Say Anything Blog

All the pissen-n-moanin should be put to rest. Vote for a Democrat if you think that makes any sense.

There are swing voters out there who don’t need any help making the wrong decision. You can trash McCain along with the MSM after the election.

Rob says:

Impressive, if not exactly satisfying for conservatives.

Politics rarely is (satisfying).

I’d alos like to second what Mickey says. Voting for McCain is the only rational conservative choice at this point, if only because the alternatives are worse. If and when he gets elected, trash him along with the media for his every misstep. How is staying home going to get a better result?

I think my major theme of this campaign is that I have the judgment to lead.  And you gain that ability and capability with years of experience, knowledge, background and being engaged.

I would never announce that I was going to sit down with the president of Iran, who would then walk out of the meeting and then perhaps articulate his country’s policy of the extermination of the state of Israel. I would never sit down without preconditions with Raul Castro, who was the executioner and the jailer for thousands of political prisoners in Cuba, and thereby giving him more legitimacy. Those kinds of things, frankly, are a product of inexperience.

John McCain, as quoted by the New York Times here.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

I have plenty of reasons to vote for McCain over Obama.  It’s not about principle, it’s about politics and political outcomes.  But then again I never was into that conservatism purity test that started showing up after the 2002 elections.

I can’t support Obama because of the choices he would make on the supreme court. 

I can’t support him because he wants to cut science funding and use it to increase teachers salaries unconditionally.

I can’t support Obama because of his old “New Deal” (aka socialistic) economics ideas.

I can’t support Obama because he would throw away our gains in Iraq because he’s too stupid to understand the importance of staying.

And I could go on.  The list is about a mile long now.

Mickey, Seth et.al.,

And so it is.

Four years of deception under Clinton would be nearly unbearable. With Obama, you would obtain an undeniable meliorist whose puzzling rhetoric would be rewarded a grand prize at a Chaucerian festival, but would not place him in the top 40 of American presidents.

Or you can vote for a liberal.

To paraphrase Michelle: for the first time in my adult life I am truly despondent over the choices.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another…it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
                                  Saint-Exupéry

If McCain does not win the election you can say goodbye to Federalism and hello to Socialism.  That really is your choice.

One of the most important talents for success in politics is the ability to make utter nonsense sound not only plausible but inspiring. Barack Obama has that talent. We will be lucky if we escape the catastrophes into which other countries have been led by leaders with that same charismatic talent.
-Thomas Sowell

I hope the Dems lose, but I still won’t vote for McCain.  He’s a wolf in conservative clothing and all of you can oo-rah! and pat each other on the back, but you will be bitching about him in one year.  At least it took GWBush 4 1/2 years to thoroughly disgust me.  McCain will trash conservatives from day one on his throne, but all of you Republicans will be happy because the Dhimmicrat didn’t win.  Wow.  Great strategy for happiness, that identity politics thing. 

You nominally conservatives have given people like me grief over the past half-year over my decision not to vote by party, but I suspect that y’all will be the group that bitches the most when McCain stabs you all in the back.  Congratu-fookin-lations!  You did it to yourselves.

You will all do as you see fit, as I expect you to.

I fully expect the Leftists to do what Leftists do.

I can completely foresee that McCain will continue to do what he has been doing with increasing regularity since 2000—screwing Conservative America.

You can play the Faithful Ho and help him screw us.

My greatest hope will be that the remaining Republicans and conservative Democrats will see the folly of Hillaboma’s agendas and do their best to block those plans from coming into actual law, just as the Dems did so effectively while they were in exile.  (a hard-corps minority cannot enact its own legislation, but can effectively block a lot of it from being made into law)

I choose not to help him to screw Conservative America. 

That is all.

...for great justice

Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America’s self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant.” —Ann Coulter, P. 16

http://i44.tinypic.com/t89p3s.jpg[/IMG]”]

AMERICANS FOR TRUTH

NO PRIDE. LV

MASS RESISTANCE

THE PINK SWASTIKA

skh.pcola, that is a pretty lame argument I have to say.

Most of us who are voting for McCain aren’t doing so simply out of party identification.  We see it in our interests to do so, the same as you see it not in yours.

The odd thing about you anti-McCain types is how you seem to willing to impugn the character and motives of people who don’t agree with your judgement.  I obviously think you’re all wet about the particulars, or I wouldn’t be voting the way I am.

Who gave you grief by the way?  I remember none of that.

Carrick,

The odd thing about you anti-McCain types is how you seem to willing to impugn the character and motives of people who don’t agree with your judgement

My problem with McCain has been with his politics and I have no desire to malign anyone who sees him as their choice of Commander in Chief.

For this and other reasons, my selfish preference would be McCain, though I will not vote for him.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another…it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
                                  Saint-Exupéry

C: I think the way to play McCain is to make him win over the conservatives to win the election(play “hard to get”), then hold his feet to the fire during his entire administration.  We have to do the work, even to the extent of going after his opponent(because McCain probably won’t).

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

docdave,

If McCain does not win the election you can say goodbye to Federalism and hello to Socialism.  That really is your choice.

That is too simplistic and you know it.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another…it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
                                  Saint-Exupéry

If you choose not to vote for John McCain, then so be it. But do the rest of us a favor. Stop the repetitive attacks, character assassinations, negative record-analysis’ and predictions of doom-and-gloom which have been directed at the man for the last four month on this blog. The anti-McCain crowd has had its say. That battle is over.

The rest of us support John McCain for president and we will work hard to make it happen. If you’re not willing to help, then at least get out of the way.

DocDave is exactly right. Never have we had two democrats whose Alinsky-style socialist credentials and proposals were more liberal or further to the left. What Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton will do in the next four years will be an assault on the Constitution, federalism and your personal liberties, the likes of which we have never seen… starting with the Supreme Court, extending to the war on terrorism and ending with gun control… all with the blessings of an expanded liberal majority in Congress.
If you cannot bring yourself to vote for or support John McCain, then vote to deny  liberalism greater access to power.

“Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other vews.

William F. Buckley Jr.

Wither thou goest O once proud gop?

Telling one lie or even consistently lying about one subject…doesn’t make you a liar…

robert108 on May 18, 2009 at 03:23 pm

“You have absolutely no reason, none, to trust our word or our actions at this point.”

Titular gop Head Mr. Steele

It shouldn’t be long now that McCain is your gop candidate that Mann Coulter whips out it’s campaign ads for Hillary.

That is what it promised on the Hannity show my friends.

Telling one lie or even consistently lying about one subject…doesn’t make you a liar…

robert108 on May 18, 2009 at 03:23 pm

“You have absolutely no reason, none, to trust our word or our actions at this point.”

Titular gop Head Mr. Steele

I would never announce that I was going to sit down with the president of Iran, … Raul Castro… Those kinds of things, frankly, are a product of inexperience.[/quote]

---

Telling one lie or even consistently lying about one subject…doesn’t make you a liar…

robert108 on May 18, 2009 at 03:23 pm

“You have absolutely no reason, none, to trust our word or our actions at this point.”

Titular gop Head Mr. Steele

---

If you choose not to vote for John McCain, then so be it. But do the rest of us a favor. Stop the repetitive attacks, character assassinations, negative record-analysis’ and predictions of doom-and-gloom which have been directed at the man for the last four month on this blog. The anti-McCain crowd has had its say. That battle is over.

No offense it is a free world and we have free speech so I wouldn’t lecuture people that don’t like or despise Sen McCain.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Telling the truth about McCain’s voting record is not an “attack”; it is something for him to explain to those whose votes he needs to win.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Let me get this right, Obama’s middle name and admitted drug use is off limits and now McCain’s record is off limits.

Who gets to decide these things?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Telling the truth about McCain’s voting record is not an “attack”; it is something for him to explain to those whose votes he needs to win.

Not everything said by the critiques of McCain fall into this category.

Misrepresenting his voting record by cherry picking only certain votes to discuss is. The same goes for quoting him out of context.  The same goes for prognosticating the future and telling us how he would (mis-)behave as president, then trying to pass that off as fact.

I try and produce a fair and balanced viewpoint on people, even people like Obama that I would never vote for.  I don’t think taking extreme views is consistent with what I would regard a true conservative ideology.

Not everything said by the critiques of McCain fall into this category.

Imperfect human beings acting imperfectly; what a concept!
In general, I find those who constantly scream “attack!” about legitimate criticisms and concerns about McCain to be non-credible, and regard them as the majority in this case.
Just recently, McCain threw Bill Cunningham under the bus, in his haste to apologize to Obama and Hillary!(why did he apologize to Hillary?)

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Robert108:

In general, I find those who constantly scream “attack!” about legitimate criticisms and concerns about McCain to be non-credible, and regard them as the majority in this case.

Now you’re just rationalizing away poor behavior.  Given the hundreds of comments critical of McCain, how many counter examples of “attack!” can you find.

I don’t find Cunningham’s explanation for why he used Obama’s middle name credible.  If you do, contact me about a bridge I have for sale.

John McCain is the real deal. His speech last night was a brilliant delineation of principles that even Rush Limbaugh could understand - maybe not Willie Cunningham.

The Mopes of MSNBC once again pulled down their own britches - especially the Geek-in-Chief Olbermann.

http://hickeysite.blogspot.com/2008/03/john-mccain-johnmccain-runs-table-wins.html

Misrepresenting his voting record by cherry picking only certain votes to discuss is. The same goes for quoting him out of context.

Is it unfair to criticize him for his support of:

Illegal Immigration?
Democrats blocking qualified judicial nominees?
Banning political speech by non-elites?
Wrecking the economy with a euro style carbon cap and trade scheme?

Is it misquoting him by pointing out that he sounded like the Democrats when he said the Bush tax cuts went too much to the wealthy?  (Because he apparently had other concerns?)

Is it unfair to point out that he acted inappropriately benefiting a donor, specifically Charles Keating? 

Was it over the line to point out that he didn’t deny he had meetings with Tom Daschle to switch parties, only saying that he never really considered doing so?

I need to know these things in order to be able to do my job around here?

At least with Obama we know to merely stay away from his middle name, his background and his voting record.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

John McCain is the real deal. His speech last night was a brilliant delineation of principles that even Rush Limbaugh could understand

Talk’s cheap.  Can we look at his record please?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Talk’s cheap. Can we look at his record please?

By that you mean, only if you get to cherry pick which parts to look at.

Given the hundreds of comments critical of McCain, how many counter examples of “attack!” can you find.

How many comments has pp made on this subject, on this blog alone?  More than that, every comment I have heard about Rush’s so-called “attacks” on McCain are also untrue.  This may be hard for you to hear, but there are a lot of conservatives who McCain has offended over the past decade or so.  He has it coming.  All it means, as I said before, is that it’s up to him to win us over; his past actions have consequences.  I never said he was all bad, only that the bad things he has done are significant, and must be addressed to get conservatives to vote for him.

As far as Barack’s middle name is concerned, it’s fair game, period.  His policy about running away from the terrorists in Iraq is reason enough to suspect his allegiance to this country, IMO.
I don’t think a Presidential campaign is any place for a delicate flower who can’t take the abuse.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Illegal Immigration?  Fair criticism.
Democrats blocking qualified judicial nominees?  Completely unfair and contentious. 
Banning political speech by non-elites?   Unfair and misrepresentative of what the legislation has done/not done.
Wrecking the economy with a euro style carbon cap and trade scheme? Reasonable criticism, though it’s not clear how he will respond as president on this issue. He’s shown the ability to be trainable.

Was it over the line to point out that he didn’t deny he had meetings with Tom Daschle to switch parties, only saying that he never really considered doing so?   No.  Nothing unfair about repeating DNC talking points!  You have any evidence that he considered switching parties, post it.

Is it unfair to point out that he acted inappropriately benefiting a donor, specifically Charles Keating? How much do you know about this story, anyway?  If you want to talk about serious scandals, discuss BCCI or ELF.  There isn’t evidence that McCain did anything unethical, let alone illegal on this.  But drudge up 20-year old trash if that makes you feel better.

By that you mean, only if you get to cherry pick which parts to look at.

There are a few issues that I consider to be important.  However I don’t believe I deny that he’s not all bad.

But if his bad outweighs his good then I won’t vote for him. 

By the way, one good in his corner is earmarks.  However, what’s he ever done about entitlement reform?

When President Bush was proposing reform of Social Security did he lend any support or was he like the Democrats who want to leave the problem until it’s too late to fix?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

By that you mean, only if you get to cherry pick which parts to look at.

Here’s where you get it wrong, Carrick.  It’s not “cherry-picking”, it’s concern with real issues.  The immigration bill and his endorsement of the global warming mythology concern me, and no amount of “good” things addresses those concerns.  I don’t want a President leading us down the wrong road on immigration and global warming, no matter what else he does.  Those aren’t my only concerns with McCain, but are simply two examples.  I have never said that he hasn’t done anything right, only that what he has done wrong is very significant in winning my support.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

As far as Barack’s middle name is concerned, it’s fair game, period. 

Fair enough, but Cunningham’s use of Barack’s middle name was infantile at best.  I would not want my campaign associated with low-life behavior like that.  I understand Cunningham is now supporting Hillary. They deserve each other.

By the way, one good in his corner is earmarks.  However, what’s he ever done about entitlement reform?

His cancer research sucks too.  And that jazz music career never took off, if we’re going to throw in offhanded criticisms.

As far as Cunningham is concerned, I see your point, but you miss mine.  I could see where McCain might have vetted this guy before he asked him for an introduction, since Cunningham is not secretive about his position on Obama.  I could also see McCain, having not done proper preparation, making some sort of statement about how he didn’t agree with what Cunningham said, but abjectly apologizing not only to Obama, but to Hillary as well, just shows a disloyalty that is frankly unappealing, and which has been part of his political persona for a very long time.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Unfair and misrepresentative of what the legislation has done/not done.

As written it was intended to keep the little guy out of politics.  Sure I can run meaningless ad the week before an election but I can’t (through a coalition of my friends) say not to vote for Mr. McCain.

Reasonable criticism, though it’s not clear how he will respond as president on this issue. He’s shown the ability to be trainable.

If he makes a read my lips pledge to NOT do this before the election I’ll likely vote for him. Otherwise I think he’ll go ahead and do it to make friends with the lefties which is his MO.

Nothing unfair about repeating DNC talking points!  You have any evidence that he considered switching parties, post it.

Tom Daschle and another said that the meetings took place.  McCain didn’t deny it.  If he denied it someone might come up with proof.  However there’s no way to refute it when he says that he never considered it in his own mind. Clintonesque?

There isn’t evidence that McCain did anything unethical, let alone illegal on this.  But drudge up 20-year old trash if that makes you feel better.

Well the Senate ethics committee said he did.  This is a pretty big job and if he showed a lack of character 20 years ago it means something.  This isn’t a case of something stupid someone did in college, he was around fifty years old at the time.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Robert108, it’s not cherry picking to look at issues that concern us.  On the issues, Whistler and I aren’t that far apart, though I do disagree with him and most America about campaign finance reform.

However, it is cherry picking to use these issues to argue that he’s actually a closet liberal, as some have done, when his record says otherwise.  My point is you take the record as a whole and you use that to produce a portrait of the man, not just the parts you don’t like about him.  That is cherry picking.

However,what’s he ever done about entitlement reform?

Compared to entitlement spending, earmarks are a drop in the bucket, so that’s a very important question, IMO.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

His cancer research sucks too.  And that jazz music career never took off, if we’re going to throw in offhanded criticisms.

It was a question that occurred to me while I was writing it. 

If he has been in favor of entitlement reform that’s a big positive with me.  Earmarks are window dressing, entitlements is the real thing.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Whistler:

As written it was intended to keep the little guy out of politics.  Sure I can run meaningless ad the week before an election but I can’t (through a coalition of my friends) say not to vote for Mr. McCain.

Actually the biggest problem with the reform bill has been its uneven enforcement (or lack there of) by the FEC.  I have no problem with reducing the power of organizations like the NRA, I know you do.  Tough for these PACs, they did much more harm than good to our political process.

Tom Daschle and another said that the meetings took place.  McCain didn’t deny it. 

There is zero evidentiary value to this observation.

Well the Senate ethics committee said he did. 

No, they didn’t, actually.  Check the record.

My point is you take the record as a whole and you use that to produce a portrait of the man, not just the parts you don’t like about him.

Not really.  If he was 99% conservative, but wanted carbon taxes to “fight global warming”, I wouldn’t support him.  That’s a very toxic issue for me.  I think that “overall record” thinking isn’t all that valid, either.  It’s like saying a dictator “makes the trains run on time”.  The fact that he’s a dictator more or less cancels out all the good stuff, at least for me.  Don’t accuse me of calling McCain a dictator now; it was simply and example.  I haven’t ever said McCain was a closet liberal, btw; I just don’t like his positions on a number of issues.  That’s a legitimate concern, not “cherry-picking”, as I explained before.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

With the Dashcle thing, absence of proof is not proof of malfeasance.  McCain says he never considered switching parties.  In the absence of any other proof, this looks like DNC manufactured horse manure.

No, they didn’t, actually.  Check the record.

How bad do you have to be for the rest of the Senate to notice?

---

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

---

Robert108, I wasn’t criticizing you in any case for cherry picking.

If he has been in favor of entitlement reform that’s a big positive with me.  Earmarks are window dressing, entitlements is the real thing.

100% agreed.

Ironically, his opposition to earmarks is not one that helps me very much.  I’ve made the case in the past that the mechanism is actually federalistic in nature and should be supported by federalists, the problem is its lack of transparency and hence potential for abuse.  Most anti-earmark people, like Rep. Flake don’t get this, in fact most of the earmarks that Flake points out actually are sensible uses of federal monies.

A president who understands the need to address the looming crisis in our budget created by the glut in entitlement sending is much more important to me.  If I had any serious candidate who was talking about entitlement reform, I’d be a lot happier.

Whistler are you standing by this comment “Well the Senate ethics committee said he did.” or are you trying to distract from it now?

Actually the biggest problem with the reform bill has been its uneven enforcement (or lack there of) by the FEC.

Well when it was being written was there any doubt that certain parties would get a pass while others were scrutinized closely?  The problem is that Congress and the President gave them the power to abuse.

I have no problem with reducing the power of organizations like the NRA, I know you do.

I disagree.  I feel that the NRA does a good job sticking up for my rights.  In the absence of the NRA more power is given to the incumbents in Washington and the press. 

What you’re doing there is making certain elites more powerful.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Whistler are you standing by this comment “Well the Senate ethics committee said he did.” or are you trying to distract from it now?

My link didn’t work for some reason.

The committee recommended censure for Cranston and criticized the other four [including McCain] for “questionable conduct.”

Substitute questionable for unethical.

If I understand his questionable conduct was having a meeting with regulators to intercede for Keating.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I meant you asked me if he had done anything unethical or illegal.  I said yes.  I am revising that to say he did something questionable.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

I’ve made the case in the past that the mechanism is actually federalistic in nature and should be supported by federalists, the problem is its lack of
transparency and hence potential for abuse.

Agree 100%.  In fact, I regard “earmark reform” as a political smokescreen.  It’s a politician’s way of appearing to be tough on spending while actually doing almost nothing about it.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Whistler:

If I understand his questionable conduct was having a meeting with regulators to intercede for Keating.

Here’s McCain’s take on it:

The appearance of it was wrong. It’s a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do.

I think we could use this as a baseline for describing the degree of inappropriateness of the activity.  “Ill-judged”, “wrong-headed”, “questionable” all are appropriate monikers for this behavior.  However, it was agreed by the ethics committee that his involvement was minimal and did not constitute any violation of senatorial standards on ethics.  McCain’s role in the Keating Five is mostly notable because he’s running for president now, not because he crossed over the line on this one.  As far as I can tell, he didn’t.

Not to defend him on this, but I do imagine this sort of thing happens all the time.  People use their contacts in Washington to influence outcomes all the time.  That’s human nature, no law is going to fix that.

What you’re doing there is making certain elites more powerful.

I don’t see that.  Putting a limit on how much they can contribute dilutes their power, rather than amplifying it.

Well when it was being written was there any doubt that certain parties would get a pass while others were scrutinized closely?

Well yes there is doubt actually.  What the FEC has been doing may be illegal, and is certainly under scrutiny by congress.

That’s his take on it.  The other side is probably a bit worse.

A senator showing up to pressure regulators is wrong.  When it’s in exchange for contributions it’s very wrong.

Are you using the “everyone does it” defense. 

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Putting a limit on how much they can contribute dilutes their power, rather than amplifying it.

You missed my point.  What you’re doing is making other groups not regulated such as incumbents, the press and the unions more powerful.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Whister:

That’s his take on it.  The other side is probably a bit worse.

Not from what I’ve read.

Rush called it a few years back; McCain/Feingold would give the MSM much greater power in the election cycle.  What we have seen in this primary cycle is a very good example of that.  Ann Coulter also wrote a brilliant article on the same subject a few weeks ago.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Not from what I’ve read.

I said a bit worse, not a ton worse.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Are you using the “everyone does it” defense. 

Tu quoque? Hell no. 

Just point out that this is how business is done in Washington.  The details are in the nuances here.  Power broking is what Senators do.  The problem is over how it was done here, not that it gets done.

What you’re doing is making other groups not regulated such as incumbents, the press and the unions more powerful.

I’m confused how this makes any of these more power, but OK.  The only groups adversely affected are PACs.  You as an individual actually have more power than you did before, because your contribution counts for more than it would have.  Similarly, Unions can no longer abscond part of the salaries of their union members and use them to support particular candidates.  I’d say they’ve been significantly damaged (probably more than any other group) by this legislation. 

Explain to me how this benefits the incumbent also?

Why is increasing the power of the free press over PACs a bad thing?  I agree that it has happened.

Rush called it a few years back; McCain/Feingold would give the MSM much greater power in the election cycle. 

It’s increased the power of the press in general.  Given that the main cable news channel, Fox News, is either neutral or slightly conservative, how does this hurt the conservative cause?

Increasing the power of unpaid-for speech benefits democracy, rather than harms it.

I thought that the unions were exempted from McCain Feingold.

If I and my gun-nut buddies (NRA) choose to challenge an incumbent because of their anti-gun record that’s my business.

If we can’t do that our voice is diminished to the benefit of the incumbent.

Why is increasing the power of the free press over PACs a bad thing?

As if the press doesn’t have enough power.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Increasing the power of unpaid-for speech benefits democracy, rather than harms it.

Shutting up people on the outside diminishes democracy.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Given that the main cable news channel,
Fox News, is either neutral or slightly conservative, how does this hurt the conservative cause?

Your argument, not mine.  My point is that the MSM, which is highly biased, has been given even more power over the election process.  Witness the present Primary.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Foxnews?

I believe the liberal press has about 10 times the influence measured in audience than Fox. 

ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC and CNN.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

To return to the gang of 14 issue that Carrick took exception to my characterization of.

Supporters of McCain say that he’ll appoint conservative judges.  Why would we think that he’d support his nominees when he worked with Democrats to keep qualified conservatives off of the bench?

It seems that he did that in order to preserve senate congeniality rather than what’s right.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

...the free press…

Only if you’re a Dem.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

The networks still have enormous influence over the undecideds.  They see them as unbiased and fall for their bias.

Viewer of Fox and other alternative media both left and right are less influenceable in my opinion.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

McCain helped break a stalemate and get federal judges appointed who were being blocked by the Democrats.  In return for this, he “gave away” judges who had no chance of getting confirmed by the Senate without engaging the nuclear option.

This was a major loss for the Democratic Party.  They gained almost nothing from the deal.  He did what was best for the country, but not for the extremists.  I kind of like what Ylesias says about this one:

It’s probably not my place to judge, but of all things for conservatives to distrust about John McCain surely this “gang of fourteen” business is the silliest. This was a disagreement over tactics not any grand questions of principle. There’s never been any indication that McCain doesn’t favor conservative judicial nominees. Indeed, the upshot of the compromise McCain helped broker was the confirmation of a bunch of conservative judges. It seems to me that McCain’s tactics were pretty smart and effective. But even if you disagree and think his tactical judgment was wrong, it was just that—a question of tactics.

Also one of his commentators:

Actually, I think it is not just silly but rather revealing that Republican true believers are actively offended by the idea of acting in concert with Democrats, no matter what the objective results. Cooperation with The Evil Ones is by definition wrong, even if the results are good.

Some of that is at operation here too.  Not necessarily with you or Robert108, but there are certainly some who see things this way.  (Flip side I know Democrats who see any cooperation with Republicans as inherently evil, so…)

In return for this, he “gave away” judges who had no chance of getting confirmed by the Senate without engaging the nuclear option.

Well that was my point wasn’t it?  Were these bad, unqualified candidates?  If not they were worth fighting for.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

As regards entitlement reform, McCain has a very good record on it.

Social Security:

* He voted YES to allow personal retirement accounts (S.Con.Res.86 ; vote number 1998-56 on Apr 1, 1998).

* He voted YES to allow Roth IRAs for retirees (Roth Amdt #2339; Bill H.R. 2676 ; vote number 1998-120 on May 6, 1998).

* He voted YES to allow deducting Social Security taxes on federal income tax (S Con Res 57 ; vote number 1996-140 on May 22, 1996).

* He has advocated that (when there is one), a large portion of any budget surplus should be directed toward a Social Security trust fund, and that that trust fund can ONLY be used to fund social security.

Welfare:

* He has advocated that benefits come with the condition that recipients spend at least 40 hours a week at work or in job training.

* He voted YES on the “Contract with America” welfare reform (H.R. 4 ; vote number 1995-443 on Sep 19, 1995).

Health Care:

* He is AGAINST a universal health care system and AGAINST mandated health insurance coverage.

* He has supported tax-free health savings accounts and tax credits for health care expenses.

McCain’s entitlement reform record and sentiments are solid and based on principles that should appeal to conservatives.

Thanks Seth, that does move him up on the bad/good scale.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Fox has more prime time viewers than the other cable news channels combined.

CBS news and the others because of their short duration can’t compete for influence with 24-hour news channels.  Radio channels of course are also dominated by conservatives.

The only place you may have a real point is the print media.  With the fall off in readership (more like collapse in some cases) with mainstream newspapers, the influence of this medium is also deteriorating over time.

In addition to this, we have the ascendance of blogs.  Instapundit gets more daily views than CNN news for example.

I don’t think this is nearly as bleak as you are making it out.  In the long run, if conservatives lose out it’s either because their ideas aren’t as good, or because they failed to use the correct tactics to sell them to the general population (moderates and independents).

Whistler:

Well that was my point wasn’t it?  Were these bad, unqualified candidates?  If not they were worth fighting for.

If they couldn’t be confirmed, they were bad choices to start with.

if conservatives lose out it’s either because their ideas aren’t as good, or because they failed to use the correct tactics to sell them to the general population

Or their candidates suck! 

Don’t sell the networks short.  Their broadcast times are short but their influence is huge.  Not as much as it used to be and at least the message is out there.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

CBS news and the others because of their short duration can’t compete for influence with 24-hour news channels.

You’re joking, right?  Compare the numbers; it’s no contest. The MSM gets the public in the morning, for the housewives, and in the evening when the families are clustered around the TV.  What goes on the rest of the time is insignificant.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

If they couldn’t be confirmed, they were bad choices to start with.

They would have been confirmed except for the unprecedented use of the filibuster which had never been used to block judicial nominees.  (Except for that one Supreme Court nominee who didn’t have majority support anyway.

They had majority support, just not supermajority support.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

In addition to this, we have the ascendance of blogs.  Instapundit gets more daily views than CNN news for example.

Make that MSNBC.  CNN gets slightly more than twice the daily visits as Instapundit currently (600,000 versus 250,000).  Of course, many of CNN’s visitors are “channel flickers” (Fox News watchers tend to stay on channel more), so in terms of quality visits, CNN’s importance may be over stated.

McCain is good on healthcare, but I want to see movment toward free market forces, and no politician is doing that.
As far as SS is concerned, the only thing that can save it is to transition into private retirement accounts, and sunset the present welfare entitlement that is the reality of SS now.  I haven’t heard McCain deal with the truth about SS.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

They had majority support, just not supermajority support.

Which wasn’t enough to get them nominated, without employing the nuclear option.  Are you actually suggesting, given the luxury of historical hind site, that this was a good alternative???

Given the 2006 election, it’s definitely a good thing for the Republicans that they didn’t got that way.  It would have already come back to seriously bite them in the ass.

He did what was best for the country, but not for the extremists.

Conservatives are not “extremists”.  I think he did what he thought was best for McCain, not the country.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

reforming Social Security all at once is probably politically impossible.  All we can hope for is moving it in the right direction.

The problem is that some people are going to spend everything they make and then some.  They get to the age where they can no longer work and they demand the provident supply them with a living. 

I think what will happen around the time I reach retirement age is that those of us who did save will be told that we were stupid to do so.  Social Security will be a full-blown welfare program.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Robert108:

The MSM gets the public in the morning, for the housewives, and in the evening when the families are clustered around the TV

What does this have to do with the relative impact of the broadcast news programs?  Since when are we concerned about politically agnostic programming?

Given the 2006 election, it’s definitely a good thing for the Republicans that they didn’t got that way.  It would have already come back to seriously bite them in the ass.

If the Democrats capture the White House and the Republicans wind up with a similar situation in the Senate 43-45 seats, I don’t expect the Democrats to sit on their hands and honor the McCain plan and allow the Republicans to block certain judicial nominees.

The Democrats don’t play nice.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Conservatives are not “extremists”.  I think he did what he thought was best for McCain, not the country.

Better put extremists like Ann Coutler aren’t conservatives.  And the Gang of Fourteen saved the Republican’s butt on this one, because if we had done what the extremists wanted, there would have been all hell to pay.

In any case, I think Yglesias’s commentary stands here.  This isn’t about conservative principle, it’s about disagreement over tactics dressed up as an ideological argument.

If the Democrats capture the White House and the Republicans wind up with a similar situation in the Senate 43-45 seats, I don’t expect the Democrats to sit on their hands and honor the McCain plan and allow the Republicans to block certain judicial nominees.

The fall-out has already taken place on this one.  The deal was over Bush nominees and the trade-off of voting against the nuclear option in return for the promise not to filibuster over Bush nominees who had a serious chance of getting confirmed.

I notice you carefully avoiding discussion of the consequences of the nuclear option what would have happened after the 2006 election.

Better put extremists like Ann Coutler aren’t conservatives.

Wrong.  You are buying leftie media spin on Ann.  She tells the truth about them, which is only as “extreme” as their leftward tilt actually is.  They are trying to cut into her influence with personal attack, not facts.
I think you are in fantasyland if you don’t recognize that Dems never keep their agreements with Republicans; that’s a one-way street.  They will do what is in the interest of their acquiring power, regardless of agreements or what’s actually good for the country.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

How did anything change with the 2006 election?  Now the Democrats don’t have to resort to a filibuster.  They can now vote no for any nominee either in committee or in the Senate as a whole.

The deal may be significant IF the Democrats capture the White House.  The deal acknowledges the power of the filibuster, but only under certain circumstances.

However if the Republicans were to employ the filibuster for reasons that we find legitimate I doubt the Democrats would honor the deal. 

They’ll resort to the nuclear option if they have to because unlike McCain they don’t give a rip about playing nice.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Wrong.  You are buying leftie media spin on Ann.  She tells the truth about them, which is only as “extreme” as their leftward tilt actually is.

I wouldn’t characterize her positions as extremist, but I would classify her rhetorically as a loose cannon.  She is a commentator, not a spokemodel for the conservative movement.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Since when are we concerned about politically
agnostic programming?

Wake up!!!  The entertainment programming on the MSM is chock full of anti-Republican propaganda.  This weeks “Medium” had a plot with an Arizona Senator who was a Vietnam War captive and who killed and ate another captive.  Catch all the news broadcasts throughout the “family hour”.  You’re seriously out of touch here, Carrick.
Even a military-oriented show like “NCIS” has a part where the former Marine Gunny says he “supports the troops, but not the war”.  It’s pure crap, it’s propaganda, and it’s constant.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

How does not supporting the mission support the troops?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

reforming Social Security all at once is probably politically impossible. All we can hope for is moving it in the right direction.

Who is suggesting such a thing?  What part of “start transitioning” don’t you understand?  The sooner we start, the less damage will be done, and the less painful it will be.  In any case, it will take a long time; probably a generation.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

She is a commentator, not a spokemodel
for the conservative movement.

As a conservative, she’s an individual, not a part of a “movement”.  She speaks for herself, and a lot of us generally agree with her, because the truth is the truth, no matter who says it.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

What part of “start transitioning” don’t you understand?

I think we’re on the same page on this.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

r108: just because you haven’t heard McCain acknowledge the reality of Social Security, doesn’t mean he hasn’t.

How about this:

We’ve got a ticking time bomb out there. And it’s called the Social Security Trust Fund. And starting in 2014 there’ll be more money going out than in. There’s a $5 trillion unfunded liability out there in the form of the Social Security Trust Fund. If we can put the money in quick, then we will be able to allow people to invest their payroll taxes into investments of their choosing and make a huge amount of difference in the solvency of their retirement fund.

-GOP Debate in Manchester NH Jan 26, 2000

...or this:

Look, what Americans need is some straight talk. Every man, woman and child in America needs to know it’s going broke, and we’ve got to do the hard things. We’ve got to fix it for the future generations of Americans. Don’t we owe that to young Americans today? I say we do. It’s got to be bipartisan. And you have to go to the American people and say we won’t raise your taxes. We need personal savings accounts, but we got to fix this system.

-GOP primary debate in Orlando, Florida Oct 21, 2007

Really, the man isn’t as liberal/big government as some of the people around here make him out to be. While there’s a lot to criticize him about, there’s also a lot to like about his positions and record…if you only take the time to be open minded and find out.

Seth, thanks for the info.  Now is that just talk or has he used his position in the Senate to actually propose reform?

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

Well, there’s those ‘yes’ votes I mentioned above.

There are limits on how much a Senator (or even president) can accomplish.

Seth: Thanks for the info.  I only said I had never heard him on SS reform, not that he hadn’t said anything.  Assuming facts not in evidence.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

I think we’re on the same page on this.

Absolutely.  With a govt and a country this size, nothing happens quickly, especially when govt spending of our money is involved.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

For all you anti-McCains who will not vote for him, I hope you will enjoy the next four years of Democratic rule cause I won’t.

One of the most important talents for success in politics is the ability to make utter nonsense sound not only plausible but inspiring. Barack Obama has that talent. We will be lucky if we escape the catastrophes into which other countries have been led by leaders with that same charismatic talent.
-Thomas Sowell

I’m sorry I will only vote for a candidate that actually improves things (from my persepective of course.)

If on a scale of -10 to 10, I’ll vote for McCain if only he’s a 1 or a 2.  On the other I won’t vote for him if he’s a -1 even if the other candidate is a -7 or -8.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.

They would have been confirmed except for the unprecedented use of the filibuster which had never been used to block judicial nominees. (Except for that one Supreme Court nominee who didn’t have majority support anyway.

other than him, who didn’t get appointed?  I’m asking, I don’t remember….

For all you anti-McCains who will not vote for him, I hope you will enjoy the next four years of Democratic rule cause I won’t.

The way I see it, we have three choices for Demoncrats, only two of them openly announce themselves as such.  The third has a track record as a Demoncrat, and not on minor issues.

He got in by a major cash infusion by Soros (now there’s a trusted source) , free publicity by the MSM (he is the Leftist MSMs’ favoritest Republican dontcha know ... doesn’t that tell you something?) , by cross-over voting by Liberals and Independents, and by having a split field of more Conservative opponents, to include the Huckster, who seems really to have been more of a stalking horse than a genuine contender.

I’ve given exhaustive reasons, backed up by historical references, why McCain is not to be trusted.  I’ve provided proposed strategy, and shown precedents from previous administrations showing how this strategy, if properly exercised, can work effectively.

So…if you are tired of me telling you why Hell will Freeze Over before I vote for McCain, then quit pestering me to vote for him.

Deal?

But if you keep up shilling for a stealth Leftist, I will be there (from time to time, as I do have a day job) bringing up facts to un-stealth his Leftist Manchurian Candidate, give-America-to-20-Million-Illegal-Mexicans ass.

...for great justice

Whether they are defending the Soviet Union or bleating for Saddam Hussein, liberals are always against America. They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America’s self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant.” —Ann Coulter, P. 16

http://i44.tinypic.com/t89p3s.jpg[/IMG]”]

AMERICANS FOR TRUTH

NO PRIDE. LV

MASS RESISTANCE

THE PINK SWASTIKA

DD, why did anyone screw around with this kabuki dance Primary crap for? RNC chose McC last January. Exactly why did we piss away all the money and effort on this pointless exercise? People do not want Juan McCain because he has repeatedly backstabbed us. And that is exactly what his Presidency will be, one long betrayal.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

other than him, who didn’t get appointed?  I’m asking, I don’t remember….

Abe Fortas

That was meant to keep debate open about and force him to resign I guess.  The votes weren’t there to confirm him for Chief Justice.

1% of Americans pay 40% of the income tax.
5% of Americans pay 60% of the income tax.
10% of Americans pay 70% of the income tax.