Friedman’s ideas have failed. Why would his ideas about health care be any better?
http://tldr.de/ Arecibo
What failed, precisely?
DINO
Markets are not self-regulating. We adopted Friedman’s ideas as the basis for the conservative movement. After 30 years of pursuing those policies we nearly collapsed and are in deep debt.
That’s failure.
http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon
What failed, precisely?
DINO doesn’t have a clue what he is babbling about.
Bat One
Friedman’s ideas haven’t failed at all. Far from it. It is the anti-free market Left that is an abject failure. Just look at the federal budget deficit. At least, this week’s version.
Free market capitalism creates wealth. Socialism doesn’t. Socialism merely appropriates the wealth from the productive and then re-distributes it to those who aren’t productive. Free market capitalism fosters and rewards enterprise. Socialism rewards sloth… and it does so with other people’s money.
robert108
Markets are not self-regulating.
They are if the govt doesn’t try to rig them to get a predetermined social outcome. It is social engineering that can’t regulate itself. Govt run medicine doesn’t work because no one is there to make discretionary fiscal decisions, so costs just spiral out of control. Look at every govt entitlement program.
DINO
Empty platitudes from Bat.
Free market reforms and deregulation along with irresponsible tax cuts created the mess we’re in.
Only a total idiot would discount the effects of the recession on the deficit. In fact, deficits were predicted to increase years ago as the effects of bush policies gained momentum. The downturn only made things worse. The downturn that started in December 2007 following years of republican malfeasance..
The party in power for most of the last 30 years who applied Friedman’s policies are responsible for our situation.
robert108
BTW: They’re not “Friedman’s ideas”; they’re basic principles of economics. They are the way things work in the real world.
It’s Obama’s “spend now, tax later” ideas that don’t work.
The mess we’re in now was originally caused by Dem market-rigging for social engineering purposes, and has been made worse by Obama’s insane abandonment of any fiscal responsibility whatsoever. It’s the opposite of free market principles that have failed, and will continue to fail.
Bat One
In fact, deficits were predicted to increase years ago as the effects of bush policies gained momentum.
Really??? And just WHO was it that made such a stupid prediction, Swish? Got a URL you could cite? It certainly couldn’t have been a responsible economist. Must have been Krugman!
robert108
Deficits increase because of spending, and Obama’s insane, runaway spending has created the biggest deficits ever.
Tax rate cuts increase revenue.
Mongol
So much stupidity could be avoided if people would just read “Wealth of the nations”. Capitalism failed, Freedman failed, markets not regulating themselves…. blah blah blah. It not very different from a madman convincing himself that there is no law of gravity and then jumping off a multistory building. The results are the same… just ask those from the former USSR. And yet Van Jones (the paranoid commie idiot who can’t even talk clearly) and the likes of him, some certain persons on this blog come to mind, continue to insist on commie philosophy. To paraphrase an old proverb, doesn’t matter how many times one says communism makes sense, the reality doesn’t change.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd
The problem with the deficit it crazy ass spending by Congress.
Bat One
So much stupidity could be avoided if people would just read “Wealth of Nations”.
- Mongol
It takes wisdom to recognize wisdom. The music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
- Walter Winchell
Mongol
I agree Bat1, but stupidity is also learned. Sometimes if you help people to think thru their beliefs rationally, you’d be surprised. I see that with a lot of high school and college students pretty often. It’s not that they can’t understand, it is that they are taught to think with their emotions. I mean really, look even at Van Jones. Emotions (granted pretty angry ones) is all he can give in his speech.
Now not everyone can be reasoned with. There are plenty of “dino”s who are convinced that if they just keep repeating their mantra and maintain their narrow views, the socialism/marxism will somehow work. You know cause there is really “no spoon” lol. But all in all these type of hardened bigots are rare, and hence an effort must be made to reach out to every liberal in an appropriate setting (hopefully soon to be former liberal). If a liberal is a hardened emotioner, let him/her be, don’t waste a lot of time and go to the next one. From my experience there are only about 10-25% of emotioners. The rest can successfully be reasoned with and helped to think critically. Look at me for example, I went thru marxist indoctrination in ex USSR schools and yet there was hope for me also.
So in conclusion, be prepared, be rational, be informed and polite, ignore the bigots (just keep an eye out for physical violence from them).
Bat One
Mongol,
I don’t disagree with your assessment, or your advice, which is why I take the time to answer so much of the stupidity that Dino and Hannitized and the other trolls burble. There ARE others out there who CAN be shown the sheer foolishness of the path down which Obama and the “progressives” are leading us.
The economy, the value of the dollar, and our nation’s employment situation will all recover, in spite of the efforts of Obama and the Democrats. Its that “American Exceptionalism” the Rodney mentioned earlier.
Brent
Yeah, Mongol, except that Bat One is a hardened communist central planner when it comes to the most important good in an advanced economy (one that has risen out of primitive barter) — that is, money.
robert108
Look at me for example, I went thru marxist indoctrination in ex USSR schools and yet there was hope for me also.
The generation that was raised during the “Cultural Revolution” in China was the same generation that demonstrated at Tiananmen Square. Human desire for freedom is universal, and can only be suppressed by violent coercion, but never completely killed.
robert108
So, Brent is a “golder”.
Bat One
Great! Another Lilli-Paulian!
Brent,
Since you chose to pick this fight, suppose you explain, or try to, what sort of structure you would replace our nation’s central bank with, and how you would go about insuring the stability and purchasing power of the US dollar.
Think you’re up to it?
Hannitized
Friedman’s ideas haven’t failed at all. Far from it. It is the anti-free market Left that is an abject failure. Just look at the federal budget deficit. At least, this week’s version.
Our health insurance rates are exorbitant, largely because the free market pushes onto us the costs of the Healthcare business failure to provide affordable health care to people who can not afford it.
There are people running around without heath care and this cost being pushed on to us, as well as the free market creating death panels who determine who gets how much care, when a person who enters an ER needs emergency medical attention.
The free market approach to providing healthcare is an abject failure.
robert108
Our health insurance rates are exorbitant, largely because the free market pushes onto us the costs of the Healthcare business failure to provide affordable health care to people who can not afford it.
Wrong again, dumbass! In a free market, insurance would not be necessary for normal doctor visits and minor procedures. At present, the govt penetration of the healthcare industry is in the neighborhood of 45%, which is the real reason why the rates are higher than they would be in a free market situation where supply is allowed to rise to meet the demand, thus keeping prices low.
As usual, little H, you demonstrate your total lack of knowledge of economics.
The free market approach to providing healthcare is an abject failure.
It has yet to be tried, ignoramus! The govt, through regulations authored by the AMA, has always regulated to supply of doctors. Now, govt regulates the prices, which always drives up costs.
You know nothing.
robert108
BTW, the free market does not “provide”; it allows people to provide for themselves through making free choices, while suppliers seek to offer what people want, at affordable prices.
It’s better for everybody.
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny
Our health insurance rates are exorbitant, largely because the free market pushes onto us the costs of the Healthcare business failure to provide affordable health care to people who can not afford it.
Of course, the opposite is true. The “free market” doesn’t demand that people without money get treatment. That’s government. So if that is truly the problem, as Hanni suggests, then the blame is fully on the gov’t.
But Hanni is wrong, and the problem is too much government. States add ridiculous mandates into health insurance: single men being forced to carry pregnancy insurance, or insurance for botox or mental health. The government made health insurance expensive, and now it demands more control to fix the problems it made.
There are people running around without heath care and this cost being pushed on to us, as well as the free market creating death panels who determine who gets how much care, when a person who enters an ER needs emergency medical attention.
Every American, including illegal aliens, has access to health care. No hospital in the country is allowed to refuse you service if you can’t pay.
And of course there are no death panels because private markets cannot deny you care, only whether or not they will pay for it. The ability to get something for free, and the ability to get something are two different things.
The free market approach to providing healthcare is an abject failure.
Obviously it’s not. But liberals will tell any lie to get their way.
Hannitized
The “free market” doesn’t demand that people without money get treatment. That’s government.
Yeah, that’s a lie. Try walking into the ER and see how many people they turn away……and when then don’t, see if it’s because any government big brother is standing over their shoulder.
What Kenny is asking for is death panels and putting granny and little Billy out to die if they can not afford healthcare.
Every American, including illegal aliens, has access to health care. No hospital in the country is allowed to refuse you service if you can’t pay.
Now Kenny is endorsing my first statement, after having argued against it. Crazy talk much?
I never said they don’t have access to emergency care, I said there are people running around without health care, and that cost is being pushed onto the those who can currently afford it, such as businesses and private individuals.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd
For my money, I think that a well run fiat money is better than one that relies on the vagaries of the global gold market.
However I’m not saying the Federal Disserve is well run or has EVER been that well run.
Bat One
The free market approach to providing healthcare is an abject failure.
The only failures are your abject failure at rational thought, and the Left’s ongoing failure at being honest… yours included.
What you are really saying here, though hardly very well, is that not everyone in this country has the same level of health care, and that to a large extent that disparity is a function of income disparity. Some people are getting much more ready access to much better quality health care, largely because they can afford it. Others cannot afford that level of care, or choose for whatever reasons not to avail themselves of it.
As for the dishonesty, that starts with your unspoken premise that there is some sort of “right” to a particular, as yet unidentified, level of health care, and that “right” should be mandated and enforced by the federal government no matter what the cost or who winds up with the bill.
I never said they don’t have access to emergency care, I said there are people running around without health care, and that cost is being pushed onto the those who can currently afford it, such as businesses and private individuals.
Perhaps if you could manage a credible explanation of the difference between “emergency care” and “health care” and why the former is not an acceptable form of the latter.
As for those costs being “pushed” onto those who can currently afford it, I wonder if you can explain where the money for ObamaCare would be coming from?
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny
Yeah, that’s a lie. Try walking into the ER and see how many people they turn away……and when then don’t, see if it’s because any government big brother is standing over their shoulder.
ERs aren’t allowed by law to turn anyone away. I’ve sat in ERs for hours and watched people with no insurance come in. Insurance isn’t even checked during emergencies. Again, this is a massive lie.
Now Kenny is endorsing my first statement, after having argued against it. Crazy talk much?
This isn’t why insurance is unaffordable. And, even if it was, this is not a failing of the free market. I’m not saying you’re right here. There is no one without access to health care. Sorry.
What Kenny is asking for is death panels and putting granny and little Billy out to die if they can not afford healthcare.
Of course that TOTALLY represents my position. Yup, hospitals not refusing to treat anyone TOTALLY sounds like a death panel.
Not that I’d expect more out of someone who can’t do basic math, or read.
WOOFX
Nine and a half minutes of Milton Friedman,
thecynicaleconomist is a cockeyed optimist.
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