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Tuesday, January 23, 2007

North Dakota Legislator Proposes Abortion Ban

Only to take effect should Roe vs. Wade be overturned.

Today marked the 34th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision the Supreme Court ruling that effectively legalized abortion in this country.

And today North Dakota legislators looked at issues relating to abortion.

Representative Jim Kerzman is sponsoring a bill that bans abortion in all cases except when required to save a woman’s life.

However, it would only take affect if the U-S Supreme Court were to overturn its Roe v. Wade ruling.

I’m happy to see this law introduced in the legislature, and I hope it is both taken seriously and passed by our legislators.  Rep. Dan Ruby is, according to the article, proposing additional legislation that would make aborting a baby equivalent to murder.  One would hope that both of these laws would pass, one to ban the practice and the other to add consequences to ignoring the ban.

With public opinion on Roe shifting it’s high time the states began to send a message saying, like it or not, the right to determine the legality of abortion should be at the state level.  I’d actually would have liked to see this law made effective immediately so that it could act as a potential legal foil for Roe at the Supreme Court, but perhaps Rep. Kerzman is afraid of trying the state up in what would undoubtedly be a long legal struggle with pro-abortion activists.

Regardless, the main criticism of this law seems to be that it includes no exceptions for rape or incest.

Opponents of the bill say it leaves no options for women who are victims of rape or incest.

I’ve never been persuaded by the idea that there should be exceptions for rape or incest.  For one thing, the people who usually put forth this argument are being ingenuine.  Since most of them are in favor of abortion at any term of the pregnancy for any reason at all the rape or incest exception is simply a talking point.  A monkey wrench to be thrown into any concerted effort to halt the abominable practice they support.

For another, a principled stand on abortion cannot include exceptions for rape or incest.  Far too many paint opposition to abortions in instances of rape and/or incest as being an “extremist” position, but that just isn’t so. For someone who is pro-life and believes that an abortion is the taking of an innocent life there is no very convincing argument to allow for abortions in instances of rape or incest, but not any other time. An innocent life is an innocent life, whether that life was conceived by an act of hatred or love, and while the idea of a mother carrying to term a child conceived when she was raped is abhorrent, it pales in comparison to the idea of that child being killed before it has a chance to live.

Comments

I agree.  Rape and incest are definitely unfortunate, but killing a baby really isn’t going to fix things.

In my opinion, the only time an abortion should be allowed is to save the life of the mother.  Not just for “health reasons,” or whatever that argument is, but actually to save her life.


"No Sane man will dance.”—Cicero

Daniel on January 23, 2007 at 08:14 am
Avatar for ec99

The genie’s out of the botle, has been for decades.  Roe v Wade is not going to be overturned.

ec99 on January 23, 2007 at 05:26 pm

The genie’s out of the botle, has been for decades.  Roe v Wade is not going to be overturned.

Give me a break. Judicial decisions don’t last forever.

Roe vs. Wade needs to be overturned for the good of the nation. We live in a representative republic, not a judicial oligarchy. We need help if that genie is out of the bottle and won’t be overturned. Who do you want making your laws? You? Or nine black robes?

likwidshoe on January 23, 2007 at 06:05 pm
Avatar for ausblog

World estimations of the number of terminations carried out each year is somewhere between 20 and 88 million.(likely 55 to 60)

Over 3,500 per day / Over 1.3 million per year in America alone.

50% of that 1.3 million claimed failed birth control was to blame.

A further 48% had failed to use any birth control at all.

And 2% had medical reasons.

That means a staggering 98% of unwanted pregnancies may have been avoided had an effective birth control been used.

People have to stop using abortion as birth control.

People should be able to choose to use birth control, to avoid having to make another choice.

I’d like to see effective birth control made available to all who can’t afford it.

ausblog on January 23, 2007 at 06:11 pm

I’d like to see effective birth control made available to all who can’t afford it.

It is.

likwidshoe on January 23, 2007 at 06:21 pm
Avatar for whatever

People have to stop using abortion as birth control.

You state that as though the answer is obvious. Why’s it matter if people terminate unborn children through abortion or contraception?
whatever on January 23, 2007 at 10:53 pm

Why’s it matter if people terminate unborn children through abortion or contraception?

Contra, for those few who might not know, means “against.” Contraception isn’t killing a baby, it’s preventing (working against, as it were) the baby from being conceived in the first place.


"No Sane man will dance.”—Cicero

Daniel on January 23, 2007 at 11:15 pm

whoops, meant to block quote that first sentence.


"No Sane man will dance.”—Cicero

Daniel on January 23, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Avatar for ausblog

Got something for you Dan,

I have found some evidence that proves that a fetus is a living human being.......

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act is a United States law which defines violent assault committed against pregnant women as being a crime against two persons:  the woman and the fetus she carries.

This law was passed in 2004 after the murder of the then pregnant Laci Peterson and her fetus, Connor Peterson.

And this,

The “born alive” rule is a legal principle that holds that various aspects of the criminal law, such as the statutes relating to homicide and to assault, apply only to a child that is “born alive”. Recent advances in the state of medical science have led to court decisions that have overturned this rule, and in several jurisdictions statutes have been explicitly framed or amended to include unborn children.

The born alive rule was originally a principle at common law in England that was carried to the United States. Its original basis was that because of the (then) state of medical science and because of the rate of still births and miscarriages, it was impossible to determine whether a child would be a living being. This inability to determine whether a child in the womb was in fact alive, and would be successfully born, had ramifications with respect to the laws relating to assault and to homicide. (It is not possible to kill a child that has already died, for example.) Thus the act of a live birth was taken to be the point at which it could be reliably determined, in law, that the various laws applied.[1][2]

However, advances in the state of the art in medical science, including ultrasonography, foetal heart monitoring, and foetoscopy, have since made it possible to determine that a child is alive within the womb, and as a consequence many jurisdictions, in particular in the United States, have taken steps to supplant or abolish this common law principle.[1]

As of 2002, 23 states in the United States still employed the rule, to lesser or greater extent.[2]

The abolition of the rule has proceeded piecemeal, from case to case and from statute to statute, rather than wholesale. One such landmark case with respect to the rule was Commonwealth vs. Cass, in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, where the court held that the stillbirth of an eight-month-old foetus, whose mother had been injured by a motorist, constituted vehicular homicide. By a majority decision, the Supreme Court of Massachusetts held that the foetus constituted a “person” for the purposes of the Massachusetts statute relating to vehicular homicide. In the opinion of the justices, “We think that the better rule is that infliction of perinatal injuries resulting in the death of a viable foetus, before or after it is born, is homicide.

ausblog on January 24, 2007 at 05:48 am

Looks like ausblog’s comment is something I should have tacked onto the end of mine.  I have no problem with people trying to prevent the baby from being conceived; but once conception takes place, you’ve got yourself another human being, and deliberately ending it’s life through abortion is murder.


"No Sane man will dance.”—Cicero

Daniel on January 24, 2007 at 08:06 am
Avatar for ausblog

Daniel you can use anything, anything you want on another post if you want.I found my last piece @Wikipedia.
Heres some of my own stuff, pull it to bits, make it your own,

World estimations of the number of terminations carried out each year is somewhere between 20 and 88 million.(likely 55 to 60)

Over 3,500 per day / Over 1.3 million per year in America alone.

50% of that 1.3 million claimed failed birth control was to blame.

A further 48% had failed to use any birth control at all.

And 2% had medical reasons.

That means a staggering 98% of unwanted pregnancies may have been avoided had an effective birth control been used.

I am a 98% pro-lifer, 2% Pro-choicer, who has no religious convictions at all . I didn’t need the fear of god or anything else to come to my decision, just a good sense of what is right and wrong.
You see we were all once a fetus. Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that when your mother first learned she was carrying you, she may have considered her options? What if she had decided to terminate? Would that have been OK?
You would not exist, if you have children they would not exist, and your (husband or wife) would be married to someone else. You would have been deprived of all your experiences and memories. In this day and age with terminations being so readily available and so many being carried out, if you make it to full term you can consider yourself lucky.
Lucky you had a mother that made the choice of life for you.

Don’t you think they all deserve the same basic human right, LIFE?

At the point of conception is when life began for you. This was the start of your existence. Your own personal big bang. Three weeks after conception heart started to beat. First brain waves recorded at six weeks after conception. Seen sucking thumb at seven weeks after conception.

Though it pains me to say it , there may always be a need for the 2% medical reasons and such, but that’s all.

So how do we get the other 98% to be responsible...................

How do we get them to be honest with themselves, about when life begins.

egg+sperm = human being

Sadly many prefer an occasional abortion, over using birth control, they have all kinds of reasons, each of them selfish.

Then there’s the christian impossition,and their men in high places.(all a bit talibanish, church and state should never entwine) their stance against birth control has only added to the numbers.

People should be able to choose to use birth control, to avoid having to make another choice.

I’d like to see effective birth control made available to all who can’t afford it.

Sanity must provale, abortions should remain available and safe to the 2% and such, and the rest need to have a good look at themselves and get their act together.

I’d also like to see a 4D ultrasound in every clinic to provide a more informed choice,
before going through with something they may regret.

If you think the point of conception is NOT when life begins, and all you have is a clump of cells and not a living human being.
Then at least concider this -

Soon after you were conceived you were no more than a clump of cells.
This clump of cells was you at your earliest stage, you had plenty of growing to do but this clump of cells was you none the less.
Think about it.
Aren’t you glad you were left unhindered.... to develope further.
Safe inside your mother’s womb until you were born.

Want to know how to find humanity-?

True humanity can only be achieved, by concidering others/ caring about others, as much as, if not more than yourself.

Until we do we are no more than an uncivilisation,

with all the uncivilised things that we do…

.....................................................

There once existed a law upholding the notion that African-Americans weren’t really human beings. Did that make it so? Did they only become fully human when those laws were overturned?

And now you have laws that say that abortion isn’t murder.

.....................................................

ausblog on January 25, 2007 at 11:33 pm
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