Say Anything Blog

What happened to the junior high kid who made a ham sandwhich for a muslim student? At least these kids are doing some creative writing…

I’m puzzled about the criminal charges, too.  That said, is it THAT wrong to suggest to young people that there are certain bounds for high school writing?  Maybe it’s OK to tell kids that the use of profanity, or the gratuitous depiction of sexuality and violence, will earn them an F?

Zsa Zsa: He was charged with a hate crime. It was stupid, a juvenile joke that was probably hurtful to others without just cause. But, that is what happens in school, these young people are going to say and do stupid things, and if no one is truly harmed, to charge the with a crime is political correctness gone crazy. If young people can’t do stupid things, what about the rest of us?

In these cases, I would think a serious talking to by the principle, involving the parents. would help the young person understand the consequences of their acts, which seems far better to me than treating them like criminals.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

This is really bizarre but typical of liberal reaction to things they don’t like.

If offensive writings are justification for disorderly conduct, there are several commentors here that could be so charged. /joking

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

No way, not a hate crime...What happens to a person charged with a hate crime? Is it a felony or worse or what?

Calling the police on a student for writing an assignment? AND then being charged? There is something really wrong with this picture.

Ahh yes, the poor teacher had his feelings hurt and the Police had to be summoned.

But God forbid anyone find anything “disturbing” on the shelf in the school library—then it’s a matter of “free speech” and the ACLU will defend the “disturber” to the Supreme Court.

I just wish they’d have named the so-called “English teacher” who was so offended.

No name, no shame.

[Feet make good soup!]

Which one of is a teacher and works in the school?  I am guessing from your responses that none of you are.  Teachers have an obligation to the students in their classroom and to their families to ensure safety in the classroom.  Students who write about violent acts need to be looked at.  As far as I’m concerned, I would rather have the “poor teacher whose feelings were hurt” report a student’s writing and err on the side of safety.  Maybe the student was writing creatively, but then again, maybe they were.  I wouldn’t want the chance taken, with the life of my child or any other child.  We have lost too many children and adults to the violence that has been occurring in schools.

Typo:  I should have written that maybe they were writing creatively, but then again, maybe they weren’t.

Whatever, Alice… When I went to school the teachers would talk to the parents first abd/or send the student to the principals office, not call the police.  Even you should see that as being a little bit extreme.

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

How do you know that didn’t occur?  How do you know that this isn’t the first time this kid did this? 

When you went to school, docdave, how many students had been killed because of a student coming in with a gun and shooting everybody?

Have you people forgot about what happened on April 16th? How many students at Virginia Tech would be alive today if Cho Seung-Hui was treated the same way when his writings were deemed disturbing?  How many students have to be killed in order to take every threat seriously? Even if the threats turn out to be nothing, why shouldn’t the safety of our children be of the utmost importance.

When I went to school the teachers would talk to the parents first abd/or send the student to the principals office, not call the police.  Even you should see that as being a little bit extreme.

I don’t think this was extreme in the least.  docdave, you grew up in a different era, things are no longer the same and the world has changed.

How many students at Virginia Tech would be alive today if Cho Seung-Hui was treated the same way when his writings were deemed disturbing?

It seems that the big thing is that until there is an actual crime there is no reason to criminally charge the guy.

Now if you wanted to refer him for psychiatric help that seems more appropriate.

But we’re not allowed to hold people for their own good anymore so we’re forced to misuse the criminal system inappropriately.

I don’t think the criminal justice is set up to help the mentally disturbed, do you?

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

I agree! Until there is an actual crime there isn’t reall a crime.???? Psychiatrist and parents yes! Cops NO!

I don’t think this was extreme in the least.  docdave, you grew up in a different era, things are no longer the same and the world has changed.

Yes, there were a whole lot fewer gun laws in DD’s era, a whole lot fewer lefties in the “education” system and no sex criminals in the White House saying that “everybody does it”.

Hate crime is thought crime.  It’s sad to see the fear-based people thinking that a police state is a solution to anything.  They are the real “extreme right-wingers”.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Just to expand on Whistler’s point a bit, do we really want to put ourselves in a position where we can be arrested just for writing or saying something that someone else finds disturbing?

It sounds callous, but things like Virgina Tech are the price we pay for freedom.  Sort of like the car crashes we accept as the price of the convenience of automobiles.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Now if you wanted to refer him for psychiatric help that seems more appropriate.

Well, the shooter at Virginia Tech was referred to psychiatric help, That didn’t work out too well, 32 people are dead, many more injured.  Jeff Weise, the shooter in the Red Lake, was also referred to psychiatric help. 10 dead, many others injured.

What I am trying to get across is that maybe all threats of violence should be taken seriously.  There will be threats that will be passed off and ignored until someone walks into a building and starts shooting.

Lastly, did I say that the justice system was set up to handle those that are mentally unstable?  No, quit putting words into my mouth and twisting what I say.

I also didn’t say that calling the police should be the first step.  If it comes to that, so be it.  People need to be responsible for their own actions.  Stop making excuses for people.

It sounds callous, but things like Virgina Tech are the price we pay for freedom.

I disagree; I think it’s the price we pay for the utopian dreams of some for “gun-free zones”.
Laws only apply to law-abiding people; criminals don’t give a crap about laws.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

What I am trying to get across is that maybe all threats of violence should be taken seriously.

Read the link.  It says he didn’t make any threats.

Lucky he didn’t get the death penalty with the new thought police out there.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

What I am trying to get across is that maybe all threats of violence should be taken seriously.

Wrong.  That would only be a good idea if a very high percentage of violent threats ended up in violent behavior.  I’m betting that the percentage is very low.  Violating the rights of a high number of people to stop one criminal is police-state mentality.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

It sounds callous, but things like Virgina Tech are the price we pay for freedom.  Sort of like the car crashes we accept as the price of the convenience of automobiles.

Car crashes are accidents.  This guy went into those buildings with the intent of killing people.  Give me a break.

How about the fact that he didn’t even make any threats Creasy?

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Whistler:

How about the fact that he didn’t even make any threats Creasy?

Well, lets go back to what this tread is about and look at the title: Kid gets charged with disorderly conduct for writing a “disturbing” paper in writing class.

The Virginia Tech shooter did write some disturbing papers.  He wrote a one particular screen play where students kill the professor.  Shouldn’t that be deemed as disturbing?  If these warning signs would have been taken seriously, students wouldn’t have to die.

Yeah, the shooter didn’t make any threats, but can we as a country really afford to ignore these warning signs?  Whistler?

I’m not saying that you ignore that (and I think you know that) I’m saying that the criminal justice is not the system to use.

One problem is that even though Virginia ordered him treated for his mental problems they didn’t report that to the FBI for the firearms background check.

Now he probably would have been able to get a firearm illegally.

But let’s use the system that has a chance to help people.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Whistler, I notice that you didn’t respond to my comments about the shooters receiving psychiatric help.  The system you referred to failed in both instances. Maybe we need to look at other alternatives, because I fear that this problem will get worse before it gets better.

Other alternatives such as arresting children and charging them with disorderly conduct? Epecially when a crime has NOT been committed?

Creasy: The “problem” here is not the Second Amendment, nor is it the large majority of gun owners who don’t commit crimes; it is the tiny minority of criminals and crazies who take advantage of that freedom to use a gun for criminal and antisocial purposes.  The real solution is to get rid of excessive and unconstitutional gun laws which prevent us from defending ourselves from the occasional criminal/crazy.
VT is a classic example of that.  Locking up everyone who says or writes something that makes you uncomfortable is the path to totalitarianism.
How many students at VT either said or wrote “disturbing” things?  Unless you know that answer, you have no idea what the real “problem” is, and are just blowing smoke, out of fear.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

The system you referred to failed in both instances. Maybe we need to look at other alternatives,

Oh screwing the kids over and charging them for a thought crime will make a difference?

Do you really think that?

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

This guy went into those buildings with the intent of killing people.

This can happen anywhere and anyplace and from people that don’t advertise their craziness with written letters or essays.  The point you are missing is the main problem is with ‘gun free’ zones where intended victims are not allowed to defend themselves.  Additional, our society today encourages people to be passive which reduces their ability to take action against intended violence.  For example, if the victims had the tenacity and courage to rush the shooter even while unarmed, they surely could have overpowered him by the strength of there numbers even though they were unarmed.  Sure some of them may have been killed but passively they would be anyway.  Instead, they either cowered like frigthened sheep while the shooter picked them off one by one, fled or barricade themselves in a room.  It’s a very sad commentary for our society that it is relatively void of heroic people.

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

DD: Great points, but the lefties will never get it.  You see, they think govt can solve all their problems, so they have no incentive to solve their own problems or act on their own behalf.  The govt will sanitize the world, and then we’ll all be safe.  All we have to do is give up all of our individual independence.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

docdave

For example, if the victims had the tenacity and courage to rush the shooter even while unarmed, they surely could have overpowered him by the strength of there numbers even though they were unarmed.  Sure some of them may have been killed but passively they would be anyway.  Instead, they either cowered like frigthened sheep while the shooter picked them off one by one, fled or barricade themselves in a room.  It’s a very sad commentary for our society that it is relatively void of heroic people.

This is truly one of the sorriest postings I have read so far on any of these blogs.

But I haven’t read them all....

What gives you the right to sit in judgement of those faced with a person pointing a gun and shooting people?  How about the professor who barricaded the door to protect his students?  Is that not heroic?  He placed himself in danger to protect others.

Do you really know how you would have reacted in such a situation docdave?  You should truly be ashamed of yourself.

Whistler, if you had read and understood an earlier post, I stated:

I also didn’t say that calling the police should be the first step.  If it comes to that, so be it.  People need to be responsible for their own actions.  Stop making excuses for people.

However, you stated the following:

Oh screwing the kids over and charging them for a thought crime will make a difference?

Do you really think that?

People can’t kill 32 people sitting in jail.  If receiving psychiatric help doesn’t seem to be working and a student repeatedely is making threats and showing warning signs, the yes, maybe the justice system should be involved. 

Read my posts, I never stated that the justice system is the first step.

Creasy: I read the original article about this kid and his teacher, and it did not give any details about what he actually wrote, only that one teacher found it “disturbing”.  Are you really so paranoid that you would deprive this kid of his freedom in any way, just because one teacher made a personal judgement?  As I said before, this is fear-based, police-state stuff.  You assume that he did anything in any way similar to what Cho wrote, with no evidence that it’s true.  It’s called “jumping to conclusions”.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

I’m sorry Creasy, but I don’t agree with charging someone for a thought crime.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Robert108

How many students at VT either said or wrote “disturbing” things?  Unless you know that answer, you have no idea what the real “problem” is, and are just blowing smoke, out of fear.

You don’t know this information either. I will admit, I don’t know how many other students wrote disturbing things. 

So is it wrong to worry that one day a student could come into the school where I work and start shooting?  Is it wrong to worry about the safety of my children at their school?  This doesn’t consume my day or thoughts, but it is in the back of my mind now and then.

According to docdave, I will have to race down the hallway to overpower a would-be shooter because “our society that it is relatively void of heroic people.”

You can bet your house that if my son or daughter was killed by someone who slipped through the cracks like at VT, I would be asking why wasn’t the justice system involved. So would you, and anyone who says differently is fooling themselves.

You don’t know this information either. I will admit, I don’t know how many other students wrote disturbing things.

Which is why I am not trying to persecute this kid for something that has nothing to do with him, out of unreasoning fear.
BTW, it’s not “wrong” to worry; that is a personal decision.  When you try to impose restrictions on other people because you choose to worry about things over which you have no control(the behavior of others), you are wrong.

I don’t ask your question, because I’m not a pathological worrier with a desire to control others.  My safety lies in my own abilities, not the govt.  I know you will never understand this, but there it is.  You are fooling yourself if you don’t know that you desire to control others out of your fears.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

According to docdave, I will have to race down the hallway to overpower a would-be shooter because “our society that it is relatively void of heroic
people.”

You lie.  DD said nothing of the kind. You just made that up out of your fear.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Robert-

You didn’t answer my questions with your political answer.

Is it wrong to worry that one day a student could come into the school where I work and start shooting? 
Is it wrong to worry about the safety of my children at their school?

You are wrong to make assumptions that I want to control everybody. 

I am starting to figure out that a majority of the people on this blog are anti-government.

Robert, you should really read the posting before letting your mouth fly.  docdave’s posting on April 29, 2007 at 10:30 am stated the following:

For example, if the victims had the tenacity and courage to rush the shooter even while unarmed, they surely could have overpowered him by the strength of there numbers even though they were unarmed.  Sure some of them may have been killed but passively they would be anyway.  Instead, they either cowered like frigthened sheep while the shooter picked them off one by one, fled or barricade themselves in a room.  It’s a very sad commentary for our society that it is relatively void of heroic people.

Creasy: I did read his statement, and so was able to state that he didn’t write anything requiring action from you.  You lied, and made up that part.  He decried the general lack of heroic people in our society, but never named you specifically.  He made a conditional statement(note the presence of the word “if"), not a declarative one.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

I am starting to figure out that a majority of the people on this blog are anti-government.

Wrong again.  I am against all-powerful, intrusive, controlling govt.  A little govt is necessary; a lot of govt, like what you want, is oppressive.

I did answer your question: I repeat, it’s OK for you to worry, as it is a personal choice on your part.  It’s not OK for you to use your worry as a justification for controlling the behavior of others.  Get it this time?

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Robert, you stated:

Creasy: I did read his statement, and so was able to state that he didn’t write anything requiring action from you.  You lied, and made up that part.  He decried the general lack of heroic people in our society, but never named you specifically.

Aren’t I part of society?  He is pointing fingers at those who had people being shot around them, nobody knows how they would act in that situation.

Besides, I made a comment and in my comment the part that docdave wrote was in quotation marks.  I am part of society, he is blaming society as a whole.  Last time I checked, docdave was part of our society as well.

Robert, I get what you are saying...however misguided it is. 

It’s not OK for you to use your worry as a justification for controlling the behavior of others. Get it this time?

Who are you to judge how I use my worries?  You are now trying to control me and my thoughts.  This is exactly what you are accusing me of....Do you get it?

Who are you to judge how I use my worries?  You are now trying to control me and my thoughts.  This is exactly what you are accusing me of....Do you get
it?

I have no interest in controlling either your worries or your feelings; they are your personal choice, as I have written at least twice before.  I guess you just don’t get that.  When you use your thoughts and feelings to justify controlling the thoughts and actions of others, you are wrong.  We will resist you; those of us who value our individual independence.  I wasn’t accusing you of anything, btw, I was simply setting boundaries.  Get it?  Your authority ends where I begin.  You have every right to control your own actions.  If Cho had been able to control his actions, those 32 people would still be alive.  Instead, he used his thoughts and feelings to justify controlling others, with deadly consequences.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

Besides, I made a comment and in my comment the part that docdave wrote was in quotation marks.  I am part of society, he is blaming society as a whole.
Last time I checked, docdave was part of our society as well.

You seem to be logically challenged.  You wrote that DD required something of you, specifically, and he didn’t.  You lied about what he wrote.  He wasn’t blaming society, either; he was simply expressing regret that there seem to be so few heroic people nowadays.  One or two people could have saved the rest.  Surely, you wouldn’t deprive him of the right to share his thoughts and feelings, would you?

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

The disturbing paper:

“My current English teacher is a control freak intent on setting a gap between herself and her students like a 63 year old white male fortune 500 company CEO, and a illegal immigrant,” Lee wrote. “And baking brownies and rice crispies does not make up for it, way to try and justify yourself as a good teacher while underhandedly looking for complements on your cooking. No quarrel on you qualifications as a writer, but as a teacher, don’t be surprised on inspiring the first [Cary-Grove] shooting.”

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/commentary.aspx?id=18497

Carrick-

I will try to enlighten you on the real intent of my comments after you answer me this one question.

Have you ever been the victim of racial discrimination?

Whoops...the previous entry was supposed to be in a different blog.

asdf: If that is a true and complete account of what he wrote, it is easy to see why that teacher found it “disturbing”.  Can’t credit the kid with much intelligence, though.  He should have expected something to happen.  Teachers don’t do well with criticism, in my experience.

If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.