Let’s Stop The Secession Talk

TheUnionisDissolved

I’ve had multiple readers email me links to petitions on the official White House website asking permission for secession from some 20 states. I ignored these emails because a) online petitions are dumb and b) talk of secession is dumb.

But news of the petitions has made the mainstream media, so it’s worth a mention I guess.

FARGO — After the events of last week’s election, some people apparently want out.

Residents of 22 states, including North Dakota, had filed petitions on the White House’s official petitions website seeking permission to secede from the United States, as of Monday afternoon.

Most, including the North Dakota petition, appear to be cookie cutters of one another, asking the OK from President Barack Obama’s administration to withdraw peacefully and form a new government. Most do not give specific reasons, instead quoting the Declaration of Independence.

The North Dakota petition, which has about 4,300 electronic signatures, follows that template. It was created by someone identified only as “C R” from Grand Forks. Signers do not have to give their full names.

You can see all the petitions here on the White House website, including new petitions responding to the secession petitions such as one calling for the deportation of everyone who wants to secede.

This is all a pretty grim commentary on the understanding of basic civics among Americans.

You cannot deport someone by starting up an online petition. And if you believe in the right of the states to secede – if you believe the union is a voluntary creation of the several states which can be ended by any one state – then it’s not something you ask the President for permission to do. If you’re going to petition anyone for secession, you petition the governors and the legislatures of the various states to do it.

And then you remember that this is a concept that America once went to war over. It was called the Civil War, and it wasn’t just about slavery.

The only thing dumber than wanting to secede after this election may be thinking it’s something that can be accomplished through online petition.

But setting aside the centuries-old debate over the right of the states to secede, can we just admit that these petitions are a rather childish manifestation of post-election frustration? One that makes the right look pretty silly?

Neither North Dakota, nor any other state, is going to secede. What conservatives need to do is start talking about finding better candidates, and better ways to articulate the limited government message. That is a useful conversation. Not secession talk.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

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  • Mike Quinn

    http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/park-avenue/?fb_action_ids=4172404502583&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=.UKJTMh77udM.like&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582 This program is a cure for Republican Cancer. The PBS program “Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream”, is the most toxic thing you could use to destroy the cancerous brain cells in a Republicans minds. If you wonder who pays Rob Port, this will clearly give you the answer.

  • sbark

    hmmm…..quote: What conservatives need to do is start talking about finding better candidates, and better ways to articulate the limited government message……..

    but but but…….we’ve presented the “better candidates” with liberal social values in Romney, Bush’s McCain, Dole……….as demanded by moderates, independents and Big L’s
    Those same groups join in with the Left in demonizing even the Reagans on up thru the Govt Walkers…….Most “better candidates” will have convictions against big govt and also socieltal degradation…….it pretty much goes hand in hand.
    How can candidates articulate the “limited govt message”–when the social left want govt involvment in gay rights, free contraception, attacking the Catholic church, more for Planned Parenthood, Social moderates cannot expect one without the other, unless you are a pure libertarian—and that takes a dictatorship to maintain control as much as the dem’cats stateism or worse.

    • $8194357

      This aint your daddys America huh.

  • Mike Quinn

    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Rob Port is 100% correct in this instance. The extreme dumbness of the people who want to petition is what lost the last election for the Republicans. Republican extremism is what has been the demise of the Republican party, so I should applaud the petition idiots. The more intelligent Republicans have realized the extreme lying of Fox News, and the extreme shittiness of Rush Limbaugh have been a negative. Once Republicans get extreme enough they become their own worst enemy because the most idiotic Hooplehead can see the lies.

    • Mike Peterson

      Mike Quinn, is this you? http://vote-nd.org/intro.aspx?state=nd&id=ndquinnmike you sure enjoy mocking people on here

      • Mike Quinn

        I presume Mike Peterson is you real name, and I commend you for being willing to stand by what you say. Unlike so many of the chickenshits on here who don’t have the courage to take ownership of what they say. Yes that is me. I believe what I believe, and I do not need to hide. 90% of the liars and distorters on this site know in their heart they are sorrowful little people with no courage. They are the gun totters that fear their own shadow. Jefferson, Washington, and all the great leaders had the guts to stand up an say what they believed. The little lickspittles on this blog who lie, and hide are the worst vermin imaginable. I enjoy flushing out the rats on this site. Every time you challenge them with the truth they scurry to their holes. When you have the truth on your side you can have a lot of fun. “Know the truth, and the truth will set you free”. The simple minded right wing cowards on this site are prisoners of their own delusions. I just want to save their worthless souls.

        • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

          You sure do harbor a lot of hate.

          Have you thought of therapy?

          • badlands4

            You don’t feel the need to hide yet you have used multiple usernames in the past here. In fact, until you were “outed” if you will, you were using a username that was not your real name. You never change what you write when you use different usernames. I mean you copy down to the quotation mark the exact same thing on every post, under every username. You also never pick up a thesaurus to change your verbiage.

            I agree that you should truly seek therapy. You are the kind of person that keeps people from posting their real names. There are people that post here that are just spouting off weird things to poke people in the eye but that isn’t the person they are in real life. In your case you may be doing the same thing, but you truly sound like you have, or already are, unhinged. Like the Unibomber unhinged.

            I have said things that i shouldn’t have said and things that someone has vehemently disagreed with and have had a back and forth conversation. I have also had things said to me that shouldn’t have been said. HOWEVER, in all of those back and forths over the years, you are the only one that is a)incapable of carrying on any kind of rational, adult, “real” conversation and b) seems totally, and truly in real life, unhinged. Scarily so. If you were to find out who I was, I would truly watch out for you. Perhaps my bear spray and my dog that would bite you would become part of my life.

          • Mike Quinn

            No one would ever have much trouble figuring out who I am, and it does not worry me at all. Ask anyone who knows me, I speak out and say what I wish. A lot of people died protecting our right to free speech. People who do not have the courage to speak out demean the sacrifice so many made. Over the years I have actually had nice conversations with people I disagreed with on these blogs. They had the courage to call me, or I called them. When you talk in person a lot changes. A couple of days ago I called a very rotten Republican legislator and confronted him with some dishonest things he did. I was surprised he continued the conversation. However after we talked awhile I did have to respect him for hearing me out. I had never considered that he may have been duped by his fellow Republicans. After talking to him I now have to consider the possibility he may not be as rotten as I originally thought. I am sure if people would come out of hiding and talk openly we would all be better off.

          • badlands4

            a) I never said you shouldn’t speak out, I said you sound unhinged.

            b) I don’t need a lecture from you about our freedom of speech. My husband served over 20 years and one of my children leaves for the military after the first of the year. There is courage and there is self preservation. I wouldn’t give out my name or phone number to the uni-bomber and I would protect myself from you. It is your own words that make me think that way and there isn’t anyone else who posts here regularly(that comes to mind) that I would fear sitting down and having a conversation with, even a spirited one.

            c) you speak alot about courage and using your real name yet you have used multiple usernames here. I don’t give my real name but I have never used any other username. I own my comments, valid, stupid, thoughtful or unkind. I don’t try and pretend I have multiple personalities.

            Again, it is YOUR words that make me concerned about you. If you were rational it would be different but you do not, at least you are not via your postings.

            If you ever want to have an adult, rational conversation that doesn’t make you seem like the uni-bomber, I would be happy to engage in that with you but it will NEVER be in person because you do concern me and you live in the same state as I do, a state that is lightly populated and makes it easy to find where anyone lives.

            Even though I don’t live in Williston proper, Williston is the town we live most of our life. Because of that, I, like every other woman in town, has learned to become quite vigilant and follow the ideas espoused by the sheriff and police dept on safety, particularly at night. That being said, I don’t live in fear in general but I do know to stay far away from crazy.

            Again, if you want to grow up and become a real person vs someone who goes on cut and paste irrational rants I would be happy to do that.

          • $8194357

            I suggest the 357 mag.
            Two inch barrel five shot with lazar sights.
            Loaded with at least the .38 spcl +P 125 grain hollow point
            personal protection rounds…

            A center mass shot should stop “crazies”…
            Work your way up to heavier loads for bears.

            God Bless…

          • Mike Quinn

            You owns words betray you. You are afraid, that is what your words say. You are afraid to use your name, you are afraid to admit where you live. Fear is the grease that makes the right wing run. I don’t carry a gun, and I am not afraid to say who I am or where I live. Simple minded right wing dingers have threatened me, but I know people afraid to use their real name pose no threat to me. The Klan hides under sheets because in their heart they are afraid, and ashamed.

          • badlands4

            I don’t know what happened to my post. It may show up, but in short:

            a) I never said you shouldn’t speak your mind. I said you come across as unhinged.

            b) I don’t need a lecture from you on freedom of speech. My husband served over 20 years and one of my children leaves for the military after the first of the year.

            c) If you want to grow up and have a rational, “real” conversation vs some cut and paste, multiple personality, unhinged rant, let me know. I would be happy to do that.

            d) NO ONE on this board that posts regularly would make be afraid to sit down in real life and have a conversation with. Even a spirited one. Except you. I wouldn’t give the uni-bomber my name and phone number. I certainly wouldn’t give you, someone that lives in the same state I do, my name and phone number.

            e) you talk about courage, yet you have used multiple usernames in the past. In fact, all you do is make up a new name and cut and paste the exact….and I do mean exact, phrases. So, instead of one name posting as if unhinged, you have, or have had, multiple “names” posting the exact same unhinged things.

            The other post may show up, but that was essentially it in a nutshell.

            Again, if you want to grow up, have rational, not the same incoherent talking points conversation, and ditch the crazy, I would be happy to have a dialogue with you.

          • badlands4

            Sorry for the double post.

          • Mike Quinn

            Rob, I always love it, and find it very strange when the word hate comes into the game. I am fighting so we can share prosperity with everyone. I am fighting for the common man. You have the audacity to call that hate. You on the other hand fight for the greed and selfishness of the Republican party. Somehow you promote the agenda of 1% of the greediest Americans and you call that love. I promote health care for everyone, decent wages, and I ask the rich to pay their share and I am hateful. You support the guy with a 12 million dollar addition on his beach home and a car elevator that calls 47% of Americans moochers, yet I am hateful and you are a saint. The real word that should be in play here is delusional. That is the work that describes what just happened to the Republican party. Even though you brand of “love” proved to be an utter failure you woke up today with the same scheme of lying and distortion to help those least in need. Please let me know how you transform a person who advocates sharing into hate. It is you who spreads the hate and lies every day. It is your man Trump who does the Kenyan Birther stuff. I just find it so strange that you can make such a mental 360. You do the most rotten journalism on earth and you have the audacity to call me hateful. Please explain. When you discipline your kids it is not because you hate them. When I call you out on your scheming I am only trying to make you a better person. I love ya man.

          • JW -American

            definition of rich, anyone who makes 100 dollars more than your brother-in-law.

            Who cares what Gov. Romney owns would you feel better if he didn’t have a beach house but 12 million in Apple stock?

            What is with you Marxists and your social envy and class hatred? I would imagine Romeny employs many local services to mow his lawns and maintain his boat and even polish his cars that ride that elevator, that is money for the local economy. It’s great when the “rich” spend money, it helps everyone who is depending on that to feed their families and grow thier service companies.

            Instead you and your ilk, would rather he just give that money to Uncle Sam (tax the rich) so Gov. can hire more people to figure out how to disperse it up to those that they think should receive it. In this case , welfare and unemployment to the out of work lawn care and car polishers.

          • The Fighting Czech

            I was thinking the same thing….

    • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

      Mike, you resemble a stopped digital clock…correct two fewer times a day than a stopped analog clock.

  • Rick Olson

    Just out of curiosity, I went on the official White House page http://www.whitehouse.gov to find a link where people have been filing these secession petitions. I couldn’t find it. I agree that this is all sour grapes among a few people and those energies could be better spent elsewhere.

  • Roy_Bean

    This is intended to notify the Whitehouse that we still have a constitution. We are not interested in Hillary signing on to the UN small arms treaty, Harry ratifying it in the Senate and having the 2nd Amendment just go away. We have an alternative. Look at the map of who has started petitions. We would have a viable potential country.

    • Mike Quinn

      Yesterday I had a wonderful hunt with my wife. I got a limit of pheasants and one grouse. My wife got a partridge and a pheasant. We hunt and own shotguns. Your whole gun nonsense is so silly. I like hunting, but I am not afraid some boogy man is going to jump out of the bushes and get me. I am very happy to live a life where I don’t need to live in fear. The NRA has done more to destroy our country than most organizations I can think of. The silly little gun nuts who want to carry concealed weapons and live every moment in an imaginary world scare me. Having goofy paranoid people carrying guns is not the kind of country I want to live in. The man who shot the black kid with a hooded sweat shirt in Florida is the poster child for the gun nuts. The urban legend world is fun, but the real world is better.

      • B. Bending Rodriguez Sr.

        You’ve got issues. Not least of which is being a sock puppet.

        • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

          Sockpuppeting is Mike’s way of searching for his soul.

    • $8194357

      Statements of Constitutional soverienty..
      Of course “moderates” from both party will be upset
      about that old fashioned point of view huh.

    • Game

      Would you like to put some money down on this? I bet you $1000 that unless you commit a crime, nobody from the Government is going to come into you house and take your gun’s between now and the end of Obama’s second term.

  • Flamejob5

    While i agree the current call for succession around the nation is more symbolic in nature and can’t be taken serious, i feel the debate itself over whether or not succession is Constitutional is actually a healthy one to have – which is exactly what most of the conversations i’ve witnessed have morphed into.

    Personally, i’m never one to call for stifling speech as there is always something to gain from it.

    • $8194357

      In diplomatic terms..
      All options should be on the table….IMO..

  • RCND

    Apparently Texas has enough signatures to warrant a response. I think most people signing this don’t see it as a clear path to secession, but rather making a statement.

    These petitions really are an application of Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals in reverse, especially the one about using the establishments rules against them. In this case, 25,000 signatures will get a review and a response from the Administration. Texas got that, and others probably will too. Now we will see if they follow their rules, and if so, how they will do it.

  • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

    Lighten up. It looks like great fun to me. It is arguable that the U.S. is composed of several distinct “nations” (The “Nine Nations of North America”) anyway. After living in North & South Dakota and Montana for many years and having observed East and West Coast cultures, I feel increasingly estranged from large numbers of my “fellow Americans.” This attitude of mine developed 30 years before the last election.

    • badlands4

      Having lived in every section of Northern ND, I am convinced that we should have been created east and west Dakota, not north and south Dakota. ;)

      Now living in the western part of the state, it is like a different planet than the eastern half. Fargo is greater Minnesota and Williston is greater Montana.

      • $8194357

        10X
        badlands
        But we got convience stores now..
        Hee hee..

        • badlands4

          and the Pony Express isn’t the way we get our mail any longer ;)

          • $8194357

            Yup..

      • Dustin Gawrylow

        There was that debate in the 1880’s as to which direction it should be cut, if at all.

        • JW-American

          It should have never been cut, now we have 2 state governments to support, and redundant every thing. I understand the long travels to the State capitol, but by 1883 the railroads pretty much had that problem resolved.

          Another thing they screwed up at state hood was the size of the counties, they are really at least 1/3 too small, resulting in 1/3 more counties than really were needed even back then, now with modern communications and cars/roads they are really too small, which just adds that much more government. If you just look at a state map, take 3 counties and create 2 from it and you will see non are really going to be too large. wanna see big counties? look at Texas.

          Back to the 2 states..

          It just seems silly that the combined ~1.2 million people need this Government, Do we really need what 19-20 state colleges? for ~14-15,000 combined graduates?

  • Dustin Gawrylow

    I’ve gotten dozens of these things too. There’s no other way to describe it but “stupid”.

    • Mike Quinn

      I love it, Republicans recognizing the Tea Party dingers for what they are “stupid”. A rational Republican party may be something I could live with. I get the feeling the rational Republicans are going to chase the nuts out. It is the only hope for their party. If they want to continue to be the party of angry old white men good riddance.

    • $8194357

      A nation divided by ideologies and political corruption,
      media propaganda
      ripe for her enemies picking…
      Stupid?
      SAD

  • Lynn Bergman

    Mainstream media will herald anything stupid to expose loonies, but it serves no-one. They should be working hard on connecting the dots regarding the September 11, 2012 attack on America in Libya and subsequent cover-up of our inaction to do what is right… But it will likely be “informants” that will have to spoon feed the press on that piece of unfinished business. How I long for a return to investigative journalism…

    • Captain Obvious

      Ever thought to take a look at who the parent corporations/owners are of these major media outlets? Google is a simple tool that will help you connect the dot.

  • HG

    Secession talk is just that, talk. I wouldn’t support it now, but it doesn’t hurt to let politicians, especially democrats, that people are fed up (pun intended). That there are limits to what we will tolerate from our gov’t.
    I agree, we need better candidates. Candidates capable of delivering the message and inspiring voters. Our progress on this front is encouraging and we have the tea party to thank for that. Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, etc. These are the caliber of candidates the republican party should be fielding.

    • Onslaught1066

      I agree totally. There is only so much a people will put up with, a limit past which we will not go, and if that limit be reached why… then… we’ll all just have to take to our feet in lock step solidarity and… take a little more.

      But that is it! No further will we be pushed… Unless they ask nicely.

      Our patience wears thin, our resolve is absolute. We are the immovable object, they, the irresistible force… they cancel each other out nicely, don’t you think?

      We are a fiercely proud and implacable people given to an unrelenting urge for independence, unfettered, unobstructed, liberated, disentangled, self-governed and just plain free… Unless that gets to be too much of a bother.

      Pffffft! whatever.

      • $8194357

        But onslaught…
        What about your corperate and/or global citizenship responsabilities..
        Aren’t you a “team player”..
        Its a small small world….
        Progressivism…
        isn’t it great..

        • Onslaught1066

          There is no I in “team”, sadly we have encountered the iGeneration®.

          • $8194357

            I pod generation?
            I told my “corperate bosses” I was sick
            of the good corperate citizenship
            indoctrinations because as you stated…
            there is no I in team
            and I was an individual working a job..

            Not a corperate conglomerate citizen
            needing values and vision statements
            from central planning.
            I have since taken “early retirement”.
            Mutually agreed for our best interests..

          • borborygmi

            How come that doesn’t surprise me. If you are in a right to fire state and I was your boss I would have terminated you also.

          • borborygmi

            I sure hope you aren’t taken any hand outs from the guvmint.

      • HG

        I’m not willing to give up one grain of sand to leftist loons. Secession today would mean surrendering much of America to these numbskulls. Not me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Evans/1538949637 Matt Evans

    Oregon is one of the states with a petition, and probably has an entirely different set of people and reasons than does Texas.

    I agree that the election really doesn’t change anything fundamental enough to warrant “sudden” talk of secession, but I applaud people talking about the concept as one possible avenue to decentralize power in the US away from the Federal government.

  • cdolson

    “a concept that America once went to war over”.

    Does this mean that we should forever live in terror of ever exercising this natural right again? Are we to be perpetual debtors to the chains of whatever fiscal and political union our “representatives” in DC deign to shackle the people with?

    I believe that secession, along with nullification, are ideas whose time has come.

    It is time for us to remember who we are. That authority is derived from the people, and from the consent of the governed, and that it is our right and our duty to break chains of bondage and not to live as slaves to contracts written “in our name”.

    I believe that the future of the world is a much more decentralized world. It will be very rough getting there, but I think it will happen. As Ayn Rand said, it is the power of ideas that move and shape the future, that “If you understand the dominant philosophy of a society, you can predict its course.” I mean, who would have ever thought that party officials in China would be entertaining talks on Austrian Economics from a follower of Hayek?

    I think this talk of secession is great. We need to wake up as a culture in the United States to the realization that the power that DC has increasingly taken upon itself over the last century was never delegated to them, and is wholly incompatible with our “union”. In fact, it denies and disintegrates the very Union it claims to derive its authority from.

    This DC/FED/IRS Central Government Beast is a paper tiger, and these truthful ideas are like rain, beating down on it, weakening it, dissolving it, exposing it.

    • JW -American

      Before we talk succession I would love for ND, SD, WY, Texas and perhaps few other states like UT and ID explore the Nullification of certain Federal laws. Nullification is legal and would be the 1st step in regaining a country I’m afraid we might have lost last week.

      Give this outfit in Charge 4 years to grow the dependancy class by 5-10% and it wont matter who we run for president, the takers will by volume, out vote the producers. then its just a matter of time.

  • Mike Peterson

    Mike Quinn,

    First I do commend you for using your real name. Although anonymity should be anyone’s free choice, I do believe in using my real name and standing by what I say.

    However, for someone who was/is a municipal judge (?), you do come off as somewhat emotionally unstable and without even the least amount of respect for viewpoints other than your own.

    I wanted to say. First off, I too was a State House candidate this year – in District 42, UND area. But, I have a lot of friends who are on the left. In fact, I’m probably the only conservative at where I work. But at least our discussions and debates are somewhat civilized and without slander/hissing.

    I really don’t believe in creating a world where everybody is dependent on the government, where anyone can sign up and get a free cell phone thanks to the president… because a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have, Gerald Ford once said.

    But even so. I come with an open mind. I sincerely feel I understand a lot of the ways people on the left think the way they do. But that would have never came hadn’t it been for hours of discussion attempting to relate where they come from. I do believe in civility and an open discussion of ideas; not demonizing and slandering the opposition. Bill Clinton said this year at the 2012 Democratic National Convention that you don’t have to hate somebody to disagree with them.

    • Mike Quinn

      Park Avenue: Money, Power & the American Dream | Documentary about Income Inequality | Independent L…

      I don’t hate anyone. However, I find it very amusing that when someone on the left sells their mental product with the same tactics Rush Limbaugh or Fox uses. Those on the right are offended. When Limbuagh is harsh and offensive the right loves it. You say I do not respect other peoples views. Do you respect the views of people who believe in creationism? Do you respect the views of the Klan? When people have a view that hurts other people they deserve no respect. How can you respect someone like Paul Ryan? Paul Ryan would glady take money away from working people to give tax breaks to the rich. How can you respect such blatant greed?

      Everythinng I base my thinking on is very well summed up in this program on PBS. If you watch the programe: Park Avenue: Money, Power & the American Dream | Documentary about Income Inequality | Independent L… we could have a very interesting conversation.

      • Mike Quinn

        Park Avenue: Money, Power & the American Dream | Documentary about Income Inequality | Independent L…

        • Mike Peterson

          While I understand the impact money has on elections and conning our elected officials, it has zero to do with my political philosophy so this means nothing to me.

      • Mildred Midlefinch

        “I don’t hate anyone”

        Of course you don’t, it’s your envy of everyone else who has succeeded that has driven you over the edge.

        • Mike Quinn

          According to a lot of right wing dingers on this blog I have a yacht and I am rich. Is that the case or am I broke and full of envy. Which is it dingers?

          • Onslaught1066

            No, you own a tub and you are selfish.

            Sell your boat, Buy a Volt™, Save the Earth.

          • Mildred Midlefinch

            It’s your envy of anyone who has succeeded.

  • Mike Peterson

    Moving beyond Mike Quinn on this post.

    Obviously, asking the president permission to disband from the union isn’t the way to go.

    But I don’t think anybody should gasp at hearing the term, secession.
    Rather, it should be considered an important tool and defense for liberty. The threat of it alone should- should- be a check against federal government encroachment. Today, we have a federal government that is so big, so massive that it hardly matters who’s in office anymore. It is dominated by a virtual ATM machine (our Federal Reserve) that prints unlimited money all of the time, which in essence guarantees the permanent existence of our welfare/warfare state.

    Although I consider myself an optimist- if the Feds do not change their ways and refuse to look at any real solution to get spending and our debt under control, then the states have to look after themselves to protect their own well-being. Whether that means secession or increasing their usage of the Tenth Amendment, I don’t know. But I do feel that distancing ourselves – somehow, someway – from the federal government’s grand master disaster is the way to go.

  • Clarence A. Herz

    The bigger question, Rob, is where are we that it has come to citizens asking the question. Instead of focusing on the nuts signing the petition how about you focus on the reason for the request. Sometimes I just don’t get where you come from.

  • Neiman

    We are a national house bitterly divided with no path to a sufficient level of compromise to rescue the country. While it is just like Rob to piss on an idea over method; raththan considerate the
    merits of their arguments. If nothing else, if enough people start considering the idea, perhaps that alone will wake up the politicians to the serious nature of our divided house.

    • borborygmi

      Great, I would love the President to say well go have a vote. Then your state can waste its money maybe a special election on a referendum of secession and 90% of the people tell you to stfu. You would be exposed for the wingnuts you are. Perhaps they can then ship you off to some little Island in the middle of no where and you can all live your life of Independence until someone decides you must have a leader and some sort of organization (guvmint) and you can start the whole freaking process over again until each of you is on his own pc of land claiming independence and freedom to your hearts content until you die.

  • http://thepoliticalinformer.com/ John-Pierre Maeli

    One way to look at these “secession” petitions is that these people are too lazy to do and walk the hard road. Will it take a while to fix our country? Yes. But these people thinking they can just “leave” is ridiculous and short sided. We can fix the country, it’s just going to be difficult.

  • The Fighting Czech

    while I think this is more of a “statement” then anything else, In all seriousness, If the majority of the population of a state want out, because the federal government has become more of a liability then an asset to that state, they should have the right to secede. The federal government was never meant to be this intrusive in everyday life.

  • jadedhorse

    Actually, i disagree. It is a valuable expression of our 1st amendment rights. It serves to send a political message that people are against the ruler. Your right, the civil war was about keeping the union together, BUT, it never settled the question ” can a state leave the union?” It isnt in the constitution that a state cannot leave. there is no supreme court ruling that a state cannot leave. There is just the history that a war was fought to keep states from leaving. All that settled was that government can use force to stop a state from leaving. If a war was fought once, what makes you think that at some later date in history, when the federal government has become too totalitarian to bear, that the states dont declare that they are ready to use force to leave. Might not happen in our lifetime but who knows what will happen 100 years from now.?

  • borborygmi

    I like the talk of secession. Along with birthers and flat earthers the Conservatives keep looking nuttier. President Obama should give the okay perhaps the states would put it to a vote which IMO give the Secessionist a big black eye discrediting them further.

  • chris

    Maybe you guys would have preferred the Confederate States of America, where the states weren’t obligated to obey the central government. Maybe once you break off from the Federal government, you can form your own Confederacy. And then we can do Civil War all over again.

    • Onslaught1066

      Actually not a bad idea.

      How many people were killed during the civil war?

      It would be a great way to free up some parking space and it’s a hell of a lot cheaper to bury you than “give you a pill”.

  • dwnwththeolguard

    I like the Idea of people speaking out. I keep hearing people say that the the civil war stopped the states from being able to secede. Well, it did, by force. President Lincoln did not want to lose the southern states and one of the reasons why is because of the shipping ports. He used the first “presidential power”, which was a power grab by the federal government to wage war. So you might say the states where beaten into submission. Sounds like a free country right?

  • http://enigma-cypher.blogspot.com/ Enigma_Cypher

    I haven’t been on here much, as of late. But this is a topic that is very important to me. I’ll make it quick.

    The States existed before the federal government did. The federal government was created to be their agent, and was delegated certain powers by the States (the right to declare war, the right to coin money, etc).

    Reading the records of the various conventions that were necessary for the discussion and ratification of our current constitution, it becomes very clear that the States, and the people thereof, were very careful to guard their sovereignty. Any suggestion that one day the states would be reduced to mere political subdivisions would have been enough to keep them from ratifying it.

    The Constitution DOES allow for secession. The tenth amendment specifically states that all powers not granted to the federal government, nor prohibited by it to the States, are held by States or by the people thereof. Since secession is not a power granted to the federal government, nor does the constitution prohibit that right to the states, the only logical conclusion is that each State has the right to secede from the Union.

    Lastly, a political union that requires force to keep it together, is worth nothing.

    • voltman714

      The power of the constitution rests with the American people, not the states, and not just the people of specific states. It is wielded by all of the American citizens as a whole. It is not a confederation or league where you can leave when you want to. States are free to declare their independence, but that is rebellion and if not consented to by congress and the remaining states, is illegal.

      • http://enigma-cypher.blogspot.com/ Enigma_Cypher

        The Treaty of Paris, which ended the War for Independence, recognized the thirteen colonies as thirteen separate States. It is on that basis that the Union was formed. Up until the mid 19th century the Union was also referred to as a Confederation. The Constitution states that the ratification of 9 States was sufficient for it to be in force, but only among the States that were ratifying it. Vermont, for instance refused to join the Union for a number of years and declared itself a Republic. The Constitution was sent to each State separately for ratification, not to the American people as a whole.

        And again, as per the tenth amendment to the Constitution, secession is beyond the control of Congress, since the power of secession is not delegated to Congress by the Constitution, nor does the Constitution prohibit that power to the States.

  • Judy Morris

    Nullification is the sane solution. The last secession didn’t workout too well!

  • chris

    What exactly is a state if it’s not a member of a central government? Wouldn’t it just be an independent country controlled by it’s own central government? Or would you prefer power belonging to a handful of “communities” and no central government? Instead of the “United States of America”, it could be called the “Divided States of America”, or DSA. Hell, why not just call it the “Tribal States of America”?

  • WOOF

    Having lost with the ballot, petitioners beg permission
    of
    the President-elect to secede. You might think that

    would be so sweet that
    Obama would be spreading it on

    his toast at breakfast. I believe the organizer. the shepherd,
    that is his nature will try to bring those sheep into the flock.

    “There’s only one way to be a first-class citizen.
    There’s only one way to be independent.
    There’s only one way to be free.
    It’s not something that someone gives to you.
    It’s something that you take.
    Nobody can give you independence.
    Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything.
    If you’re a man, you take it.
    If you can’t take it,

    you don’t deserve it.”

    • Mildred Midlefinch

      Why don’t you link us to your source that you copy and paste from. It’ll save you the time of clicking your mouse.

      • WOOF

        I wanted you to find out who said it.

  • Mike Quinn

    Park Avenue: Money, Power & the American Dream | Documentary about Income Inequality | Independent L… This program can cure most right wingers infected with the Republican cancer of greed.

  • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

    Anti-America treasonous sour grape frighten white nutters, crack me up.

  • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

    Although, if nutter states did secede, it would be easier if not immediately possible to balance the budget as our nutter states typically are big government handout taking states and just think about all the revenue the United States would receive from renting them all the roads, bridges and damns we’ve built for them.

    • Mildred Midlefinch

      Before obama was elected and started killing the economy, it was all the dem states that were the biggest moochers. Now, after 4 years of the Muslim Marxist kiling off the economy,..well, you know the rest of the story. Over 47 million on food stamps, over 23 million unemployed, and huge tax increases that will hit EVERYONE causing more unemployment and growing welfare rolls.just around the corner

  • Angie Faut

    I was curious what you would have to say about this… I am pretty sure that considering the past record the white house has on responding to what the majority actually wants, these petitions will get no response from the white house. In doing so it would only give them a feel of legitimate possibility. I think the White house is in no way dumb enough to give such an easy hope to extremists. I truly feel that the amount of Americans it would take to start an all out civil war is more work than the majority of Americans would like to put into it. I think it will have to get A LOT worse before enough people are willing to give up the current option to pretend there are no problems and just live in a ignorant and silent existence. Controlling a lazy country has become pretty easy.
    Before it is too late however I do hope we get that old American spirit back. I am afraid however if it doesn’t come with a large dose of caffeine we are all screwed!

  • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

    Suggestion: Texas makes a treaty with Mexico and applies to become either a protectorate or the most northern of the Mexican states. Since many, perhaps even most, Mexicans believe that Texas was stolen from them, enthusiastic Hispanic support would arise, at minimum heavily embarrassing the Administration. Louisiana, New Mexico and Arizona might even get caught up in it. Totally Red State Oklahoma might join. The Wall would come down, Obama would lose Hispanic support, and the problem of illegal immigration would be all but solved. Details to be worked out.

    • WOOF

      Mexico with control of Texas. That movie would be called “Payback “

      • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

        It could be done half-a-dozen ways that would not give Mexico total control. Control would be difficult, and could be made very difficult. Think about it without popping off with another simple-minded response.

        • WOOF

          Seceding from the United States through Mexican legal mumbo jumbo. You are a bizarre civil war reenactor. That movie is called “There Will Be Blood”

          • http://flamemeister.com flamemeister

            You one of those guys who quotes song lyrics to impress women?

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