Say Anything Blog

In today’s political climate, most taxation is for social engineering/income redistribution purposes anyway.  Only about 25%-30% is for revenue for legitimate govt functions.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

No one is free now. Your chains grow heavier with every little piece of legislation. The list of things that you can still do without directly or indirectly paying taxes is pretty short. You have paid taxes on the air you breath. You have paid taxes on whatever you look at. You have paid taxes on the lake or stream you take a drink from. If you try to walk nude to avoid the sales tax on clothes, you have already paid taxes on what you’re walking on. If you try to lay there holding your breath with your eyes closed, you have paid taxes on what you are laying on.

Freedom is a powerful word. It creates fear in those who would prevent it and courage in those who would have it.

Devil’s advocate: Government pays for a good chunk of these dying smokers’ healthcare, so it’s in gov’s best interest to regulate.

Devil’s devil’s advocate: Of course the heavy smokers die early enough that gov doesn’t have to pay for their geriatric care…

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

When everyone stops smoking, where will all that revenue come from?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

High taxes haven’t helped me quit at all.  They’ve only helped me find excuses to go to the casino on the reservation.  The casino is about the only place left where they don’t treat smokers like we’re radioactive.  My blackjack game is also improving by leaps and bounds.

High taxes on tobacco = keep smoking & start gambling

HP:  Guess what?  The govt doesn’t pay for anything; the taxpayers pay for everything.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert,

I’m not sure where I ever made a statement to the effect that government is not = to taxpayers.

Is this one of your non sequitur days?

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

Is this one of your non sequitur days?

You did it twice in your last comment.  Do you read what you write?

Devil’s advocate: Government pays for a good chunk of these dying smokers’ healthcare, so it’s in gov’s best interest to regulate.

Devil’s devil’s advocate: Of course the heavy smokers die early enough that gov doesn’t have to pay for their geriatric care…

Hairy Polemic on June 16, 2008 at 04:53 am

I bolded the relevant statements you made.
In denial today?

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Yes, but what in my comments hinted at the possibility that I don’t know that the government gets its money from taxpayers? Here’s a bit of advice that might help you along in life: Paranoia is NOT just hypersensitivity to the truth.

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

HP: You referred to the “govt paying” twice.  Is that all you have? Stupid denial and personal attack?  If you know better, why did you write what you wrote?  You give no logical explanation for not meaning exactly what you wrote in that comment.
There was no “hinting” at all; you said it straight out.  Do you stand behind your own words?

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Robert… are you on crack? When I say that “I have hungry mouths to feed,” do you take that to mean that I have a bunch of disembodied mouths nailed to the wall somewhere in my house? Have you ever heard of the term “synecdoche”?

syn·ec·do·che /sɪˈnɛkdəki/ Pronunciation
–noun Rhetoric. a figure of speech in which a part is used for the whole or the whole for a part

We really need to fix education in this country.

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

High taxes make smokers quit??  That’s beyond stupid especially coming from a health official. Raising the price of tobacco with increased taxes to cut consumption will have the same overall effect of raising gas prices to cut gas consumption.  Virtually none.  Of course, liberals believe the opposite on both cases.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

Raising the price of tobacco with increased taxes to cut consumption will have the same overall effect of raising gas prices to cut gas consumption.  Virtually none.

Mmmm… while I agree that gov shouldn’t use taxes to regulate, I think you’re wrong as far as the efficacy of the policy in New York. Come to NY. Ten years ago everyone was smoking, today practically nada (of course the bar and restaurant bans helped a bit too). We don’t all live near easily accessible Indian Reservations.

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

The whole concept of making specific alterations of behavior through the mechanism of taxation is an antiquated idea called “excise taxes"(excise means “cut out” in Latin).  It comes from the idea that the govt should try to limit certain behavior that is morally reprehensible, by taxing it, and is essentially a Marxist concept, although it predates Marx’s writings.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

HP: The proportion of adults that smoke in America has been dropping for generations.  While local taxation might make some small contribution, it’s too easy to go to the neighboring state or nearby Indian reservation to avoid the tax.  If we have learned anything from punitive taxation, it’s that people will be extremely clever in avoiding the tax, while continuing to choose their behaviors in the spirity of individual independence.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Hey, like I said, I don’t believe in excise taxes. But whether I like it or not, the policy works in New York. We don’t have any other source of cigarettes close enough to us to be “clever.” So those of us who can’t afford $9 a pack, don’t buy them.

That said. I wish taxpayers would stop trying to run each others’ lives.

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

HP: I have read that the NY ciggie tax has enriched the NJ Mafia, which is completely understandable.  It’s just a short drive across a bridge or through a tunnel.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

If you have some NJ mafia contacts willing to sell cigs at a lower price, please send them my way. I’d say I am right now an “average” NYer (income-wise), and as an “average” NYer, I know of no such extra-legal sources of cigarettes.

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

I don’t doubt that the New York cigarette tax probably has a big impact on the number of smokers.  But that isn’t the point.  The point is should we be trying to run one another’s lives with taxes?  If we’re going to maintain that tobacco is a legal substance for consumption why should smokers be singled out for exorbitant taxation?

If we want people to quit smoking we should pass a ban at the state level.  If there isn’t enough popular support for a ban then we should leave smokers alone.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Robert… are you on crack?

Another personal attack, which usually signifies that you have been busted, and aren’t honest enough to admit it.

Here’s some advice: if you don’t really mean what you write, preface it with “Rhetorically speaking...”, instead of trying to save face later with the “I didn’t really mean it.” bullshit.
It’s not my job to read your mind, so try to be clear and honest, OK?

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

...as an “average” NYer, I know of no such extra-legal sources of cigarettes.

Ignorance is bliss.  Seriously, they aren’t “extralegal”; they are just a result of competition in the market.  I guess it depends on how strong your “cigarette jones” is.  You can make a weekend trip, buy a case, and be all set to puff away to your heart’s content.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

It’s not my job to read your mind…

Yea, but you can be reasonably intelligent. Or at least, I assume that SAB readers are intelligent enough to know that when I say “government” I am referring to the taxpayers that constitute it… duh.

Sorry buddy, I’m not going to change how I write to make sure that the lowest common denominator (you) understands me.

“Behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil… a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unision.” - Milan Kundera

when I say “government” I am
referring to the taxpayers that constitute it… duh.

Bullshit.  I suggest you try being honest rather than trying to denigrate those who bust you.
If you’re not intelligent enough to know the difference between govt and the taxpayers, then you have no business attempting any “rhetoric” at all.
Here it is: only some citizens pay taxes, so only some of us are tapped to support govt programs in which we have no say, in any practical sense.
Do you know that SCOTUS is part of govt?
That whole “the State=the people” is just Marxist BS.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

. Come to NY. Ten years ago everyone was smoking, today practically nada

Ten years ago??  Sixty years ago almost all males in the entire country smoked so what does that prove?  When cigarettes were scarce during WWII, smokers would roll their own.  From that point, smoking has dramatically declined for a variety of reasons with perhaps health being the most significant.

Really, you haven’t shown any statistical correlation between the price of tobacco and the number of smokers.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.