Islamic “Justice” and Liberal Hypocrisy

Islamic justice:

At January 3, 2006, Nazanin was sentenced to death for murder by a criminal court. The Court of Appeal will review her sentence, and if upheld there, it must be confirmed by the Supreme Court, before she can be executed.
According to the Iranian daily Etemaad, then 17-year-old Nazanin and her niece had been spending some time in a park west of Tehran with their boyfriends, when three men started harassing them.
The girls` boyfriends fled from the scene, leaving them helpless behind. The men pushed Nazanin and her niece down on the ground and tried to rape them, and to protect herself, she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.
The girls tried to escape, but the men overtook them, and at this point, Nazanin stabbed one of the other men in the chest, which eventually killed him. According to the newspaper, she broke down in tears when she told the court: “I wanted to defend myself and my niece. I did not want to kill that boy. At the heat of the moment I did not know what to do because no one came to our help.” Nevertheless, the court sentenced her to death by hanging.

When the State of California finally got around to executing Stanley “Tookie” Williams, the founder of the “Crips” street gang, one might have thought that it was Santa Claus or the Toothfairy being put to death. The media overflowed with indignant celebrities and assorted liberals across the country and across the planet who were simply aghast at the idea that Williams should be put to death as ordered by the courts nearly 25 years before…25 years that Albert Owens, the 7-11 clerk shot twice at close range in the back by the racist, black, gang-banger Williams, was not so fortunate to have enjoyed.
Those same preening, self-styled liberal shrews are quick to lionize the Islamist Palestinians who have consciously chosen “jihad” and “intifada” over peace and prosperity. Or the Iraqi “insurgents” whose Islamist bombs kill far more innocent women and children than have US forces, and whose gleeful brutality in beheading their victims is somehow never the subject of selectively polite but shrill leftist tantrums.
Now in another display of Islamist “justice” a 17 year old girl who fought off a would be rapist is to be hanged for defending herself and killing one of her attackers in the process. Of course, had she merely suffered the sexual attack, she would likely have been ordered buried up to her waist naked and then stoned to death. Or perhaps her own father, or brother, or uncle, or cousin would have simply slit her throat in retribution for the “dishonor” her rape had brought to the males of her family.
But my question is this: Where’s the outrage at all this? Where are the so-called feminists? The liberals and their sanctimonious indignation? Where are the liberal glitterati who were so outraged that a murderous racist thug like “Tookie” Williams should be put to death for his crimes? Where are the MSM OpEds, the marching demonstrators, the picketers and protesters, and the oh-so-prayerful leftist clergy types?
Can they not be bothered to offer just a little outrage at the hanging of a girl who merely wanted not to be raped. Or are real Muslim victims, and the victims of Islam, only worth the trouble when it is politically expedient and the TV cameras are rolling?

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  • diane

    And your defense of violence by American men against American women and American church’s hyping and defense of an immoral war is pathetic.

  • http://peatbog.net/ Sphagnum

    But Bat…. this is their culture! We can't push our way of life on them…

    /sarcasm

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Maybe we should export every women's studies college instructor to a Islamic country for a five years.

    As it is now, they are really feminists as much as partisan Democrats.

  • http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

    We had to fight many years to establish our castle defense doctrine–state by state as well as right to carry laws and shall issue. Where are the feminists indeed.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    That's true Chief, although I don't think thaht Islamic religious based governments are ever going to grant women rights.

    The two examples that I know about are Iraq and Afganistan which I believe we set up the ground rules.

  • diane

    Before you American men get so self-righteous, look at the statistics on rape and beating of wives and all the men in prison for same, including murdering their wives in the good ol' US of A. And then look at how many get out on parole and do something violent again. That's your 'christian (little c) based justice system.

    But then, you have many duplicitous opinions here.

  • Bat One

    Diane,

    It seems like every time I am tempted to respond to something sensible and well-thought out that you've written, you manage to post something so blatantly inane and gratuitously insulting as to make me reconsider why I would have thought you worthy of the effort.

    Your discussion with Gene of Old Testament history and Semitic anthropology, which I have followed, has been knowledgeable, astute, and well written besides. In short, a masterful performance, guided by your intellect and knowledge of your subject matter and not your more volatile, less thoughtful emotions.

    Your remark here, on the other hand, is petty, capricious, and pointless. Nothing about the post was "self-righteous" as you so inelegantly describe it, despite the fact that it was an "American man" who wrote it. Fact is, you didn't write it, which is telling, and have yet to trouble yourself to remark on the plight of the young Nazanin. In essence, you seem to be condoning the hanging of the 17 year old Iranian girl, or at least rationalizing it, by noting the recidivism of American rapists and wife-beaters, which makes no sense at all unless you are a devout man-hater.

    Nor does your back-handed slap at the "christian based (sic) justice system" which again has nothing really to do with the subject of the Islamist version of justice for a 17 year old rape victim.

    Finally, there is your remark about "duplicitous opinions" whatever that means. Opinions are by definition not established fact, so a duplicitous opinion looks to be less of the insult you intended, and more of an oxymoron.

    In short, Diane, its tough to reconcile what you've written here with your earlier Jacobian social history. And that's really a shame.

  • robert108

    Bat: Not only that, but our justice system does not require that women be raped, under any circumstances, unlike sharia law. The analogy is completely wrong; there is no equivalency here. In our society, based as it is on individual responsibility, rape is always a crime, and is the responsibility of the person who commits it. In Islamic societies, on the other hand, rape and murder are prescribed penalties for certain actions. This is made possible because their society is based on a herd mentality, which demands unthinking allegiance to rules made by an elite minority. There is absolutely no parallel with our society or justice system.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    It seems like every time I am tempted to respond to something sensible and well-thought out that you've written,

    Just say no.

  • Bat One

    "As usual, Archie, you are to use your intelligence, guided by experience."

  • http://Array Carrick

    Diane=petty, capricious, and pointless.

  • diane

    Wow, it really hit home, didn't it.

    Thanks, Bat, for your nice remarks regarding the other thread, but I don't remember you ever responding to me in any other way than correction which turned out to be incorrect, or rudeness. Even here you couldn't resist peppering the niceness with some naughtiness.

    Yes, it may have been an oxymoron to say that the opinions here are duplicitous, but I don't believe it really is. Opinions are opinions, true, but they can be duplicitous, and I believe these are.

    I'm the one who feels for the innocent Iraqi women who are forced to stay at home because of the Bush-caused immoral war. I haven't seen much sympathy for the women hurt by us. I think this was just another attempt to smear Islam, and it didn't wash with me because we do things every bit as hurtful to women.

    Sometime, Google information on rapes within the U.S. military of women (in and out of the military) by U.S. men in the military. It's quite interesting. And we see what happened to Muslim (and Christian) Iraq men and women in Abu Ghraib, if only we read the stories.

    Duplicitous.

  • diane

    http://www.twf.org/Library/WomenICJ.html

    I found this interesting. Written by a Muslim.

  • robert108

    Islam: rape and murder by stoning of women are prescribed penalties under Islamic law.

    US: rape and murder are uniformly illegal under any circumstances and are severely punished under law.

    What part of that don't you understand?

  • http://www.kenmccracken.blogspot.com/ Ken McCracken

    Need I remind everyone that they should ignore bigots like Dhiane?

  • robert108

    It's fun refuting her ignorance. It helps me sharpen my arguments and gives me material for my book. The only remedy for leftie lying is the truth.

  • diane

    Here's another story of a young woman hurt by another form of law: Israeli law. Anyone here concerned about this?

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/12/mideast…

    A 10-year-old girl is critically ill after being hit by a bullet while attending school in Gaza, Palestinian security and hospital sources said.

    Palestinian security and hospital sources said Ghadir Mathmar was struck in the chest and stomach as she sat in class at her U.N.-run school in the south Gaza refugee camp of Khan Yunis.

    The Israeli military said it fired back at the source of shells fired on its troops. They said it is possible the girl was hit by Israeli fire and the military is investigating.

    The incident comes as the Israeli military conducts a criminal investigation into the shooting of a 13-year-old Palestinian girl last Tuesday in Rafah.

    In that incident, Iman al-Hams was killed as she ran toward Israeli soldiers, according to the girl's mother.

    "She was on her way to school. There was a lot of shooting that morning and when she heard it, she became hysterical. Instead of running back home she ran towards the soldiers," said Hwaydeh Salman al-Hams.

    The Israeli military said initially that soldiers believed the girl was carrying a bomb in her school bag and said rules of engagement had been followed. (Uh huh)

    The matter became a controversy in Israel when it was determined the girl was hit by as many as 20 bullets and two Israeli soldiers said their commander repeatedly shot her.

    The soldiers contacted Israel's largest newspaper, Yediot Ahrohnot.

    "I was sure she was 12 or maybe younger. I reported it over the two-way radio," one soldier told the newspaper.

    He said shots were fired and the girl fell to the ground.

    "Then our commander shot her twice. He made sure she was dead and then, I don't know why, but he decided to turn back towards her body and unloaded a round of bullets into it … this was the most revolting thing I have ever seen as a soldier," the Israeli said.

    The commander has accused the soldiers of launching a personal vendetta against him.

    etc.

    From the Guardian/UK:
    Israeli Arabs
    This is the phrase used by Israelis to describe the 1m Arab citizens of the state. Most of these people cordially detest the term, preferring to describe themselves as Palestinians living in Israel.

    Derek Brown, the Guardian's correspondent in Jerusalem from 1993 to 1996, explains some of the more commonly used terms

    diane on May 8, 2006 at 2:53 AM

    The compassionate responses by some here, you ask? Well, samples:

    Palestinians no more encourage their own children's demise than Israeli Jews do who allow their children to join the IDF and go off to slaughter Palestinians and their children. You're humming a worn out tune.

    Which must be why the "palistinians" strap bombs to their kids and shove them into the public square. I don't see a lot of that from the Israelis. But then you don't care about the children martyrs, obviously.

    I'm not going to read the rest of your writing. I gave up caring what you think since you support the willful destruction of innocent human life.

    They believe that killing non-Muslims will get them a special ticket into Allah's heaven (only for guys, BTW, so you can't get in). 78 Virgins (not a real #78, but that was as high as they cared to count, like saying "hundreds") would come along to fawn over them, just for KILLING. But apologize away. The Israelis respect life enough to TRY to only kill the jerks trying to kill them. But it gets hard when you have to watch out for children dressed in civilian garb because they might have 25 pounds of TNT wrapped up in their teddy-bear.

    You're a louse. Seriously. You can't even decry the tactics of the "palestinians". No… all you can do is HATE the Jews…

    Seth Yantiss on May 8, 2006 at 5:42 AM

    or maybe some compassion here;

    this was priceless. I have copied Diane's pull-guote, and changed it slightly:

    A 10-year-old girl is Ten school-aged children were critically ill after being hit by a bullet shrapnel from a suicide bomber while attending school eating pizza in Gaza Jerulselum, Palestinian Israeli security and hospital sources said.

    Louse (with credit to Seth)!!

    Tom_with_a_Dream on May 8, 2006 at 6:45 AM

    *******

    So you can see why I felt such overwhelming compassion for a Muslim girl was rather strange on this site.

  • http://www.kenmccracken.blogspot.com/ Ken McCracken

    . . . any why is it that it is always the leftists here who are too dense to figure out how to properly make links out of URLs?

    Everytime the comments get shoved to the bottom of the page, it seems like the inept HTML skills of RBB or Dhiane are to blame.

  • robert108

    Telling only one side of the story is a typical leftie tactic. It's a form of lying.

    Islamic law: rape and murder as a prescribed legal penalty against women.

    US and Israeli law: rape and murder against anyone severely punished.

    See the difference?

    When the Palestinians continue to make war on Israel, people on both sides get killed. Let the Palestinians stop their aggression, and watch all casualties cease. That's a challenge.

  • diane

    US: rape and murder are uniformly illegal under any circumstances and are severely punished under law.

    What part of that don't you understand?

    Military training frequently encourages the hatred and belittling of women. The use of gender slurs motivate men to act aggressively, both toward women within their own culture and women of the "other" culture. Pornography and prostitution have always been unofficially sanctioned forms of entertainment for soldiers. Until 1999, pornography could easily be purchased by servicepeople at U.S. military base commissaries, which were one of the largest purchasers of hard core pornography.

    There has always been an unspoken U.S. military policy of keeping men happy. An active sex industry for military R&R has been consistently allowed and encouraged to flourish, in direct violation of U.S. and international law. Women are forced into prostitution as de facto sex slaves for the military in a variety of ways, such as false employment promises, being sold by their families, abduction, etc. It is no surprise that trafficking routes tend to spring up near military bases. More than 5,000 women, mainly from the Philippines and the former Soviet Union, were trafficked into South Korea in the mid-1990s, primarily to work as "entertainers" at bars near U.S. military bases.

    Women in the military are also considered fair targets. In a recent study, 30 percent of female veterans reported experiencing rape or attempted rape by U.S. servicemen. According to a Department of Defense survey, one in five female cadets at the Air Force Academy said they had been sexually assaulted during their time there. Many of these assaults were not reported when they occurred because the victims feared retaliation, such as damage to their careers or being accused of being disloyal or unpatriotic

    …There is also a long history of domestic violence within military culture. There have been 218 domestic murders in the U.S. military since 1995. While there are services available for military families who experience domestic violence, the system makes it hard for military wives to report the problem.

    http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Apr2004/marshall0404.htm…

    There's more at the link.

    Maybe this part: (Someone asked where the feminists were)

  • http://www.kenmccracken.blogspot.com/ Ken McCracken

    Well said, robert108

  • Puzzlefeet

    Just a tiny bit of research on Google and you would have found this: http://save.nazanin.googlepages.com/home.

    And lo and behold who's involved in saving Nazanin but NOW, that's right, the National Organization for Women, as is the United Nations Office of Human Rights.

    So now what Bat1, is that enough righteous indignation for you? What have you done other than use Nazanin to rant against liberals and inaccurately as well? Have you signed the petition against the execution? I did.

  • robert108

    I have been dealing with the hatred and violence of the so-called "feminist movement" in this country since 1965. The above post is simply a repeat of their man-hating talking points. Like I said, lefties lie by only telling one side of the story, and in this case, lying about that, as well. Your diatribe had no connection with my statement about US law, btw. Just an excuse for you to get on your man-hating soapbox. Try being relevant sometime.

  • robert108

    Where was NOW when Clinton was accused of raping those women? Did they call for an investigation? Did they circulate any petitions? I think it's good that they finally acted, but they have a long way to go to establish any credibility in this area!

  • diane

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_US_Air_Force_Ac…

    The problem of sexual assault is present at the other U.S. service academies, at other colleges and universities, and in the U.S. Military viewed as a whole, see also sexual assault rape on U.S. college campuses and sexual assault in the U.S. military. This instance was noteworthy in its institutional prevalence and in the fact that the administration of the Academy preferred to vilify the female victims and not their male attackers. Many of the male cadets involved were allowed to graduate "with honor," despite multiple accusations.

    http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Jan2006/chew0106.html

    Alarmingly, according to the Department of Veterans Affairs, over 80 percent of recent women veterans report experiencing sexual harassment and 30 percent report rape, or attempted rape, by other military personnel. Crimes of sexual violence by military personnel are shocking yet are institutionally ignored. Lawyer Dorothy Mackey of Survivors Take Action Against Abuse by Military Personnel reports that of the 4,300 sexual assault and abuse cases she is handling, only 3 were actually prosecuted. In Mackey's own experience as a survivor of repeated sexual assault by military personnel, her attempt to press charges was opposed by the Department of Justice as a threat to national security.

  • robert108

    More leftie lying and partial truth, all serving the man-hating agenda. More agendized "studies".

  • diane

    Well, so much for facts, eh Robert. We're back to emotional ranting against..who…feminists this time?

  • diane

    We had to fight many years to establish our castle defense doctrine–state by state as well as right to carry laws and shall issue.

    Where are the feminists indeed.

    Chief RZ on May 18, 2006 at 9:41 AM

    Here, Chief:

    I have been dealing with the hatred and violence of the so-called "feminist movement" in this country since 1965

    robert108 on May 18, 2006 at 7:39 PM

  • robert108

    So, your agendized and one-sided "studies" are now "facts"? Hardly.

  • robert108

    Of course, this thread is about Islamic "Justice" and Liberal Hypocrisy. Even if what you say about America is 100% accurate(which it isn't, by a long shot), it doesn't change the violence inherent in Islamic "justice" and doesn't change a thing about liberal hypocrisy. In fact, your responses simply illustrate the depth of liberal hypocrisy. You willingly ignore the violence toward women inherent in Islamic culture with an attempt to attack America. How shallow!

  • Puzzlefeet

    R108, are you kidding me, talk about changing the topic thread, it is so typical of you to change the topic when faced with the facts. Do I have to remind you as you did me the other night that this thread is about Nazanin and liberals? I provided proof and facts that NOW and the UN are doing something and you come back with Clinton. So So typical of you.

    LOL LOL LOL

  • diane

    Actually, they're not mine, Robert108.

    according to the Department of Veterans Affairs, over 80 percent of recent women veterans report experiencing sexual harassment and 30 percent report rape, or attempted rape, by other military personnel.

    Now, either you think women are a bunch of liars, or there is a problem.

  • robert108

    P: I was illustrating yet another example of liberal hypocrisy. Right on topic. I grant you credit for what you did. It is too little, too late for the women Clinton raped and harrassed, though. What is your excuse for that?

  • diane

    Even if what you say about America is 100% accurate(which it isn't, by a long shot), it doesn't change the violence inherent in Islamic "justice

    Nor do your emotional outbursts change the duplicity with which this thread approaches the subject.

  • robert108

    Simpy claiming something doesn't make it true. What did the investigation reveal? Was there an investigation? It is simply anecdotal without verification by an impartial source.
    The problem is a lack of accuracy for the sake of promoting an anti-male, anti-military agenda.
    Anyone can claim anything.

  • diane

    Anyone can claim anything.

    Happens here all the time.

  • robert108

    "duplicity" means intentional cooperation with something that is untrue in an attempt to create the impression that it is true. Islamic "justice" does include rape and murder, so where is the "duplicity"? It's simply true. The Liberal hypocrisy is ignoring it for partisan political reasons. Once again, no duplicity here, just the plain truth. You try to claim "extenuating circumstances" by pointing to agendized claims of someone else doing the same thing, but that is irrelevant. If anything, it is your replies which are duplicitous. See above definition, which fits your posts to a "T".

  • robert108

    Anyone can claim anything.

    Happens here all the time.

    I had you in mind when I wrote that one.

  • diane

    My point is summed up as it is SO often here:

    U.S. 'christian' pot calling Islamic kettle black.

    By the way, American men on this site routinely put up photos of women in various stages of undress and then makes sexual remarks. Maybe that's part of what makes rape #'s so high in this country.

  • diane

    Maybe that's part of what makes rape #'s so high in this country.

    Well, okay, maybe doing it on this site only contributes a teeeeeeensy bit. ;)

    I still find it duplicitous to see the same men who KNOW Iraqi women are suffering under Bush's immoral invasion daily are so concerned about an Islamic woman. Duplicitous.

  • Puzzlefeet

    Once again, R108, just a bit of checking using Google would have found this:

    http://www.now.org/press/04-98/04-02-98.html
    http://www.now.org/press/04-98/letter-ed.html
    http://www.now.org/press/06-97/06-05-97.html
    http://www.now.org/press/06-97/06-02-97.html
    http://www.now.org/press/05-97/05-27-97.html
    http://www.now.org/press/05-94/05-06-94.html

    But of course your blind hatred of liberals will continue your blind attacks with little or not support. Now let's see how you change subjects, presto, change-o what will this thread morph into?

  • diane

    Iraqi women were doing better under Saddam than U.S. occupation, and U.S. occupation may bring back Sharia law:

    Rise of Extremism, Islamic Law Threaten Iraqi Womenby Chris Shumway

    While Iraqis largely blame foreign forces for the relative loss of security and freedom, secular Iraqis fear other products of the 2003 invasion — fundamentalist militants and the prospect of religious rule — as much as protracted occupation and daily terrorism.

    Acts of violence and intimidation have caused many Iraqi women to withdraw from public life, according to a February report by Amnesty International (AI). Titled "Iraq: Decades of Suffering, Now Women Deserve Better," the AI report concluded that, on the whole, conditions for women were no better under Iraq's US-installed interim government than they were under Saddam Hussein.

    In addition to citing numerous cases of violence at the hands of anti-occupation rebel factions, AI noted that Iraqi women have suffered torture and abuse at the hands of US forces. Huda Hafez Amad, reportedly one of the last women detainees released from Abu Ghraib prison, testified that she was hit in the face by US interrogators who made her stand for twelve hours with her face against a wall.

    Other female detainees were subjected to sexual abuse at Abu Ghraib, and a male Military Police guard raped at least one, according to a report issued in 2004 by Major General Antonio Taguba. US-led forces have also illegally detained Iraqi women and held them as "bargaining chips" in efforts to convince male relatives to turn themselves in or admit involvement in the resistance activities.

    Beyond immediate violence, many Iraqi women fear that the rise of Islamic fundamentalism will result in the imposition of Islamic law, or Sharia, which could take the place of Iraq's long-standing Personal Status Law, a secular civil code instituted in 1958 and maintained through the Saddam Hussein years. The Personal Status Law is considered highly progressive in comparison with the social decrees of most other Middle Eastern countries.

    *****************

    http://newstandardnews.net/content/?items=1600

  • diane

    Puzzlefeet, have you noticed that any attempt to point out discrepancies or errors in thinking are met with personal verbal abuse by men of women (and other men) here? Ironic, isn't it?

  • Puzzlefeet

    Diane, absolutely, it is amazing that some here when faced with facts, change the topic. Just like little kids when faced with their lies, the child will try to change the subject.

    For example this entire article is based on inaccuracies that any basic research would have shown clearly as inaccurate. So when faced with the proof, R108, then says "where were these groups during Clinton" as proof of hypocrisy.
    So now I will await Rs response again which will most likely contain more obfuscation and changing the subject.

    Just so much fun to watch and respond.

  • TwoHotel9

    Fact: females in Islamic culture are property, with no inherent rights. Now please explain how that is a good thing. We all want to hear this.

  • diane

    Fact: females in Islamic culture are property, with no inherent rights. Now please explain how that is a good thing. We all want to hear this.

    That's sheer crap, plain and simple. I have a female Egyptian friend who is a medical doctor and writes (anti-Mubarek) articles in Middle East papers and magazines and on women's rights.
    You have a perverted and warped idea about Islam and I'll leave you to it.

    You choose to pick out the most radical and extremist small factions (or Bush's family, the Saudis) as examples of Islamic society.

    Please broaden your horizons.

    Many women in the U.S. are regarded as property. The New Testament says the man is head of the woman. And some twist that and another verse stating that the wife is to be subject to her husband in everything as the right to treat them as such.

  • TwoHotel9

    They are the ones killing their own women and children, not me. Read your Quran. They are.

  • diane

    You're just plain silly.

  • robert108

    Just like you twist anecdotal info to smear US men and military men.

  • Bat One

    "U.S. 'christian' pot calling Islamic kettle black."

    Even if this was true, that still does not make the kettle any less black, does it?

  • robert108

    "By the way, American men on this site routinely put up photos of women in various stages of undress and then makes sexual remarks. Maybe that's part of what makes rape #'s so high in this country."

    The feminist line is that the clothing of the woman is not a contributing factor in rape. Nice hypocritical spin.

    You seem to believe that biology is destiny, when it suits your purposes. Are you aware that goes against feminist orthodoxy?

    Islamic law=rape and murder as prescribed punishments for women.

    US law=severe penalties for rape and murder of both men and women.

  • robert108

    Bat: Yes, the distraction of the leftie equivalency argument. The others are welcome to post their own article advocating their particular take on the matter. Hijacking every thread to the President-, war-, military-, and man-hating agenda is hypocrisy in action.
    Oh, yes, I forgot US- and Israel/Jew-hating.

  • Bat One

    "The New Testament says the man is head of the woman."

    Diane,

    You have not done a particularly good job of convincing anyone here that it ought not to be so. On the contrary, a functioning head appears to be exactly what is called for.

    Your bitter animosity twoard President Bush, his policies, and his supporters is such that you go to any lengths to disparage any of them. To her credit, Puzzle recalls that the point of this thread was a discussion of Islamist justice and a general lack of liberal criticism of such, despite the apparent hypocrisy of very selective indignation. You on the other hand, have once again turned this into yet another anti- Christian, American male tantrum.

    "You choose to pick out the most radical and extremist small factions (or Bush's family, the Saudis) as examples of Islamic society."

    While you, Diane, choose to ignore those same radical extremes, dismissing their abhorent behavior in favor of one more anti-Bush attack.
    Not that we're actually talking about an "extremist small faction" here. Officially or not, Islamist Sharia is the sole legal and social code for over half a billion people. Hardly as inconsequential as you make it seem in your rush to launch another pre-emptive strike at American males.

  • Bat One

    "By the way, American men on this site routinely put up photos of women in various stages of undress and then makes sexual remarks."

    Diane,

    Hell, if that's the problem, post some photographs of your own. In fact, if you're uneasy about the subject, I'll be happy to petition Rob on your behalf… save you any tender embarassment.

  • Bat One

    "So now what Bat1, is that enough righteous indignation for you? What have you done other than use Nazanin to rant against liberals and inaccurately as well? Have you signed the petition against the execution? I did."

    Puzzle,

    Of course I signed the petition. As I did last year when the woman in Nigeria was threatened with death by stoning for having an adulterous affair. Again, Sharia

    As for righteous indignation, I see little of that on the liturgical left. Lots and lots of self-righteousness, but very little righteous anything. And judging by the commentary from the libs here on this thread, my original point about hypocrisy is more than proven

  • diane

    my original point about hypocrisy is more than proven

    It most certainly is, and you were the one to prove it, as follows:

    . Officially or not, Islamist Sharia is the sole legal and social code for over half a billion people. Hardly as inconsequential as you make it seem in your rush to launch another pre-emptive strike at American males.

    How about 'or not'. If 'over half a billion people' were to follow Sharia law and be pawns of mullahs, you would see a much different world.

    Muslims are intelligent people who, 1.5 billion or so throughout the world, are some of the most lovely and law-abiding folks on the face of the earth.

    And it will continue to be my intention to point that out whenever a thread talking about the hypocrisy of liberals and relating it to something like this comes up.

    As for anti-Bush, I certainly am. As for anti-Christian, I certainly am not. As for anti-right wing 'christianity' that disobeys the very commands they say they follow, I certainly am.

    As for anti-American male, only those who are trying to make Muslims and/or Arabs look like a group of wild-eyed terrorists every chance they get..especially when their own kind is guilty of probably more bloodshed on the face of the earth than any other group in the world, and the only group to have used atomic weapons on human beings that I can think of (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong).

  • robert108

    "Muslims are intelligent people who, 1.5 billion or so throughout the world, are some of the most lovely and law-abiding folks on the face of the earth."

    Any proof of this? There is plenty of proof to the opposite.

    "And it will continue to be my intention to point that out whenever a thread talking about the hypocrisy of liberals and relating it to something like this comes up."

    You have proven your hypocrisy on this over and over again. You threadjack to distract from the truth of this article, and almost all the others on which you have commented.

    "As for anti-Bush, I certainly am. As for anti-Christian, I certainly am not. As for anti-right wing 'christianity' that disobeys the very commands they say they follow, I certainly am."

    Yes, Islamics should be judged as individuals, but your target group are subject to your generalized blame. Nice hypocrisy.

    "As for anti-American male, only those who are trying to make Muslims and/or Arabs look like a group of wild-eyed terrorists every chance they get.."

    Actually, they are the ones making themselves look like wild-eyed terrorists. Ever watched the beheading videos? Your trying to lump other people in with the terrorists just won't wash. They are the only ones making beheading videos, executing women in soccer stadiums, and having heads of state call for the obliteration of another nation.

    Japan is doing quite well today, thank you. You left out that part, of course, since the whole truth wouldn't support your anti-US rant. Typical leftie tactic.

  • diane

    Why bother to respond to Robert108? I think I'll ignore him as some of you ignore me.

    But this is too precious to pass up (to justify using the atomic bomb..you know..the kind of thing we don't want Iran to have but Israel can):

    Japan is doing quite well today, thank you. You left out that part, of course, since the whole truth wouldn't support your anti-US rant. Typical leftie tactic.

    Robert, you're 'beautiful'….you just really are.

  • Bat One

    All right, Diane. Last chance.

    Which of the 19 9-11 hijackers were Republican Rotarians from Davenport, Iowa? And which blue-eyed, Baptist, management consultant was it that cut off Nick Berg's head while Mr. Berg struggled vainly against his bindings, or that of WSJ reporter Danny Pearl? Which loathesome American Lutheran male was it that put a gun to the head of Christian Peacemaker Tom Fox and blew his brains all over the opposite wall?

    What Bronxville, NY Episcopalian wife and mother straps a nail and rat poison laced bomb on her teenager and sends him out in search of the Pizza place full of Israeli (and Arabs too, please note) kids to murder, or a bus full of elderly Israeli men and women and grandchildren, and likely driven by a Palestinian, all to be splattered in a large gooey red swath across the pavement?

    And when was the last time you troubled yourself to decry any of this? You've demonstrated an inordinate volume of venom where Americans, conservatives, Israelis, and the US military are concerned. But you are strangely silent whe it comes to Islamist thugs and butchers, oddly unconcerned that those Ianian Mullahs hang some children while lashing others to death, or stone women. And yet all the while you have nothing to say about that barbarism… except to whine about how much worse are the "sins" of American males.

    After reading your work on the Old Testament, I had hoped that you could at least become a worthy, less spiteful adversary. Clearly that is not to be.

    Back in the closet, Diane. Pity.

  • diane

    And yet all the while you have nothing to say about that barbarism… except to whine about how much worse are the "sins" of American males.

    After reading your work on the Old Testament, I had hoped that you could at least become a worthy, less spiteful adversary. Clearly that is not to be.

    Apparently you have chosen not to be less spiteful; I'm all for it.

    America and Americans are not faultless. We're not always 'best'. We're not always right. Americans do horrible things just like people in other countries do horrible things.

    I was hoping you'd get the 'gist' of the point I've tried to make so many times here. There are good and bad in all countries and in all religions and of all colors.

    The war in Iraq was started with bad information, was pre-emptive, has been hellish for the people of Iraq, and I will not stop condemning it and protesting it until either I die or it stops.

    I honestly don't care what you think of me or my belief systems. This blog is called 'Say Anything' and I take it at its' title.

    Palestinians were thrown out of their homes and have been treated as second-class human beings ever since by Israelis. They have had their homes and businesses bulldozed, their children shot to death in schools and walking down the road, they have had their groves uprooted, and a million other indignities that you would have screamed over and most likely gone insane over long ago. But they just don't matter to people like you. Only Israeli lives are valuable. I hate killing period; but I certainly don't believe in defending a nation armed to the teeth by U.S. dollars who consistently beats up on a poor rag-tag group and makes them the aggressor when they are, in fact, the victim.

    You talk about 'terrorist' behavior when American soldiers in Abu Ghraib did things that, if they were done to you, you would most likely want to kill over. If I put you, Robert, rob, docdave and Chief together, stripped you naked while mocking you and having attack dogs lunging at you, then made you masturbate eachother or yourselves while photographing you…I can't even imagine what you'd say about people like that.

    Blowing people's brains out, sawing off their heads. Well, John Murtha is being ravaged by rob in another post for speaking out against our military's savage murderous attack on two Iraqi families while left pieces of their flesh stuck to the walls of their home…for doing absolutely nothing.

    Shall we go on.

    I'm sick and tired of Americans justifying everything we do and not even taking the effort to find out why a Palestinian kid might be desperate enough to take revenge for his little sister being blown away by Israel IDF.

    I hope all this sinks in.

  • diane

    And if Iraqis had killed 30K to 100+K innocent Americans because they believed we were a threat (we obviously are) and believed we had 'weapons of mass destruction' (we do), I would be very vocal against them. The truth is, they had killed 0 Americans.

  • diane

    P.S. 'We' didn't kill all of them? The 'terrorists/insurgents killed some of them?

    Not before we got there.

    Saddam did?

    I love it when Americans compare George Bush/us to Saddam as a defense.

    Lovely.

  • robert108

    No, the terrorists, masquerading as civilians, are responsible for the deaths of Iraqi non-combatants, both directly and indirectly. They are terrorists, you see. That is what they do. They can't win militarily, so they use people like you and the rest of the antiwar lefties as "useful idiots" to try to divide our country.

  • robert108

    The terrorists killed 3,000 innocents on 9/11. After we deposed Saddam, they chose to blend in to the Iraqi civilian population and continue their war of terror, using Iraqi civilians as shields. Because of that, the terrorists are responsible for the Iraqi civilian deaths.

  • Bat One

    Robert108,

    Don't be so silly. Only Americans are butchers, murderers, bombers, and killers of the innocent. Certainly not those adherents of the "Religion of Peace." Why it was probably rogue CIA and Mossad agents who cut off Nick Berg and Danny Pearl's heads.

    Actually, I suspect that what happened here is that after the IED was detonated, the Marines were hit with small arms fire from the house in question, and they simply re-grouped and attacked, as they should. That's the most common IED/attack tactic used.

  • diane

    Only Americans are butchers, murderers, bombers, and killers of the innocent

    No, BatOne. It should read: Not just Americans are…..

  • robert108

    No mention of the beheading videos, I see. Typical.

  • TwoHotel9

    So, Dhimi diane, back to subject. The young lady inquestion is not going to be executed for defending herself and her niece from a group of Muslim men intent on raping them? Are you actually trying to tell us that women in Muslim countries are not routinely punished and executed for the crime of being raped? Are you trying to tell us that women are not killed by their own fathers and brothers for the crime of"dishonoring" their family by being raped? Is this actually what you are telling us? And as to your Egyptian "friend", does she stand bareheaded on the street and tell people of her political philosophy? Do you actually read news stories from Muslim countries? Or do you just parrot the talking points you are handed?

  • Puzzlefeet

    So typical of R108, BatOne and others to change the subject when shown they are wrong. But to get this back on subject, Bat One asked these questions:

    Where's the outrage at all this? Where are the so-called feminists? The liberals and their sanctimonious indignation? Where are the liberal glitterati who were so outraged that a murderous racist thug like "Tookie" Williams should be put to death for his crimes? Where are the MSM OpEds, the marching demonstrators, the picketers and protesters, and the oh-so-prayerful leftist clergy types?"

    I provided additional "liberal outrage" and can add more from Amnesty International and even a report from CNN from simply doing a Google search. Funny though didn't see anything from the conservatives. Obviously just want to use this poor woman's tragic situation to score points. That is low.

  • TwoHotel9

    PF, why are they not in Iran expressing their outrage? Why are they not having daily press conferences on national news shows expressing their outrage? Why are they not in front of the UN daily, expressing their outrage? Why have they not financed an operation to spirit these young women out of the hellhole prison they are in? I checked at NOW's website, didnot see any mention of this. Why is that?

  • diane

    Are you actually trying to tell us that women in Muslim countries are not routinely punished and executed for the crime of being raped? Are you trying to tell us that women are not killed by their own fathers and brothers for the crime of"dishonoring" their family by being raped? Is this actually what you are telling us?

    No. I'm telling you that violence against women by men is probably worse in the United States than in Muslim countries, going by % of population. Would you dispute that?

    And as to your Egyptian "friend", does she stand bareheaded on the street and tell people of her political philosophy?

    No, actually she has freedom to write things that are negative about Mubarek without retribution either to her person or career. Her sister is a professor at Cairo University, both doctors. After she was beheaded, it was a bit more difficult, though.

    Do you actually read news stories from Muslim countries? Or do you just parrot the talking points you are handed?

    Yes, I read them on a regular basis; do you? And do you have any friends who actually live in Muslim countries?

  • TwoHotel9

    I have friends who got out of Muslim countries so they would not get beheaded. They still have family across the water, who live with the ever preasent threat of execution for disagreeing with the Mullahs. More violence against women in America? How many were stoned to death in America this week? How many were married into slavery in America this week? How many had their throats slit by there fathers or brothers for dishonoring the family in America this week? How many preists and ministers told their congregations to kill their daughters and wifes when they were disobediant in America this week? For that matter, in America this week, how many churchs had sermons giving praise and glorification to the act of wrapping children in explosives and setting them off in crowds of innocent people? Your defense of Wahabist Islam is truly sad.

  • TwoHotel9

    Dhimi diane/0
    Freedom advocating human beings/1

  • diane

    Sticks and stones, HotelBoy.

    There's a bed that needs making in Room 54. Then you can take your break.

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