Say Anything Blog

our society has become so dependent on government that we will call 911 in the middle of a freaking hurricane as though it is someone’s job in the government to save your sorry butt when you get yourself in a bind.

I think I saw on the CBS news that the President is supposed to come by in his hybrid SUV and pull every idiot out of the water personally.  That is unless he’s a Democrat in which case his SUV is goinng to be busy taking out evidence that could convict him.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

This is ass-covering for the MSM.  They got everything wrong about Katrina, and now they want to shift it all onto someone else.  Those guys couldn’t pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel.

Speaking of our collective (pun intended) reliance on government, rather than ourselves, in the two posts below in which both Rob and I noted the Supreme Court ruling against expanded “whistle-blower rights” there is reference in the quote NYT article to the fact that some 20 million of us are government employees.

Think about that for a moment, please.  20 million.  Approximately one out of every nine adult Americans is on the public payroll, supported by a dwindling number of taxpayers.  One out of nine!

And that does not include those drawing unemployment benefits, Social Security payments, government pensions of one sort or another, welfare, etc.

I can’t help wondering just how much more generosity with our tax money we can actually afford.

Bat One:

Think about that for a moment, please. 20 million. Approximately one out of every nine adult Americans is on the public payroll, supported by a dwindling number of taxpayers. One out of nine!

You think this is bad, see Palestine.  Roughly 90% of the population is either directly on the payrolls or receiving welfare checks from them.

Carrick,

I’m aware that there is virtually no economic activity of note in either Gaza or the West Bank territories.  Which is why I am so horrified that so many of us “work” for the government.  If anything, the example you cite should scare us all, as it is indicative of what happens as more and more people go on various government payrolls and benefit programs, while an ever decreasing percent of the population is expected to support the rest.

Incidentally, I do object to your labeling of “Palestine” as you have.  According to the US Supreme Court, the Palestinian Authority is NOT a government with any sort of legal sovereignty… a point of view which should be heartily endorsed so long as Palestinian Arabs continue to refuse to behave in a responsible, socially coherent manner.  At present they are little more than a rather large tribe of bloodthirsty savages, notwithstanding their many romance-intoxicated apologists around the world.

You think this is bad, see Palestine. Roughly 90% of the population is either directly on the payrolls or receiving welfare checks from them.

Carrick on May 30, 2006 at 11:06 PM

Well, what do you expect when they pay for services and the Israelis withhold them?

What do you expect from a group of people who had European Jews kick them out of their homes and take over their land and then treat them like animals, forcing them into refugee camps and bulldozing their homes, businesses and groves?

It’s amazing they have the intelligence and persistence to withstand the abuse.  I’m sure the two of you would have succumbed long ago.

If we get with a string of natural disasters again, Chickenhawk will be overwhelmed.  His little world is falling apart:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060529/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_bad_news

Just when President Bush was trying to accentuate the positive in Iraq and declare a new beginning in the war on terror, a rash of bad news comes from multiple fronts in the global struggle.

...Bush has tried to keep the nation behind him with repeated talk about the importance of defeating the terrorists abroad so they cannot attack the United States again.....He has not yet commented publicly on an incident in Iraq that Rep. John Murtha, a decorated Marine war veteran and prominent critic of Iraq policy, has contended could undermine U.S. efforts there even more than Abu Ghraib did.

...The military also is dealing with defiant prisoners at Guantanamo Bay who are trying to draw attention to the fact that some have been held for up to 4 1/2 years without charges and with little contact with the outside world....The Supreme Court, however, is expected to rule in June on whether Bush overstepped his authority by ordering war-crimes trials for some of those held at Guantanamo Bay.

*******************

Not that he deserves it.

YAWN.

You should get some sleep.  What is it where you are....2:30 a.m. or so (if you’re in ND)?  Guess troubled consciences find it difficult.

Which teletubbie is the yellow one?

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

Oh, for life to be ugly, brutish and short!  Damn this libertards, trying to organize society for the benefit of all!  The fuckwits don’t get that (poor) people are better off subsistence farming for Jesus, because then if they die horribly, at least they go to heaven (rich people always get into heaven because God obviously loves them).

God bless Ayn Rand!

Newsflash: If the terrorists strike, you’re on your own. If you want the ports protected, why don’t you volunteer to go down to the docks and inspect the crates yourselves, you bunch of freeloading hippies.

If we rely on government for everything we are no better than any other socialist country.  Remember it is we, the people, that make this country better than any other so it falls to us, the people to see that the country is secure from without and within, the very reason there is a second amendment to our constitution.  Never forget that it was ‘the people’ on board flight 93 that forced the hand of the terrorists.

"Oh, for life to be ugly, brutish and short!”

You must be a Malthusian.

As a free enterpriser, I want free people making free choices, which lead to prosperity for all, depending on their choice of action.  As little govt interference as necessary.

I am all for responsibility. That goes for everyone. Who is responsible for the erosion of constitutional rights, and why is it so important to give “the most powerful man in the world” more powers? Why are E-4 and E-5 paygrades responsible for command decisions? Oh and in case of emergency what number do you recommend someone dialing?

Oh and in case of emergency what number do you recommend someone dialing?

The point is that people seem to think that if they disregard evacuation orders that somehow the governments going to be there when they call 911.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

When we stop bailing out the Big Airline companies, tax breaks for oil companies, huge farm subsidies for Corporate Farmers, then, maybe then, you can complain about people.

Not to mention all the bloated waste of our $600 Billion a year “Defense Dept.” which was AWOL on 9/11.  Corporations dependent on Government and Tax Payer money.

So much for “Market forces”.

You all are a joke.

Emergency services are the government’s job.
The government is supposed to serve us, and especially the least of us.

The old folks who drowned in their retirement home were too stupid to save themselves? Charming.

Why are you making excuses for incompetent bureaucrats?

Your lack of economic knowledge makes your comments a joke.

robert, you have any idea what those posts before yours said?

I was referencing “pacified”, docdave.

As for the other guy, the administrators of the nursing home were responsible for their customers, not the govt.

Well would you have us rely on mcdonalds and exxon when tragedy strikes?  Saving people from natural disasters is not a money maker so who do you suggest we turn to...I myself cannot reopen I-75 during a hurricane can you...why not do you lack self reliance?

The old folks who drowned in their retirement home were too stupid to save themselves? Charming.

Why are you making excuses for incompetent bureaucrats?

The Louisiana bureaucrats should have followed their evacution plans when they knew the hurricane was coming.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

I want to be able to rely on the local govt, which has been collecting taxes from me for many years, to take care of what they are supposed to take care of.  I want them to do the jobs I pay them to do.  Bashing the federal govt over this is just another version of Get the President.
“why not do you lack self reliance?” Please interpret this for me.  It sounds like gibberish.

we should not expect the government to provide emergency services...but we should expect the government to track any and all phone calls, to determine who we can or cannot marry, and to make decisions about reproduction for us.  the hypocrisy is amazing.

jay, you wait for the government to save your sorry ass if you want, that’s your choice.  I prefer to take independant action if possible.

The rest of your comments is just misdirection b.s.

The Louisiana bureaucrats should have followed their evacution plans when they knew the hurricane was coming.
Thank you for making my point, Whistler.

And admitting the government has a responsibility to the people in an emergency.

The Louisiana bureaucrats should have followed their evacution plans when they knew the hurricane was coming.
Thank you for making my point, Whistler.

And admitting the government has a responsibility to the people in an emergency.

our society has become so dependent on government that we will call 911 in the middle of a freaking hurricane as though it is someone’s job in the government to save your sorry butt when you get yourself in a bind.

Yeah!  What a bunch of idiots!  And what about all those idiots who call the fire department when they set their house on fire!  I say let them burn!  And what about the idiots who are dumb enough to live in a bad neighborhood who go and try and call the police when someone is breaking down their door!  Fight your own battles retard!  Stop putting your hand out expecting the government to actually have any responsibility for helping you!

On a more flippant note, I wonder how many of those New Orleans residents who died during Hurricane Katrina last year could be found to have mirculously voted in the recent mayoral election in the Crescent City.

I’m intrigued by the notion that some of those who obviously died because of Ray Nagin’s unconscionable ineptitude might have managed to come back from the grave to vote to reelect him.  Given the area’s reputation for electoral chicanery it would hardly be surprising.

Well would you have us rely on mcdonalds and exxon when tragedy strikes?

actually the private businesses do a better job than the government.  In the Grand Forks flood of 97 the government didn’t do jack for the average guys.  (They picked up the garbage in front of the houses.)

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

And what about all those idiots who call the fire department when they set their house on fire! I say let them burn! And what about the idiots who are dumb enough to live in a bad neighborhood who go and try and call the police when someone is breaking down their door!

Are you saying that you expect the fire department to respond in an hurricane after someone ignored the evacuation order?

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

And admitting the government has a responsibility to the people in an emergency.

Government can help some, if they get their act together.  The point of this is that the mayor should have used his resources and his plan.

Waiting until after the disaster struck was a mistake.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

right, js, when someone is breaking down your front door, dial 911 and then cringe in a corner or under your bed hoping that the police get there before the intruder kills you.  And your comment about fire was beautiful too.  If fact, I once had a house with old wood shingles which caught fire from someones pop rocket.  The house would have been completely immersed in flames before the fire department arrived if a neighbor had not alertly sprayed the fire with a garden hose.  In real emergence situations, your best immediate defense is yourself.

"In the Grand Forks flood of 97 the government didn’t do jack for the average guys. (They picked up the garbage in front of the houses.)”

Whistler,

Not all of it, they didn’t.  After all, Dorgan is still in the Senate, isn’t he?

It isn’t always clear what to do in the event of a large hurricane. When Rita came in they were telling everyone in Houston to evacuate. All that did was clog the roads and empty the tanks of every gas station for hundreds of miles leaving thousands stranded on the road for days. My Grandmother ignored the order and road out the storm in comfort.

It is the government’s job to build levies and respond to natural disasters. The Bush Administration simply didn’t do its job. Maybe because the person they put in charge of that sort of thing was too busy shop lifting from Target.

My Grandmother ignored the order and road out the storm in comfort.

If something would have happened to her home she shouldn’t expect the government to show up in five minutes to take her away.

The Bush Administration simply didn’t do its job.

They did more faster than any other disaster in history, that’s all.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

docdave...it’s only misdirection bs if you are so drunk on kool-aid you can’t see the hypocrisy thru the spin.  i expect to take care of myself.  unpredictable events may arise that make that impossible.  at the same time i expect the government to do that which the law requires, within the bounds of said laws, and to do it competently.  none of which any of us can expect from this administration based upon performance to date.

Umm, in the Flood of 97 government missteps by the National Weather Bureau and the Corp of Engineers.  (They absolutely messed up their prediction of the magnitude of the flood)

Furthermore FEMA misled citizens of Grand Forks by delaying information so we had an orderly evacuation.  (James Lee Witt’s FEMA)

When people were evacuated they weren’t greeted by government employees that made everything better.  They weren’t there to fix our problems when we came back.

The GF flood was magnitudes easier to deal with than the New Orleans problem.  (Since we don’t live below sea level). 

Of course we weren’t out to score political points by blaming others for an act of nature.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

Are you saying that you expect the fire department to respond in an hurricane after someone ignored the evacuation order?

No, I’m simply pointing out that the OP was going too far with his generalization.  There is an entirely appropriate place for government to play in protecting its citizens from threats.  The midst of a raging hurricane is one of the few times in which we should not expect our government to be ready to help us.

right, js, when someone is breaking down your front door, dial 911 and then cringe in a corner or under your bed hoping that the police get there before the intruder kills you. And your comment about fire was beautiful too.

Right, like no one has ever scared away a burglar by yelling that the cops are on the way and no one has ever been pulled from a burning building after calling 911.  Geez, get real!

In real emergence situations, your best immediate defense is yourself.

I actually agree with that statement, but to say that you are “on your own” and should expect no help from the govt. is a far different thing.  You also seem to assume that everyone is physically and mentally capable of handling most any situation themselves.  That is simply often not the case when, for example, people are overcome with smoke in a house fire, or are simply to infirm to get out by themselves.  On the intruder scenario, most people do depend on the police for their protection and will have minimal defence (e.g. - a golf club) because they (correctly) feel the danger (e.g. - suicides, accidents, etc.) of having a killing weapon in their house outweighs its benefit in the common case.

The Bush Administration simply didn’t do its job. Maybe because the person they put in charge of that sort of thing was too busy shop lifting from Target.

Yeah, and it was kinda funny to watch him being briefed when he said no one could have anticipated problems.

What else is new.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/preamble/

Gee, I wonder why people might think that keeping them safe might be a government job. Where do that get such crazy notions?

sal, be nice if you would read the article you have referenced. ergo

the preamble is not a source of power for any department of the Federal Government. 
‘’Its true office,’’ wrote Joseph Story in his COMMENTARIES, ‘’is to expound the nature and extent and application of the powers actually conferred by the Constitution, and not substantively to create them

Constitutional experts will tell you that the preamble is simply an introduction and has no real legal value.  Unfortunately some activist liberal judges have decided differently.

Ah yes, that looks like a wonderful technicality there docdave!!!

But actually on closer inspection, to “expound the nature and extent and application of the powers actually conferred by the Constitution” sounds to me like “describe what the rest of the constitution says.” In particular, it seems like ensuring domestic tranquility and providing for the common defense apply mostly to powers laid out in Article II and to a lesser extent Article I of the constitution.

Oh well, it was a good attempt to weasel out of a valid point!  You get mad props for that!  Keep on trying!

It’s painfully obvious that there are some people who need help during disasters, the very old, the very young, the disabled, all those who cannot take care of themselves (who should be helped) and liberals, moonbats, socialists, people who vote Democrat, those who will not take care of themselves (who can all die for all I care, or for all they care apparently). I saw plenty of looters able to carry TVs for miles in chest-deep water during the looting after Katrina, they could have gotten out. I see we have no shortage of will-nots commenting here today. That being said we need to work up a list of them to make sure they get evacuated, in order of need. I just wonder how many will claim it is an invasion of privacy if we try to do that. They’ll all hate the idea but that’s the first thing the nanny state they keep begging for will do if and when they get it established. Must suck to be planning your own downfall and not even have the sense to know that’s exactly what you’re doing.

I don’t expect the government to come to my aid. The phrase “of the people, for the people and by the people” is quaint and outdated. I am no longer the government and the government no longer represents my interests.

Wow, Bullwinkle’s post says it all. He lists all the straw men that Rush has instructed him to hate, as if there were no good people affected by Katrina- as if the poorest among us actually have somewhere to go when disaster happens. In his view, every person who lost everything is a looter (black). He calls them will nots. Well, a large percentage of them were home owners and the working poor. Why are the right such haters? You people represent everything that is ugly in this country.

Oh well, it was a good attempt to weasel out of a valid point!

Thank you for your insulting comment.  Again referencing your link and the case Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11, 22 (1905) under the footnotes note this part of the courts decision.

We pass without extended discussion the suggestion that the particular section of the statute of Massachusetts now in question is in derogation of rights secured by the preamble of the Constitution of the United States.  Although that preamble indicates the general purposes for which the people ordained and established the Constitution, it has never been regarded as the source of any substantive power conferred on the government of the United States, or on any of its departments. Such powers embrace only those expressly granted in the body of the Constitution, and such as may be implied from those so granted. Although, therefore, one of the declared objects of the Constitution was to secure the blessings of liberty to all under the sovereign jurisdiction
and authority of the United States, no power can be exerted to that end by the United States, unless, apart from the preamble, it be found in some express delegation of power, or in some power to be properly implied therefrom.

Not sure what you don’t understand about that.

They did more faster than any other disaster in history, that’s all.
The Whistler on May 31, 2006 at 2:16 PM

Was that before or after they gutted FEMA’s response functions and didn’t bother to replace it with anything else? When they put an incompetent crony at the head? When they slashed the Corps. of Engineer’s budget for the levy system? When they STILL haven’t recovered all the bodies from the 9th ward?

Duke, are you saying that a man who can carry a 27” Trinitron in chest-deep water for 5 miles couldn’t get himself to any of the evacuation centers before there was any water? BTW bigot, you just claimed all the looters were black. I never said any such thing. Is it hard to see out of those slits in that hood?

Was that before or after they gutted FEMA’s response functions and didn’t bother to replace it with anything else? When they put an incompetent crony at the head? When they slashed the Corps. of Engineer’s budget for the levy system? When they STILL haven’t recovered all the bodies from the 9th ward?

You’re full of it.  Blaming the Bush admin for the levy’s is silly.  They were built under the Clintone administration.  Furthermore Louisiana has gotten more Corp of Engineers funding per capita than nearly every state. 

Since we did more faster than ever before you can’t really blame FEMA.  In fact when James Lee Witt was in charge they didn’t do much of anything for Grand Forks.  And what they did do wasn’t done quickly.

What are the names of those that aren’t recovered?  Where are they?  Did you make all of this up?

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

"… as if there were no good people affected by Katrina- as if the poorest among us actually have somewhere to go when disaster happens.”

So now the suggestion is that secular salvation is something to be earned?  Those “poorest” were supposed to be evacuated out of the city.  At least according to the city’s natural disaster Evacuation Plan they were.  And if Nagin, Blanco, and the rest of officials charged with those duties, had the faintest fucking clue what they were doing… or what they were supposed to do...maybe some of those “poorest” victims might have lived long enough to have voted legally in the recent mayoral election.

When Rita came in they were telling everyone in Houston to evacuate.

More b.s., John, the main surge of Rita didn’t come close to Houston so what’s the big deal about sitting out the storm which hardly was.  Anyway you don’t sound like any Texan I know as WE real Texans don’t wait around for the govenment to tell us what to do.

So ... when exactly is it appropriate to dial 911 and ask for the government’s help?  Is it weak and pathetic to ask the government’s help to get an ambulance, or to investigate a burglary of your house?  Or to put out a house on fire?  It’s an honest question, because if you took this “self-reliance” stance to its natural end, you should be willing to defend your own home, put out fires, and drive yourself to the hospital (hell! do your own heart surgery!) ... or, I guess, pay some private service to do it for you ...

J, now you’re just being ridiculous.  I never said that you should never consult with the authorities just that one should not rely EXCLUSIVELY on them.  The rest of what you wrote is just noise, and yes, in this country we do select the doctors, surgeons and the hospitals we need for our health care.

Where do you live?

Was this original post targeted at the lobbyists who scurry about DC with their hands out to the government?

If not, it should have been!!

Why are the right such haters? You people represent everything that is ugly in this country

Amen and amen!!!!

I think it’s because of who they are following.

SHOOT OUT AT U.S. CAPITAL

In the House of Representatives parking garage friday morning two British and one French intelligence operative were involved in a shootout with automatic weapons.

Evidence files in a pouch documenting a plot to bomb the Amtrak rail system led to this shootout. President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair had full knowledge of these files.

Blair is said to be present in Washington while these plans were being hatched.

http://www.tomflocco.com/fs/Feds3Dead.htm

@docdave:

Not sure what you don’t understand about that.

Wow, you are really good at repeating yourself.  I fully understood your point from the first post.  My counter point was that while the preamble itself has no legal weight it is describing the purpose of most of the powers laid out in Article II and to a lesser extent Article I.

In fact, the preamble is the only part of the constitution that states its purpose.  All the rest are simply mechanisms to achieve the stated purposes.

Getting back to the original point,

Gee, I wonder why people might think that keeping them safe might be a government job. Where do that get such crazy notions?

Some of the primary reasons why we established a national govt. w/ our constitution were to ensure domestic tranquility and provide for the common defence—those reasons are stated right in the preamble of our founding document.  Like he said, where on Earth did US citizens get the funny idea that protecting them was largely a govt. function?

diane spews, Yeah, and it was kinda funny to watch him being briefed when he said no one could have anticipated problems.

Bush had said that nobody anticipated the levees being breached and that they had only figured that the levees would be topped.

What else is new.

You, once again, are completely lost. What else is new?

Amen and amen!!!!

Amen sister! (Do you even know what you’re saying “amen” to? It appears not.)

Duke Cunningham lays out, In his view, every person who lost everything is a looter (black). He calls them will nots. Well, a large percentage of them were home owners and the working poor. Why are the right such haters? You people represent everything that is ugly in this country.

Says the guy who just labelled all looters as black. Your comment was meant to be a sad joke, right?

The unconscious racism of the left.

Or not so unconscious.

Ask Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice and Michael Steele about how the Left has purged itself of racism.

When I said “unconscious”, I didn’t mean unaware, I meant “lacking in consciousness”.  And yes, they have bad intentions.

Amazing, the warmongers on this board want to ‘free the Iraqi people’ from Saddam and spent hundreds of billions of dollars doing it out of the ‘kindness of their hearts toward Arabs’ (and if you buy that, there’s a bridge....), but they don’t want to help their own fellow citizens.

Duplicitous lot, aren’t they?

Hey lik,

It really is so boring to see you cut and paste ever single sentence.  Just an overview would work.

Yeah, I’m suggesting and I’m sure that will get another cut and paste response that won’t be nice but ask me if I care?  Not at all.

Hey ‘guys’...why couldn’t the Iraqi people have been responsible for their own destiny and safety, just like you want us to be?  Why did you have to go help them out in their distress when you’re willing to let us die in a natural disaster and take it like a man and be ‘responsible’?

Don’t think too hard, you might fracture whatever is left up there to work with.

Read up on the “watchers” under Saddam.  You might learn something.

Robbie wants to save the ‘world’ but let his American brothers perish in the hurricanes.

Robbie is inconsistent.