It’s not surprising that there’s unhinged folks out there.  It is surprising that they can get published.  Oh, well a guy like Hoff(man) will keep spinning out of control.  It’s his problem not ours.

John, are you still living off of dumpsters? 

Not that I’m going to make a habit of this, but I have to come down on Rob’s side here, John. 

Your comments regarding North Dakota were just childish, mean-spirited, and false.  Going on and on about this e-mail smacks of the oft-beaten whiner on the playground – poor social skills, funny little homemade hat, and a big mouth. Trying to bet someone $100 on the internet over something so stupid is a bit like fallaciating yourself.

I lived in North Dakota several times (Grand Forks & Minot) and my grandfather lives in a very small town (Anamoose).  To tell you the truth, North Dakota’s just not for me.  I live in Minneapolis now and like it a lot.  But that doesn’t give me the right to shit all over the people still living in North Dakota.  I like the lakes here, I love the Boundary Waters, I like the cities and all that they offer.  But that’s a personal choice now, isn’t it? 

I’d suggest you quit being an ass and apologize, ok?  Some of the best people I know are from North Dakota.  Some of them still live there.  My own representative, Martin Olav Sabo, is one of the finest people I’ve ever met – - and he’s originally a No. Dak. 

Oh, and John, you’re just embarrassing yourself by coming on here bickering about something you were wrong to do in the first place. 

 

It has long been my habit to post in my own name on the internet, (See Saving North Dakota discussion) which is apparently quite a unique thing but it’s the only thing that makes sense to me.

And your name is Hoff or Hoffman or what.  Frankly I don’t care anyway.

What I do care is that you start with a stupid childiish article slamming North Dakota and North Dakotans.  You seem to think it’s somehow incest that we only have one representative in the House.  (It’s about population John).   Wouldn’t the fact that our representative has to cover the whole state make it less so?

 I realize that you’re bitter that you were voted off of the Grand Forks City Council.  It must really be a bitter pill to be known as a bigger nut than Reuban Larson.  The fact that we (although I wasn’t in your district) threw you off the council actually speaks in our favor as far as I’m concerned.

John you gotta be 35 or so.  Here you are writing childish articles for a student paper.  Don’t you think it’s ever time to grow up?  You certainly aren’t showing yourself to be in a good light. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 that guys sounds like a first class knob job

Jeebus!! with each response you sound even more like him. Don’t be so defensive! Or wordy. Brevity is the soul of wit. If you had not shat all over Nodaks, you would not be in the mess you currently find yourself. And for the record I live in Western-PA, which has all the same"problems" you have attirbuted to ND. Why have you not took a big, steaming shat on us? You prejudice or something?

Grand Forks hasn’t had great luck always electing reputable city council members.

 Just remember, Reuben lasted his whole term, Hoff was recalled in four months.

 

 

 

I would like to say that i am proud to see so many fellow No-Daks standing up for our state.  As for that Hoff character he is just a fool.  i have a on going argument with some of my fellow co-workers that are from Minnesota and are going to UND.  we argue about what sate is beter and of course they always find some way to combat my postive marks about ND.  after seeing that MN is a safe haven for cowards who just hide behind their typewriters and make sneer marks. i can see that i have a new argument on how great ND is.  as far as MN goes, there an okay state and have a lot to offer, but i like my North Dakota just fine.  once a No-Dak, always a No-Dak

 

No we are talking about the one that moved from the UND to UMN twin cities.

Just to set the record straight, I’m not that John Hoff. I’M a John Hoff that is kind-hearted, go to church, kind of person. MY blog is about helping people http://www.eventurebiz.com/blog

I found this site by searching my name on Yahoo LOL.

Anyway, take care.
John Hoff from Las Vegas, NV

Regarding the email…you wouldn’t care to bet a sum of money, would you, that I can produce that email and/or verification from my editor as to its existance? The email author is most certainly not me, and I sure didn’t put him up to it. Shall we say… let’s bet $100? Will you bet $100 out here in public cyberspace that I can produce that email, and/or verification from my editor?

The email author’s defense of North Dakota by comparing residents to "retards" who are happy, so why bother them, well, that was something I considered quite a windfall, admittedly. But I’m thinking it can be even more of a windfall. So put your opinion where your wallet is, Rob. I’m sick of the attacks I’m receiving by email…a level of discourse which is right in the gutter, sometimes…and I will take great pleasure in depriving you of $100 in a very public way. I might take a picture of the money, once I receive it, and post it right here on your own blog.  

As for the other stuff you say, you are tying things together that were not tied together in my column. The comparison to "retards" came from that email from a reader. Metaphorical comparisons (I say again, COMPARISONS, like I compared North Dakota to HELL without actually saying it was part of That Fiery Dominion Under The Control And Authority Of Satan) are not the same as actual assertions of facts.

I like metaphors. Note my second column where I made all those metaphorical comparisons to alcoholic beverages, but that’s not the same as saying the state is actually "fizzy" when you walk on the ground. I never tied together "molestation" with "retards" to produce any metaphorical "molested retards." The molestation of Nodak retards, uh, that’s all coming from your head, Robster, perhaps as part of an attempt to create some kind of fiery and popular blog discussion. That’s all I’ll say about THAT.

You say I’m negative, but I call it TOUGH LOVE. Leaving an alcoholic to drown in his own swill because you don’t want to make him angry by talking about his problems doesn’t make the world a better place. It’s a lot of work and quite unpleasant to try to blast through all these highly-developed layers of denial and hold up a mirror to North Dakota, but I try, because I really care.

Honestly, I should get an award from your state for being such a humanitarian. Well, there’s still the judgment of history, after all. 

I will have to talk to my editor about how, exactly, to release the email. The idea…and I could paste in some of my editor’s discussion from an email…is that we don’t want to play "gotcha" with readers who try to interact with writers by email. We don’t want them afraid to send emails, thinking they will be quoted without being asked and made to look foolish.

Orginally, I wanted to put in a very long quote from that "retarded cousin" email, to capture exactly and precisely how he expressed himself. He said something about how, when "retards" are angry, they have "the strength of 10" or perhaps it was "the strength of 10 men." He warned me to wartch out, after all, North Dakota had all those nukes and B-52′s, or did he say B-1′s? I’d have to have it right in front of me. He made some odd one sentence remark by itself in its own paragraph, "Have you seen my baseball?" I still can’t figure out what he meant by that, though I theorized a bit in my own mind.

Now, personally, I think that quoting from an email is less intimidating than the thought you could be paraphrased without being consulted. And I’ve made that point to my editor. But I still live under the "paraphrase, don’t quote unless you have permission" rule. I salute smartly and soldier on.

You talk to me about negativity, but you should see the things being said to me privately by email. And it’s not just recently, I’m talking about YEARS of that. YEARS. And not just by email. Up in my face and in person. You apparently don’t have any experience with that kind of red-faced, all-a-tremble, shrill and defensive crude Nodak negativity, since you like the state and defend it.

So, Rob, you have some sort of OPINION about random rural miscreants busting the window in my house? Or do you doubt that? You want to dispute the binge drinking stats, or do you prefer to just restrict your argument to the meaning of working two jobs?

How about another $100 that I can produce a report from the sheriff’s department about the break-in at my house? (Whether entry gained is unknown, but a jacket got inside, that’s for sure) Call me a liar, will you? You see conspiracies where none present. I don’t need to make up emails. The only problem I have is picking one to represent all. But out of all those emails, there was one that was…special. Yes, that’s the word. Special.     

    

 

 

 

 

 

  

I suddenly have a sense of deja vu.

Aren’t you about 35 years old?  Kinda old to be acting like a 13 year old.

Hey, John? How many hits on the counter at your blog? A zero followed by how many zeros?

A shiver just ran down my spine so I figured I’d better check here in case jadegold was back. I see he’s not so I’ll move on.

Doc, North Dakota is what it is, and it isn’t for everybody.  But that being said, it is hardly a hell-hole.  There are a lot of good people here who live in North Dakota because they like it, not because they have too.

North Dakota is a good place. 

Thanks (I guess) for forwarding the link to your blog. In regard to the email you say I probably made up…the email is in the hands of my editor.

That may well be true, John, but I find it hard to believe.  I guess I’ll stick with my opinion until I learn otherwise.

And I never said the state has a rampant incest problem, though I don’t have figures to prove or disprove whether it does or not. I think it would be good if you were to kick start such a discussion, however, and figure out where North Daktoa ranks in terms of incest, whether it is near the bottom, middle or top when you consider "incest per capita."

Right.  Be cute about it.  Very mature. 

By the way, "employers screaming for workers" and such a low employment rate is not proof positive of prosperity. Young and educated potential workers are leaving, (a well documented fact) and perhaps you can tell me what state has more people working two jobs than any other, just to make ends meet?

How do you know people aren’t working two jobs because they’re taking advantage of a labor-friendly job market?  I know you won’t believe it because North Dakota is "hell" and all that, but wages are up here.  When wages go up sometimes taking a second job to save up for the things you want is attractive.  The strong job market plus the fact that this is a state filled with people who both farm and work a second job makes your "people working two jobs" stat hardly all that surprising or pertinent to the point you’re trying to make.

 But I doubt you’ll ever be convinced of any of this.  So I’ll ask you this question: Why are you so vitriolic when you talk about North Dakota?  If your objective really is to educate people about the problems present in North Dakota (and I will admit that this place isn’t perfect) wouldn’t you be a whole lot more effective if you didn’t refer to North Dakotans as molested retards, even metaphorically?

I have an open mind.  I’m willing to listen to new ideas, but when I read your columns all I see is pettiness and hate.  Maybe if you ditched those things you could maybe see your writing career advancing past campus newspapers.

Just a thought. 

Regarding the email…you wouldn’t care to bet a sum of money, would you, that I can produce that email and/or verification from my editor as to its existance? The email author is most certainly not me, and I sure didn’t put him up to it. Shall we say… let’s bet $100? Will you bet $100 out here in public cyberspace that I can produce that email, and/or verification from my editor?

I don’t gamble, John.  But if you truly have the email I should think you would want to make it public out of interest for your journalistic credibility.  If it does exist, and you can prove it, I’ll gladly apologize and withdraw my earlier comments.

You talk to me about negativity, but you should see the things being said to me privately by email. And it’s not just recently, I’m talking about YEARS of that. YEARS. And not just by email. Up in my face and in person. You apparently don’t have any experience with that kind of red-faced, all-a-tremble, shrill and defensive crude Nodak negativity, since you like the state and defend it.

I’ve received threats via email in relation to this blog in the past, so I’m familiar with ticked off critics.  As for "red-faced, all-a-tremble, shrill and defensive" people…that description seems to fit you to a "T." 

So, Rob, you have some sort of OPINION about random rural miscreants busting the window in my house? Or do you doubt that? You want to dispute the binge drinking stats, or do you prefer to just restrict your argument to the meaning of working two jobs?

If you say your house was broken into, I’m willing to believe you.  Sounds credible, and the people who did it are certainly cretins.  How you turn one act of petty vandalism into a criticism of an entire state is beyond me. 

But out of all those emails, there was one that was…special. Yes, that’s the word. Special. 

More snide insults.  Great.

As for binge drinking in North Dakota, I’ve had a problem with binge drinking studies for some time now.  What is considered binge drinking, for instance?  More than three drinks at one sitting?  That’s not a binge, to my mind.  But then, what do I know.  I’m just some booze-soaked rube…right? 

But I would like to see you respond to this:

I have an open mind.  I’m willing to listen to new ideas, but when I read your columns all I see is pettiness and hate.  Maybe if you ditched those things you could maybe see your writing career advancing past campus newspapers.

If you want to make a point about binge drinking, don’t you think it would be received better if you dropped the snideness?  And this totally irrational hatred you have of an entire state full of people?  Some of the broad accusations you make of all North Dakotans make about as much sense as the broad accusations made of all people of a certain race by bigots.  Which isn’t to say that you are a bigot, only that you seem to be operating on the same level of logic as some of them.

I don’t even know who this Jadegold is. The way you guys connect unconnected things and leap from point A to point Z without the B through Y analysis is just amazing. You apparently live in the little bubble world of your blog and think that all truth and clues are within the blog itself. Coming here and being accused of being "JG" is tedious beyond endurance. There is a metaphor to describe these kinds of convoluted and overly-inward oriented relationships, but that metaphor is getting stale in this discussion.

You and your metaphors…

But you’re right, the incest thing is getting old.

 Rob, as I made clear, the recent policy at the paper is that we don’t quote emails verbatim unless we have the writer’s permission, so that we don’t intimidate people who want to contact us by email. Unless I clear it with my editor, I can’t just throw the email up there, even without his email address on it. And since the paper doesn’t come out over the weekend, my editor is taking a trip to Wisconsin (I believe it is) and, in fact, won’t even be back Sunday night but is going to be gone until Monday with somebody else filling in.

That’s fine, we can wait.

But whether I even give a damn anymore is the greater issue. Think what you want. But libel me and you’ll be printing a retraction just like Hot Talk did this very day, a fact I’m sure you’ve already confirmed. But if you weren’t able to confirm it, you’d be demanding confirmation from me and calling me a liar for nothing more than getting sick of your blog. 

I haven’t even come close to libeling you.  I have an opinion about a piece of information you published.  I think I’m right, but you could prove me wrong.  But you won’t.  I don’t even understand why your editor need be involved.  Seems to me you could email the person in question and ask their permission directly.  It really isn’t that involved of a process, yet with each excuse you come up with I think more and more that you just made it all up.

But hey, go ahead and prove me wrong so you can make me publish a reaction. 

Another issue is the way you brought me to this blog in the first place. You sent me a link by email and invited me to jump in the discussion. Then the first thing I see is you calling me a liar, which pretty much compels me to respond. But now I’m stuck in a conversation that I don’t want to be part of, and which I consider fruitless, because all you want to do is carp on a critic instead of addressing substantive points raised by the critique.

I did respond to some (but admittedly not all) of the points (though I wouldn’t call them substantive) you raised about ND in my post.  Since I have responded to every one of your comments in detail.  If you don’t want to be part of this discussion, feel free to leave.  I emailed because you made your email available for feedback, so I thought I’d send you a link to my feedback.  Maybe if you don’t want feedback you shouldn’t publish your email.

God, the way you have latched on to this minor issue…an issue which has nothing to do with your crude and ill-designed blog where, I should point out, apparently anybody can post identifying themselves as anybody…so you could very well be some of the other people talking, which is *exactly* how it comes across, actually. It comes across that way so much that right now I’m actually being accused of being somebody else on your…blog. Your inward looking obscure bubble blog where anybody posts as anything including, I suspect, the blogmaster.

I assure you that I am only posting as "Rob."  My comment section is pretty much like every other blog on the internet.  People can post under whatever name they want.  Not much I can do about that, I guess.  But if you want I’m sure several of the people here would be willing to email you directly so that you confirm (via their addresses and IP’s) that they are indeed different people from myself. 

And I won’t even try to talk you into a bet beforehand. 

You latch on this minor issue and demand proof, basically asking me to expose this guy to YOUR criticisms on YOUR blog contrary to the policy of my paper. And you would probably drag him into the discussion once you have his email, just like you dragged me here.

Hey, you’re the one who wrote the column pal.  I don’t think it is too much to ask for you to substantiate something that you said in it. 

What if he doesn’t WANT to be part of your pathetic little blog world?

Well, I guess we could talk to your editor.  How do we get in touch with him? 

I get paid to write my opinions, Rob,

So do I, John. 

and I’m sick of giving you content for free and I really don’t like the way your blog is set up and organized. It’s anarchy and it’s lame.

It isn’t anarchy, it is an open forum where everybody is allowed to have their say.  What do you want me to do, start banning the people you disagree with?  Start banning the people I disagree with?