Home ND News Mobile Forum Contact Reader Blogs Register Login

Wednesday, May 16, 2007


My Banishment From The Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation Makes The Grand Forks Herald

Yesterday I gave an interview to Susanne Nadeau of the Grand Forks Herald about my apparent banishment from the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation, and today she’s got an article out about it (it should be noted that Susanne herself is a member of the Turtle Mountain tribe).  You can read it here.  She’s also included a copy of the tribal code used by the tribe to banish me (click here) and a copy of the actual order issued by the council banning me (click here).

I’d note that yesterday, when Susanne emailed it to me, is the first time I’ve gotten an opportunity to read the actual banishment order.

I’ve got several reactions to this.

First, and foremost, I’d point out that this banishment doesn’t appear to be legal under the tribe’s own code.  According to the tribes Exclusion and Removal code (linked above) people facing banishment are to be afforded some level of due process before that banishment happens.  From the link:

39.0110 Administrative Hearing on Exclusion and Removal in Non-Emergency Situations.

(1) In non-emergency cases of exclusion and/or removal, the Exclusion Ordinance Board shall cause to be served upon the offending person a copy of the Petition and Notice of Hearing by personal service, or if such service is not reasonably possible, by registered mail, return receipt requested, to the last known address of such person. Such Notice shall contain the date and time of the administrative pre-exclusion hearing, which hearing shall be not less than three days from the date of service, and shall further inform the person that he or she may appear with counsel at his or her own expense and present evidence in his or her own behalf.

(2) The administrative pre-exclusion hearing on a proposed exclusion and/or removal may be held at a regular session of the Exclusion Ordinance Board.

(3) The Exclusion Ordinance Board shall hear the evidence presented, and if appropriate, recommend the exclusion and/or removal of the person to the Tribal Chairman. If the person is not present at such hearing, or if a decision thereon is not rendered until after the hearing, appropriate notice shall be served on the person in the manner provided above, informing him of the action of the Tribal Chairman. Such notice shall include a copy of any recommendation made by the Exclusion Board to the Tribal Chairman for exclusion and/or removal that affects such person.

I would note that I have never been served notice of a hearing of the Exclusion Board nor was I afforded an opportunity to attend any such hearing.  I’d also note that the resolution supposedly banning me from the reservation was not passed by the Exclusion Board but rather the Tribal Council.  Finally, I’d note that according to the resolution passed by the Tribal Council the Chairman, David Brien, who is supposed to have final say on banishments did not vote on the resolution.

I, personally, don’t think these banishments are Constitutional, but this one doesn’t even appear to be legal under the tribe’s own laws.  I wasn’t afforded due process.  I wasn’t notified about the banishment (were it not for my blog readers and/or Susanne Nadeau I still wouldn’t even know about it) and I wasn’t given an opportunity to speak on my own behalf.  That’s not right.

Second, I’d like to address this from the article:

Last year, the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa adopted its exclusion code, a tribal ordinance that creates a process to permanently banish or withhold services from tribal members and nonmembers who are involved in serious crimes.

It was put into place because of growing concerns about illicit drugs on reservations and the lack of jurisdiction tribes have over nonmembers who deal with, possess, or use drugs. Only serious felony offenses committed by members or nonmembers of the tribe are federally prosecuted.

The exclusion ordinance has been used once before, when the tribe banned Calvin John Andrist, who is not a member of the tribe but living on the reservation. Andrist was removed after a request to the tribal council from tribal law enforcement officers, who said Andrist was involved in numerous drug-related actions from the summer of 2005 to March 8, 2006.

Tribal members and non-tribal members who are repeat offenders either dealing in drugs or committing sex offenses can be banned from the reservation permanently, according to the ordinance. Tribal members are given warnings before they are banned, according to the ordinance.

Non-tribal members can be banished without warning if the tribe deems immediate removal necessary.

This exclusionary code was developed by the tribe as a way to ban drug dealers, sex offenders and other criminals from the reservation.  But now, the second time they’ve used it since creating it, they’ve banned someone for stating political opinions they find inconvenient.  And this is happening in America and not some eastern-European country that hasn’t entirely forgotten its communist roots, if you can believe that.

I made a point to Susanne during the interview, though I see it didn’t make it into the article, but the status of political dissent on the reservations.  If the tribe is willing and capable of banning me, someone who isn’t even a member of the tribe, from the reservation just imagine the lengths it would go through to make life hell for people who actually speak out while living on the reservation.

Talk about a chilling effect on free speech.

Third, in the resolution banning me it states that there have been comments on this blog about Indian children being “bastards” and Indian women being “welfare queens.”  I’d point out that I never made such comments.  Other commenters did, unfortunately, but that’s how this whole “free speech” thing works.  Sometimes it gets ugly.  I’d point out that several tribal members from Turtle Mountain have made obscene and insulting comments to me in the wake of this controversy, and a few have even posted/emailed threats, yet I’m not holding the entire Turtle Mountain tribe responsible for those comments.  It’s absurd that I should be held responsible for comments my readers make on this blog.

Fourth, I’d note that in the article Tribal Vice Chairman Ted Henry said that part of the banning was, in effect, for my protection.  Doesn’t that speak volumes about the state of affairs on the reservation?  And, frankly, lend support to the thesis of my original column?

Finally, I want to thank Herald city beat reporter Tu-Uyen Tran for standing by me in this controversy.  It means a lot, even if he does it with a “I don’t always agree with Rob” disclaimer.

C’mon Tu.  Embrace your inner conservative.

Update: Chuck Simmins from the North Shore Journal emails along his support, and a link to a post he’s written about the Herald article.

Update: Herald opinion editor (and friend) Tom Dennis responds to the controversy, and while he disagrees with the banishment he does criticize me for being “intemperate” in my column.  I’d like to respond to that.

Intemperate is the wrong word, I think.  That makes me sound angry, and I didn’t write the column in anger.

I think Tom’s real complaint is that perhaps the column wasn’t as balanced as it should be (i.e. pointing out that not all Indians live the way I observed).  I’ll accept that criticism, but would point out that I took for granted that people would know that not all Indians live that way.

My mistake, perhaps.  I may have been a bit naive on that point.

Tom’s metaphor about the media coverage of the Iraq war isn’t apt though, I don’t think.  I wrote one column.  The media’s bias in covering the war in Iraq encompasses hundreds of stories filed daily.  One story can be about something negative without needing to mention the positive aspects of the war, but those stories should be leveled out with other stories about positive things.

In my column I chose to cover one single negative issue about the reservations, and I covered it in-depth.  I didn’t mention other positive aspects of the reservation as they weren’t really germane to the point I was making.

Finally, comparing our entire American economy to that of Mexico’s isn’t all that apt either.  Mexico doesn’t have a free economy like ours.  They suffer from rampant burdensome government and corruption.

If Tom wanted to compare Mexico’s economy to something he really should have compared it to the reservation’s economy, where the tribe’s vice-like control (coupled with our government’s unfortunate past decisions to segregate the Indians onto these remote parcels of land) is ruining their economy.

Does this tick you off? Click here to email your elected representatives right here on Say Anything, or comment below.

Comments

Avatar for Anh

So. Congraduation is in order.

Congraduation.

Anh on May 16, 2007 at 08:12 am

Third, in the resolution banning me it states that there have been comments on this blog about Indian children being “bastards” and Indian women being “welfare queens.” I’d point out that I never made such comments.

I made those comments! Well,..I never said that all of the women are welfare whores with bastard children. THEY said that. They’re not too hip on reading comprehension I guess. (You reading this now guys? Get it now? Good.)

I’m wondering just how in the hell have they confused the name “likwidshoe” with the name “Rob”. The names aren’t even close!

Where are these “anti-Indian” comments at anyway? I’d like to see what they’re talking about. I’d also like to point out that back in the day, it was the Indians themselves who made “anti-reservation comments”.

I don’t expect that they’ll apologize and retract their statements that took my words out of context. That would require honesty.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 08:29 am

What a coincidence,

I held a meeting with my “Tribal Council” last night and we have decided to ban anyone from the Turtle Mountain Reservation from setting foot on my land. 

Take that Andy and Co.  You’re banned!!!  NEENER NEENER!! 

Oh, and it’s LEGAL too!!!

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 08:57 am

Did you say Tribal Counsel?

Dude, this is Survivor.  Rob is just the first to get banned.  Let the counsel vote members off the reservation.  Rob is out of the running for the $1M.

I am not a fan of freedom of speech because it provides people like us the opportunity to express our opinions that might be hurtful or mean.  They really should have included a clause clarifying that whole freedom of speech thing in the Bill of Rights.

It is precisely these sort of decisions by the Tribes that represent their backwards thinking.  And the leadership of the Tribes that spend their time worrying about Rob Port instead of the drugs, alcohol, unemployment, and education of their Tribe members.  The leadership of these tribes are so incompetent that they cannot even follow their own laws by providing the due process they are obligated to.  Given this level of incompetence by the leadership of the tribes and their desire to ban Rob without any due process simply for having an opinion they do not like, this provides more of a glimpse into the ultimate causes of their problems than any article ever could.

Hence why the tribes continue in the same state as they have for generations and why tribe members continue to be denied the prosperity that the rest of the nation enjoys.  It is not the white man.  It is their own leadership and once again they demonstrate how petty and worthless their leadership really is.

Justin B. on May 16, 2007 at 09:04 am
Avatar for Member of Turtle Mtn. Tribe

Do you see the hate your column has created?  I would hope that you could learn from this and maybe on your quest to be banned from all reservations figure out that the saying, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”, is something you should’ve paid a bit more attention to.  You mentioned you didn’t say some of the more aggressive comments.  Well, people who read your column did.  Those comments maybe wouldn’t have been so widely spread had you not written the things you did.  I do not agree with violence.  I agree with freedom of speech, but when freedom of speech involves violent language, it shouldn’t be free.

Member of Turtle Mtn. Tribe on May 16, 2007 at 10:17 am
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

Member of Turtle Mountain, what “violent” speech did my original column, the one I’ve been “banned” for, contain?

What “violent” speech has any of my comments about the reservation contained?  None.

You claim to support free speech but you don’t because you support a ban for someone simply because you disagree with him/her.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 10:21 am

Wow, Rob…

I hope you intend to frame your copy of the banishment. I would. But then, I’m like that. Four years ago I got a letter of reprimand for calling my Captain a drunk (because he was a drunk but it was still considered insubordination). I have it framed and hung on my I-love-me wall along with commendations and such.

Unless you’ve left something serious there or are seeking the love of an Indian, er, Native American maiden or something equally dramatic I don’t see where you’ve lost anything.

I could be wrong, of course.  Can I be banned, too? Just asking.


The future ain’t what it used to be…..

(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Pilgrim on May 16, 2007 at 10:30 am
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

Do you see the hate your column has created?

I didn’t create any hate.  I expressed a political opinion, and now apparently some people hate me for it.  But I didn’t create that hate, people are choosing to hate me.

I, personally, don’t hate anyone.  Indians, specifically.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 10:30 am
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

Pilgrim, I’ve got no pressing reasons to go on the reservation.  There’s a casino there, I guess, but I’m not much of a gambler.

As for you being banned, just write a column critical of the reservation.  From their actions in this instance, I’m sure they’d be happy to oblige you.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 10:32 am
Avatar for Robert Perry

Actually, “member,” the only hate I’ve seen here is coming from “the reservation,” not directed at it from “outside.”

And if I were living there, I’d be thinking of leaving, and quickly.  If tribal law doesn’t protect our gracious host, neither does it protect those who live there.  Think about it.

Never mind the fact that what Rob is saying is by and large true; that Indians are disproportionately affected by the maladies brought on by the welfare state.  I hate to say this, but as long as Turtle Mountain insists on shooting the messenger instead of heeding the message, they’re going to be a backwater.

Robert Perry on May 16, 2007 at 10:34 am

Turtle Mountain person,

What hate? 

The “rule” about not saying anything if you have nothing nice to say is DUMB!

We SHOULD encourage people to make good choices.  Silence does nothing to reduce poor choices.  People are still free to make poor choices, but others are free to point out your poor choice.  Why is that bad?

If I spend my life savings gambling and end up with no money to eat, wouldn’t it be smart to tell your kids “Look at that guy who made some seriously stupid decisions and now has nothing.  Don’t make those choices.”

Why wouldn’t you do that?  Do you hate your children?

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 10:39 am

I forgot to mention that the only thing I “hate” is the idea that banning Rob could somehow improve the situation for those living on the reservation. 

For the people on the reservation, what bad things could or have happened as a result of Rob’s article, and how would banishment help? 

Since you’re banning Rob because he expressed an opinion, what other opinions or speech would you ban? 

Suppose you disagreed with tribal leaders about something…  Would you leave the reservation freely or just wait to be banished?

I presume that you will be equally harsh to those that supply drugs and alcohol to the reservation?

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 10:46 am

Do you see the hate your column has created?

It’s always someone else’s fault, isn’t it?

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 10:58 am

Do you see the hate your column has created?  I would hope that you could learn from this and maybe on your quest to be banned from all reservations figure out that the saying, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”, is something you should’ve paid a bit more attention to.  You mentioned you didn’t say some of the more aggressive comments.  Well, people who read your column did.  Those comments maybe wouldn’t have been so widely spread had you not written the things you did.  I do not agree with violence.  I agree with freedom of speech, but when freedom of speech involves violent language, it shouldn’t be free.

Rob, you encouraged hate and violent language by writing a column about the sad state of affairs on the reservation.  I assumed that you were trying to bring light on a major problem in this country where some citizens are being left behind to live in poverty and unemployment while the rest of us continue to enjoy more and more opportunities.  But I was wrong.  You sought to slander these poor folks, create more hatred from your bigotted readers, and promote violence.  Ah, the idea of using the Internet to promote discussion.  I don’t believe I understand the term “violent language”.  I imagine that the tribes’ problems would miraculously go away if we all stopped using “violent language”.  Folks would have jobs.  Poverty would be eliminated.  Drug and alcohol abuse would end.

It is the whites that are responsible for the problems on the reservation because banks don’t loan Indians money, whites don’t locate businesses and jobs on the rez, whites don’t take good enough care of the Indians, and white settlers took Indian lands.  I have yet to hear a single Indian from Turtle Mountain take responsibility for their own roles in creating the environment on the Rez.  It is always either “Turtle Mountain is beautiful, offers a great life for us, and the standard of living is great because of the outdoors” or it is “It is all the fault of whitey”.  And they take it one step further now and blame Rob and this site for making things worse.  Well, I guess Rob is white so he deserves it.

Justin B. on May 16, 2007 at 11:05 am
Avatar for hikemp

I say get over it Mr. Port. What the people of the Turtle Mountains is for the safety of everyone. You claimed you only had well intentions but only hurt EVERYONE from that area. It’s not that we are denying the issues on the reservation but you failed to see any good in anyone until others start jumping on you. Even when you attempted to be positive about others it seemed fake. I laughed at the response in the Herald today. Even now you are just as ignorant as when you wrote in the Deacon Beacon. It doesn’t matter who wrote today’s article, there’s been quite the buzz about your article. And many natives and non natives are insulted with what you wrote. Poverty, drugs, poor education, littering, etc happens everywhere, not just on Reservation lands. Go take a look at the mighty Red River, or Turtle Lake… maybe take a stroll through a few neighborhoods in Bismarck, Minot, Grand Forks and Fargo… I assure you will see the same thing there. And it’s not the color of their skin that’s causing this!

So again, get over it. Why do you want to go to the Turtle Mountains if it’s so unpleasant to you anyway? I don’t see you attempting to do anything good for anyone. Just some 15 minutes of fame for being an insensitive jerk.

hikemp on May 16, 2007 at 11:09 am

Watch it Justin B.! Many of these people have shown us that they aren’t intelligent enough to pick out the kind of dripping sarcasm you write in your comments. Even worse, they are prone to attributing what you say to Rob.

You have to be careful around these guys and spell things out for them.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 11:09 am

I say get over it Mr. Port.

But we will take your tax money! But get over it. And don’t speak of the horrendous conditions again. But we will take your take money. But get over it. And blah blah blah…

Go take a look at the mighty Red River, or Turtle Lake… maybe take a stroll through a few neighborhoods in Bismarck, Minot, Grand Forks and Fargo… I assure you will see the same thing there.

63% unemployment? No kidding. In places like Minot and Fargo? Somebody alert the presses! They don’t know about this.

And it’s not the color of their skin that’s causing this!

No! Ya think?

I don’t see you attempting to do anything good for anyone. Just some 15 minutes of fame for being an insensitive jerk.

*sniffle*he told the truth and I don’t like it*sniffle* Now get over it! And give me your tax money! And just get over it already! Oh, you’ve got something to say about this injustice? Well,...we’ll show you! You’re banned!

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 11:15 am

Yesterday: Indians came out against the reservation system because they recognized that it was a system designed to marginalize them.

Today: Indians defend the same systems and ban anyone who points out that reservations marginalize them.

We can’t win, can we? We’re either blamed for the actions of long dead people, or we’re blamed for “not caring”.

Oh, but I guess that people are “mad” and that gives them all the legitimacy they need to throw out logic and reason and to continue on by attacking the messenger. Because people who are mad are justified for everything they feel, even if it makes no logical sense.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 11:19 am

Go take a look at the mighty Red River, or Turtle Lake… maybe take a stroll through a few neighborhoods in Bismarck, Minot, Grand Forks and Fargo… I assure you will see the same thing there.

A salient point that took way too long to be made. I was wondering when someone was going to come up with it.

And it’s not the color of their skin that’s causing this!

Again, where the fuck did that come from?


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 16, 2007 at 11:23 am

I say get over it Mr. Port. What the people of the Turtle Mountains is for the safety of everyone.

Ah, so basically what you believe is that Indians on the Reservation are a bunch of violent fucks and Rob would be in danger if he went there.  And on the flip side, you believe that somehow this is for “everyone’s” safety?  No, if this is for safety it is because the shitbags on the rez that are all pissed off at Rob are too fucking ignorant to seperate political debate from violence.  Keep the violent pieces of shit away from Rob off the Rez too if it is for his safety.  How can he be safe anywhere when your tribal leaders encourage a Fatwa on his ass like Salmon Rushdie?

Or were you implying that Rob needs to be kept away from Indians because he might get violent?  Your words not ours asshole.  You know how the members of the tribe are and I am sure that they would resort to violence because they don’t like what Rob said.  You are probably right.

Justin B. on May 16, 2007 at 11:32 am

Why not give him a hearing on this as your laws require?  Allow Rob to come to the Rez and present evidence at a hearing?

It seems that one resident of the rez said:

I do not agree with violence.  I agree with freedom of speech, but when freedom of speech involves violent language, it shouldn’t be free.

You imply that this is for Rob’s safety that he not be allowed on the Rez.  Seems that the only violence this has incited is by tribal members that want to perpetrate harm on Rob.

Justin B. on May 16, 2007 at 11:36 am

I find it hilarious that none of Rob’s critics have yet to dispute the actual facts that Rob alleged about reservation conditions.

Rob told the truth - and he must be banned for that!

The phoney baloney process used to ban him just goes to prove that reason, the rule of law, free speech and due process mean absolutely nothing on North Dakota reservations.

Ken McCracken on May 16, 2007 at 11:37 am

like Salmon Rushdie

Dude, the Satanic Verses is a fricking awesome read. Damn. Goddamn right people are afraid of that book. Its amazing.


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 16, 2007 at 11:39 am

Ken,

One step further—Rob’s free speech rights and right to enter the Rez has been taken away because the Tribe believes that his safety would be in danger.  Because of their violent tribe members, Rob loses his rights.

And one wonders why these reservations are so ass backwards.  In another thread, a reader commented that the problem with unemployment is that white bankers don’t want to lend money to Indians on the rez.

The rez has no rule of law.  People can be ejected.  Violence or property damage goes unpunished.  Corruption among officials is rampant.  Until the rule of law is imposed justly, the corruption of the tribal leadership is eliminated, and the Indian society takes accountability for their part in the cycle of poverty, drug abuse, and unemployment, there will be no investment and no real changes.  All this ruling did is reinforce that whites should want no part of investing or travelling on the reservations.  If not for casinos, I am pretty sure most whites wouldn’t anyway.

Justin B. on May 16, 2007 at 11:44 am
Avatar for Robert Perry

Just read the article, and it’s worse than I first suspected.  The band has actually passed an ordinance to keep criminals away, and not the ordinance is being applied to those who are emphatically not criminals.  Are we somehow to believe that this makes anyone safer?  Again, the rule of law is being trashed at Turtle Mountain, and residents should take notice and move away.

Never mind the sublime idiocy of thinking that a reservation ban is going to be a better deterrent to crime than putting people in jail for their crimes.

Robert Perry on May 16, 2007 at 11:59 am

I find it hilarious that none of Rob’s critics have yet to dispute the actual facts that Rob alleged about reservation conditions.

Ken,

Hilarious is hardly adequate.  If any one of these self-styled defenders had honestly thought that what Rob had written was not the truth, they could easily have invited him back to re-visit the reservation to show him where and how his observations were mistaken.  They haven’t done so, apparently because they are afraid of the truth.

It’s time to move away from the whole idea of reservations.  “Separate but equal” clearly doesn’t work any better now than it did 60 years ago.


“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Bat One on May 16, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Avatar for Member of Turtle Mtn.

By the looks of this page, ignorance reigns. I’ve been verbally assaulted for wanting to hear some good from people.  Nice.

Member of Turtle Mtn. on May 16, 2007 at 12:52 pm

By the looks of this page, ignorance reigns.

“Ignorance” doesn’t mean things that you don’t want to hear.

I’ve been verbally assaulted for wanting to hear some good from people.  Nice.

Assaulted? Break out the fainting couch!

How come you didn’t answer Rob’s question asking for an explanation of your “violent language” comment? Are you just incapable of having a normal back and forth conversation?

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

Nobody has assaulted you, “Member.”  A few people here have been rude, but that’s the nature of internet discourse I’m afraid.

There’s not much that can be done about it.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 12:59 pm

By the looks of this page, ignorance reigns.

Can you tell us how?  I, honestly, am interested in knowing how Rob’s article created hatred.  I am interested in knowing what part of any of this is “ignorant”.

I’ve been verbally assaulted for wanting to hear some good from people.  Nice.

Where?

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 01:01 pm
Avatar for Robert Perry

Member, if you want to “hear some good” from people, it helps a little bit to refrain from calling people ignorant and accusing them of inciting hate.  Put differently, if you want to remind others of what your mama told you (and mine did me too), it helps to apply that in your own life.

Robert Perry on May 16, 2007 at 01:04 pm

Interesting. What I’m seeing here and in the reaction to Rob’s column is the absolute amazement on the PC side that anyone would actually write something about our Native American brothers and sisters that’s not, A: Illustrating the victimizing of their people by, well, everyone, or, B: painting them as noble, long suffering people who just can do no wrong.

Someone had the nerve to write something that wasn’t either of the above. Can’t have that now, can we?

Must be a racist. Or a hater. Or a Nazi. Or one of those free speech lunatics who think they can just write anything they want.

Don’t you hate it when that happens. Evidently they do.


The future ain’t what it used to be…..

(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Pilgrim on May 16, 2007 at 01:14 pm
Avatar for hikemp

last I checked, I pay taxes just like everyone else. I don’t know what you’re all talking about when you assume Natives don’t pay taxes. Talk about ignorance. And as for safety, well if you go walk into anyone’s home and insult them, I can imagine some may lose a little self control… and I originally was referring emotionally safety. Until one of you assumed I’m referring to people of the Turtle Mountains as violent people. The people of the Turtle Mountains are wonderful and I would not trade that family for anyone else. I was surprised about the ban myself, I didn’t realize it was a consideration. But again, Mr. Port was challenged in some responses to do something about these poor conditions and spend a little more time getting to know the community before seeing only negative things… and did he do so? No. If he cared so much the article would have had a little more than ranting about negative things he sees. There’s more to the Turtle Mountains than he or many of you care to know about. And trying to use profanity just shows you lost the fight of intelligence.

hikemp on May 16, 2007 at 01:29 pm

I don’t know what you’re all talking about when you assume Natives don’t pay taxes. Talk about ignorance.

Who made that assumption? Can you point it out for us? It’s easy enough to just give us the link.

You’re not going to be able to throw these things out there and not get called on them.

But again, Mr. Port was challenged in some responses to do something about these poor conditions and spend a little more time getting to know the community before seeing only negative things… and did he do so? No.

It’s not his community nor is it his responsibility. Rob doesn’t have to jump through a bunch of hoops to earn free speech.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 01:34 pm
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

last I checked, I pay taxes just like everyone else. I don’t know what you’re all talking about when you assume Natives don’t pay taxes.

I’m not aware of anyone on this blog saying that Indians don’t pay taxes.  I certainly never said any such thing, because it isn’t true.  In fact, I remember specifically saying more than once that Indians do pay taxes.

Wherever you got your information, they’re lying to you.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 01:39 pm
Avatar for StandingRockSon

You are so smug in your revelation because you think you know something new.  You kick at the little dignity my people retain.  But woo hoo, you are headlines now and you’ve got your little blog clique to support this ingenious plan to simply discard reservations and reform the heathen.  An obvious right because it is YOUR tax money.  Christ, why didn’t someone think of that before?

Imagine that somebody visited a grandmother and subsequently wrote about the nicotine, bingo daubed, cess pool of a home.  Should the children come out and say “I never knew” or are they more likely to say “Go to hell for invading my family matters.” 

A ban from the tribal lands has not affected your right to freedom of speech.  So stop that crock and understand humility and discretion.

If the headlines were truely for the quality of your plan, then take some credit.  However you take potshots at a community who made a decision that you are not welcome.  A community with the obvious right.  A community that existed long before your 15 hour visit and will continue long after the news of your run-in with the tribal council.

StandingRockSon on May 16, 2007 at 01:54 pm

I originally was referring emotionally safety.

Rob, I want you to be careful that the Indians on the Rez might hurt your feelings.

Now to “Member”:

I’ve been verbally assaulted for wanting to hear some good from people.

I didn’t know that you could “verbally assaulted” by having people challenge your opinions.  I don’t find any derogatory statements or language directed at you personally.  No name calling.  Just challenging your positions.  But considering that you considered everything said on this site as violent hate speech, it is not a surprise that you call the comments on this thread a verbal assault.

Do you see the hate your column has created?... I agree with freedom of speech, but when freedom of speech involves violent language, it shouldn’t be free.

We verbally assaulted you according to your comments.  Does that mean that our speech here shouldn’t be free?

Justin B. on May 16, 2007 at 02:07 pm

Imagine that somebody visited a grandmother and subsequently wrote about the nicotine, bingo daubed, cess pool of a home.  Should the children come out and say “I never knew” or are they more likely to say “Go to hell for invading my family matters.”

SRS,

Those children, if they aren’t too ashamed to keep quite, should explain how they could allow their grandmother to live in such conditions in the first place.  Letting this happen is NOT a show of respect for one’s elders!


“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Bat One on May 16, 2007 at 02:10 pm
Avatar for Cat

That the poverty has been so long ignored in the PR of these tribes (there are more, trust me) and then when someone addresses the poverty as an issue, they are thrown off the land because they didn’t comment on the well-to-do side of things, is boggling.

Had the entry also included the well-to-do side of the tribe, the contrast might have been much more horrific. 

People should know what substandard conditions are being hidden from us all and we should all carry the burden of righting that wrong.

However, taking away the home and banning from the rez anyone that speaks out as a danger to the tribe or as someone bashing what remains of native dignity is a crock.

Concealing the poverty is the shame.  Outing it gives everyone a chance to do something about it. To make this sound racist is stupid. 

That it may reveal inequities in the distribution of funds, or even corruption is not racist. It is how we end corruption and give voice to those who have nothing.

And who now have lost a voice of concern because he is considered as dangerous as drugs to the Tribal Council of Turtle Mountain.

The logical question needs to be asked:  Millions of dollars of Tax MOney (everyone’s tax $$) and casino money goes into the rez.  HOW is it being used? Who is controlling it?

Perhaps that is the question being raised that is so “shameful” and which so “disgraces” the elite and comfortable of the Turtle Mountain Tribe who then say they are defending and protecting the dignity of all indians by silencing a voice of question.

Cat on May 16, 2007 at 02:10 pm

Should the children come out and say “I never knew” or are they more likely to say “Go to hell for invading my family matters.”

So the Indian reservation equals “family”.

That’s one hell of a dysfunctional family. Junior is in jail, a couple of uncles are meth dealers, the kids have dropped out of school, the young lady is knocked up, the father was never there, mom is wondering what went wrong, grandpa is babbling about shadowy conspiracies and grandma is wondering what happened to a once proud people.

But let it be said that not everybody in the family is dysfunctional! We just have to state that because people get their panties in a bunch if we don’t.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 02:19 pm
Avatar for anonymous

I’ve followed this blog for about a month regarding the Turtle Mountain reservation. Many times I’ve read others commenting on tax money, regardless if its in the original blog… the viewers are quick to comment and assume Natives and reservations don’t pay taxes. One little side note, on reservations, they still pay the gas taxes yet no money is given for the roads. That sure doesn’t make sense.

I don’t think Hikemp is worrying about Robert Ports safety physically or emotionally… I am assuming that was in reference to emotionally protect the people you all continue to insult.

Justin B. and likwidshoe you are both very sad unhappy people… I am sorry you live in such a sad world. And sad that so many of you hope to tear down others to sit in misery with the rest of you.

anonymous on May 16, 2007 at 02:29 pm
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

Well said, Cat.  The reservation system, and the tribal governments, need a great deal of scrutiny.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 02:31 pm
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

Anonymous, while perhaps some on this blog have argued that the Indians don’t pay taxes I’ve never made that argument.

I’ve also agreed with another reader in the past that it is indeed unfair that the Indians pay the gas tax but don’t get any money for their roads.

As for protecting the people of the reservation from me, that’s absurd.  All I did was tell the truth.  That some find that truth inconvenient or angering is beyond my control.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 02:34 pm

anonymous - Many times I’ve read others commenting on tax money, regardless if its in the original blog… the viewers are quick to comment and assume Natives and reservations don’t pay taxes.

WHERE? Point it out. A few of you have asserted this and not a one of you have ever pointed it out when asked.

I am assuming that was in reference to emotionally protect the people you all continue to insult.

How is that going to work? Rob’s still going to write and you guys just can’t help but to read it. All of that has nothing to do with his actual physical presence on the reservation.

Justin B. and likwidshoe you are both very sad unhappy people… I am sorry you live in such a sad world.

I’m sad and unhappy because I mercilessly tear apart the welfare state? Whatever. You’re sad for supporting it.

And sad that so many of you hope to tear down others to sit in misery with the rest of you.

It’s sad that you sit there and defend the poverty. Are you doing that because you hope to tear down others to sit in the misery with you? I wonder.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 02:36 pm

Justin B. and likwidshoe you are both very sad unhappy people… I am sorry you live in such a sad world.

I am sad because in about four hours I have to go downtown in Phoenix to watch the Suns play the Spurs without Amare and Boris Diaw playing.  If the Suns don’t win at least one of the next two games, this may be the last home game that we have and the rest of my season tickets will go unused.  I am miserable that David Stern and Stu Jackson punished these players for leaving the bench.

Funny, but if you read my blog, I spend all winter skiing; have season tickets to the Suns, Cardinals, and ASU Sun Devils; own a brand new Jeep Rubicon Unlimited (well an ‘06, not the four door); have a wonderful wife and three beautiful kids; own four businesses; graduated top of my class from ASU in Business; and live in a big house in the suburbs.  I have a great job with a Fortune 20 company making a six figure income. 

I don’t point this out because I want to feel better about myself, I point it out because I grew up on the south side of Billings to a single mother and was about as poor as one can be.  I have made a hell of a life for myself.  But instead of taking the personal challenge to leave behing the poverty, drugs, alcohol, crime, unemployment, and so on of the reservation system that holds Indians captive to these elements, you and your tribe members come on here and attack us for simply pointing out that there is another way and a better life available and that the reservation system in its current form is destroying lives and desecrating YOUR CULTURE and YOUR PEOPLE.  When kids on the Rez grow up with that kind of poverty and unemployment and crime, etc., going on around them, they never learn the optomism and hope that allows them to excel.  That is what sadness and misery is.  It is being talented and intelligent and throwing it away because of the dysfunction of your family, friends, and neighbors and a lack of role models and values to aspire to.  I would suggest that more of your tribe leave the reservation for the opportunities to raise their children in something other than the crime ridden poverty that permeates the reservation system so that they actually have a chance to not be another statistic of an Indian addicted to substances, chronically unemployed, and dead far before their time.  If you want to know misery, look around your community at all the good people that have gone from having so much potential to being nothing.  To being another wasted life.

Justin B. on May 16, 2007 at 02:56 pm

Banned. Like a risque’ novel or offensive rock album. Does this mean they are going to shun you, too?

From this thread I would have to say no. They need some schooling on how to do this banning thing, obviously.

I could try to find the links to some of the DoJ and Commerce crap on TM Rez. Lost a pile of stuff clearing virusi out of my laptop, but I believe they may still be in the search history file.

Perhaps it is time more bloggers started focussing on Reservation issues, nothing takes the sting out of a banning like aiming a big, honkin’ spotlight on the matter.

Hell, I’m gonna go trawl googlearth and images, see what bloggy goodness we can find.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on May 16, 2007 at 03:13 pm
Avatar for Robert Perry

Good luck.  It seems to me that this, as well as innumerable offenses by our nation’s universities (like the Hamline University student suspended for suggesting carry on campus might work better than unilateral disarmament) suggests that if we’ve ever had a golden—or even silver or bronze—age of discourse, it’s long over.

And the incredibly interesting thing about this is that Rob wasn’t saying that people on the reservation were to be blamed, but rather the government.  Methinks that says something about public education there, and something not entirely polite.

Robert Perry on May 16, 2007 at 03:17 pm
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

What’s funny is that I rarely go to the TM reservation.  Their ban isn’t really going to change anything.  My blog will still be here, and unless the tribe has the ability to censor the internet folks on the reservation will still be able to read.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 03:28 pm
Avatar for StandingRockSon

you bring up poverty because you expect the cause to be corruption.  You must have some secret source (i.e. some small towne newspaper with a ignorant editor).  Indigenous people have been left to the least conditions around the world.

I am not puppy.  I’ll explain for those of you who know REZ but lack any other phases - A Native American must register with the tribe to get tribe benefits, i.e. per cap, medical benefits, college benefits.  so puppy is a reference to the AKC system of registering breeds. 

My story is that my grandmother moved off the Rez to give us a chance at something better.  The assumption being capitalism and the American Dream are the ultimate forms of living. 

And so Rob peeks into the world of the reservation and he cries foul.  Rob, were you jealous of Cowell and Idol Gives Back?... because the living is something different.  It is not racism but it is ingnorance.  What may desire to be patriarchal is instead condescending and maligned.

StandingRockSon on May 16, 2007 at 03:58 pm

This old ad from the 70’s was the first thing I thought of after reading Rob’s original column.  I was living in LA at the time and my neighborhood looked a lot like that ad, it struck me hard.  It was an effective wake up call.

The ad was not ‘dissing’ the white-man, or claiming that the ENTIRE country was a garbage heap or EVERYONE was screw-up.  The indian in the commercial was not angry at Americans, just saddened that our society had sunk so far and nobody really noticed or cared.  Especially the people in charge.

I just found the number of mirrored-themes to be ironic.

Disclamer: I am 1 / 512th Navaho, and damn proud.

RealManOfGenius on May 16, 2007 at 04:09 pm

A ring of truth exists in Mr. Port’s observation.  The Turtle Mountain Tribal Council has neglected to enforce tribal homeowners/renters to clean up the areas leased by tribal members.  The first housing project built in the 1970’s (Turtleville) resembles a slum area and should be torn down and possibly rebuilt with the Turtle Mountain Housing Staff doing periodic walk throughs on the apartments to ensure they are not being destroyed. This is their responsibility to us as tribal members to earn their salaries.  Responsibility needs to be taught to our children and rules must be enforced.  If it is a true statement, liability is not an issue.

gullit on May 16, 2007 at 04:27 pm
Avatar for curtis d

so your coulumn “exposed the state of life on the “rez”????
thats stuffs been known for years. its the way your racist termonology is expressed is whats pissing people off.

curtis d on May 16, 2007 at 04:29 pm

its the way your racist termonology is expressed is whats pissing people off.

Go ahead and point out that “racist termonology”. Back up your libelous charge.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 04:33 pm
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

Curtis, can you cite an example of racist language from my original column?  Or anything I’ve written?


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 04:38 pm

Gullit, I hope you are not subjected to any form of punishment for saying those things!  Such as what Mr. Port has been subjected to.

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 05:10 pm

Rob

Curtis, can you cite an example of racist language from my original column?  Or anything I’ve written?

This is the thing. No one will do that. Despite the hundreds of racist accusations, no one will cite what they consider to be the racist content. Also, notably, last night Misty, who is from the rezzy, admitted she doesn’t find it to be racist. She just faults you for not writing about stuff you didn’t see. Makes sense to me… not.


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 16, 2007 at 05:14 pm

It was interesting reading Justin B’s comments about leaving the reservation to obtain the American Dream.  While watching TV or reading the newspapers (Parade), I was shocked to learn that Johnny Depp, Boyance’s mother, Bill Clinton claim Native American Heritage.  None of these people have presented themselves as role models to young Native American children.  Why??  Any answers???

gullit on May 16, 2007 at 05:32 pm
Avatar for Andrew

I am sad because in about four hours I have to go downtown in Phoenix to watch the Suns play the Spurs without Amare and Boris Diaw playing.

Justin B., what part of Arizona are you from? I just spent the last week in Arizona (Phoenix, Scottsdale, Sardona, and Flagstaff) visiting with my sister.

Andrew on May 16, 2007 at 05:32 pm

Justin B, comments like yours are espoused daily in my house and the reason I like Rob’s site so much.  There’s a lot of that sentiment here, and I like that!

Thank you!

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 05:49 pm
Avatar for curtis d

im not “allowed” to the original story.
your geeks are at work.can you show me the original story?

curtis d on May 16, 2007 at 05:52 pm
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

Curtis, this is the link.

The column is at the bottom of that post under “Original Column.”


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 06:02 pm
Avatar for Dave

Of course you don’t know the tribal goverment and the role of the council.  The tribal chairman does not vote unless there is a tie that needs to be broken.  Your ass was unanimously voted off the rez you redneck…thus a vote by the chairman was not possible or necessary…now stay off you racist pig.

Dave on May 16, 2007 at 07:11 pm
Rob
Rob
22123 comments
Send a private message

Dave,

Wanna explain why the tribal council didn’t follow their own law?  Was wasn’t the Exclusion Order Board convened?  Why was I not notified of an Exclusion Order Board hearing as the law requires?  Why was I not afforded an opportunity to speak on my own behalf?

Not only is this banning unconstitutional, in my opinion, the tribe didn’t even follow it’s own law in the process.

As for your racist charge, I’ll issue you the same challenge as everyone else: Find one single instance in my column or anywhere on this blog where I’ve been racist.

I won’t hold my breath waiting…


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on May 16, 2007 at 07:15 pm

Your ass was unanimously voted off the rez you redneck…thus a vote by the chairman was not possible or necessary…now stay off you racist pig.

Go ahead and point out the “racist pig” comment[s]. Back up your libelous charge.

Nobody ever backs the charge up. They have all been full of shit. This is not surprising considering where you come from Dave: a pit that sucks money from the productive and pukes out the dysfunctional.

Now go cry to your reservation masters. Someone is saying something you don’t like. Maybe your reservation mommy and daddy can protect you from the big bad Robs out there in the world who speak of unpleasant truths.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 07:18 pm
Avatar for Kade

Rob,

I think you have received your first taste of what it feels like to be powerless.  You have enjoyed white privilege for so long that you can now do nothing but gnash your teeth in impotence.

You have no power except to spread hate…you have that right under the US constitution, but you do not have any rights under the Turtle Mountain constitution…thus you have no due process in this case.

Kade on May 16, 2007 at 07:23 pm

I’m growing convinced that none of these people have read the article…

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 07:27 pm
Avatar for Kade

I have read the article.  I also know that Rob has no recourse under the tribal constitution…he is not a member of the tribe - thus he has no rights on the reservation or in tribal court/tribal council.

Impotence is bliss.

Kade on May 16, 2007 at 07:29 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

Kade: are you suggesting that people from outside the reservation shouldn’t enjoy the same legal protections as someone who lives on the reservation?

Seth Williams on May 16, 2007 at 07:29 pm
Avatar for Kade

Read 18CFR and 25CFR

This should explain it perfectly.

Kade on May 16, 2007 at 07:31 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

I’m too easily distracted by shiny things to read legalese, why not sum it up for me?

By the way, why not answer the question: do you support the notion that Rob should have no rights on the reservation?

Seth Williams on May 16, 2007 at 07:33 pm
Avatar for Kade

Yes.  He should not.

Kade on May 16, 2007 at 07:36 pm
Avatar for StandingRockSon

none of which people have read the article?  your little boy likwidshoe must have it all right since both of you haven’t mentioned anything expressive except “prove I am racist.”

The racist doesn’t know what he is because he’s is too ignorant to hear the oppositions view.

StandingRockSon on May 16, 2007 at 07:38 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

I think you mean “No, he should not.”

So since you subscribe to that notion, you must also subscribe to the notion that illegal immigrants do not enjoy the same civil liberties as citizens, and that the detainees in Gitmo do not have the right to due process.

I applaud your principled stand!

Seth Williams on May 16, 2007 at 07:40 pm

Kade - I think you have received your first taste of what it feels like to be powerless.

Powerless? They kicked him out of a dump filled with people who are dangerous. Really - it’s just about principle at this point. The reservation doesn’t offer much else.

You have enjoyed white privilege for so long that you can now do nothing but gnash your teeth in impotence.

In reality, Rob and most of the rest of us are going to continue to live our lives and be mildly amused at this passing story. Meanwhile, the impoverished Indians will remain segregated and suffering under their problems.

You have no power except to spread hate…

“Hate” does not equal viewpoints you disagree with. Grow up.

...thus he has no rights on the reservation or in tribal court/tribal council.

But they will accept his money. In fact, they’ll cry for more. Because they’re like that.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 07:41 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

StandingRockSon: seems like a rather loose interpretation of racism: “if you don’t support my view, you’re racist”

Do I have that right?

Seth Williams on May 16, 2007 at 07:43 pm
Avatar for Kade

As far as I can see, white people are illegal immigrants on this continent, and mexicans (who possess Indian blood) are indigenous.  I have less problems with Mexican immigration than I do with the flood of illegals who came to the new world after 1492.

Kade on May 16, 2007 at 07:43 pm

StandingRockSon - The racist doesn’t know what he is because he’s is too ignorant to hear the oppositions view.

Still no proof, I see.

We hear “the oppositions view”. We don’t agree with it. That doesn’t make one a racist.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 07:45 pm

I don’t know if anyone else has thought this through, but after reading all these comments with all this belligerence and racist hatred coming FROM the reservation, I believe the next time I feel the urge to spend a weekend sitting at a blackjack table, I’ll just take my money down to the Bahamas or Jamaica.

You can transfer money with a few clicks of a mouse.  And all you really need is a passport, some shorts, a golf shirt or two, and a willingness to be made to feel like a very special guest.


“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Bat One on May 16, 2007 at 07:45 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

Kade: so it’s a case of “I was here first”?

Then surely you support the right of Jews to have an independent state in Israel, since they were there before there ever was a “Palestine” (or Christianity, or Islam for that matter).

Seth Williams on May 16, 2007 at 07:47 pm
Avatar for Kade

Now you drag the jews into this???

Kade on May 16, 2007 at 07:49 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

...oh, and since the Mexicans are only part indiginous, then I guess they should have only partial civil liberties when they come here illegally? Do I have that right Kade?

Seth Williams on May 16, 2007 at 07:50 pm

Kade - As far as I can see, white people are illegal immigrants on this continent, and mexicans (who possess Indian blood) are indigenous.

I was born in America and have lived my entire life here. That makes me a native American.

This blood/race claim of yours is silly. We’re in this country together. And really, it’s funny to watch young Indians tell older people that they were here first (not that I’m necessarily older, but others around here are).

I have less problems with Mexican immigration than I do with the flood of illegals who came to the new world after 1492.

Are you 515 years old? You’ve got beef that goes back hundreds of years! That can’t be healthy.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 07:50 pm
Avatar for StandingRockSon

Immigrants and detainees are new found words long after Indian.  Indigenous and Native are proper terminology.  You want to compare my ancestors plight to foreigners?

Your lore about paul bunyan and scalping are sickening.  You made a history when you had none and you continue to ignore the true history so that you can say, we, Native Americans are only complaining about a century old suppression.  Moneys from gambling are not moneys from Indians.  Seminole attempts to purchase Hard Rock have been challenged because it shows recovery by Native people.

Our strength increases from your wickedness and WE ARE PROUD.

StandingRockSon on May 16, 2007 at 07:51 pm
Avatar for Melissa

OMG!!! You make every member of the Turtle Mountain Tribe out to be uncaring pigs, and you wonder why we don’t care for you much…  Use your common sense Rob!  I pray that when my children are out and about, they will not be taunted by all of your half truth words you wrote… Did you think about them Rob? My innocent children! They are who I live my life for… You have labeled them before they have any chance in this festering world… I am doing everything I can to make them wonderful people, they are our future. I feel I need to defend them because of YOU!! I am not the only parent who feels raped by your comments. You have abused your welcome on our reservation… Stay away from us… If you didn’t mean the whole reservation Rob, you should have mentioned so.. Any other good reporter would have… Are there any reporters who have a reputation on fairness, accuracy, and honesty??  Send them my way… Oh, by the way Rob… I don’t want to hear from your sidekicks… It is obvious they want to keep kicking us when we are down…  I want answers from you…. 

  One Angry Indian Momma , Melissa A.

Melissa on May 16, 2007 at 07:54 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

I drag the Jews into it because I’m following the logic of your “first come, first served” theory of law and history to its logical conclusions, when applied to other circumstances.

Or does the standard only apply when it advantages a group—arbitrarily defined by ethinc/cultural characteristics—you have an emotional affinity for?

...but if that’s the case, then you’ll have to forgive me for thinking you something of a bigot.

Seth Williams on May 16, 2007 at 07:54 pm

StandingRockSon - Our strength increases from your wickedness and WE ARE PROUD.

Oh good grief.

Meanwhile, you might want to fix the problems on the reservations. The Indians haven’t been showing strength. Instead, they’re dying as a people and the final nails in the coffin will be pounded in by other Indians.

But keep on beating your chest. See where it gets you.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 07:55 pm

Melissa - OMG!!! You make every member of the Turtle Mountain Tribe out to be uncaring pigs…

Even after he has repeatedly stated (not that it wasn’t already obvious) that not everybody lives in the squalor described.

I wish some of you could read.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 07:57 pm
Avatar for StandingRockSon

the prior declaration was that a native american stating “i am a tax payer” was value-less because nobody said explicitly s/he did not pay taxes.  I never stated any of you were racist.  therefore, it follows you are jumping at worthless discussonary bits.

StandingRockSon on May 16, 2007 at 07:58 pm

Impotence is bliss.

Kade on May 16, 2007 at 10:29 pm

Did you intend to say that?

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 08:00 pm
Avatar for StandingRockSon

likwidshoe is simply someone not of this discussion, as such i have tried to keep my attention on the rest of you.

StandingRockSon on May 16, 2007 at 08:02 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

SRS, when you stated:

none of which people have read the article?  your little boy likwidshoe must have it all right since both of you haven’t mentioned anything expressive except “prove I am racist.”

The racist doesn’t know what he is because he’s is too ignorant to hear the oppositions view.

...it sure read like an accusation of racsim. But if I read it wrong, then my apologies. My point was that mere disagreement is a low threshhold for labling one a racist. Wouldn’t you agree?

Seth Williams on May 16, 2007 at 08:04 pm

Kade,

I have read the article.

  Great, so where is Rob spewing hate?

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 08:08 pm
Avatar for StandingRockSon

surely i agree.  insomuch i baited the statement so that i might bring back the statement about Natives being taxpayers too.  Don’t fooly pry at imagineless topics but give me something meaningful to discuss. I twice posted prior statements with matter undiscussed.  but it is the meaningless foibles that get response.

StandingRockSon on May 16, 2007 at 08:09 pm

StandingRockSon - the prior declaration was that a native american stating “i am a tax payer” was value-less because nobody said explicitly s/he did not pay taxes.

This is jibberish.

I never stated any of you were racist.  therefore, it follows you are jumping at worthless discussonary bits.

Then why would you bring it up?

likwidshoe is simply someone not of this discussion, as such i have tried to keep my attention on the rest of you.

I’m of this discussion. If you chose to ignore me, then by all means, do so. But don’t lie about the situation.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 08:10 pm

StandingRockSon - surely i agree.  insomuch i baited the statement so that i might bring back the statement about Natives being taxpayers too.

So you’re just being dishonest.

That explains a lot.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 08:12 pm
Avatar for Seth Williams

but it is the meaningless foibles that get response

Welcome to the internet.

Seth Williams on May 16, 2007 at 08:14 pm

insomuch i baited the statement so that i might bring back the statement about Natives being taxpayers too.

SRS, so then.  You pay income taxes?  What percentage do you pay?

Seth Yantiss on May 16, 2007 at 08:17 pm
Avatar for StandingRockSon

dishonest? no.  welcome to the internet?  surely.  too bad rob left.  I sent Doreen a email today and my hope is she might make her way here. 

best wishes to the lot of ya’ll.  Mightst growth and acceptance become your kine.  I hope that acceptance be fashionable and ingorance expunged.  do not suppose what you have not experienced and do not haplessly praise the comedians of the internet.

StandingRockSon on May 16, 2007 at 08:24 pm

Seth - you don’t get. Because Indians pay taxes, that excuses the fact that their community is awash in welfare.

See the logic there? Me neither.

The next step is to say that other communities have problems as well.

It’s all a deflection game and quite a few of them have been playing it.

likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 08:25 pm
Avatar for StandingRockSon

my taxable liability was over 5K this year.

StandingRockSon on May 16, 2007 at 08:26 pm
Page 1 of 5         1 2 3 >  Last »

Post a Comment


Before commenting, please recite:

Grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

If you want to ignore a fellow commenter, download this.

Name   
Email   
URL   
Human?
  
 

Upload Image    

Remember my personal information

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Note: Notifications will only be sent to confirmed email addresses.

    

By submitting your comment you agree to our terms of service.