedure, you just don't like it.

    Actually, inserting non-budgetary policy into the budgetary process is not regular procedure, especially for massive policy changes such as the ones Obama is proposing.

    I'm not wrong. You just don't know what you're talking about.

    Because the current Senate requires 60 votes for everything. They are the most obstructionist Senate of all time. They misuse the filibuster rule. I wish the Senate would just get rid of the filibuster and pass everything on a simple majority.

    I'm sure you do feel that way, though I doubt you would be saying the same thing if we were having this discussion a few years ago about Democrats using the filibuster to hold up Bush's judicial appointments.

    Like a typical liberal, you are a hypocrite.

    Anyway, by way of educating you guys, Wikipedia has a good run-down of the filibuster. To wit:

    Budget bills are governed under special rules called "reconciliation" which do not allow filibusters. Reconciliation once only applied to bills that would reduce the budget deficit, but since 1996 it has been used for all matters related to budget issues.

    The policy Obama is suggesting including in the budget process are not budget issues. Thus, this would in fact be a departure from normal Senate procedure.

    I know this outrages you guys because it makes your Messiah look like the arrogant jerk he is, but that's not my fault.

  • Shadowboxer

    I would think there would be some money allocated for those programs, so it is budgetary and could be passed in this manner.

  • robert108

    They misuse the filibuster rule.

    Actually, it's in the Constitution, so you're wrong. The Republican Party has the job of stopping this Marxist from screwing over our entire country with his greed for money and power. Personally, I think impeachment is the proper solution to this problem.

  • Lioncourt

    Actually, it's in the Constitution, so you're wrong.

    Are you high? Please quote the word filibuster in the Constitution.

    BTW, I did look it up:

    Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behavior, and, with the Concurrence of two-thirds, expel a Member.

    The word filibuster is not in the Constitution.

    More proof that you know nothing about the Constitution.

  • 2Hotel9

    Again, if your shit can not stand on its own and be passed by a simple vote America does not need it and the people of America don't want it. By changing Senate and House procedures and rules in order to sneak your shit through is not "regular senate procedure".

    My favorite part is these are the same crying, wailing leftards who would screech&nash; their teeth when W so much as spoke to members of the Senate and House outside the boundaries of Executive Branch guidelines.

    And yet they are simply ecstatic that Barri and his Admin are violating the procedural and operating rules and guidelines all other Presidents and their Admins have been required to operate within.

    And this,"I would think there would be some money allocated for those programs, so it is budgetary and could be passed in this manner.
    Shadowboxer on March 1, 2009 at 11:03 pm" is just too fucking funny. What a moron.

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