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Monday, June 30, 2008

Most Deaths From Guns In America Are Suicides

Here’s a fact the gun-control activists don’t often talk about:

ATLANTA - The Supreme Court’s landmark ruling on gun ownership last week focused on citizens’ ability to defend themselves from intruders in their homes. But research shows that surprisingly often, gun owners use the weapons on themselves.

Suicides accounted for 55 percent of the nation’s nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There was nothing unique about that year — gun-related suicides have outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the last 25 years. In 2005, homicides accounted for 40 percent of gun deaths. Accidents accounted for 3 percent. The remaining 2 percent included legal killings, such as when police do the shooting, and cases that involve undetermined intent.

So if most gun deaths are people deliberately killing themselves, and if we can assume that most people who kill themselves would probably find another method of suicide if they couldn’t get their hands on a gun, doesn’t this mean that gun fatalities are much less of a public safety issue than gun control advocates tell us it is?

I mean, suicides aren’t a happy thing by any stretch of the imagination, but they aren’t the shooting-sprees the gun control nuts like to talk about either.

Of course, the gun control people would have you believe that people are committing suicide simply because they own guns:

Public-health researchers have concluded that in homes where guns are present, the likelihood that someone in the home will die from suicide or homicide is much greater.

Of course, it could just be that guns are the most popular method for suicide.  Which would mean that a lot of suicides would naturally have a gun in the house.

Statistics can be made to say anything sometimes.

Comments

Avatar for Maximillian Bourdais

Makes you wonder how many of the 70,000 automobile accident deaths in the USA are suicides… hmmmm....

I wish people would just take a bowl of ammonia, pour some bleach in and lock themselves in the bathroom… that way they could still be dead and not provide leftist SOB’s like CNN more ammunition on their crusade against the only right that protects their right to report anything they want and speak their minds…

Maximillian Bourdais on June 30, 2008 at 09:32 pm
Avatar for Gravypan

Not to mention, ‘homicide’ is a very scary word.

Nevermind that it’s not quite as scary as ‘murder’. Afterall, any death caused by the actions of another human, whether intentional or not, is considered a homicide.

Gravypan on June 30, 2008 at 09:39 pm
Avatar for Buzz

I wonder if that number includes the over 1000 American servicemen who have killed themselves either in the theater or at home. War is bad no matter how you slice it.

Buzz on June 30, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Avatar for Mark Wright

Of course, the number of suicides has nothing to do with determining what the U.S. Constitution says.  Only the liberal mentiond suicide in his opinion ... his leagal ruling on what he thinks the Constitution says.  Bryer votes what he wants the constitution to say .... not what it really says.

I want 9 justices who rule according to what the Constitution says .... not what they want it to say.  Ginsburgh, Bryer, Souter and Stevens make it up as they go along.

Mark Wright on June 30, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Avatar for Haudegen

Homer: You couldn’t be more wrong, Lisa. If I didn’t have this gun, the king of England could just walk in here anytime he wants and start shoving you around. [pushing Lisa] Do you want that? [pushing her harder] Huh? Do you?

nobody needs a gun at home, espacially automatic firearms…

Haudegen on June 30, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Avatar for Ken

espacially (sic) automatic firearms…

That’s why it is illegal for your average American to purchase an automatic firearm.

Ken on June 30, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Avatar for What up?

I’m afraid that this is just another scare tactic by our biased CNN reporters. First, the ALLEGED claim is that 55% of deaths using a gun are suicide. This does not mean that gun owners are more likely to commit suicide. Second, removing guns does not make people safer from themselves. We must assume anything can be a killer if we follow the line of logic that guns are killers. Jumping of a bridge is just as lethal as shooting oneself. For example, we are forced to say a bridge killed someone because they made a choice to jump (commit suicide). Unfortunately, people do make the choice to kill themselves. The easy solution is to blame a lifeless object. However, I would argue that the real solution is helping the person become whole/healthy. Rewriting amendments to our constitution is not a solution. Helping people is a solution.

What up? on June 30, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Avatar for Jagermann

This article is total BS. They didn’t even correctly cite their statistics. While its true that most gun deaths are completely unpreventable suicides, they are still spreading misinformation. First of all the Gleck study found that there are 2 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses. The article says just over 1 million… Over 2 million would be correct. Even the anti-gun Clinton administration found that there were 1.5 million defensive gun uses a year. This is no overestimate. This means guns are 80 times more likely to save a life than to take a life. The public health propaganda is totally false.

And the homicide and suicide rates INCREASED after the DC gun ban. Washington DC is often cited as the Murder Capital of the nation. In the 25 years following the 1976 DC gun ban, its murder rate INCREASED 51 percent, even while the national rate DECREASED 36 percent. The real statistics don’t lie. So how do these so-called “public health experts” come to the conclusion the murder and suicide rate decreased after the gun ban even when the FBI statistics prove the complete opposite?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/dccrime.htm

Who do they think they are fooling? The gun control lobby and anti-gun media can only make up lies to promote their propaganda. How pathetic…

Jagermann on July 1, 2008 at 01:31 am
Avatar for terry

ive been saying it for years.......americans are gullible and stupid. your gun policies are a joke. your neighbors to the north are a little sick and tired of hearing about your ridiculous 2nd amendment. guns do so kill people. that is precisely what they are designed to do, otherwise they would have rubber bullets silly string or bubbles coming out of the barrel.if you are worried about your neighbors invading your home, i suggest you stop acting like idiots and raise your kids to respect other people, not teach them to operate a firearm at a young age. you are a selfish nation and should be ashamed.

terry on July 1, 2008 at 04:54 am
Avatar for Bruce

Haudegen: “nobody needs a gun at home...”

Excuse me, but who the fuck appointed you the Official Arbiter of People’s Needs?

You know what I don’t “need”? Some self-righteous leftist asshole telling me how to live my life and how best to protect my children from harm. Sorry for the coarse language, but fuck you.

Bruce on July 1, 2008 at 05:14 am

Wow, Ken and Jager are the only regulars in this thread. Thanks, Rush! Now, that ought to piss the leftards off!

Max, you raise an excellent point. During the last 5 years I have known 3 people who did exactly that.

terry, cry and whine some more. We love that from socialist losers.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on July 1, 2008 at 05:17 am

americans are gullible and stupid.

Gee, I wonder where this guy comes from?

your neighbors to the north are a little sick and tired of hearing about your ridiculous 2nd amendment.

And we’re watching with interest while tribunals and “human rights commissions” are taking your freedom of speech away.

guns do so kill people.

No, people do. They use a gun as a tool to do so. Or a knife. Or a car. Or a rope. Or their hands.

you are a selfish nation and should be ashamed

And you should be happy that this selfish nation is yourt friend and neighbor because the flag you fly would belong to the Japanese, Germans, or the Soviets (take your pick) right now if it weren’t for us.

Typical liberal tunnel vision.


Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pilgrim on July 1, 2008 at 05:18 am

I wonder if that number includes the over 1000 American servicemen who have killed themselves either in the theater or at home. War is bad no matter how you slice it.

So is liver and onions but what does this have to do with the topic of Most Deaths From Guns In America Are Suicides?

Mickey on July 1, 2008 at 05:27 am

your neighbors to the north are a little sick

We’re a little sick of our leftist retards citing your healthcare system as their Utopian ideal. Get your crap together and fix yours as Castonguay mentioned. The last thing we need is a lecture from a country of free-riders, and from a country that is rapidly eroding the right to speak freely (as Pilgrim mentioned).


""That’s the problem with you lefties, you’re not willing to get your hands dirty. I’d suggest you roll up your sleeves.”

-Jack Bauer

Hoss on July 1, 2008 at 05:48 am
Avatar for Roy Jacobsen

We can quibble about the exact statistics--whether it’s a majority or not--but I believe that it is true that a large portion of handgun deaths are suicides.

I also believe that more liberals than conservatives believe that people have a so-called “right to die.”

So, a question for our liberal friends: If we assume that we have a right to die (I don’t, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume that), what’s the difference between Dr. Kevorkian’s method and a Glock 9mm?

Roy Jacobsen on July 1, 2008 at 06:04 am
Avatar for goneballistic

Japan has practically no civilian gun ownership, but a suicide rate almost twice that of the U.S.
But that doesn’t matter.  How Terry, our uber neo socialist northern neighbor, and his countrymen feel about it, that doesn’t matter either.  The main debate is OVER.  We in the U.S. have the right, have had the right, even before the Constitution was written, to keep and bear arms.  No matter who YOU are, or where YOU are, if YOU don’t like, YOU will just have to LUMP IT!
Next stop, Chicago.  In the near future, NATIONWIDE CONCEALED CARRY.  Get used to it.

goneballistic on July 1, 2008 at 06:29 am
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The study doesn’t break down how many of these suicides are by police officers, who have a higher than average suicide rate, whose firearms would not be affected in any way shape or form by any gun bans, therefore are meaningless to any premise that reducing the number of guns would reduce the number of suicides.

Besides, if I intended to do myself in, it would not fail for want of a firearm! There are knives, tall buildings, poisonous substances, and buses to be stepped in front of ( with the possible exception of those buses currently busy receiving Obama’s friends and supporters!)



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on July 1, 2008 at 06:56 am
Avatar for terry

pilgrim- this may come as a suprise to you but i dont recall the U.S. ever defending an invasion of canada by the soviets germans or japanese. you must be smoking too much crack.

as for the freedom of speech- seems to me that i can say what i want.

Hoss this blog has nothing to do with the health care system in Canada. (which , by the way, is far superior to the U.S.  just ask Michael Moore) sounds to me like another jealous rant.Pay attention to what were talking about crackhead.

terry on July 1, 2008 at 07:01 am

That’s why it is illegal for your average American to purchase an automatic firearm.

WRONG !

As long as you can afford the $200 transfer fee and background check even a liberal can own an automatic firearm.  and guess what?  there is no check box on the form to indicate your political leanings!  grin


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C. Y. on July 1, 2008 at 07:23 am
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As long as you can afford the $200 transfer fee

...and a weapon that costs nearly as much as my first house!


For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on July 1, 2008 at 08:00 am

and guess what?  there is no check box on the form to indicate your political leanings!

I guess it would change if Obamarama gets elected.


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C. Y. on July 1, 2008 at 08:05 am
Avatar for Fred

Canada is the funniest joke the world has ever told. I am pretty sure if Canada was the world super power the society we are currently living in would be much different. we would live in a hopeless world run by one centrelized government that controls every breath you take. One can never fully appreciate freedom until one is stripped of it.

Fred on July 1, 2008 at 08:12 am

Terry,
I’ll explain it since you seem a little slow: Canadian feels like weighing-in on our right to guns, saying she’s sick of it. I pretty much tell her I could give a shit less what she feels like by citing that I’m sick of the American leftists lording the broken Canadian healthcare system (and seriously, was the Michael Moore reference tongue-in-cheek, or are you really that stupid. Because I’ll go with the Canadian Supreme Court and the architect of said system in backing my assertion...that and all those northerners comning down here to get services they can’t get up there in the “superior” system). And yes, we know you can say what you want: as long as it fits within whatever the Human Rights Commission decides you can say. Have at it Comrade, it’s all for the common good.

And Terry, look up the term free-rider. I can’t make it much easier for you to understand, but if you’re still having trouble, let me know and I’ll try.


""That’s the problem with you lefties, you’re not willing to get your hands dirty. I’d suggest you roll up your sleeves.”

-Jack Bauer

Hoss on July 1, 2008 at 09:10 am
Avatar for terry

Free-rider- one who consumes more than their fair share of a resource.
This simply is not the case though. What we have in Canada is a system that entitles our people to health care regardless of their bank account. As for canadians going to the u.s. for medical services, i could say the same about u.s. citizens coming to canada because their own countrymen dont give a shit about their health problems, only their bank account.(reference Michael Moore) You see, here in Canada we accept the fact that when people need medical services they should get that help regardless of their bank account.(even Cuba has a better system) we laugh at your system but we shouldn’t because its pathetic and as i previously mentioned selfish.

your nation is seething with jealousy.

as for our freedom- i have never heard a single complaint except from jealous americans. go figure.

terry on July 1, 2008 at 11:05 am
Avatar for terry

Fred you are one one the reasons i refer to americans as stupid. you should visit our great country and see for yourself- but do us a favor- dont let the door hit you in the ass in the way out.

terry on July 1, 2008 at 11:12 am
Avatar for Mark Wright

Hidy Terry.  I just have to weigh in here.  You have said some really nasty things about America .... all of America.  It is a country I love very much.  I spent 23 years in the United States Navy .... just retired as a Hospital Corpsman.  I did this not because of the money… but because this is the land I love.  I love our freedome, our land, our peopl (even the liberal ones who drive me crazy sometimes).

I am not jealous or envious of Canada ... nor do I hate Canadians.  Most of you believe differently than I do.... so what.... it is your country and you can believe anything you want.

Please extend me the same courtesy.  But if you do not, it will not affect me in anyway nor change my mind.

All Americans are not stupid.  American in general is not selfish.  We give more in monitary aid and in people on the ground aid than any country in the world.  There are some selfish people in America ... but in no greater percent than in any other country.

I love to visit Canada ... but it is not my home .... but I will not insult your country as you do mine.

I do not care what you think or our Constitution, just as you should not give one iota what I think of yours.  We are two compleetly different countries with two compleetly differnt forms of government..... but we are still friends as nations.

I believe that the court made the right dicision based on OUR Constitution.  You think different.  Lets keep it at that and not trash a persons country just for sake of argument.

Very Respectfully,

Mark A. Wright
HMC(SS),USN,RET

Mark Wright on July 1, 2008 at 11:56 am

Roy, you raise an excellent point. Add to it the fact that each firearm used in a suicide is another permanently removed from the stocks of weapons available for use by evil, bitter, clingy Americans. A leftard win/win!


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on July 1, 2008 at 01:10 pm
Avatar for Jeugenen

CONSTITUTIONAL HERETICS ARE THE REASON FOR THE SECOND AMENDMENT
Presently, the judicial, legislative and executive branches of America’s Constitutional government, “by the People and for the People”, are comprised of two distinct classes of people:  patriots and patriophobes.  The patriots love and cherish their Christian culture and Constitutional law, and the patriophobes fear and hate it.
The ideology of the patriophobes is Neo-Marxism.  Historically, it was introduced to America at the end of World War II, when millions of pathetic Marxist refugees from Nazi Germany and Russia were trustingly accepted as immigrants.
The greatest threats to the “Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” of the American People are not from murders and other common outlaws, but from criminal elements within the highest levels of government. The Second Amendment Right to Bear Arms was added to the Constitution to make government leaders fear the People; and, in cases where they governed against the democratic majority will of the People, a means to rise in bloody revolt against them. The minority of Constitutional heretics now serving like self-appointed legislators on the Supreme Court, notoriously attempting to somehow abrogate the dreaded Right to Bear Arms, is a good example of why there is such vital need for this Second Amendment to the Constitution.
If the American People cannot peacefully restore their Christian culture and Constitutional Law by Cultural War, then they shall resort to the extraordinary bloody revolutionary powers granted to them by the Second Amendment to their Constitution.

Jeugenen on July 1, 2008 at 02:25 pm
Avatar for HG

your nation is seething with jealousy.

Actually Terry, it is envy, and is fomented by leftists such as yourself who are put out by the wealth and success of freedom loving Americans.  Rather than emulate excellence and achievement, liberals despise it for fear they cannot acquire it and demand that those who have forfeit a significant portion to satisfy the desires they refuse to fulfill themselves.

HG on July 1, 2008 at 02:41 pm
Avatar for goneballistic

you are a selfish nation and should be ashamed.

A Canadian talking about how selfish Americans are.  What a laugh.  Some years ago (’93?) my wife and I vacationed up in Maine.  We were eating in a bar and grill at the Northern Outdoors resort, when I noticed a Canadian family a couple tables over.  The 3 kids were horrendous, smashing condiment packets, watching the mustard and ketchup squirt, squealing with glee.  We all had the same waitress.  Honestly, I can say she was the best I’ve ever seen, top notch.
See http://www.northernoutdoors.com/site/resort/the_forks_resort_center.html

Anyhow, when the Canadians got up and left, I watched the dad leave his tip.  $1.67.  The table looked like a battlefield.  As she cleaned the wretched mess left by some of our gracious northern neighbors, I saw her shoulders sag slightly when she saw the tip.  But, our waitress still gave us top notch service afterward.

I left a $5 tip.  Our 2 sandwich platters came to only $13, but as I was leaving, I glanced back and caught her beaming as she found the tip that I left her.  It was worth every penny.

goneballistic on July 1, 2008 at 05:30 pm
Avatar for terry

gone ballistic- im sure that your waitress was extrordinarily overwhelmed by your unprecedented generosity. i mean you actually left $3.23 more than a fellow canadian. WOW. really WOW!!!
three dollars AND twenty three cents. WOW.
i still cant believe how darn generous you were. WOW. WOW. i just hope for your sake that your kids can still afford to go to college. WOW! that is a really newsworthy story.  Has anyone contacted CNN on your behalf. Sound to me that you, bill gates and Warren Buffet all share the same dream. WOW.

terry on July 4, 2008 at 02:48 pm
Avatar for goneballistic

Terry, that was a 38.4% tip.  On the other hand, your countryman left, let’s see, less than 1/2%.  For a party of 5, 3 of them munchkins from hell.
Terry, you seem to be more intent on delivering insults than discussing any issue at hand.  I’ve been to your country.  It was a nice place to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there.  If you think Americans go around feeling jealous of Oh Canada, you couldn’t be more wrong.  Really, most of us don’t give you or your country much thought.  Unless we are on the receiving end of one of your 1/2% tips.
You yourself might want to conduct a little introspection, concerning your own hostility toward us here down south of the border.  If you have it so swell, up there in the northern hinterlands, WHAT’S YOUR PROBLEM?  As they say, the best revenge is living well.

goneballistic on July 4, 2008 at 04:10 pm
Avatar for goneballistic

My mistake Terry,
Your country left about a 4.5% tip.  For excellent service.  A real high roller, that one.

goneballistic on July 4, 2008 at 04:14 pm
Avatar for goneballistic

And by the way, Terry,
When I said “your country left about a 4.5% tip” instead of “your countryman”, that was no mistake.  Actually, you see, Canadians in general are very infamous for being cheapskates when they come down here for a visit.  5% tips, or less seems to be the normal gratuity for you folks.  Makes one wonder, if life is so good for you up there, your health care provided for you and all, why are you all so cheap and stingy?
When we talk of Canadians in these parts, that is what we mainly talk about. Your government “takes care of you” like you are a pet dog, or something. We really aren’t jealous of you. Not at all. No more than we are jealous of an actual dog, because dogs are on a leash.  Most dogs never ponder that fact, they just live with it.

goneballistic on July 4, 2008 at 04:33 pm
Avatar for terry

you are exactly right- my country does take care of me. unlike your own which watches people die on the hospital waiting room floor. I’m sure you know alot about dogs since thats how you and your countrymen treat each other. And as for the 4.5% tip - leave it to a selfish american to look a gift horse in the mouth. Big suprise there.
i suggest that you re-read my initial comment about being selfish and stupid. Thank you for proving me right.

terry on July 5, 2008 at 07:23 am

You are exactly right! People die from neglect and abuse and lack of care in Canadian hospitals every day. And yet you claim it is the best healthcare system on the planet. So, why do thousands of Canadians come to America for their medical care?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on July 5, 2008 at 07:27 am

GB, this is a clear indication of how gun control laws in Canada are hurting people. This idiot has obviously been denied its right to commit suicide with a firearm, hence its bitter and mentally degenerate spewings into this thread.


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2Hotel9 on July 5, 2008 at 07:30 am

I have visited Canada many times and have lots of friends there - Toronto, Hamilton, Sarnia, London, Stratford and Montreal.

Canada, like every country has it’s pluses and minuses. It’s a very lovely place, but Canadians are apt to overlook their own failings just as we overlook ours.

What Canadians don’t want to talk about is the increasingly violent crime, racism and poverty spreading through it’s major metropolitan hubs - all in spite of a care-taker government.

Oh, and there is that whole separatist thing with Quebec....  not to mention the plight of indigenous peoples - Inuit and Metis, among others.


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pparets on July 5, 2008 at 07:50 am
Avatar for terry

Violent crime, racism and poverty???

death resulting from firearms
Canada- 816
U.S. 31,000

no stats on racism and poverty but we’ve never had an incident involving a black man being dragged behind a truck by his neck until he died. Poverty is everywhere. you make it sound like its worse in canada. simply not true. Our citizens from Quebec are proof of our rights to free speech.
As for aboriginals at least we allow them to speak. unlike your country which slaughtered them for the sake of some land as your history books indicate.

As for sending patients to U.S. for health care - it is paid for by our government. we still care enough to seek medical treatment even outside our border. 
In america your government would let you waste away and die before they would put forth any tax dollars.

Fuck you people are dumb.

terry on July 5, 2008 at 10:27 am

Its all about “feeling” and “caring”, really rather sad. If your government actually “cared” about you it would get you some serious psychiatric treatment.


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2Hotel9 on July 5, 2008 at 10:45 am
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As for sending patients to U.S. for health care - it is paid for by our government. we still care enough to seek medical treatment even outside our border.

So what will happen if America mimics your health care system and is, like your country, unable to supply enough care to meet demand?

Where will you Canadians seeking international care flee to then?

death resulting from firearms
Canada- 816
U.S. 31,000

Tabulating the number of people who died as a result of a gun injury tells us nothing.  We’ve recently discussed on this site that over half of gun deaths in America are the result of suicide, meaning that the gun was simply the instrument of choice for someone who was already going to end their life.

Meaning gun control would do nothing to prevent those deaths.

That’s just one example showing why raw gun casualty numbers are all but worthless.

And besides, you could save a lot of lives by banishing the automobile too, but I doubt anyone wants to go back to the horse-and-buggy days.  That guns are used in crimes is a small price to pay for the insurance against a tyrannical government they represent.

Finally, before you call anyone else dumb you may want to try writing comments in a way that doesn’t make you sound like an illiterate retard.


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Rob on July 5, 2008 at 11:07 am

we still care enough to seek medical treatment even outside our border. 

If your healthcare system was acceptable, it would be unnecessary for your citizens to seek medical treatment elsewhere.  Duh.


If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

robert108 on July 5, 2008 at 11:14 am

Heathcare delivery is better in Canada. Medical science is better in the USA. Marry the two and you have a winner.

ellinas on July 5, 2008 at 11:49 am

If your healthcare system was acceptable, it would be unnecessary for your citizens to seek medical treatment elsewhere.  Duh.
robert108 on July 5, 2008 at 11:14 am

Far more Americans seek medical treatment abroad than Canadians seeking treatment in the USA.
Medical vacations to India anyone?

ellinas on July 5, 2008 at 11:51 am
Avatar for terry

are you people still trying to convince me that health care is better in the u.s.???
A LADY DIED THE OTHER DAY WHILE YOUR PRECIOUS CITIZENS WATCHED. IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM.

Its a sad day for america when you exercise your right to not give a shit.
Land of the free home of the selfish

terry on July 5, 2008 at 11:57 am

Ellinas: Sorry, I think you are wrong! We have the highest standard of health care here than anywhere else in the world. I know, I worked inside that system most of my life, including lecturing on emergency and cardiac medical procedures throughout the world, and that allowed me to see what the standards are elsewhere. Further, every terminbal world ruler sooner or later will seek out health care here, because they know how much greater is our quality of health care.

Desperate Americans may go to India and other places for higher risk health care treatment of fatal diseases, because our standards are so much higher. These people mostly are out of hope and even the filthy hospitals and substandard care of other countries looks good if they promise them a cure.


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Neiman on July 5, 2008 at 12:03 pm
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A LADY DIED THE OTHER DAY WHILE YOUR PRECIOUS CITIZENS WATCHED. IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM.

That woman was covered by state health care.

Meanwhile, its a 3 month wait to get gall bladder surgery in your country.  I had my gall bladder out the day after I was diagnosed here in America.

Our system isn’t perfect, but it’s far preferable to your system which is not only crappy but also expensive.  Canadians don’t just come to American for health care.  They come here to shop at low-tax stores and then smuggle those goods back home.

Your system as the dual features of providing crappy health care but also having created a black market to escape exorbitant taxes.

You keep defending it because you’re not terribly bright.

Far more Americans seek medical treatment abroad than Canadians seeking treatment in the USA.

I’d sure like to see the facts and figures to back that whopper up.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

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Rob on July 5, 2008 at 12:12 pm
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she still died with an audience watching like they were at the movies.Popcorn anyone?

terry on July 5, 2008 at 12:19 pm
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How about access to MRI’s? I needed one for an elbow injury. I got it within a couple of hours of when my doctor ordered it.



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on July 5, 2008 at 12:20 pm
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she still died with an audience watching like they were at the movies.Popcorn anyone?

Some people are callous and insensitive.

This is hardly an indictment of our medical system.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

robport.gif border=0

Rob on July 5, 2008 at 12:27 pm

[...]

The New York Times reports that the Canadian system is imploding.  A recent Candian Supreme Court decision allowed private health care (oh, the shame, the horror) and as a result, Canadians tired of waiting for radiation therapy, eye surgery and hip replacements have turned toward private alternatives springing up under the new legal environment.

The Times reports:

Canada remains the only industrialized country that outlaws privately financed purchases of core medical services. Prime Minister Stephen Harper and other politicians remain reluctant to openly propose sweeping changes even though costs for the national and provincial governments are exploding and some cancer patients are waiting months for diagnostic tests and treatment.

But a Supreme Court ruling last June — it found that a Quebec provincial ban on private health insurance was unconstitutional when patients were suffering and even dying on waiting lists — appears to have become a turning point for the entire country.

“The prohibition on obtaining private health insurance is not constitutional where the public system fails to deliver reasonable services,” the court ruled.

http://cafehayek.typepad.com/hayek/2006/02/the_death_of_th.html

Like most socialist “utopias”, Canada’s requires the deaths of a great number of its citizens.


If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

robert108 on July 5, 2008 at 01:03 pm
Avatar for terry

still better than yours..

i’m bored of this now.  go shoot your neighbor.

terry on July 5, 2008 at 02:13 pm
Avatar for terry

film at eleven.  POPCORN TOO!!!

terry on July 5, 2008 at 02:14 pm

terry said, still better than yours..

Which is why everybody rushes to Canada when they need medical care.

Oh wait, they don’t?

Out with your fantasy.

Now all that terry has left are his childish insults. Nobody can take that away from him.

likwidshoe on July 5, 2008 at 02:39 pm

Terry: You need to tell the truth about Canada! Because, what I said was:

What Canadians don’t want to talk about is the increasingly violent crime, racism and poverty spreading through it’s major metropolitan hubs…

I never suggested or intended to make numerical comparisons, but you know that what I wrote is true.

However, since you compared numbers of gun deaths, let’s take a look at what the numbers really say:

You reported 816 gun deaths in Canada compared to 31,000 in the United States.  However, when you factor in that Canada had 816 gun deaths among a total population of 33,291,868, and the United States had 31,000 among a total population of 304,561,000, a more accurate picture emerges.

Likewise, you are engaging in slight-of-hand when you suggest that Quebec is an example of “free speech” in Canada. It is a clear example of the triumph of seperatist francophiles. All Canadian children are required to learn French. But students in Quebec are not required to learn English.  All traffic signs in Canada must, by law, be bilingual - except in Quebec, where they appear only in French.  That’s not free speech, that’s privileged speech!

Further, When white europeans settled in Canada, they seized the land from native aboriginals in exactly the same way ours did - by force.

Next, the tragic death of the woman in a psychiatric ward waiting room is only known to you because of outrage among Americans and the reporting of our free media.

Finally, let me enlighten you to the fact that 41,000,000 Americans who cannot afford private medical care [banned by law in Canada!] are covered by Medicaide, which pays for routine visits, extended treatments, procedures of every kind, long-term residential care and a host of other benefits provided with no greater or lesser efficiency than your own state-sponsored health care.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 5, 2008 at 02:43 pm

goneballastic - Actually, you see, Canadians in general are very infamous for being cheapskates when they come down here for a visit.  5% tips, or less seems to be the normal gratuity for you folks.

How right you are. Just ask any server working in a restaurant on the border.

Canadians are, as a rule = cheap, rude, chip on their shoulders, so busy telling others how their mommy government “takes care of me” and then they proceed to show that they do not share this same quality by leaving lousy tips. They’ll then have the nerve to point their little greedy fingers at others while yelling out, “greedy”.

Canadians offer the ultimate lesson in projection.

“Just ask Michael Moore” = watch what Michael Moore does instead. The fat ass doesn’t go to Cuba for his medical care. He stays in America where his chances are much better.

But really, anybody looking to Michael Moore to make his points is pretty damn ignorant.

likwidshoe on July 5, 2008 at 02:59 pm

Likwidshoe:  Let’s not get carried away here.  Canadians are, by and large, polite and cheerful people. They are, for the most part, very much like us.

We have all met citizens of other countries who are rude, arrogant or stingy, just as many have met the ‘Ugly Amrican’. 

I certainly would not want to be judged by the behavior of some of my fellow citizens I have seen abroad. Would you?


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 5, 2008 at 03:08 pm

Canadians are, by and large, polite and cheerful people.

Until it comes to time tip. At which time they show themselves to be boarish oafs.

They are, for the most part, very much like us.

They are socialists who put their faith into their mommy government.

They are the antithesis of us. They abhor individuality in favor of government conformity.

But in the end, who cares? It’s Canada; not a nation of anything important, but rather a nation that rides the coattails of greatness.

The true test is to see who is knocking at the doors of whom. People are rushing the gates to get into America. Canada? Not so much.

likwidshoe on July 5, 2008 at 03:20 pm

...just as many have met the ‘Ugly Amrican’.

If you have read the book, you know that “ugly” referred to his looks, not his behavior.  It was distorted by the America-hating lefties a long time ago.
This “everybody hates us” crap has been going on for a long time.


If life doesn’t begin at conception, why do they call it birth control?

robert108 on July 5, 2008 at 03:42 pm

r108:  You are quite right about the “Ugly American”. None-the-less, we have both seen Americans abroad that we would prefer not to be lumped with.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 5, 2008 at 03:45 pm
Avatar for goneballistic

Well,
Canadians do have the very best view of the Niagara Falls.  Great lox and bagel, too.
Other than that, during my visits there, I wasn’t impressed.  Gravy on the fries, no wonder they need free medical.
But, I never met a Canadian as hostile as Terry.  Still, I really believe Terry is a Canadian.  Terry thinks a 4.5% tip is a “gift horse”.
Here is a Tip for you Terry.  Michael Moore may be the man about town at the Cannes film festival.  In Canada, you all may one day worship the plate that he sopps the last drop of a liter of gravy from, with the last of his 1/4 bushel of fries, but down here, with the exception of a few far left liberals, the only thing big about Moore is his FAT ASS!

goneballistic on July 5, 2008 at 04:32 pm
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