Say Anything Blog

While I can understand why some might think a trip to a Caribbean island would be a “vacation”, I give you my word that we spent our time listening, learning and building a freindship with a newly elected government (including a meeting with the country’s prime minister.)

Hopefully this visit will be the beginning of valuable partnerships with this nation.  As I stated in the Forum story, North Dakota has made a strong effort to build alliances in nations such as Cuba and China.  While I believe we should look to all markets for our products, I also strongly believe that trading with democratically elected nations should remain a priority for us.  In Antigua, we have a new democracy that is looking to aggressively raise the standard of living for its citizens. 

Although small in population, Antigua imports a half a billion dollars in ag products each year.  Along with their own citizens, they also have many tourists annually who must be fed.  It be in our best interests, I believe, to see if we can build trading relationships with them.  North Dakota has much to offer agriculturally, and as legislators we have a responsibility to learn where our state can grow its markets.  This is one such instance. 

If we do not establish a trade relationship here, all we as legislators are out is several days away from our jobs and our families.  What we are not out is a single dollar of taxpayer’s money.  By making these initial contacts, it’s my hope that many other North Dakotans (both Republicans and Democrats) can benefit well into the future from this new friendship.

Rep. Blair Thoreson
R-Fargo

[...] Trackback URL for this entry:http://haloscan.com/tb/rgion/113011813414271713ND Legislators Make Perfectly Legal Trip To AntiguaExcerpt: Janell Cole writing in the Fargo Forum: BISMARCK – Five North Dakota legislators – including four from Fargo – took a four-day, all-expenses paid trip to Antigua earlier this month on an unofficial trade mission paid for by the tiny Caribbean i...Weblog: Say AnythingTracked: 10.24.05 - 1:03 pm [...]

That’s right, Ryan.  Its not the legality that matters, but the seirousness of the charge.

Give me a break.  This is a bunch of ginned-up outrage and you know it.  It wasn’t like this was a secret trip.  There were press releases and everything.  These legislators traveled to Antigua, discussed ways that country and ND could benefit one another, and came back.  Did some of the legislators enjoy the sunshine and atmosphere while down there?  Probably.  Should we prosecute them for it?

If state Dems wanted to make a similar trip I’d have no problems with it.  In fact, I’d encourage it.  Its a good way bring new business and money into our state.

But if you think trips like these are so wrong, feel free to advocate for legislation barring them.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob,

It’s good to know that you support foreign governments when they attempt to lobby our legislators.  Antiguans know whats best for North Dakotans - we can’t be trusted to our own devices, don’cha know.

I fully support foreign governments donating, befriending, and spending lavish amounts of money on our legislators.  Because if it’s legal, it’s obviously not wrong.

Rob,
There were no press releases from the ND representatives.  Kasper denied the trip before he acknowledged it.

Forum:

Kasper and Grande said the lawmakers haven’t discussed the trip in public because, at this early stage, they don’t want to create expectations that something is going to immediately happen.

You’d think five North Dakotan legislators taking a trip to meet the heads of state of a foreign government would be news.  Apparently not.

It’s fishy.  And if Joel Heitkamp did what Kasper did, I’d be just as suspicious - don’t try pulling the “your team would do it too” act on me.

I want to know what kind of influence the country of Antigua has on up to seven of our state representatives.  Kasper didn’t want to go public with the trip?  Why?  If he came out and said, “Hey, I’m going to Antigua.  We’re gonna talk about stuff.  See you in a week!” I’d be a lot less suspicious.  But instead, it looks like he’s trying to hide something.

Kasper denied the trip before he acknowledged it.

When did this happen?  It’s the first I’ve heard of it.

You’d think five North Dakotan legislators taking a trip to meet the heads of state of a foreign government would be news. Apparently not.

It’s fishy. And if Joel Heitkamp did what Kasper did, I’d be just as suspicious - don’t try pulling the “your team would do it too” act on me.

It is news.  It has now been reported in the state’s largest newspaper.  All that’s left is some ginned-up outrage from partisan sources trying to make some political hay.

I want to know what kind of influence the country of Antigua has on up to seven of our state representatives.

You know about this trip, now watch how they vote.  What more do you need to know?  This is pretty straight-forward stuff.

Kasper didn’t want to go public with the trip?

Kasper, I’m assuming, was waiting to release information about the trip in due course.  As far as I know he’s never denied making the trip, nor have any of the people who went.  Yet you continue to pretend like he denied making it.

That’s pretty close to libel, pal.

This is all a bunch of hooey.  Legislators have made trips like this in the past.  The fact that they went to a tropical location is irrelevant.  Sure its easy to cast aspersions about politicians getting a free trip to somewhere nice, but would you be as upset if they got a free strip to Siberia?

Put your faux-outrage away.  Or at least save it for a “controversy” that’s a little more interesting.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Yet you continue to pretend like he denied making it.

That’s pretty close to libel, pal.

Libel, Rob?  C’mon, you can do better than that if you want to throw around McCarthyisms.  Criticizing government officials is nowhere near libelous.

Besides, it’s true.  From the same article you linked to:

FORUM: “There are 500 reasons where I see potential for North Dakota to work with Antigua,” said Kasper, who when first contacted had no comment about the trip and wouldn’t acknowledge it happened.

This is all a bunch of hooey. Legislators have made trips like this in the past.

Can you provide some articles about these trips?  I’d feel very uncomfortable if this sort of thing is happening all the time.  There’s a reason federal officials can’t take money/gifts from just anyone, and that reason can easily be applied to state officials.  I’m very much in the “stop corruption before it starts” vein of thought.

It is news. It has now been reported in the state’s largest newspaper. All that’s left is some ginned-up outrage from partisan sources trying to make some political hay.

There was no word that ND legislators were going to meet the prime minister of a foreign country beforehand - only several weeks AFTER they got back.  Meeting a prime minister, engaging in trade talks?  Pretty sweet, if you ask me, and something that we should know about, since they’re doing it on our behalf (even unoficially).

If Senator Dorgan secretly went off for a week to meet a few prime ministers, then came back and almost refused to acknowledge he’d gone on an unofficial trade mission on behalf of our state, I’d raise my eyebrows at that, too - especially if it was an all-expenses-paid trip like the one Kasper & co. received.

Then there’s the two other trips Kasper took on behalf of North Dakota, both paid for by sources outside of ND.  I’m glad taxpayers aren’t footing the bill, but we deserve to know who’s throwing free trips at our legislators.  Kasper won’t tell who paid for one of his trips, saying it was “confidential.”

If you want to continue deriding people who have a beef with politicians who accept free gifts from lobbyists, fine.  I believe politicians should not be influenced by anyone but their constituents.  You may be comfortable with non-North Dakotan businesses and even governments paying for free trips to tropical islands for state legislators, but it just makes me wonder where their loyalties lie.

Yet you continue to pretend like he denied making it.

That’s pretty close to libel, pal.

Libel, Rob?  C’mon, you can do better than that if you want to throw around McCarthyisms.  Criticizing government officials is nowhere near libelous.

Besides, it’s true.  From the same article you linked to:

FORUM: “There are 500 reasons where I see potential for North Dakota to work with Antigua,” said Kasper, who when first contacted had no comment about the trip and wouldn’t acknowledge it happened.

This is all a bunch of hooey. Legislators have made trips like this in the past.

Can you provide some articles about these trips?  I’d feel very uncomfortable if this sort of thing is happening all the time.  There’s a reason federal officials can’t take money/gifts from just anyone, and that reason can easily be applied to state officials.  I’m very much in the “stop corruption before it starts” vein of thought.

It is news. It has now been reported in the state’s largest newspaper. All that’s left is some ginned-up outrage from partisan sources trying to make some political hay.

There was no word that ND legislators were going to meet the prime minister of a foreign country beforehand - only several weeks AFTER they got back.  Meeting a prime minister, engaging in trade talks?  Pretty sweet, if you ask me, and something that we should know about, since they’re doing it on our behalf (even unoficially).

If Senator Dorgan secretly went off for a week to meet a few prime ministers, then came back and almost refused to acknowledge he’d gone on an unofficial trade mission on behalf of our state, I’d raise my eyebrows at that, too - especially if it was an all-expenses-paid trip like the one Kasper & co. received.

Then there’s the two other trips Kasper took on behalf of North Dakota, both paid for by sources outside of ND.  I’m glad taxpayers aren’t footing the bill, but we deserve to know who’s throwing free trips at our legislators.  Kasper won’t tell who paid for one of his trips, saying it was “confidential.”

If you want to continue deriding people who have a beef with politicians who accept free gifts from lobbyists, fine.  I believe politicians should not be influenced by anyone but their constituents.  You may be comfortable with non-North Dakotan businesses and even foreign governments paying for free trips to tropical islands for state legislators, but it just makes me wonder where their loyalties lie.  It’s a very interesting controversy.

(Weren’t you up in arms about Freeh’s second-hand accounts of Clinton supposedly asking for a donation from a foreign government official?  This is pretty much the same thing.)

Weren’t you up in arms about Freeh’s second-hand accounts of Clinton supposedly asking for a donation from a foreign government official? This is pretty much the same thing.

Yeah...the same thing...except that Clinton was allegedly asking for money for direct government action.  And what he allegedly did was illegal.

Neither of those things are true for the Kasper situation.

Bottom line, Ryan: The Republicans did nothing wrong.  And if these were Democrats, you wouldn’t be saying a thing.  And neither would the Fargo Forum, I suspect.

If you want to pass a law requiring that these trips go on the books, I’ll support that, but lets not get carried away criticizing these perfectly legal actions.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

[...] The Fargo Forum has an opinion piece up today about the Antigua trip I posted about yesterday: When North Dakota legislators take an all expenses-paid trip from special interests that might have business before the Legislature, North Dakotans should know about it. When lawmakers characterize themselves as some sort of unofficial trade team on a visit to a foreign nation, North Dakotans should know about it. [...]

Can you provide some articles about these trips?

Rep. Thoreson referenced several trips in the comments of this very post.

Libel, Rob? C’mon, you can do better than that if you want to throw around McCarthyisms.

When you write purposeful mistruths about somebody, that is libel buddy.  But since you pointed out my error I withdraw.  I missed that in the article.

This is still a bunch of mock-outrage.  Kasper’s support of internet gambling in the state is hardly a secret.  Nor are his ties with the gambling industry.  His trip to Las Vegas was widely covered.  That was no secret.  And Kasper could well have followed through on telling North Dakotans about this trip had he not been pre-empted by the Forum article and a bunch of baloney from the state Dems.

I mean, the Antiguan government issued a press release about this trip.  Do you honestly think that Kapser was going to try and keep the whole thing a secret?

Give me a break.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Blair Thoreson:

While I can understand why some might think a trip to a Caribbean island would be a “vacation”, I give you my word that we spent our time listening, learning and building a freindship with a newly elected government (including a meeting with the country’s prime minister.)

I’ll certainly buy this.  I once spent five days in Hawaii where I never got outside during daylight except at lunchtime. (Then we still never saw any beach or other scenery other than a commercialized restaurant strip.) I might as well have spent all five days in a blizzard, except for the final morning when I drove back to the airport.  If the hosts mean business (and chances are---if they are paying for the trip---then they do), it is basically work in an unfamiliar environment with few breaks.

This stuff sounds all fun, exciting and exotic until you actually do it.

I have a lot of trouble figuring out why Ryan thinks you would want to hide a trade-building business trip that benefits your state.  I guess it’s ‘cause he spews a lot of rhetoric, and mistakes that for either experience or understanding.

BTW, I am not a North Dakota citizen, but feel some connection since my oldest sister and her family spent about 10 years in Grand Forks.  Christmas’s can be a bit cold there, is all I’m saying.

Christmas can be cold here, but please come back sometime to visit North Dakota again from May-October.  It’s a wonderful place to live!

I want to try to clarify (once more) some misconceptions that our travels were to be kept quiet from anyone.  BEFORE we left for Antigua, I discussed the upcoming visit with many co-workers/neighbors/friends.  When in Antigua, we held a news conference after meeting with the prime minister and various other ministers (finance, agriculture, trade, etc.) I guess these don’t seem to me as actions of someone trying to keep quiet.  Just because we didn’t try to pat ourselves on the back by sending out news releases doesn’t mean that this was a “secret” trip. 

I’m happy to discuss our visit, and look forward to continuing along a path towards trading with the people of Antigua (regardless of what happens with Internet poker!) I hope in the long run North Dakota will benefit from it. 

Finally, someone else stated in their message here that “I believe politicians should not be influenced by anyone but their constituents.” Believe me, they are the people that I listen to first and loudest.  It’s an awesome responsibility to serve, and I know that my constituients are the ultimate “lobbyists”.  If they, or anyone else, has issues to discuss, I’m available anytime: or (701) 793-7134.

Blair Thoreson

You know, Rob, when I first read this headline, I thought to myself: “Ah, Rob is finally putting his partisanship aside. Good for him!” He’s going to criticize a stupid law that allows politicians to take all-expense paid trips to the Carribbean without disclosing it to anyone!

But no.

[...] But, since this wasn’t a trip to Siberia, that’s exactly what is happening right now. The Forum starts this bouhaha with a rather misleading article about the trip, slams the Republicans with an editorial, and then hands over most of an article (the one above) to quotes from Democrats while burying Republican responses at the bottom of the article. [...]

[...] Unfortunately, before Kasper got a chance to follow through with these intentions, the story was reported in an innuendo-filled article in the Fargo Forum and seized upon by partisans more interested in casting aspersions for political gain than actually discussing the issues surrounding the trip. [...]

[...] Also note the interesting way the Forum reports this story. When state Democrats “pounced” on the trip to Antigua it certainly wasn’t reported that way by Janell Cole in the Forum. Janell reported the trip and then gave plenty of room for quotes from Democrats condemning the trip while giving the short end of the stick to the Republicans trying to defend their trip. [...]

[...] Something is bothering me about the whole Antigua trip five Republican state Reps took.The Forum article said that Kasper wouldn’t even confirm he took the trip after he got back. There were no press releases beforehand. Total silence.Doesn’t it seem odd to anyone else that five legislators taking a trip to a foreign country and meeting the Prime Minister would be something they’d want under wraps?If they were, as they said, taking the trip on behalf of North Dakota, why didn’t they publicize it? I don’t buy Kasper’s line that he didn’t want to get anybody’s hope up. That’s a complete and total line if I ever heard one. Anyone else’s BS detector going off?This isn’t a question of legality. Rob over at SayAnything had an amusing post titled “ND Legislators Make Perfectly Legal Trip To Antigua.” He doesn’t get that the legality is besides the point. If five North Dakotan legislators are taking all-expenses-paid trips to foreign countries to meet with the heads of state, we deserve to know about it - and why they went.As I point out below, it’s apparent they discussed online gambling much more than “5 percent” of their time.What kind of influence does Antigua have on the ND legislators? Why didn’t they publicize their trip? Why did Kasper initially deny going at all?I did a search on The Forum’s site - only two hits for “Kasper” or “Antigua,” both the same stories that came out on October 23. As far as I can tell, there was no advance notice.I did manage to dig up one press release apparently from the Antiguan government posted on an online casino forum:The aim of the visit is to nurture the relationship between Antigua & Barbuda and the United States based on the country’s WTO victory and the delegation’s interest in online gaming.  The delegation includes North Dakota State Representatives Jim Kasper, Duaine C. Espegard, Bette Grande, Mark A. Dosch, Ron A. Iverson and Blair Thoreson and Lead Counsel WTO Gaming Dispute Mark Mendel.  [...] The delegation will also tour the Free Trade Zone, Antigua & Barbuda International Institute of Technology and the offices of gaming operators. The delegation will hold discussions with two major financial services providers – the ABI Financial Group and Global Bank of Commerce Ltd. - with a view to resolving the issues relating to the processing of payments to interactive gaming and interactive wagering companies.That sounds like a lot more than 5 percent to me.Yes, the trip was legal. So what? Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s appropriate. I don’t believe any foreign government should have undue influence over our state legislators. Why was Kasper hiding his trip? Not even the governor knew five people from his own party were going to Antigua to work on legalizing online gambling regulation in North Dakota through the WTO.Why the double-talk, the hiding, the wiggling? Kasper said he took the trip (unofficially) in the interests of North Dakota - why is he hiding what he’s doing on our behalf? [...]