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Wednesday, April 11, 2007


Kurt Vonnegut Dead At 84

The New York Times has an obituary.

Vonnegut’s Slaughter-House Five was one of my first forays into literature as a young punk, and I hated it.  The book’s alternate title, The Children’s Crusade, infuriated me.  I never understood how anyone, even one who witnessed the horrors of war in person, could compare the soldiers who engaged in the righteous cause of fighting and defeating fascism in Europe (not to mention ending the holocaust) to children sold into slavery.  It’s a disgusting comparison, and also an apt summation of Vonnegut’s entire career.

I went on to read some of his other books (Cat’s Cradle, Breakfast of Champions and Mother Night) and found them all, with the exception of Mother Night (which I thoroughly enjoyed), to be evidence of an author more concerned with being an edgy member of the literary avant garde than a story teller.

He was heralded by those in ivory towers as being a genius, but all I ever saw was a frothing-at-the-mouth nut who laid claim to the title of “literary giant” but was really one of those authors everyone claims to like but few have actually read.  Vonnegut once claimed that the rest of the world hates America as they once hated Hitler’s Nazi regime, and (in his words) “for good reason.”

A statement which tells you pretty much all you need to know about the man that was Kurt Vonnegut.

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Comments

Avatar for Hawk

Kurt Vonnegut was brilliant and understood war as you never will.  Maybe that is why you didn’t get him.

Hawk on April 11, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Avatar for Jeffrey

Please remember that Vonnegut himself was one of those soldiers fighting in that righteous cause, and was writing largely from personal experience. If he had strong opinions regarding our current military adventure, it was because he had seen firsthand the brutality and carnage of battle. As a POW, he was also a survivor of the firebombing of Dresden, and saw the effect that even a righteous war could have on innocent civilians.

Jeffrey on April 12, 2007 at 12:45 am

Rob supports the war in Iraq from his desk on the computer.

Graeme on April 12, 2007 at 01:42 am

Mother Night is a bitching book about war. Interview by Playboy with Joe Heller and Vonnegut here.


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 12, 2007 at 04:06 am

I saw him speak at Amherst College in western Mass in 2000. He is a total nutjob. Not a dumb one. He’s one of those people-hating eco-nuts.


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 12, 2007 at 04:09 am
Avatar for John M.

His books are nothing but disjointed screeds against any idea he has personal quibbles with.  And they’re boring.  War is bad.  Gee, thanks Kurt.  Hadn’t thought about that before.

John M. on April 12, 2007 at 07:05 am

Interesting obit…

Zsa Zsa on April 12, 2007 at 07:21 am

John M
He wrote 27 books. Give him some credit. At least he made an effort to communicate, no matter his feelings. How many books have you written?


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 12, 2007 at 07:30 am
Avatar for Andrew

Sparkie, you still haven’t given me any book recommendations. I’m finally getting caught up on the work I’ve had. There may be some time for me to squeeze in a pleasure read.

Andrew on April 12, 2007 at 07:39 am

Andrew
You should check out ‘Cryptonomicon’ by Neal Stephenson. Its a really good, well researched, fiction. Highly recommended. Code breaking, espionage, computers, tunnel engineering, gold, girls. Yup.


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 12, 2007 at 07:55 am

...if you are into heavy, bizarre reading, check out ‘Infinite Jest’. Its like Pynchon meets Proust meets Aldous Huxley. The guy who wrote it has a unique style and he’s brilliant. You have to be patient though, it doesn’t begin to cohere until past page 400-450 somewhere. Some of it is written in future trailer trash dialect too, so its a bit slow going at points.

If you want a good Vonnegut read, try ‘Mother Night’. Its a quick historical fiction about ethics. Kinda dark humor I guess. Its very creative to say the least.


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 12, 2007 at 07:59 am

Kurt:

If I should die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC

WOOF on April 12, 2007 at 08:20 am

Graeme: I fought in Vietnam, my grandson and nephew are serving in the Corps in Iraq today; yet I agree with Rob about the War in Iraq and about Vonnegut. Since one of us fought and one of us perhaps did not; and yet we agree, why does not serving make Rob wrong?

Hawk: As usual Hawk your depth of understanding anything about anything is razor thin. I absolutely guarantee you that my family, which has on both sides, defended this country since the American Revolution; my father was Captain of a Navy Ship in the Pacific in WW-II, my eldest brother in Korea, my brother and I Vietnam, and my grandson and newphew in Iraq and a personal loss I choose not to talk about with people like you; and yet we would all say Vonnegut was an extreme, Left Wing liberal, anti-American asshole, and his reputation as a great writer is based solely on his embracing liberalism, his hatred of everything American and his being promoted, lauded and embraced by the left and the MSM.

“Vonngut’s spoken word is consistent with his fiction and nonfiction. In an interview, he said of George Orwell, “I like his socialism” (Clancy 53). He said in a commencement speech at Bennington College, “I suggest that you work for a socialist form of government ... It isn’t moonbeams to talk of modest plenty for all. They have it in Sweden”(168). In an address at Wheaton College, he even quoted Karl Marx approvingly: “From each according to his abilities. To each according to his needs” (217). When asked in an interview how he would have campaigned against Nixon, he responded, “I would have set the poor against the rich” [Class Warfare, a favorite of the Democrat Party](“Playboy” 273).

Vonnegut: Was not just an atheist, he was passionaetly hostile to people of faith; he was not just a Liberal, he hated anyone not a liberal; he was not just a Leftist, he was a communist at heart; and he was a mediocre liberal writer using his books to advance his pessimistic hatred of America. Other than that he was a great guy.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on April 12, 2007 at 08:35 am

Neiman…God bless your grandson & nephew so much!...

Zsa Zsa on April 12, 2007 at 08:49 am

They are serving with honor and no matter what may happen to them. I will love, respect and honor them always for their service to this country.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on April 12, 2007 at 09:29 am

Me too!... I hope they all come back safely.

Zsa Zsa on April 12, 2007 at 09:31 am

‘SEMZ’ just died too:semz031011.jpg


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 12, 2007 at 09:31 am
Rob
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Please remember that Vonnegut himself was one of those soldiers fighting in that righteous cause

And Benedict Arnold was a brilliant memember of the American Revolution up until he had a change of heart.

Rob supports the war in Iraq from his desk on the computer.

I also support arresting burglars without being a police officer, and fighting fires without being a fireman.

Weird how that works, isn’t it moron?


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on April 12, 2007 at 09:47 am

[after Diane gives Thornton an ‘F’ for his report, which was actually written by Kurt Vonnegut]
Diane: Whoever *did* write this doesn’t know the first thing about Kurt Vonnegut!
[cut to Thornton’s dorm suite]
Thornton Melon: [on the phone] ... and *another* thing, Vonnegut! I’m gonna stop payment on the check!
[Kurt tells him off]
Thornton Melon: F__k me? Hey, Kurt, can you read lips, *f__k you*! Next time I’ll call Robert Ludlum!
[hangs up]

electnixon on April 12, 2007 at 10:09 am

According to the CIA Factbook, the US records an annual death rate of approximately 8.26 per thousand of population, or 2,478,000 per year, or, on average, 6790 deaths on any given day.

I cannot imagine that the death of Kurt Vonnegut is of any more significance than those of the other 6789 persons who died yesterday.


“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Bat One on April 12, 2007 at 10:15 am

Bat One: Amen! Preach it brother! There are only a few people, in my opinion, that have made a significant enough contribution to the world while alive, to deserve such attention at their death.

In the past 16 years I have lost my mother, father, eldest brother, eldest sister, and my son. They were of very great importance to me; but beyond our family circle unknown but to God. Vonnegut made a good living writing socialist trash and if liberals are in mourning that’s fine, to me his death is of no real importance to my life.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on April 12, 2007 at 10:30 am
Avatar for CV Rick

It’s possible to appreciate great talent despite ideological differences.  It’s also possible to appreciate personal experience, to recognize expertise, even when that expertise is coming from a “camp” from which you are in diametric opposition.

What Vonnegut experienced and what he saw, combined with his talent and training, made him the only person who could have authored the stories that he did.  Quite contrary to your own experience with his body of work, I found his style approachable.  He had a conversation with the reader, carrying on a dialog supported by the plot and characters.

Perhaps you should glance at his short story, Harrison Bergeron, as an example of traditional story telling in an idealogical bent you’d enjoy more.

CV Rick on April 12, 2007 at 04:09 pm

For all those who are looking for a good read, I just finished reading “Long Way Gone-Memoirs of a Boy Soldier” by Ismael Bael.  It is an autobiography of his life as a boy soldier in Sierra Leone and his way back out to becoming a citizen of the United States and Oberlin College graduate. He is in his early twenties.

What a story! You will have a pit in your stomach for most of the book.

Puzzlefeet on April 12, 2007 at 05:02 pm
Avatar for Gary Denton

Kurt Vonnegut was a pessimistic but funny humanist and actually stuck up for dumbasses like Rob.

Gary Denton on April 13, 2007 at 05:20 am

A “humanist,” huh?  Isn’t that another word for a progressive Democrat who dropped out of college when the student loans ran out?


“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Bat One on April 13, 2007 at 06:48 am
Avatar for CannedAm

It makes perfect sense that his alternate title for Slaughterhouse 5 would have been the Children’s Crusade.  The majority of soldiers on the fronts of any of our wars are children. And once they get there they realize, “oh hell, this isn’t a John Wayne movie…it’s a HORROR” but they’ve been indentured to the government and have to stay until maimed, killed, or their indenture expires. Sure, maybe it’s a bit of evolution at work there:  weeding out the weak and the feeble and the feeble minded from the herd.  In times of war the requirements to gain entry to the American military are dropped to astonishingly low levels.  This allows us to send our dumbest and poorest children off to fight for the oil we need to run our Hummers to corner store three times a week. 

There is no honour in grand scale murdering.  There is no greater good to come of it. 

Those of you who spoke against Mr. Vonnegut have clearly never read him. 

Jesus was the first most popular Socialist, but I bet you love him. 

Kurt was just a human, helping me, and the rest of the human-loving populace to get through this thing, whatever it is. 

Sounds like a few of you could use a bit of that help.

CannedAm on April 13, 2007 at 09:19 am
Rob
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The majority of soldiers on the fronts of any of our wars are children.

I’d sure like to see you roll up to some Marine or Army grunt and call him/her a child.

Seriously.  I’d pay for admission.

There is no honour in grand scale murdering.  There is no greater good to come of it.

Right.  Better we sit back and let thugs like Hitler and bin Laden kill until their satisfied.  That way we won’t have any blood on our hands.

Those of you who spoke against Mr. Vonnegut have clearly never read him.

I’ve read four of his books, and plenty of his columns and other works.  Are you really saying that Vonnegut was above reproach?  That he was some sort of perfect saint?

People actually capable of critical thought don’t operate under such delusions.

Jesus was the first most popular Socialist, but I bet you love him.

I’m an atheist, so I don’t have any special love for Jesus (though I appreciate certain aspects of his teachings) but calling him a socialist was laughable.  Dude lived 2,000 years ago.  To think that he had any sort of insight into modern commerce and government is laughable.

Seriously.  I’m laughing at you.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on April 13, 2007 at 09:37 am

CannedAm
Jesus was a socialist! I think that’s why Hitler liked him so much!


For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Sparkie Arbuckle on April 13, 2007 at 09:38 am

Jesus spoke about individual responsibility and charity; I challenge you to find any passage wherein he encouraged the state to redistribute wealth, control all aspects of production and distribution, advocated an end to private property or the exploitation of workers to create a workers state.

Hitler, Stalin, Hillary and many others often claim to be Christians, but by their policies and portions of their personal lives they are promoting things and living in ways wholly contradictory to Christian teachings.

Germans were mostly professing Christians as an expression of their religious faith and so Hitler, being a politician claimed to fight for Christ, for any denial of Christ would have denied him the support of the German people; while he set about to annihilate by murder the people of God the Jews, believed in the occult and was surely ruled by the Prince of Darkness. Sparkie can claim to be a Chrysler New Yorker and maybe even enjoy frequent oil changes, but I doubt you will see him on showroom floors being sold as a vehicle.

These references to Hitler and Christ are asinine in the extreme and the product of very unhealthy mindss.


In keeping silent about evil, in burying it deep within us, so that it appears nowhere on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousandfold in the future.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago

Neiman on April 13, 2007 at 10:01 am
Avatar for Rob WV

Better we sit back and let thugs like Hitler and bin Laden kill until their satisfied.  That way we won’t have any blood on our hands.

Er…

You did sit back and let Hitler do what he wanted until the Japs bombed your Navel base and you suddenly realised you were in range of the Axis forces.

You were quicker on the uptake with Bin Laden but not as successful so far.

Rob WV on April 13, 2007 at 01:39 pm
Rob
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You did sit back and let Hitler do what he wanted until the Japs bombed your Navel base and you suddenly realised you were in range of the Axis forces.

Isolationism sucks, doesn’t it?  That “sit back and watch Hitler” incident is why I oppose isolationist foreign policy today.  Which is a big part of why I support the war in Iraq.

You were quicker on the uptake with Bin Laden but not as successful so far.

Millions liberated, bin Laden living in a cave, Saddam hung like a horse thief and international terrorist organizations so busy dealing with our troops in the middle east that they don’t have time to attack us here at home…I’d say we’ve done pretty well.


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on April 13, 2007 at 01:58 pm
Avatar for artsy

Anyone that posts here must care about Vonneguts’ death. Why is anyone criticizing a dead man anyways? The bad talking people are just taunting the rest of you. They truly love Vonneguts’ work, they just like little useless fights. It’s the only thing they’re good at. What else can you do with your human experience?

artsy on April 17, 2007 at 04:05 pm
Rob
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For someone laying claim to the nickname “artsy” that comment certainly wasn’t artfully written.

(I crack myself up)


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on April 17, 2007 at 04:32 pm
Avatar for artsy

caught me, its a fake nickname. And i’m not human. And I hate all art. There are no good writers. I’m waiting for the first good artist to be born, but it hasn’t happend yet.  The word artist shouldn’t even have been invented yet.

artsy on April 17, 2007 at 05:04 pm
Rob
Rob
22120 comments
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And i’m not human.

Well what are you then, a koala?


The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Rob on April 17, 2007 at 05:33 pm
Avatar for artsy

a fartsy koala. I like that.
oh, excuse me.
I gotta go. I don’t even know why I’m here.
peace out
enjoy life
I gotta go make love

artsy on April 17, 2007 at 05:38 pm
Avatar for Nasty Neocon

I hated Vonnegut. He claimed to hate war but he seemed to seek death. He was my father’s age but he never joined the army until he was drafted. My father enlisted at 17 and saw 5x the combat he did. I fought in Vietnam.  Neither of us were war lovers, but we had no use for a suicidal drunk and “pacifist” like him.  Look around you - Vonnegut, Heller, Mailer and all the “great” antiwar writers have accomplished nothing. “God bless” him?  He was a “humanist”. He didn’t believe in God, which was his right. However, I can only hope that he was wrong and is now in Purgatory, regretting what a fool he was for the next 84 years.

So we weren’t totally pure during WWII. Nobody ever is.  That still doesn’t make us as bad as the Nazis. If he suffered terror and horror during Dresden, it was what he deserved for doing “the sensible thing” (as he liked to brag) and surrendering (which I don’t really blame him for). His being captured was no loss to the army. He probably thought he was out of the war and glad of it. Well, it didn’t work out that way. Tough bananas!

Take a really good look at yourselves, hypocrites. Just how much did Vonnegut change you? If you became an embittered, fatalistic drunk who attempted suicide like him, he did nothing for you. If his long life was a punishment to him, I’m glad. This country is turning into a nation of Italians and Swedes!

Nasty Neocon on May 1, 2007 at 09:45 am
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