Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

Months ago the armed federal agents from the Department of Homeland Security and the Fish & Wildlife Service raided a factory owned by the famous Gibson Guitar company, shutting it down and seizing some half a million dollars worth of product. What had Gibson done to inspire the raid? They allegedly used the wrong tariff code on wood imported from India. The wood was possibly not the correct level of thickness and finish, something required by India so that wood exported from that country is first worked on by Indian laborers.

Yet, months after the raid, there have been no charges filed by the federal government. Reason.tv has a report:

A raid by armed agents, costing the company millions in seized product and lost production, all over a trivial trade regulation for which no actual charges have been filed.

This is a portrait of a government that is too large and powerful for its own good. What’s even more troubling is that the law being applied here, the Lacey Act, could require anyone traveling with a guitar made of imported woods to disclose the origin of every wood in that guitar.

Now, the feds say in the video that they have no intention of enforcing the law against individuals, but is the government picking and choosing when the law applies really any better?

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

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      • awfulorv

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  • ellinas1

    Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars
    Rob Port on February 23, 2012

    So what?  

  • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

    It’s funny how Rob has become a proponent of law breaking simply because the government is responsible for enforcing the law.

    Right or wrong, the law needs to be enforced and measured principles how that law should be enforced needs to exist.  Going after the traffickers in illegal materials is economically logical, going after individuals is not.

    This is the US, not Africa.

    • Trespassers W

       Where’s the evidence that Gibson broke the law? No charges have been filed, and apparently none are pending.

      If they determined that Gibson did indeed break the law, then file the charges. If they determined that Gibson did indeed comply with all of the pertinent laws and regulations, then apologize for the raid and return the confiscated wood. Why is that so hard?

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        As I said, right or wrong, the law has to be enforced.  Sometimes the law enforcement agencies get it wrong, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t enforce the law.

        I don’t know the status of the case, nor do I care.  If they are not doing anything wrong then that will have to be dealt with, if they are doing things wrong, they should pay the price.

        Why is this so hard to understand?

        • Trespassers W

           How then do you make the leap from Rob’s commentary regarding this case and “It’s funny how Rob has become a proponent of law breaking simply because the government is responsible for enforcing the law”?

          Where does Rob advocate breaking the law?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Rob’s entire story is about his frustration with the government enforcing the law to the best of it’s ability.  If he is complaining that the cost to enforce law is too great, then he is arguing for the laws to be broken without law enforcement to watch over them.  It’s indirect, but that’s the end result of his whimsical fantasies of liberty.

          • Trespassers W

             That’s an interesting interpretation.

            Rob says “Yet, months after the raid, there have been no charges filed by the federal government.” Later in the piece he also says “A raid by armed agents, costing the company millions in seized product and lost production, all over a trivial trade regulation for which no actual charges have been filed.” [Emphasis added] To me, that is a clear sign that Rob is frustrated with the government’s failure to either press charges or exonerate Gibson. In other words, he clearly appears frustrated with the Federal government’s failure to justly enforce the law.

            Of course, if I have mis-interpreted Rob’s intent, I’d be glad to read what he has to say about it, rather than your attempts at mind-reading.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            In other words, he clearly appears frustrated with the Federal government’s failure to justly enforce the law.

            If you had bothered to read what I wrote, you could have taken my word for it.

            Now that we have come this far, maybe you should ask yourself what is the alternative to the Federal government’s ability to enforce the law, or dealing with it’s cost?  That’s right….no law enforcement.

            The law enforcement agencies are going to get it wrong once in a while, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t enforce the law.  That’s the very first comment I made.

            To bicker about the costs of law enforcement is nothing more than a plea to do away with law enforcement, or merely to make political noise during an election.  Take your pick!

          • Trespassers W

            Take your word for what, exactly? You initially said “It’s funny how Rob has become a proponent of law breaking…” I don’t see, from what Rob said, how you came to that conclusion.

            And where is Rob–or anyone else–saying that the Federal government should NOT enforce the law? That’s a straw man and a red herring.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Rinse and repeat:

             

            In other words, he clearly appears frustrated with the Federal government’s failure to justly enforce the law.

            If you had bothered to read what I wrote, you could have taken my word for it.

            Now that we have come this far, maybe you should ask yourself what is the alternative to the Federal government’s ability to enforce the law, or dealing with it’s cost?  That’s right….no law enforcement.

            The law enforcement agencies are going to get it wrong once in a while, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t enforce the law.  That’s the very first comment I made.

            To bicker about the costs of law enforcement is nothing more than a plea to do away with law enforcement, or merely to make political noise during an election.  Take your pick!

          • Qrstuv

            1) Where is the evidence that any law was broken?
            2) Do you think it would be OK to have *your* home or business invaded by Feds and have your *stuff* confiscated and held for months while the government decides how to make a case against you?
            3) If not, why are the rules different for you?

          • Trespassers W

             Your leaps of “logic” are truly amazing.

            You asserted that ” Rob has become a proponent of law breaking.” Yet you failed to make that case (by not even trying).

            From there, you jumped to the notion that someone–you haven’t made clear who exactly–is bickering about the cost of law enforcement, and from there say that that is “a plea  to do away with law enforcement” (again, sans evidence or reasoning).

            And, lest you accuse me of not reading what you said in the first place, I did read it. You did not say that Rob was frustrated by the governments failure to justly enforce the law, you stated that Rob was advocating law-breaking. That assertion makes no more sense now than it did then.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            You’re missing the entire argument.

            If Rob is “frustrated” with government doing it’s job, then what’s the alternative? I asked you that question twice, both times you ignored it.

            The alternative is for government law enforcement not to exist, because there is no option for law enforcement to be perfect.

            Now what you ought to do is start questioning Rob’s infantile whining about the American justice system.  The government does this to people EVERYDAY!!

          • Trespassers W

            Reading comprehension is clearly not your strong suit.  The issue is not the gov’t enforcing the law, it is their failure to justly enforce the law..

          • donwalk

            So in your mind, law enforcement ends once the confiscation has taken place, and to hell with the remainder of the process?
            What jewel you must be in your support of lawful procedure and constitutional freedoms.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Right or wrong, the law needs to be enforced and measured principles how that law should be enforced needs to exist.  Going after the traffickers in illegal materials is economically logical, going after individuals is not.

            This is the US, not Somalia.

            The law enforcement agencies are going to get it wrong once in a while, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t enforce the law. That’s the very first comment I made.

            I don’t know the status of the case, nor do I care. If they are not doing anything wrong then that will have to be dealt with, if they are doing things wrong, they should pay the price.

            Why is this so hard to understand?

          • Qrstuv

            You really don’t seem to understand that law enforcement officials are obligated to make their case in a timely manner. Otherwise it’s tyranny. We knew this in the 18th century. Why is it hard for you to understand?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            This happens everyday to minorities.  Where were you then?

            In April, 1989, deputies from Jefferson Davis Parish, Louisiana, seized $23,000 from
            Johnny Sotello, a Mexican-American whose truck overheated on a highway. They offered help,
            he accepted. They asked to search his truck. He agreed. They asked if he was carrying
            cash. He said he was carrying it because he was scouting heavy equipment auctions.

            They then pulled a door panel from the truck, said the space behind it could have
            hidden drugs, and seized the money and the truck, court records show. Police did not
            arrest Sotello but told him he would have to go to court to recover his property. Sotello
            sent auctioneer’s receipts to police which showed he was a licensed buyer. The sheriff
            offered to settle the case, and with his legal bills mounting after two years, Sotello
            accepted. In a deal cut last March, he got his truck, but only half his money. The cops
            kept $11,500. “I was more afraid of the banks than anything – that’s one reason I
            carry cash,” says Sotello. “But a lot of places won’t take checks, only cash, or
            cashier’s checks for the exact amount. I never heard of anybody saying you couldn’t carry
            cash.”

            Affidavits show the same deputy who stopped Sotello routinely stopped the cars or black
            and Hispanic drivers, exacting “donations” from some. After another of the
            deputy’s stops, two black men from Atlanta handed over $1,000 for a “drug fund”
            after being detained for hours, according to a handwritten receipt reviewed by the Pittsburgh
            Press. The driver got a ticket for “following to (sic) close.” Back home,
            they got a lawyer. Their attorney, in a letter to the Sheriff’s department, said deputies
            had made the men “fear for their safety, and in direct exploitation of that fear a
            purported donation of $1000 was extracted . . . ” If they “were kind enough to
            give the money to the sheriff’s office,” the letter said, “then you can be kind
            enough to give it back.” If they gave the money “under other circumstances, then
            give the money back so we can avoid litigation.” Six days later, the sheriff’s
            department mailed the men a $1,000 check.

            http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/aforfeit.shtml

          • donwalk

            I see you didn’t mention that little thing known as “Due Process”?

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

             Nobody has mentioned “due process” because it’s obvious.

          • donwalk

            Where are the actual charges, arraingment, etc.

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Bat One

            If you had bothered to read what I wrote…

            Now you’re starting to catch on?

          • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

            You interpreted it correctly.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            The issue is not the gov’t enforcing the law, it is their failure to justly enforce the law..

            That’s not his entire argument, he also argued about the expense of law enforcement.  I keep asking you and you keep ignoring the question.  What’s the alternative?

            Also, you don’t know the status of the case and for you to conclude that you know is simply a lie.

            The government is doing it’s job, read the information below, there was plenty of just cause to take the action they had.  Weather or not they are taking too long is one thing, but you can’t argue against law enforcement and the cost of it without making an argument against it’s existence, that’s what Rob is doing.

          • donwalk

            This is the best of government’s ability? Oh yes, that is right, we are talking about B.O. and his administration so this probably is the best you will get.

        • donwalk

          Then why no charges? Do you have difficulty in comprehension? There is no enforcement taking place, no judicial progress taking place, no clarification of the charges taking place and you don’t care about the status of the case, in exactly the way you don’t care about the trampling of our Constitution under B.O.
          Most people who have been reading or posting on this site understand you and your blind faith to “The One”, regardless of how much damage and destruction this once great country is incurring.
          That doesn’t make it any easier on the mind or heart to understand that to Liberals and Democrats (One and the same), the values of this country and its freedom will always come second to their desire to “win” and “control” at any cost.
          Sleep well tonight, knowing how you are part of the trampling crowd in trying to “win”.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

             Really, you can save your temper tantrum for someone who cares about your false concerns.  If they haven’t broken the law and the government has done something wrong, they will be sued and it will be dealt with.  That’s the way it works in America.

            The rest of the people acting like babies are just making a fuss because they have blind hatred for Obama, as if he ran this organization.

            Give me a break.

          • donwalk

            By that time they are out of business, which is what the goal was to begin with. I see you failed to mention “the right to speedy trial or judication”?

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Yes, our system is not perfect, but this happens everyday in America.  It’s still better than Russia.

            Trust me, this didn’t just start happening, you just started paying attention when it’s a black man in power and not white men doing this to everyone else.

          • donwalk

            Better than Russia, so that makes everything ok?
            Surely you jest!
            Tell me about the white men that did this same action, please? Include some details, rather than your usual phoney racist accusations.

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            ‘Looking’ Like a Criminal

            Ethel Hylton of New York City has yet to regain her financial independence after losing
            $39,110 in a search nearly three years ago in Hobby Airport in Houston. Shortly after she
            arrived from New York, a Houston officer and Drug Enforcement Administration agent stopped
            the 46-year-old woman in the baggage area and told her she was under arrest because a drug
            dog had scratched at her luggage. The dog wasn’t with them, and when Miss Hylton asked to
            see it, the officers refused to bring it out. The agents searched her bags, and ordered a
            strip search of Miss Hylton, but found no contraband. In her purse they found the cash
            Miss Hylton carried because she planned to buy a house to escape the New York winters
            which exasperated her diabetes. It was the settlement from an insurance claim, and her
            life’s savings, gathered through more than 20 years of work as a hotel housekeeper and
            hospital night janitor.

            The police seized all but $10 of the cash and sent Miss Hylton on her way, keeping the
            money because of its alleged drug connection. But they never charged her with a crime. The
            Pittsburgh Press verified her jobs, reviewed her bank statements and substantiated
            her claim she had $18,000 from an insurance settlement. It also found no criminal record
            for her in New York City. With the mix of outrage and resignation voiced by other victims
            of searches, she says: “The money they took was mine. I’m allowed to have it. I
            earned it.”

            Miss Hylton became a U.S. citizen six years ago. She asks, “Why did they stop me?
            Is it because I’m black or because I’m Jamaican?” Probably, both – although Houston
            police haven’t said.

            Drug teams interviewed in dozens of airports, train stations and bus terminals and
            along other major highways repeatedly said they didn’t stop travellers based on race. But
            a Pittsburgh Press examination of 121 travellers’ cases in which police found no
            dope, made no arrest, but seized money anyway showed that 77 percent of the people stopped
            were black, Hispanic, or Asian.

            http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/aforfeit.shtml

          • donwalk

            Thats nice!
            Thanks for providing another example of this administration’s lack of regard for due process. Nearly three years ago would mean that it happened under the messiah’s watch also.

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            These cases were from 1986-1990, wokdong.  I am always 3 steps ahead of you.

            That’s why I keep telling you that I really don’t give a hoot about the Gibson case.  If the government is wrong, the government should pay.

            Why don’t you stop hyperventilating?

          • donwalk

            The only time frame in your previous post clearly states “nearly three years ago” imbecile, so you cannot even refer to something in the past and get it correct, lol. Even if it was during 1986-1990, that was another incompetent administration in regards to law enforcement – remember Bill Clinton? Thank you again for being three steps ahead and pointing additional incompetence before I needed to. If you don’t care about the Gibson case, then you don’t care about constitutional rights, thank you again for proving your disregard for individual’s rights and freedoms. Great Job again!

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Wokdong, who was president from 1986-1990??  Ronny Reagan and George Bush, you idiot.

            So please, gather yourself together and wake up.  This is the American justices system.  You just don’t like it because a black man is in power and you are noticing these things are happening to white people.

          • donwalk

            Whoops, My mistake – just finished working a 16 hour shift. I’ll admit to the mistake and apologize! That still doesn’t excuse this administration for their lack of integrity because of something that took place twenty-six years ago, just as well as it doesn’t excuse President Reagan and President Bush. Pretty sad though, that something that old has to be used for justification for today.
            Pretty sick for you to be calling me a racist when you don’t know anything about me, but that is your everyday operational method, now isn’t it? Do you even know if I am black, hispanic, oriental or caucasion? Can you point out any or even one single incident or event where I displayed racism – no, you cannot. It is time for you change your dialogue and use something more than ignorant and simpleton racism charges – try sticking to objective, honest and fair assesments. I don’t like what is happening to Gibson because it is not the Constitutional way, the American way or the equal and fair way. By the way, because I made a mistake in the timeline, that doesn’t change my view of the Clinton years, either. Selling defense and tech secrets to foreign countries, trashing the history of the Whitehouse, lying while under oath, losing your law license while acting President of the United States, etc. etc. is not what this great country is about. Again, my apologies for jumping the gun.

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Pretty sad though, that something that old has to be used for justification for today.

            I only used it so you couldn’t say what you did, blaming it on democrats when it was done under a republican.  These things happen everyday.  This is the only thing I found under a quick search.  Grow up.

            Pretty sick for you to be calling me a racist when you don’t know
            anything about me, but that is your everyday operational method, now
            isn’t it?

            Only I didn’t call you a racist, did I? How can I expect you to use critical thinking if you can’t even get through a simple sentence that reveals you have sympathies for white men, albeit subconsciously, because of a black president in power?

            You act as if this is Obama’s fault and it’s not. Gibson is in this position because of the false documents.

            Deal with it! This is our justice system and if they are wronged, they will get their chance to sue. If not, well, there is a long history of this type of action in our country, isn’t there?

          • donwalk

            Grow up?
            He says as he blindly follows the path of Jeremiah Wright, the destructions of our children and grandchildren’s financial futures and the trampling of our Constitution. You still haven’t justified the actions. Blindly proclaiming “Grow Up” is the best that you have, lol? Maybe you need to go back thirty-four years, or maybe to prio 1776 to support your actions and beliefs?

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Three of your posted comments, directed to me during the past twleve [sic] hours:

            Not in one of those comments were you called a racist.

          • donwalk

            Surely you cannot be as ignorant as you are acting?
            I have highlighted, italicized and underlined your method of calling me a racist – any normal person could not take these comments as anything else.
            1. “Trust me, this didn’t just start happening, you just started paying attention when it’s a black man in power and not white men doing this to everyone else.”
            2. ” And I didn’t call you a racist, but you guys do have race based sensitivities that are occurring and that are largely subconscious to you. That’s blatant and obvious.”
            3. ” You just don’t like it because a black man is in power and you are noticing these things are happening to white people.”
            You have absolutely no credibility!
            Those were just the ones directed to me. Would you like me to post others that you directed to other posters?

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Smdoud

            So you keep asking for alternatives.  So what is the alternative to 
            Ethel Hylton losing her money and not getting it back?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            There is no alternative to law enforcement, they can only do it better.

            That’s why Rob’s argument is so stupid.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            And I didn’t call you a racist, but you guys do have race based sensitivities that are occurring and that are largely subconscious to you.  That’s blatant and obvious.

          • donwalk

            I was just one step ahead of you because based upon past experience and your history of posting you always resort to the racist comments. This latest post proves I was correct – at least you are still consistent in one respect. Where did you get your Doctrate, Mr. Psych?

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Grow up?
            He says as he blindly follows the path of Jeremiah Wright,
            the destructions  of our children and grandchildren’s financial futures
            and the trampling of our Constitution.

            The best I got?  No, I provided a bunch of additional information that you ignored because you can only focus on things that make you react emotionally.

            And crimes take time to investigate.  I can’t help it if you don’t understand our justice system.

            Illegal logging is a crime and false customs documents suggests there is a crime. The crime is being investigated and as a result bad things are happening.

            This is our justice system and it happens to other people everyday.

          • donwalk

            It doesn’t take time to file charges, unless of course the confiscation of products, liberties or assets wasn’t justified to begin with. Additional information such as calling me a “racist” is only valid in your mind.

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Additional information such as calling me a “racist” is only valid in your mind.

            I didn’t call you a racist, but you don’t understand that because you don’t know what racism is. 

          • donwalk

            Three of your posted comments, directed to me during the past twleve hours:
            1. “Trust me, this didn’t just start happening, you just started paying attention when it’s a black man in power and not white men doing this to everyone else.”
            2. ” And I didn’t call you a racist, but you guys do have race based sensitivities that are occurring and that are largely subconscious to you. That’s blatant and obvious.”
            3. ” You just don’t like it because a black man is in power and you are noticing these things are happening to white people.”
            You credibility just went down the toilet in claiming that you didn’t call me a racist. Those were just the ones directed to me. Would you like me to post others that you directed to other posters?
            You may not consider the above quotes as racist name calling, but then you also believe that the economy is improving

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • donwalk

            Three of your posted comments, directed to me during the past twleve hours:
            1. “Trust me, this didn’t just start happening, you just started paying attention when it’s a black man in power and not white men doing this to everyone else.”
            2. ” And I didn’t call you a racist, but you guys do have race based sensitivities that are occurring and that are largely subconscious to you. That’s blatant and obvious.”
            3. ” You just don’t like it because a black man is in power and you are noticing these things are happening to white people.”
            You credibility just went down the toilet in claiming that you didn’t call me a racist. Those were just the ones directed to me. Would you like me to post others that you directed to other posters? You may not consider the above quotes as racist name calling, but then you also believe that the economy is improving

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Racism:

            1. The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or
            abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as…

            2. Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

            I have not accused you of these things, and I have not called you a racist.

            I think you aren’t grasping what I am telling you.

          • donwalk

            Surely you cannot be as ignorant as you are acting?
            I have highlighted, italicized and underlined your method of calling me a racist – any normal person could not take these comments as anything else.
            1. “Trust me, this didn’t just start happening, you just started paying attention when it’s a black man in power and not white men doing this to everyone else.”
            2. ” And I didn’t call you a racist, but you guys do have race based sensitivities that are occurring and that are largely subconscious to you. That’s blatant and obvious.”
            3. ” You just don’t like it because a black man is in power and you are noticing these things are happening to white people.”
            You have absolutely no credibility!
            Those were just the ones directed to me. Would you like me to post others that you directed to other posters?

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Look up the definition of racism.  There is nothing in my sentences that comes remotely close to the definition.

            Racism:

            1. The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or
            abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as…

            2. Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

            I have not accused you of these things, and I have not called you a racist.

            I think you aren’t grasping what I am telling you.

          • donwalk

            You are doing nothing but trying to play word games and semantics. These are your statements: I have added an additional questions for each of your racist accusations, so you can further clarify yourself.
            1. “Trust me, this didn’t just start happening, you just started paying attention when it’s a black man in power and not white men doing this to everyone else.”
            Tell me why I would care if it’s a black man in power, or a white man if you are not calling me a racist? Why would you even put that in your response if your reply was objective?
            2. ” And I didn’t call you a racist, but you guys do have race based sensitivities that are occurring and that are largely subconscious to you. That’s blatant and obvious.”
            Why did you make the accusation of having “race based sensitivities”? Tell me about these race based sensitivities you claim I have – counsel me on them – bring them out of my subconscious?
            3. ” You just don’t like it because a black man is in power and you are noticing these things are happening to white people.”
            Tell me why I don’t like a black man in power if you are not calling me a racist?

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Tell me why I would care if it’s a black man in power, or a white man if
            you are not calling me a racist? Why would you even put that in your
            response if your reply was objective

            I can’t tell you why you would care, but none of you cared when this was happening everyday under other presidents, namely republican presidents, like Reagan and Bush.  Tell my why you didn’t care before.

            It seems clear to me that people like you only now notice it because of the different situation.

            Why did you make the accusation of having “race based sensitivities”?
            Tell me about these race based sensitivities you claim I have – counsel
            me on them – bring them out of my subconscious?

            I just did bring it out of your subconsciousness.  I see it everyday, living in Hawaii, as people come from the mainland and for the first time in their life see that they are not in power and when any little thing happens to them that makes them feel like a victim, they cry unusually loud about things that either never happened to them before but happened to others all around them.

            This is the American justice system you are complaining about.  This happens every year to people.  You are just making an issue about it because for the first time you care, and there is a reason why you care now but never did before.  Tell me why you care now.

          • donwalk

            What makes you think that I didn’t care about total judicial failings before? That is very pre-sumptious of you!
            What do you mean “people like you”? You know nothing about me, except for you own pre-conceaved attitudes because I don’t lean to the left at this time of my life. What would happen if a right leaning individual used that term “people like you”?
            Your 2nd paragraph refers to other people coming to Hawaii, what does that have to do with me?
            I care now because it is happening now, duh!

            Subject: [ndsayanything] Re: Months Later And Still No Federal Charges Against Gibson Guitars

        • suitepotato

          If no law has been broken, and it would seem that is hasn’t given the lack of charges being filed, then they are not enforcing the law, are they? If this was a simple mistake, the materials should have been returned, as they are not in violation, and an apology made. Such has not occured. Clearly, what you are saying does not apply. Anyone but you could see that.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            If no charges have been made, how do you know no laws have been broken? 

            I clearly stated if the government is doing wrong, they will pay.  Gibson is not penniless, he can sue, and win, if he has been wronged.

        • GrimmCreeper

          The law must be enforced, the way laws on our borders are enforced, violations at polling places are enforced, the DOM Act is enforced. 

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6SFIC2IAWIZHDGKGXZOG6NHHFA RussellR

           ‘…the law has to be enforced’?  Who’s enforcing this one?:

          Amendment 5

          No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury,
          except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia,
          when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any
          person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of
          life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a
          witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property,
          without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for
          public use, without just compensation.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Who’s being held?

          • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

            “nor be deprived of… property, without due process of law”

            You are just playing stupid, aren’t you, Hanni?

          • Neiman

            Unfortunately he does not seem musical and so I would rule out playing in that sense, however, as a juvenile, he may be playing a game and is not aware he is being a jackass.

    • mickey_moussaoui

      “Going after the traffickers in illegal materials is economically logical”

      Especially
      when those illegal materials are semi automatic arms to Mexican drug cartels
      and the traffickers are none other than the USDOJ, Eric Holder, right Debbie Hannitized Wasserman Schultz?

    • donwalk

      Kind of like your mentors breaking the law under “Fast and Furious”, right?

    • Tia

       This was not a matter of enforcing the law. It was about abusing the law. The company had the proper paperwork for the country of import, it was out own government who overstepped but not respecting the law.

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        No India filled out the customs documents fraudulently.  That’s just cause right there.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com bikebubba

    One possible reason for the lack of charges is that the law as it’s written has different levels of enforcement for intentional and unintentional violations, and among unintentional violations is further divided into categories of whether due diligence was performed.

    In all levels, it appears that the government is allowed to confiscate the material, whether or not the material actually represents anything that would represent a hazard to the environment or workers.

    Sounds a lot like African law to me.  Or our war on drugs.

    • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

      “unintentional violations” Under the strict letter of this law, if you took a guitar you owned to Canada and then brought it back into the United States, you could be forced to prove where all the wood in it had come from, or risk having it confiscated.

  • Slree

    Appears to me they have broken no law, and certainly not knowingly.  If this is “not Africa”, implying we obey the laws, what about the illegals coming in by the dozens while we speak and Fed govt refuses to act and even sues states that do.  If we are going to support law how about the laws that are really important for the safety of citizens – “securing the common defense” something the Fed govt is supposed to do?  I surmise because Gibson is not unionized, as mentioned above, so there is not enough votes there and illegals vote Democrat not GOP whenever given a chance and as many times as they are given a chance.  Name a guitar company whose ownership supports Dems that has been invaded by the Fed for the same “reasons” and I will stand corrected.

  • http://twitter.com/Dakota_Mel Dakota_Mel

    Thanks for not letting this story drop. I brought it up recently when I was talking to some fellow writers about the dangers of SOPA. They thought it was a good idea because one or two of them have had material pirated. They had never heard about this case, and I wondered what had happened to it. But this is exactly the kind of “shut down” the government can and will force if we allow them that kind of control.

  • awfulorv

    On the other hand these gutless beaurocrats allow far eastern governments, who are signatories to pacts prohibiting such fishing, to slaughter 100.000.000 sharks a year for their fins, which are used for soup. And they say nothing, or very little, of these atrocities. Now I’m just bright enough to know that if you destroy anything in nature, at that rate, you’re asking for trouble. And our president, after two of our soldiers are killed as a result of another incident regarding that infernal book, the Koran, once again shames our country by apologizing to the rabble.

  • j w

    Yeah Well Revolutions Take Revolutionaries …. Maybe America Is The Home of the Enslaved and Gutless  ???

  • Sch9541

    I am going home to hide my guitar, right now

  • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

    FOXAVOIDED DISCUSSION OF GIBSON’S TRACK RECORD

    Whenasked if he sees any reason to suspect that the raid was politically motivated,
    Thomas of the Quinnipiac University School of Law said via email, “none at all.” Rather, it’s important to view the recent raid in the context of the government’s ongoing investigation into Gibson’s wood purchases. Federal agents had previously raided Gibson factories in November 2009 and seized wood from Madagascar.

    Thomas believes that while other companies also import unfinished wood from
    India, Gibson was targeted because of the paperwork irregularities described
    above and because court documents have suggested that Gibson previously
    “knewthat it was buying illegal woods” from Madagascar:

    • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

      FOX LARGELY IGNORED GOVERNMENT’S STATED REASON FOR RAID

      An affidavit filed by career Fish and Wildlife Service official John Rayfield spells out the government’s case for searching Gibson property, as Reuters reported
      on August 25. The affidavit details a recent shipment of Indian ebony wood that was
      intercepted by Customs officials for possible Lacey Act violations and referred
      to the Fish and Wildlife Service. The Customs entry form listed California
      importer Luthier Mercantile International as the final destination for the
      shipment, when in fact, it was bound for Nashville for Gibson Guitars,
      according to the affidavit.

      But that wasn’t the only problem. The affidavit states that the Customs form falsely
      labeled the wood as veneer sheets and listed a false tariff code “to match the false description.” The Indian export declaration also misrepresented the shipment, classifying it under the tariff code for finished parts of musical instruments. The reason this matters is that, according to the affidavit, veneer sheets (less than 6mm) and finished parts are legal to export under Indian law, but unfinished wood larger than 6mm is not. Juszkiewicz contends that the U.S. government has
      misinterpreted Indian law.

      Rayfield says in the affidavit that “Countries generally establish laws and regulations related to the harvest (logging) and export of wood, timber or plants (forest products) in order to manage natural resources and regulate the commercialization of their nation’s natural resources.” The Environmental Investigation Agency, a nonprofit organization that investigates environmental crimes, similarly states:

      • Libertarian42

        So what do you think about the fact that India said there was no wrong doing? They say their law wasn’t broken, yet the Obama Administration is trying to enforce Indian law when in fact, no law has been broken.

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          They filled the customs forms out inaccurately, indicating what was in the box was not how it was labeled, that’s an indication of a crime right there, not mentioning the fact that they also had it going to someone else.

          Looks like Gibson is behaving in an illegal manner, or the Indian company is.

          • Bat One

            They filled the customs forms out inaccurately, indicating what was in the box was not how it was labeled, that’s an indication of a crime right there…

            That’s kinda like filling out a tax form “inaccurately” and winding up with a tax lien for the next seven years, isn’t it?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Nothing at all like what you describe, but you should ask all the GOP criminals who were arrested for fraud, they know all about stuff like that.

          • Bat One

            Your pretense at modesty is amusing, but once again you are WRONG.  Gibson’s inaccuracy filling out customs forms is exactly the same as your “inaccuracy” filling out tax forms.  

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            There appears to be a deliberate attempt to be fraudulent to the customs agents as the destination wasn’t marked as Gibson, although it was intended for Gibson.

            There was no inaccurate documents in regards to the tax I paid late.

          • Bat One

            Nice try, kid!  But no cigar!

            An official in India, who presumably knows something about that country’s laws, fills out a customs form. The Obama/Holder “Fast and Furious” Justice Department, not known for either their legal competence or their integrity, says the form was incorrect, and in the convoluted swamp between your ears that constitutes intentional fraud?

            Meanwhile, your attempt to defraud the government of the taxes you owed, despite your incessant bleating about how you just love paying more and more taxes, well, that was just an innocent error… no harm, no foul?  Good luck selling that one!

            I spent 25 years studying credit reports and tax returns, personal and corporate.  I know just how involved and lengthy the process can be to have a tax lien filed and made public record.  Not only are you a liar… you’re not especially good at it, despite all the practice.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Jeez, you really play fast and loose with the propaganda, eh Bat?

            You really need to work at learning the facts, because you simply don’t know what you are talking about.

            An affidavit filed by career Fish and Wildlife Service official John
            Rayfield spells out the government’s case for searching Gibson property, as
            Reuters reported
            on August 25. The affidavit details a recent shipment of Indian ebony wood that was
            intercepted by Customs officials for possible Lacey Act violations and referred
            to the Fish and Wildlife Service. The Customs entry form listed California
            importer Luthier Mercantile International as the final destination for the
            shipment, when in fact, it was bound for Nashville for Gibson Guitars,
            according to the affidavit.

            But
            that wasn’t the only problem. The affidavit states that the Customs form falsely
            labeled the wood as veneer sheets and listed a false tariff code “to match the
            false description.” The Indian export declaration also misrepresented the
            shipment, classifying it under the tariff code for finished parts of musical
            instruments. The reason this matters is that, according to the affidavit,
            veneer sheets (less than 6mm) and finished parts are legal to export under
            Indian law, but unfinished wood larger than 6mm is not. Juszkiewicz contends that the U.S. government has
            misinterpreted Indian law.

            OUCH!

            Yes, you got it wrong on multiple levels, BO, just like you do on most things.

            So they filled out the customs forms with the wrong destination and the wrong codes for the product and the wrong product.

            Not only THAT, but then there’s the issue of the US Fish and Wildlife Service filling out an affidavit for the justification of the governments actions.

            You just got it wrong all over the place, BO.

            Lastly, you keep trying to make this personal because you have nothing to debate on the subject.  You have no information on the issues you keep trying ot make personal.  So really just stop, you sound like an idiot.  i have an accountant and my accountant didn’t do anything fraudulently, that’s why the government didn’t do anything except collect their money (my money), late.

            The issue you keep focusing on, as if it somehow is relevant is over 5 years old.

          • Guest

             “There was no inaccurate documents in regards to the tax I paid late”

            After the government had to chase you down and force you to pay. Just a couple of more years and your tax lien may fall off your credit report..

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Who cares?  I do most of my purchases with cash.  I am remodeling a home right now with all of my hard earned cash.

            I just bought new carpets, furniture and tools…..cash.

  • http://pocketjacksblog.blogspot.com Jay W.

    I’m actually in the market for a guitar. I’m going to head to the cities in early March to play one of these, among others.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      I’ve always wanted to learn how to play the guitar.  Sadly, i’ve only got enough talent to play a radio.

      • http://pocketjacksblog.blogspot.com Jay W.

        Never too late to start.

      • awfulorv

        There are , on the internet, and free, guitar lessons which are ridiculously easy, check them out.

  • craigslist2

    When I get my next guitar for my comedy show I’ll be sure it’s a Gibson.

  • Spartacus

    So much for your right to a quick and speedy trial when it comes to the Feds. Act first, think later. Then, when you’re tit is in a wringer constitutionally procrastinate and run the accused’s defense fees through the roof. It doesn’t cost the government a penny, tax payers pick up the tab.

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