Home Mobile Archives Reader Blogs Register Login

Thursday, March 29, 2007

North Dakota Local Taxes

Yesterday I wrote a post responding to a post on Tom Dennis’s Blog.  Tom is the Editor of the Grand Forks Herald’s Editorial page.  Tom didn’t agree with everything I had written and wrote a rebuttal.  I had some major disagreements with his post yesterday but I think that maybe we aren’t all that far apart in what he wrote today.

If local property taxes are such an outrageous burden, why do North Dakota voters so consistently elect “status quo” council and school-board members?  Why isn’t there a majority of tax-cut advocates on the Grand Forks School Board, the Grand Forks City Council or anywhere else?

The answer there is two fold.  First of all property taxes have historically been tolerable.  Nobody likes to pay property taxes but plenty of people like the government to spend money on them.  Up until a few years Grand Forks had a pretty good balance.  However in recent years the city has been increasing spending much faster than the rate of inflation.  That means that the unreasonable tax burden is a relatively new thing.

The other thing is that the big spenders have had the effrontery to actually blame the state legislature for their irresponsible spending growth.  The local taxing entities in the larger cities (city, school boards, county and in some places the park board) have increased their spending while local property values have gone up.  They didn’t need to.  But they thought they would get away with it because they weren’t increasing the tax rate.  Of course the average tax payer doesn’t give a hoot what the tax rate is, they care about their tax bill that has been going up much faster than their income. 

The voters are just becoming worked up over the issue of rising property taxes.  However there’s a bit of confusion due to the misdirection being played by the big spenders.  At the end of his post Dennis says that the voters are proud to pay for the services that they are receiving.  If that were the case then the spenders wouldn’t be blaming the folks at the state for taxes going sky-high.

There is a lot of confusion about property taxes.  I’ve talked to a city council member who says he get’s the blame for the high property taxes when the city only gets 22% of the property taxes.  Maybe the local media could cover the spending issue.

My basic point is that if taxpayers in Grand Forks or anywhere else are upset about local property taxes, then those taxpayers should throw the rascals out.  Voters should send packing the local school board, City Council and other officials who’re making their taxes go up.

And isn’t that a better and fairer method of disciplining those officials than the one being debated in Bismarck, in which state lawmakers will “channel” taxpayers’ supposed outrage and limit city and school-district tax-and-spenders from on high? 

I actually agree with Tom Dennis’s solution. Hold the local elected officials responsible.  However the state legislature feels obligated to bail out the local taxpayers.  But they’re smart enough to realize that if they do that it will take the pressure off of the locals to hold the line on spending.  This is like paying off the teenager’s credit card.  Unless you impose some kind of discipline the kids going to keep spending and spending. 

Dennis pointed out that maybe things aren’t all bad: 

“North Dakota’s State/Local Tax Burden Among Nation’s Lowest.” North Dakota is 37th in the nation;

I think that’s a bit misleading.  Is Dennis claiming that property taxes haven’t been climbing at twice the rate of inflation.  In fact according to a story in his paper local property tax bills went up 7.6 last December!  I have a question.  Did our services we received actually go up 7.6% last year?

The other thing is that North Dakota is one of the most rural states.  The problem with out of control property taxes is in the large cities where property values have climbed.  From what I can tell smaller localities have been fairly responsible.

I don’t think you can claim that property taxes in Grand Forks are low by referring to state-wide data.

And maybe we’re just used to being a low tax state and we want to keep it that way.

Comments

Don’t most people in North Dakota get some sort of government check or benefit that they have an irrational fear of losing and if they do lose it, will then have to resort to earning a living in the productive, private sector?(their own worst nightmare)

Kevin on March 29, 2007 at 07:33 pm

Kevin speak for yourself.  I’m a tax payer, hopefully not the only one.


The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on March 29, 2007 at 07:47 pm

Everyone pays taxes, but how many collect more from taxpayers(directly and indirectly)than they pay in?

Kevin on March 29, 2007 at 07:55 pm

Everyone pays taxes, but how many collect more from taxpayers(directly and indirectly)than they pay in?

That is a good point.


check out Goon’s World

http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/

Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck

http://redneckndgoon.blogspot.com/

goon on March 29, 2007 at 09:31 pm
Avatar for Dustin Gawrylow

The solution is not for the legislature to impose caps on cities, counties, school boards, and park district.

The solution is elect new people on city councils, county commissions, school boards, and park district boards that will keep things under control there and not cave to the emotional appeal of their good friend who is the principal at the school.

The State Legislature has no business rebating a tax the state did not collect in the first place.

Dustin Gawrylow on March 29, 2007 at 09:33 pm

I agree with you DG.  But since the state is going to rebate the taxes they didn’t collect they need to attach some strings.


The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on March 30, 2007 at 02:32 am
Avatar for Rally

I’m really sick of people making excuses and shifting the blame of higher property taxes on to other people, entities, different levels of government (state, fed). There is a problem, fix it, quit pointing fingers.

I also get sick of the GF Herald’s constant argument of “if you don’t like it, vote the rascals out”.  I’m definitely in agreement with that, but how about saying a lot of people are fed up with the huge increase of property taxes and the local government entities should do something about it.  I have no problem paying my share of property taxes, but the huge increases over the last several years are starting to really become a concern.

Rally on March 30, 2007 at 06:50 am
Rob
Rob
17182 comments
Send a private message

Quite right, Rally.

Here on SA we’ve noted that education spending, which is done mostly at the local level funded by our property taxes, has gone up some $300,000,000 over the last 20 years (adjusted for inflation) while the number of students our schools are actually educating has gone down by some 15,000.

Nobody seems to want to ask why that is.


The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on March 30, 2007 at 06:54 am

but the huge increases over the last several years are starting to really become a concern.

And they show no signs of abating.


The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on March 30, 2007 at 07:04 am

Rob the reason the collection for taxes has gone up for education is the left never thinks it gets enough for education, they are always asking for more. Minnesota has the same problem with their left wing.


check out Goon’s World

http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/

Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck

http://redneckndgoon.blogspot.com/

goon on March 30, 2007 at 08:05 am

Goon, there’s no amount of money that will ever be enough to satisfy the teachers unions.

It’s like the colleges, the more money they get the more the spend and the more they demand.

With public education the idea seems to be that if we pay the same guys more money somehow we’ll get a different result.

In North Dakota being a college educator is about the best job you can get.  Are they satisfied.

North Dakota schools are pretty good, but I’m still doing a lot of primary teaching to my kids.  Is more money going to make a difference?  Will it satisfy the NEA?

I doubt it.


The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on March 30, 2007 at 08:31 am

I was wondering how long it would take before we got to the NATIONAL EXTORTION AGENCEY


check out Goon’s World

http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/

Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck

http://redneckndgoon.blogspot.com/

goon on March 30, 2007 at 09:00 am

Years ago Forbes magazine ran an expose of the NEA under that title.


The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on March 30, 2007 at 09:30 am

Goon, there’s no amount of money that will ever be enough to satisfy the teachers unions.

It’s like the colleges, the more money they get the more the spend and the more they demand.

With public education the idea seems to be that if we pay the same guys more money somehow we’ll get a different result.

Whistler I agree then they Democrats complain that the GOP is underfunding education if we don’t fund it to their level that have requested. I am sick and tired of hearing people saying that its out duty to pay taxes and we should feal honored to be doing so.


check out Goon’s World

http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/

Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck

http://redneckndgoon.blogspot.com/

goon on March 30, 2007 at 01:27 pm

And how much more funding is it going to be until they think it’s enough?

Take Grand Forks again.  Enrollment is way down but they’re spending way more.

Now the choices that have to be made aren’t easy, but that is their jobs.


The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on March 30, 2007 at 01:34 pm
Page 1 of 1        

Post a Comment


Before commenting, please recite:

Grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Name   
Email   
URL   
Human?
  
 

Upload Image    

Remember my personal information

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Note: Notifications will only be sent to confirmed email addresses.