North Dakota Taxpayer Dollars Are Being Used For Overtly Political Purposes

“If Measure 2 passes North Dakota will go from a position of envy to a laughing stock.”

That’s what North Dakota Association of Counties staffer Terry Traynor told a convention in Bismarck recently, talking about the constitutional measure which will be on the June ballot to abolish property taxes. Mr. Traynor and his organization have been outspoken in opposition to the measure.

Now, we’ve debated Measure 2 at length here on SAB. I, personally, am for it. I know that many of you are not. But setting that argument aside for a moment, we should ask whether or not it is appropriate for a group like the NDAC to be weighing in on an issue like this given that they’re funded by taxpayer dollars.

Some twenty counties belong to this association, using our tax dollars to pay their membership fees. The NDAC would argue that just a small part of their revenue comes from the taxpayers. Regardless of whether or not that’s true, that they get any taxpayer dollars at all makes their political activities in opposition to a constitutional measure inappropriate.

Taxpayer dollars should not go to political groups. The NDAC, given that it regularly engages in advocacy, should no more get taxpayer dollars than the National Rifle Association. It’s just not appropriate. Especially given that, in the case of groups like the NDAC, what we get is taxpayer funds going to lobbyists who, in turn, lobby the government for more government.

And why do political subdivisions like counties need lobbyists for anyway? Do these counties not have commissioners? Do the cities not have mayors? Are there not legislators who represent these areas? Isn’t it their job to see to the needs of the constituencies they represent, and to communicate those needs and wishes to other levels of government?

The NDAC is hardly the only group that benefits mightily from taxpayer dollars. According to the state’s spending database, the Chamber of Commerce (also very active in political advocacy) has received over $450,000 in dues payments from state agencies since 2007.

That sort of thing is inexcusable, and I write that as someone who agrees with the Chamber of Commerce on most issues.

The debate over Measure 2 will rage on until the matter is settled on the June ballot, but whatever the outcome of that vote we need to take a long and hard look at some of the groups and associations that get “dues” payments from the government only to turn around and actively engage in advocacy.

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  • Anonymous

    I don’t think governments should be members of any
    private groups. This is nothing more than a money laundering scheme.

  • Anonymous

    Bipartisan corruption sounds fair to me, but is it necessary?

  • wj

    Lobbying is nothing more than providing information and opinions to policymakers.  Using taxpayer funds may sound bad, but the alternative could be worse.  It would amount to a gag rule on the very people with the most expertise.  Business legislation without hearing from those most impacted through the Chamber of Commerce?  Oil legislation without hearing from the oil companies (which receive tax incentives)?  That just doesn’t make sense.

    If you prohibited the voices of everyone who receives any type of tax money or break, very few people would be allowed to lobby – and important voices would be missing.

    Ultimately, this is a free speech and association issue.  People have a right to petition their government and they have the right to do it through associations.

    One can limit government employees or maybe even government agencies from lobbying, but when you start trying to cut off any voice from any person or organization that remotely receives tax benefits, you run into some serious free speech issues.

    • Anonymous

      Taxes are collected through force.  Tax breaks are just returning money to the people who earned it.

      I think there is a law that prohibits government agenticies lobbying or spending money on political issues.  Like an agency cannot promote a measure or senator during an election.  Same goes for churches or they risk losing their NPO status.  How is the government any different?  I would think that the Game & Fish being a member of the NRA would raise some eye brows and even some law suits.

      • Anonymous

        “I think there is a law that prohibits government agenticies lobbying or spending money on political issues.”

        Either there is a la or there isn’t.
        Which one is it Mr. Headward?

      • Anonymous

         ”Taxes are collected through force.’

        When was the last time you refused to pay taxes and the tax collector and his minions beat you to submission?
        Did they use electrodes tied to your testicles and shoot bursts of 110V current through your body?
        In short, recount the force, and amount of force used to collect taxes from you.

        • DaveH63

          Try not paying your property taxes. They won’t use force unless you call a sheriff’s sale force. That must be why the sheriff carries a gun. So he doesn’t have to use force.

          • Anonymous

            Sure. The authorities will sell off your property after all due process of the current laws is/are exhausted.
            You are given your day in court, and it is incumbent upon you to show why you are exempt from taxation.

            PS: The Sheriff’s sidearm is for his and your protection.
            There are a lot of knuckleheads out there.
            For those opposed to paying taxes to Uncle Sam, the various states and their multitude of subdivisions, there always exist these two options:
            1) Do not cower and pay, but go to jail and show the world that the United States is being hypocritical because it indeed has debtors jails, while claiming the opposite.
            2) Emigrate to Afghanistan. Last I heard they had no property taxes. Their taxes were being paid with the hard earned money of Americans like you and me.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Lobbying is nothing more than providing information and opinions to policymakers.  Using taxpayer funds may sound bad, but the alternative could be worse.  It would amount to a gag rule on the very people with the most expertise.  Business legislation without hearing from those most impacted through the Chamber of Commerce?  Oil legislation without hearing from the oil companies (which receive tax incentives)?  That just doesn’t make sense.

      It doesn’t make sense because you’re attacking a straw man.  I’m not talking about a ban on lobbying.  I’m fine with lobbying. 

      My problem is tax dollars going to groups who lobby.  Not appropriate.  And the government doesn’t need lobbyists to lobby the government.

      • wj

        Lobbying, by definition, is hiring a third party – individual or organization – to speak for you.

        First Amendment-wise, there is no difference between speaking directly to a policymaker and hiring someone to do it.  Preventing an organization from choosing the means of communication violate their right to free speech.

        Concerning private entities,why should the mere acceptance of government money require the organization to forfeit its First Amendment rights?

        • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

          Again, WJ, i’m not asking the organization to forfeit its 1st amendment rights.  I’m calling for a halt to giving public money to groups that engage in advocacy.

          It’s not appropriate.  Those tax dollars belong to all of us, and not everyone agrees with the agenda of the Association of Counties or the Chamber of Commerce or any other group that might be getting taxpayer funds.

          • wj

            Suppose the Lutheran Church has a contract with the state to facilitate adoptions for special needs children and foster care. Why should it forfeit its First Amendment rights to speak on another matter, such as legislation on taxing cemetery property, because it accepted the contract?  

            Alternatively, the private organizations could all refuse to sign the contract with those terms and the services would have to be provided by government bureaucrats.

            I’m not opposed to putting strings on those who receive government funding, but there has to be a limit.  Losing all free speech rights as a condition seems to go too far.

  • wj

    Lobbying is nothing more than providing information and opinions to policymakers.  Using taxpayer funds may sound bad, but the alternative could be worse.  It would amount to a gag rule on the very people with the most expertise.  Business legislation without hearing from those most impacted through the Chamber of Commerce?  Oil legislation without hearing from the oil companies (which receive tax incentives)?  That just doesn’t make sense.

    If you prohibited the voices of everyone who receives any type of tax money or break, very few people would be allowed to lobby – and important voices would be missing.

    Ultimately, this is a free speech and association issue.  People have a right to petition their government and they have the right to do it through associations.

    One can limit government employees or maybe even government agencies from lobbying, but when you start trying to cut off any voice from any person or organization that remotely receives tax benefits, you run into some serious free speech issues.

  • Wesley Fargo

    So if Rob I and 3 other folks are on the Zap city commission, and there is a hearing in Bismarck on water issues in Western ND, that we cannot attend due to our real jobs or lack of legislative ties,  we can or cannot hire “Joe citizen to go to Bismarck and lobby on our cities behalf?  Whats wrong with that? 

    After Measure 2 passes every town is going to need a lobbiest, maybe dozens of them depending on the new bureaucracy that will be created to dole out the funding for everything from schools to roads to local watershed districts. 

    I agree with Rob, I see no point in contributing city dollars to pay memberships to Local Chambers of Commerce, and I’m glad I’m not the only one irritated by that.

    Things like those contributions should be something that the citizens of the community spending those dollars must address, not the future ND State Board of Dollar Distributions to Local Political Sub-Divisions, Park Boards and Water Districts. or NDSBDDLPS-D PBWD for short.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      So if Rob I and 3 other folks are on the Zap city commission, and there is a hearing in Bismarck on water issues in Western ND, that we cannot attend due to our real jobs or lack of legislative ties,  we can or cannot hire “Joe citizen to go to Bismarck and lobby on our cities behalf?  Whats wrong with that?

      Because the tail begins to wag the dog.

      And the folks on the Zap City Commission have legislators that represent their area to whom they can communicate their concerns if they can’t come to the legislature directly.  Though you really have to wonder how important an issue it is if they can’t find the time to do the job their elected to.

      • http://twitter.com/DGinND Dustin Gawrylow

        Since Zap is at issue here somehow, the legislators represent the voters, not the interests of other government officials.

  • wj

    Lobbying is nothing more than providing information and opinions to policymakers.  Using taxpayer funds may sound bad, but the alternative could be worse.  It would amount to a gag rule on the very people with the most expertise.  Business legislation without hearing from those most impacted through the Chamber of Commerce?  Oil legislation without hearing from the oil companies (which receive tax incentives)?  That just doesn’t make sense.

    If you prohibited the voices of everyone who receives any type of tax money or break, very few people would be allowed to lobby – and important voices would be missing.

    Ultimately, this is a free speech and association issue.  People have a right to petition their government and they have the right to do it through associations.

    One can limit government employees or maybe even government agencies from lobbying, but when you start trying to cut off any voice from any person or organization that remotely receives tax benefits, you run into some serious free speech issues.

    • Anonymous

      I think you are taking this to an extreme here.  An oil company who got a tax break hardly compares to a county commissioner who takes tax money to pay dues to an organization whose membership is limited to people who pay with public money.  Any elected official or public employee should be allowed to state their personal opinion in a public forum.  They should all be allowed to call their representatives with their own phone on their own time. 

      • wj

          “Any elected official or public employee should be allowed to state their personal opinion in a public forum.”   But not form associations to speak collectively?
        The right to form associations to facilitate speech is protected by the First Amendment.

        We have to also consider that – thankfully – most of our local elected officials are not professional politicians.  They need to rely on each other for expertise and, quite simply, time.

        • Anonymous

          The issue isn’t forming asociations, the issue is forming associations with public money.

  • One Woman

    Well, isn’t that nice. 

    Maybe NDAC needs to hear from some angry tax payers. E-mail: ndaco@ndaco.org

  • http://nofreelunch.areavoices.com/ Kevin Flanagan

    This is a blatant conflict of interest; all of these clowns are on the dole!

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  • Dakotacyr

    So you are saying that a group of public officials at they organization’s meeting can’t discuss and talk about a ballot measure and the potential effects on their counties?  In other words, you want to gag them completely from letting the public know how this will affect the services in their communities.

    So much for free speech and right of free association.   Back to civics 101 for you.

    • Anonymous

      They can discuss all they want.  They can express opinion all they want.  What they can’t do is issue an opinion under the banner of office or authority as if it were fact.  Traynor, as well as dozens of other elected officials have done just that.  SInce they carry the authority of office as well as  function at taxpayer expense they cannot influence a political measure in either direction.  That is the law. (NDCC 16.1-10)

      • Dakotacyr

        So there isn’t anything wrong with what they did in their meeting.  Much ado about nothing.

        • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

          No, they used taxpayer resources (their taxpayer-funded jobs) to advocate against an initiated measure, which is illegal under the laws of the state.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      So you are saying that a group of public officials at they organization’s meeting can’t discuss and talk about a ballot measure and the potential effects on their counties?

      No, I’m not saying that at all.

      I’m saying it’s inappropriate for groups like the Association of Counties to get taxpayer dollars.

  • Ralph

    NDACo has associate (non-government) members who pay dues.  A case could be made that those private dues are funding the association’s lobbying activities, while its taxpayer-funded dues support other functions of the association that serve its member counties’ needs.

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