Does the government do anything cheaper than the free market?

Just about everything that isn’t tainted by conservatism like the military is.

Removing the profit motive in providing essential services is key to making them affordable. If the water systems were unregulated you’d pay $400 a month for it instead of a few bucks because you need it to live.

It’s been proven that publicly-owned utilities have cheaper rates. In Texas, where they totally deregulated electric rates, power costs are an average of 40 times higher than the national average.

Did all you people flunk Citizenship in Kindergarten? Do you not understand the concept of public good?

When these are privatized, like has happened in Britain, NZ, Australia, and others, the unit prices go up, and far faster than historical rates.

There’s a problem with this analysis. The costs of BOTH go up at the same rate. The problem is that the public system is so subsidized that the tax payer commitment is hard to point out. But the costs remain the same. Blantant dishonesty.

“estimate that we could take as much as $700 billion a year out of our health care system.”

And where did that number come from, out of your ass? Currently the government budgets close to 700 billion for medicare/medicaid. Universal health that covers everyone will add significantly to that number (about 2 trillion). Where is the government going to find money for that? Of course with increased taxes. So we will be trading health insurance costs for increased taxes with a decrease of health care availability. Looks like a lose-lose proposition to me.

“You might as well try stopping the sun from coming up if you think you can stop health care reform.”

So sayeth the welfare whore.

All civilized countries have universal health care.

You might as well try stopping the sun from coming up if you think you can stop health care reform.

Here dumbshit:

Just a few articles from a quick search that a chimp could understand.

Rates lower for public vs. private utility

Nationally, investor-owned utilities charged residential customers 10% more on average for electricity than public utilities in 2003, according to data compiled from the Department of Energy by the American Public Power Association, the trade association for publicly-owned utilities.

The Role and Performance of Public Power: Separating Fact from Ideology

Abstract: The debate over the role and performance of public power will not go away.^ Perhaps, however, the debate can occur at a level transcending pure ideological disputes. Certainly the evidence is clear. There is no legitimacy to the argument that public power lacks economic legitimacy. There is no legitimacy to the proposition that private power companies are inherently more efficient than their public power counterparts. Likewise, there is no legitimacy to the complaints that public power`s lower rates can be explained away by subsidies. Instead, the facts indicate that, on average, public power systems and their managers have been excellent stewards of the resources needed to produce electric service. Rather than ignoring these facts and resorting to questionable indirect proofs of why private utilities are likely to out-perform public ones, researchers should study first-hand the institutional arrangements under which public power systems operate and are held accountable for providing low-cost, high-quality service.

Texas Electricity Deregulation Leads to Highest Prices in the Nation

From today’s (July 27,2008) Wall Street Journal:

Texas had some of the cheapest power rates in the country when it zapped most of the state’s electric regulations six years ago, convinced that rollicking competition would drive prices even lower.

This summer, electricity there is some of the nation’s priciest.

Power costs are rising in the rest of the U.S., but everything is bigger in Texas: On a hot day in May, wholesale prices rose briefly to more than $4 a kilowatt hour — about 40 times the national average.

And djerk toddles in to tell us the government has the final authority on citizen’s healthcare.

Suite posted:

The government can fuck off. There’s G-d, me, and my doctor. They don’t even rank on that scale.

Except when it comes to a woman, her G-d and her doctor.

Dino:

You get more irrelevant by the day.

Looking in the mirror again?

Kenny: Are you assuming that the researchers who track these cost statistics are unaware of subsidies, if present?
If a local govt. spends $x on a utility, and there are y people that benefit from it, then the average cost per person is x/y.
Do you think the researchers are like: “They don’t pay for the schools/water directly so they must be free”?
Seriously man, you’re grasping.

ALL of the studies that Dino presented were beneficiary cost based. When you simply say “the bill is this”, you’re not being honest. Subsidies play a massive part, and no honest study shows the costs to be cheaper after subsidies.

You’re speculating Kenny. There are numerous studies done. There was some Aussie lady visiting my uni the other year presenting some of the research. The problem is that electricity, water, and health-care are highly inelastic commodities.

If you know that people have to use your good or service at almost any price, you’ll jack up the price. Any fool knows that.

The illusion of “universal” healthcare is the false promise that there are no limitations, and that there will be no rationing.
In the real world, everything is rationed, in one way or the other. With a private system, the rationing is done by the consumer, while with a govt system, the rationing is done by a bureaucrat who is completely removed from the transaction.
The present hybrid system has some choice for the consumer, but most of the choice is made by those not involved in the actual healthcare transaction. It’s the worst of both worlds; the govt interference raises prices by limiting supply, while the actual consumer pays, with little control over the actual care.

The truth is, the private sector kicks govt ass every time in providing sufficient supply to meet the demand. If not for the govt enabled monopoly by the AMA over doctor certification and training, the supply of doctors would rise to meet the demand, thus yielding the best price for what would truly be universal healthcare.

Again. See canada, Cuba, Britain, for what wonderful success stories nationalized health care has been. I just wonder why people fly to the USA for their treatments? Prolly because they didn’t get their ration.

If its better to be a slacker, then a hard worker, what motivation does one have to invent something that could change the world?

And if there is no motivation to succeeed, and the rich dwindle in our country, who do we have to tax to fund all this shit?

Innovations of capitalism

-internet
-The automobile
-new medical technology (most of which comes from capitalist -countries, namely the US)
-Travel to space, and to the moon
-the microwave
-preservatives for keeping food for longer periods of time
-Viagra
-TV
-Airplanes
-Assembly lines? (for you unappreciative union members who think you deserve to own GM you fucking idiots. I have extensive knowledge of your retirement plans, and you guys are spoiled lazy pieces of shit. No one retiring at age 50 should have a 3000/month pension, working at a god damned factory.)
-Electricity
-Heh…. blogging…. (yep, no blogging with out capitalism people
-The ambiguosly gay duo (thats for you Dino, without demand for comedy, who would have come up with that shit….)

Results of socialism…..

One major step made by Russia… Sputnik (gotta give full disclosure, but even then, we did it shortly after, and better)

Other then that?

-Starvation
-Oppression
-economic stagnation, and depression
-death
-disease
-extreme concentrations of wealth in merely a handful of people. ( You think its like this now, but in China, you could prolly count on your hands who controls most of the wealth… OK, maybe not quite, but compared to the population size its ridicuolous)
-Lower standard of living for everyone
-Currecny deflation
-lack of choice on education, as well as consumables like food for example.

What do you find better?

Subsidies play a massive part, and no honest study shows the costs to be cheaper after subsidies.

The subsidies are more prevalent on the private side.

AV is right, you are grasping. Your theology has been challenged, the mantra of your failed ideology, “public bad, private good” trotted out like fingers in the ears of a toddler saying, “I can’t hear you!”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Brilliant response.

Barri’s Admin has told us, in 4 different press conferences, that healthcare will be rationed. Now spin&twirl; and lie some more.

You sound like you’re already drunk.

You posted that yesterday. Don’t you remember?

Ah, the Alzheimer’s.

That is because the utilities are usually run as separate companies which do not receive subsidies.

That’s nonsense and we both know it. (Perhaps subsidize was a poor word choice, instead of funding. But I figured you’d be an adult and know what I meant, especially since I explained it, instead of playing word games.)

Looking at Oregon alone, they have a Public Utility Commission who’s mission statement is:

The Public Utility Commission of Oregon (PUC) regulates customer rates and services of the state’s investor-owned electric, natural gas and telephone utilities; and certain water companies.

Now, the PUC alone is an extra layer of tax payer funding that we can look at, but the mission statement alone says it. They decide what’s “fair”. And when the companies need money, the state funds them. There is absolutely no truth to the idea that they don’t get government funds.

So, the raise in fees when a utility in privitized is the utility trying to make money, vs. the public utility that doesn’t. Again, it’s IDENTICAL to the public vs. private school example. The parent doesn’t have to pay a monthly bill to send their child to school, but the education is clearly not free.

The subsidies are more prevalent on the private side.
AV is right, you are grasping. Your theology has been challenged, the mantra of your failed ideology, “public bad, private good” trotted out like fingers in the ears of a toddler saying, “I can’t hear you!”

My theology HASN’T been challenged. There was an extremely lame study posted that said, in it’s entirety, customers pay less for the service, therefore it’s cheaper. This. Is. Bogus. When privitization occurs, costs go up because the new company finds out that the utility was (almost always) being run on negative profit. The government doesn’t care if it makes money, after all.

When I pointed to the school system as a good parallel, both you and AV put YOUR fingers in YOUR ears, and started changing the subject.

The present system already rations on the ability to pay. Even if you have benefits the decisions are usually decided by an MBA at an insurance compant or private benefits provider.

Old people on Medicare get fine health care. If they want top flight BMW health care they can always pay for the additional coverage themselves. You’ll be able to do that too if you find the care substandard. If conservatives get a hold of the system, you probably will.

Removing the profit motive in providing essential services is key to making them affordable. If the water systems were unregulated you’d pay $400 a month for it instead of a few bucks because you need it to live.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

In the end the fact remains, Barri’s healthcare experts keep telling America that healthcare will be rationed. Oop, there it is.

You posted that yesterday. Don’t you remember?
Dino2 on April 28, 2009 at 08:04 am

Of course I remember, your illness and the depressing place you live is a daily occurrence. Don’t you remember??

You get more irrelevant by the day.
Dino2 on April 28, 2009 at 07:24 am

I see you still have that mirror next to your computer.

Bo the main article I like, thank you!