Mike Huckabee: Under Obama Care, Ted Kennedy Would Have Had To “Take Pain Pills And Die”

Cue several weeks of outrageously outraged carping about the politicizing of the “liberal lion’s” death, etc, etc. But while the liberals, desperate to get out from under the losing streak they’ve had on health care, try to make the debate about the nature of the debate it’s worth noting that Huckabee isn’t wrong.
It’s a little funny to hear this coming from a southern-fried populist like Huckabee, who at one time was advocating for a national smoking ban, but even so. He’s not wrong.


I posted a week ago about a Politico article which pointed out that even as the then-still-alive Kennedy called for all Americans to have access to the same level of health care as Senators he was pursuing the exact sort of aggressive treatment for his own cancer that the federal government would have to ration, if not outright block, access to in order bring health care costs down.
If every American with a brain tumor, or some other sort of cancer, were given the same level of access to aggressive (and marginally successful) treatments that Ted Kennedy got our health care costs would spiral out of control. We’d never, ever be able to afford it as a nation. As a nation, we’d have to ration access to that sort of care.
But it would still be available to people who could afford to buy themselves care above and beyond the government system. People like, say, Ted Kennedy.
The proponents of government health care can get as outrageously outraged as they want when people bring up the grim specter of limiting access to care and essentially putting sick seniors out to pasture, but there is no way for government to run health care without doing that.

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  • http://Array sayanything-4625

    We pay almost $8,000 per person per year for health care. That is almost 3 times what the UK pays, yet they live longer. You are getting screwed with your pants on and don’t know it.

    This one of those nicely manipulated stats that gets thrown around without any meaning. The US has lots of factors that thrown that out of wack. Take for instance the income of Doctors. Plastic surgeons make large salaries. Their procedures are very expensive and voluntary. Those costs are still added to “total healthcare costs” and then used against us. Same for cosmetic dental procedures like dental bonding. Also, if you factor in private offices that have MRI machines, CAT Scanners, X-ray’s ect that raises cost. The up side is that you don’t have to wait for months to get your results. My small Alabama town has 4 MRI machines and 5 or 6 Cat Scan machines. By the way, some large British cities don’t have that many. Then we get the cost of all of those MRI machines used against our healthcare system. Guess what, you or the government didn’t have to buy those machines, the private sector did! Do you think small towns in Alabama will have those machines if we go to “government health care”? No, we’ll all be traveling to large cities to have an MRI. So our cost will go down, quality of care will go down but we will have lower costs! What a bargain! Where do I sign up?

    As to life expectancy, that little stat is mostly due to our higher murder rate and fatalities due to car accidents. Those factors are not going to be improved by government health care.

    http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2007/09/natural-life-expectancy-in-united.html

    http://www.reason.com/news/show/127038.html

    http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/us-vs-europe-life-expectancy-and-cancer.html

    The homicide rate in the U.S. was 5.9 per 100,000 people in 2004, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. In contrast, it was 1.99 per 100,000 in Canada, 1.66 in France, .98 in Germany, and 1.63 in England and Wales (approximately 1.71 including Scotland.) 1

    In the U.S., in 2006 there were 14.24 fatalities per 100,000 people from auto accidents.2 Canada had 9.25 fatalities2, France 7.43, Germany 6.194, and 5.39 in Great Britain (U.K. excluding North Ireland)5. In general, injuries of all kinds accounted for 47 deaths per 100,000 in the U.S. in 2002 but 26 in the U.K., 29 in Germany and 34 in Canada. Only France, at 48 per 100,000 was equivalent.6

  • ollie-B

    If every American with a brain tumor, or some other sort of cancer, were given the same level of access to aggressive (and marginally successful) treatments that Ted Kennedy got our health care costs would spiral out of control. We’d never, ever be able to afford it as a nation. As a nation, we’d have to ration access to that sort of care.
    But it would still be available to people who could afford to buy themselves care above and beyond the government system. People like, say, Ted Kennedy.

    This is the stupidest, most assinine post you have done yet, Rob.
    Our health care is already rationed because the majority of the population cannot afford the care the rich can. So what’s the difference? What you are really saying is this: If you can’t afford it, too bad. Take a pill and die.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    This is how conservatives “debate.”

    Mr. Off: Must we remind you that your own preferred from of “debate” is to simply proclaim some utterly mindless generalization about conservatives as if there were some factual basis? One example is the one you just offered, or:

    Tell me—why are conservatives so goddamn gullible?

    Perhaps if you were to cease from your mindless, childish prattling, someone would engage you in a debate?

    Mr Off: You should aspire to more than one note before you criticize those who write symphonies!

  • Ozcar

    Ollie,

    The difference is that: At the end of the day, it’s none of the government’s goddamn business. See Section 1, Article 2 of the US Constitution (you do know what that is, right?); making decisions regarding my (or your, for that matter) medical care is not one of the enumerated duties/powers.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Since you cannot debate rationally I’ll stop trying.

    I’m game! When did you ever start? The comment you give after you say you’ll stop trying to debate rationally :

    Tell me…why are conservatives so goddamn cliche?

    Is the same caliber of remark you bring on nearly every comment, so once again: When did you start?

    You come here and vent your spleen against conservatives. Period.
    Please don’t pretend you participate in rational debate.

  • Jack

    Rob:

    So you’re a deather now?

    Well, that’s what happens when your friends and allies are all birthers and white nationalists.

    The line between you and mudcat gets thinner by the day.

  • Buzz

    Mike who?

  • robert108

    Take a pill and die.

    That’s what Obama said, moron.

  • Buzz

    Well, that’s what happens when your friends and allies are all birthers and white nationalists.

    He is a big shot now Jack, he is hanging with the big boys. He will fallow the party line or not be able to play in their reindeer games. rob is a follower, not a leader, he will toe the line, and he will do it with a big grin on his chubby face.

  • Lioncourt

    Wow, Mike Huckabee lies and tells the Republican Party line. I am shocked.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    This is the stupidest, most assinine post you have done yet, Rob.
    Our health care is already rationed because the majority of the population cannot afford the care the rich can. So what’s the difference? What you are really saying is this: If you can’t afford it, too bad. Take a pill and die.

    This is not “rationing”. Anymore than it’s rationing that not everyone can afford a porsche. Fool.

    The line between you and mudcat gets thinner by the day.

    See jack jump. Jump to conclusions. Jump jack jump. See jack fall flat on his face.

  • Lioncourt

    This is not “rationing”. Anymore than it’s rationing that not everyone can afford a porsche.

    Basic medical care is not a luxury like a porsche. That is why your side will eventually lose. Most people don’t believe that.

  • Hannitized

    This is not “rationing”. Anymore than it’s rationing that not everyone can afford a porsche. Fool.

    Except you don’t DIE if you don’t get a Porsche.

    what a friggin douche!!

  • groetzinger

    When you have terminal cancer they give you pain killers to make as comfortable as possible til you die.
    That is how they treat it now.
    Another crazy statement from the RIGHT.

  • 2Hotel9

    groet? Teddi was receiving all the state of the art cancer treatments, for years, that would be denied common citizens of the same age group under ALL of the healthcare “reforms” put forward by anyone in this pile of shit. But hey! Keep screeching that lie, you may even convince you.

  • Mickey

    Our health care is already rationed because the majority of the population cannot afford the care the rich can.

    If you think Health Care is expensive now just wait until it is free.

    First off, the issue is “Health Insurance”, not “Health Care.”
    We Americans already have the best “Health Care” in the world. And, to your dismay no doubt, “Health Insurance” does not guarantee that you will stay healthy. It is meant to secure you from catastrophic expense of a major life threatening health issue. Absolutely nothing in Obama’s phony health bill is going to improve the “Health Care” that we Americans already have. It will most likely reduce the quality of “Health Care” nationwide simply because it cannot be funded to the extent that these phony bastards are promising you.

    Secondly, you are dead wrong about the majority of Americans not being able to afford quality “Heath Care”. The fact is that the majority of Americans have Health Insurance that they DO NOT want the government to mess with. In reality only about 10% of the population is going without “Health Insurance” for their “Health Care”.
    It makes no sense to trash a system that is working for the NMAJORITY of Americans to satisfy the demands of the MINORITY. There is no need to rush this bill through. We can wait until after the midterm elections and attack the SPECIFIC areas that need to be resolved. Then we can draft a bill that doesn’t bankrupt the entire nation for the benefit of the least productive members of our society, i.e.: “DEMOCRATS”.

  • Mickey

    Ironic, that those who adamantly oppose the government interfering with the reproductive rights of a female are so willing to turn over the rights to all their other organs to the government.

    Idiots.

  • Jack

    Rob:

    I realize that you enjoy living inside a right-wing bubble, but there are a couple of real-world facts you need to learn:

    Better a system of health care where I can always buy all the health care I want, knowing I may not be able to afford all I need…

    Under the Obama insurance reform plan you will be able to keep your private insurance if you want it. No one will interfere with you if you choose private insurance.

    …then a system where the government decides how much I need.

    Again, if you do not want the public option you do not have to take it. Hence the word OPTION.

    Right now private insurance rations your care. Insurance companies know that their profits will go UP if they deny you care. Therefore the free market DEMANDS that care be rationed.

    A public option wouldn’t have a monetary stake in denying your coverage the way Blue Cross does.

  • Jack

    Mickey:

    We Americans already have the best “Health Care” in the world.

    This is simply untrue. We’re ranked 37th in the world.

    Anyone who has gotten seriously ill and depended upon private insurance will tell you that we have a completely fucked up system.

    We Americans already have the best “Health Care” in the world.

    Pure jingoistic bunkum—and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

    Tell me—why are conservatives so goddamn gullible?

  • Jack

    Mickey:

    We Americans already have the best “Health Care” in the world.

    Glen Beck of January 2008 tells you how wrong you are in 3 and a half minutes.

  • Jack

    Rob:

    But by the private sector, not the government…

    I’m sure that when your wife gets colon cancer, you’ll be proud that her care was denied by the public sector not the government.

  • 2Hotel9

    Keep spewing those lies, jackoff, its all you have.

  • Jack

    Keep spewing those lies, jackoff, its all you have.

    This is how conservatives “debate.”

  • jimmypop

    why isnt mike steele saying this? where is this tool? he should be barking this every day.

  • 2Hotel9

    Just keep spewing those lies, whiny lying cunt, it is all you have.

  • 2Hotel9

    “I’m sure that when your wife gets colon cancer, you’ll be proud that her care was denied by the public sector not the government.
    Jack on August 29, 2009 at 09:43 am”

    So, what you are telling us is, you let your wife die a slow agonizing death simply because healthcare is not free. You are a fucking asshole.

  • Jack

    2h9:

    …you let your wife die a slow agonizing death simply because healthcare is not free.

    That doesn’t even make sense. Wipe the foam from your lips and try again.

  • 2Hotel9

    “”I’m sure that when your wife gets colon cancer, you’ll be proud that her care was denied by the public sector not the government.
    Jack on August 29, 2009 at 09:43 am”"

    Thats you. Either you are bragging about killing your wife through denial of medical care, because it is not free, or you are wishing slow agonizing death on other people. Pick one, you whiny lying cunt.

  • Jack

    2h9:

    Pick one, you whiny lying cunt.

    Number two.

    Actually, my comment wasn’t so much about wishing “a slow agonizing death on other people.”

    It was about the fact that private insurance makes a substantial profit by causing the slow agonizing death of other people.

    I’m not surprised you misunderstood.

  • 2Hotel9

    We understand pefectly. Insurance in America provides the #1 top of the pyramid in healthcare, worldwide. And that pisses you off. So you let your wife die an agonizing death out of spite. You are a fucking asshole.

  • Jack

    2h9:

    Insurance in America provides the #1 top of the pyramid in healthcare, worldwide.

    Actually, we’re 37th worldwide.

  • Jack

    2h9:

    So you let your wife die an agonizing death out of spite.

    Seriously, dude, you are making no sense at all.

    While you’re at Whole Foods, pick up some decaf. I think you’re a bit too wired to think straight.

  • 2Hotel9

    You are the one bragging about it.

    And America is the #1 healthcare system in the world. Period. Full stop. Otherwise your boy Teddi would have went to Canada or Cuba to get his cancer cure. Wouldn’t he?

  • jack1

    2h9:

    And America is the #1 healthcare system in the world. Period. Full stop.

    Actually, we’re ranked 37th worldwide.

    Don’t take my word for it, dude. Google “american healthcare 37″ and you’ll see for yourself.

    Hell, not even Glen Beck [circa 2008] thinks that “America is the #1 healthcare system in the world.”

  • 2Hotel9

    Changing your usename will not change the fact you have bragged about killing your wife through a slow agonizing death, jackoff.

  • jack1

    2h9:

    So I take it you haven’t Googled “american healthcare 37″ yet? Or watch the Glen Beck video? You really should.

  • ellinas

    Changing your usename will not change the fact you have bragged about killing your wife through a slow agonizing death, jackoff.
    2Hotel9 on August 29, 2009 at 09:30 am

    Hotel. Are you drunk again?

  • jack1

    ellinas:

    Hotel. Are you drunk again?

    Probably. I just hope he isn’t planning on driving to Whole Foods.

  • 2Hotel9

    Por little jackoff, spewing its lies, and changing its usename to try and hide. Now e toddles in and show why she has no husband.

    America has the #1 healthcare system in the world, and it pisses you whiny lying cunts off. Now tell us again, jackoff, how much you enjoyed watching your wife die from colon cancer, and how you want other people to die that way, too. Show us again what fucking asshole you are.

  • TheTodd

    America has the #1 healthcare system in the world, and it pisses you whiny lying cunts off.

    If you repeat something often enough, does it magically come true?

    It’s 2009. There’s no excuse for remaining this ignorant about very basic facts on American public policy.

    Just read the opening of the article here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Healthcare). It’s 3 paragraphs. You can do it!!!

  • jack1

    2h9:

    America has the #1 healthcare system in the world…

    Even Glen Beck [circa 2008] disagrees with you!

    You see, in the real world, America is ranked 37th.

    Did you Google “american healthcare 37″ yet? I think you’ll be surprised.

  • Mickey

    This is simply untrue. We’re ranked 37th in the world.

    BS.

    Your confusing health care with life expectancy stats. These are two entirely different items. We have a higher level of poor health statistics BECAUSE we have a large population of dumb shits who don’t take care of themselves. That is hardly the fault of the health care system. Too much booze, drugs, cigarettes and big Macs will kill you eventually but that doesn’t mean that the health care system has failed.

    The Health Care industry is under no obligation to serve you or run your life. Your argument against private insurers is completely false. Who decides what insurance to buy? I do. And in doing so I decide what is covered and what is not, and what limits if any are on the care provided. So the level, scope, and cost of my plan are completely at my disposal. Should I decide the cost is worth it and my assets sufficient; I can personally fund the care. Or I can make the decision to stop.

    Michael Keehn made this point recently:
    “The one size fits all egalitarian approach to medicine is itself a poison to this uniqueness, pretending that every life can have the question of physical care answered with one set of rules. It places within the providence of government the care of the individual’s body, giving the former complete jurisdiction over the latter. If you accept the government has such juris dicta to speak what parts of your body might receive replacement or healing care, you must accept that your body is no longer your belonging, and also be ready to accept your caretakers instructions on how you might use the vessel they maintain. What foods you are allowed to eat, what activities you may participate, and for the utterly unscrupulous government what you may say and think.”

    Governments are inherently good at worrying about populations, they are very inefficient at taking care of individuals.

    Do not be fooled by liberal lies that so many people are now uninsured. Ask an illegal alien, they abuse the system regularly. No one is ever now refused healthcare. There are only an estimated 7 million people (not 47 million as Obama lies about) who truly can’t get health care. Everyone in America already has access to medical care. All of this hoopla about the so called 47 million without healthcare is a big pile of liberal BS.

    Vote Obama and all of his cronies out in 2010 and 2012.

  • Mickey

  • jack1

    Mickey:

    Wow.

    Six paragraphs of lies. Impressive.

    I have neither the desire nor the time to refute every lie you made here, mikey, because—unlike some I could mention—I have a life outside this blog. So I’ll just pick a couple at random:

    Your confusing health care with life expectancy stats.

    No I’m not. Read this:

    The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study)…A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.

    The U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than all other developed countries.

    I certainly haven’t confused population with infant mortality, mickey. I think you’ve mixed up your Glen beck talking points. Check with your Masters and get back to me.

    No one is ever now refused healthcare.

    Completely untrue. I don’t know what kind of a fantasy world you live in, but here in the real world Americans are denied health care and coverage EVERY DAY.

    Jesus—are you really that blind?

  • Really?

    Mickey,

    If you live in North Dakota, please tell me how you narrow down your options from Blue Cross Blue Shield and Blue Cross Blue Shield. Freedom of choice? Give me a break!

  • jack1

    Mikey:

    No one is ever now refused healthcare.

    Nurses disagree with you.

    No one is ever now refused healthcare.

    Health care professionals disagree with you.

    No one is ever now refused healthcare.

    Veterans disagree with you

    Your reply? A picture.

    You are a perfect example of the modern conservative movement, mickey.

  • jack1

    A:

    Ask an illegal if they’re ever refused health care.

    Yes, find one and ask him or her. You’ll find that it happens every day.

  • jack1

    A:

    “Under federal law, anyone who shows up at an emergency room requesting an examination or treatment for a medical condition must be given an appropriate medical screening to determine whether there is an emergency. IF there is, treatment must be provided regardless of a patient’s ability to pay or their citizenship.”

    Big IF there, A.

    And if not…what? What if a person shows up at the ER with cancer and no insurance? They could get a broken leg set, but they would be DENIED the health care they need.

    Tell me—why are conservatives so goddamn delusional?

  • robert108

    Little jackie: In CA, emergency medical personnel are not permitted to ask for ID; it’s considered “profiling” or “discrimination” or some hogwash like that.
    Educate yourself, fool!

  • jack1

    A:

    I swear, you simply have no idea how health care works in the real world.

    Have you ever been in an ER?

    Do you really think they make a good primary care option for an American with cancer?

    And BTW, stop bringing illegal aliens into this discussion. It’s not relevant. All you do is reveal your own jingoism.

  • Really?

    A:

    Yes, a hospital cannot just let a person walk in the ER and die. And all hospitals engage in what they call “charity care.” Despite this, we still have a terrible health care system.

    Case in point: I am insured. The last time I went to a doctor, I waited over an hour to see him for 5 minutes. I explained that I was having problems with a skin rash and he simply referred me to a specialist. He said he didn’t know what I was talking about.

    I didn’t go to see the specialist and looked on WebMD instead. In less than 10 minutes, I discovered I was having an allergic reaction to the soap I was using. Problem solved. Nonetheless, the doctor was able to collect over $100 from me and my insurance company for not doing shit.

    Our system is broken and only government intervention can fix it.

  • Really?

    A:

    First, this isn’t Jack.

    You’re missing the point. The doctor referred me to a specialist so he could get a kickback for the referral without doing any work. I was suffering from a problem a primary care physician should have been able to diagnose.

    I figured it out on my own through a simple internet search, but I shouldn’t have had to do that. I pay monthly insurance premiums specifically so I don’t have to do that.

    Health care reform is designed, in part, to stop shady practices in medicine. We need a public option and we need to pay doctors based on their performance, not their ability to refer people to a specialist.

    Hell, if you can make a living as a primary care physician and refer people to specialists all day, sign me up. You don’t even need to have a high school diploma to be able to do that.

  • FlyOnTheWall

    Our system is broken and only government intervention can fix it.

    You had a problem with an incompetent or lazy doctor, I agree. I don’t see how making that doctor a bureaucrat is going to improve his competence or work ethic. You would still be referred to a specialist, it would just take longer and require more time waiting to fill out paperwork.

  • tothestars2

    first, health care is not a right. being armed is. where is my damn free gun mr pres?

  • Mickey

    I swear, you simply have no idea how health care works in the real world.

    Jack

    You must live in a shithole because I can get into any one of four local hospitals in less than fifteen minutes and get any emergency care I could need. Your life in a shithole it isn’t going to improve under Obama care.

    My insurance is damn good. I’ve had the same family physician for 20 plus years. If I needed special health care I would get it ASAP. I’m not rich but I do pay for my health care and it hasn’t sent me to the poor house. But then again, I’m a Republican; I work so people like you don’t have to.

    You are the one out of touch with reality. I suspect your situation sucks because you are a pathetic loser, unable to support yourself so you suck on the teat of social care. Get your F’ing hands out of my pocket you leach.

  • 2Hotel9

    Again, for the mental retards, America has the #1 healthcare system on the planet. Now, cry and whine because it is not free, you whiny lying cunts.

  • jack1

    2h9:

    Again, for the mental retards, America has the #1 healthcare system on the planet.

    Again, for you, we’re ranked 37th.

    Of course, you’re a conservative so facts don’t matter.

    For conservatives, belief trumps reality every time.

  • Buzz

    You must live in a shithole because I can get into any one of four local hospitals in less than fifteen minutes and get any emergency care I could need.

    Ad where abouts is this white utopia?

  • jack1

    mickey:

    …I can get into any one of four local hospitals in less than fifteen minutes and get any emergency care I could need.

    And if y show up at the ER with lupus but without insurance you would be denied care. That’s how the system works here in the real world.

    Your “let them eat cake” approach to health care reveals how morally bankrupt the modern conservative movement really is.

  • Hannitized

    Mickey must be doped up on Robitussen again. He does that every now and again.

  • 2Hotel9

    “And if y show up at the ER with lupus but without insurance you would be denied care. That’s how the system works here in the real world.”

    And more lies from the jackoff. And why would you go to an ER for Lupus? Don’t know how to go to a doctors office, you whiny lying cunt?

  • Mickey

    Jack

    Get a f’ing job. Wait, first get a secondary education, then get a f’ing job. Even in this crap Obama economy there is no excuse for any person who has either a two year of four year degree for not getting a good enough job that they can not afford health insurance. Stop blaming society because you are either lazy or stupid. If a nitwit like Buzz can get employment twisting wires together then there is no excuse for the rest of you slackers. If the prospects are poor where you live, then move. If you have any marketable skill what so ever, and if you have the will to make something of yourself, you can. The rest of us do not owe you shit.

    Sorry, but that is the real reality here.

  • jack1

    2h9:

    …you whiny lying cunt?

    Since you cannot debate rationally I’ll stop trying.

    But if you have to fling insults try to come up with another one. You use this one way too much.

    Tell me…why are conservatives so goddamn cliche?

  • 2Hotel9

    This is not a debate, this is you spewing lies. Period. So fuck off, jackoff. America has the #1 healthcare system on the planet, and you can lie all you want, it changes nothing.

    Mickey, notice how jackoff tried to change its usename, trying to hide from what it said yesterday about killing its wife by refusing her medical care. Sick assed fuck.

  • 2Hotel9

    Again, this is not a debate. The people have repeatedly spoken, and we do not want jackoff’s shit. Period. No matter what name is on it.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    Basic medical care is not a luxury like a porsche. That is why your side will eventually lose. Most people don’t believe that.

    There is simply no one in the country who cannot afford basic medical care. And there is no one who will be denied even advanced medical care because they cannot pay for it.

    This has so many built in misconceptions and distortions that it isn’t funny.

    1. Access to health care and access to health INSURANCE are not interchangable. If you want something, you have to pay for it, or get charity. That a bill is tendered after the fact doesn’t mean you don’t get care.
    2. Getting the brand new name brand drug vs getting the generic or the older drug is the difference between the “Porsche” and taking the bus. I have yet to go to a doctor that doesn’t give me a choice in what version of the drug I want. Do I want the newest drug? Do I want the cheapest? Do I want this generic or that generic? Or do I want the name brand? This is “rationing” like the porsche is rationing. I may not be able to afford the newest new car, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have wheels.
    3. There are so many assistance programs available that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA has access to health care. If you really can’t afford medical insurance, then you ALREADY qualify for one of the myriad of gov’t assistance programs available. If you don’t apply and you get sick…you can sign up for gov’t assistance THEN. This idea that we need more gov’t insurance is a blatant lie.

    This is why your side is LOSING the debate, because even the dullest tool in the shed sees there’s no “there” there in your debate. It’s just emotional howling.

  • robert108

    The Obama scheme isn’t about “basic” healthcare, in any way at all. It’s about enforcing equal misery on the entire population of the US, fulfilling the dreams of Karl Marx, who thought such “equality” would lead to the end of “class struggle” and the creation of utopia.
    He was wrong, but they keep trying, since it gives the ruling elite totalitarian power.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    This is simply untrue. We’re ranked 37th in the world.
    Anyone who has gotten seriously ill and depended upon private insurance will tell you that we have a completely fucked up system.

    This is based on the WHO’s study. They ranked nations not on quality of care, or on customer satisfaction, but based on how “fair” the system was. Guess what, it ranked all the socialist systems first. Certainly it’s not because they have better care, but there’s “access for everyone”!

    Since we wish to use wikipedia though:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

    This study rated the US “responsiveness”, or quality of service for individuals receiving treatment, as 1st, compared with 7th for Canada.

    So we have the best quality service. We also have the highest survival rates in the world for every known cancer, and heart disease, and even stroke.

    The only way our system can be criticized with numbers is to mistakingly associate life expectancy with health care, and to hype up the number of the uninsured.

    That’s why we win everytime the debate is had. The facts simple ain’t on your side.

  • robert108

    Cost is only a meaningful metric when you aren’t getting what you pay for. Our system gives good value for the money, despite the present level of govt meddling.

  • docdave

    Since you cannot debate rationally I’ll stop trying.

    You need to try harder since you haven’t posted anything rational yet.

  • Lioncourt

    Cost is only a meaningful metric when you aren’t getting what you pay for. Our system gives good value for the money, despite the present level of govt meddling.

    We pay almost $8,000 per person per year for health care. That is almost 3 times what the UK pays, yet they live longer. You are getting screwed with your pants on and don’t know it.

  • robert108

    We pay almost $8,000 per person per year for health care.

    The real problem here, LC, as you have been told repeatedly, is that the govt is responsible for about half of that cost.

    Life expectancy, for those ignorant of how statistics work, is dependent upon infant mortality, not healthcare. In the US, we are able to save the lives of many premies, but they still have a relatively high death rate. In other countries, they don’t save the premies, and don’t count them as being born, so they don’t count as “infant mortality”.
    Nice try, though.

    If you don’t understand the statistics reference, putting zeros in any bunch of statistics lowers the average.
    The real metric of a healthcare system’s performance is how well the older folks do, and we are the best in that department. Of course, those are the people Obama want to die, to “cut costs”, rather than removing the cost of govt meddling in the market. Go figure.

  • jimmypop

    We pay almost $8,000 per person per year for health care. That is almost 3 times what the UK pays, yet they live longer. You are getting screwed with your pants on and don’t know it.

    yes, but my ambulance actually gets me there and in right away. in london, not so much.

    fyi; when their elites get sick, they come here.

  • Mickey

    We pay almost $8,000 per person per year for health care. That is almost 3 times what the UK pays, yet they live longer. You are getting screwed with your pants on and don’t know it.

    Free health care won’t extend anyone’s life. Your lifestyle plays the most important role in your longevity. I expect to live far longer than the average Brit. There are urban sections on England where the life expectancy is under 50 years. Our stats are slanted because of all the drug addicts in our cities. These are the pukes who want Obama’s free entitlement healthcare.

  • Mickey

    This is everything that need be said about Ted Kennedy:

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/ted_kennedy_a_life_of_debauche.html

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    We pay almost $8,000 per person per year for health care. That is almost 3 times what the UK pays, yet they live longer. You are getting screwed with your pants on and don’t know it.

    We also have extremely high rates of crime and high accident death rates. Unless the UK and Canada have discovered a cure for bullet wound to the head, this stat is meaningless.

    We also have a heavier, more seditary population.

    Let’s put this in perspective though: the difference between the US and the “top of the chain” is two years. Even without adjusting for our high homicide and accident rate, this is a near identical result for a supposedly “superior” system. Once you adjust for crime and accident, we have a higher life expectancy than any other nation. Bar none.

  • Bat One

    We pay almost $8,000 per person per year for health care. That is almost 3 times what the UK pays, yet they live longer.

    Lioncourt,

    Your argument, such as it is, might be relevant if you could establish that ObamaCare will be either less expensive or will lead to a longer, healthier life for all Americans. You have done neither, and I’ll be very surprised if you can.

  • Mickey

    What we have is an epidemic, an epidemic of entitlement mentality. Granted, there is a recession going on and it’s a bad one, but it didn’t create this problem. This epidemic has been growing in the ranks of the Democrat societal victims for a couple decades. We have offered training and job counseling to all those who have lost jobs or simply can’t keep jobs but only a small percentage ever take advantage and even fewer have the personal tenacity to follow through. Our liberal controlled education system has done nothing to prepare the less motivated to improve themselves. We tried “no child left behind” and the Democrat teacher unions played games and did all they could to make it fail. They only succeeded in encouraging dependency on the government and more entitlement. Today’s slacker prefers the choice of living on benefits in preference to working. Further government programs aimed at entitlement from the state will only stifle incentive or responsibility. Living on benefits has become a lifestyle choice for too many Americans. Considering the blind support for Obama and his unethical stimulus and health care reform, I’m not surprised to see so many entitlement dependent Democrats happy to live off the efforts of others. This growing underclass of underachievers poses more of a threat to society than just their federal dependence. The corruption of Democrat funded agencies like ACORN is becoming accepted practice. Address the problem and you are labeled a racist from the entitlement class themselves. Worst of all, we have an administration that has done nothing to stimulate the economy. Our clueless leader is too busy shoving unwanted, hard core liberal mandates down everyone’s throat, fiddling around while Rome burns.

    We can repair the Health Insurance situation by addressing the specific problems and working with the health care industry as well as the insurance industry. Obama’s totalitarian approach will do nothing positive and only set our standards lower and raise our costs higher.

    Vote these Democrat clowns out in 2010 and 2012. Do it for America.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    Or, for new readers, the conservatives/libertarians are offering facts, and the liberals tell us how much we all suck.

    That’s the argument in a nutshell.

  • 2Hotel9

    So, lyingcourt, lets us get this straight. Your life is not worth $8000 per year? OK, I agree, totally. Your life is worth substantially less than that, less than my son’s life, less then my wife’s life, and damned sure less than mine. So go polish your pennies, asshole, we will continue to pay for our healthcare ourselves and you can go fuck yourself.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Better a system of health care where I can always buy all the health care I want, knowing I may not be able to afford all I need, then a system where the government decides how much I need.

    Of course health care is already rationed. But by the private sector, not the government, which leaves us a choice.

    Honestly, you screeching ninnies are so afraid of taking care of yourselves its pathetic.

  • sayanything-2483

    Ask an illegal if they’re ever refused health care.

  • sayanything-2483

    Not likely. NO ONE is refused medical care. That’s why the illegals use the hospitals as their primary care.

  • sayanything-2483

    Inte4resting article.

    “Under federal law, anyone who shows up at an emergency room requesting an examination or treatment for a medical condition must be given an appropriate medical screening to determine whether there is an emergency. If there is, treatment must be provided regardless of a patient’s ability to pay or their citizenship.”
    http://www.lvrj.com/news/53787252.html

  • sayanything-2483

    If someone showed up at the ER sick with symptoms from cancer, I would think that would be an emergency.
    Maybe we should ask an ER doctor.

  • sayanything-2483

    However, based on the article, the uninsured are getting dialysis.

  • sayanything-2483

    Jack: I have been in an ER, behind many illegals waiting my turn. And, two of my kids are in the medical field so yes, I have a pretty good idea how things work.
    Not only did I bring the illegals into this, but also ALL of the uninsured.

  • sayanything-2483

    Jack: “waiting” to see the doctor is not unusual. It’s also not unusual for a GP to refer you to a “specialist” to deal with a specific problem. You probably would have ended up at a dermatologist who had the specific training to deal with your specific problem. You knew that if you went to the doctor, some body was going to get charged and some body was going to have to pay. I understand the frustration of waiting and getting nothing but a referral to another doctor.
    I agree the system needs some work, but I don’t feel it’s broken.

  • sayanything-2483

    Sorry about the mix up. I think your GP referred you to another doctor because he didn’t know what the rash was or how to treat it.

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