My Banishment From The Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation Makes The Grand Forks Herald

Yesterday I gave an interview to Susanne Nadeau of the Grand Forks Herald about my apparent banishment from the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation, and today she’s got an article out about it (it should be noted that Susanne herself is a member of the Turtle Mountain tribe). You can read it here. She’s also included a copy of the tribal code used by the tribe to banish me (click here) and a copy of the actual order issued by the council banning me (click here).
I’d note that yesterday, when Susanne emailed it to me, is the first time I’ve gotten an opportunity to read the actual banishment order.
I’ve got several reactions to this.
First, and foremost, I’d point out that this banishment doesn’t appear to be legal under the tribe’s own code. According to the tribes Exclusion and Removal code (linked above) people facing banishment are to be afforded some level of due process before that banishment happens. From the link:

39.0110 Administrative Hearing on Exclusion and Removal in Non-Emergency Situations.
(1) In non-emergency cases of exclusion and/or removal, the Exclusion Ordinance Board shall cause to be served upon the offending person a copy of the Petition and Notice of Hearing by personal service, or if such service is not reasonably possible, by registered mail, return receipt requested, to the last known address of such person. Such Notice shall contain the date and time of the administrative pre-exclusion hearing, which hearing shall be not less than three days from the date of service, and shall further inform the person that he or she may appear with counsel at his or her own expense and present evidence in his or her own behalf.
(2) The administrative pre-exclusion hearing on a proposed exclusion and/or removal may be held at a regular session of the Exclusion Ordinance Board.
(3) The Exclusion Ordinance Board shall hear the evidence presented, and if appropriate, recommend the exclusion and/or removal of the person to the Tribal Chairman. If the person is not present at such hearing, or if a decision thereon is not rendered until after the hearing, appropriate notice shall be served on the person in the manner provided above, informing him of the action of the Tribal Chairman. Such notice shall include a copy of any recommendation made by the Exclusion Board to the Tribal Chairman for exclusion and/or removal that affects such person.

I would note that I have never been served notice of a hearing of the Exclusion Board nor was I afforded an opportunity to attend any such hearing. I’d also note that the resolution supposedly banning me from the reservation was not passed by the Exclusion Board but rather the Tribal Council. Finally, I’d note that according to the resolution passed by the Tribal Council the Chairman, David Brien, who is supposed to have final say on banishments did not vote on the resolution.
I, personally, don’t think these banishments are Constitutional, but this one doesn’t even appear to be legal under the tribe’s own laws. I wasn’t afforded due process. I wasn’t notified about the banishment (were it not for my blog readers and/or Susanne Nadeau I still wouldn’t even know about it) and I wasn’t given an opportunity to speak on my own behalf. That’s not right.
Second, I’d like to address this from the article:

Last year, the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa adopted its exclusion code, a tribal ordinance that creates a process to permanently banish or withhold services from tribal members and nonmembers who are involved in serious crimes.
It was put into place because of growing concerns about illicit drugs on reservations and the lack of jurisdiction tribes have over nonmembers who deal with, possess, or use drugs. Only serious felony offenses committed by members or nonmembers of the tribe are federally prosecuted.
The exclusion ordinance has been used once before, when the tribe banned Calvin John Andrist, who is not a member of the tribe but living on the reservation. Andrist was removed after a request to the tribal council from tribal law enforcement officers, who said Andrist was involved in numerous drug-related actions from the summer of 2005 to March 8, 2006.
Tribal members and non-tribal members who are repeat offenders either dealing in drugs or committing sex offenses can be banned from the reservation permanently, according to the ordinance. Tribal members are given warnings before they are banned, according to the ordinance.
Non-tribal members can be banished without warning if the tribe deems immediate removal necessary.

This exclusionary code was developed by the tribe as a way to ban drug dealers, sex offenders and other criminals from the reservation. But now, the second time they’ve used it since creating it, they’ve banned someone for stating political opinions they find inconvenient. And this is happening in America and not some eastern-European country that hasn’t entirely forgotten its communist roots, if you can believe that.
I made a point to Susanne during the interview, though I see it didn’t make it into the article, but the status of political dissent on the reservations. If the tribe is willing and capable of banning me, someone who isn’t even a member of the tribe, from the reservation just imagine the lengths it would go through to make life hell for people who actually speak out while living on the reservation.
Talk about a chilling effect on free speech.
Third, in the resolution banning me it states that there have been comments on this blog about Indian children being “bastards” and Indian women being “welfare queens.” I’d point out that I never made such comments. Other commenters did, unfortunately, but that’s how this whole “free speech” thing works. Sometimes it gets ugly. I’d point out that several tribal members from Turtle Mountain have made obscene and insulting comments to me in the wake of this controversy, and a few have even posted/emailed threats, yet I’m not holding the entire Turtle Mountain tribe responsible for those comments. It’s absurd that I should be held responsible for comments my readers make on this blog.
Fourth, I’d note that in the article Tribal Vice Chairman Ted Henry said that part of the banning was, in effect, for my protection. Doesn’t that speak volumes about the state of affairs on the reservation? And, frankly, lend support to the thesis of my original column?
Finally, I want to thank Herald city beat reporter Tu-Uyen Tran for standing by me in this controversy. It means a lot, even if he does it with a “I don’t always agree with Rob” disclaimer.
C’mon Tu. Embrace your inner conservative.
Update: Chuck Simmins from the North Shore Journal emails along his support, and a link to a post he’s written about the Herald article.
Update: Herald opinion editor (and friend) Tom Dennis responds to the controversy, and while he disagrees with the banishment he does criticize me for being “intemperate” in my column. I’d like to respond to that.
Intemperate is the wrong word, I think. That makes me sound angry, and I didn’t write the column in anger.
I think Tom’s real complaint is that perhaps the column wasn’t as balanced as it should be (i.e. pointing out that not all Indians live the way I observed). I’ll accept that criticism, but would point out that I took for granted that people would know that not all Indians live that way.
My mistake, perhaps. I may have been a bit naive on that point.
Tom’s metaphor about the media coverage of the Iraq war isn’t apt though, I don’t think. I wrote one column. The media’s bias in covering the war in Iraq encompasses hundreds of stories filed daily. One story can be about something negative without needing to mention the positive aspects of the war, but those stories should be leveled out with other stories about positive things.
In my column I chose to cover one single negative issue about the reservations, and I covered it in-depth. I didn’t mention other positive aspects of the reservation as they weren’t really germane to the point I was making.
Finally, comparing our entire American economy to that of Mexico’s isn’t all that apt either. Mexico doesn’t have a free economy like ours. They suffer from rampant burdensome government and corruption.
If Tom wanted to compare Mexico’s economy to something he really should have compared it to the reservation’s economy, where the tribe’s vice-like control (coupled with our government’s unfortunate past decisions to segregate the Indians onto these remote parcels of land) is ruining their economy.

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  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    I don’t know what you’re all talking about when you assume Natives don’t pay taxes. Talk about ignorance.

    Who made that assumption? Can you point it out for us? It’s easy enough to just give us the link.

    You’re not going to be able to throw these things out there and not get called on them.

    But again, Mr. Port was challenged in some responses to do something about these poor conditions and spend a little more time getting to know the community before seeing only negative things… and did he do so? No.

    It’s not his community nor is it his responsibility. Rob doesn’t have to jump through a bunch of hoops to earn free speech.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Seth – you don’t get. Because Indians pay taxes, that excuses the fact that their community is awash in welfare.

    See the logic there? Me neither.

    The next step is to say that other communities have problems as well.

    It’s all a deflection game and quite a few of them have been playing it.

  • Seth Williams

    I think you mean “No, he should not.”

    So since you subscribe to that notion, you must also subscribe to the notion that illegal immigrants do not enjoy the same civil liberties as citizens, and that the detainees in Gitmo do not have the right to due process.

    I applaud your principled stand!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    its the way your racist termonology is expressed is whats pissing people off.

    Go ahead and point out that “racist termonology”. Back up your libelous charge.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com/ Robert Perry

    Member, if you want to “hear some good” from people, it helps a little bit to refrain from calling people ignorant and accusing them of inciting hate. Put differently, if you want to remind others of what your mama told you (and mine did me too), it helps to apply that in your own life.

  • andy l

    Falsely disseminating with the intent to defame is actionable.
    That fits very well into the legal definition and grounds for successful litigation against you.
    It would likely be fruitless though as I hear that you do not have a job.
    Who supports you so that you can blog day and night?
    I hope it is not the taxpayers of ND or the U.S., or are you supported by your sovereign nation?
    Just_Me on May 17, 2007 at 12:16 pm

    Go ahead, sue. If that’s all you got. I’d really enjoy facing any one of you in court. Have at it.

    I’m just an Indian. I enjoy a good battle.

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Justin B. and likwidshoe you are both very sad unhappy people… I am sorry you live in such a sad world.

    I am sad because in about four hours I have to go downtown in Phoenix to watch the Suns play the Spurs without Amare and Boris Diaw playing. If the Suns don’t win at least one of the next two games, this may be the last home game that we have and the rest of my season tickets will go unused. I am miserable that David Stern and Stu Jackson punished these players for leaving the bench.

    Funny, but if you read my blog, I spend all winter skiing; have season tickets to the Suns, Cardinals, and ASU Sun Devils; own a brand new Jeep Rubicon Unlimited (well an ’06, not the four door); have a wonderful wife and three beautiful kids; own four businesses; graduated top of my class from ASU in Business; and live in a big house in the suburbs. I have a great job with a Fortune 20 company making a six figure income.

    I don’t point this out because I want to feel better about myself, I point it out because I grew up on the south side of Billings to a single mother and was about as poor as one can be. I have made a hell of a life for myself. But instead of taking the personal challenge to leave behing the poverty, drugs, alcohol, crime, unemployment, and so on of the reservation system that holds Indians captive to these elements, you and your tribe members come on here and attack us for simply pointing out that there is another way and a better life available and that the reservation system in its current form is destroying lives and desecrating YOUR CULTURE and YOUR PEOPLE. When kids on the Rez grow up with that kind of poverty and unemployment and crime, etc., going on around them, they never learn the optomism and hope that allows them to excel. That is what sadness and misery is. It is being talented and intelligent and throwing it away because of the dysfunction of your family, friends, and neighbors and a lack of role models and values to aspire to. I would suggest that more of your tribe leave the reservation for the opportunities to raise their children in something other than the crime ridden poverty that permeates the reservation system so that they actually have a chance to not be another statistic of an Indian addicted to substances, chronically unemployed, and dead far before their time. If you want to know misery, look around your community at all the good people that have gone from having so much potential to being nothing. To being another wasted life.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com/ Robert Perry

    Just read the article, and it’s worse than I first suspected. The band has actually passed an ordinance to keep criminals away, and not the ordinance is being applied to those who are emphatically not criminals. Are we somehow to believe that this makes anyone safer? Again, the rule of law is being trashed at Turtle Mountain, and residents should take notice and move away.

    Never mind the sublime idiocy of thinking that a reservation ban is going to be a better deterrent to crime than putting people in jail for their crimes.

  • Kade

    Rob,

    I think you have received your first taste of what it feels like to be powerless. You have enjoyed white privilege for so long that you can now do nothing but gnash your teeth in impotence.

    You have no power except to spread hate…you have that right under the US constitution, but you do not have any rights under the Turtle Mountain constitution…thus you have no due process in this case.

  • Kade

    I have read the article. I also know that Rob has no recourse under the tribal constitution…he is not a member of the tribe – thus he has no rights on the reservation or in tribal court/tribal council.

    Impotence is bliss.

  • StandingRockSon

    none of which people have read the article? your little boy likwidshoe must have it all right since both of you haven’t mentioned anything expressive except “prove I am racist.”

    The racist doesn’t know what he is because he’s is too ignorant to hear the oppositions view.

  • some one that cares

    You people are very sad how you bash at each other. Not everyone lives the way you all are talking, the real reason that everyone is pissed off, it that our children are our future. You are only hurting them by bashing at the way they live or the way they are!!! They are only human and have their faults. Sad sad people.

    God is the only person to judge the way we live or the way we are.

    remember that.

  • Seth Williams

    Kade: are you suggesting that people from outside the reservation shouldn’t enjoy the same legal protections as someone who lives on the reservation?

  • Bat One

    I don’t know if anyone else has thought this through, but after reading all these comments with all this belligerence and racist hatred coming FROM the reservation, I believe the next time I feel the urge to spend a weekend sitting at a blackjack table, I’ll just take my money down to the Bahamas or Jamaica.

    You can transfer money with a few clicks of a mouse. And all you really need is a passport, some shorts, a golf shirt or two, and a willingness to be made to feel like a very special guest.

  • Kade

    Read 18CFR and 25CFR

    This should explain it perfectly.

  • gullit

    It was interesting reading Justin B’s comments about leaving the reservation to obtain the American Dream. While watching TV or reading the newspapers (Parade), I was shocked to learn that Johnny Depp, Boyance’s mother, Bill Clinton claim Native American Heritage. None of these people have presented themselves as role models to young Native American children. Why?? Any answers???

  • RaeMarie70

    Seth- Who are you to decide whether or not I should hold the biases that I do? When you have lived my life, then we will talk about.
    Oh, I am sorry. I forgot where I was. Next time, I will agree with everything you say.

    It is amazing how many people on this blog think their view is the only view! Luckily, we live in a country where it is okay to be opinionated and vocal. However, how unfortunate for the people who are lazy, live off the government, don’t know how to raise children, live in houses that are filthy, poor, uneducated, are addicted to drugs and alcohol, victims, and don’t know any better. And because of who they are, they don’t count.

  • Seth Yantiss

    I’m growing convinced that none of these people have read the article…

  • StandingRockSon

    you bring up poverty because you expect the cause to be corruption. You must have some secret source (i.e. some small towne newspaper with a ignorant editor). Indigenous people have been left to the least conditions around the world.

    I am not puppy. I’ll explain for those of you who know REZ but lack any other phases – A Native American must register with the tribe to get tribe benefits, i.e. per cap, medical benefits, college benefits. so puppy is a reference to the AKC system of registering breeds.

    My story is that my grandmother moved off the Rez to give us a chance at something better. The assumption being capitalism and the American Dream are the ultimate forms of living.

    And so Rob peeks into the world of the reservation and he cries foul. Rob, were you jealous of Cowell and Idol Gives Back?… because the living is something different. It is not racism but it is ingnorance. What may desire to be patriarchal is instead condescending and maligned.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Should the children come out and say “I never knew” or are they more likely to say “Go to hell for invading my family matters.”

    So the Indian reservation equals “family”.

    That’s one hell of a dysfunctional family. Junior is in jail, a couple of uncles are meth dealers, the kids have dropped out of school, the young lady is knocked up, the father was never there, mom is wondering what went wrong, grandpa is babbling about shadowy conspiracies and grandma is wondering what happened to a once proud people.

    But let it be said that not everybody in the family is dysfunctional! We just have to state that because people get their panties in a bunch if we don’t.

  • Melissa A..

    How did I make it sound that way if I didn’t actually write that?
    I can only be responsible for what I actually say and write, not what you read into what I say/write.

    Rob, oh your so smart! You are getting exactly what you wanted from some of your readers…. Don’t play dumb now!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    StandingRockSon – The racist doesn’t know what he is because he’s is too ignorant to hear the oppositions view.

    Still no proof, I see.

    We hear “the oppositions view”. We don’t agree with it. That doesn’t make one a racist.

  • 2Hotel9

    Oh Dirk, your so forceful and manly. You’ll just sweep all discussion aside and instruct the lowly peons to mind their own business.

    You don’t really know people very well do you?

  • StandingRockSon

    dishonest? no. welcome to the internet? surely. too bad rob left. I sent Doreen a email today and my hope is she might make her way here.

    best wishes to the lot of ya’ll. Mightst growth and acceptance become your kine. I hope that acceptance be fashionable and ingorance expunged. do not suppose what you have not experienced and do not haplessly praise the comedians of the internet.

  • Seth Williams

    So RaeMarie…if I feel like someone disagreeing with me is harrassment, it is harrassment in actual fact? If a newspaper prints something about rising crime rates in my neighborhood (for example) but doesn’t explicitly state “…but a majority of residents are law-abiding”, then I am justified in feeling harassed? That seems to be what you are proposing.

    Seems to me like something is lacking from your definition of harassment. Best tighten that up, because I might point out that it seems to me like Rob feels he is being harrased by the tribal council.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Gullit, I hope you are not subjected to any form of punishment for saying those things! Such as what Mr. Port has been subjected to.

  • Dave

    Of course you don’t know the tribal goverment and the role of the council. The tribal chairman does not vote unless there is a tie that needs to be broken. Your ass was unanimously voted off the rez you redneck…thus a vote by the chairman was not possible or necessary…now stay off you racist pig.

  • Melissa A..

    Melissa, why don’t you start a readerblog here and tell us and show us the good things happening there? That is kinda what this blog thing is all about.

    2hotel9, That is a good idea, but most think it is a waste of time to say anything right now…

  • Seth Williams

    Well good for you! It’s not many people who are comfortable stating plainly that they’ll cling tight to thier emotinally driven biases, objectivity be damned…but you just did.

  • RaeMarie70

    That means roughly one in three of you are productive members of society that even merit us dignifying your poor me bullshit with a response.

    Then stop responding. Nobody makes you respond. You have all the power to stop. It means stop coming the threads.

  • Seth Williams

    but it is the meaningless foibles that get response

    Welcome to the internet.

  • Seth Williams

    SRS, when you stated:

    none of which people have read the article? your little boy likwidshoe must have it all right since both of you haven’t mentioned anything expressive except “prove I am racist.”

    The racist doesn’t know what he is because he’s is too ignorant to hear the oppositions view.

    …it sure read like an accusation of racsim. But if I read it wrong, then my apologies. My point was that mere disagreement is a low threshhold for labling one a racist. Wouldn’t you agree?

  • Andrew

    I am sad because in about four hours I have to go downtown in Phoenix to watch the Suns play the Spurs without Amare and Boris Diaw playing.

    Justin B., what part of Arizona are you from? I just spent the last week in Arizona (Phoenix, Scottsdale, Sardona, and Flagstaff) visiting with my sister.

  • Seth Yantiss

    insomuch i baited the statement so that i might bring back the statement about Natives being taxpayers too.

    SRS, so then. You pay income taxes? What percentage do you pay?

  • curtis d

    so your coulumn “exposed the state of life on the “rez”????
    thats stuffs been known for years. its the way your racist termonology is expressed is whats pissing people off.

  • andy l

    For those who read my whole post-
    Congratulations. You don’t have the attention span of a fish.
    Dirk Gently on May 17, 2007 at 03:15 pm

    You’re welcome. Finally made it to this thread. So busy having fun with Lik and Proof in the other one, couldn’t quite make it here. Great comment, by the way.

  • Member of Turtle Mtn.

    By the looks of this page, ignorance reigns. I’ve been verbally assaulted for wanting to hear some good from people. Nice.

  • Dirk Gently

    So long! And thanks for all the fish!
    -Proof on May 17, 2007 at 06:42 pm

    Was that accidental? Is is possible that you’ve read some Douglas Adams? If you have I’ll charitably offer you some minute respect. After all, Towel Day is right around the corner. :)

  • RealManOfGenius

    This old ad from the 70′s was the first thing I thought of after reading Rob’s original column. I was living in LA at the time and my neighborhood looked a lot like that ad, it struck me hard. It was an effective wake up call.

    The ad was not ‘dissing’ the white-man, or claiming that the ENTIRE country was a garbage heap or EVERYONE was screw-up. The indian in the commercial was not angry at Americans, just saddened that our society had sunk so far and nobody really noticed or cared. Especially the people in charge.

    I just found the number of mirrored-themes to be ironic.

    Disclamer: I am 1 / 512th Navaho, and damn proud.

  • Bat One

    Imagine that somebody visited a grandmother and subsequently wrote about the nicotine, bingo daubed, cess pool of a home. Should the children come out and say “I never knew” or are they more likely to say “Go to hell for invading my family matters.”

    SRS,

    Those children, if they aren’t too ashamed to keep quite, should explain how they could allow their grandmother to live in such conditions in the first place. Letting this happen is NOT a show of respect for one’s elders!

  • 2Hotel9

    Banned. Like a risque’ novel or offensive rock album. Does this mean they are going to shun you, too?

    From this thread I would have to say no. They need some schooling on how to do this banning thing, obviously.

    I could try to find the links to some of the DoJ and Commerce crap on TM Rez. Lost a pile of stuff clearing virusi out of my laptop, but I believe they may still be in the search history file.

    Perhaps it is time more bloggers started focussing on Reservation issues, nothing takes the sting out of a banning like aiming a big, honkin’ spotlight on the matter.

    Hell, I’m gonna go trawl googlearth and images, see what bloggy goodness we can find.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Your ass was unanimously voted off the rez you redneck…thus a vote by the chairman was not possible or necessary…now stay off you racist pig.

    Go ahead and point out the “racist pig” comment[s]. Back up your libelous charge.

    Nobody ever backs the charge up. They have all been full of shit. This is not surprising considering where you come from Dave: a pit that sucks money from the productive and pukes out the dysfunctional.

    Now go cry to your reservation masters. Someone is saying something you don’t like. Maybe your reservation mommy and daddy can protect you from the big bad Robs out there in the world who speak of unpleasant truths.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    “Dirk Gently” said,

    But don’t get me wrong; if you happen upon one of these Conservative assholes in a dark alley feel free to throttle their little necks till their heads pop off. The more you snuff out the merrier.

    We’re now getting death threats.

    Watch the Indians stay silent on this issue. Many of them expect us to apologize for pointing out poverty and pointing out the fact that tax money enables this poverty, but they say nothing about the threats leveled against those who disagree with us.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Melissa,

    No person has the right to tell someone else what to think or feel. Have I ever said anything that would make somthing think otherwise.

    Interesting that you should be telling Rob what to write, how to write it, or what to think about the Res…

  • curtis d

    im not “allowed” to the original story.
    your geeks are at work.can you show me the original story?

  • jd

    “Come on JD! Is that all you have to say! I thought Rob wrote his article to get the people to care! What is your point! Criticize me and leave! See what I mean Rob… JD you are exactly what I was talking about when I said adding fuel to the fire…. ”

    What are you talking about? I asked you to correct your typing. It is like when someone types in all caps and people ask them to correct it. What fire am I adding fuel to? Wow you need to cool off. What a hair trigger on you.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com/ Robert Perry

    Good luck. It seems to me that this, as well as innumerable offenses by our nation’s universities (like the Hamline University student suspended for suggesting carry on campus might work better than unilateral disarmament) suggests that if we’ve ever had a golden–or even silver or bronze–age of discourse, it’s long over.

    And the incredibly interesting thing about this is that Rob wasn’t saying that people on the reservation were to be blamed, but rather the government. Methinks that says something about public education there, and something not entirely polite.

  • Seth Williams

    …oh, and since the Mexicans are only part indiginous, then I guess they should have only partial civil liberties when they come here illegally? Do I have that right Kade?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    StandingRockSon – Our strength increases from your wickedness and WE ARE PROUD.

    Oh good grief.

    Meanwhile, you might want to fix the problems on the reservations. The Indians haven’t been showing strength. Instead, they’re dying as a people and the final nails in the coffin will be pounded in by other Indians.

    But keep on beating your chest. See where it gets you.

  • RaeMarie70

    Well, your whining about the taxes you pay are nauseating as well as you ignorance and ability to behave in civil manner.

    Excuse my mistake. It should have said

    Well, your whining about the taxes you pay are nauseating as well as your ignorance and inability to behave in a civil manner.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Read each of the threads in their entirety.

    each of the threads in their entirety? Now, that’s cruel and unusual punishment!

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    He made it sound as though everyone lives like pigs on the reservation..

    For what seems like the 100th time he never said everyone lives like that.

    I have seen the poor.. I have help the poor on, and off our reservation. … I am aware of our poverty.. I don’t need Rob, nor anyone else to point it out, and to feed to you all..

    Perhaps he didn’t feel that he needed to tell you, but rather people that don’t visit the reservations or even live there how bleak some people live. I guess he painted a vivid image so that we just don’t sit around and say “oh that’s too bad.”

    Rob did not write anything positive about the reservation!

    He never said it was the whole story either. Jeez, we’re talking about a few hundred words in a single post. When asked he admitted that wasn’t the whole story.

    Of course when you’re cars broken down you don’t tell the mechanic what’s working right.

    On the other hand despite many offers only on Indian has taken him up on writing about the reservation here on this blog.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    You separated yourself from “these people” like they were infesting puss…

    No he did not and he never claimed that they were ever like an infesting puss. I don’t see where it helps anything to engage in that kind of talk.

    What he did note that there are people live in crushing poverty. He also blamed the same welfare system for the same including the dysfunctional livestyles that people in poverty (not just indians by any means) live.

    Now maybe you disagree with Rob’s fixes and that’s an appropriate matter to discuss.

    It doesn’t sound like people dispute that some people who live on the reservation live in poverty.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    If you really knew who I was, you wouldn’t be asking me about stolen money.

    Andy’s above suspicion.

    But more seriously did you banish the thieves that stole food out of the mouths of tribal members?

    Or is that ok to do actual harm, you just banish people for political cover for the mismanagement of reservation assets?

  • hikemp

    last I checked, I pay taxes just like everyone else. I don’t know what you’re all talking about when you assume Natives don’t pay taxes. Talk about ignorance. And as for safety, well if you go walk into anyone’s home and insult them, I can imagine some may lose a little self control… and I originally was referring emotionally safety. Until one of you assumed I’m referring to people of the Turtle Mountains as violent people. The people of the Turtle Mountains are wonderful and I would not trade that family for anyone else. I was surprised about the ban myself, I didn’t realize it was a consideration. But again, Mr. Port was challenged in some responses to do something about these poor conditions and spend a little more time getting to know the community before seeing only negative things… and did he do so? No. If he cared so much the article would have had a little more than ranting about negative things he sees. There’s more to the Turtle Mountains than he or many of you care to know about. And trying to use profanity just shows you lost the fight of intelligence.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    RaeMarie70 – your insults are just tired repeats of what you said the last time (at least you’re no longer prying into my sex life; I’ll give you credit there). It all gets old.

    But I did see that you said something brand new this time (kudos for the new thought! That doesn’t happen often.):

    Rob’s article was harassing everyone on the reservation who didn’t fit the life he described. And it makes no difference what his intent was. Harassment is based on the perception of the person being harassed not the one who is harassing.

    I find that viewpoint amazing. Wielded properly, it can be used as a club to beat down the opinions of those you disagree with. Nevermind if it was actually real harassment. Who needs to bother themselves with silly little things like intent and truth? Just claim to be harassed, get out the fainting couch, and act like you’re a victim.

    You seem to think because you pay taxes, it excuses you to be judgemental and condescending to those who don’t follow your conservative view.

    I can’t make judgments about able-bodied people on the dole? Bullshit. I’ll grant that it’s not nice to be condescending, but that’s not going to stop me from being condescending to welfare animals too poor to figure out how to help themselves. They’ve earned my scorn. They’re leeches. I know that upsets you because I’m talking about you and your friends, but too bad. Stop hanging on mine and just about every other American’s wallets. Leech.

    As a member of the Turtle Band of Chippewa, I felt like I was harassed. You, Rob, nor anybody else, has the right to tell me that I wasn’t. It isn’t for you to decide, it is for me.

    You felt harassed by an article!? Wow. You need to grow some thicker skin and stop reading it if it makes you so upset. One wonders why you would spend so much time at a place where you feel you’re being harassed. Are you a glutton for punishment, perhaps?

    The fact still remains that he wrote his opinion and failed to mention anything positive.

    Who cares? How long are you guys going to cry about this point? By all means: keep going. This is all illuminating and you make yourselves look very petty when you cry about these things.

    I’m still wondering why you guys made a big deal about the story. If you would have kept your cool and acted like Rob was a nobody (which many of you keep insisting), then we here at the website would have never even known. The old article would have been buried back in the Dec archives and that would have been it. There wouldn’t have been 8,000 additional sets of eyeballs the other day. There wouldn’t be newspaper articles about it. But what did you guys do? You huffed and puffed and cried like little bitches and now we ALL get to see how dysfunctional you are. You didn’t play that one too smart.

  • Member of Turtle Mtn. Tribe

    Do you see the hate your column has created? I would hope that you could learn from this and maybe on your quest to be banned from all reservations figure out that the saying, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”, is something you should’ve paid a bit more attention to. You mentioned you didn’t say some of the more aggressive comments. Well, people who read your column did. Those comments maybe wouldn’t have been so widely spread had you not written the things you did. I do not agree with violence. I agree with freedom of speech, but when freedom of speech involves violent language, it shouldn’t be free.

  • RaeMarie70

    Rob put himself in the position he did. The people on and from the Turtle Mountains didn’t put themselves into that article. Rob did.

    Thanks for your advice, but I think I will stick with my definition. We didn’t ask for Rob’s opinion. I know the response to that already so you don’t need to go there. I don’t care if Rob felt it was his duty to report the conditions of those living on the reservation. The fact still remains that he wrote his opinion and failed to mention anything positive.

    As a member of the Turtle Band of Chippewa, I felt like I was harassed. You, Rob, nor anybody else, has the right to tell me that I wasn’t. It isn’t for you to decide, it is for me.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Freedom and Self Reliance?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Kade – As far as I can see, white people are illegal immigrants on this continent, and mexicans (who possess Indian blood) are indigenous.

    I was born in America and have lived my entire life here. That makes me a native American.

    This blood/race claim of yours is silly. We’re in this country together. And really, it’s funny to watch young Indians tell older people that they were here first (not that I’m necessarily older, but others around here are).

    I have less problems with Mexican immigration than I do with the flood of illegals who came to the new world after 1492.

    Are you 515 years old? You’ve got beef that goes back hundreds of years! That can’t be healthy.

  • http://blissfulignorance.blogspot.com/ Anh

    So. Congraduation is in order.

    Congraduation.

  • Seth Yantiss

    What a coincidence,

    I held a meeting with my “Tribal Council” last night and we have decided to ban anyone from the Turtle Mountain Reservation from setting foot on my land.

    Take that Andy and Co. You’re banned!!! NEENER NEENER!!

    Oh, and it’s LEGAL too!!!

  • skh.pcola

    likwidshoe, contact Fred Thompson and apply for the VP position. I would easily vote for a ticket with you on it.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Ah, the Jerkoff recognizes himeself! They say that’s the starting point to recovery!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Keep trying to define me: idiot.

    A change of punctuation was all that was required, Andy!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    …stay out of issues beyond your understanding.-Jerkoff Densely

    In your case, Jerkoff, that would be just about everything!

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Numerous comments and on the Dakota Huseby radio show yesterday.

    There have been a lot of posts over the controversy, so maybe he put it into the body of one of the main posts too.

  • RaeMarie70

    It’s all a deflection game and quite a few of them have been playing it.

    Whatever, likqwidshoe! Your stupidity and ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Although it shouldn’t considering I don’t know if you are high from smoking your marijuana. Maybe you wouldn’t need to keep asking people to find where there is racism in quotes or articles if you stayed off the drugs.

    Rob’s article was harassing everyone on the reservation who didn’t fit the life he described. And it makes no difference what his intent was. Harassment is based on the perception of the person being harassed not the one who is harassing.

    In my opinion, Rob is getting exactly what he asked for. He is giving the Turtle Mountains help by keeping him off the reservation so he won’t be able to write any more of his “helpful” observations. So again, Rob, thanks for your help!

  • http://www.yahoo.com/ Wren

    First of all, let me state that I am a member of the turtle mountain band of chippewa. Second let me say that actually I didn’t even read the article and at the time I really didn’t care. But of course I just happen to be on the internet looking things up and I came across this site. Well it’s kind of interesting and sad at the same time that the people of that reservation (I don’t live there anymore) feel it nessesary to ban Rob and cause such an uproar over a few simple words, didn’t anyone ever tell them that actions speak louder? When I did live there I felt that the tribe could not really “fend” for itself and that they should just turn it over to state, of course I was looked at like I was stupid but ohh well.
    As for comments of welfare queens and bastard children, they are there, just like there in every other town,city, or state, it’s something that can’t be helped sometimes, but it’s also the one’s who abuse the government and it’s “hand outs” that I’m sure you commenters are refering to. Not everyone on the reservation is worthy of those titles but at the same time no one there is perfect either. I feel that this whole situation was blown out of proportion and that maybe they banned Rob because he held a truth that they couldn’t face.Listen I know that ALL reservation members complain that the tribal council is corrupt and they all complain that we don’t get anything back from the tribe, so why bitch about someone who noticed it off the reservation, you would think they would be happy

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Whistler, Rob failed to write that it was only some lived like that..

    That seems to be the most recurrent complaint. Of course when asked he said of course not everyone lives that way in a post on this blog.

    I wouldn’t think it was necessary, but when asked he did.

    Whistler, can you find out when Rob will finish and how he plans to write the truth since he is banned from the Turtle Mountain Reservation?

    Of course since he’s offered to let people that live up there to write on his Blog you would think that the people that want the good things covered would do so.

    That’s why I don’t think that you are being sincere about your complaints.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    A humorist eh? Nice, although a bit dry

    Ah, Dirk! Should your attention span falter and you can’t find your way back?

    So long! And thanks for all the fish!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    The government created this exclusion problem now they need to take care of it…Yet our state and federal government are not intervening.

    Marilyn: The beauty of a national forum like this one, is that you can present your case to a wide variety of people across the country.
    The pinheads who complain about commenters from outside North Dakota can’t see that they could be making allies in their fight instead of enemies.

  • carrick

    Melissa, the first step in solving the problem of poverty and joblessness on the rez is to address what is causing these problems.

    We can safely assume it isn’t an inherent quality of the Amerindians on the reservations, so it must have another origin. The most obvious is entitlement spending that promotes a dependence on further entitlements.

    Seems to me we start by ending these ill-thought-out programs.

  • Seth Williams

    Kade: so it’s a case of “I was here first”?

    Then surely you support the right of Jews to have an independent state in Israel, since they were there before there ever was a “Palestine” (or Christianity, or Islam for that matter).

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    as far as your conscience will let you define my statements

    Doublespeak! (Or nonsense…take your pick!)

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    lawbreakers were given the option – jail or Iraq

    I saw that movie! The Dirty Dozen…only it was WWII, not Iraq.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Why the picture of Mark Twain… Your choice in avatar must be accidental or you have a pretty good sense of humor.

    Have you seen anything here that suggests I do anything accidentally?

    Save your breath. Pretend they don’t exist. Nothing you say will cure them of their personality disorders,

    Sorry, Dick! My obligation to respond to trolls extends only to the point that it amuses me to do so! Exhibition of troll-like behaviour is accorded all the respect that it deserves.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Res Girl, you need a Readers’ Blog. It’s free and you can post as often as you want. There is no requirement that you conform to any point of view except your own.

    Right under the comments there’s the place to “register for an Avatar/Reader blog.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Btw, this was a forgotten story until you guys brought it into the mainstream.

    Not to mention that fact that these self appointed spokesmen are making themselves look like idiots at the same time.

    Hopefully people aren’t thinking that EVERYONE on the reservation is as stupid as Andy. Because you know the article didn’t make that clear.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Melissa, people don’t need to read this blog to know about the poverty on the reservations.

  • gullit

    A ring of truth exists in Mr. Port’s observation. The Turtle Mountain Tribal Council has neglected to enforce tribal homeowners/renters to clean up the areas leased by tribal members. The first housing project built in the 1970′s (Turtleville) resembles a slum area and should be torn down and possibly rebuilt with the Turtle Mountain Housing Staff doing periodic walk throughs on the apartments to ensure they are not being destroyed. This is their responsibility to us as tribal members to earn their salaries. Responsibility needs to be taught to our children and rules must be enforced. If it is a true statement, liability is not an issue.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    does that mean we should not necessarily take news being reported as being necessarily true??

    You would be wise to be skeptical of isolated stories on the Internet or from folks with an agenda, just as you should be skeptical of emails you receive telling you you’ve won some lottery you never entered or that a Nigerian prince has left you a lot of money. Caveat emptor.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Do you see the hate your column has created?

    It’s always someone else’s fault, isn’t it?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    I say get over it Mr. Port.

    But we will take your tax money! But get over it. And don’t speak of the horrendous conditions again. But we will take your take money. But get over it. And blah blah blah…

    Go take a look at the mighty Red River, or Turtle Lake… maybe take a stroll through a few neighborhoods in Bismarck, Minot, Grand Forks and Fargo… I assure you will see the same thing there.

    63% unemployment? No kidding. In places like Minot and Fargo? Somebody alert the presses! They don’t know about this.

    And it’s not the color of their skin that’s causing this!

    No! Ya think?

    I don’t see you attempting to do anything good for anyone. Just some 15 minutes of fame for being an insensitive jerk.

    *sniffle*he told the truth and I don’t like it*sniffle* Now get over it! And give me your tax money! And just get over it already! Oh, you’ve got something to say about this injustice? Well,…we’ll show you! You’re banned!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Rob also failed to write that there are not armadillo’s on the Turtle Mountain Reservation.

    Whistler: It was the armadillos, but the peccadilloes they didn’t want pointed out!

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    We have solutions, but no one is asking. These solutions are complex and many of them need to be worked out tribally. To explain these things to anyone in a blog site such as this would be impossible.

    I’d be interested in the solutions.

    To me the most important thing is to get people out of dysfunctional lifestyles.

    What’s been tried in the past (and I’m not just talking about the reservations here) have often made things worse.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Gullit is talking about 200 rapes. Well there’s been 1.5 million soldiers deployed to Iraq, so that’s .0013% of soldiers deployed who have been raped.

    In 2005 – 2005 there were 200,780 rapes in America. That represents .0067% of our population.

    So the rape rate of soldiers deployed to Iraq is roughly 1/3 of the rape rate for our entire country.

    A little less than 1/5, actually…

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    What has caused that anger is the suggested “solution”, an end to the reservation system. Indians are accused in the threads as being

    Andy you’re such a fraud! You change you story with the wind.l

    First your upset because Rob pointed out the problems on the reservation. When you were called on that you were upset that he didn’t talk about the good things on the reservation (as if he was supposed to).

    Now we find out that you’re upset because he thinks the Indians should drop out of the reservation system. Why is that, is it because you’re becoming relatively wealthy in that system when the average indian is living in poverty?

    The fact is you’re a petty demagogue who’s trying to make this an issue to rise up the tribal political world.

    Rez, if you really pay attention to current events, you’d realize changes have been made on a continuous basis for years now, positive changes.

    Positive changes that help certain people while the majority of the reservation lives in poverty. How many generations are going to suffer until the tribe gets some real leadership that will lead them out of poverty instead of perpetuating the poverty.

    Because ultimately Andy, you’re doing this for yourself and hurting the people you claim to want to help.

    And the rest of the comments that you referred to were about specific instances and not generalizations. Of course it’s better if you lie and claim there were directed at all Indians.

    Demagogue.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    jd: You left out one usage of the period, and that is as an ellipsis mark, where you commonly find three to four periods at the end of a sentence, or as a break between two thoughts…
    Ellipsis Marks

  • Seth Yantiss

    Kade,

    I have read the article.

    Great, so where is Rob spewing hate?

  • Pilgrim

    Wow, Rob…

    I hope you intend to frame your copy of the banishment. I would. But then, I’m like that. Four years ago I got a letter of reprimand for calling my Captain a drunk (because he was a drunk but it was still considered insubordination). I have it framed and hung on my I-love-me wall along with commendations and such.

    Unless you’ve left something serious there or are seeking the love of an Indian, er, Native American maiden or something equally dramatic I don’t see where you’ve lost anything.

    I could be wrong, of course. Can I be banned, too? Just asking.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    By the way, Jerkoff, you’re the one who advocates killing those whose arguments you cannot refute. Douche bag!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Found a comment by Andy Laverdure on the blog Censored. Same lies, different venue.
    Turtle Mountain Chippewa excludes insulting author

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Well Melissa you confirmed Rob’s article as accurate.

    Thank you.

    Since he never said it applied to everyone then you really don’t have a point do you?

  • Seth Yantiss

    Turtle Mountain person,

    What hate?

    The “rule” about not saying anything if you have nothing nice to say is DUMB!

    We SHOULD encourage people to make good choices. Silence does nothing to reduce poor choices. People are still free to make poor choices, but others are free to point out your poor choice. Why is that bad?

    If I spend my life savings gambling and end up with no money to eat, wouldn’t it be smart to tell your kids “Look at that guy who made some seriously stupid decisions and now has nothing. Don’t make those choices.”

    Why wouldn’t you do that? Do you hate your children?

  • RaeMarie70

    I can’t make judgments about able-bodied people on the dole? Bullshit. I’ll grant that it’s not nice to be condescending, but that’s not going to stop me from being condescending to welfare animals too poor to figure out how to help themselves. They’ve earned my scorn. They’re leeches. I know that upsets you because I’m talking about you and your friends, but too bad. Stop hanging on mine and just about every other American’s wallets. Leech.

    Really, lik, I think you have sunk to a new low. While I have come to expect your response to be filled with hate and prejudice, this comment has brought you to a new low! Congratulations! With this comment you have shown what a worthless excuse for a human being you are. “Welfare animals”—Nice! You are one of the most disgusting people that I have ever come in contact with.

    You sure think highly of yourself and wallet. Please! The amount you pay in taxes surely couldn’t amount to that much. And like I said previously, move to a country where you don’t have to pay taxes. Otherwise, GET OVER IT! My comments are tiring. Well, your whining about the taxes you pay are nauseating as well as you ignorance and ability to behave in civil manner.

    I may have disagreed with many people on this blog, but I have yet to call someone something as degrating as an animal. I would tell you that you should be ashamed. However, I know that would require ethics and morals which you are lacking.

    What a sad, sad person likwidshoe is!

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    OK, taking you at face value.

    You turned in thieves that were stealing from the tribe hurting every member of the tribe. You are rewarded by being fired. The thieves were not banned.

    Ah I see that your banishment “law” is a crock of that expletive deleted stuff.

  • Dirk Gently

    Have you seen anything here that suggests I do anything accidentally?
    -Goof Proof on May 17, 2007 at 05:42 pm

    A humorist eh? Nice, although a bit dry… Yet very typical for a Conservative.

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Did you say Tribal Counsel?

    Dude, this is Survivor. Rob is just the first to get banned. Let the counsel vote members off the reservation. Rob is out of the running for the $1M.

    I am not a fan of freedom of speech because it provides people like us the opportunity to express our opinions that might be hurtful or mean. They really should have included a clause clarifying that whole freedom of speech thing in the Bill of Rights.

    It is precisely these sort of decisions by the Tribes that represent their backwards thinking. And the leadership of the Tribes that spend their time worrying about Rob Port instead of the drugs, alcohol, unemployment, and education of their Tribe members. The leadership of these tribes are so incompetent that they cannot even follow their own laws by providing the due process they are obligated to. Given this level of incompetence by the leadership of the tribes and their desire to ban Rob without any due process simply for having an opinion they do not like, this provides more of a glimpse into the ultimate causes of their problems than any article ever could.

    Hence why the tribes continue in the same state as they have for generations and why tribe members continue to be denied the prosperity that the rest of the nation enjoys. It is not the white man. It is their own leadership and once again they demonstrate how petty and worthless their leadership really is.

  • http://www.bikebubba.blogspot.com/ Robert Perry

    Actually, “member,” the only hate I’ve seen here is coming from “the reservation,” not directed at it from “outside.”

    And if I were living there, I’d be thinking of leaving, and quickly. If tribal law doesn’t protect our gracious host, neither does it protect those who live there. Think about it.

    Never mind the fact that what Rob is saying is by and large true; that Indians are disproportionately affected by the maladies brought on by the welfare state. I hate to say this, but as long as Turtle Mountain insists on shooting the messenger instead of heeding the message, they’re going to be a backwater.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Third, in the resolution banning me it states that there have been comments on this blog about Indian children being “bastards” and Indian women being “welfare queens.” I’d point out that I never made such comments.

    I made those comments! Well,..I never said that all of the women are welfare whores with bastard children. THEY said that. They’re not too hip on reading comprehension I guess. (You reading this now guys? Get it now? Good.)

    I’m wondering just how in the hell have they confused the name “likwidshoe” with the name “Rob”. The names aren’t even close!

    Where are these “anti-Indian” comments at anyway? I’d like to see what they’re talking about. I’d also like to point out that back in the day, it was the Indians themselves who made “anti-reservation comments”.

    I don’t expect that they’ll apologize and retract their statements that took my words out of context. That would require honesty.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    And your identity is entirely private. In my case I have a specific email just for blogging to help keep my privacy.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Native Americans are fighting for the US Government – why I don’t know

    Are you saying that Native Americans are not citizens of the United States?

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    But don’t get me wrong; if you happen upon one of these Conservative assholes in a dark alley feel free to throttle their little necks till their heads pop off.

    said the vicious leftist asshole, projecting!

  • Seth Yantiss

    I forgot to mention that the only thing I “hate” is the idea that banning Rob could somehow improve the situation for those living on the reservation.

    For the people on the reservation, what bad things could or have happened as a result of Rob’s article, and how would banishment help?

    Since you’re banning Rob because he expressed an opinion, what other opinions or speech would you ban?

    Suppose you disagreed with tribal leaders about something… Would you leave the reservation freely or just wait to be banished?

    I presume that you will be equally harsh to those that supply drugs and alcohol to the reservation?

  • Melissa

    Pilgrim, The only thing tragic about what I wrote is that I have to teach my children to defend themselves from people who will be pointing fingers at them because of where they are from. Because Rob made it sound so much more worse than it actually is.. How are they going to be looked at because he made the whole reservation out to be a pigstie, and more or less a hell hole… That is what came to mind when I read his article.. The color of their hair, eyes, and beautiful olive skin get the attention of a lot of the finger pointers alone already. I feel Rob added salt to injury.. Its not enough for them to be asked by some children if they jumped the boarder… My heart goes out to them…. They are so innocent.. I will say that in every time!!! Rob can not defend himself for the darts he threw at all of us.. It is unfair, unethical as a reporter, and he could have had more empathy for those children he claims to have seen… He did not see or think about the innocent one’s. He had one thing on his mind and one thing only… Bitterness because of what some spend government money on… This is going on throughout the country…. Bismarck too!!! I was born a raised on the reservation, my parents raised us with integrity, honesty, and they made sure we took responsibility for our actions.. Rob needs to finish what he started… Rob says it is not fun anymore.. I don’t see what fun you can get out of ridiculing helpless innocent children… Our future for our children.. His bitterness built up inside of him and all the anger came out in the carefully written article.. I’d have to say it back fired on him and his manipulating ways..

    So to your question Pilgrim.. My question to that would be – if it’s right for her to point out the degree of tragedy in those lives, why is it wrong for someone else from outside the tribe to do so?
    Do so with empathy.. Not the malicious way Rob did.. We are not uncaring pigs as he made us out to be!!
    I am not crucifying Rob! He put his own balls in the sling.. I will defend my people because he knows so little about us… Yet he writes about us based on 15 hours he spent on the reservation.. Someone needs to educate him, and all who have misconception of the Native American people.. If he wants to listen, it is all up to him…

  • hikemp

    I say get over it Mr. Port. What the people of the Turtle Mountains is for the safety of everyone. You claimed you only had well intentions but only hurt EVERYONE from that area. It’s not that we are denying the issues on the reservation but you failed to see any good in anyone until others start jumping on you. Even when you attempted to be positive about others it seemed fake. I laughed at the response in the Herald today. Even now you are just as ignorant as when you wrote in the Deacon Beacon. It doesn’t matter who wrote today’s article, there’s been quite the buzz about your article. And many natives and non natives are insulted with what you wrote. Poverty, drugs, poor education, littering, etc happens everywhere, not just on Reservation lands. Go take a look at the mighty Red River, or Turtle Lake… maybe take a stroll through a few neighborhoods in Bismarck, Minot, Grand Forks and Fargo… I assure you will see the same thing there. And it’s not the color of their skin that’s causing this!

    So again, get over it. Why do you want to go to the Turtle Mountains if it’s so unpleasant to you anyway? I don’t see you attempting to do anything good for anyone. Just some 15 minutes of fame for being an insensitive jerk.

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Do you see the hate your column has created? I would hope that you could learn from this and maybe on your quest to be banned from all reservations figure out that the saying, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.”, is something you should’ve paid a bit more attention to. You mentioned you didn’t say some of the more aggressive comments. Well, people who read your column did. Those comments maybe wouldn’t have been so widely spread had you not written the things you did. I do not agree with violence. I agree with freedom of speech, but when freedom of speech involves violent language, it shouldn’t be free.

    Rob, you encouraged hate and violent language by writing a column about the sad state of affairs on the reservation. I assumed that you were trying to bring light on a major problem in this country where some citizens are being left behind to live in poverty and unemployment while the rest of us continue to enjoy more and more opportunities. But I was wrong. You sought to slander these poor folks, create more hatred from your bigotted readers, and promote violence. Ah, the idea of using the Internet to promote discussion. I don’t believe I understand the term “violent language”. I imagine that the tribes’ problems would miraculously go away if we all stopped using “violent language”. Folks would have jobs. Poverty would be eliminated. Drug and alcohol abuse would end.

    It is the whites that are responsible for the problems on the reservation because banks don’t loan Indians money, whites don’t locate businesses and jobs on the rez, whites don’t take good enough care of the Indians, and white settlers took Indian lands. I have yet to hear a single Indian from Turtle Mountain take responsibility for their own roles in creating the environment on the Rez. It is always either “Turtle Mountain is beautiful, offers a great life for us, and the standard of living is great because of the outdoors” or it is “It is all the fault of whitey”. And they take it one step further now and blame Rob and this site for making things worse. Well, I guess Rob is white so he deserves it.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Do you mean those people that live in poverty?

    Really since Rob’s clarified the meaning a number of times AND the fact that the truth is not everyone does live in poverty you don’t have a point, do you.

  • StandingRockSon

    You are so smug in your revelation because you think you know something new. You kick at the little dignity my people retain. But woo hoo, you are headlines now and you’ve got your little blog clique to support this ingenious plan to simply discard reservations and reform the heathen. An obvious right because it is YOUR tax money. Christ, why didn’t someone think of that before?

    Imagine that somebody visited a grandmother and subsequently wrote about the nicotine, bingo daubed, cess pool of a home. Should the children come out and say “I never knew” or are they more likely to say “Go to hell for invading my family matters.”

    A ban from the tribal lands has not affected your right to freedom of speech. So stop that crock and understand humility and discretion.

    If the headlines were truely for the quality of your plan, then take some credit. However you take potshots at a community who made a decision that you are not welcome. A community with the obvious right. A community that existed long before your 15 hour visit and will continue long after the news of your run-in with the tribal council.

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    I say get over it Mr. Port. What the people of the Turtle Mountains is for the safety of everyone.

    Ah, so basically what you believe is that Indians on the Reservation are a bunch of violent fucks and Rob would be in danger if he went there. And on the flip side, you believe that somehow this is for “everyone’s” safety? No, if this is for safety it is because the shitbags on the rez that are all pissed off at Rob are too fucking ignorant to seperate political debate from violence. Keep the violent pieces of shit away from Rob off the Rez too if it is for his safety. How can he be safe anywhere when your tribal leaders encourage a Fatwa on his ass like Salmon Rushdie?

    Or were you implying that Rob needs to be kept away from Indians because he might get violent? Your words not ours asshole. You know how the members of the tribe are and I am sure that they would resort to violence because they don’t like what Rob said. You are probably right.

  • StandingRockSon

    Immigrants and detainees are new found words long after Indian. Indigenous and Native are proper terminology. You want to compare my ancestors plight to foreigners?

    Your lore about paul bunyan and scalping are sickening. You made a history when you had none and you continue to ignore the true history so that you can say, we, Native Americans are only complaining about a century old suppression. Moneys from gambling are not moneys from Indians. Seminole attempts to purchase Hard Rock have been challenged because it shows recovery by Native people.

    Our strength increases from your wickedness and WE ARE PROUD.

  • Kade

    Now you drag the jews into this???

  • StandingRockSon

    the prior declaration was that a native american stating “i am a tax payer” was value-less because nobody said explicitly s/he did not pay taxes. I never stated any of you were racist. therefore, it follows you are jumping at worthless discussonary bits.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Watch it Justin B.! Many of these people have shown us that they aren’t intelligent enough to pick out the kind of dripping sarcasm you write in your comments. Even worse, they are prone to attributing what you say to Rob.

    You have to be careful around these guys and spell things out for them.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Kade – I think you have received your first taste of what it feels like to be powerless.

    Powerless? They kicked him out of a dump filled with people who are dangerous. Really – it’s just about principle at this point. The reservation doesn’t offer much else.

    You have enjoyed white privilege for so long that you can now do nothing but gnash your teeth in impotence.

    In reality, Rob and most of the rest of us are going to continue to live our lives and be mildly amused at this passing story. Meanwhile, the impoverished Indians will remain segregated and suffering under their problems.

    You have no power except to spread hate…

    “Hate” does not equal viewpoints you disagree with. Grow up.

    …thus he has no rights on the reservation or in tribal court/tribal council.

    But they will accept his money. In fact, they’ll cry for more. Because they’re like that.

  • http://www.kenmccracken.blogspot.com/ Ken McCracken

    I find it hilarious that none of Rob’s critics have yet to dispute the actual facts that Rob alleged about reservation conditions.

    Rob told the truth – and he must be banned for that!

    The phoney baloney process used to ban him just goes to prove that reason, the rule of law, free speech and due process mean absolutely nothing on North Dakota reservations.

  • Seth Yantiss

    By the looks of this page, ignorance reigns.

    Can you tell us how? I, honestly, am interested in knowing how Rob’s article created hatred. I am interested in knowing what part of any of this is “ignorant”.

    I’ve been verbally assaulted for wanting to hear some good from people. Nice.

    Where?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Yesterday: Indians came out against the reservation system because they recognized that it was a system designed to marginalize them.

    Today: Indians defend the same systems and ban anyone who points out that reservations marginalize them.

    We can’t win, can we? We’re either blamed for the actions of long dead people, or we’re blamed for “not caring”.

    Oh, but I guess that people are “mad” and that gives them all the legitimacy they need to throw out logic and reason and to continue on by attacking the messenger. Because people who are mad are justified for everything they feel, even if it makes no logical sense.

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Ken,

    One step further–Rob’s free speech rights and right to enter the Rez has been taken away because the Tribe believes that his safety would be in danger. Because of their violent tribe members, Rob loses his rights.

    And one wonders why these reservations are so ass backwards. In another thread, a reader commented that the problem with unemployment is that white bankers don’t want to lend money to Indians on the rez.

    The rez has no rule of law. People can be ejected. Violence or property damage goes unpunished. Corruption among officials is rampant. Until the rule of law is imposed justly, the corruption of the tribal leadership is eliminated, and the Indian society takes accountability for their part in the cycle of poverty, drug abuse, and unemployment, there will be no investment and no real changes. All this ruling did is reinforce that whites should want no part of investing or travelling on the reservations. If not for casinos, I am pretty sure most whites wouldn’t anyway.

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Why not give him a hearing on this as your laws require? Allow Rob to come to the Rez and present evidence at a hearing?

    It seems that one resident of the rez said:

    I do not agree with violence. I agree with freedom of speech, but when freedom of speech involves violent language, it shouldn’t be free.

    You imply that this is for Rob’s safety that he not be allowed on the Rez. Seems that the only violence this has incited is by tribal members that want to perpetrate harm on Rob.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    RaeMarie70 – Really, lik, I think you have sunk to a new low.

    Able-bodied and healthy young people on welfare are straight up animals. Don’t blame me for that reality.

    You sure think highly of yourself and wallet. Please! The amount you pay in taxes surely couldn’t amount to that much.

    Are you making my point or yours? If I don’t pay that much in taxes, that means that I don’t have much money. The animals (would you prefer clowns?) are taking money from a guy who doesn’t have much! It has nothing to do with thinking highly of anything. I don’t know what you’re talking about there. It has to do with thinking lowly of the animals who would deprive me of my much needed paycheck (since you assert that I “don’t pay that much”).

    And like I said previously, move to a country where you don’t have to pay taxes. Otherwise, GET OVER IT!

    No. This is my country and I have a say. I’m a voter who pays attention to politics and you’re taking some of my money. You’ve bought my opinion. Either live with that or change it. Or you can leave. You don’t have to stay here and listen to me. The Internet is a big wide open place with a lot of viewpoints. Fly away and find something.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    StandingRockSon – surely i agree. insomuch i baited the statement so that i might bring back the statement about Natives being taxpayers too.

    So you’re just being dishonest.

    That explains a lot.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    StandingRockSon – the prior declaration was that a native american stating “i am a tax payer” was value-less because nobody said explicitly s/he did not pay taxes.

    This is jibberish.

    I never stated any of you were racist. therefore, it follows you are jumping at worthless discussonary bits.

    Then why would you bring it up?

    likwidshoe is simply someone not of this discussion, as such i have tried to keep my attention on the rest of you.

    I’m of this discussion. If you chose to ignore me, then by all means, do so. But don’t lie about the situation.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    You said what you said, lik. No matter how you try to explain it, you were wrong.

    No I wasn’t. You’re just saying this and you don’t know why. If you did, you would explain.

    Believe me, I would never agree with you.

    Really? You don’t think that there is anything we agree on? I would never say such a thing. Of course we would agree on some things.

    Because your clouded mind won’t allow you to process, I will explain. You have a voice as I do. I vote just as you vote. But for some reason, you seem to think that you have more of a right to tell people how to live and what standards they should live by.

    Yes, I understand what you’re saying there. And I’ve answered to it before, so I don’t see why you’re getting all half-cocked.

    Here’s my response (for the fifth or sixth time; pay attention this time):

    Two simple sentences: I’m not telling anybody how to live. I call for personal responsibility and the right to be left alone.

    Is that clear enough? Or do I need to break it down a different way? Just let me know. I don’t want to get another one of your facetious insults again. Please tell me that you understood those two simple sentences this time.

    If that is the case, then you have to live by other people’s standards? Do you want to live by mine? If not, then why do I or anybody else, for that matter, need to live by yours?

    It’s not the case, so this right here doesn’t apply. Remember: those two simple sentences.

    And again, I haven’t taken a dime of your taxes. Why do keep saying that I have? Oh yeah…the pot.

    No, you idiot. I’ve never said that you’ve personally taken anything. I’m talking about the reservations and you’re representing the reservations, remember? You don’t talk to me about this issue in the personal context, it’s always “your people”. Well guess what? That’s how I’m responding. We’ve already been over this one too and you keep on misunderstanding while throwing your insults in. Try to keep up.

    And because you asked, I would prefer that you wouldn’t use any derogatory labels to describe people.

    I’m only after the welfare creeps. If that isn’t you, then mind your own business. Stop talking as if you represent “your people”, then get all personal on me when I respond.

  • Seth Williams

    I’m too easily distracted by shiny things to read legalese, why not sum it up for me?

    By the way, why not answer the question: do you support the notion that Rob should have no rights on the reservation?

  • Dirk Gently

    In your case, Jerkoff, that would be just about everything!
    -Goof on May 17, 2007 at 04:24 pm Failed attempt to fend off attacks, life goes on unhindered

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Melissa – OMG!!! You make every member of the Turtle Mountain Tribe out to be uncaring pigs…

    Even after he has repeatedly stated (not that it wasn’t already obvious) that not everybody lives in the squalor described.

    I wish some of you could read.

  • RaeMarie70

    Are you making my point or yours? If I don’t pay that much in taxes, that means that I don’t have much money. The animals (would you prefer clowns?) are taking money from a guy who doesn’t have much! It has nothing to do with thinking highly of anything. I don’t know what you’re talking about there. It has to do with thinking lowly of the animals who would deprive me of my much needed paycheck (since you assert that I “don’t pay that much”).

    You said what you said, lik. No matter how you try to explain it, you were wrong.

    Believe me, I would never agree with you. So there is no way I am making your point. Because your clouded mind won’t allow you to process, I will explain. You have a voice as I do. I vote just as you vote. But for some reason, you seem to think that you have more of a right to tell people how to live and what standards they should live by. If that is the case, then you have to live by other people’s standards? Do you want to live by mine? If not, then why do I or anybody else, for that matter, need to live by yours?

    And again, I haven’t taken a dime of your taxes. Why do keep saying that I have? Oh yeah…the pot.

    And because you asked, I would prefer that you wouldn’t use any derogatory labels to describe people.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Impotence is bliss.

    Kade on May 16, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    Did you intend to say that?

  • Just_Me

    Rob never ever claimed that all people on all reservations lived this way. He never said it. People just jumped to that conclusion. He specifically stated that what he saw is what he saw on during those particular 15 hours on that particular reservation. Go back and read it. I think this may also be a sad commentary on the public school system and some peoples’ reading comprehension.

  • 2Hotel9

    Justin, you hate-filled Whitey McWhitealot you! Next your going to try and tell us that people should take responsibility for their own lives. That is just hurtful! Don’t you know that,,,,,CRAP. Started laughing, can’t finish it.

    Rae, you do not get to decide what “harass” means. The dictionary explains what it means, and in the legal venue a judge delineates what comprises harassment. Not you and your socialist/welfare state chuckleheads.

    The 60% + unemployment and high recidivism rate for crime and welfare are clearly major problems. Doing the exact same things you have for the last 45-50 years is not going to fix those problems. Screaming and crying about people pointing out those problems ain’t gonna help either.

    Rob, you know my tactical doctrine for this situation, shine a big assed spotlight on them and bring as much public notice to it as humanly possible. Smack them with the truth of their problems long and hard. The louder they screech the better job you are doing.

    And in closing, Rae, SRS, andy l, segregation is illegal in the United States. Period. It is against the law. Federal Marshals need to round up all the individuals who are perpetrating this Federal Crime and prosecute their ass to the fullest extent of the law. Again, for clarity, desegregation is the law of the land, and it is well past time to enforce it in your case.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    RaeMarie70 and others – harassment is when someone chases YOU. It’s not when you go chasing someone else.

  • RaeMarie70

    You’re just saying this and you don’t know why. If you did, you would explain.

    I thought this was pretty obvious. But, again, the cloudy mind issue… Calling people animals is wrong. I don’t know any person who would take that as a compliment. And as for clown, again, the same. The people would like agree to this are those people who are actually clowns.

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Dude, did this comment thread fill up with the same asshats commenting about us all being racists and not knowing the good that Indians do and the good of their societies and Rob needs to blah blah blah. WE FUCKING GET IT. Enough. You all say the same tired shit and call rob and the rest of us white folk racists and blame us for every single ill of the world post-1492. Enough already.

    Not one of you assholes from the Rez can compare your plight to the folks in Darfur right now. That is racism. Beheadings for Allah. That is racism. Rob writes a nasty little mean article that hurts your children’s feelings about the fact that your individual corner of society is so far outside of the norms of the rest of our country and that is suddenly racist and “violent language”. Say something new or original that adds to the conversation. Personal insults of Lik, me, Rob, and others is a tired old song. It is the same folks that are throwing these accusations. But I guess when 63% of the population is unemployed, lots of folks have lots of time to flood this blog with bullshit comments attacking Rob. I am betting that only 37% of the folks commenting on here from the Rez actually have jobs. That means roughly one in three of you are productive members of society that even merit us dignifying your poor me bullshit with a response.

    So let’s cut to the chase–shut up about it already. Let this die. Go on about your business. Surely you can find more productive things to do like working or helping your poor undeducated neighbor rather than sitting on the Interwebamathingy and continuing this debate back and forth. I mean even looking at porn is more constructive than your comments here about how we are all racist. I really don’t give a shit anymore if 63% of you don’t have jobs, there is a huge alcoholism problem, drug problem, poverty problem, etc. Every time I see a drunk Indian trying to hitchike when I drive across the Navajo Rez, I will think, “Man, at least he gets to live in this beautiful country and spend time in the outdoors. Maybe it is him that has the higher standard of living.” Enjoy your living. If you are fine with it, I won’t watch your drunks and parents dying of diabetes and worry about it either. We will just keep our white noses out of your business. But I sure as hell won’t spend a dime on your lands and I will encourage everyone I know from going to your casinos.

  • Kade

    As far as I can see, white people are illegal immigrants on this continent, and mexicans (who possess Indian blood) are indigenous. I have less problems with Mexican immigration than I do with the flood of illegals who came to the new world after 1492.

  • StandingRockSon

    surely i agree. insomuch i baited the statement so that i might bring back the statement about Natives being taxpayers too. Don’t fooly pry at imagineless topics but give me something meaningful to discuss. I twice posted prior statements with matter undiscussed. but it is the meaningless foibles that get response.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Rae,

    And it makes no difference what his intent was. Harassment is based on the perception of the person being harassed not the one who is harassing.

    Lady, you need some help. Intent is EVERYTHING!!! Your “perception” does not make fact. The intent of the author is the determining factor in harassment. Sorry. Go ask your tribal elders… they’ll tell you the same thing (if they are wise).

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Andrew and Seth– West Phoenix. And thanks for the kind words.

    While watching TV or reading the newspapers (Parade), I was shocked to learn that Johnny Depp, Boyance’s mother, Bill Clinton claim Native American Heritage. None of these people have presented themselves as role models to young Native American children. Why?? Any answers???

    I have Native American blood too. Role models aren’t some abstract concept or some celebrity or some famous person that does an occasional Public Service Announcement saying “The More You Know”. The real question you need to ask is the same one that the black community needs to ask and that the Hispanic community needs to ask–why is it that our best and most successful folks flee from the areas where the rest of us that really need the role models and help live? Within the black and Hispanic communities, the best and brightest tend to move away from Urban areas into the suburbs because they recognize that in order for their children to have better opportunities, they have to leave the crime and poverty of their respective ghettos, projects, or neighborhoods. This leads to a further deterioration of the neighborhoods because not only does the neighborhood lose a good role model, there is always someone else who is a bad one ready to backfill that home. If I am a successful businessman or career person and I am a Native American, I am proud of my heritage, but I want my children protected from the poverty, drugs and alcohol, and crime.

    The Reservations don’t need abstract role models that claim some small amount of Native American blood. They need actual people that they actually know that are successful and these successful folks need to take enough interest in the state of affairs of their peers to actually change it. But that is not the case. The folks that leave the Rez and make a life for themselves that offer the most benefit as role models too often don’t come back. The folks that do come back to the Rez are far too often those that have failed to make a life for themselves and they are the role models that encourage more dependence on government and on alcohol and drugs.

    I don’t have an answer on role models. If these folks that you mention who have native blood are “role models” perhaps the role models are saying, get off your ass and off the rez and off the couch and stop using your heritage as a crutch. Make something out of your life. No one gave Johnny Depp or Bill Clinton anything in life. (well except a blowjob) They earned theirs and that is what role models should be teaching. When 63% of the folks on the Rez are unemployed, why would the most successful and most talented come back to raise their kids with all the problems that the Reservations have?

  • RaeMarie70

    harassment is when someone chases YOU.

    I would say the opinion written in the Dakota Beacon fits the bill.

  • RaeMarie70

    And a side point, Seth…
    I don’t believe that my defending my home is a bias. That comes from having a family who was supportive and instilled in us the value of speaking up for something you believe in. This topic is something I feel passionately about and will not stop defending it. Just as it seems that those who disagree with me won’t stop defending their point.

  • andy l

    Rob, you are wrong about the banishment issue. Our tribe has banished from the beginning of time. This is an inherent right that we have. Banishment is written into our 1959 Tribal Constitution and is in effect today as written. The exclusionary code was developed a couple of years ago to deal with the meth crisis we have on our reservation, and to extend some sort of due process to individuals affected by that particular ordinance. You are banished. You will recieve notice, I have no control over that. That’s tribal business, not mine.

    The issue about free speech is an issue that you’ve created. No on is telling you to stop saying what you are saying. Our tribal laws and our personal and traditional ethics and protocol would never restrict free speech. That’s not what is at issue. What is at issue is jurisdiction. Here’s a few questions for you Rob…Does the tribe have jurisdiction over what you have said? Can we take you to court anywhere for libel? If we can, how would we enforce? Slander? Does the state have jurisdiction? The tribe? Why not?

    The answer is simple. You are not a tribal member. Our only recourse is banishment. The internet is a powerful tool. It has reached into our community and has caused terror for many of our tribal members. I don’t think you realize that. I don’t think you care. But then, again, who am I to criticize? This is your blog. You certainly have your attack dogs. And, again, I’m just an Indian.

  • Dirk Gently

    Justin B.,
    Your Conservative asshole buddies are not as squeaky clean as you’d like them to be, albeit I used much less tact when expressing hatred than they have. I don’t like to disguise my feelings.

    On the same note; you don’t have to worry about me. I’m very far away, I can guarantee you that (although I cannot prove it *shrug*).

  • Melissa A..

    Rob, No you didn’t create the conditions. You separated yourself from “these people” like they were infesting puss… Can you not see what you have started… Honestly Rob… I am sicken by this… I am tired of defending because of who we are and where we are from… Your article fed the bigots fuel.. Look what they are writing.. Both sides… You got it all wrong… Admit it… It was harsh and unfair to many of us…

  • andy l

    I know it bothers many Indians to hear whites criticize the reservation system, but we are impacted by it too. And some of actually want to see these stereotypes and the poverty and despair disappear, not simply be ignored. So many of the folks here would prefer that we simply ignore it and keep our nose out of Indian business.
    Justin B. on May 17, 2007 at 12:27 pm

    Justin, you and I could certainly have a great conversation. I agree with most of what you say. And, you are right when you talk about the problems we have and how we struggle. But, Rob Port’s comments are not defensible. I firmly believe he has an undelying and evil agenda and that the ultimate goal is the destruction of our people.

    We’ve been through enough. Maybe this is the final and last great stand we need to take, to protect what little we have from total destruction.

    When I talk about what we have as Indians, I am talking about spirituality, ceremony, a lifestyle that many do not see and may never see. I am as disgusted or maybe moreso than anyone of our crisis. But, Rob Port’s suggested “solution” is not a solution at all, it is complete and utter destruction of our way of life, what little vestiges we have left. His action, writing the article and then defending it with his cohorts at this blog is unbelievable. I’m at a loss for words, and tired of fighting with the idiots in this blog who have nothing better to do than sit in their far away ivory towers and pass judgement.

    Enough said.

  • Melissa A..

    Come on JD! Is that all you have to say! I thought Rob wrote his article to get the people to care! What is your point! Criticize me and leave! See what I mean Rob… JD you are exactly what I was talking about when I said adding fuel to the fire….

  • Just_Me

    Andy L.

    I have just finished a rather in depth investigation into the legal definitions of slander and libel.

    You, falsely accusing Rob of wanting “Termination”, is asserting that he favors genocide.

    Falsely disseminating with the intent to defame is actionable.

    That fits very well into the legal definition and grounds for successful litigation against you.

    It would likely be fruitless though as I hear that you do not have a job.

    Who supports you so that you can blog day and night?

    I hope it is not the taxpayers of ND or the U.S., or are you supported by your sovereign nation?

  • andy l

    I didn’t make accusations, I made descriptions. And my descriptions were entirely accurate, and you know it Andy.
    Look at the resolution supposedly banning me. It said I was banished for my own protection. That speaks volumes about the status quo on the reservation. If you want to shut your eyes to it go right ahead, but everybody knows what I’m talking about.
    And “termination” is the wrong choice of words. I support encouraging Indians to leave the reservation and/or an end to the reservation system itself. If you disagree, ask yourself this: Who was the reservation system created to benefit? The Indians?
    Hardly.
    Rob on May 17, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    Rob, you keep deflecting. Why is this all about you all of a sudden? You represent yourself as a victim. The issue is about termination, and you know it. The reservation system, as you call it, may not be perfect from your point of view, but that’s exactly where the problem lies, it’s your point of view. The Turtle Mountain reservation is all our people got out of the deal that is called the 10 cent treaty, hammered out at gunpoint. Our people starved to death under gunpoint. Our people died. And, I’m not talking about distant ancestors, either. But, I could go on and on, you still wouldn’t see my point or any other Indian persons point that enters this blog site of yours.

    You’ve got your 15 minutes of fame, use it well.

  • Seth Williams

    StandingRockSon: seems like a rather loose interpretation of racism: “if you don’t support my view, you’re racist”

    Do I have that right?

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Don’t even bother. They are some of the best examples of the worst of humanity. They’re arrogant, vain, stubborn, greedy, puerile, intentionally offensive, shallow, ill-informed, assholes.

    Save your breath. Pretend they don’t exist. Nothing you say will cure them of their personality disorders, especially when discussing issues set, by them, on an online chat forum. You’re only feeding the fire.

    But don’t get me wrong; if you happen upon one of these Conservative assholes in a dark alley feel free to throttle their little necks till their heads pop off. The more you snuff out the merrier.

    I gotta say that this transcends civil discussion and while it is never a practice that I advocate, I believe that threats of physical violence transcend civil debate that this guy just crossed the line. No one here has advocated violence and this is an example of what a previous commenter said:

    What the people of the Turtle Mountains is for the safety of everyone.

    Another commenter made this point:

    Do you see the hate your column has created?… You mentioned you didn’t say some of the more aggressive comments. Well, people who read your column did… I do not agree with violence. I agree with freedom of speech, but when freedom of speech involves violent language, it shouldn’t be free.

    I would strongly caution the tribe members that are on here that this person who is allegedly representing your tribe has in effect threatened all of us whether directly or indirectly. I wonder how long it will take for his tribe members to denounce this degredation of the topic into a bulletin board of threats from tribe members towards folks expressing their opinions in an appropriate online forum. But since we don’t have the right to ban Dirk here from the land off the reservation for everyone’s safety (after he made an actual physical threat), there ain’t much we can do. Too bad we aren’t a reservation and don’t have a process that we can not follow to ban his ass.

  • Andrew

    Andrew – forgot to add – yes I do work. I do feel you owe me an apology for assuming or sterotyping people.

    I respectfully apologize to you, Gullit. What I said was hurtful and very inappropriate. It did nothing to add to the discussion or debate.

    By the way, I didn’t really think you were unemployed. Its apparent that you are educated to some degree and likely have a decent career. My “2/3″ comment was based on figures reporting that around 60% of those on the reservation are unemployed. I made the comment because it seemed as if you were acting rather ‘snarky’ toward another commentor for not immediately responding to your query, even though he most likely had other, more important obligations.

    Again, I apologize to you sir and hope any future discussions between us can be civil. Please do not judge the rest of the SayAnything community by my comments, as I speak only for myself. I would also note, for the record, that Rob has never made, or endorsed, any offensive comments made toward your community.

  • gullit

    Andrew – Do some background study on AFDC receipients nationwide – I believe you will be surprised….

  • Dirk Gently

    Goof,
    Nice of you to skirt past my other question.

    BTW: Why the picture of Mark Twain Goof? Is it supposed to signify some kind of irony? Mark Twain was a ‘leftie’. Your choice in avatar must be accidental or you have a pretty good sense of humor.
    -Dirk Gently on May 17, 2007 at 04:47 pm

    Are you going to prove me wrong or are you going to try your hand with Conservative ‘projecting’? It will be a challenge for a guy like you who’s main tactic is to omit… Good luck.

  • Melissa A..

    Melissa,

    No person has the right to tell someone else what to think or feel. Have I ever said anything that would make somthing think otherwise.

    Interesting that you should be telling Rob what to write, how to write it, or what to think about the Res…

    Seth Yantiss on May 17, 2007 at 05:08 pm

    Seth, You are pointing at the wrong person… I did not write that….

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    BTW, Jerkoff, your liberal buddies call that hate speech!

  • Dirk Gently

    See, we don’t ban speech around here, no matter how much it offends us or hurts our feelings. We can take it.
    -Justin B. on May 17, 2007 at 05:00 pm

    Rofl! You really have no clue do you? You bloat your self opinion as though you were royalty, but the Emperor has no clothes. Ever talk to likwidshoe? Ever ask him how many people he has banned? One hand doesn’t know what the other is doing. Typical Conservative behavior.

  • Dirk Gently

    Following your logic, we citizens wouldn’t be able to comment on anything. Because women don’t need us to have an opinion on abortion. And the poor don’t need us to have an opinion on the economy.
    -Rob on May 17, 2007 at 03:50 pm

    …stay out of issues beyond your understanding.
    -Dirk Gently on May 17, 2007 at 03:43 pm

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Rob, No you didn’t create the conditions. You separated yourself from “these people” like they were infesting puss… Can you not see what you have started…

    Geez, poverty and drug abuse happens to be infecting puss. And it is the very fact that you are not infected by it that allows you to make articulate comments.

    I don’t ask you to condemn people, especially our brothers. We are all human beings first. Tribal members, races, religions, cultures, etc., second. What you and the other folks that have been coming on here don’t do is condemn the behavior of these tribe members (and no one disputes that Rob is making this shit that he saw up).

    These people that live in these conditions next to the good and hardworking folks that are their neighbors and tribe members ARE INFECTING PUSS. And one cannot live on the Rez without being exposed to far too much of this behavior and it has a dramitically negative impact on the future generations that see this sort of failure and contempt day to day.

    I lived near the Crow Reservation and played football against Hardin when I lived in Billings. Reservations are scary places. There are good people there, no doubt. But there are far too many people that while they may be tribe members, they barely qualify as human. They spend their lives hurting themselves, their children, and others with their violent crime, drug abuse, and filth. They give all Native Americans a bad name and a bad reputation.

    That is the thing about stereotypes and what you call “racism”. Stereotypes are meaningless without a ring of truth. You refuse to attack the people that truly are perpetuating the “stereotypes” and “racism”. It is not folks like us, it is folks like you and others that fail to recognize that if you want to destroy the stereotypes, you have to uplift your people. It is my belief that this requires a radical transformation in not only the leadership of the Tribes (and that means almost all tribes) but also a transformation in the behaviors and attitudes of the tribe members. Instead of taking Rob’s desire to change the conditions (and in his mind the thesis is to abolish the Reservation System), you instead choose to ignore the REAL PROBLEMS on the Rez, and attack Rob as a bigot.

    It is much easier to attack all of us as bigots than take a good hard look at the tribe members that Rob described and face the facts that these folks are the reason that you feel discriminated against, put down, and stereotyped. Instead you attack Rob for telling the truth about these very folks and would rather defend them than condemn their actions.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Amazing, Rob stated that it doesn’t apply to all nearly a month ago. And while the big idiot Andrew Laverdure and his merry band of fools keep on saying “you just don’t get it”, they miss the fact that these things were clarified almost a month ago. And then clarified again ad nauseum.

    So why do they bring it up? Good question. My guess is that the only way for them to keep going is to ignore the responses. If they acknowledge the responses, the game is over fairly quickly because the complaints are relatively few.

    It looks like one big dishonest game that many of these Indians are engaging in.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    gullit – Likwidshoe: What are the daily numbers estimated for Iraq?

    Take your pick. I rounded up to 200 million, because that is close to what the Democrats were claiming during the presidential debates of 2004.

    Did you research the AFDC receipients nationwide?

    I don’t see how this is germane. What’s the point you’re trying to make?

    Per newsreports, American female soldiers were being raped, etc., by American male soldiers – which the news reported – lawbreakers were given the option – jail or Iraq….

    I call BS. Rape earns a ticket to jail, not war. I’d like to see those news reports.

  • gullit

    Justin B – Thanks for you remarks. Does the 10% include the illegal immigrants from Mexico? The conditions you describe for Mexico sounds similiar to conditions on tribal reservations and in Iraq. In all faireness, the Bush Administration has/is being accused of corruption, fraud, etc., “makes you wonder” doesn’t it.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Do so with empathy.. Not the malicious way Rob did.. We are not uncaring pigs as he made us out to be!!

    Melissa, Rob didn’t do what you suggested. When I read the article, I thought that “SOME” Indians have made poor choices.

    You are free to take the article in any way you want, but don’t project your feelings onto me. I have never considered Indians to be inferior and still don’t.

    Projecting your ideas about what others feel is a terrible way to live your life. It hurts your spirit to fantasize about how others feel about you.

    If there are “racists” in your life, ignore them and teach your children to do the same. Racism is taught and your attitudes might teach your children to be racist toward others. Be careful with your use of the term.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Some One That Cares said,

    God is the only person to judge the way we live or the way we are.

    Wrong. We can and should judge the way others live. Judgment is not bad. We make decisions about what TV shows we allow our kids to watch. We judge what food we are willing to eat. We judge the performance of athletes… Why is it any different to judge how a person lives and decide if we want to be a part of it or not?

    If you’re Christian; God is the only one who can exact a penance for the way we live. Christ never told us not to judge others… he told us not to “convict” them.

  • gullit

    Seth – basic marketing strategy location-location-location…

  • andy l

    But Andy L, enraged by hate is going to go around the internet and post bad things about me… when I have had NOTHING bad to say about him… or the rest of your tribe.
    Maybe you all will grow up…
    It’s not civilized to ban a man for stating his observations, especially if it’s true.
    Seth Yantiss on May 18, 2007 at 02:35 pm

    Read back in the threads Seth. You’ve said deplorable things, defending Rob. Go out and have some fun with your family. You deserve it, after being so kind and gracious to us Indians.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Melissa, Nope, I was talking to Andy L… Who decided to drag my name into another conversation on another blog.

    http://www.thedeets.com/2006/03/09/people-who-have-abortions-are-losers-just-as-a-seth-yantiss/

  • Melissa A..

    Discuss it all you want… That is why I am here… Ask away.. I will help you in anyway I can..

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Well the people who are living well don’t need their lives improved do they?

    If not why talk about them.

    When Turtle Mountain members started commenting here Rob invited those who wanted to talk about the reservation to get a readers’ blog.

    Only a person that identifies himself as Creasy took him up on it. He’s had a couple interesting posts.

    I imagine that the invitation is still open if you want to sign up for one.

    My point is that it’s really hard to take the complaints that Rob didn’t cover the good of the reservation when the people doing the complaining don’t want to do it themselves.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Melissa,

    I don’t know how to fix everyone’s problems. We can talk until we are blue in the face to adults who we think are at fault.

    A friend of my wife’s pulled an adult, working at a restaurant, aside and provided advice. That’s all we can do.

    I think if we show a good example for them to follow… Action speaks louder than words. I have seen changes just by doing that.

    Sure, but some words are needed.

    I am new to this blog thing.. I don’t know if it is a good idea for me to open one up just yet because there is so much anger and hurt by this article that some may write with angry thoughts.. You know what would happen next don’t you?

    Yup, someone like Andy L will spash your name and location all over the place and label you a racist.

    People have had to muster the courage to make changes, Melissa. Throughout history, those that had the courage to do the right thing have had to face the wrath of dissenters. This is no different. But if you feel that you are right, then your ideals will stand up to the attack.

    People like likwidshoe would make accusations and twist and turn their words around.. Some won’t need any twisting to make their point loud and clear and I don’t want that to happen either.

    No one ever made a difference by not trying. Fear holds everyone back. I don’t fear what Andy L is doing to me right now… Lik is not a bad guy, honestly. He will challenge your assumptions, but is that bad?

    I was hurt for the innocent children who will be looked upon as “these people”. It is the reputation we have.

    I don’t have the “perception” that you’re attibuting to others. I don’t know many people who have the “perception” you describe. I’m sure there are some people out there that are ignorant of your culture. I am ignorant of many things. But without a voice telling people how it is… how will we be educated?

    I guess I am tired of all the misconceptions and to have to prove once again that we are civilized people.

    Taking offense from someone’s misconceptions is a personal issue. Be bigger than that and just try to inform. You will find people who don’t want to listen, but MANY MANY more who do!!!

  • Seth Yantiss

    Appreciating heritage, understanding your culture, believing in your inherent makeup is not discrimination.

    Gosh, now you use the word “Discrimination”. How are we supposed to argue if you keep changing the terms??? ;)

    From Dictionary.com

    Racism = a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

    Discrimination = the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment

    Bigotry = stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.

    Racial Discrimination = to discriminate based upon race.

    ——————————————-

    Discrimination is fine. We do that every day. We shouldn’t use race as our criteria for discrimination though.

    Just because we don’t have the same protocols, ethics, values, and cultural upbringing as you does not mean we have a need to cling to racial discrimination. Being different is important!

    Well, we share a value here then.

    Acculturation? Assimilation? Native peoples have fought against those concepts for years! What makes your culture and systems so superior?

    Well, our system doesn’t have 66% unemployment. I don’t defend the bums in my society by lashing out at people who point it out to me…

    Our people have resisted assimilation for years, decades. Nothing will change that.

    While I find this admirable, I have to ask: How’s that working out for you?

    Your culture used to produce strong family and personal values. Your faith and “gods” led you to take courageous and principled stands on issues. Now, your people have resisted joining the rest of the culture for what? A growing percentage of your people live on handouts and have to beg for scraps.

    The Eskimos and the Amish are having the same problems as your people. The Amish have been more successful.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Melissa A.. – People like likwidshoe would make accusations and twist and turn their words around..

    I don’t do that. And if you think I do, then point it out instead of just making baseless claims.

    We will now be recognized as uncaring pigs. The damage is done with his original article.

    The damage was done by the response. You guys look like fools.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Seth, I tried that, so did Rae, and Faith, and Whitney, and Creasy, and…

    Rae said that there was nothing we could do except capitulate. She wouldn’t see Rob’s point even when Rob stated that he didn’t say what she said he said.

    I never saw Faith’s posts.

    Andy and Whitney were threatening from the moment they signed in.

    You know we’ve tried, and we were treated very badly.

    The very first time I posted on this topic I was threatened. No amount of explanation matters to you folks (except you it seems). I tell you that I don’t look down on Indians because of Rob’s article and it doesn’t matter… others say the same thing and it doesn’t matter.

    Then, when the anger became real, the offense went into action.

    The attack happened when Andy and company signed in and DEMANDED a retraction to Rob’s (perfectly legal and legitimate) observations.

    If Rob was untrue in any of his statements, I’d be calling for a retraction too. But all he did was report on what he saw. I’ve said that I don’t think that applies to ALL of you… but it keeps coming up.

    I thought we had a chance with you to have a decent conversation, but, look what happened.

    We have been having a good conversation. A conversation doesn’t have to end in agreement though… Your tribe would banish a man that they don’t agree with. He did nothing more than write words on paper. Those words were true. But why can’t we talk about it? Why do I have to bow to your will? Isn’t there common ground to be had?

    You know Melissa, I’m going to head out soon and spend time with my wife and family and this conversation will have little impact on how I live, because I am just a person with some thoughts. But Andy L, enraged by hate is going to go around the internet and post bad things about me… when I have had NOTHING bad to say about him… or the rest of your tribe.

    Maybe you all will grow up…

    It’s not civilized to ban a man for stating his observations, especially if it’s true.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Andy L,

    Seth, grow up! Quit trying to make issue with me.

    You think I need to grow up?

    Did you go to “TheDeets.com” on May 5th and use my name in a post (that you must have found by googleing my name) and write the following garbage?

    H

    ey. I’m a Native American from North Dakota. I’m here to let you know what’s going on at sayanythingblog.com. The fools, Rob Port, Likwidshoe, Whistler, Proof, Seth, etc. are in the fight of their lives.

    What? Was I supposed to not notice this or the post on the GrandForks web site?

  • FKFL

    So why do you want to perpetuate a treaty that put your people on reservations to starve and die at gunpoint? The reservations weren’t created for your benefit, they were created for the benefit of white settlers.

    So why not end the cruel segregation? You seem to detest the fact that your people were put on reservations, but now you don’t want your people to come off them.

    You keep saying that I’m out for the destruction of your way of life, but I’m not. I’m all for you keeping your sweatlodges and your way of life. Honor your heritage. Be who you are. But why perpetuate a system that has your people segregated to little pockets of land in the middle of nowhere?

    Coming off the reservation doesn’t mean a destruction of your way of life, it means a better life.

    No the reservations were not created for our benefit, and had most of our land and resources not been stolen, and still are being stolen or denied us, we would probably not have the isssues we face today. The only way your suggestion would make sense is if everything was also returned to the state it was in prior to the treaty. I’d be all for that!
    IN SPITE of the genocide practiced (and still practiced) against our people, we perservere.
    To say that the answer is to throw out the treaties, which is basically what your suggestions on improvement would mean (I wonder how Japan or other countries would feel if the U.S. suggested that?) or just leave the rez, doesn’t account for the fact that there is a debt unpaid to the Pembina and other people at Turtle Mountain. Are you suggesting there be a time limit on the accords of ALL past treaties the U.S. has entered into, or just the ones with Indigenous Nations?)
    What you cannot know is how it feels to stand where all the generations before me have stood, to feel their spirit still in that land, to hear the old songs still in the trees where they have been forever, to taste the foods we have tasted, or at least what modern civilization has left unpolluted.
    No matter how often anyone on this blog says the article wasn’t directed at everyone on the rez, or all indians, isn’t going to change the fact that the original article didn’t mention anything like that, appeared to be directed wholely at a group of people and seemed to want to influence others to believe that it was true. Now that has been said over and over by various folks, but none seem to grasp that.
    Now that this thread is being read all over the world, seems it would make people kindof nervous about making a treaty with this country, and I doubt that was the impression you wanted to give.

  • RaeMarie70

    Rae, I put you on the “10 Word” protocol the 3rd time you posted here. Read your comment 10 words in, if it is the same old same old stop reading.

    Sign up for a readerblog and prove Rob wrong or shut up. That simple.

    H29–Who cares? I will shut up when I feel like shutting up. If you don’t want to read what I say, I could give a rat’s ass. I am not here for you. I, along with many others, have already proven Rob wrong. If we hadn’t, he wouldn’t have apologized for the things he said and how he wrote them!

  • RaeMarie70

    Rae said that there was nothing we could do except capitulate. She wouldn’t see Rob’s point even when Rob stated that he didn’t say what she said he said.

    Why is it that I have to see Rob’s point? Why doesn’t he have to see mine? And please tell me where I said that Rob said something, but he actually didn’t say it.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    gullit – the article posted only shows that rapes happen, which is not exactly an earth shattering finding.

    “melsbuttisnumb.” – How about telling the whole truth about the majority our people. That is all I ask.

    That’s not how articles are written. Typically, an article limits its to one topic. What you’re asking for is a book. (This point has already been made a few times.)

    The reason many are angry is because we are doing our part in helping our people. Rob didn’t mention that.

    You’re not doing it good enough. There are still major problems. (This point has already been made a few times.)

    Like I said before he fueled the fire that is raging against misconceptions about how all natives live their lives. I am tired of it. If I need to keep defending innocent people, and children from misconceptions I will.

    Well then, stop the presses. Start harassing Associated Press writer Angie Wagner for not “telling the whole truth”. Why are you wasting so much time on one article? You’ve got work to do. (This point has already been made a few times.)

    And I have been telling you, and whoever is listening that WE are. Rob’s article didn’t mention that!

    You’re not doing it well enough. (This point has already been made a few times.)

    We are. Read what I have been telling you. Come on Likwidshoe… There you go again putting your view in without doing your homework..

    I AM reading what you have been telling me. For goodness sakes, I’m responding to it each and every time you make the gawddamn point! Why don’t you drop the presumptuous attitude start reading what I have been saying?

    What’s that? The whole truth?

    It was an article, not a book.

    Now as far as calling me a useless bitch..

    The complaint was a useless bitch. Repeat: the complaint was a useless bitch.

    You are a follower likwidshoe… I wonder what would happen it Rob stopped short in front of you. Hmmm …. very funny…. you butt crack sniffer…. Be so kind and give me your definition of a useless bitch… I would really like to know your clever answer… you silly little boy!

    The kind of maturity I’ve come to expect from many who proclaim to practice that personal responsibility thing (that unsurprisingly produces little fruit).

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Oh, and furthermore, I bet Rob doesn’t even delete his comments, ban his username, or ban his IP.

    See, we don’t ban speech around here, no matter how much it offends us or hurts our feelings. We can take it.

    But fucknuts, while we tend to be supporters of the First Amendment, most of us are also supporters of the Second too. Pick up a copy of the Constitution and think about the implications of attacking folks in an alley. That kind of language and type of threats may fly where you are from, but trust me, your bullshit does little to inspire fear. We would rather use words to make our point than violence. Hence why we believe in free speech. Perhaps that philosophy does not work on the Rez. Maybe that is why they had to ban Rob “for his safety”.

  • Melissa A..

    Did not write what you have highlighted… wrong person…

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    RaeMarie70 said, Again, the problem, for me at least, isn’t with what Rob said, it is with what he didn’t say.

    Then start saying it. It’s been close to a month. What the HELL are you waiting for?

    I swear that you’re just content to bitch and moan.

    Check out what Creasy is doing. If I didn’t know any better, I’d swear that Creasy is a veteran at the blogging thing. That’s what you could be doing. Maybe not here, you could set up an account with Blogger and set something up. Or you could just write it here. That would save you the obligation of blogging, and you can do it whenever you want knowing that an audience of eyeballs will be here.

    Just write. Get the story out there if it is so damn important to you. I do know one thing and that is that the constant complaining about what you think was lacking from the articles is getting mighty old. Many of us have been asking for you to fill things in.

  • 2Hotel9

    So, gullit, only criminals go into the US military? Thanks for showing us who you really are.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    gullit – Taxes are being spent on the Iraq war about 7 billion dollars a day per presidential debates.

    You’re only off by about 6 and 4/5ths of a billion. But close enough I guess. You’re only off by a factor of 35.

    Yes, Native Americans will be drafted – US Government requirement…

    The only way Indians will be drafted is if the Democrats prove successful in bringing it back. Luckily for all of us, this nation’s representatives strike down such ideas. Don’t worry, even the Democrats who bring us such silly ideas end up voting against their own proposals. That’s how much of a cold turkey the issue is. It’s a non-starter.

    We don’t fight that way anymore. The military doesn’t want you if you don’t sign up yourself. A draftee is a liability that we have the luxury of avoiding.

    Now if this nation does need to bring the draft back? Watch out – because we’ll all be in some serious shit then.

  • Marilyn Knutson

    But,,,,,Isn’t it amazing how we send our troops to Iraq to fight for their FREEDOM when we in AMERICA don’t have FREEDOM. We as US CITIZEN’S cannot travel from one town to another with FREEDOM. If the reservations are going to start EXCLUDING people from entering the reservations then maybe the cities near the reservations need to start EXCLUDING people from their cities who threaten people or commit crimes. From my understanding tribes cannot be SOVEREIGN if they pay taxes or accept federal or state funding. I have not lived on the reservation for almost 25 years so the Spirit Lake Tribe has no jurisdiction on me. Have you ever lived on the reservation ROB? Each citizen on the reservation has as much right to improved their living/life style on the reservation just as the person off the reservation. You first have to want to help yourself first and quit thinking everybody owes you. No one can change your life/lifestyle but yourself. If individuals quit thinking people owe them then they have already made a change in their life. We have to quit thinking the white man owes us for taking our land and get on with life since I know none of us ever fought in those wars and that happened a long time ago. Just because someone owns something in the reservation boundaries does not mean the tribe or reservation owns it.

  • gullit

    I suppose, if some of our tax dollars weren’t going towards the reservation, it wouldn’t technically be my business. But since we are to some extent to blame for this situation because of the misuse of our taxes, it seems to me we have a moral duty to speak out against it.
    Carrick on May 20, 2007 at 05:43 pm

    I was responding to the above comments. Iik posted a reply so on and on. Thanks for the article on appropriations being spent in Iraq. I apologize I must have heard the time span wrong. It is 6 billion a month and grows by 2 million each and every day. January 2006 posted 323 billion spent.

    Why do you need 2Hotel9 to verify your statements…. What makes you think I am a guy?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    RaeMarie70 – ignoring your tired insults, I have to wonder what you think the purpose of a blog is when you state this, Well, Creasy is an idiot! Why he wastes his time putting up articles that everyone rips apart because it comes from a different viewpoint is beyond me!

    That’s what we do here. The whole point is to debate. We all have different viewpoints and that is what seems to bother you the most.

  • 2Hotel9

    Mariyln, welcome to sayanything, hope you stick around. A lot more going on here than this single debate. The main thrust of Rob’s original article was that people living on rez have to help themselves. And as several of us tried to point out, on many rezs the Tribe Members are building businesses and combating the same problems all Americans have to face, with varying degrees of success.

    Rob pointed out that Federal and State entitlement programs are making all these problems worse. For that he has been viciously attacked. And now the entire thing has been picked up by national and international news services. Perhaps this will focus an uncomfortable amount of attention onto issues such as your family are dealing with and away from the bickering and pointless name calling.

    And yes, andy, Rae, zac, I participate in that. You sling crap on me or my associates and I sling it back doubled. Never back up, never back off, and never back down.

    And Marilyn, stay strong. You can bring your brother out the other side of his addiction. It ain’t gonna be easy, or pretty, but it can be done.

  • gullit

    Rob Port is getting publicity on our time. I watched FOX news yesterday as it posted to appear. The time slot did not run the item on its network. False advertising…. Being skeptical of the situation – confusion occurs when the current tribal chairman (Doc Brien) seeks Economic Development or Proverty to Prosperity but his wife shops for groceries off the reservation in Rolla, ND, which is of course operated and owned by white people. According to Doc, the only monies he spends on the reservation is purchasing gasoline. So, I can see where confusion and sending the wrong signals can happen. History dictates that we lost the war and experienced a holocaust. The surviving members should be proud of their ancestors accomplishing this large feat. Jewish people have created tourism on their plight maybe we should also….

  • jd

    “getting a little hot under the collar there JD..
    Melissa ”

    Ohhhhhh! Melissa, so close! You only missed it by one period there!

    or should I say,

    Ohhhhhh…………….. Melissa…………. so close…………….. You only miseed it by one period there…………….

  • Seth Yantiss

    Rob makes every member of the Turtle Mountain Tribe out to be uncaring pigs, and he wonders why we don’t care for him much…

    Again, ad nausium, I never took Rob’s article to mean all… But you’re doing a great job of making most look “dense”. If you are an example of your people’s capacity to grasp a concept then your tribe is doomed. Thankfully, for you, the US government will always provide a handout.

    One Angry Momma Indian, Melissa

    Sheesh… finalize the sex change… one way or the other MELissa.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Suddenly I become the arbiter of all thing Indian, LOL!

    Read back in the threads Seth. You’ve said deplorable things, defending Rob.

    Oh, now that I am in the for the “Fight of my life”, perhaps you’ll beat me with my own posts… Okay, great one… what did I say? What deplorable, nasty, horrific, Indian gnashing thing did I say? Where is it???

    Or is it JUST that I defended Rob?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    gullit – lilwidshoe: The year 2004? No current appropriations are out there since then??

    *sigh*…you’re not very good at this debating thing. Pay attention dude:

    Taxes are being spent on the Iraq war about 7 billion dollars a day per presidential debates.

    That’s what you said, so that’s what I referenced. Simple as that.

    I challenge you to find out if 7 Billion a day is truly wrong.

    It’s most certainly wrong. But really – it’s your claim. The onus is up to you to prove your claim.

    Here’s a recent column putting the figure at about 200 million a day. That took about three seconds to find.

    No interest in researching AFDC receipients nationwide???

    Again: what’s your point here?

  • gullit

    2Hotel9 – Do your own research….

    Carrick – If entitlement programs are discontinued – would it be nationwide?

  • gullit

    If they meet the age limit, etc., of course.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    2Hotel9 – So, gullit, only criminals go into the US military? Thanks for showing us who you really are.

    I think he’s saying that criminals are given a choice to go into the military, not that all military men are criminals. Which is, of course, complete bullshit. Judges no longer offer the simple lawbreaker “5 years in the army or prison, take your pick”. They just don’t do that anymore.

    Unless gullit can show us news reports that show us that what he’s claiming is true. I’ll be surprised if we get those news reports.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    gullit – Ike

    What’s with the “Ike”?

    Carry your own weight on debates.

    That’s sort of been one of the points for the last few comments. Glad you’re aboard!

    What I think is you are employees of this blog and need to keep up the chatter so more monies will come in by ads. Am I correct?

    No. Not at all. Employees? Hmm…good idea. HEY ROB! PAY ME! :)

    Getting personal about not knowing my butt from my head is no debate….. Sorry

    When you’re lost, you’re lost! (And no, that doesn’t mean “win or lose”.) And nobody ever claimed that that was the debate. Stating that only shows us that you’re lost again.

  • melsbuttisnumb.

    Melissa – That is when Rob needs to go back, and take a good look at exactly what he wrote and fix it with the one who he hurt.
    Likwidshoe ~~~ Now why would he sugarcoat things just to assuage the delicate feelings of those who hurt themselves? Many of you keep on asking for Rob to tip-toe around people who are inserting themselves into the whole debate. To answer your question – how about NO?

    How about telling the whole truth about the majority our people. That is all I ask. The reason many are angry is because we are doing our part in helping our people. Rob didn’t mention that. Why not give us some credit. Seems to me Rob has been asking for the same thing. There are many more issues that Rob did not write about. Of course Rob will get attention for his few hundred unkind word article. The bigots and racists have their views, and nobody will change that, except themselves of course. People are cruel with their accusations, name calling, pointing fingers. Like I said before he fueled the fire that is raging against misconceptions about how all natives live their lives. I am tired of it. If I need to keep defending innocent people, and children from misconceptions I will.

    Melissa~~~>Do you have any solutions for our poverty?
    Likwidshoe~~~>We’ve been telling you. It’s called personal responsibility.
    And I have been telling you, and whoever is listening that WE are. Rob’s article didn’t mention that! Go back and read…
    Melissa~~~>Why don’t you volunteer your time and help pick the filth that Rob mentions off of the reservation, but only if you really care.

    We are. Read what I have been telling you. Come on Likwidshoe… There you go again putting your view in without doing your homework.. Like I said above, nobody will change unless they want to.

    Likwidshoe~~~~> Why don’t you do it yourself? Again, it’s that personal responsibility concept.
    Melissa~~~~> I do, and many more do too, but Rob failed to mention that.
    Likwidshoe~~~> Now why would he have to mention any of that? Talk about a useless bitch.

    What’s that? The whole truth? That would help a whole lot! Now as far as calling me a useless bitch.. You are a follower likwidshoe… I wonder what would happen it Rob stopped short in front of you. Hmmm …. very funny…. you butt crack sniffer…. Be so kind and give me your definition of a useless bitch… I would really like to know your clever answer… you silly little boy!

  • 2Hotel9

    Blahblahblah. Round in circles. Wheeeeee.

    You want the positive side? You supply it. Period.

  • Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~

    OMG!!! Rob makes every member of the Turtle Mountain Tribe out to be uncaring pigs, and he wonders why we don’t care for him much… Use your common sense Rob! I pray that when my children are out and about, they will not be taunted by all of your half truth words you wrote… Did you think about them Rob? My innocent children! They are who I live my life for… You have labeled them before they have any chance in this festering world… I am doing everything I can to make them wonderful people, they are our future. I feel I need to defend them because of YOU!! I am not the only parent who feels raped by your comments. You have abused your welcome on our reservation… Stay away from us… If you didn’t mean the whole reservation Rob, you should have mentioned so.. Any other good reporter would have… Are there any reporters who have a reputation on fairness, accuracy, and honesty?? Send them my way… One Angry Momma Indian, Melissa

    THAT IS MY POINT…. SILLY BOY!

  • Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~

    I know all about the meth users on our reservation, and others, and all around the our country. I am not disagreeing with that. I will tell you once again; I am defending the slander Rob wrote about all of the us on our reservation.. He didn’t mention only some natives, he mentioned all… That first article he wrote is out there for many to read and that is what we will be ridiculed for. We are making changes and it will take time to see the difference, but it is happening. Are you trying to change my target Likwidshoe? My children use the same tactic.. Silly kids, silly boy… I am focused on Robs article. Get used to it… Back to the target.. He did not write the whole story fairly, and if he needs to write a book, so be it… Make sure he gets the whole story… Instead of slandering us; use us for what we are trying to do… Oh yes, I forgot.. You don’t see that, only read what Rob wrote. You’re a smart, although a silly little clever boy.. BTW, so you didn’t insult me by calling me a useless bitch? You need to stop harassing me.. You said it was fun trying to find out who I was… Why would that be fun… If you don’t like what my point is, you too can see my name and keep on scrolling..
    Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~ on May 21, 2007 at 09:08 am

    Likwudshoe wrote~~~~~> Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~ – your point has been repeatedly debunked and you’ve been too stupid to recognize it. All you can do is repeat your debunked point like a parrot.

    Are you tired of it Licamyshoe?? Too bad for you… Like I said repeatedly, SO AM I. We have heard what some accuse Native Americans for being.. We have heard it all… You are too stupid to realize THAT; but the fool that you are, keeps coming back for more. For some reason you remind me of a little hyped-up dog. Your insults are predicted, that is the way all argumentive, ignorant, righteous finger pointers are.. All talk… Now, you clever silly little boy this is my point… I will cut and paste just for you… Read it slowly and let it sink in…

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~ – your point has been repeatedly debunked and you’ve been too stupid to recognize it. All you can do is repeat your debunked point like a parrot.

  • Marilyn K

    I have this friend who lives on welfare and she goes to bingo 6-7 nights a week and the smallest bingo packet is $11.00 so that $66.00 – $77.00 plus paying a babysitter plus the gas money to get to the bingo. Now lets take a look next time we go to bingo and look who is all sitting there playing bingo or playing at the casino. Then ask yourself this question….why do my children go without things and why can’t we live better.

  • RaeMarie70

    I had thought that she might be you. Some of your writing habits made me think that it was quite possible that I was right. In any regard, I wouldn’t put her info here it wasn’t posted here.

    So is that how you determined that you have the right to post other people’s personal information?

  • Marilyn K

    Seth,
    I didn’t say anything about Bush overspending money. I do agree he should cut most welfare programs and do like they use to do years ago with food stamps. If need and wanted the person purchased they for a lesser dollar amount and I think each store should be ID’ing these people when they spend the food stamps make sure is is the person the stamps were issued to. If person is unable to go to store by there self then they should have a caretaker who must do the same thing. Make sure the children are getting the food in there mouths and the stamps are not getting sold. The children are the ones who suffer here not the adults.

  • 2Hotel9

    You are unable to prove there is not rampant poverty, drug addiction, alcoholism. That is the only explanation. You lose. Goodbye.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Marilyn K, Good points! Though I disagree about Bush not spending enough on people here. There’s an over-abundance of domestic spending. All it does is enable people to go “play bingo” or whatever they do with the “free” money.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Marilyn K,

    Sorry, I took your statement below to mean that Bush was spending too little domestically.

    President Bush is taking our tax dollars and our kids for FREEDOM in other countries well I think he should take care of us US citizen’s first.

    Did you intend a different message?

  • 2Hotel9

    Rob, you are #1 at googlenews.

  • 2Hotel9

    Melissa, my good man, you will learn not to ask open-ended questions like that of me. For there is whatnot I do want to know from you.

    How should the subjects of this article feel about and behave towards its author?

    Qat is one habit most Yemenis can’t – or won’t – kick
    By Nichole Sobecki
    Special to The Daily Star
    Saturday, May 19, 2007

    Qat is one habit most Yemenis can’t – or won’t – kick

    SANAA: Walking along the colorful streets of Sanaa is an experience in and of itself. Sanaa is at least 2,500 years old and the entire old city is a UNESCO World Heritage Site, replete with tall stucco houses whose perforated walls use the winds for natural ventilation.

    In the narrow lanes of Sanaa’s market, covered women and jambiya-touting men stream past as you are pressed to buy everything from covered lanterns to “honey of the gods” and your senses succumb to the smell of burning incense. To the Romans, Yemen was, after all, Arabia Felix, the home of frankincense and myrrh.

    But the most defining aspect of Yemen’s street life remains disconnected from the chaos and activity of the market. Instead, around noon, the streets of Sanaa begin to flood with men (and occasionally women) sprawled out in a hazy, drug-induced daze.

    “Everything becomes quiet. If you have a problem, you forget all about it,” says Haraz Mohammad, a driver for the Mercure Hotel in Sanaa.

    Qat is king in Yemen.

    Everywhere you go you find men with cheeks bulging bizarrely as they get their fix. In technical terms, qat is a shrub containing “alkaloid cathinone,” an amphetamine-like stimulant whose leaves, when you chew them, induce mild euphoria, excitement, hallucinations – and sometimes constipation. In 1980, the World Health Organization classified qat as a drug of abuse that can produce mild to moderate psychological dependence, and the plant has been targeted by anti-drug agencies like the United States’ Drug Enforcement Administration.
    http://www.dailystar.com.lb

    Most estimates agree that about three-quarters of Yemeni adults chew qat leaves every afternoon, for a period lasting at least five hours. People spend about a quarter to a third of their income on qat. Because the drug has come to mean everything in Yemeni life, some among the poorer segments of society will willingly forego food for a bag of leafy greens.

    “No development can be achieved in Yemen as long as this plant called qat takes up 90 percent of the spare time of the Yemeni people,” Yemeni social critic Saad Saleh Khalis wrote in a 1993 article for the Yemen Times. “Some may argue that this is an old tradition of Yemen … But even if that were so, harmful traditions must be thrown away … The people and the government are satisfied with cursing qat and its effects.”

    Indeed, the people and the government are satisfied with merely, and rarely, cursing qat. The state has no adequate policies to apply to the problem.

    “When you turn right you find qat, left, qat, in front of you qat. Qat is Yemen,” says Omar Abdullah, a driver for Movenpick hotel in Sanaa.

  • andy l

    So stop [expletive deleted] about Robs storie and start making changes that need to be made
    rez girl on May 26, 2007 at 08:32 am

    Rez, if you really pay attention to current events, you’d realize changes have been made on a continuous basis for years now, positive changes. Please read my above post.

    I will pray for you, and hope that your mind clears. Contact me if you need to. Andy

  • andy l

    Liar.
    Back up your charges for a change.
    likwidshoe on May 26, 2007 at 06:48 pm

    Why don’t you back up some of yours? If you want, I’ll go out searching and find the threads. That should give you and your buddies at this site a good laugh, to see how racist you really are!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Google site search for “non-taxpayers”. You can see that Andrew Laverdure is a liar. Nobody ever claimed that Indians pay no taxes. That claim is only a construct of the liar Andrew Laverdure.

    Andrew Laverdure can’t back up his claims, even though it is easy to do so. He can’t back up his claims because they are lies.

  • andy l

    And I’d like you to link to any instance when anyone on this site called Indian women [expletive deleted]. Since you’re so adamant that this happened, prove it, or apologize for lying.
    Rob on May 26, 2007 at 09:01 am

    rob, you know I’m not lying. What, are you deleting all the references? don’t worry, I’ve made copies of everything. Acrobat Reader is a wonderful tool.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    as far as your conscience will let you define my statements

    BTW, Andy, do you ever listen to yourself speak? Your convoluted doublespeak is purely Clintonian.
    (Depends on what your definition of “truth” is!)

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    andy l – Why don’t you back up some of yours?

    I do. Remember this comment? I caught you in a lie there. Funny, but you ignored it.

    If you want, I’ll go out searching and find the threads. That should give you and your buddies at this site a good laugh, to see how racist you really are!

    Yeah, whatever there Mr. Crazy. You won’t find any racism in any of my comments. I don’t think like you do. I’m not of your kind. Skin color just doesn’t matter to me like it matters to you. Get that through your mental midget head.

    Or, prove me wrong. Put your money where your mouth is.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Your spin is all wrong, and you are being revealed to the outside world for what you really are. I’ve checked out some of the other blog sites you’ve trolled. Racist comments made in many.

    Liar.

    Back up your charges for a change.

  • andy l

    No, your spin is all wrong. They were called lies because they are lies. Much of what you say is. It has nothing to do with us or our “conscience”. It all has to do with what comes out of your mouth.
    likwidshoe on May 26, 2007 at 06:37 pm

    Your spin is all wrong, and you are being revealed to the outside world for what you really are. I’ve checked out some of the other blog sites you’ve trolled. Racist comments made in many. Those sites weren’t commenting about Indian issues, either. Other races, other nationalities, other issues. You guys were right, after all, google is a good tool.

  • Melissa A..

    2Hotel9, what would you like to know?

  • Melissa A..

    rae.. Hair.. Melissa A

  • Melissa A..

    Seth, did you get the message I sent you last night… You were pointing at the wrong person… I did not write what you hightlighted… Melissa

  • andy l

    But more seriously did you banish the thieves that stole food out of the mouths of tribal members?
    Or is that ok to do actual harm, you just banish people for political cover for the mismanagement of reservation assets?
    The Whistler on May 26, 2007 at 07:15 pm

    No, idiot. But I did get fired for speaking out, if that’s what you want to know.

  • Bat One

    I find it hilarious that none of Rob’s critics have yet to dispute the actual facts that Rob alleged about reservation conditions.

    Ken,

    Hilarious is hardly adequate. If any one of these self-styled defenders had honestly thought that what Rob had written was not the truth, they could easily have invited him back to re-visit the reservation to show him where and how his observations were mistaken. They haven’t done so, apparently because they are afraid of the truth.

    It’s time to move away from the whole idea of reservations. “Separate but equal” clearly doesn’t work any better now than it did 60 years ago.

  • Seth Williams

    I drag the Jews into it because I’m following the logic of your “first come, first served” theory of law and history to its logical conclusions, when applied to other circumstances.

    Or does the standard only apply when it advantages a group–arbitrarily defined by ethinc/cultural characteristics–you have an emotional affinity for?

    …but if that’s the case, then you’ll have to forgive me for thinking you something of a bigot.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    By the looks of this page, ignorance reigns.

    “Ignorance” doesn’t mean things that you don’t want to hear.

    I’ve been verbally assaulted for wanting to hear some good from people. Nice.

    Assaulted? Break out the fainting couch!

    How come you didn’t answer Rob’s question asking for an explanation of your “violent language” comment? Are you just incapable of having a normal back and forth conversation?

  • Kade

    Yes. He should not.

  • Pilgrim

    Interesting. What I’m seeing here and in the reaction to Rob’s column is the absolute amazement on the PC side that anyone would actually write something about our Native American brothers and sisters that’s not, A: Illustrating the victimizing of their people by, well, everyone, or, B: painting them as noble, long suffering people who just can do no wrong.

    Someone had the nerve to write something that wasn’t either of the above. Can’t have that now, can we?

    Must be a racist. Or a hater. Or a Nazi. Or one of those free speech lunatics who think they can just write anything they want.

    Don’t you hate it when that happens. Evidently they do.

  • Melissa

    What do you do for a living Wren? Just wondering? You sound really bitter…

  • Seth Yantiss

    Justin B, comments like yours are espoused daily in my house and the reason I like Rob’s site so much. There’s a lot of that sentiment here, and I like that!

    Thank you!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Lisa, watch yourself on here, some twist and turn our words around.. We are with the best of the best manipulators.

    This is coming from someone who insists that Rob really meant something that he didn’t write. That behavior is called projection.

  • andy l

    You will find people who don’t want to listen, but MANY MANY more who do!!!
    Seth Yantiss on May 18, 2007 at 12:15 pm

    Seth, I tried that, so did Rae, and Faith, and Whitney, and Creasy, and…

    You know we’ve tried, and we were treated very badly. Then, when the anger became real, the offense went into action. Rob’s blog, Rob’s attack dogs, Rob’s teletubbies. Am I right? Look back to our initial comments, might take some time. Or, better yet, look back to some of the overtures we made to you. I thought we had a chance with you to have a decent conversation, but, look what happened.

  • Melissa A..

    Look in the mirror Likwidshoe.. You will defiantly see the fool.. You do do that!! The damage was done … is just one example.. You pick and choose sentences from andy, misty, and rae.. BTW, guys.. Good Job! You do twist it around, and you know it. They have made you look like a fool over, and over again, and The Fool that you are, you keep coming back for more.. Go hide in your hole! I offered to talk about our tribe to you all and the only one who responded was Seth. Instead of criticizing us he offers advice even though he doesn’t not agree with us. As for you jd, I am sure you too read where I offered to answer question about the reservation, and you are still stuck on my punctuation. Get out of the rut your stuck in JD! Get over it… Take my advice, and pass me up when you see that I write something.. It is easy…. You see the name Melissa, close your eyes, so that you are not tempted, and keep on scrolling…

  • Melissa A..

    Thank you considering I am a man… you Freak..

  • andy l

    but if you cuss the rest of us won’t have to read it.
    Rob on May 26, 2007 at 08:59 am

    Good, because your guys have been doing most of the cussing and name calling. Likwidshoe will be severely limited in his dialogue now.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    andy l – No, idiot. But I did get fired for speaking out, if that’s what you want to know.

    Wow. Just goes to show the appalling state of the Indian reservations. They fired you for blowing the whistle on theft!

    Absolutely appalling. Wouldn’t you agree?

  • Melissa A..

    Good for you Rob…. At our expence…. Are you proud of yourself? Honestly Rob… It sickens me to have all your sidekicks cheer you on… I guess my fellow members were right.. You are in this for the fame.. That is horrible..

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    andy l – She has lots of influence in the Indian world, something you know little about.

    We’re finding out more and more. She, along with you and many others, level “racism” charges at any criticisms leveled against the reservation system. It’s what people do when they have weak arguments.

    In reference to “same lies, different venue”, to you they might be lies, because that’s only as far as your conscience will let you define my statements, but to many others, my words ring the truth.

    No, your spin is all wrong. They were called lies because they are lies. Much of what you say is. It has nothing to do with us or our “conscience”. It all has to do with what comes out of your mouth.

  • andy l

    Found a comment by Andy Laverdure on the blog Censored. Same lies, different venue.
    Turtle Mountain Chippewa excludes insulting author
    Proof on May 26, 2007 at 11:32 am

    Proof, glad you found the site. Brenda Norrell is a good person. She has lots of influence in the Indian world, something you know little about. Try reading through the site. You might find it enlightening.

    In reference to “same lies, different venue”, to you they might be lies, because that’s only as far as your conscience will let you define my statements, but to many others, my words ring the truth.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    as far as your conscience will let you define my statements

    Sorry, Andy! I’m a big fan of objective reality. I compared what you said was said on this blog against what was actually said.
    Who am I going to believe? You or my own lying eyes!
    (That was rhetorical! You, sir, are a liar!)

  • andy l

    Andy are you still on the Tribal Council in Belcourt? Is this the reason you feel everyone is wrong about their point of view! I do know the Tribal Council get lots of money for sitting on the council for doing what? Now you tell me if the council never got payed all that money, would you or anyone else be willing to run for council. You say the reservation is doing so good, then why or you and alot of other reservation’s going and asking for loans for your tribe is broke. Hey what happen to those per-caps we were suppose to be getting from our casino? Or has any of those people that stole our money given any of it back? And yes I do keep up with the news, which I would like to know what happen that those new elderly homes were turned away? I do think we should of took the money a built those new homes, don’t you
    rez girl on May 26, 2007 at 01:29 pm

    Rez girl. First of all, I’ve never been on Tribal Council. If you have concerns about the money the Tribal Council gets paid, you need to address it to the tribe. I have no control over that.

    As far as any loans being taken out by the tribe, I imagine those are for economic development purposes. Per capita payments from casino revenues? Come on girl, with 32,000 enrolled? Each tribal member would get about ten dollars a year. Per capita means every enrolled member, by law. Our enrolled members reside in every state and most cities. Per capita would be impossible. Who ever told you we were supposed to be getting a per cap anyway.

    If you really knew who I was, you wouldn’t be asking me about stolen money. I am usually the one that reports program theft on the reservation. I have fought with the tribe and various boards several times. At least I’ve done something about the problem. Have you?

    In response to the elderly home situation, I really don’t know what home you’re talking about. The new retirement home is fully constructed and ready for occupation. Don’t know of any other issues. One might be the single unit apartment building that was proposed and sent back to the drawing board. Tax Credit project, I believe. New homes are being built on a regular basis on the reservation. The tribe is aggressive in that area.

    You need to keep a closer eye on the news, girl.

  • andy l

    I await the inevitable labeling of you as a ‘racist’.
    I hope your okay with that…
    Seth Yantiss on May 25, 2007 at 09:25 pm

    Winyan, no one will label you. Seth just likes to rant.

  • Marilyn K

    What I mean about the war in Iraq is…..We AMERICANS are sending our troops to fight for FREEDOM in other countries when we don’t have FREEDOM in the United States. President Bush is taking our tax dollars and our kids for FREEDOM in other countries well I think he should take care of us US citizen’s first.
    My sister and I aren’t able to travel freely in North Dakota…..My sister’s grand-daughter was murdered on January 5, 2007 she was traveling through Fort Totten on STATE Hwy 57 by the Spirit Lake Casino and was arrested for violation of the Exclusion she sat in jail January 5th – January 8th and was told next time she would spend 30 days in jail. If we so much as get caught in the BOUNDARIES of the Spirit Lake Reservation we will be arrested.
    Rob can you travel freely on the STATE highways thru Turtle Mountain Reservation?
    We have a letter from the U.S. Department of Justice along with a letter from Senator Kent Conrad and Senator Byron Dorgan saying I quote from the Senators letter I received. “Unfortunately, as United States Senators, they have no direct jurisdiction over tribal policies.” I’d be glad to e-mail you copies of the letters I received if you would like copies Rob. I don’t understand how the government can let this go on when my sister and I have not used drugs or threaten or hurt anyone and from what I understand Rob did not either.
    As far as poverty on the reservations again the only way it can be fixed it for the people to help themselves. For example if they continue to sell their food stamps instead of putting food on the table for their children and if they can find money to buy cigarettes, alcohol and drugs then it is not a poverty issue. The government need to have pictures on those EBT cards so everyone else isn’t using them. One lady said she sells her EBT because she gets too much and can’t use it all up. Those EBT cards are sold just like prescription drugs.
    I am 3/4 white and 1/4 Chippewa but I have not lived on the reservation for almost 25 years. I wanted my three daughters to have more than I had and realize it was alright not be full Indian. I remember as a young child going to the grocery store and always be called the wachichu kid (means white) to young at that time to understand what it meant but as I got older and learned what that meant along with other words we were called. When I would hear those words as a young child I thought there was something wrong with the word as myself. To this day my daughters have never had a problem with the color of their skin or who they are because they have done everything in there power to live a respectful life and not to live off the system or there tribe. My daughters are 7/8′s Native and will never discriminate against another color for they know what I went through living on the Spirit Lake Reservation growing up white….as those people who said things never looked at my 1/4 Chippewa only my white. I put up with the racist stuff from both sides but I do have to say it comes more often and severe from the Native side.
    From history repeating itself nobody knows any different unless they are raised different. So no one is to blame but the parents. I was also a single mother.

  • andy l

    What? Is this an explecitive now? Never was before! Only when Andy uses it to demonstrate what was said many times before by Rob’s boys to describe Indian women? Well, everyone pretty much knows what’s been said anyway.

  • RaeMarie70

    Rob also failed to write that there are not armadillo’s on the Turtle Mountain Reservation.

    Now this statement is just ridiculous! Please explain how this is even close to Rob’s inability to paint a complete picture in his description of the reservation. I know that if Rob would have used words in his article like “this is some of the reservation”, “not all of the people live in the ghetto”, “some parents take care of their children”, “there are people that work and earn a living”, and “while the reservation isn’t perfect, it can be a wonderful place to live and raise a family”–I wouldn’t have felt the need to defend. This has been my point from the beginning. But instead of people trying understand that, I am a “victim”, I am in “denial”, and I am a “leech” who “sucks on the government’s tit”.

    I will be the first to admit that the reservation isn’t perfect. But to imply that we don’t know enough to solve our problems, is ridiculous.

    If Rob would have written his opinion like he wrote his letter in the Times, he wouldn’t have put himself in the situation he is in unless that was what he was after. Because he sure has gotten a lot of attention and press the last few weeks.

    A quote from his letter–”On close examination I can see how the citizens of the reservation might misunderstand what I was trying to explain. I should have been more specific about what I saw in a single area over the period of a couple of days so as not to give the impression that all reservation residents lived as I described. If you were offended I am sorry.”

    Too bad he didn’t realize this before he decided to publish his opinion in the Dakota Beacon.

    Again, the problem, for me at least, isn’t with what Rob said, it is with what he didn’t say.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    You know what’s amazing about that Seth? That Andrew Laverdure believes he is putting us through “the fight of their lives”. The hubris required to claim something like that…

  • andy l

    Says Mister Anyone-Who-Disagrees-With-Me-Is-Racist.
    Rob on May 26, 2007 at 09:02 am

    Real cute, Mr. Ibeavictimandgetnorespectblog bigot.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Andrew Laverdure – Indians are accused in the threads as being “non-taxpayers”…

    Liar. You won’t prove this because you can’t. You’re a liar.

    Indian women are called “welfare [expletive deleted]“, Indian children are called “bastards”.

    Liar. Only one 19 year old girl who was boasting about being on welfare and not having a job (even though one restaurant wanted to hire her) and having a kid with no father was properly labeled a welfare wh0re with a bastard child.

    Next time try telling the whole truth, liar.

    Then you come on here and defend Rob Port? You claim to be an Indian person, where is all of the self-hatred coming from.

    There is no “self-hatred”, liar.

    Rez, if you really pay attention to current events, you’d realize changes have been made on a continuous basis for years now, positive changes.

    Liar.

    I will pray for you, and hope that your mind clears.

    “rez girl’s” mind doesn’t need to clear.

    Only when Andy uses it to demonstrate what was said many times before by Rob’s boys to describe Indian women?

    Liar. Read the above.

    Good, because your guys have been doing most of the cussing and name calling. Likwidshoe will be severely limited in his dialogue now.

    Liar. I’ll admit that I sometimes cuss a bit more than I should, but you’ve got me beat. So stop lying about it, liar.

    Andrew Laverdure is just mad because he was the go-to guy in getting hundreds of thousands of federal welfare money to the Turtle Mountain tribe. When someone comes along and asks where that money went, he goes ballistic and invents a bunch of lies to cover up for his failures.

  • andy l

    Well, someone deleted Whores. Wonder where that comes from. Never happened before!

  • rez girl

    Andy are you still on the Tribal Council in Belcourt? Is this the reason you feel everyone is wrong about their point of view! I do know the Tribal Council get lots of money for sitting on the council for doing what? Now you tell me if the council never got payed all that money, would you or anyone else be willing to run for council. You say the reservation is doing so good, then why or you and alot of other reservation’s going and asking for loans for your tribe is broke. Hey what happen to those per-caps we were suppose to be getting from our casino? Or has any of those people that stole our money given any of it back? And yes I do keep up with the news, which I would like to know what happen that those new elderly homes were turned away? I do think we should of took the money a built those new homes, don’t you

  • rez girl

    I have to say Rob was right on the spot, when he stated some people on the res. have it good and some don’t. I have lived on the res. all my life and I know if your family is not in council or related to someone on the council, then you got nothing. And I will stated this is all reservations that this is happing. I have worked all my life and have not lived on the system (walfare or the tribe, I do make it, and all I have is thanks to myself and not feeling like the world owes me. I know my friends still believe that the white people owe the indians for coming to (as my friends say) their land and taking it. I all ways tell the indian people it was never our land and it is no ones land ,remember it belongs to the man who made it (heavenly father-Great Spirit) But getting back to Robs statment, yes their are lots of problems on the resevation that need to be taken care of. But no one wants to step up and state we need help. There are children hurting from their parents driking or doing drugs and not using the walfare or food stamps for their kids, hey as they say lets sell them and get another drink, the kids can go to school or to grandma’s for food. So take it from someone who lives on the reservation Robs storie was right on the spot, and I am one of those indian’s who will step up and say we are in need of clearing up the drugs and the drinking. But frist we need to start with our council and get them to remember, they are our leaders we put in office to lead us and show us the way, not to show us how to drink and do drugs, but to show us the way to a better life. And for our people to remember it is up to you to make a better life for your self and please keep telling others if it was not for the white man we would be better off. Remember your people leave the reservation and come back with the drugs and beer for you to take, no one tells you or forces you to take any thing or forces you. So stop bitching about Robs storie and start making changes that need to be made

  • RaeMarie70

    lik, you idiot! You are so busy defending Rob and his merry band of yes-men that you don’t pay attention to what is being said or maybe you CAN’T pay attention because you are stoned. Who knows, but it is getting a little annoying.

    The whole issue came up because of what he didn’t say in that article. For me, that is the basis for my disgust.

    Let me remind you of this bitchfest

    It doesn’t matter what is said on this blog. You, non-Indians will always be right and us, Indians will always be wrong. You continue to defend Rob’s opinion and continue to deny our opinion. I will always be wrong. It won’t matter what I say. Like I said on the other thread, you expect change from those on the reservation without being willing to change yourself. Why should you be right and us wrong?

    You’re still crying about the same thing today. People don’t agree with you and that’s not acceptable.

    I am not crying, whining, or bitching about it. I am just pointing out a fact. The statement I made previously is still true. You “right-tards” can’t get it through your thick skulls that your opinion isn’t the only opinion in this country. However, I realize that I am on a “right-tards” blog. I am not trying to change anyone’s opinion. I wouldn’t even waste my time trying to do the impossible.

    Remember this admission?

    Nobody is saying he didn’t tell it like it was. You guys just don’t get it. I have asked over and over again how anybody on this blog is trying to rectify the wrongs on reservations.

    Ouch. That will certainly come as a shock to andy. I did notice that you threw in the ever-popular “you just don’t get it” phrase. Is that a popular phrase around the reservation?

    I made the statement, not anyone else. And I don’t ever remember reading that someone said he was lying. I remember people saying that he was exaggerating. I remember people wondering how it was possible to make his opinion based on a 15 hour visit while looking for criminals.

    If Rob wrote that article because he was trying to help and the rest of you agreed with him that he was helping. Why wouldn’t I ask how he and the rest of you were going to change the situation on the reservation? You don’t want to help. You want to sit and bitch about where your tax dollars are going. You want to call people welfare animals, welfare queens, and leeches.

    If you think I am crying and bitching, what do you call what you are doing?

    By the way, YES, it is a popular phrase (at my house).

    Check out what Creasy is doing. If I didn’t know any better, I’d swear that Creasy is a veteran at the blogging thing. That’s what you could be doing.

    Well, Creasy is an idiot! Why he wastes his time putting up articles that everyone rips apart because it comes from a different viewpoint is beyond me! Obviously, he has time on his hands. I, on the other hand, have better things to do with my time than try to get you non-Indian people to understand, know, and feel what an honor it is to be an American Indian. To me, it would be like trying to get men to understand, know, and feel what it is like to give birth.

  • RaeMarie70

    Can you give me a hint? :)

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    The fools, Rob Port, Likwidshoe, Whistler, Proof, Seth, etc. are in the fight of their lives.

    Fight of our lives? Ha!
    Andy Panderer: Nobody here has even broken a sweat trading words with you. You sir, are a legend in your own mind!

  • andy l

    So far, I don’t see where much is being done that will make us look good, on or off the rez. If we are not allowed to discuss it, bring it up, and are to be “penalized” for speaking up about the inequity and the injustices, then I think we can all pretty much see where we are going in this handcart.
    You know where to find me.”
    ~Cat
    Wiyan on May 25, 2007 at 05:51 pm

    Read each of the threads in their entirety. Then you will see where the anger comes from. We are not talking about rob’s so-called “revelation”, everyone knows how things are. We’ve never hidden that. And to imply that nothing is being done about our “problems” is an unbelievable generalization. What has caused that anger is the suggested “solution”, an end to the reservation system. Indians are accused in the threads as being “non-taxpayers” and “freeloaders” who suck off the “government’s tit”. Indian women are called “welfare whores”, Indian children are called “bastards”.

    Then you come on here and defend Rob Port? You claim to be an Indian person, where is all of the self-hatred coming from. If you know how to reach me, please do so. We need to talk.

  • Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~

    tired of reading it over and over again and again? Go do the reasearch yourself.. Better yet lets have Rob do another story on it.. where some can sit with him and give him the facts, the bad and good…

  • andy l

    I’m right, Andy. And more of your people know it than you’d care to admit.
    Rob on May 26, 2007 at 08:58 am

    You got numbers for that too? What’s the percentage?

  • Seth Yantiss

    By the way, where do you get your internet connection? I don’t think smoke signals worked that well…

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    RaeMarie70 – Why is it that I have to see Rob’s point? Why doesn’t he have to see mine? And please tell me where I said that Rob said something, but he actually didn’t say it.

    Let me remind you of this bitchfest

    It doesn’t matter what is said on this blog. You, non-Indians will always be right and us, Indians will always be wrong. You continue to defend Rob’s opinion and continue to deny our opinion. I will always be wrong. It won’t matter what I say. Like I said on the other thread, you expect change from those on the reservation without being willing to change yourself. Why should you be right and us wrong?

    You’re still crying about the same thing today. People don’t agree with you and that’s not acceptable.

    Some of you seem genuinely surprised to run into people who might *gasp* actually have a different opinion. Others, and Rae you’re firmly in this camp, spend all your time talking about how the good things don’t get brought up.

    Well,…what are you waiting for? Bring the good things up. It’s been almost a month guys. You haven’t produced. Are there no good things on the reservation to talk about? Maybe there really aren’t too many good things to talk about. You’d figure that the greatest defenders would bring them up, and yet they don’t. Go figure.

    Remember this admission?

    Nobody is saying he didn’t tell it like it was. You guys just don’t get it. I have asked over and over again how anybody on this blog is trying to rectify the wrongs on reservations.

    Ouch. That will certainly come as a shock to andy. I did notice that you threw in the ever-popular “you just don’t get it” phrase. Is that a popular phrase around the reservation?

  • 2Hotel9

    Basically, Melissa, you are not going to tell anyone anything positive about your Rez. A family man, you must have a camera? You obviously have a computer. And yet nothing positive to tell or show the world. Just semantics games and circular crap.

    Thats really helping dispell all those preconceived and prejudicial notions. Isn’t it?

  • melsbuttisnumb.

    better name?

  • Seth Yantiss

    If you are not a bigot or a racist please disregard me, and my comments.

    I’m not, but I thought we had a fair conversation going. I get your gripe… so far as I can tell, all the regulars here get your gripe. I’m fairly certain that Rob gets your gripe.

    We don’t agree with you having a gripe because none of us thought Rob was talking about all of you. But!!!! I understand your vent!!! If we can move past that and discuss the issue rationally, that would be a big step. One that Andy and a host of others can not make. I’m fairly certain that you can.

    Anyway, I don’t think it was fair to judge the book by its cover.. Do you?

    I find myself thinking in stereotypes from time to time. I try to stop it. Good conversations with diverse people bring me back to the reality, which is no one fits all of any stereotypical mold.

    I felt uncomfortable when likwidshoe tried to find out who I was..

    Frankly, if I was the member of a community who would banish someone for speaking the truth, I’d be a little worried about people finding out who I really was too. I hope having a civil conversation with an outsider doesn’t cause you grief.

    Sorry to have offended you Seth. I know you do care..

    It really isn’t just me that “cares”. Honestly! A truer word I’ve not spoken –> The majority of the regular people here (Rob, Lik, 2H9, Whistler, and many others) are very compassionate people. I firmly believe that each of them would give you the shirt off their backs to save you. But they’d expect you not to end up in a similar situation in the future… Metaphorically, they’d help anyone find their path, but expect them to carry themselves along it.

    You speak of ‘anger blinding Rob’ to the beauty of the reservation, but your own anger has limited your vision too. At least you recognize the vitriol and can temper it! ;)

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    employees of this blog

    Rob: BTW, where’s my W-2?

  • Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~

    Again, ad nausium, I never took Rob’s article to mean all… But you’re doing a great job of making most look “dense”. If you are an example of your people’s capacity to grasp a concept then your tribe is doomed. Thankfully, for you, the US government will always provide a handout.

    Ditto to you~~~~> Seth… If you are an example of your people’s capacity to grasp a concept then I believe they are doomed…If you are not a bigot or a racist please disregard me, and my comments. I wanted to get it out there to why some are so angry about Rob’s article. We all know all about our home. We have been told time and time again… I am, as well as others are not blind to it. When I said that on this blogg I was told it still was not enough… But whatever…Just a bunch of BF’s.. I have a very laid-back personality, and I was really surprised that I got as angry as I did. I guess I let Rob’s article get the best of me. I read where some made comments about Robs looks, or was it weight? I don’t remember. Anyway, I don’t think it was fair to judge the book by its cover.. Do you?

    Sheesh… finalize the sex change… one way or the other MELissa.

    Seth, I felt uncomfortable when likwidshoe tried to find out who I was.. I believe this is getting childish between Likwidshoe and myself. Well I will speak for myself… It is childish of me. Sorry to have offended you Seth. I know you do care..

  • Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~

    I know all about the meth users on our reservation, and others, and all around the our country. I am not disagreeing with that. I will tell you once again I am defending the slander Rob wrote about all of the us on our reservation.. He didn’t mention only some, he mentioned all… That first article he wrote is out there for many to read and that is what we will be ridiculed for. We are making changes and it will take time to see the difference, but it is happening. Are you trying to change my target Likwidshoe? My children use the same tactic.. Silly kids… I am focused on Robs article. Get used to it… Back to the target.. He did not write the whole story fairly, and if he needs to write a book, so be it… Make sure he gets the whole story… Instead of slandering us; use us for what we are trying to do… Oh yes, I forgot.. You don’t see that, only read what Rob wrote. You’re a smart, although silly little clever boy.. BTW, so you didn’t insult me by calling me a useless bitch? You need to stop harassing me.. You said it was fun trying to find out who I was… Why would that be fun… If you don’t like what my point is, you too can see my name and keep on scrolling..

  • Marilyn K

    Seth, You have it right now.
    President Bush is taking our tax dollars and our kids to fight for FREEDOM in other countries well I think he should take care of us US citizen’s first and make sure we have FREEDOM here in the US and our citizen’s have what we need. Right now he is so blinded along with the rest of the politicians they don’t see what is going on here in the US.
    Thanks Seth and 2Hotel9

  • Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~

    opps, forgot to put my name in there…

  • 2Hotel9

    I’m not laughing. You stated that criminals are being put into the US military. Prove it. Show it to me. There are reports of rape and sexual assualt in the military proportional to the general population. Show me where rapists have been given a choice of punishments. And do it now.

  • Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~

    I am not disagreeing with you on most of your article…. All we are asking for is some credit for what we are doing to help.. It is totally exhausting, physically, emotionally, and mentally. It is seems like an endless job. You did not mention that in your article. All you would have had to write is what Carrikk did. We know our reservation is far from perfect. It is how you wrote your article that got the attention from people and what got you banned from our reservation. Getting the vivid picture you painted in your article affirmed for the bigots and racists is, like I keep saying, fueling the fire. I will not back down from this until the our story is out there like yours is. If you really wanted to help Rob the least you could have do was write the whole story..

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    gullit – It is 6 billion a month and grows by 2 million each and every day.

    200 million each day. I’ll assume that one was a simple typo.

    But you see how you went on and on about it and you ended up being off by a factor of 35? That’s no small mistake. What’s kind of galling is that you threw out an obviously big number that doesn’t make sense when you run the numbers, then expected us to debunk it. Why couldn’t you just do your own research and support your own claims?

    Why do you need 2Hotel9 to verify your statements….

    What are you talking about? I was quoting you. I’ve been wondering why you are asking both 2Hotel9 and I to verify your statements. Nobody else is doing that.

    What makes you think I am a guy?

    Because most bloggers/commentors are. I figured you would be.

    This is not a game of win or lose Ike….

    No kidding. It’s just a simple debate. And one I’m smacking you around on! Too easy… Btw, I see that you’re still lost (as in, you don’t know your head from your ass).

    But it’s all in good fun. I hope you learned that you shouldn’t make outrageous claims and then demand that others prove/disprove them. You should do your own homework and support your own comments.

  • anonymous

    I’ve followed this blog for about a month regarding the Turtle Mountain reservation. Many times I’ve read others commenting on tax money, regardless if its in the original blog… the viewers are quick to comment and assume Natives and reservations don’t pay taxes. One little side note, on reservations, they still pay the gas taxes yet no money is given for the roads. That sure doesn’t make sense.

    I don’t think Hikemp is worrying about Robert Ports safety physically or emotionally… I am assuming that was in reference to emotionally protect the people you all continue to insult.

    Justin B. and likwidshoe you are both very sad unhappy people… I am sorry you live in such a sad world. And sad that so many of you hope to tear down others to sit in misery with the rest of you.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    gullit – that “moral wavers” have been granted doesn’t equal your claim.

    Here’s your claim:

    Per newsreports, American female soldiers were being raped, etc., by American male soldiers – which the news reported – lawbreakers were given the option – jail or Iraq….

    Stick to proving that.

    And only post snippets of the articles with links leading back to the source. There’s this matter of law called “fair use” that we have to follow around here. You can’t be posting the entire articles.

  • Wiyan

    link to a website from Blogger Cat West.
    http://www.walkingsky.com/restless/rsblog.html#051407

    Scroll down to find Entries

    May 17 2007 Fearing The Truth
    May 23 2007 Keeping Quiet Speaking Out

    Quotes
    “Interesting how much deliberate misreading is out there regarding the blogger that was “banned” from Turtle Mountain. I just read Doreen Yellowbird’s piece and she makes him sound like a whiner. I heard no whining.

    Saying that he was allowed to have his opinion but not express it was absolutely counter to the Bill of Rights, Constitution and common sense.

    People who have been banished (Indians and non-Indians) are done so illegally, against the rules, policies and laws set up by the Tribes that then ignore them, and without a hearing, a petition or any of those other messy trappings of fair play, I would think that with a name like “Yellowbird” she would be familiar with that particular form of injustice or at least know of instances where that happened. Maybe not.

    How many has she done on the issues of poverty? And why, when the subject is mentioned does it have to share “equal time” with all the successes? Why do the success stories not have to share equal time with the issue of poverty? Okay, who is going to “give him the facts”? Would that be Ms. Yellowbird? The topic is ‘Poverty on the Rez’: Go!

    Port never said that successes did not exist. He was talking about the undeniable poverty that is also existing and which, apparently, is the flash point.

    Banishing the person that brings the message that this is unacceptable, the conditions not right for Human Beings to have to live in, seems to be sending the message that they want it never to be spoken about. Banishing Rob Port does not alleviate the poverty he saw. But it would go along way to preventing anyone from ever mentioning it again. That should be comforting to many.

    What is wrong with discussing poverty? The more we ignore it, the worse it gets. Poverty is addressed for every other segment of society, why not on the rez?

    Why wouldn’t it? What is to stop it? What is in place to prevent it? If poverty on the rez is such an embarrassment, do something about it.

    I feel like someone has come across a traffic accident and is trying to call for help, and the people in the surrounding cars are yelling at him to stop making them look bad and also remind us all that they drive nice cars! They all start honking their horns as the victim lies bleeding on the ground.

    I did not read the entire blog entry that has caused all this uproar, but it did not seem to say that ALL Indians live in poverty, nor was he trying to make Indians look “bad”. What I got was that here, in a place that has swallowed millions of government dollars and which seems to have some successes that are highly noticeable, there is also a pocket of desperate poverty that we all should find unacceptable.

    I will be looking to see what kind of articles Ms. Yellowbird writes that deal with the subject of poverty, anywhere, and what should be done about it. Maybe that is not her thing. She is very good at championing the shiny side, and maybe that is what she should stick to. We need that as well. Seriously. We have to see what does and what is working or we lose the perspective of what we are capable of as Human Beings.

    Don’t tell me he doesn’t understand. I think he understood really well what he saw and what he was told. I think we need more people to listen when the not-so-shiny-and-pretty stuff comes up. Afterall, that might just be what is ailing our nation. Isolating the poor from someone who speaks up on their behalf is hardly making the Turtle Mountain Rez look really good in that light. But it does discourage the next person, Indian or not, from attempting to help or get help.

    It has been said that a government and a country is judged not by the wealthiest in their camp, but rather how they treat the poor, the sick and their prisoners. In other words, how we stand up for those who cannot stand up for themselves is how we leave our mark on history.

    So far, I don’t see where much is being done that will make us look good, on or off the rez. If we are not allowed to discuss it, bring it up, and are to be “penalized” for speaking up about the inequity and the injustices, then I think we can all pretty much see where we are going in this handcart.
    You know where to find me.”
    ~Cat

  • gullit

    Carrick – On the tax issue, property taxes are paid on TM reservation. The land inherited from my mother was taxable land and still is taxable land to the County of Rolette. If federal funds are dispursed to a tribally run organization, technically, federal, state (if living on the exterior boundaries) of a reservation. We pay federal, state, county taxes where I am live. If taxes are being misused, then I feel my taxes are being misused in much greater amounts in the War in Iraq. Native Americans are fighting for the US Government – why I don’t know….. It is an oxymoron. If the draft is reinstated will you be drafted???

  • Seth Yantiss

    I just checked my e-mail and WOW… the plot sure took a twist!

    LOL!

  • melsbuttisnumb.

    nice pic ha?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Melissa – Seth spent the time and explained it once again. The point is that we get your gripe. We just don’t agree with it because none of us, outside of a few Turtle Mountain Indians, took it to mean “all” as you state.

    How many times do we have to state that before you understand? You’ve been ignoring what I, Seth, Rob, and a few others have been telling you. It’s like you don’t hear us. And it’s not just you. Many of you haven’t been able to get past it.

    Maybe it’s time for us to “get used to” the fact that many of the Turtle Mountain Indians have one point and one point only and it’s the only point they’ll be making.

  • gullit

    likwidshoe – I was responding to Carrick’s comments. Taxes are being spent on the Iraq war about 7 billion dollars a day per presidential debates. The redistribution welfare – check the statistics on AFDC receipients nationwide – I believe you will be surprised… The US Government made Native Americans Citizens on our own territory I believe in 1952. Prior to that act, they fought against Native Americans for occupancy – they won – we lost – leading to a holocost. That is the oxymoron I am speaking of. Yes, Native Americans will be drafted – US Government requirement – but for a government that enforced their laws, etc., on us. I have no plans on leaving – debate is debate and suggesting I leave is cruel. From news reports, lawbreakers can chose jail or Iraq….

  • gullit

    Likwidshoe: What are the daily numbers estimated for Iraq? Did you research the AFDC receipients nationwide?

  • gullit

    This is not a game of win or lose Ike….

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    I originally was referring emotionally safety.

    Rob, I want you to be careful that the Indians on the Rez might hurt your feelings.

    Now to “Member”:

    I’ve been verbally assaulted for wanting to hear some good from people.

    I didn’t know that you could “verbally assaulted” by having people challenge your opinions. I don’t find any derogatory statements or language directed at you personally. No name calling. Just challenging your positions. But considering that you considered everything said on this site as violent hate speech, it is not a surprise that you call the comments on this thread a verbal assault.

    Do you see the hate your column has created?… I agree with freedom of speech, but when freedom of speech involves violent language, it shouldn’t be free.

    We verbally assaulted you according to your comments. Does that mean that our speech here shouldn’t be free?

  • gullit

    Proof – lol good sense of humor

  • Seth Yantiss

    Wiyan,

    I feel like someone has come across a traffic accident and is trying to call for help, and the people in the surrounding cars are yelling at him to stop making them look bad and also remind us all that they drive nice cars! They all start honking their horns as the victim lies bleeding on the ground.

    Quite apt! Thank you for your lucid comments.

    I await the inevitable labeling of you as a ‘racist’. ;)

    I hope your okay with that…

  • gullit

    Ike – Yes it is 200 million a day you are right and I am wrong… It is still an enormous amount by which I feel my taxes are being misused. Carry your own weight on debates. What I think is you are employees of this blog and need to keep up the chatter so more monies will come in by ads. Am I correct? Getting personal about not knowing my butt from my head is no debate….. Sorry

  • gullit

    lilwidshoe: The year 2004? No current appropriations are out there since then?? 2005-2006-2007 are missing. It is a big issue must be posted somewhere. I challenge you to find out if 7 Billion a day is truly wrong. No interest in researching AFDC receipients nationwide???

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Melissa – That is when Rob needs to go back, and take a good look at exactly what he wrote and fix it with the one who he hurt.

    Now why would he sugarcoat things just to assuage the delicate feelings of those who hurt themselves? Many of you keep on asking for Rob to tip-toe around people who are inserting themselves into the whole debate. To answer your demand – how about NO?

    Do you have any solutions for our poverty?

    We’ve been telling you. It’s called personal responsibility.

    Why don’t you volunteer your time and help pick the filth that Rob mentions, off of the reservation, but only if you really care.

    Why don’t you do it yourself? Again, it’s that personal responsibility concept.

    I do, and many more do too,but Rob failed to mention that.

    Now why would he have to mention any of that? Talk about a useless bitch.

    gullit – If taxes are being misused, then I feel my taxes are being misused in much greater amounts in the War in Iraq.

    Bringing up the war in Iraq on unrelated threads should be the new Godwin’s Law.

    About 19% of your federal taxes goes towards that Constitutionally mandated defense of ours. A little over 70% goes towards the redistributionist welfare programs. But don’t let a fact like that get in the way of your rant.

    Native Americans are fighting for the US Government – why I don’t know….. It is an oxymoron.

    If defending for our freedom is such an “oxymoron”, then you’re in the wrong country. And don’t give me any of that “well I was here first” bullshit. You’re not older than us. You’re in this country just like every other American. You better get used to it.

    If the draft is reinstated will you be drafted???

    If the draft is reinstated, this country (and that includes the Indians who ARE a part of it) will be in big trouble. We have a highly technical and trained armed forces these days. We no longer fight by throwing massive amounts of fresh men against an army that does the same. Instead, we do a lot more with a lot less.

  • Melissa

    My grandpa on my mom’s side was half indian. So what? It just means I’m better looking than most! 
    The reservation system is outmoded. None of the original actors are alive. There should be no more restitution, guilt or special rights. Canada’s reservations have their fare share of similar problems. If Indians would like to continue tradition, no one is going to stop them from doing it. I cannot stop people from doing things to land that is not mine and all the land in N.America does not belong to Indians. Whatever land they can acquire, they should. Do with it what you want, just like the rest of us. I have a beautiful piece of land with hills, woods, streams, the whole nine. It makes me feel amazing to walk in the woods. It is my favorite activity by far.
    I just don’t get how everyone gets huffy when opinions come out or people start talking. Everyone’s allowed to, clearly, even a nutcase like me. 
    Sparkie Arbuckle on May 20, 2007 at 06:15 pm

    You are right Sparkie, freedom of speech, but when some people start talking, and when it starts hurting more people then helping, like Robs article did. That is when Rob needs to go back, and take a good look at exactly what he wrote and fix it with the one who he hurt. I know the poverty on our land, I know things need to be changed. I know that.

  • 2Hotel9

    Where in that did it confirm criminals are being placed in the military rather than jail? And honey, I am my own employee.

  • Melissa

    I suppose, if some of our tax dollars weren’t going towards the reservation, it wouldn’t technically be my business. But since we are to some extent to blame for this situation because of the misuse of our taxes, it seems to me we have a moral duty to speak out against it.
    Carrick on May 20, 2007 at 05:43 pm

    And then what Carrick? Do you have any solutions for our poverty? There is so much we can say about how to fix it. Seems like everyone has a solution.. Even me, and many more on our reservation. Action speaks too. Why don’t you volunteer your time and help pick the filth that Rob mentions, off of the reservation, but only if you really care. I do, and many more do too,but Rob failed to mention that.

  • Melissa

    You are absolutely right Carrick! That is what we are doing.. Rob didn’t go digging there though…

  • Marilyn Knutson

    Rob,

    My sister and myself are enrolled members of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewea and we both pay taxes for what is considered “white mans” land we own on the Spirit Lake Tribal Reservation in Fort Totten North Dakota. We were both excluded for get this….
    trying to get our brother help or into treatment for his meth problem. The government created this exclusion problem now they need to take care of it. Yet from what I see you my sister or myself did not create any life threats. Yet our state and federal government are not intervening.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    2Hotel9 – Do your own research….

    Back up your claims gullit. That’s how this debating thing works. You don’t just throw out a bunch of ridiculous claims and then get to expect that they’ll be taken at face value.

    2Hotel9 – this guy is an amateur. He’s lost already.

  • gullit

    Hi 2Hotel9 – People sign up and register to enter. The news must be reporting untruths if that were the case…

  • gullit

    Per newsreports, American female soldiers were being raped, etc., by American male soldiers – which the news reported – lawbreakers were given the option – jail or Iraq….

  • andy l

    Lik. Great avatar. Is something wrong with that arm of yours? Does it need fixing? We have a great hospital here in Belcourt, I could call and make you an appointment. Would that be OK?

  • andy l

    Are you 515 years old? You’ve got beef that goes back hundreds of years! That can’t be healthy.
    likwidshoe on May 16, 2007 at 07:50 pm

    The beef doesn’t go back that far. Our beef, in this situation goes back to December 22, 2006, when the first thread was started in this sacred blog site concerning the teletubbie declaration of “appalling reservations”. Please, Lik, try to stay on task!

    By the way, like your new avatar! Does that arm need fixing? It seems to be getting away from you.

  • 2Hotel9

    Rae, you’ve proved nothing.

  • 2Hotel9

    Boss, thanks for steppin’ up. I was looking for those stats from an article I read at BBC about a month ago.

    Recruiting men and women who have served sentence and been released is quite controversial. It is not like our criminal justice system is supposed to rehabilitate citizens convicted of crimes or any such thing. And how many highschool kids have histories of mental health services and have been medicated? Damn right we don’t want any of them in the military. Yep, you are absolutely right! We only want perfect people in the military.

    So, where should we start finding these perfect people? Perhaps we should just put them in charge of everything, since they are perfect and all.

    As for Green, there were red flags all over this sociopath. Not only should he not have been in the US Army, he should not have been allowed on the streets without supervision. An entire string of people need to answer for this scumbag and his buddies.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Thank you considering I am a man… you Freak..

    Egh! Really? Well someone shares your name.

    Why do you have a woman’s name? Freak. Your parents should have picked something more manly, like Susan or something.

    Hah.

  • gullit

    Andy – Are you reading my comments… I am curious what your thoughts are on them…. Thanks

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Rob asked, Rae, you’ve proved me wrong? How?

    Good question. After all, it was RaeMarie70 who had this to say:

    Nobody is saying he didn’t tell it like it was. You guys just don’t get it. I have asked over and over again how anybody on this blog is trying to rectify the wrongs on reservations.

    Then he says this:

    I, along with many others, have already proven Rob wrong.

    Nobody will accuse RaeMarie70 of consistency.

    (Now watch the insults flow! :) )

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Melissa A.. – If you wanted to who I was why not ask.

    Didn’t really want to know. I just had fun looking.

    I am sure the person you thought was me appreciates you peeking at her Life.. Mel..

    I am sure she is too. She is one of those people who advertises herself on one of those social networking sites. All sorts of information that I don’t think kids should put out there (she’s not a kid, but close enough). She’s part of the “e generation” that puts everything online and is comfortable with doing so. It’s weird because my generation doesn’t do that, even though we’re just a few years older. My generation didn’t grow up with every kid having a cell phone and ubiquitous Internet. It’s a quickly changing tech world and I find myself having a hard time relating to those who are just 7 or 10 years younger. They quite literally grew up in a different world.

    I had thought that she might be you. Some of your writing habits made me think that it was quite possible that I was right. In any regard, I wouldn’t put her info here it wasn’t posted here.

    Btw – five kids? Damn. I couldn’t imagine. Congrats on surviving that and I mean that in a good way. Kids are loud messy creatures.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Good for you Rob…. At our expence…. Are you proud of yourself?

    You’re not a victim of Rob’s.

    I guess my fellow members were right.. You are in this for the fame.. That is horrible..

    More assumptions.

    Stop bitching and write about the good things. You’ve got the audience and you’re all but guaranteed a big readership considering where you’re from. What’s stopping you?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    rae.. Hair.. Melissa A

    Hmmm…you’re not bad lookin’

    Good clues!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    “Melissa ~~~melsbuttisnumb~~~” – Getting the vivid picture you painted in your article affirmed for the bigots and racists is, like I keep saying, fueling the fire.

    So you’re blaming Rob for the actions (or potential actions) of other people. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Just hold people responsible for their own behavior.

    I will not back down from this until the our story is out there like yours is.

    So far the only story that you and others have posted is that you don’t think Rob’s article is fair. Something that we’ve already known for a month now.

    If you really wanted to help Rob the least you could have do was write the whole story..

    How come you don’t respond when I point out that every other article does the same thing? Including this one? And this one?

    Maybe you realize that it’s dangerous to acknowledge that last point. It shows how silly your complaint really is.

  • Seth Yantiss

    better name?

    Expressly juvenile!

    Look MELissa, you being a guy or a chick, or whatever, makes NO difference to most of us. 2H9, Lik, Rob, Proof, Wistler, FagnumPI, R108, Sparkie, etc… We really don’t care what color, race, creed, sex, sexual orientation, etc, you are… we just don’t care! What we care about is integrity, honesty, and and exchange of ideas. We challenge EVERYTHING! and we have some very definite, set-in-stone ideals along the lines of “be responsible for yourself”…

    If you agree with that basic tenant, then you’ll get along with us all, just fine.

    If you try to shift blame to people who don’t deserve it, we call you on it. It’s really just that simple.

  • Melissa A..

    Yeah Seth, did you see Melissa’s comment? She just copied and pasted one of her old ones – and get this – it reasserted many of the things you have already addressed.

    I’ve said that I don’t think that applies to ALL of you… but it keeps coming up.

    People like Andrew and Melissa are systemically incapable of grasping that point right there. They bring it up again and again and again and again…

    likwidshoe on May 18, 2007 at 02:47 pm

    Finally, you are sick of hearing this… I got my point across.. Is it not tiring to hear the same thing over and over again! Imagine living your life having to defend yourself, your family, your friends, your tribal members over and over again and again… We are good people.. Maybe Rob does care. Don’t know.. It sure is an odd way of showing it. Oh some people!! Rob knew what he was doing when he wrote that article, manipulators always have strategies. He just didn’t know that The Turtle Mountain Natives would stick together like we are. He underestimated us.. BTW, Rob is not the first to do that. Later Gaters……. Melissa

    Hey Rae, Do you know Who I am? just answer yes or no

  • 2Hotel9

    FKFL, anyone with even modest intelligence should be nervous about having any dealings with the USG. It has provided ample examples of how it keeps faith on its treaties.

    Rae, I put you on the “10 Word” protocol the 3rd time you posted here. Read your comment 10 words in, if it is the same old same old stop reading.

    Sign up for a readerblog and prove Rob wrong or shut up. That simple.

  • Intheknow

    Maybe he should make a guess as to how many households it actually is true about like what 1%,5%,10%,30% or what would he guess. and does he know exactly how many people are living on the Reservation… or does he just say a lot of things without knowing much about it?

    I think he enjoys all the attention that his column has brought to him. Imagine needing to remind anyone that he will be on some second rate radio show in Grand Forks. What a laugh… I wanna know when he will be doing Oprah.

  • Ron

    that excuses the fact that their community is awash in welfare.
    hmm last time i checked the majority of people on welfare where white ass punk trailer trash whores u know like ur mom likwidshoe i read alot of stuff you put on here u should just keep ur fucking comments to urself

  • Ron

    You know you only spent 15 hours there you dumbass you pissed alot of people off what about an open apology to the reservation and its people my self i am from the Turtle Mountains and about the threat damn right and there will prolly be more from alot of people man

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Frustration hightens (sic)!

    Nah! Petty, tinhorn and typically gutless mouthbreathers like you pass through all the time!

    Oh we can refute their/your arguments, but they’re/you’re too stubborn to recognize when that happens.

    You lefties have got more projection than a Cineplex!

  • Melissa A..

    Structure, consistence are two of the most important factors I follow consistently… It is hard work, but well worth it.. They are awesome children.. Likwidshoe, you make yourself sound so old… hmmm

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Btw, this was a forgotten story until you guys brought it into the mainstream. Fame? You’ve got to be kidding. Over 16,000 articles haven’t brought this much attention. Some have come fairly close, but this was the big one.

    You hear that? YOU GUYS are the ones who made this article popular. Pat yourselves on the back and thank you.

  • gullit

    Escalation Forces Bush to Resort to Recruiting Convicts

    By Robin Morgan, Women’s Media Center. Posted January 22, 2007.

    Escalating the war in Iraq means the military will grant more “moral waivers” — permitting recruits with criminal records and emotional problems who would otherwise be unfit to serve.
    Trained to Harm: How the Military Abuses Its Own
    JoAnn Wypijewski Green’s alleged “followers” face courts martial on various charges, and they may be allowed to plead to lesser counts and punishments; so far one has been convicted and sentenced. But Green’s trial is federal, in U.S. District Court, since his well-timed discharge means he isn’t the military’s problem. In effect, Green seems to have been legally triaged. As the WMC’s on-site reporter noted, Green, who pled “not guilty,” is represented only by the Louisville public defenders’ office. Yet, oddly, the prosecution team includes Brian D. Skaret of the U.S. Department of Justice Domestic Security Section, in Washington, DC.–a section primarily charged with prosecuting smuggling, border violations, and foreign nationals accused of supporting terrorists. Is Washington that eager to ensure that culpability for these crimes won’t be traced back to the Pentagon or White House?
    Col. Elspeth Cameron Ritchie, psychiatry counsel to the Army Surgeon General, defends treatment policies for emotionally or psychologically distressed soldiers, but won’t discuss Green — nor will the 101st Airborne Division. According to documents viewed by the AP, when Lt. Col. Elizabeth Bowler — an Army reservist psychiatrist who took over the Combat Stress Team in January — recommended Green’s discharge, her final evaluation stated: “Green exhibited no traits that would indicate dangerously erratic or homicidal moods.”

    This was after the rape-murders-burnings, and despite Green’s cries for help. The military — especially the Army and Marines, with the most personnel in Iraq — has been criticized for sending troops diagnosed mentally and emotionally unfit back to combat duty, often under medication prescribed for too short a time to have taken effect.

    As for moral waivers, instead of dropping them entirely — as morality would dictate — the Pentagon issued new guidelines in November. Some prevent personnel with certain “pre-existing mental problems” from deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan (but not elsewhere), and: “Mental illnesses that are not expected to be resolved in one year will be cause for discharge.” One year? Green was on active duty for less than one year. Weep not only for Iraqi civilians. Weep for ourselves. Social scientists have repeatedly charted how post-war domestic-violence rates soar, as returning vets (including those who started out sane) try to cope with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder plus reflexes trained to react with lethal force. Spousal battery, marital rape, child sexual abuse, child battery, homicides, and suicides rise precipitously in the wake of wars — especially those with intense ground combat and high casualties. Less than a month ago, between Christmas and New Year’s 2006, five U.S. soldiers committed suicide upon being informed they’d been ordered to serve an additional tour in Iraq.

    Bush keeps warning, “If we don’t fight ‘em in Iraq, we’ll have to fight ‘em here at home.” Presumably, he means the pre-U.S.-invasion, nonexistent terrorists in Iraq, not our own armed forces. But given his escalation, his hunger to sacrifice more lives, his extended active-duty tours, and his continuing “moral waivers,” what behavior might we really expect when those 547,000 GIs and 202,000 Marines eventually return home?

  • Melissa A..

    Andy, I believe he was taking a jab me because of what I wrote about Rob’s sidekick Likwidshoe.. You are making your point Andy.. Don’t let some of these people bring you down… Melissa

  • Melissa A..

    So.. Tell me about you all.. Or would you like for me to dig…. and take a peek…

  • Dirk Gently

    Ah, the Jerkoff recognizes himeself! They say that’s the starting point to recovery!
    -Goof on May 17, 2007 at 04:30 pm
    Frustration takes it’s toll and Goof starts talking to himself.

  • funnyman

    Geez, no comments about the 15 hour trailerpark report? You know that was funny. You guys are so serious. I’d like to see this Rob feller go door to door in Compton, CA or to the Bronks in NY and ask them how they feel about their “living conditions”. Wonder if he’d even last 15 hours.

  • Melissa A..

    likwidshoe…
    If you wanted to who I was why not ask. I am a 40 year old with five children.. Worked all my life.. wonderful home and family.. Grew up on the TM reservation. The hair thing is because I do have a head full… not thinning yet! Anything else before you start digging up on someone else. I am sure the person you thought was me appreciates you peeking at her Life.. Mel..

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Melissa A.. – do you have Tourettes? You’re repeating your comments across different threads. For some reason, you seem to think that it is okay to make wild claims and not provide any evidence.

    Hah. andy l is just pissed because he came here, almost immediately made threats, and now people see him for the bully he is.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Whistler, It is a fact that not everyone who lives on the Turtle Mountains reservation lives in poverty, but Rob failed to write that..

    Are you blind? He’s said that at least 20 times now.

    Damn…we’re dealing with some really DUMB people around here.

  • gullit

    That was in response to below comments:

    Back up your claims gullit. That’s how this debating thing works. You don’t just throw out a bunch of ridiculous claims and then get to expect that they’ll be taken at face value.

    But it’s all in good fun. I hope you learned that you shouldn’t make outrageous claims and then demand that others prove/disprove them. You should do your own homework and support your own comments.

    likwidshoe on May 21, 2007 at 07:17 am
    =====================================================
    Per above – Rob does that mean we should not necessarily take news being reported as being necessarily true??

  • gullit

    Andrew – I accept your apology and I am a female blogger. I do agree there is some truth in what Rob reported. Tribal people have voted on issues as not allowing felons to run for tribal office, removal/banishment as a means of controlling the drug distribution within the reservation, the catholic church as become more people friendly. The moral standards of the younger generation has been lowered. Children enrolled only under the mother’s tribal blood quantum are ineligible for many of the educational benefits. Eligibility for benefits is limited to 1/4 or more degree Indian blood. Children should not have to suffer the consequences of the poor decisions of parents but they do. If you were the tribal chair what would you propose to do?

  • Melissa A..

    Seth, Did you read this?

    Rob, Rob, Rob… In your own words

    Which is a sad commentary in and of itself, but rampant unemployment aside the simple reality of the conditions these people are living in is even more amazing. I saw kids playing outside, on a day when the temperature was just below freezing, in shorts and bare feet (though they were wearing parkas). I met people living in homes with broken out windows and nothing but a piece of plywood or some plastic stretched over them to keep out the cold. I saw homes with dozens of abandoned vehicles around them, and took in smells emitting from some of the doors that were opened to me that brought tears to my eyes. Inside the homes I saw mountains of unwashed dishes, mounds of unwashed clothes, overflowing trash cans, walls literally dripping with nicotine from the constant smoking and throughout it all children playing in the reek.
    And the people living in these homes were as disappointing as the homes themselves. I met people who were drunk (or high or something) at noon, even as their children played in the road and on the twisted, sharp metal of abandoned cars. I saw a visibly pregnant mother smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer. I met a woman who was 29 years old and already a grandmother (to no fewer than three grandchildren) thanks to both her and her daughter’s young pregnancies. I met men and women, fathers and mothers, who had spent more of their lives in prison then out of prison. I met entire families whose only source of income seemed to be from stealing or selling drugs plus whatever they got from the government in terms of assistance. it goes on but could not fit all on here.

    OMG!!! He makes every members of the Turtle Mountain Tribe out to be uncaring pigs, and he wonders why we don’t care for him much… Use your common sense Rob! I pray that when my children are out and about, they will not be taunted by all of your half truth words you wrote… Did you think about them Rob? My innocent children! They are who I live my life for… You have labeled them before they have any chance in this festering world… I am doing everything I can to make them wonderful people, they are our future. I feel I need to defend them because of YOU!! I am not the only parent who feels raped by your comments. You have abused your welcome on our reservation… Stay away from us… If you didn’t mean the whole reservation Rob, you should have mentioned so.. Any other good reporter would have…
    Are there any reporters who have a reputation on fairness, accuracy, and honesty?? Send them my way… One Angry Momma Indian, Melissa A

    I am still trying to get my point through Seth… He named all of us.. He did not say some people he wrote “these people”. we agree on some of what you wrote above,but I am still trying to get the point out… What Rob wrote is uncalled for. It is a dirty shame he leads his readers to the assumptions that everyone lives like he says he witnessed.It is hard to know who to trust on this blog. It you are truly sincere, I thank you for caring, and the advice.. I do appreciate it. Melissa

  • Seth Yantiss

    Melissa,

    Yes, I read it (if you use the “Quote” button it shows the text differently so we can tell what part is a quote.

    I thought that you were over-reacting with

    “OMG!!! He makes every members of the Turtle Mountain Tribe out to be uncaring pigs, and he wonders why we don’t care for him much…”

    I am still trying to get my point through Seth… He named all of us.. He did not say some people he wrote “these people”.

    The word “These” doesn’t apply to everyone on the reservation. It applies to the people he described.

    I know you want to make the point that the was naming all of you, but that’s NOT the way *I* read it and I don’t think that’s how he meant it… He’s said as much over and over.

    we agree on some of what you wrote above,but I am still trying to get the point out… What Rob wrote is uncalled for.

    I get that, I just don’t see it as the horror that you see it as. I don’t see it as uncalled for. I think that too many people would rather sweep their dirt under the rug than deal with it.

    It is a dirty shame he leads his readers to the assumptions that everyone lives like he says he witnessed.

    And, again, he didn’t. Many people have said the same thing. We don’t think it applies to all or even MOST of you. Some! We ALL can agree that what Rob wrote applies to SOME… right?

    It is hard to know who to trust on this blog. It you are truly sincere, I thank you for caring, and the advice.. I do appreciate it. Melissa

    I am truly sincere! I have no bias against you or anyone else on the reservation or anywhere else for that matter. I approach people as individuals not as a group.

    The very first response to Rob was from Faith
    Rob’s response was very cordial… don’t you think?

    Then “The Wistler” responded with a very supportive post.

    It started going down hill with Judge V and Dawn Decoteau

    But you can follow the time line for yourself if you want to…

  • andy l

    Yup, someone like Andy L will spash your name and location all over the place and label you a racist.

    Seth, grow up! Quit trying to make issue with me. You were talking with Melissa, right? Well, why bring my name up? Take a stab at me? Are you sure you need to do that? For what purpose? To make you feel more like a man?

  • andy l

    People like Andrew and Melissa are systemically incapable of grasping that point right there. They bring it up again and again and again and again…
    likwidshoe on May 18, 2007 at 02:47 pm

    We only keep bringing the same issue up over and over and over, because you just don’t get it! You really need help lik! Come to the rez, we’ll help you! Garsh, I’ll even take up a collection for transportation for you if you’re strapped for money. And, don’t worry, us Indians are giving people, we’ll even feed you and put you up in one of our hotels! What about it?

  • Seth Yantiss

    Melissa,

    I appreciate that you’re willing to talk about the problems. I don’t think we disagree with too much, however… I disagree with trying to hide a negative aspect of civilization. I think you have over-reacted to Rob’s column. I think you have a perception of how outsiders see your culture that is not entirely accurate. As I have said before, I never did and still do not think that all native Americans live in squalor. The percentage is higher on the reservation than off, right? There’s no harm is stating that, is there?

    I think we see some things very closely. See if you agree with this:

    “Some people make poor choices”

    If you agree then we move to the next point:

    “Handouts allow people to keep making poor choices”

    Still agree? How about:

    “People who never aspire for greatness will never achieve it?”

    None of this is directed at any specific people… it applies to all people. Living on the government teat begets servitude (and resentment)…

  • RonD

    Man im so tired of readin these comments there are alot of people who think this about the rez he pointed out what he saw thats all i saw it before just was use to it i guess

  • Melissa A..

    Whistler, It is a fact that not everyone who lives on the Turtle Mountains reservation lives in poverty, but Rob failed to write that..
    Are you blind? He’s said that at least 20 times now.
    Damn…we’re dealing with some really DUMB people around here.
    likwidshoe on May 18, 2007 at 09:06 am

    One of Rob’s sidekicks, likwidshoe, He didn’t in the original article he wrote.. That is my point.. You don’t like it? Too bad for you! Go criticize on to the next blogger!

  • gullit

    likwidshoe – Here is one article posted on the web:

    Rape kits expose nearly 200 female US soldiers report being raped by fellow troops in Iraq

    “Nearly 200 U.S. women soldiers have sought assistance . . . saying they were assaulted by fellow troops.”

    Miles Moffeit
    Denver Post
    July 15, 2004

    Sexual-assault organizations across the country are shipping rape-evidence collection kits to each member of Congress in hopes that more of the investigative tools will end up in the war zone to help troops who are victimized.

    That move is in response to growing concerns among victim-rights leaders and several lawmakers that not enough kits are available to help soldiers. Nearly 200 U.S. women soldiers have sought assistance from civilian rape-crisis agencies since the war started, saying they were assaulted by fellow troops. Many have reported their cases were mishandled, in part because of inadequate forensic and medical treatment.

    “We’ve got to get more attention on this issue,” said Rita Smith, director of the Denver-based National Coalition Against Domestic Violence. “If we send people into an unsafe environment, they need to be protected.”

    Pentagon leaders have declined to discuss whether a shortage of the collection kits exists, with a spokesman saying only that “there are rape kits available in theater” at three combat-support hospitals.

    Rep. Carolyn Maloney, D-N.Y., and other women lawmakers say Defense Department officials need to be more candid about whether supplies are adequate to serve victims.

    But all members of Congress, which oversees the military, must understand how crucial the kits are in investigating cases and preserving evidence, according to leaders of state sex- assault coalitions.

    “Part of the thought process is that most people have never seen them or understand why they should be used,” said Kristen Houser, vice president of the National Alliance to End Sexual Violence. “When you say ‘rape kit,’ it doesn’t mean a lot to some people. The presence of these kits in their offices, we hope, will help wake some people up.”

    A rape kit generally consists of testing supplies for blood and other bodily fluids – swabs and combs to collect DNA evidence left on the victim’s body following a rape. If evidence is collected from a victim rapidly enough, it can bolster the chances for prosecution.

    The word from Capitol Hill, so far, is that the mailing effort is bound to make a statement.

    “It’s an effective tool in establishing whether a sexual assault happened,” said Angela de Rocha, spokesman for Sen. Wayne Allard, R-Colo., who has worked on behalf of Air Force Academy cadets to ensure their cases are properly investigated.

    Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y., who has led a legislative effort to draft uniform policies for the handling of sexual assault cases in the military, said a massive effort to educate the military is needed over the short term and long haul.

    “If we don’t create a climate where women feel comfortable reporting their crimes to the military, they’ll never come forward to get the rape kit,” Slaughter said. “That needs to happen.”

  • Vanilla Ice

    Indian Rock!!!! I love all of you. Lets get along and go halfsies on a bingo packet.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Yeah Seth, did you see Melissa’s comment? She just copied and pasted one of her old ones – and get this – it reasserted many of the things you have already addressed.

    I’ve said that I don’t think that applies to ALL of you… but it keeps coming up.

    People like Andrew and Melissa are systemically incapable of grasping that point right there. They bring it up again and again and again and again…

  • Melissa A..

    I don’t know how to fix everyone’s problems. We can talk until we are blue in the face to adults who we think are at fault. I think if we show a good example for them to follow… Action speaks louder than words. I have seen changes just by doing that.
    I am new to this blog thing.. I don’t know if it is a good idea for me to open one up just yet because there is so much anger and hurt by this article that some may write with angry thoughts.. You know what would happen next don’t you? People like likwidshoe would make accusations and twist and turn their words around.. Some won’t need any twisting to make their point loud and clear and I don’t want that to happen either. It would be bittersweet to get our tribal members to get together on the net and tell all, but I don’t think right now is a good time.. I have to admit when Rob’s article came out I was not shock, but insulted, and humiliated, I was hurt, I was hurt for the innocent children who will be looked upon as “these people”. It is the reputation we have. I have lived with it all my life with people’s misconception about how we live. There are people who actually believe we still live in tents.. I worked on a military base (as a civilian ) and was asked many, many question on how I grew up.. Some thought we still lived like our ancestor did 100 years ago.. One of my fellow workers who I worked with for a year was shocked to learn I was married.. I asked her why she thought that. Her reply was.. Well I thought Indians didn’t get married and just had children with whoever.. She was dead serious..
    I guess I am tired of all the misconceptions and to have to prove once again that we are civilized people. Poverty is a problem throughout our country throughout the world.. Government money is spent throughout the country. For Rob to point at our little tribe is unfortunate for us.. We will now be recognized as uncaring pigs. The damage is done with his original article.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Rob also failed to write that there are not armadillo’s on the Turtle Mountain Reservation.

    I demand a retraction! :)

  • Seth Yantiss

    Lisa, the bigot wrote:

    melissa don’t worry Rob is the perfect race,religion,moraly perfect,intelectualy too,probably +++,and he thinks he has the answer to every thing and one.

    I know you’ll not believe me Lisa, but Rob doesn’t point out his race and have NEVER claimed that his genetic makeup makes him superior to anyone else.

    Rob has, on more posts than I can recall, specifically stated that race is NOT a determining factor in success.

    Lisa, just so you understand, there is NO genetic predisposition to success. All races have close enough IQ, brain capacity, physical development, etc to be able to compete with each other.

    Every year there are fewer people that believe in racial superiority and that should be celebrated!

    You, however, feel the need to cling to racial discrimination. How very sad!!!!

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Proof, you have to wonder why they don’t want the reservation discussed.

  • andy l

    You, however, feel the need to cling to racial discrimination. How very sad!!!!
    Seth Yantiss on May 18, 2007 at 09:48 am

    Seth, get this. Appreciating heritage, understanding your culture, believing in your inherent makeup is not discrimination. Just because we don’t have the same protocols, ethics, values, and cultural upbringing as you does not mean we have a need to cling to racial discrimination. Being different is important! Acculturation? Assimilation? Native peoples have fought against those concepts for years! What makes your culture and systems so superior?

    You know, Seth? Our people have resisted assimilation for years, decades. Nothing will change that. Other races and nationalities embrace assimilation and acculturation, that’s the difference. We have always resisted, and always will.

  • Ron

    Well it is all good that u where banished from The rez cause you know and I know if you where not banished and went back well lets say you wouldnt have a good time….

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    gullit, you gotta repeat the question. I left to go get some lunch and by the time I got back, there were like 50 more responses. If it is this one:

    Does the 10% include the illegal immigrants from Mexico? The conditions you describe for Mexico sounds similiar to conditions on tribal reservations and in Iraq. In all faireness, the Bush Administration has/is being accused of corruption, fraud, etc., “makes you wonder” doesn’t it.

    Yes. The entire population of Mexico is between 100-120M people last I checked. Of those 120M, 12M are living in the US illegally. Now all of these numbers are estimated and the ranges vary, but the net is that we are educating and caring for about 10% of their population directly and another huge portion indirectly through money transfers back to Mexico by both citizens, legal residents, and illegals. If we booted the illegals out, the economy of Mexico would collapse because of the lack of money coming back.

    Now, second part–I find it hard to respond to a claim that:

    in Iraq. In all faireness, the Bush Administration has/is being accused of corruption, fraud, etc., “makes you wonder” doesn’t it.

    I imagine that the folks accusing the Bush administration of corruption have not heard of the Oil for Food program or the money that Saddam and the Baathists stole from the Iraqi people to buy weapons and line personal bank accounts. It is like comparing Russia’s purge of 20M+ people to our internment of the Japanese during WWII. Both wrong, but orders of magnitude different.

  • Dirk Gently

    By the way, Jerkoff, you’re the one who advocates killing those whose arguments you cannot refute. Douche bag!
    -Goof on May 17, 2007 at 04:33 pm

    Frustration hightens!

    Oh we can refute their/your arguments, but they’re/you’re too stubborn to recognize when that happens.

    BTW: Why the picture of Mark Twain Goof? Is it supposed to signify some kind of irony? Mark Twain was a ‘leftie’. Your choice in avatar must be accidental or you have a pretty good sense of humor.

  • Ron

    No he would not make it long and I dont know what houses he went too on the rez but not everyone of them are like that like i said before im from the Turtle Mountains I wasnt raised in the projects both my parents had jobs didnt drink there are so much people on the turtle mountain rez that are like that idk u just need to say sorry

  • Melissa A..

    getting a little hot under the collar there JD..
    Melissa

  • Melissa A..

    Seth what is that all about? I did not write that…

  • andy l

    BTW, Andy, do you ever listen to yourself speak? Your convoluted doublespeak is purely Clintonian.
    (Depends on what your definition of “truth” is!)
    Proof on May 26, 2007 at 06:54 pm

    Proof, gotta hand it to you. Your statement was great doublespeak. Keep trying to define me, idiot. Have at it. Doesn’t matter to me.

  • Melissa A..

    I am simply saying it is not as bad as Rob made it out to be..
    Seth you are right, Rob did make a poor choice, and everybody does have choice on how they live.. I choose not to let misconceptions be the main forces on how we live.. I also choose not to let Robs version of how we live settle into the minds of his readers… It is unfair to all.. Yes, it is poor on parts of the reservation… NOT ALL… Rob, its nice to see you out from the back of your sidekicks….

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    I don’t know of many problems involving a large number of people that are solved without discussion.

  • andy l

    Lik, when I see your avatar, I can’t stop from wondering, where did you get those long arms?

  • 2Hotel9

    So? Leftards are good for something?

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Justin, I see your point, why can’t you see mine? I am a 53 year old Indian man, a grandfather, a family man. I am also a traditional man. I have a sweatlodge, am a sundancer and live a spiritual life. One of my priorities, and a focus of my life, is to improve life on my reservation in any way possible. There are many of us, who live on reservations that strive for good, for prosperity, for a good life for all. It is not easy. I never said it was. Success will not happen over nite… We have solutions, but no one is asking. These solutions are complex and many of them need to be worked out tribally.

    I agree that we cannot fully understand the dynamics that will fix the problem. My bigger issue is that so many places, the tribal leaders are corrupt, enrich themselves at the expense of their tribes and ignore the real problems by selectively enforcing the law and turning the other way from real problems while focusing instead on things like racism and stereotypes–like the commenters here seem to.

    I don’t think that the reservations are able to fix themselves. I know this seems ignorant or patronizing, and it is not meant to. As whites, we have an absolute requirement to fix what WE BROKE. The tribes are not completely responsible for what goes on on the reservations. Whites have to take accountability for creating this dysfunctional system in the first place that has ultimately led to the misery and suffering that Rob describes.

    So now we get to the answer. Tribes need more help and resources than just their own to fix this. You cannot do it in a bubble. And we have a responsibility then to ensure that we are spending our time to fix things, not simply perpetuating the current problems by throwing more money, grants, and resources at the currently broken reservation system. Maybe the answer is not termination, but the stranglehold of poverty, drugs, and tribal corruption that has existed for a half a dozen or more generations must be broken.

    And understand that the purpose of this entire discussion was to bring light to the fact that there are REAL AND SERIOUS PROBLEMS. Most whites don’t see it from the ivory towers and wealthy cities that we live in. I do. And it breaks my heart to see guys so drunk they are staggering into traffic at 9:00 AM when I drive across the Apache Rez in Arizona or poverty and unemployment so bad that Leonard Gregg stated a 500,000 acre wildfire because he could not find a job other than as a part time firefighter.

    I know it bothers many Indians to hear whites criticize the reservation system, but we are impacted by it too. And some of actually want to see these stereotypes and the poverty and despair disappear, not simply be ignored. So many of the folks here would prefer that we simply ignore it and keep our nose out of Indian business.

  • RaeMarie70

    Andrew, I applaud you. You did a nice job of apologizing. It is nice to see that people can remain calm even when they disagree.

  • azcowpoke

    it just shows that one can write or do whatever but you can have consequences due to it

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    anonymous – Many times I’ve read others commenting on tax money, regardless if its in the original blog… the viewers are quick to comment and assume Natives and reservations don’t pay taxes.

    WHERE? Point it out. A few of you have asserted this and not a one of you have ever pointed it out when asked.

    I am assuming that was in reference to emotionally protect the people you all continue to insult.

    How is that going to work? Rob’s still going to write and you guys just can’t help but to read it. All of that has nothing to do with his actual physical presence on the reservation.

    Justin B. and likwidshoe you are both very sad unhappy people… I am sorry you live in such a sad world.

    I’m sad and unhappy because I mercilessly tear apart the welfare state? Whatever. You’re sad for supporting it.

    And sad that so many of you hope to tear down others to sit in misery with the rest of you.

    It’s sad that you sit there and defend the poverty. Are you doing that because you hope to tear down others to sit in the misery with you? I wonder.

  • jd

    “Is that it JD?

    You are way off the subject… Is that what you want me to do? Stop bringing up my point… You don’t like so change the subject.. Hhmmm might work on someone else, but not me… I know all to well.. I have children who try to do the same thing.. Change the subject when they know they are wrong… Its okay though, I do understand, we are all human….. ”

    No, it is not it.
    No, I am fine with your point and I am fine with you bringing up anything you like. Also I am not changing the subject. My first post to you simply asked to take it easy with the periods. I never changed from then on. Never brought up the price of gas, never brought up the war, never brought up the super great 80 degree day today. I alsways stuck on the same note of asking you to ease off the periods.

    Here, let me relate to you the only way you understand:

    99% of the human population knows that when you use ONE period, that it means you are at the end of a sentence……… We do no need multiple periods to understand that……….. Here is a good website to check out http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/periods.asp
    There are many other tips there for you as well as the period rules……………. Thanks…………..

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    I am aware of our poverty.. I don’t need Rob, nor anyone else to point it out, and to feed to you all.

    You are right, you probably live down the street or around folks that live in poverty. So you see it. But most whites do not. The article was to draw attention to the problems. Writing about the good points may make folks feel better, but it does nothing to help fix the problem other than keep things from being too negative.

    And it sure got folks talking and generated interest in the problem. Maybe Rob got his 15 minutes of fame as so many say. When his 15 minutes are over, does his article inspire you to make changes? He never has to go to the Rez again, and can’t I might add. What would another independent person not from there think if they walked the streets of the rez? What would they notice? When that immediate perception from someone not from there goes away, then folks like us won’t have stereotypes of the community anymore.

  • 2Hotel9

    “We all know that not everyone
    on the reservation lives the way I described. The point is that a lot do,
    and we need to do something about it.”

    No, Rob. They need to do something about it. No one else can do it for them.

  • gullit

    Andrew – that was an uncalled for remark….why would you sterotype me just for blogging… Perhaps you might think about that…

  • lisa

    melissa don’t worry Rob is the perfect race,religion,moraly perfect,intelectualy too,probably +++,and he thinks he has the answer to every thing and one.

  • Melissa A..

    I am upset about how Rob labeled all of us from the Turtle Mountain Tribe. He is a dramatizer. He wanted a story and to make a point…. I believe the point he was trying to make was spending government money… That is fine with me, but what he wrote about our living conditions was horrible and untrue for the majority of us who live on the Turtle Mountain reservation.. He led his readers to believe that is how everyone lives on the Turtle Mountain reservation… That is so untrue! It is not bad enough that fingers are pointed our way because of the way we look… dark hair, olive skin.. Now because Rob painted this picture that “these people” live like he wrote, it made me sick.. I teach my children, nieces, and nephews to accept everyone for who they are, and to help whenever they can.. I teach them to put themselves in their shoes. . I am so proud of them!! I have learned that from my elders, and passed it on to my family as they will to theirs… Rob didn’t say anything good about our reservation. That is why so many of us are angry. We are clean people with morels, ethics, and a lot of love. We know the poverty on our reservation. It is not a pretty picture, but it is not as nasty and gross he makes it out to be… If he did see children playing outside without shoes on extremely cold conditions why didn’t he give them shoes… Oh, I know it is not his place to do that, but I would have… I have seen the same thing off of the reservation.. Yes, I did bring them shoes, coats and whatever else the children needed… If he saw dirty houses and the children playing around the filth, why didn’t he call social services… That is the thing to do… If Rob witness drugs and alcohol use why didn’t he call the police? That is the thing to do… All Rob did was write a wonderful article to fuel the bigots and racists… I don’t see how this will help his issue with government spending. He hurt a lot of people, and sometimes that hurt turns into anger.. Yes I am angry. I am angry because Rob labeled me, my friends, and he crossed the line labeling our innocent children! Of course his followers don’t see my point because they are focused on Rob’s half truths..

    JD, when I put and exclamation mark in(!) I want to make sure you know I am making a point.. If I double it, well I want to make sure the message is clear… a few periods in a row means I am done with what I wrote and letting what ever my reader is reading sink in… quotation marks “these people” his words not mine.. I hope that helps you when you are reading what I write.. If that is not correct enough for you maybe when you see something I write you can skip it and go on to the next bloger..Melissa A.

  • Melissa A..

    Is that it JD?

    You are way off the subject… Is that what you want me to do? Stop bringing up my point… You don’t like so change the subject.. Hhmmm might work on someone else, but not me… I know all to well.. I have children who try to do the same thing.. Change the subject when they know they are wrong… Its okay though, I do understand, we are all human…..

  • jd

    “JD, when I put and exclamation mark in(!) I want to make sure you know I am making a point..”

    So if you don’t have an “!” you are not making a point.

    “If I double it, well I want to make sure the message is clear…”

    Oh, like you are really mad, so you put two “!”. Ok, I get that.

    “a few periods in a row means I am done with what I wrote and letting what ever my reader is reading sink in…

    I would think 99% of the human race is ok with reading the one “.” as the end of your thoughts. Corrdect me if I am wrong, just my thoughts.

    “quotation marks “these people” his words not mine..”

    I never said a word about you using quotation marks.

    “I hope that helps you when you are reading what I write.. If that is not correct enough for you maybe when you see something I write you can skip it and go on to the next bloger..”

    Thanks.

  • Melissa A..

    Whistler, But he did… Quotation from Rob “those people” He did mean all.. You know it.. Maybe you should read it again…

    Lisa, watch yourself on here, some twist and turn our words around.. We are with the best of the best manipulators.

  • Melissa A..

    Whistler, who do you not think is sincere?

  • Melissa A..

    Whistler, It is a fact that not everyone who lives on the Turtle Mountains reservation lives in poverty, but Rob failed to write that.. He also did NOT write what our people are doing to solve our poverty. Got it? It is what he led his readers to believe.. “those people” You know it and We know it.. Like I said he is adding fuel to the fire of the bigots and racists…. Where did Rob clarify anything about how the whole reservation lives.. I would really like to read it.. Melissa A.

  • Melissa A..

    I see.. Changing the subject again… BTW, This is my way of writing and getting my point across… Like I said before, I do understand.. We are all different, but let me remind you all, one way is not the right way…

  • 2Hotel9

    Melissa, then blog about wildflowers first. About kids getting out of school soon. Anything. Its part of the name on purpose.

  • Dirk Gently

    What I find strange is that Rob somehow felt that it was his duty to point out the faults he *perceived* to be true in some kind of arrogant display of white power. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not accusing you of being in the KKK, but I am accusing you of being somewhat racist, although unintentionally. Before you get your panties in a bunch let me explain.

    Do you know those people who feel it necessary to feed and educate all the ‘impoverished’ brown peoples of the world? They feel it’s their duty as privileged, white, Euro-descended Christians to show the savage brown peoples how to live their lives. Who else is to show these lazy, backwards, savages “The Way” if not for the mighty white man with his gumption, industriousness, technology and piousness?

    When the brown peoples of the world are not living up to or do not want to live up to the privileged, white, Euro-descended Christian standards there is this *perception* that something is wrong. The privileged, white, Euro-descended Christians will arrogantly set these brown peoples strait by endlessly forcing and enforcing the white man standards, no matter how poorly these standards fit into the preexisting culture which they are trying to change. This is done with the faulty presumption that the white man way is THE ONE TRUE WAY to live.

    Rob is one of these misguided people.

    There are countless numbers of different cultures in this world. What are the chances that the privileged, white, Euro-descended Christian way of life is the one and only way to live? No chance at all. Face the facts; there is no one “RIGHT” way to live.

    Who is Rob to tell these people how to live (other than the fact that he *feels* it’s his duty as a [delusional] powerful, influential, white man)? Wouldn’t you think there had been enough whites in the past few hundred years to tell these people how to live? Why do they need another moonshine bumpkin asshole to tell them how to live? They don’t. It’s not Rob’s duty.

    For those who read my whole post-
    Congratulations. You don’t have the attention span of a fish.

  • gullit

    Andrew – forgot to add – yes I do work. I do feel you owe me an apology for assuming or sterotyping people.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Seth, did you get the message I sent you last night… You were pointing at the wrong person… I did not write what you hightlighted… Melissa

    No Melissa, and if I did that (which is possible for sure), I apologize! If you have a link to the post, I’ll gladly go and correct the reference to you!!!

    As for the social issues on the Res, it’s all very similar to what we discuss more generically for the US: Some have the opinion that they are not responsible for their actions or behavior. They feel the need to place blame on others rather than take responsibility for themselves. It’s nice that you help the children of others, but the best help is in teaching other adults how to provide for their children.

    One person can go door to door in a community to fix problems, but isn’t it better if the adults behind each door were fixing their own problems? It’s a lot more efficient!!!

    Of the poor on the Reservation, how many adults do you talk to to try and convince them to improve their own lives?

    Would you post a reader blog entry on this topic?

  • RaeMarie70

    Good luck getting the apology, guilt. There are very few bloggers on here who would think it above themselves to apologize for an hurtful comment.

    Yesterday, someone called people “welfare animals” and “leeches” and doesn’t see anything wrong with it. Instead of admitting it was out of line, he said that the people earned it. Nice, huh?

  • gullit

    Justin B – A storeowner in Lodge Grass, MT, asked a Native American Elder “You Indians always seem to have money. Where do you get it.” The Elder answered “you killed your God, we still have ours…”

  • 2Hotel9

    Melissa, why don’t you start a readerblog here and tell us and show us the good things happening there? That is kinda what this blog thing is all about.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Amazing how that seems to have ended the conversation…

    Weird!!

  • Funnyguy

    I can’t wait for the 15 hour report on “The lifestyles of Trailerpark Living in Tennessee”. If it stirs things up like this “report” has, THEN it’ll get exciting.

    I lived near the Crow Reservation and played football against Hardin when I lived in Billings. Reservations are scary places.

    Good thing Justin doesn’t have to put up with this fear while living in Phoenix, going to one of his Basketball games.

  • Melissa A..

    Perhaps he didn’t feel that he needed to tell you, but rather people that don’t visit the reservations or even live there how bleak some people live. I guess he painted a vivid image so that we just don’t sit around and say “oh that’s too bad.”

    Whistler, Rob failed to write that it was only some lived like that.. He failed to write we do help our surrounding neighbors.. You are assuming we are sitting around and doing nothing…. There it is again Rob… Read what he read into your article…. More fuel for him…

    He never said it was the whole story either. Jeez, we’re talking about a few hundred words in a single post. When asked he admitted that wasn’t the whole story.
    Of course when you’re cars broken down you don’t tell the mechanic what’s working right. <~~~whistler?? What is that all about………

    Whistler, can you find out when Rob will finish and how he plans to write the truth since he is banned from the Turtle Mountain Reservation? Rob really needs to put down the flames…

  • Dirk Gently

    Rob,
    You are both part cause and part symptom. They don’t NEED a bumpkin like you telling them “what’s best” for them. You best option would be for you and your arrogance to stay out of issues beyond your understanding.

  • RaeMarie70

    The fallacy of your statement is that EVERYONE else can say the exact same thing. Who are you to tell me that your position is the correct one?

    Right back at you–Who are you tell me that I am incorrect? I am using the definition of harassment based on personnel policies. I never said anyone had to agree or disagree with me. I can feel any way I like and nothing you say can change that.

    Everyone CAN say the same thing. It is what they think and feel. No person has the right to tell someone else what to think or feel. Have I ever said anything that would make somthing think otherwise. Unlike most of you, I am not here to rant and rave about how horrible another culture or life style is or how much someone is taking from the government. I am here to defend what I think is a good place, where most people are good, most people are caring, and most people look out for the interests of others.

  • Melissa A..

    Again, what I am trying to get through your narrow thoughts is that Rob exaggerated. He made it sound as though everyone lives like pigs on the reservation.. I have seen the poor.. I have help the poor on, and off our reservation. We do have wonderful, intelligent, people on the reservation who care… I am aware of our poverty.. I don’t need Rob, nor anyone else to point it out, and to feed to you all.. Rob did not write anything positive about the reservation! It is NOT as bad as he made it out to be.. He could not see through his bitterness… We are doing what we can to better our community.. But Ron, one man, didn’t write that down.. He doesn’t know by just spending 15 hours on our reservation what our good people do… So negative toward our reservation…

  • gullit

    What happened to Justin B. – I am still waiting for some response to my questions..

  • Melissa A..

    Melissa,
    No person has the right to tell someone else what to think or feel. Have I ever said anything that would make somthing think otherwise.
    Interesting that you should be telling Rob what to write, how to write it, or what to think about the Res…
    Seth Yantiss on May 17, 2007 at 05:08 pm
    Seth, You are pointing at the wrong person… I did not write that….
    Melissa A.. on May 17, 2007 at 05:17 pm
    http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/media_alert_my_banishment_from_the_turtle_mountain_indian_reservation_makes/

  • jd

    “Rob, No you didn’t create the conditions. You separated yourself from “these people” like they were infesting puss… Can you not see what you have started… Honestly Rob… I am sicken by this… I am tired of defending because of who we are and where we are from… Your article fed the bigots fuel.. Look what they are writing.. Both sides… You got it all wrong… Admit it… It was harsh and unfair to many of us… ”

    OMG Melissa! Please fix your keyboard. You must have an issue with the “.” key.

  • halatbis

    Rob, it looks like you have struck a sensitive topic that needs some real serious examination by our press and certainly by congress. Where is Dorgan in all of this? He seems to be around when there is money to hand to people and votes to gather in.
    From the comments I have read about this matter it appears that people have little knowledge and understanding of the Indian reservation system and the workings of tribal government–and I am included in that group. I will say that the media has done nothing to help us understand what is going on there. I will also say that they are afraid to touch the issue–the thing that scares our MSM the most is that they will be called “racist”. That is the greatest fear of our liberal friends–to be perceived as racist.
    Good work, Rob! This issue needs fresh air.

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Good thing Justin doesn’t have to put up with this fear while living in Phoenix, going to one of his Basketball games.

    Are you serious? Ever heard of the Gila or Salt River Reservations?

    http://www.saltriver.pima-maricopa.nsn.us/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gila_River_Indian_Community

    Give you a hint about both of these–they are physically located within the boundries of Phoenix. The Pima Indian has the highest rate of diabetes in the world. These folks have massive Casinos that advertise all over the valley:

    Like the Casino Arizona Pavilion:

    With soaring glass walls, a 12×20 foot video screen and over 14,000 square feet of indoor space, the new Casino Arizona Pavilion creates a grand entrance to the “all new” U·S Airways Center that leaves a lasting impression on all guests.

    The reservation was not a scary place in the sense that I was fearful, it was scary how bad things were. Perhaps I didn’t clarify.

    But here in Phoenix, our tribes have enough money to sponsor a “pavilion”. Yet their unemployment situation and poverty situation isn’t that much different from Turtle Mountain.

    Located in south-central Arizona, the SRPMIC (population 8,500) is adjacent to the rapidly growing Maricopa County Cities of Scottsdale, Tempe, Fountain Hills, and Mesa. Tribal members represent two pre-American sovereign tribes, the Pima and the Maricopa. Unemployment and poverty rates in the tribal community are approximately 20 and 40 percent, respectively. These rates are in stark contrast to those in the neighboring non-tribal communities.

    The important thing to remember is that it isn’t just Turtle Mountain. Go on any Rez in the country, even the one adjacent to the fastest growing city in the country located within the fastest growing county in the country sporting a 3% unemployment rate and the unemployment rate on the Rez is 20% and the poverty rate is 40%. If poverty and unemployment are ubiquitous despite tribes being radically different culturally and located in completely different geographic areas with completely different leadership, how can we not draw the conclusion that the problems are systemic to the reservation system as a whole as opposed to local problems that can be fixed with minor incremental changes to local reservations?

  • Seth Yantiss

    Melissa,

    Thank you for being civil, if not rational.

    I am simply saying it is not as bad as Rob made it out to be..

    Well, do tell. How many are like Rob described? How many are not?

    Seth you are right, Rob did make a poor choice, and everybody does have choice on how they live..

    I have no doubt that you know I was not talking about Rob, but whatever. All choices have consequences and parents who choose to not care for their young will face consequences of those choices. I complain about others choices when the affect me. I point them out to my kids when I see an opportunity for a lesson.

    I choose not to let misconceptions be the main forces on how we live..

    It sure seems like you get insulted too easily for this statement to be true, but okay… good for you.

    I also choose not to let Robs version of how we live settle into the minds of his readers…

    I read Rob’s article and thought of “some”… Not all.

    It is unfair to all..

    No… It’s unfair to NONE. If it’s true that some live like Rob described, then it’s not unfair at all. It’s the truth that “SOME” live like that. How is that unfair?

  • andy l

    It is much easier to attack all of us as bigots than take a good hard look at the tribe members that Rob described and face the facts that these folks are the reason that you feel discriminated against, put down, and stereotyped. Instead you attack Rob for telling the truth about these very folks and would rather defend them than condemn their actions.
    Justin B. on May 17, 2007 at 11:51 am

    Justin, I see your point, why can’t you see mine? I am a 53 year old Indian man, a grandfather, a family man. I am also a traditional man. I have a sweatlodge, am a sundancer and live a spiritual life. One of my priorities, and a focus of my life, is to improve life on my reservation in any way possible. There are many of us, who live on reservations that strive for good, for prosperity, for a good life for all. It is not easy. I never said it was. Success will not happen over nite. But, the article written by Rob Port and published in the Dakota Beacon is indefensible. Rob’s accusations are implausible, unbelievable. His so-called solution is worse! Termination. It’s been tried. Didn’t work. Ask the Menominee people in Wisconsin.

    We have solutions, but no one is asking. These solutions are complex and many of them need to be worked out tribally. To explain these things to anyone in a blog site such as this would be impossible. Rob is just getting his 15 minutes of fame. Sounds like a fair trade for 15 hours of “Window Peeping”.

    Anyway, enough said.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Lik,

    Seth – you don’t get. Because Indians pay taxes, that excuses the fact that their community is awash in welfare.

    yeah, I know… but SRS really wanted to talk about it. :)

  • StandingRockSon

    my taxable liability was over 5K this year.

  • Cat

    That the poverty has been so long ignored in the PR of these tribes (there are more, trust me) and then when someone addresses the poverty as an issue, they are thrown off the land because they didn’t comment on the well-to-do side of things, is boggling.

    Had the entry also included the well-to-do side of the tribe, the contrast might have been much more horrific.

    People should know what substandard conditions are being hidden from us all and we should all carry the burden of righting that wrong.

    However, taking away the home and banning from the rez anyone that speaks out as a danger to the tribe or as someone bashing what remains of native dignity is a crock.

    Concealing the poverty is the shame. Outing it gives everyone a chance to do something about it. To make this sound racist is stupid.

    That it may reveal inequities in the distribution of funds, or even corruption is not racist. It is how we end corruption and give voice to those who have nothing.

    And who now have lost a voice of concern because he is considered as dangerous as drugs to the Tribal Council of Turtle Mountain.

    The logical question needs to be asked: Millions of dollars of Tax MOney (everyone’s tax $$) and casino money goes into the rez. HOW is it being used? Who is controlling it?

    Perhaps that is the question being raised that is so “shameful” and which so “disgraces” the elite and comfortable of the Turtle Mountain Tribe who then say they are defending and protecting the dignity of all indians by silencing a voice of question.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Rae,

    Who are you to decide whether or not I should hold the biases that I do? When you have lived my life, then we will talk about.

    The fallacy of your statement is that EVERYONE else can say the exact same thing. Who are you to tell me that your position is the correct one?

  • RaeMarie70

    Seth – you don’t get. Because Indians pay taxes, that excuses the fact that their community is awash in welfare.

    lik, you don’t get it. You seem to think because you pay taxes, it excuses you to be judgemental and condescending to those who don’t follow your conservative view.

    See the logic there? Me neither!

  • Melissa

    OMG!!! You make every member of the Turtle Mountain Tribe out to be uncaring pigs, and you wonder why we don’t care for you much… Use your common sense Rob! I pray that when my children are out and about, they will not be taunted by all of your half truth words you wrote… Did you think about them Rob? My innocent children! They are who I live my life for… You have labeled them before they have any chance in this festering world… I am doing everything I can to make them wonderful people, they are our future. I feel I need to defend them because of YOU!! I am not the only parent who feels raped by your comments. You have abused your welcome on our reservation… Stay away from us… If you didn’t mean the whole reservation Rob, you should have mentioned so.. Any other good reporter would have… Are there any reporters who have a reputation on fairness, accuracy, and honesty?? Send them my way… Oh, by the way Rob… I don’t want to hear from your sidekicks… It is obvious they want to keep kicking us when we are down… I want answers from you….

    One Angry Indian Momma , Melissa A.

  • StandingRockSon

    likwidshoe is simply someone not of this discussion, as such i have tried to keep my attention on the rest of you.

  • gullit

    Justin B – Thanks for responding to my comment on role models. Clinton, Depp or Boyance did not grow up in a Native American Community. I would not expect for them to return. What I do wish would happen is for them to speak to the Native American youths on how they became successful regardless of diversity. Tribal reservations are close knit communities and tribal members feel secure within their own lands. Why some return to the reservation might be to aid/assist others become more self-sufficient by utilizing the education, etc., gained off the reservation. Future predictions are the minority will become the majority (Hispanic). From what I gather Mexico feels California, Texas was wrongfully taken from them by the US Government. Do you feel that civil war is possible in the future by the Hispanics/Mexicans?????

  • Andrew

    What I don’t get is all the ‘Native’ Americans shouting “White man” at everyone. Most of them are part white (many 50-75%). So really, shouldn’t they blame their own ancestors for breaking treaties made with their other ancestors? But no, this has to be some other white man’s fault because that’s more convenient.

  • andy l

    I’ve just read this thread with great interest and sadness. Banishment has always been law with our people, even before any of our laws were written. Banishment is also included in our Tribal Consititution. Our tribe has banished people from their lands for time immemorial. The exclusion ordinance was developed a couple of years ago to deal with the increase of drug use on our reservation and because there is a jurisdictional void on our reservation when it comes to prosecuting non-Indians for drug related violations of tribal law. The exclusion process was developed to establish a process for exclusion on that basis. Our tribe has always had inherent authority to banish any individual from tribal lands, whether Indian or non-Indian.

    The argument over Rob’s implausible claims made in the Beacon article is tiring. What is angering people is the “solution” offered by Rob to correct the problem. Abolishing reservations is not a solution, never was. Termination was tried in the 50′s and 60′s. Didn’t work. Tribal people suffered accross the country. Ask any Menominee in Wisconsin about termination. Find out the truth.

    Termination, is it a Republican agenda? How many republicans in North Dakota actually agree with Rob Port? Why publish the crazy filth in the first place? Why not figure out ways to work with tribe’s to improve situations, instead of destroying the integrity of an entire tribe and then rushing toward 15 minutes of fame in the blog world?

    What? Rob, is your advertising revenue going up now, because you’ve riled up the Indians? Well, guess what, we don’t care. If that’s your agenda, and you need to pay your bills, so be it.

    Just to let you know we will never forget you and we will never forgive you. We will pity you, though. Many of us already are.

  • Pilgrim

    This has been an interesting thread and, other than the observations that I’ve already made, I should probably stay out of it but I have to comment on a couple of things. It’s a character flaw of mine.

    Andy said:

    Rhetoric spewed by the likes of likwidshoe and others does not help and only serves to broaden the anger and deflect from real and substantial solutions.

    Blind anger at someone who pointed out some of the problems there does not help either.

    Melissa has a passionate and rather eloquent rant about those very conditions a couple of comments above. My question to that would be – if it’s right for her to point out the degree of tragedy in those lives, why is it wrong for someone else from outside the tribe to do so? Are critical observations the sole province of the group in question?

    The word “racist” is being flung around a good deal in this thread. Is observing a problem or a situation and commenting on your observations an automatic qualification as a racist? To use the word as a weapon in a dispute discredits an argument from the start. The word becomes meaningless. Win your points without the crutch of the racist lable.

    And I wonder which would be more of a racist attitude: seeing a situation like Melissa describes above and making critical comments about it in hope of perhaps starting someone on a road to a solution OR: Seeing that situation and thinking, “Let ‘em rot. It’s not my problem.”

    Just asking.

  • Seth Yantiss

    Melissa,

    Right on! I apologize! The response should have been directed at RaeMarie70 from this post.

  • Dirk Gently

    Here’s some advice to the people who are attempting to argue with Rob and his tiresome flock:

    Don’t even bother. They are some of the best examples of the worst of humanity. They’re arrogant, vain, stubborn, greedy, puerile, intentionally offensive, shallow, ill-informed, assholes.

    Save your breath. Pretend they don’t exist. Nothing you say will cure them of their personality disorders, especially when discussing issues set, by them, on an online chat forum. You’re only feeding the fire.

    But don’t get me wrong; if you happen upon one of these Conservative assholes in a dark alley feel free to throttle their little necks till their heads pop off. The more you snuff out the merrier.

    Good luck.

  • Pilgrim

    Wow, Rob….

    You certainly have stirred some passions here. AND got yourself banned from a tiny corner of your state. All because you expressed an opinion in a column. Isn’t that what every writer should do?

    Exciting opinion, pissing people off, get accused of racism and insensitivity….hmmmm.

    Good job.

  • Melissa A.

    Racist based on notions and stereotypes related to race..
    Rob, Rob, Rob… In your own words….

    Which is a sad commentary in and of itself, but rampant unemployment aside the simple reality of the conditions these people are living in is even more amazing. I saw kids playing outside, on a day when the temperature was just below freezing, in shorts and bare feet (though they were wearing parkas). I met people living in homes with broken out windows and nothing but a piece of plywood or some plastic stretched over them to keep out the cold. I saw homes with dozens of abandoned vehicles around them, and took in smells emitting from some of the doors that were opened to me that brought tears to my eyes. Inside the homes I saw mountains of unwashed dishes, mounds of unwashed clothes, overflowing trash cans, walls literally dripping with nicotine from the constant smoking and throughout it all children playing in the reek.
    And the people living in these homes were as disappointing as the homes themselves. I met people who were drunk (or high or something) at noon, even as their children played in the road and on the twisted, sharp metal of abandoned cars. I saw a visibly pregnant mother smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer. I met a woman who was 29 years old and already a grandmother (to no fewer than three grandchildren) thanks to both her and her daughter’s young pregnancies. I met men and women, fathers and mothers, who had spent more of their lives in prison then out of prison. I met entire families whose only source of income seemed to be from stealing or selling drugs plus whatever they got from the government in terms of assistance.

    You specifically pointed out “these people”. Get the whole story Rob.. If you think you did, you need to point it out…. Where is it? Prove it! You have insulted every one of us Rob.. Some of your sidekicks want us to stop whining! Never! I will not stop defending innocent children, and innocent hard working Navive Americans… Racists thrive on negative attributes about Native Americans, and pass that on to their children… It keeps going on and on…. I need to teach my children to defend themselves against people like you.. Sad to say! We Indian women will keep having children to keep our breed going… I can bet you don’t like that, do you Rob? We work hard to teach them value, morels, high ethics, and Love…. We also work hard to support them financially…. The government money for education, health, we get is owed to us.. It was a deal made a time ago.. Deal with it! We have pride you will never comprehend.. You are like the blind leading the blind when it comes to Native Americans… Melissa A.

  • andy l

    So the chances of ending the reservation system are in my opinion slim and none. That saddens me because I truly believe that would be best for all parties. Still it is not my decisions, but I won’t not say what I think about it.
    The Whistler on May 17, 2007 at 08:17 am

    At least you’re responding now. The so-called “solution” – ending the reservation system will not work. It’s been tried before. Termination era, 50′s and 60′s. Ask any Menominee and they will tell you about the effects of ending a reservation system. There are solutions out there, but not “ending the reservation system”. The solutions are already being actively and agressively taken up by progressive and responsible individual team members within each of our tribes and also with individual groups and organizations from off-reservation entities that are willing to roll up their sleeves and help.

    Rhetoric spewed by the likes of likwidshoe and others does not help and only serves to broaden the anger and deflect from real and substantial solutions.

  • Andrew

    What happened to Justin B.

    Probably this little thing called a ‘job’. Or are you one of the 2/3 without one?

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    You specifically pointed out “these people”. Get the whole story Rob.. If you think you did, you need to point it out…. Where is it? Prove it! You have insulted every one of us Rob.

    Why did Rob insult you and your people? I am inclined to say that the people that Rob is ACCURATELY DESCRIBING that are Tribe Members are the ones that A. Insulted your people by living the way they do and B. Are the ones that need your anger, rage, resentment, Tribal Petitions, etc. They are the ones that are insulting. Rob is simply pointing out that they exist.

    Do these people exist? How many of them that Rob described are there? Are you defending them and their choices and lifestyles simply because they have the same Tribal Affiliation? What if they weren’t tribe members and engaged in these actions, would you defend their actions?

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    What is angering people is the “solution” offered by Rob to correct the problem. Abolishing reservations is not a solution, never was.

    While I think the reservation system is bad for the Native Americans I think that the decision to abolish them lies with the Tribes themselves.

    Other than some enabling legislation by Congress we have to let the decisions be made by the tribes.

    So the chances of ending the reservation system are in my opinion slim and none. That saddens me because I truly believe that would be best for all parties. Still it is not my decisions, but I won’t not say what I think about it.

  • Melissa A..

    Dirk, I believe you had Rob squeezing his butt cheeks. Funny…..

  • Seth Yantiss

    Melissa,

    Robs statements are not racist. If Rob had been in another part of the country and described similar circumstances, would you consider it racial?

    It’s not about RACE, it’s about CHOICE!

    Get over yourself.

    There are people all over the country that make the same poor choices. It’s wrong on the reservations and it’s wrong off of the reservation.

  • http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

    Future predictions are the minority will become the majority (Hispanic). From what I gather Mexico feels California, Texas was wrongfully taken from them by the US Government. Do you feel that civil war is possible in the future by the Hispanics/Mexicans?????

    No need for a civil war because they are well represented politically and we are by and large a free society that believes in the rule of law. Mexico has a population of about 100M people. Currently, 10% of the total Mexican citizens live in the US. 10%. And they send all kinds of money back to Mexico. They are so dissatisfied with the corruption of Mexico and the education, unemployment, and healthcare situation that they risk death to come here. Why would they want to take steps to assert their alleged ownership of the US and subject it to control of the same Mexican government that corrupted and destroyed Mexico?

  • Pilgrim

    By the way, it looks to me like the conditions there are getting a huge amount of attention because of Rob’s column. Can that be all bad?

    It seems to me that the smart thing would be to seize the issue while it’s hot and move toward a solution to the mess Melissa describes.

    Instead of crucifying the writer, that is.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/sparkiearbuckle sayanything-81

    Rob

    Curtis, can you cite an example of racist language from my original column? Or anything I’ve written?

    This is the thing. No one will do that. Despite the hundreds of racist accusations, no one will cite what they consider to be the racist content. Also, notably, last night Misty, who is from the rezzy, admitted she doesn’t find it to be racist. She just faults you for not writing about stuff you didn’t see. Makes sense to me… not.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    What’s funny is that I rarely go to the TM reservation. Their ban isn’t really going to change anything. My blog will still be here, and unless the tribe has the ability to censor the internet folks on the reservation will still be able to read.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Do you see the hate your column has created?

    I didn’t create any hate. I expressed a political opinion, and now apparently some people hate me for it. But I didn’t create that hate, people are choosing to hate me.

    I, personally, don’t hate anyone. Indians, specifically.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Member of Turtle Mountain, what “violent” speech did my original column, the one I’ve been “banned” for, contain?

    What “violent” speech has any of my comments about the reservation contained? None.

    You claim to support free speech but you don’t because you support a ban for someone simply because you disagree with him/her.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Curtis, this is the link.

    The column is at the bottom of that post under “Original Column.”

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    I covered the whole military wavers/criminals in the military thing a while ago. It’s a bogus argument.

    Gullit, if you want to talk about Iraq go to one of the myriad of posts on this blog about that subject. This thread is long enough, we don’t need to veer off onto a debate on Iraq.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    What? Is this an explecitive now? Never was before! Only when Andy uses it to demonstrate what was said many times before by Rob’s boys to describe Indian women?

    No, you technically illiterate lout, it happens when anyone writes a curse word now.

    And I’d like you to link to any instance when anyone on this site called Indian women whores. Since you’re so adamant that this happened, prove it, or apologize for lying.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Dirk, I believe you had Rob squeezing his butt cheeks.

    Huh?!?!?!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Andy,

    The reservation system, as you call it, may not be perfect from your point of view, but that’s exactly where the problem lies, it’s your point of view. The Turtle Mountain reservation is all our people got out of the deal that is called the 10 cent treaty, hammered out at gunpoint. Our people starved to death under gunpoint.

    So why do you want to perpetuate a treaty that put your people on reservations to starve and die at gunpoint? The reservations weren’t created for your benefit, they were created for the benefit of white settlers.

    So why not end the cruel segregation? You seem to detest the fact that your people were put on reservations, but now you don’t want your people to come off them.

    You keep saying that I’m out for the destruction of your way of life, but I’m not. I’m all for you keeping your sweatlodges and your way of life. Honor your heritage. Be who you are. But why perpetuate a system that has your people segregated to little pockets of land in the middle of nowhere?

    Coming off the reservation doesn’t mean a destruction of your way of life, it means a better life.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    last I checked, I pay taxes just like everyone else. I don’t know what you’re all talking about when you assume Natives don’t pay taxes.