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Monday, February 25, 2008

Montana Threatens To Secede If Supreme Court Rules Against Individual Gun Rights

A letter sent by Montana’s Secretary of State to the Washington Times:

The U.S. Supreme Court will soon decide D.C. v. Heller, the first case in more than 60 years in which the court will confront the meaning of the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Although Heller is about the constitutionality of the D.C. handgun ban, the court’s decision will have an impact far beyond the District ("Promises breached,” Op-Ed, Thursday).

The court must decide in Heller whether the Second Amendment secures a right for individuals to keep and bear arms or merely grants states the power to arm their militias, the National Guard. This latter view is called the “collective rights” theory.

A collective rights decision by the court would violate the contract by which Montana entered into statehood, called the Compact With the United States and archived at Article I of the Montana Constitution. When Montana and the United States entered into this bilateral contract in 1889, the U.S. approved the right to bear arms in the Montana Constitution, guaranteeing the right of “any person” to bear arms, clearly an individual right.

There was no assertion in 1889 that the Second Amendment was susceptible to a collective rights interpretation, and the parties to the contract understood the Second Amendment to be consistent with the declared Montana constitutional right of “any person” to bear arms.

As a bedrock principle of law, a contract must be honored so as to give effect to the intent of the contracting parties. A collective rights decision by the court in Heller would invoke an era of unilaterally revisable contracts by violating the statehood contract between the United States and Montana, and many other states.

Numerous Montana lawmakers have concurred in a resolution raising this contract-violation issue. It’s posted at progunleaders.org. The United States would do well to keep its contractual promise to the states that the Second Amendment secures an individual right now as it did upon execution of the statehood contract.

BRAD JOHNSON

Montana secretary of state

Helena, Mont.

As radical as it may seem to talk about secession in the modern era of American politics, it’s worth noting that Montana has a point.  The Constitution is a contract drawn up between the federal government and the various, sovereign state governments.  We’ve come a long distance away from that founding ideal of federalism what with the federal government using tortured court rulings and the power of the purse to regulate everything from labor regulations to traffic laws in the various states, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore states’ rights.

One of the conditions of Montana joining the United States was that the individual right to keep and bear arms be preserved.  If a federal court rules that there is no such right after all, even after such a right was asserted when Montana and other states joined the union, it would represent a fantastic and foolhardy departure from the original intent of our nation’s founding documents, not to mention the laws of many states in this union.

Comments

Good for Montana!  Maybe 100 years from now, we’ll have the Dukes of Missoula driving the General Funk?

Bike Bubba on February 25, 2008 at 04:14 pm

Any one know of decent land for sale in Montana..?  Sounds like a place where I would feel at home.

atease


atease

atease on February 25, 2008 at 04:54 pm
Avatar for Steve

Something like this, on a larger scale, say greater than 10 states, would certainly be interesting, especially if they were states with lots of money.

Steve on February 25, 2008 at 05:23 pm
Avatar for Lestat

Something like this, on a larger scale, say greater than 10 states, would certainly be interesting, especially if they were states with lots of money.

That leaves out Montana

Lestat on February 25, 2008 at 05:27 pm
Avatar for Jack

I’d be happy if Jesusland left the Union. That way we could keep the wealth of the blue states in the blue states. Let Jesusland try paying for its own roads, hospitals, and services for a change.

Jack on February 25, 2008 at 06:14 pm

Jack: There are atheists with common sense and common decency, like Rob, with no need to attack Christ or Christians; but your need to denigrate Jesus, people that believe in Him and the people of a beautiful state, only demonstrates the very low degree of your character. There can be no doubt you treat everyone in life, including those in your immediate family with utter contempt, having no love or respect for anyone.

Montana sends a lot of money to the bloodsickers in the nation’s capital, which they can keep for themselves for their infrastructure. Their people are generally hard working and resourceful and would no doubt propsper in every way greater than they have under federal domination.


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on February 25, 2008 at 06:24 pm
Avatar for Jack

Neiman;

I don’t care if you want to live in Jesusland. I just don’t want you to drag us all back to the 19th Century along with y’all.

You’re so easy to offend, N. One little cuss word will send you into a girlish tizzy.

But I must point out something you may not be aware of: Red states are parasites. Red states receive more from the Federal gov’t than they put in.

Frankly, we blue staters are sick and tired of paying for your roads and post offices. So please feel free to fuck off and pay for them yourselves.

Jack on February 25, 2008 at 06:40 pm
Avatar for Jack

States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

source

Jack on February 25, 2008 at 06:49 pm
Avatar for HG

Let Jesusland try paying for its own roads, hospitals, and services for a change.

Jack, ya filthy lib, what about the common good?

HG on February 25, 2008 at 07:13 pm

If Montana thinks things are bad now, wait until Obama or Clinton name two more liberals to the Supreme Court, IF they are elected. We must not let that happen!


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on February 25, 2008 at 07:27 pm

Dude. Jack.
your accusations are erroneous and immature.  Those number’s have no causal connection to republicans.

Compare Neiman’s response to your posts: you are the one in the “girlish tizzy” while he calmly asks you to rethink your demeaner on S.A.B.

dirl126 on February 25, 2008 at 07:55 pm

This is a really crazy stake Montana is saying here.

Has anything like this happened before since the Civil War?

Do they really have the guts?  Would Montana suddenly be a country?

dirl126 on February 25, 2008 at 07:57 pm

When you talk about my beloved home state of Montana, you’re now talking about scores of Hollywood leftists.  Gone are the days when the state is full of gun-totin’ survivalists.  Now it’s the retreat for the rich and famous.  When I lived in Montana, I bumped into tons of Hollywood celebs all the time.  I can’t believe I passed up on regular opportunities to pop Ted Turner right in his filthy kisser!

Clint F on February 25, 2008 at 08:42 pm
Avatar for Montana Mama

As an Ex-Patriot of California (you know where they want to spay and neuter all dogs and cats) and a 3 year resident of Montana I say...hoo-zah..... Montana is both sensible and live and let live and tired as hell at senseless over regulation. I am really sorry that some people abuse guns....this does not mean I should lose my right to own one.

I am sick of being punished for what others do wrong. I am sick of struggling to pay for health insurance when someone who never paid a day of tax gets it free.

If Montana succeeds I say hoo-ray and good-by IRS.

I can’t imagine a better place to redefine the land of the free!

Montana Mama on February 25, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Avatar for Braveheart

Not sure where Jesus came into all of this...have the authors of the posts ever been to Montana ?(or Wyoming or..) People just live their lives here...paying taxes and trying to feed their families. Some are religious some are not...not the point. What someone believes has nothing to do with their RIGHT to bear arms....

What about getting back to the point....things like the Constitution, Bill of Rights etc.

The mama person is correct ...sometimes those “do-good bills” really strip the people who are good of their rights.

Lets keep Jesus and Buddah and Mohammed and Abraham out of it OK.

Pay for our own roads? No problem...wait until you see the toll roads to get to Yellowstone!

Braveheart on February 25, 2008 at 11:09 pm

Neiman;

I don’t care if you want to live in Jesusland. I just don’t want you to drag us all back to the 19th Century along with y’all.

You’re so easy to offend, N. One little cuss word will send you into a girlish tizzy.

But I must point out something you may not be aware of: Red states are parasites. Red states receive more from the Federal gov’t than they put in.

Frankly, we blue staters are sick and tired of paying for your roads and post offices. So please feel free to fuck off and pay for them yourselves.

That is a perfect example of a class act. Typical liberal can’t attack the message so they start throwing f’bombs around.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on February 26, 2008 at 06:36 am
Avatar for Jack

Typical liberal can’t attack the message…

Actually I succesfully rebutted the argument here and here.
I’m not surprised that it when whizzing over your head.

Typical liberal can’t attack the message so they start throwing f’bombs around.

Poor, weak lil’ conservatives. All they have is hate, fear, and namecalling. You’ve certainly never demonstrated anything else, goon. But you’re not strong enough to handle the word “fuck.”

What a weakling you are!

Jack on February 26, 2008 at 06:48 am
Avatar for Jack

Getting back to the original point---the red states are free to leave. Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. Once you’re off our gov’t teat you’ll collapse.

Jack on February 26, 2008 at 06:50 am
Avatar for Jack

OOPS! Forgot the links!

Actually I succesfully rebutted the argument here and here.

Mea culpa.

Jack on February 26, 2008 at 06:53 am

Hey Jack go f’ yourself, you sound like a Liberal moron.
The Red states would love to get rid of youre liberal hand out seeking blue states.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on February 26, 2008 at 06:56 am
Avatar for Jack

The Red states would love to get rid of youre liberal hand out seeking blue states.

What does it take you to understand that it’s the red states that have their hand out, siphoning cash from blue states? I realize that conservatives are factually challenges so I’m willing to spoonfeed it to you. Is there any way I can dumb it down enough for you?

Jack on February 26, 2008 at 06:59 am
Avatar for Jack

The Red states would love to get rid of youre liberal hand out seeking blue states.

What does it take you to understand that it’s the red states that have their hand out, siphoning cash from blue states? I realize that conservatives are factually challenges so I’m willing to spoonfeed it to you. Is there any way I can dumb it down enough for you?

Jack on February 26, 2008 at 07:00 am

OOOOHHHH Jack please entertain us with your wit and your flare.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on February 26, 2008 at 07:37 am
Avatar for Jack

Nice comeback, goon. How long did it take you to come up with that?

Jack on February 26, 2008 at 07:55 am
Avatar for ec99

"As an Ex-Patriot”

Did you play for them while Brady was QB?

ec99 on February 26, 2008 at 08:04 am
Avatar for Montana Mama

RED state, BLUE state
What happened to the UNITED States?
The point is the FEDERAL goverment is trying to make a ruling that breaks a contract with and that will impact a STATE.

Does it matter which STATE?

Ever try to explain to a child the whole red/blue state thing...they look at you like you are out of your mind (because they still are being taught patriotism).

As for Montana.. we have a DEM Governor and a mostly REP representatives other wise.....seems to work pretty well and balance. All citizens pay their federal taxes and those roads you refer to are open to travel for any one, any state.

Getting people heated and swearing at each other does well to make everyone look pretty silly and also keeps us distracted.

10% of the population in the US have homes in foreclosure, people are in trouble and our nation is at war with a group of zealots that is gaining strength and have no qualms about killing unarmed men women and children.

This is not the time to take away rights from US Citizens (no matter what state) it is time to protect our citizens and enforce laws that make people who enter our country live by the same rules we do (including paying taxes) and not just sucking off the fruits of everyone elses labor.

My family in California has no health insurace but they get to watch as streams of non citizens march into the free clincs and hospitals for free health care.

So the fact that Montana DEMS and REPS have the guts to say ENOUGH to the feds one even one issue just makes proud and have hope that others will wake up before we have lost all our rights!

Montana Mama on February 26, 2008 at 12:19 pm

You’ll notice that jackoff did not even touch the actual subject of the post. As usual. It threw links to bullshit that has been thoroughly discredited, repeatedly. Simple fact, all States have the right to leave the Union.

As for DCvHeller, it comes down to whether or not the Bill of Rights and Constitution mean, in point of fact, what they say? Or are we the property of judiciary?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on February 26, 2008 at 12:35 pm

2hotel9: You will be the property of the judiciary if Obama or Clinton have the next 4 to 8 years to reshape the Court in their image, with a liberal senate to rubber-stamp their choices.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on February 26, 2008 at 02:02 pm

2Hotel9 is right, leave it to a lefty to dance around and say nothing all the while making a bunch of noise…


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on February 26, 2008 at 02:10 pm
Avatar for montanaicewease;

We currently get more than we pay but we have huge potential, it’s just the environmentalists have limited our output.

Timber

Forests cover about 23,000,000 acres (9,300,000 hectares) or almost one-quarter of Montana. More than 14,000,000 acres (5,700,00 hectares) of this total are commercial forest. The manufacture of lumber and wood products is the state’s leading industrial activity. Montana is one of the nation’s top producers of softwood logs, most of which are processed into lumber at Montana sawmills.

Agriculture

Agriculture is Montana’s leading industry. In 2000 there were about 27,600 farms and ranches in Montana, working 56,700,000 acres. The proportion of Montana land currently included in farms and ranches is approximately 65 percent. Large-scale farming is the rule, with the average operation involving 2,054 acres. The state includes 1,600,000 acres of irrigated cropland.

Since the early 1990s, Montana farmers and ranchers have been directly responsible for about 11 percent of all economic output in the state, with products valued at over $2 billion a year. In 2000 Montana exported agricultural commodities totaling $259,800,000.

Montana produces barley, rice, oats, corn, hay, sugar beets, and some specialized “niche crops” (like mint), but its main crop focus is wheat. Montana is third among wheat-producing states in the U.S. Despite another drought year in 2000, the state produced 135,210,000 bushels of wheat.

Montana farmers and ranchers raise hogs, sheep, dairy cattle, llamas, and horses. However, beef cattle dominate Montana’s livestock scene, and rising market prices the last two years have improved the industry. Together, wheat and beef provide almost 75 percent of the income received by operators from the sale of their commodities. In 1999 there were 2,700,000 cattle in Montana, or almost 3 head per human resident!

Mineral Production

Montana contains vast deposits of two important minerals--coal and petroleum. Its coal reserves are the largest in the nation, and its undeveloped oil and natural gas holdings are equally impressive. The mountain ranges of central, southern, and western Montana hold large ore deposits, including copper, gold, lead, silver, and zinc.

The state also is a national leader in the production of talc, vermiculite, platinum, and palladium.

Oh and we have over 200 ICBM nukes........Which would make us the world 4th largest nuclear power.  rasberry

Think about the “Enslaved American” businesses that would love to operate without all the Federal taxes and regulatory bullshit.

montanaicewease; on February 26, 2008 at 07:58 pm

Jack - I’d be happy if Jesusland left the Union. That way we could keep the wealth of the blue states in the blue states.

What are you going to eat? Forget the government teat, you are directly on the teat of the “red states” or “Jesusland” if you prefer.

Now what, Jack? You’ve got to eat. It would be stupid to turn your back on the best breadbasket in the world.

Let Jesusland try paying for its own roads, hospitals, and services for a change.

Are you arguing in favor of federalism? Against farm subsidizes and liberal economics?

Welcome aboard. Maybe now you’re starting to get it.

likwidshoe on February 26, 2008 at 08:35 pm
Avatar for runjdgreen

all States have the right to leave the Union

isn’t this what the whole thing is about...rights?

Does it matter if its gun rights, secesion rights, or the most forgotten and distorted right to free speech?

If we can’t talk to each other, discuss things in an open, honest way without attempting to bring politics into it, destroy the other person, push personal agendas,etc,then we might as well close up shop and go home because we’ll be done as a nation.

And goon, God bless you but, End Socialism Vote Republican ...man, you got forget the parties. The republicans are throwing us under the bus too. We all talk about being sick of politics as usual. John McCain? Are you kidding me? HE IS WASHINGTON!! Of course Clinton or Obama are in no way a viable alternative, but is John McCain? Where there any real alternatives in the republican line up? Montana has, in my opinion, the only real answer to the solution...remove yourself from the problem. I’m moving there if they secede, if I have to start in a cardboard box. At least I’ll have a GENUINE opportunity to better myself.

runjdgreen on February 27, 2008 at 09:41 am

So, because things have become too bad, you are going to quit and leave the country if Montana secedes?!

Pffft.
You wussy

dirl126 on February 27, 2008 at 11:09 am
Avatar for runjdgreen

dirl126, thanks for making my point

runjdgreen on February 27, 2008 at 11:57 am
Avatar for Brian

Simple vote ROn Paul and rights are saved for all states.
Welcome back America… Stop socialism and big government republicans.. Vote Ron Paul an other who run like him.  If you dont like the country and government is the problem be the solution and run for office.

Brian on February 27, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Avatar for Robert Pattillo

Ive got my bags packed!

Robert Pattillo on February 27, 2008 at 05:32 pm
Avatar for Ray

Jack you’re the stereotypical liberal buffoon, throwing stats around as if you understand the implications… the politicians are having their way with you.
If you’d pop your head out you’d realize that there’s no such thing as a blue state, it’s strictly the metro areas that drag the unfortunate down with them.  The cities are full of beggers and criminals and saps like you who just want to write a check to the gov’t to make it all go away.
Montana is apparently one of the states that still has Americans running it.  It’s the rest of you socialist wanna-bes that are seceeding from America, Montana is just refusing to go along.

Ray on March 16, 2008 at 08:57 pm
Avatar for Hannitized

Jack you’re the stereotypical liberal buffoon, throwing stats around as if you understand the implications… the politicians are having their way with you.

HA!  Notice, if you will (read: can) that the lil weakling, name-calling, typical R didn’t make a single argument to counter your stats or argument.  He merely objected to your use of stats. 

Republicans have been taught to stop thinking for themselves and listening to facts and little people called journalists.  Now they get their brain food from Rush.  Pathetic.

Why don’t you refute his evidence with FACTS, Ray?? 

Got balls?

Hannitized on March 16, 2008 at 10:17 pm

The facts are that racebaitingpovertypimp Democrats fuck up everything you touch, sannitized.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on March 17, 2008 at 03:59 am

HA!  Notice, if you will (read: can) that the lil weakling, name-calling, typical R didn’t make a single argument to counter your stats or argument.  He merely objected to your use of stats.

HA!  Ray: Notice, if you will that the lil, weakling, name-calling, typical petulant child Hannitized didn’t make a single argument to counter you either.  He merely objected to your objection!.
(The rest of his rant merely proves that he can type with one hand!) It would be just as accurate an assumption (Hannitized is really big on assumptions!) for us to say: Democrats have been taught to stop thinking for themselves and listening to facts.  Now they get their brain food from Randi Rhodes and Keith Olbermann.  Pathetic.

But, you see, that would be an assumption not based on facts (Hannitized’s specialty!), because we know for a fact, that nearly no one listens to Randi Rhodes and Keith Olbermann!



A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

Proof on March 17, 2008 at 04:41 am
Avatar for Montana mama

Wow… I was about to turn my middle school son onto this thread...states rights are a pretty interesting topic and then (as usual) someone has to get on and start the thing onto both a political agenda and then throwing the trashy language all over. Sorry folks...I am still one of those folks that teach my kids NOT to show their lack of vocabulary by useing foul language.  I encourage them to think through topics and present their points of view and LISTEN to anothers. In my life I have voted and have voted both Dem and Rep because I voted for the candidate and what he (she) stands for.
Wish you folks would read what you write and then see if it was something you would be proud to show your mom or your child...if not...well then rethink and have an actual conversation and not a war with people from your own country,,,,,, keep this up and unified countries will someday control us!

Montana mama on March 18, 2008 at 01:14 pm

and then (as usual) someone has to get on and start the thing onto both a political agenda and then throwing the trashy language all over.

The political agenda comes with the territory, but you do have a point about the foul language. Good lookin’ out Montana mama.

likwidshoe on March 18, 2008 at 01:18 pm

Montana Momma:  The foul language used by some on this site [as on some others], is inexcusable and tasteless. But, there are many thoughtful contributions too. Like a farm field, you just have to watch where you step…


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on March 18, 2008 at 01:25 pm

Montana Momma...Because another adult expresses their opinions in ways displeasing to you doesn’t mean that person should be excluded from participating or expressing their 1st amendment right.
The majority of discussions on SA are fine for middle school age students. Occasionally, a few vulgar words are opined, but as a one time teacher myself .. chances are your child has been exposed to far more extreme language than one experiences on SA


flag002.gif washC.gif

Anna on March 18, 2008 at 02:15 pm

...doesn’t mean that person should be excluded from participating or expressing their 1st amendment right.

Oh, come on. That’s not fair.

And besides, this is a blog. There are no 1st Amendment rights here. This is Rob’s private property. He’s extended an invitation to all of us and he can revoke that invitation at any time for any reason.

likwidshoe on March 18, 2008 at 02:22 pm
Avatar for paul vincent zecchino

Doesn’t Montana sound like a fine place to live? Congratulations to Montana for its brave stance. Now it’s time to void the rotten, subversive Lautenberg Law which unlawfully disarms law abiding citizens saddled with restraining orders pimped off by societal termites.

You can read more about my adventures in Second Ammendment Rights violations and Judicial Terrorism by Googling ‘Perjury Pat Stoye’, ‘Paul Vincent Zecchino’, and ‘George Allen Wilson, II’.

These spirochetes violated our rights and left my family vulnerable to mob-affiliate grifters who pimped off lies in court to obtain a garbage restraining order. How very tedious of them.

Eventually, this a/wipe court malfeasance expired. Then I exposed these gun-hating anti-life looters. They’ve an eye for oppression but not the stomach for it. They’re currently whining to corrupt courts because I did the unthinkable. Heeding old friend Gennifer Flowers’ advice, I went public on these vomitose criminals.

First, always, expose those who would take your liberty. That which they do in secret cannot survive daylight. Gun haters may buy justice and they surely have accomplices in the so-called mainstream media. But they’ll never fool American citizens who value liberty and detest tyranny in all forms, particularly that pimped off by pouffie cowards with law degrees who pimp lies to violate our rights.

Gun rights mean just that: rights, immune to usurpation by tinpot crooks pimping twisted agendas.

Congratulations to Montana for saying what many have long known to be true. Gun Control is about control, not crime prevention. That’s why the US Supreme Court at long last appears to be calling bullshale on gun-hating cranks and their tiresome arguments. We’ve suffered these maggots lies long enough. Every spook story told by gun-haters has been proven false. Every phony claim pimped by gun-controllers has been shown to be just that - phony.

Dr. Paul Vincent Zecchino
Manasota Key, Florida
20 March, 2008

paul vincent zecchino on March 20, 2008 at 06:08 am
Avatar for Montana Mama

I am all for the right of free speech...but even the FCC thinks that “public” airwaves need to have some safe spots. I guess you can argue the “net” is not free.Of course my middle schooler has been exposed to foul language (and a lot of other things) and thats where we as parents come in in offering our kids the reasons why not to opt in to certain things that demean them or others. So I would not purposely rub their noses in something that had gone awol with bad language or personal attacks....and this is too bad becasue there is alot of interesting discussion going on here.

Don’t get me wrong...or stereotype me as a “hick” I am Chicago bred with 2 masters degrees and my husband is a PhD. Montana became an alternative for our family when we looked for a place where we could raise kids without locked doors or where they could jump on their quad or horse and go off for the day without us being in panic about predators (yah they exist here but not to scale with other places and punishment in MT is swift and to the point .This is also a place where neigbors still watch out as well). Montana also spends less time regulating personal freedoms and encourages its citizens to use some common sense. 
ANYWAY....
my point is that when I read personal assaults or the trash language it detracts from the message the person is trying to get out there.

As for guns.....first of all it is our right to own a gun to protect ourselves and in Montana guns are not weapons but sports equipment. People hunt and I am OK with it....
If they didn’t deer would over populate and die. I think bow and arrow would be a more sportsman like match but hey...its not my sport and I don’t judge. I learned to handle guns just this year… a handgun and a shotgun.

So folks...for states to take back some of their power is OK by me… When a Vice President of the US in response to an interviewers question about the huge percentage of the population being against the war says “SO” I say people need to be as vocal as possible so both blue and red understand what the red white and blue really want!

Montana Mama on March 20, 2008 at 01:40 pm
Avatar for Jack #2

Fuck you, Jack… you Jack ass. You give us other Jacks a bad name.

Now go jack off....

Jack #2 on March 28, 2008 at 10:57 pm

Montana Mama - When a Vice President of the US in response to an interviewers question about the huge percentage of the population being against the war says “SO”...

I think that is the proper response to fickle public opinion. At the start of the war, 75% of people were for the war. Now some of those people are not.

Cheney was right in regards to people being against the war - so?

likwidshoe on March 28, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Avatar for MontanaMama

The US citizens were terrified by the actions of 911. They were led to believe that ther were weapons of mass destruction. They were NOT paying $4 a gal for gas and losing their homes and jobs and SONS.
The public has a right to change their minds and Cheney should care what the public thinks...we are his employer!

The North Koreans have WMD’s but where is the war (not that I want one)...ah but they don’t have oil!

MontanaMama on May 13, 2008 at 10:43 am

Montana has oil. Why aren’t you pumping and refining it? Whose fault is that major mistake?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on May 13, 2008 at 03:40 pm

2. North Dakota ($2.03)

Jack, couldn’t the reason North Dakota gets all that federal funding in pork legislation be due to the big three “blue” congressman that represent this state?  Stupid lib…



A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers.

dougee on May 13, 2008 at 03:50 pm

The public has a right to change their minds and Cheney should care what the public thinks...we are his employer!

Sometimes you have to look past public opinion polls when the public doesn’t know all of the facts. I’m sure that there are a lot of terrorist threats that the American public have not been informed about.  An administration could care about what the people think but desregard it if it would make the country less secure.



A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers.

dougee on May 13, 2008 at 03:56 pm

MontanaMoma - The North Koreans have WMD’s but where is the war (not that I want one)...ah but they don’t have oil!

Ah yes, it’s all a conspiracy.

Where is that oil, anyway? Maybe someone who is “Chicago bred with 2 masters degrees” can explain this hole in the conspiracy.

likwidshoe on May 15, 2008 at 01:20 am
Avatar for MontanaMama

Montana has a number of minerals but I can’t pump nor mine them...people may own property but not mineral rights.

Alaska WANTS to go for the black gold (oil) but even if that ball gets rolling they still need refineries.

The OBSCENE profits oil companies are making is not translated JST to the price at the gas pump...it comes in the form of increased prices in groceries and other commodities… and MORE and MORE people are losing jobs daily.. Hey I don’t care which political party you support...don’t you thin the nation is in serious trouble economicaly?

MontanaMama on May 28, 2008 at 11:03 pm

Hey I don’t care which political party you support...don’t you thin the nation is in serious trouble economicaly?

With 5 percent unemployment, hardly.  You obviously have no idea of the cost required to explore and develop mineral extraction (includes oil).  That’s where those so-called obscene profits would go if the states and the Feds would permit it.


The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

docdave on May 29, 2008 at 01:41 am

Do they really have the guts?  Would Montana suddenly be a country?

There would never have been a United States of America if state soveriegnity was not upheld.  If anything the Feds has already broken every covenant that they have made with every one of the sovereign states.

The southern states tried to exercise the option of leaving the union and would have succeeded had they not been tricked to fired on Fort Sumter which created the excuse for the Feds to wage the war against the seceded states.


The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

docdave on May 29, 2008 at 02:00 am

And socializing industry is your big idea, MM? Tell us, who are you going to round up and use as slave labor in your socialist paradise? We are waiting with bated breath, enlighten us!


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on May 29, 2008 at 03:54 am
Avatar for Rob

Go Montana!

Rob on May 29, 2008 at 05:39 pm
Avatar for Eat Shit

Hey Jack! Fuck YOU!

Eat Shit on May 30, 2008 at 11:54 am

ES? Sockpupetry is gay. Why don’t you go to CA and marry yourself?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on May 30, 2008 at 03:40 pm
Avatar for bob

imagine if all the red states you so hate decided to leave the union, do you have any idea how much oil and gas the red states have? especially TX, OK

bob on June 2, 2008 at 07:04 pm
Avatar for Shell

Great thoughts Bob! All us Red States would have the oil and resources. Let the Blue States use the bikes and scooters to get to their NRDC meetings. Here’s to Montana from a jealous Florida resident. Charlie Christ is turning our state into a blue state. Montana, here we come!

Shell on June 4, 2008 at 09:12 am
Avatar for Dennis

I knew I liked Montana and bought property out there for a reason. Whooohooo. I actually hope that the Supreme court Rules that it is an individual right and puts an end to these states and townships that ban ownership of guns or certain kinds of guns. But I can only imagine that if the Supreme Court Rules the other way and Montana Suceded from the United States that My property Value will only go through the freaking roof....

Dennis on June 12, 2008 at 11:54 am
Avatar for Mr. Patriot

Montana could not survive as its own country. This is a bluff in the usual fashion of Repubs when they don’t get their own way.

All things change, and so do contract agreements. What if that agreement to join the union said Montanians could hunt as much buffalo as they wanted to? It was fine back then but… things have changed. And so it is with guns.

I don’t think guns should be outlawed as I own a few myself. And God help the fool who breaks into my house! But, as with all dangerous things (i.e. drugs, cars, alcohol) guns should be registered and licensed. Gun owners should have to attend and pass a gun safety course. We have to get a drivers license and get insurance to drive a car. Which is more dangerous, a car or a gun?

This isn’t a red state versus blue state issue. It’s a common sense and safety issue.

If Montana were as populated as some of our large metropolitan areas they would see the same gun problems we do and think differently.

Repubs and NRA lovers should stop being so scarred of that “slippery slope” and start being more concerned with being a part of stopping gun crime.

Happy Father’s Day to all and God bless Tim Russert’s family!

Mr. Patriot on June 14, 2008 at 07:31 am

Oh, yea, mr pissant, you moron leftards have been so successful at stopping gun crime in DC, New York, Chicago, LA, etc etc. What a joke.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on June 14, 2008 at 07:42 am

Repubs and NRA lovers should stop being so scarred of that “slippery slope” and start being more concerned with being a part of stopping gun crime.

Scarred? I have some scars I got as a child and a couple I got on the job, but I’ve never been scarred by a slippery slope!
Three generations of gun owners (probably more- three I can attest to personally!) -my father, my sons and I have all owned guns with nary a gun crime in sight!
The NRA has sponsored legislation to increase the penalties for anyone using a gun in the commission of a crime. The way to eliminate gun crime is to deal harshly with the criminals who choose to use them, not to disarm law abiding citizens.
Those you cannot deter with the threat of greater punishment, you remove from society.

BTW: A lot of Democrats own guns and believe in the Second Amendment. Keep trying to make this a partisan issue and those Democrats will have no choice except to become the “Repubs” you love so much!



A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

Proof on June 14, 2008 at 08:16 am

Re: Brad Johnson, Montana secretary of state

Bully to you suh! Bully! Bully, I say!

As TDR might have said it. 

Having read the back-and-forth here, I think most of the thread was pretty much hijacked by Leftist invective and misdirection. 

The question remains whether the SCOTUS can alter the plain meaning and original intent of the Bill of Rights so far as to completely invert and thereby repeal a fundamental right without having to go through the Constitutional amending process?

As a Constitutionalist (which would be the name of my chosen New Party) the answer is clearly no.  But for Leftists, the use of any argument is not the ultimate truth or merit of the argument, but how it will work for them at the moment

They can, and often do, pivot 180 degrees and argue in the exact opposite direction, if that direction works for them, at the moment

Probably the most glaring example of the Leftist volte face is the Feminist silence and compliance with William Jefferson Benedict Arnold Clintons’ pawing of Katherine Willy, use of state troopers to round up Paula Jones, his dalliance with daughter-aged Monica Lewinsky and alleged rape of Juanita Broaddrick.  Any one of those actions far outstripped the allegations against Sen. Bob Packwood or judicial nominee Clarence Thomas, but that didn’t prevent the Feminazi hounds from being unleashed against them.

Yet for Slick Willy, it was all Move On Dot Org, move along folks, there’s nothing to see here.

This sort of opportunistic reinterpretation of plain words and meanings, both in and out of the Constitution is something to be reckoned with.

Insofar as what difference there will be between judicial nominees presented by either candidate remains to be seen.  McCain has been connected to Ueber-Leftist George Soros’ purse strings since at least 2001.  McCain’s future actions might well be guided by the virtual WWSD bracelet McCain wears (What Would Soros Do? )


...for great justice

Move_Zig on June 14, 2008 at 08:48 am
Avatar for Hitlery Clintler

The liberal posters on this site prove that Dr. Lyle Rossiter is right, LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER.
Look up his articles or read his books and see if he isn’t right on.

Hitlery Clintler on June 14, 2008 at 09:23 pm
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