Kopp Column: Which Came First, The Cultural Chicken Or The Political Egg?

547318_3106948476277_360395873_n

Logically, in the natural world, I’ve always believed the chicken came first. It’s logical.

Historically it’s also logical that culture precedes politics. Pat Buchanan wrote recently that conservatives believe culture determines politics; liberals believe politics change culture. That is one of the reasons liberals are so quick to run to mommy government to tattle on people they don’t like and demand mommy government act. They cry, “there oughta be a law…”

Sadly, our mother government agrees. It’s why a small sliver of a mis-guided liberal minority can successfully drive a wedge between church and state, freedom and responsibility, morals and policies.

Conservatives believe that culture leads politics. Culture is the chicken that produces the political egg.

It was the culture of America’s founding fathers that was reflected in the formation of America and her formative documents The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. The culture they created in the new land reflected their commonly held beliefs in a higher moral order, the restraints of government, the rights of personal property and the equality of humans.

Recently we’ve seen bully liberals push politics to their own liking, crying to mommy government about things they do not like, such as a reminder of a higher moral order. A microscopic minority pressed for the removal of Christ from Christmas displays. They believe that if only there were a law, a rule, a decision against putting Christ in Christmas, that they could avoid being offended by the seasonal reminder of the reason God gave His only Son. (Personally, I would guess many of these same people who say society needs protection from the offense of religion also believe society needs to be exposed to shocking offensive art that includes a crucifix in urine, or the free expression of homosexual acts. It is my guess if you were to say those things are offensive, the “Anti-Christ in Christmas” crowd would rail against you.)

Culture changes our nation’s policies, but it’s not a brazen hypocritical demand for mommy government to make a law. We saw in the last election how culture affected criminal law in Colorado and Washington – the decriminalization of marijuana.

When culture changes politics it’s not instantaneous. Perhaps you remember how college campuses of the 60’s and 70’s attempted a minority-fueled attempt at legalizing pot. They failed. However, the seeds of success were sown as culture changed which then changed politics. 50 years ago, it was said “Today’s pot smokers are tomorrow’s lawmakers.” While that statement in and of itself reflects the liberal belief that change in America can come from the top down, what actually happened is culture produced pressure from the bottom up to reform state laws. Culture changed politics.

Since November, conservative writers have expressed outrage over the successful demands of a microscopic few to remove Christ from Christmas. They also have acknowledged that the pressure from culture to legalize pot is becoming a reality.

That is why conservatives believe that the fight to maintain America as the exceptional nation she is, the land that I love, is not as much a political fight as it is a fight for the hearts, souls, spirits and minds of individual Americans. Conservatives believe in the value of humans and of human culture as a mighty force. Conservatives know that grassroots changes can bring about successful changes in America’s policies.

Mike Kopp has exercised his political muscle as a media director to two statewide campaigns, a television political reporter, a lobbyist, and staff assistant to the Senate Majority Leader. He is currently a communications contractor working from his home in Wilton, ND.

Related posts

  • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

    …Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly
    proclaimed it to the Nation.

    …Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

    http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html

    • Thresherman

      “those who wished to deny that the United States as a government has any special regard for the Christian religion…[have ] almost invariably failed to call attention to the fact that the treaty was superseded, less than a decade later, by another ‘Treaty of Peace and Amity,’ signed in Tripoli June 4, 1805, in which the clause in question…is omitted.”

      Historian Anson Phelps Stokes

      Author of the three volume Church and State in the United States

      So RBB, if the clause you cite is so important, why was it later omitted?

      • Neiman

        Gay Bob relies on this treaty to hopefully kill the idea we were ever a Christian nation and he omits the many statements by many of our Founding Fathers that we were a nation of Christian Colonies and while never a theocracy, nor did we ever have a State religion, we were from our founding until 1948 mostly a Christian people and thus in spirit a Christian nation.

        Please notice Gay Bob can only copy/paste, as he fears ever trying to make any arguments for or against anything, knowing he will be exposed to criticism and exposure of his false arguments.

        • $8194357

          Gay bob is an enemy of the state as well as Christian decency…

          • Neiman

            You’ll get no argument from me.

          • ellinas1

            Neiman has stated that all religions and Christian denominations may have an influence in the governance of the USA.
            Do you agree with that statement?

          • Neiman

            This has nothing to do with the subject of the thread, your advanced ADD is showing AGAIN.

            Having an influence retard is about their having equal access to power via the ballot box and other Constitutional means, it does not imply equal results or that our representatives are forced to seriously consider their attempts to influence them. Yes, even you antichristian folk, your fellow travelers in witchcraft and satanism, all may try and influence the government, but only liberals demand they receive equal results. It is like Chaplains in the Congress, every faith may appeal for appointments to those posts, but there is no guarantee the Congress must give them an equal number of appointments or any appointments at all; but, liberals demand no matter how antiamerican or antichristian they are, they must have equal appointments in numbers and have an equal chance to evangelize the Congress.

          • ellinas1

            Mr. Neiman, sir.

            It has a lot to do with the article.
            If you do not understand, ask and I will explain it to you.
            Name calling is not befitting nor benefiting someone that proclaims his Christian values every five minutes.
            I am asking you, brother to brother to please refrain from engaging in such an UN-Christian activity.

          • Neiman

            See, I was right to be critical of you – I have told you multiple times we are not in any way, shape, manner or form brothers. I have told you multiple times until you clearly confess Jesus as your only Savior and your absolute Lord, stop supporting homosexuality as not being a sin and stop supporting mass baby murder (abortion) I cannot consider you a Christian at all and cannot accept your self-serving corrections.

            I have never claimed perfection, only being saved, born again and free from all condemnation.

            Actually, being a liberal and in touch with your feminine side, you like the women I work with cannot understand a man’s humor. I love my black, 6’4″ 285 lbs linebacker grandson just about more than anyone on earth and I use similar language towards him and in love. I also use the same humor with the mechanics at the School District Shop and the maintenance guys doing the work around our school. It may seem strange to you, but that is how real men joke around and much worse. When together with these guys we warn everyone, don’t come around here if you want respect or cannot tolerate being ragged on.

          • ellinas1

            Well sir, your views as to what constitutes a brother in the name of our Lord Jesus are wrong.
            May the Holy Spirit enlighten you, and guide your actions and words.

          • Neiman

            A Christian is a person that (a) admits they are a sinner worthy of hell, (b) they repent of those sins in search of forgiveness, (c) they accept Jesus, by faith alone, as their only Savior and the absolute Lord of their lives. That is basic and not negotiable IMO.

            If they still fail and falter and struggle, as I do daily, they whereby the above are born again of His Spirit, having His life in them and they remain members of the Body of Christ, part of the family of God and my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. What separates them is that they do not cover up sin and when they sin they are immediately convicted by the Holy Spirit and trust in Him to help them grow stronger in their relationship to Christ. How can that be true with a person that does not think abortion and homosexuality are, unrepented, mortal sins? How can that be true of anyone that says they are a Christian and rejoices in attacking brothers in Christ when they fall and defend those of the world for doing the same things?

          • $8194357

            Ephesians 5: 11

            11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness,
            but rather expose them.

            John 12:34-36
            New King James Version (NKJV)

            34 The people answered Him,
            “We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever;
            and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’?
            Who is this Son of Man?”

            35 Then Jesus said to them,
            “A little while longer the light is with you.
            Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you;
            he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going.

            36 While you have the light, believe in the light,
            that you may become sons of light.”
            These things Jesus spoke, and departed,
            and was hidden from them.

            The New Man

            17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord,
            that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk,
            in the futility of their mind,

            8 having their understanding darkened,
            being alienated from the life of God,
            because of the ignorance that is in them,
            because of the blindness of their heart;

            19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

            20 But you have not so learned Christ,

            21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him,
            as the truth is in Jesus:

            22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct,
            the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,

            23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,

            24 and that you put on the new man which was
            created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

            Do Not Grieve the Spirit

            25 Therefore,
            putting away lying,
            “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,”
            for we are members of one another.

            26 “Be angry, and do not sin”:
            do not let the sun go down on your wrath,

            27 nor give place to the devil.

            28 Let him who stole steal no longer,
            but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good,
            that he may have something to give him who has need.

            29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth,
            but what is good for necessary edification,
            that it may impart grace to the hearers.

            30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God,
            by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

            31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor,
            and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.

            32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted,
            forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

            Ephesians 5
            New King James Version (NKJV)
            Walk in Love

            1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children.

            2 And walk in love,
            as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us,
            an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

            3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness,
            let it not even be named among you,
            as is fitting for saints;

            4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting,
            which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

            5 For this you know,
            that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man,
            who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom
            of Christ and God.

            6 Let no one deceive you with empty words,
            for because of these things the wrath of God comes
            upon the sons of disobedience.

            7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

            Walk in Light

            8 For you were once darkness,
            but now you are light in the Lord.
            Walk as children of light

            9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness,
            righteousness, and truth),

            10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.

            11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works
            of darkness, but rather expose them.

            12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which
            are done by them in secret.

            13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.

            14 Therefore He says:

            “Awake, you who sleep,
            Arise from the dead,
            And Christ will give you light.”

          • $8194357

            Every idiot the democrats can get to who can cast a vote, so Yes I suppose hes right.

          • ellinas1

            Oh, I agree he is right.
            But would you like it if the Sephardi Jews had more say in the affairs of our government versus the Christians?

          • mike

            “may” as a possibility as in “might have?”
            or
            “may” as in permission to do so?

          • ellinas1

            I do not know. Ask Neiman.

          • ellinas1

            Jesus’ words: “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good,
            and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those
            who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors
            doing that?
            And if you greet only your brothers, what are you
            doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect,
            therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

          • $8194357

            Every time you use Scripture to reprove me E…
            I see your favorite picture of a donkey..
            Remove that log from your own eye, huh.

          • Neiman

            He rarely uses the Bible to support his faux Christian claims and when I come back with passages correcting him, he ignores them and relies 99% on his liberal emotions and used the Bible.

            It is not just a log, it is a giant Sequoia sized tree.

          • ellinas1

            Mr. Neiman. This morning a group of Jehovah’s witlessness knocked on my door. You should hear them cite bible passages in support of their views….your point again sir?

          • Neiman

            Actually, you are bull shi*ting. Jehovah Witnesses do not even believe in Jesus, they think he is Michael the Archangel, but nice try at demeaning my faith. Of course, I expect such fibs from you.

            I have to add that I hear from a Mormon Missionary to Puerto Rico by email every week, with updates on her missionary efforts. She really seems on fire for the Lord and their Bishops can preach the Salvation message better than most Protestants, the best message I ever heard on the Holy Spirit was by their current Prophet. Only problem, like the JW’s, they serve another Jesus, a false Christ. The Devil is like that, he can preach the Gospel like nobodies business, just has a false christ though and twists the truth just enough to steal mens souls.

            So, what is your point again?

          • ellinas1

            I am in the process of removing that log from my own eye.
            Now forget that donkey, and forgive me for my transgressions.

            PS: My shortcomings not withstanding, those are words to live by.

          • $8194357

            Try letting the Holy Spirit do the removal..
            Works way better than a carnal mans effort…..

          • ellinas1

            I am in the process of removing that log from my own eye with ample and unlimited guidance from the Holy Spirit.
            Now forget that donkey, and forgive me for my transgressions.

            PS: My shortcomings not withstanding, those are words to live by.

        • Thresherman

          I think that he fails to possess the ability to think critically and this is an example of that. He liked what it said and didn’t think about it any further.

          He cites Gould’s assertion that , “John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation” as if Art. 11 was the entirety of the treaty. But let’s consider John Adams for a moment. At the drafting of the Declaration of Independence, there was no more ardent enemy of slavery than John Adams, yet the Declaration omits the end of slavery and Adams signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the nation. If we were to follow RBB’s logic, that would mean that Adams was now a supporter of slavery. But that is far from the truth, Adams was as much opposed to slavery as ever, but he had to chose between a United States of America with slavery or no United States of America at all. Adams chose the former and given the options at hand, only a dithering idiot would say he chose poorly.

          Now moving forward to the treaty at hand. Adams and the Senate did not write the treaty and could not modify it. They had to accept it or reject it. Given the amount of time it took to reach this point, what with the means of transport at the time and length of negotiations and considering the benefit that would derive from it, they pragmatically accepted it and then when opportunity arose later, they re-framed it without the offensive article.

          Unfortunately, in Bob’s reality, this could have never happened as it complicates his simplistic view and renders it unrealistic.

          • Neiman

            One of the things I like about blogging and SAB in particular, is that wait a while and someone will have the facts and give lie to the asinine assertions and misuse of facts by the Left. Will your excellent responses change Gay Bob’s mind, my temptation would be to ask what mind, the truth is that he is a deluded Leftist and will simply ignore the facts and go on blissfully thinking he is right.

          • Thresherman

            Einstein once said that “Education is the process of teaching people to think.” I was fortunate enough to have teachers that embraced that ideal. Contrast that with what many teachers believe is the purpose of education today, and you begin to understand why so many people hold the opinions that they do.

      • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

        Why was it unanimously approved by our founding fathers a decade earlier?

        • Thresherman

          Uh, Bob, if you are going to engage in the tired old liberal diverting tactic of answering a question with a question, you really should try to ask one that already hasn’t been answered. I went over that in a post here about an hour before you even asked it.

          But you still owe me an answer Bob.

      • ellinas1

        I give up. Why?

        PS: The clause may have been omitted, but a clause declaring the USA a Christian nation was not included.
        So Thresherman. Yes, the clause you cite was omitted, but why a new clause declaring the USA a Christian nation was not included?

    • Mike

      An isolated quote in and of itself does not prove a position. Certainly it is not a valid argument against a position that was not declared.
      Mr. Realitybasebob you have attempted to use what is commonly called a “straw man argument” defining the position of the first person in a way that the first person has not defined for themselves in their position. The straw man, built by the second person then labels the straw man as the first person. The newly created straw man is one that is easily taken apart, which is the goal of the second person who uses the straw man. In the end, the points made by the first person are ignored and the first person, now identified as a straw man must choose to defend the newly invented straw man or laugh at the person who attempts a straw man argument.
      I am laughing.

      • ellinas1

        An isolated it is but this quote that speaks volumes.

      • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

        Mr. Mike, I’m sorry to see you consider the words of our founding fathers, voted on unanimously in the affirmative, to be trivial enough to consider them as ‘an isolated quote’. Which other words from them would you place in that column? Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

        • Mike

          It would be futile at this time to engage in a sword fight, as it were, of quotes slashed about in a wild fury of verbal fencing. Isolated quotes taken out of historical, cultural context are ammunition for quarrelsome people and of no use for thinking people. They are useful only for generating flashing sparks of contention.

          • ellinas1

            If you think his words are out of context, than please feel free to put them in context.

          • mike

            I would surely do just that in the proper setting or forum. This blog would not allow justice to be served to examine the historical, cultural, grammatical context from which you have selected an isolated quote. I would welcome that opportunity to examine our divergent and contrary views in the right setting or forum.

          • ellinas1

            Well Mr. Mike, I live in Stockton California, and unless you are from nearby it is unlikely that an opportunity would arise to examine our divergent and contrary views in the right setting or forum.

            Until that happens, this forum is just fine.
            In the meantime I am waiting for you to put those words in their proper context.

          • $8194357

            E….
            Whats up with you and rbb and the Mr. Mike…
            Mr..Neiman
            Mr…Who ever crap?
            It is sooooo phoney it reeks…

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Gun Nut, perhaps your anger would be more appropriately aimed at the person who started it, namely Mr. Mike.

            Mr. Realitybasebob you have attempted…

            Nutters crack me up.

          • $8194357

            Boob..
            You crack me up…
            Why do you always “project hate” on those who
            dissagree with your leftist dribble?

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Gun Nut, if you’d like for us to ignore your most recent mistake, that’s ok, I will understand.

          • $8194357

            Speaking of mistakes…
            did ya get Di Fi’s up coming gun ban legislation list?
            Anything semi auto or can take a clip…
            Stupid is as a leftist does momma always used to say boob…
            And ‘you’ were so sure the left wouldn’t do that huh..

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Oh silly Gun Nut, I wrote about handguns, not semi automatic weapons or large cap clips. Do you get anything right?

          • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

            Maybe you should actually read what Di-Fi’s proposing before you cackle, Nutterbob. She includes handguns.

          • $8194357

            Oh silly leftist indoctrinated boob…
            Time for your lesson in termonology again?
            All hand guns consist of several groups..
            derringer
            revolver
            pistol (semi auto)
            All pistols have magazines…
            (therefore cabable of the dreaded ‘high capacity’)
            Di Fi and boob are thus joined at the hip with their delusional fear of
            “hand guns” in all their verious forms….

          • $8194357

            Denile…The religious state of a leftist…..

            The Dems lie every time their lips move………..

            http://lastresistance.com/874/

            Dianne Feinstein’s “Assault Weapons Ban” actually aims to do more than just ban automatic “assault” rifles. The California Senator summarizes her 2013 bill here on her website:

            “[The bill] bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of: 120 specifically-named firearms; certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one or more military characteristics; and Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.”

            Writing for Breitbart, Awr Hawkins points out that her bill will ban many popular handguns:

            “That’s right, after all the criticism of the AR-15 and the holier-than-thou speeches about how no one needs a military-style rifle with a 30-round magazine the details of the ban betray a gun grab that includes semi-automatic pistols that use “a detachable magazine” and have “one military characteristic.” This can only mean that the most popular handguns in the world for both civilian and military use are being targeted. These would include Glocks, Sig Sauers, Smith & Wesson M&Ps, H&K, and Colt, yet would by no means be limited to these handguns alone.”

            Feinstein’s 2013 bill is in direct opposition to opinion polls that media and government officials claim to represent to justify more laws. Gallup just did a poll about a week after the Sandy Hook murder, and people’s opposition to a handgun ban is at an all time high. 74% of those who were questioned stated that they did not think there should be any ban on handguns. Conversely, those in favor of such a ban were at an all-time low of 24%, the lowest it had ever been since Gallup first asked the question back in 1959.
            If Gallup’s poll is truly representative of Americans’ opinions, I don’t think Feinstein’s bill stands much of a chance as it’s written now. It’s too drastic. I imagine a ban on so-called assault rifles would unfortunately succeed, but not a ban on handguns. Not yet. They’ll need a few more media-sensationalized massacres committed with handguns before they’ll try to ban them. Of course, it’s not like they’ve never shoved through “emergency” legislation before in spite of public opposition. I just think in this case, there’s too much at stake politically for the Democrats to actually enact a handgun ban. Hopefully, it will fail, but it will for sure be resurrected at the next opportune time.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
            Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment;
            Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes; and
            Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons.

            http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons

          • $8194357

            Whats ‘hunting’ got to do with the second ammendment
            oh wise leftist sage? It was put in place as a hedge against government tyranny and says:
            “Shall not be infringed”….
            Pretty plain talk from the old timers.
            Thats why you leftists can’t understand it…
            It says what it means and means what it says…..

          • Neiman

            He mostly disagrees with you because He passionately hates Christ in you. Gay Bob is a demon possessed, pathological liar and first class hater. Remember 7P62 – it is not you, it is Christ he hates so much, because he sold his soul to the devil a long time ago and wants to silence you, to use you to attack your Lord. He is filth!

            Under another thread, Ellinas and I were having a very decent discussion and were able to break through some barriers and change our approaches to better communicate. Gay Bob cannot stand it, so this morning he has done everything he can by his lies to make sure he can sow seeds of strife and division – he is a strife maker.

            Ignore him, I wish I would more often.

          • $8194357

            I hope that is true…
            That he senses Christ and His Truth about me…

          • Neiman

            We are all frail, we all stumble and could be better witnesses; but as you know, that is not the criteria for salvation. It is rather, we sinful, hell bound people being convicted of our sins, repenting of those sins and accepting Jesus as our Savior and Lord. That is all and we are then born again of His Spirit into new life and progressing at different rates, being transformed into the image of Christ.

            We are not the best judges, I recall my wife and I having a verbal fight just before Church one Sunday and after services we were telling another couple how ashamed we felt, another person heard it and was astonished, saying she did not believe it because she always saw Jesus and His love in us. So, it has nothing to do with how you feel or anything about your failures, I see Jesus in you and the demon spirits in Gay Bob see them too and rebel against you, because they hate all of God’s children.

            Relax, Jesus comes through you words, even when like mine occasionally, far too often really, we could choose kinder words and avoid striking back at the foolishness of others.

          • $8194357

            Yes sir..
            It is really His ministry, not mine..

          • Neiman

            Yep! Good thing he likes the weak, frail vessels for His work or we would both be in trouble.

          • $8194357

            Yup

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            As opposed to your ideology, Old Pal, I hate no one. I pity some. Like you. But hate, no, that is your self proclaimed anointment.

          • Neiman

            See what I mean 7p62 – the demons in him hate Jesus in me to, so they through him, they possess him, just cannot stop lying. He is to be pitied because if anyone ever need an exorcism it is Gay Bob.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Oh, Old Pal, do you think I’ve forgotten about your self proclaimed hatred?

            Neiman 95p · 17 minutes ago

            Remember, you started this Old Gary Racist Muslim Bob, I just hate socialist Americans, you know Democrats, Liberals, those God hating
            folk.

            That’s not very Christlike, is it, Old Pal?

          • Neiman

            How would you know what is Christlike – you are an admitted non-Christian, outside of Christ and by biblical definition an enemy of Christ and His Church. So, all attempts by you to say what or what is not Christlike comes from hellish demons in you.

            Stop murdering helpless, innocent babies by the millions and lying gays into hell, stop lying and calling me your pal and then, you may, and it is a BIG may, may have some basis for projecting any moral standards. When you reject the demons in you, you may have a chance, but right now you are just a servant of hell.

            Oh and a note to others, notice the very old quote above by Gay Bob? (a) It was not 17 minutes ago so that is a lie. (b) He deliberately omitted my follow-up comments, because of malice in his evil heart. (c) Note there are no personal names there, it refers to a category of people that all hate God by their secular beliefs. (d) Like my father in heaven I do hate my sins and all sins and those people that by their lies lead other people in Hell, just as does my Father in Heaven. (e) I am not his pal as he insists in every comment, so that too is a lie.

            Now go away Gay Bob, you are high jacking another thread to serve your raging narcissism.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Old Pal, I am a liberal Democrat. Do you hate me as you have clearly stated?

          • ellinas1

            Man of little faith and too much suspicion.

            I have resolved to do this “46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans do the same?
            47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

            and prove to Mr Neiman that it is not impossible to live up to those standards.
            If along the way I stumble, and/or take the wrong road I will confess and ask for forgiveness and continue my journey.
            God bless you and yours. Happy New year.

          • $8194357

            A brave new leftist global world we live in E.
            Its not really new…Just re-branded and sold to new fools…
            God Bless and have a Happy New Year, old Greek one…
            Easy on the Ouzo, huh.

          • Neiman

            Below Ellinas is trying to involve you late in our debate. FYI, it is about my assertion to him that no one can live the Christian faith by their own will power, by their flesh, which is condemned; but, if by grace, through faith in Christ we are born again, He can live His perfect life in and through us, to the degree we do not lose faith and resist His Spirit. This has to do with his church (Greek Orthodox) believing that being saved is progressive, we by works of the flesh can earn our salvation (we won’t know if we are saved until we die) by doing good works, wherein even Gay Bob, an admitted non-Christian is still a Christian and saved anyway, because as far as Ellinas is concerned, Gay Bob is a really good man, who does many good Christian works.

            I share this only because he is drawing you into something wherein you are in the dark about our discussions.

            I have tried to cool things with Ellinas and we have been having less volatile conversations; but again fyi, I noticed the changed tone which was not genuine, the same for his season greetings; but, getting past that I would rather have civil conversations than not.

          • $8194357

            Many a ‘religous’ Christian falls to the fallicy of works unto Salvation.
            Works are an important part to any true Christian, but with the understanding they are Christs works, His ministry and Salvation thru Grace and Faith..
            Devil is indeed in the details of most things, IMHO…

          • Neiman

            Mike, Gay Bob has been thoroughly an accurately schooled by you and Thresherman here about the line that the antichristian Gay Bob loves so much, being omitted in a later version of the treaty. He cannot deny that all the evidence points to our Founding Fathers and our people from the Puritans to FDR and that pig Hugo Black, by faith, for all intent and purposes were Christian, though not officially a Christian nation, we were a mostly Christian people.

            Gay Bob hates Christianity, he is a deluded deceiver, you will never get through to him with the truth, he hates the Truth.

        • Thresherman

          “our founding fathers” Bob? In 1796, it was the 5th United State Congress and very few had anything to do with the Declaration of Independence or the Constitutional Convention. Yet you keep harping about “founding fathers” like Washington and Franklin issued a press release. Your argument is weak and you need to falsely use the phrase “founding fathers” here to make it seem that it is more that it really is.

          And then there is your failure to answer my question about why the article was dropped from the following treaty. If it was all that you claim it to be, it should have been included, yet it was not. This gets to the heart of the matter and calls into question whether the this represented the opinion and views of Adams and the 5th US Congress or not. This is a big fat hole in the middle of your argument and your continued efforts to ignore it shows that you know it too.

          So, Bob, either answer the question or concede the point. Be it known that your continuing to ignore the question in fact means that you are conceding the point.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            There were quite a few Barbary Treaties and as far as I know, only the first one proclaimed: …”the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”.

            It was not “dropped” as you claim, as each Treaty was it’s own entity.

            If you’d like to continue to pretend it wasn’t approved unanimously by our founders, well, they created a free country where people can just believe any damn thing they want to believe. Take Pox for example.

      • Neiman

        He was slapped down hard by Thresherman with solid facts.

  • Hal

    It’s just like the microscopic minority of sex perverts telling us homosexuality and same gender marriage are normal and wholesome. They run to government for support, and government tells us we must celebrate perversion in the name of tolerance and diversity.

    • Mike

      Exactly.

  • Neiman

    APPLAUSE IS DUE FOR THIS:

    It was the culture of America’s founding fathers that was reflected in
    the formation of America and her formative documents The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. The culture they created in the new land reflected their commonly held beliefs in a higher moral order, the restraints of government, the rights of personal property and the equality of humans.

    That is why conservatives believe that the fight to maintain America as
    the exceptional nation she is, the land that I love, is not as much a political fight as it is a fight for the hearts, souls, spirits and minds of individual Americans. Conservatives believe in the value of humans and of human culture as a mighty force. Conservatives know that grassroots changes can bring about successful changes in America’s policies.

    If only conservative politicians could frame the debate in such reasonable and clear ways, we might still have a chance. Sadly, I see none of them talking in such ways, not any of them.

    • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

      Conservative Culture:

      “How many times must I say I don’t care if this Marine gets him some from this publicity craving slut, it is none of my business..” – Neiman

      “I guess you are too stupid to acknowledge I have said I do not care what these two do, I only questioned the importance of the story.” – Neiman 16 hrs ago

      “…after many decades of life it isn’t very hard to see what is going on here, even though I don’t really care! When a man is totally naked, with an erection, with a knife in his hand, chasing a woman down a dark alley, I assume he is not collecting for the Red Cross.” – Neiman, stating he doesn’t care about sin and quoting Dirty Harry 16hrs ago

      • Neiman

        A. This has NOTHING to do with the subject of this thread, proving my assertion that all liberals suffer from gross attention deficit disorder.
        B. The above also proves that absent any intelligent arguments, liberals divert attention to other topics wherein they think, falsely in this case, they have a better chance of winning a debate.
        C. Al the above has been proven to have been taken completely out of context, twisting it into a lie, which is also a trait of all liberals and their father in hell, twisting the facts to their own malevolent advantage.

        You seriously need to grow up and try to argue based on the facts, lying about other people only expose the depths of your loathsome character and never wins you any points. Now back to that Gay Bar Hannah, have another drink and shut up.

        • ellinas1

          Neiman a few posts above: “He, Ellinas and Gay Bob, all have issues with self loathing, they all suffer from ADD, they all refuse honest debate, preferring childish, emotional responses, which is all their intellects can handle.”

          I would like to remind Mr Neiman of these facts in order to clear any and all misconception:
          A. This has NOTHING to do with the subject of this thread, proving my assertion that conservatives suffer from gross attention
          deficit disorder.
          B. The above also proves that absent any intelligent
          arguments, conservatives divert attention to other topics wherein they think, falsely in this case, they have a better chance of winning a debate.
          C. Many conservatives forget that shit floats on top when all liquid is removed from said turd.

          • Neiman

            What a retard, you can only copy/paste what I write, having not a single original thought of your own and in every case it does not apply here. Yep, Bugs Bunny was talking about you when he declared, “What a maroon!”

            You have been slapped down for not knowing the subject of the thread and stupid comments. Not my fault, look in the mirror and you’ll see the culprit.

          • ellinas1

            You are angry and are hyperventilating, Mr. Neiman.

            Calm down in order to prevent a heart attack from occuring on this Sunday.

          • Neiman

            Bovine excrement, but that is what I expect, your being an habitual liar.

            You, Gay Bob and Hannah would do a happy dance if I dropped dead, so quit the nonsense Nancy.

          • ellinas1

            Do not project your feelings on Bob, Hanni or me, Mr Neiman.
            I would be very saddened if you dropped dead, for I don’t take pleasure in the misfortunes of others.
            I am sure your family loves you,enjoys you and needs you.
            I want and wish you to live and enjoy a long, healthy and fruitful life, and be a source of enjoyment and pride to those around you.

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          Neiman, in the same sentence:

          You seriously need to grow up and try to argue based on the facts, lying about other people only expose the depths of your loathsome character and never wins you any points. Now back to that Gay Bar Hannah, have another drink and shut up.

          Neiman, your hypocrisy and lies only reveal that you sin as much and as equal to a homosexual.

  • $8194357

    You see there is always what they “tell you”…

    And then there is “the truth”….

    Follow the money
    US intelligence indicates that Mexico is home to some 200,000 Syrian and Lebanese immigrants – most of them illegal – who were able to cross the border via an extensive web of contacts with drug cartels, both in Mexico and in other countries in South America.
    These cartel contacts smuggle illegal immigrants – including individuals affiliated with Iran, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda and other radical Islamist groups – into Mexico, placing them a virtual stone’s-throw away from the United States.
    Western intelligence agencies have been able to gather ample evidence suggesting that the drug cartels in Mexico – which are the de facto rulers of the northern districts bordering the US – are in cahoots with Islamic terror organizations, which are eager to execute attacks against American, Israeli, Jewish and western targets; but most of all, the Islamic terror groups are eager to make money, so they can fund their nefarious aspirations.
    In December 2011, the US authorities released an indictment filed against Lebanese drug lord Ayman Juma, which exposed Hezbollah’s involvement with the Los Zetas drug cartel. According to the US Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), Los Zetas is the most technologically advanced and most dangerous cartel operating in Mexico.

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2012/12/hezballah-teams-with-mexican-drug-cartels-ten-pounds-of-anthrax-in-a-medium-size-suitcase-carried-by.html

    Yeah…Lets just keep that southern boarder open and porus huh…

    • Snarkie

      So that’s what the racist morons are preaching now. Just not content until your party totally goes down in flames now are we?

      • $8194357

        What are the racist morons preaching?
        Barry alone can tell you as the supreme leader of the racist DNC…

  • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

    Any story that’s based on the premise of “children running to mommy” should not be taken seriously. Thus, this post is just another turd blossom in the never ending pile of dung that is SAB.

    • two_amber_lamps

      Any response written by Hannitard should not be taken seriously. Thus, Tranny’s post is just another turd blossom in the never ending pile of feces that it inexorably produces.

    • LastBestHope

      another turd blossom in the never ending pile of dung that is SAB

      hmm…you’re the Top Commenter on SAB.

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        I don’t post arguments or stories. I comment.

        This idiotic post is another dung heap.

        • LastBestHope

          So as the Top Commenter, who spends endless hours on SAB, you are King of the Dung Heap.

          congrats

          • $8194357

            He is SAB’s version of a a ‘masterD’bator’..

        • $8194357

          (I don’t post arguments or stories. I comment.)
          What a deluded leftist hack young hanni turd is….

          • His_Daddy

            He’s not that young. He’s closer to 50 than he is to 40.

          • $8194357

            In lap dog years?

      • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

        Yes. He brags about not having the brains to post so much as one single original thought or the balls to back it up if he did. His sitting on the sidelines and constantly criticizing those capable of doing what he is not, is typical trollish behavior.

    • Mike

      Ah-ha — a red herring/straw man response. This column is based on the premise that “culture precedes politics.”

      Tangential and supportive of that premise on which this column is based is that many Americans, though adding years to their life have not added a whit to their maturity. Now instead of running to mommy, they run to the matriarchal image of mother — the mother government. These are people who are self-centered, selfish, and childish.
      And while labeling SAB as a never ending (sic) pile of dung, yet you continue to participate in that which you consider dung. What does that say about a person who willingly participates in what that person has determined to be dung?

      • LastBestHope

        Hanni is closing in on 16,000 posts (+ the ones as Guest) It’s a pretty large commitment of time to that which the Top Commenter considers to be dung.

        I’m no Dr. (did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once) but I’d say the lad has some self-loathing issues.

        • Neiman

          He, Ellinas and Gay Bob, all have issues with self loathing, they all suffer from ADD, they all refuse honest debate, preferring childish, emotional responses, which is all their intellects can handle.

          • ellinas1

            A. This has NOTHING to do with the subject of this thread, proving my assertion that conservatives suffer from gross attention
            deficit disorder.
            B. The above also proves that absent any intelligent
            arguments, conservatives divert attention to other topics wherein they think, falsely in this case, they have a better chance of winning a debate.
            C. Many conservatives forget that shit floats on top when all liquid is removed from said turd.

          • Neiman

            Well, like your idol Gay Bob, you are getting the nonsensical copy/paste thing down pat with no need to engage your over taxed brain.

          • ellinas1

            Mr. Neiman. Thank you for your very kind comments.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Neiman, 1hr before his childish, emotional response.

            “They all refuse honest debate, preferring childish, emotional responses, which is all their intellects can handle. – Neiman

        • Mike

          Good point. To spend so much time in what one considers “dung” (refuse, garbage, manure, waste, sewage) does indeed speak to one’s view of one’s own value. i.e. Pornography — some would call it dung, garbage, manure, waste or sewage and avoid even a whiff of it. Apparently Hanni delights in exposing himself to what he considers refuse, garbage, manure, waste, sewage or dung.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Somebody needs to set the record straight. You idiots in the echo chamber just get yourself worked up in a frenzy and make yourselves dumber by the minute.

          • $8194357

            Looking in the mirror again shark bait..
            Thats ok…Stuart Smalley does that as well..
            You leftists….”almost” funny…

        • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

          That doesn’t even count his nearly 10,000 comments from the old commenting system which he refuses to claim*, plus the innumerable comments of all his sockpuppets. That’s why I say he resides in Hawaii but he lives on this blog (or at least under a bridge on this blog!)

          *Could say he ran like a scalded dog from.

      • ellinas1

        I am compelled to ask you for a direct answer.
        Should this influence (in the US government) restricted to your kind of Christians?
        Or should Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Coptic, Assyrian,
        Armenian Apostolic Church, Jacobite Syrian Christian Church, Syriac Orthodox Church, Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, Eastern Catholic Church, all the Jewish denominations, Buddhists, Shintoists, and every other assorted churches have the same influence?
        How about the Muslims? Should they have an influence or should they be excluded?
        Please feel free to elaborate on the issue.

        • Neiman

          Hey stupid Ellinas, wrong guy and wrong thread, but don’t let that stop your hate.

          • ellinas1

            Not really, Mr Neiman. This post has much to do with religion and in particular Christianity.

          • Neiman

            No it is not, you copy/pasted this response to me on another thread and it does not apply here at all. Try engaging your brain.

          • ellinas1

            My brain is engaged Mr. Neiman.
            Your desire to humiliate me is obvious.

          • Neiman

            No, not really, but as I said under another thread, I forget how sensitive emotionally liberals are, humorless and not what I, an admitted old fella, consider real men.

            As I also said elsewhere, such manly humor cause problems among women and liberal men.

        • Mike

          What is “my kind of Christian?” Please define. As this column was not written to debate, delight nor diffuse the topic of religion, I find your parry to be off-topic.

          • ellinas1

            What is your particular denomination?

            Since you don’t know allow me to explain.
            I wrote this to show that religion plays a big role in the culture of a people, and vice versa.
            Since culture and religion are intertwined (you may disagree with this, but that is the way it is) and politics and culture are also related and intertwined, there is a direct correlation among them.
            You have referenced religion in your article. Therefore I am not off topic.
            Please reread my posting and answer accordingly.

          • Mike

            Ellinas, I think I see where you are going. I appreciate your expression of your views. Thanks for sharing.

            I don’t necessarily agree that, as you say, “religion plays a big role in the culture of a people.” Our founding fathers established a system based on their culture, but that is not to say every one of the founding fathers was a Christian, a Quaker, an Anglican, a Baptist or a deist. Yet they shared the same belief system, and that was their culture. They did not necessarily come from the same religion, and certainly among those who considered themselves Christian, they were not of the same denomination.

            A “culture” is a group of people defined by their beliefs. It is a belief system that sets adherents apart from other cultures. It may be a religion, or it may be some other belief system. Within that culture there may be counter-cultures, anti-cultures or sub cultures.
            Therefore when laws legalizing marijuana were passed this fall, what once was a “sub-culture” had become a fully empowered culture. The “hippie” sub-culture of the 60’s has matured to become a culture of it’s own and I do not think that religion binds the pot culture.
            As you can see, it is possible to belong to several cultures and religion may or may not be the binding belief system.
            You asked of my particular religion. I do not see what bearing that has on whether culture or politics leads the other which was the point of this column. I am not ashamed to admit I belong to the denomination spoken of, named and referred to in the Judeo-Christian Bible.

          • ellinas1

            I did not ask for your “particular religion”.
            I asked for your particular denomination.
            The Christian denomination one belongs to is indicative of their culture and politics, especially in the USA where the population is neither homogeneous nor homogenous.

            Surely a White Anglo Saxon Protestant does not share the same culture as that of a falasha, even though their politics may be the same.

            Similarly a Catholic Christian of Italian descent, and an Orthodox Christian of Russian parentage have more in common as they share similar religious beliefs, but their political beliefs may not be the same.

            From what you wrote I must conclude that you belong to the Protestant branch of Christianity, and are an Evangelical Christian.

            Now, you and a Greek Orthodox Christian may share the same conservative political beliefs but the culture not so much.

            While the Greek may blend in well in the WASP culture, you will stand out like a fly in a cup of milk when among Greeks.

          • Neiman

            Exactly, I tried to tell him, but he is not plugged in to reality. He copied and pasted this from a response to me on another thread, like Bugs Bunny said – “what a maroon!”

          • ellinas1

            Mr. Neiman. Read my answer to Mr. Mike.
            Instead of trying to belittle me, please pay attention to the task and subject at hand.

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        A Red Herring? Sweet Jezubus that’s stupid! I didn’t change the topic, I criticized your argument style and dismissed your argument out of hand because of the over the top childishness in your tactic.

        There’s nothing to argue here, as your entire argument is a response to your own perceived paranoia, and it is not reflective of reality. Going back to the founding of this country government has always been used to curb bad behavior and influence good behavior, not culture. Do you even know what culture is?

        You idiots are stuck on brain dead. Our country is based on laws and those laws were made by Americans, Americans who sought to protect their financial interests. That’s where lawyers came from, genius. It wasn’t until later that the poor were able to afford good lawyers to defend themselves from the wealthy who used law and government to monopolize the system in their favor and threaten the poor with legal action if they so much as threatened them in any manner.

        Liberals aren’t to blame, Americans are. We created this mess together.

        Spare me with this partisan childishness.

        • $8194357

          (Spare me with this partisan childishness.)
          Caspers Alinsky 101 lessons learned…

  • Snarkie

    Yawn.

    • $8194357

      Drinking again de-based self hater…

      • Snarkie

        Before the tainted political egg came the… yawn.

Top