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Friday, November 30, 2007

John Edwards Would Garnish Your Wages If You Don’t Buy Health Care

Which isn’t all that different from raising your taxes for health care, really.

Under the Edwards plan, when Americans file their income taxes, they would be required to submit a letter from an insurance provider confirming coverage for themselves and their dependents.

If someone did not submit proof of coverage, the Internal Revenue Service would notify a newly established regional or state-based health-care agency (which Edwards has dubbed a Health Care Market).

Those regional agencies would then evaluate whether the uninsured individual was eligible for Medicare (which covers those over 65), Medicaid (which covers the indigent), or S-CHIP (the State Children’s Health Insurance Program which targets the working poor).

If the individual was not eligible for either of those existing public programs, the regional-health care agency would enroll the individual into the lowest cost health-care plan available in that area. The lowest-cost option could be a new Medicare-like public option or a private insurance plan.

The newly covered individual would not only have access to health benefits but would also be responsible for making monthly payments with the help of a tax credit.

The exact size of the financial obligation would vary according to a person’s income (lower-income Americans would receive larger tax credits).

If a person did not meet his or her monthly financial obligation for a set period of time (perhaps a year, perhaps longer) the Edwards plan would empower the federal government to garnish an individual’s wages for purposes of collecting “back premiums with interest and collection costs.”

The process, according to the Edwards campaign, would resemble the process used to collect money from Americans who are delinquent on federal student loans or child support payments.

Perhaps even scarier than modeling a mandatory health care system after the draconian child support enforcement regulations many of us have all come to know and love is the enforcement bureaucracy it would take to carry out Edwards’ wishes.  He’s talking about an entirely new federal agency in every single state tasked with some sort of social workers who are empowered to actually take money out of your pay check if you don’t get health care.

That is an obnoxious expansion of government size and power, not to mention a terrible new burden for the taxpayers.

Comments

Avatar for Bill Mitchell

John Edwards may be the biggest idiot on a planet with a lot of competition for that title.  The fact he came within a hair’s breadth of the Vice Presidency is truly frightening.

Bill Mitchell on November 30, 2007 at 05:55 pm

Annie, get your guns.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on November 30, 2007 at 05:58 pm
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j on November 30, 2007 at 05:59 pm
Avatar for Pastafarian

Attention John Edwards. I don’t have health insurance because I CAN’T AFFORD IT. What. Do they actually think I don’t want it?

Pastafarian on November 30, 2007 at 06:21 pm

Blame people like Edwards who ran up medical costs when he was an ambulance chaser and the politicians like Edwards that have tacked on all kind of mandates that have further run up the cost of health care.

The problem with the health care industry is too much government.  The solution is less government and personal responsibility.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on November 30, 2007 at 06:58 pm
Avatar for LoadTheMule

Each day I manage to wake up (thus beating the odds)the number of politicians who can kiss my ass grows steadily larger.  Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle; whenever are they going to learn that:

America wasn’t founded so we could all become better.  America was founded so we could become whatever we damn well please.

*sigh* Can you tell I’ve had a realllllly bad day?

Regards…

LoadTheMule on December 1, 2007 at 12:11 am
Avatar for Bill Mitchell

I wonder how many people that “can’t afford” health insurance “can afford”:

1. New cars.
2. Expensive restaurants.
3. Big screen TV’s.
4. Full cable.
5. The latest computer game.

Bill Mitchell on December 1, 2007 at 06:24 am
Avatar for pparets

Just another reason why we must not let a liberal dem win the White House. While we are busy attacking our own candidates - see GUILIANI FOES PANICKY IN GOP - in todays Washington Times, http://www.washingtontimes.com, the dems are busy winning the White House.  We need to stop the bickering and WAKE UP! We have a winner who can grap 20 to 25% of the dem vote. Meanwhile staunch conservatives are trying to torpedo Guiliani. Who of us would REALLY prefer Clinton, Obama or Edwards in the Oval Office over Rudy?

pparets on December 1, 2007 at 06:36 am
Avatar for syn

All this talk about health care is turning people into manic hypochondriacs.

To the Bill’s list I’ll add:

6. Weekly botox injections at $500.00 a pop-the- wrinkle.

7. Summering in the Hamptons or Cape Cod.

syn on December 1, 2007 at 06:46 am

The ironic part of all this is that Edwards is finally telling the truth about what he and the other lefties really want for America: full-on totalitarian socialism.  He’s not lying about this.  They really think they know what’s best for all of us, and have absolutely no compunction about forcing their programs on us.  They hate individual choice, which is what America is all about.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on December 1, 2007 at 06:58 am

Whistler’s point is an excellent one!  Half the state of North Carolina does not have convenient, local access to Ob/Gyn care do to Edwards’ smarmy legal tactics, channeling dead babies for semi-literate juries while pocketing some $35 million in attorney fees for himself.

I would dearly love to get Edwards one on one for about twenty minutes, enough to have him try to explain why he thinks his “plan” is even remotely constitutionally permissible.  It isn’t.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on December 1, 2007 at 08:36 am

I wonder how many people that “can’t afford” health insurance “can afford”:

1. New cars.
2. Expensive restaurants.
3. Big screen TV’s.
4. Full cable.
5. The latest computer game.

Bill Mitchell on December 1, 2007 at 06:24

Anyone who knows anybody that fits the above description please come forward with the information so we bring to the attention of the Edwards campain for clarification on the issue.

ellinas on December 1, 2007 at 08:50 am

ellinas:

“We will take things away from you for the common good.”

Can you imagine a Clinton/Edwards ticket?  *shudder*

iAMbs on December 1, 2007 at 09:00 am
Avatar for Pastafarian

Hey Billy Boy. For your information I have none of what you listed. With the exception of basic cable. You know nothing about my financial situation so dropping dead would be about the best thing you could do as far as I’m concerned.

Pastafarian on December 1, 2007 at 09:26 am

Then quit running around demanding everyone pay for what you want.

Do what the rest of us do to get health insurance, work for it.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on December 1, 2007 at 09:38 am
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That’s an interesting point.  For those concerned about the privacy of their financial lives, before we can dispense entitlements like the one Edwards is suggesting we have to let local bureaucrats who live in our communities know all about our financial lives so they can determine what we qualify for.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 1, 2007 at 09:40 am

Hey Billy Boy. For your information I have none of what you listed… You know nothing about my financial situation so dropping dead would be about the best thing you could do as far as I’m concerned.

Is this up for a vote? ‘Cause I understand that Bill dropping dead is up 14 points in Iowa! And ahead of War Hero John McCain kicking his ass in New Hampshire! smile



A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

Proof on December 1, 2007 at 09:56 am

Now doubt a substantial portion of this country’s uninsured are indeed more concerned with flat screen, HD TVs, the latest video game systems, and newer cars.

But for others, perhaps an equally substantial number, the decision not to buy health insurance is an informed and more reasoned and deliberate one.  Last March, in response to a healtcare post by Rob here at SAB, NYC blogger and corporate finance professional, ”Donnie Baseball”, explained his decision not buy health insurance coverage for his family, but to self-insure instead.  Again, I quote from his terribly important post:

To get the “Baseball” clan covered in NY by a mainstream provider like Oxford or Aetna would cost me a minimum of $2,500/mo. for a crappy plan. If I want some flexibility to use my doctors and if I want enough coverage for a hospitalization or some other goodies, I’m looking at $4,000/mo. and up. So that’s somewhere between $30,000 and $48,000 annually that is essentially wasted if nobody gets seriously sick (actually that money reduces about $2,500 of expenses that we would incur anyway to about $600, so if everyone is healthy we really only waste somewhere between $28K-46K). That is alot of dough. Sure, someone could get sick, but if we go five years without health problems, we’ve pissed away $140,000 to $230,000. In contrast I can insure my life for $2 million over that same five years for $2500 in toto. That’s $1.40 per day to insure for death, but $76 per day to insure for appendicitis or a hernia or a broken leg. How about getting a high deductible plan that just covers me if I get hit by a bus? Nope. Not available in New York state. So the choice is between accepting a high probability that a large sum of money will be wasted or accept a low probability of large healthcare expenses.

So what do you do if you can’t afford upwards of $40,000 or just can’t stomach the fact that it is vastly more likely that the money will have been wasted? You self-insure and hope. I sock away as much after-tax dinero as I can and hope that nobody gets seriously sick. And I count myself among the proverbial “uninsured” and shake my head in amazement at the misguided, do-gooding geniuses that have put tens of thousands of people like me in this position with moronic concepts such as “guaranteed issue” and “community rating”. That’s life here in New York. Wanna buy in America?

What is so often overlooked by those who trumpet the virtue of one or another form of mandated, national healthcare, and ignored by the gullible among the rest of us, is that those legislative mandates will, by definition, limit the choices available in the market.  In fact, under any such system, there is no market at all.  The costs and the coverage options are what some bureaucrat tells us they will be.  Period.

The health insurance system in place in New York is essentially little different from that proposed by the state’s junior senator, Hillary Clinton.  It is also similar to that endorsed by, and then disowned by former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney.

John Edwards’ plan to force everyone, at the point of a gun, to purchase the “appropriate” health insurance coverage is exactly why liberal Democrats should be allowed nowhere near the financial decisions and the checkbooks of the rest of us.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on December 1, 2007 at 10:19 am

Also conveniently lost in the debate is the fact that Americans have the fundamental right to refuse medical care.  It might be stupid, but dammit we have the RIGHT to be stupid!  The only reason this is really a matter of concern is because the taxpayers end up paying the cost for the health problems of those who choose to neglect their health, through higher premiums, higher taxes and other indirect costs.  If that connection were severed then each of us would be truly free to choose whether or not we want any specific medical care without inflicting any burden upon our fellow citizens.

The whole idea of government mandating health insurance is unconstitutional in the first place, but don’t overlook how, closely following on the heels of mandated health insurance, are laws specifying what type of care you have to get and when.  Do you really want that kind of government interference in your own personal health care decisions?

iAMbs on December 1, 2007 at 10:45 am

Better wake up soon.

This is the way your federal government thinks now. It no longer serves the people. It rules them.

ews48 on December 1, 2007 at 11:55 am
Avatar for skh.pcola

Hey, Johnny Edwards’ plan sounds exactly like what Mitt Romney saddled Taxachusetts with...even up to the compulsory payment.  How’s that working out up there?  Mitt Romney=John Edtards=socialist bungholes.

skh.pcola on December 1, 2007 at 12:48 pm

This is the way your federal government thinks now.

Only if we vote in the Dems.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on December 1, 2007 at 02:56 pm
Avatar for Pastafarian

Work for it huh? I happen to own a small, and up to this point as yet unprofitable business.  It’s gonna be a while. I am NOT demanding government subsidized health care. In fact I would welcome just one doctor or two in my area that would provide the health care I can afford. In other words free market care. I’ll happily pay. Are there a lot of doctors that work this way?

I’m not sure. Medical care should be run just like any other business. In fact cutting out the insurance companies would probably be a good start. Let the market dictate what doctors charge. Taking into account schooling etc. of course. Just like every business on the planet. At that point I bet more people could actually afford health care. And bad doctors would be weeded out the same way other bad business weed themselves out. Lawyers spend many years in college, yet you’re not required to have insurance to get one. Most times you can even get a good one you can afford if you look around.

$350 a month for health insurance? Thats what it would cost me. And I don’t even have to insure a wife, and children. That’s one quarter the cost of my monthly mortgage. Some are paying almost $1000 a month for that kind of coverage. I suppose that sounds reasonable huh? Can you pay that? For something you may never even need?  Even if you earn fifty thousand dollars a year thats a week and a half of your pay. How many of the people around here get employer provided health care, and don’t pay a dime for it, and can comfortably chastise others for their lack of insurance. I bet its most of ‘em.

But once again I guess some around here, and elsewhere make assumptions about why some persons lack health care as if they know why.

Pastafarian on December 1, 2007 at 03:02 pm

Isn’t that your choice to be self employed?  That’s fine, it’s your choice. 

I just don’t want to be forced to pay because of other people’s choices.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on December 1, 2007 at 03:34 pm

"Better wake up soon.

This is the way your federal government thinks now. It no longer serves the people. It rules them.
ews48 on December 1, 2007 at 01:55 pm “

Yes indeed. Your Party, the Democrat Party, is where this shit comes from.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on December 1, 2007 at 04:32 pm

In other words free market care.

That requires that the govt get the hell out of healthcare, and market forces will return.  The degree of socialization already in the healthcare business prevents market forces from providing many levels of healthcare to serve the needs of all levels of ability to pay.  The first step is to remove the stranglehold the AMA has on the price and supply of doctors and nurses.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on December 1, 2007 at 07:24 pm

We also need to get employers out of the loop.  As it is now it’s difficult and expensive to get health insurance without the lower rates employers can get.  If we could shop for health insurance just like we do car insurance and homeowners insurance we would be better off.  I would much rather get the cash my employer pays for my health care and use it to make my own choice in the matter.

Younger, healthier people could easily do with only catastrophic insurance.  What they save in monthly premiums would more than cover routine preventive care.

iAMbs on December 1, 2007 at 09:46 pm

And why is everybody shilling for insurance companies?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on December 2, 2007 at 06:48 am
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