Say Anything Blog

Maybe the rock head legislature needs to do a bit of research before they regulate a business they know nothing about.  According to the owner he would buy from domestic sources if they are available but they aren’t.  Maybe in Bismarck they think that we can grow grapes suitable for wine making in North Dakota but that’s not the case.

Easy there ....  I sponsored the bill (I think) that regulated domestic wineries.  It was never envisioned to cover a place like this. 

Actually there ARE grapes and other fruits raised in ND that are used to make wines.

http://www.mapleriverwinery.com/

This is the type of winery we were trying to encourage with the domestic producer provision of the alcohol tax code. 

Having said that, the state should find a way to make self brew places feasible.

It would be interesting to know how much of the change in policy had to do with ATF regulations.

There are no warning signs on the road less traveled.

Whistler, just keep your head down and do whatever the commissars say.

They know far more about how to run a business (into the ground) than your average, helpless Joe on the street who needs his hand held all the time.

This is an example of what’s wrong all over the country.

Actually there ARE grapes and other fruits raised in ND that are used to make wines.

I was aware that we had a winery or two but I assumed they had a limited offering due to our growing conditions.  It seems that this type of business has to be able to offer the wine ingredients that customers want rather than what they can get from around here.

According to the story they tried to find relief from the legislature but didn’t get it.  I guess they were too busy mismanaging the budget to help.

It’s interesting that the ATF audited them and found them in violation of the state law.

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According to the story they tried to find relief from the legislature but didn’t get it.  I guess they were too busy mismanaging the budget to help.

It could be there was resistance from alcohol retailers. If I bought a merlot from Happy Harry’s, that wine would be taxed, so why wouldn’t a merlot at Vintner’s Cellar?  Without the specifics, it’s hard to say, but it is disappointing that a solution couldn’t be worked out.

There are no warning signs on the road less traveled.

But if you made your merlot at home it wouldn’t be taxed. 

Is it that different for a business to offer to help someone make their own?

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Gilby Guy, why exactly do we need to make it tough to open up a winemaking business in North Dakota.

Is there some kind of federal requirement that we can only approve a “domestic winery” and not a real one?

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As I remember it ... (It’s been a few years) Most of it dealt with taxation and where the tax was assessed.  There was also problems with distribution agreements.  Manufacturers have to run their finished product through a beverage wholesaler who then sells it to a retailer. 

The Marketing agreements are very limiting.  For example, I believe it is illegal for a ND Bar to buy liquor from a Minnesota wholesaler.

The change we made to encourage domestic wineries was targeted to small operations (they were limited to the number of bottles they could sell in a year)that used ND crops.

Don’t get me wrong.  The state should work this problem out.

There are no warning signs on the road less traveled.

Don’t get me wrong.  The state should work this problem out.

And I appreciate the insight and retract any “rock head” comments as it pertains to you. 

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Heh .... Oh I’ve had rock head moments, fer sure.  But the legislation we worked on did effectively encourage domestic wineries.  The Problem came because we did not anticipate operations like Vintner’s Celler and how they would (or should) fit in the mix.

There are no warning signs on the road less traveled.

Sounds like another one of those “unintended consequences” the legislature likes to claim.

For example, I believe it is illegal for a ND Bar to buy liquor from a Minnesota wholesaler.

I should say so!  Obviously without a rule like that to there would be anarchy and chaos and looting and other terrible things that I can’t spell.

Good thing that the consumer is protected from lower prices.

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Gosh, imagine that a winery, a product for elite liberals to sip on at their uppity ski resorts and such, can’t make it in a redneck state like ND. What a shock, maybe National Geog can do a story on that, and ND can have another heart attack about how the liberal mags are trashing the poor little NDers.

Here’s basically how the process worked.  You taste a wine there… you decide to “make” it… they give you all the ingredients right in the store… you dump them in the pot… they do the rest.

It was hardly a “make-it-yourself” wine.  But, at the same time, it was still kinda fun.

Gosh, imagine that a winery, a product for elite liberals to sip on at
their uppity ski resorts and such, can’t make it in a redneck state like
ND.

Is having a red neck even possible in North Dakota?

wind burn.

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Osowski maintains that when he started the business, the tax commissioner’s office determined that wines sold to customers making wine for their own personal or family use were exempt from state excise and alcoholic beverage taxes.

cut and dry then. the dude provides evidence of this decision… and then it becomes a matter of whether or not the person who made that decision could in fact make those decisions.
we really do need people to pay taxes. then we can have nice roads that WE pay for that the govvy can sell to foreigners on the cheap who can then charge us tolls on the roads that we paid to build.
furthermore, we need to pay crack addicted women to put in IUDs. don’t want to have kids, the government will give you crack money for free!

Here’s basically how the process worked…

Brenarlo made his own Ripple and Boones Farm there.

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So, the next time the legislature meets maybe they will propose this solution. Create another government program where the state would purchase all the wine made with local ingredients that did not sell. The wineries could make the product as the state demands and when very few people buy the wine, the state would step in amd buy all the unsold wine. This template is used for other (farm) programs. It is only taxpayer’s money, right? And aren’t we just ATM machines that the state can just take money out of when they want?

This is a very sad situation.  Someone with some brains in Bismarck needs to not let this business close.  I have used Vintners many many times...When I make a batch of wine...I actually make and bottle the wine..
I purchase the items, I pitch the yeast.  They merely store the fermenting wine and sell me the bottles, corks, lables etc…
as a photographer I would make several batches of wine and I would give the bride and groom several bottles with a photo-lable and the date of the wedding...often times they would order more for relatives etc...it was not only a nice gesture from the photographer but it also was a money maker…

...if that is the law, then the law is an ass......

I’m not understanding why the wine made at this business needs to be taxed.  Is it simply because it exists?

I’m actually getting a little tired of being told by legislators that something must be taxed simply because it is not already taxed.  What we need to do is roll back to the tax code until the government gets its revenues from a small number of economic/social activities.

This “tax anything that moves” approach is dragging the entire country down.

The war against illegal plunder has been fought since the beginning of the world. But how is… legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay … If such a law is not abolished immediately it will spread, multiply and develop into a system.

Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob
This “tax anything that moves” approach is dragging the entire country down.

This is worse in ND than many states.  Oh there are worse states but ND should take a look at it neigbors for clues. 

SD is pretty biz friendly.  MN not so much but they get biz anyway MT and WY are great.

ND is it’s own socialist republic in the middle of the north that doesn’t exist to most of the USA. 

Taxing anything that moves isn’t helping much.

My tax burden in IL is less than it was in ND.  Income, Sale, Use and other.  When I had enterprises in ND and IL and had to file in both states I would always favor IL because the rate was almost a third less at that time.  I haven’t had that for about 10 years since I sold my biz in ND.

the AVATAR
Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this could be their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce. 
And they go down fighting.

We certainly wouldn’t want to let actual facts get in the way of a really good drama, would we.

Ask yourself, please: Is Osowski the only person in North Dakota who owns a business like this? Why doesn’t Vintners in Bismarck have any problems???

If one one person raises a stink, is there really a problem? Why aren’t all the other owners screaming with him? Did it ever occur to any of that you Osowski is the problem? Of course not, because we wouldn’t want to let facts get in the way of a good drama.

ND has contempt for small business. They’d rather have big businesses to shake down.

I was going to update this.  According to the Biz blog at the GF Herald the tax department decided they didn’t have to run them out of business afterall.

I guess the law didn’t mean what they said it meant.

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And yes, winemaking is a unique business in North Dakota.  That’s not surprising when you think about it.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

That should be winemaking on this type of business.  Winemaking on any scale is rare, but not unknown in ND.

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drama - Did it ever occur to any of that you Osowski is the problem? Of course not, because we wouldn’t want to let facts get in the way of a good drama.

Well then - what are the facts?

You talked a good game and then failed to back it up. All you gave us was drama.

Winemaking on any scale is rare, but not unknown in ND.

There IS plenty of whine making in the Nd. legislature and their constituents in the lazy, greedy education cabal!

likwidshoe - I did give you facts - re-read the post.

Osowski states he owns the GF and Fargo Vintners. So he must not own the Bismarck Vintners. Do you ever here that owner complaining about how the state treats him? His business seems to be doing just fine. Is the state really into torturing small businesses? There are many small businesses in ND that seem to do fine. I don’t see any of them carrying on about cruel and unusual punishment. Papers love drama because it sells so if there were other businesses being treated so unfairly, they should take this opportunity to add their story. I don’t see any other wineries complaining either. Why aren’t the other wineries standing up next to Osowski and clamoring how poorly they are treated by the state?

It is a sad state when people blindly believe what they read without even thinking it through.

I posted an update with links where the government admitted they were wrong in this matter this morning. 

Sorry drama, you’re all wet.

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