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Tuesday, March 18, 2008

Is It Unfair To Attack Obama’s Reverend?

Marshall Manson:

I go to church, and like Senator Obama, I’ve sat quietly in my seat listening to my pastor say things which with I’ve disagreed, oftentimes strongly. But that doesn’t mean that I believe him to be any less a man of God.

God is perfect. Men are fallible. Which means men like Pastor Wright are fallible, too. Pastor Wright brought Barrack Obama closer to God. That’s his life’s purpose. He is not a man of politics. That’s Senator Obama’s territory. And to hold Senator Obama responsible for Pastor Wright’s views is, in my view, totally unfair.

I hasten to add, it’s equally unfair when the media try to indict a conservative politician for attacking the religious views of his or her church.

I couldn’t disagree more, and in rebuttal let me ask this question: What if Obama’s pastor was Fred Phelps of “God Hates Fags” fame?  Would Obama’s association with such an extremist matter then?

And let me say that I don’t see a whole lot of difference between Phelps and Rev. Wright.  Phelps feels that 9/11 was God’s punishment for America refusing to persecute gays.  Wright feels 9/11 was God’s punishment for America being racist.  Phelps feels that AIDS is God’s punishment for homosexuality.  Wright feels AIDS was manufactured by the government to eradicate blacks.  Phelps feels there is a conspiracy of homosexuals that seek to control the government at every level.  Wright feels there is a conspiracy of white people that do control the government at every level.

Personally, I think it’s perfectly acceptable to judge someone by the people they choose to associate themselves with.  Just as I feel perfectly comfortable in judging a member of Phelp’s Westboro Baptist Church on nothing other than that membership, I feel pretty comfortable judging Obama based on his relationship with Reverend Jeremiah Wright.

Comments

It’s not an “attack” to replay his actual statements and comment on their content.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on March 18, 2008 at 04:41 pm

It’s not an “attack” to replay his actual statements and comment on their content.

You’re absolutely correct!

The Honorable Rev. Wright is nothing less than a radical hate monger. If he were a radical white hate monger, and he were John McCain’s religious mentor, that would be all over the media.

Wing Chun Geologist on March 18, 2008 at 04:54 pm

LOL,No.
With him carryin’ on all hellfire and damnation like ...  it’s only reasonable for him to be made accountable too don’tcha think?


flag002.gif washC.gif

Anna on March 18, 2008 at 04:57 pm

In 2000, candidate George Bush was savagely and repeatedly attacked in the media for giving one speech at Bob Jones University.  Bob Jones wasn’t his mentor, nor had GB been a member of his congregation for 20 years.  It was simply a one-time association for the purpose of addressing some of his potential voters.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on March 18, 2008 at 05:05 pm

Is Marshall Manson running for the office of President of the United States?  I must have missed the announcement!

Why would Manson think that anyone would be interested in his experiences at church, or that those experiences are relevant to a nation’s year-long job interview with a prospective President?


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on March 18, 2008 at 05:10 pm

Republicans have been licking
Bob Jones Racist, Anti Catholic, Homophobe ass from Reagan forward.

John McCain

Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right.

We are the party of Abraham Lincoln, not Bob Jones

WOOF on March 18, 2008 at 05:21 pm

We are the party of Abraham Lincoln, not Bob Jones

We’re not even the country of Wright/Obama.

I’ll concede the knowledge of ass-licking to you, Woof, but it’s legitimate to campaign for all Americans, no matter how much lefties like you want to exclude people you don’t like.

Bob Jones has never made any statments remotely resembling the hatespew issuing from Wright’s piehole.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on March 18, 2008 at 05:24 pm

You are short on knowledge , but long on flavor.

I’ll concede the knowledge of ass-licking to you, Woof,

WOOF on March 18, 2008 at 05:37 pm

Res ipsa loquitur.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on March 18, 2008 at 05:55 pm

Pat The Prophet Robertson is in the same league with Obamas minister. There are alot of religious nuts out there.

ellinas on March 18, 2008 at 06:00 pm

I have spent a lot of time in black churches.  Lots of them.  I have never heard the kind of venom spewed by Wright. 

If I did, I would get up and walk out.

Obama didn’t.

That was his sin.

Guy’s like Wright don’t survive if people vote with their feet.

And, Elianis

You are a piece of work.  You have never been in church in your life, never listen to Pat Robertson, and don’t know anything. 

So, in view of your profound ignorance I’ll properly disregard your statement.


the AVATAR
Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this could be their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce. 
And they go down fighting.

Gene on March 18, 2008 at 06:07 pm

Gene anytime you want to check my religious credentials I am ready for you. As far as Pat Robertson is concerned I did listen to him and found him repulsive and slick like a snake oil salesman.

ellinas on March 18, 2008 at 06:22 pm

Robert108 can’t be too short on knowledge if he speaks Latin. It speaks for itself!

Zsa Zsa on March 18, 2008 at 06:25 pm

Robert108 can’t be too short on knowledge if he speaks Latin. It speaks for itself!
Zsa Zsa on March 18, 2008 at 06:25 pm

Do you realy thinks he speaks Latin?
Let’s ask him: Robert108 do you speak Latin?>

ellinas on March 18, 2008 at 07:02 pm

Si, hablo latino. Cogito ergo sum, E pluribus un.

Just injecting some levity here, after a hard day at work.

Typical media coverage on Obama. O’Reilly and Hannity bashing him. CNN praising him.
God Bless America

Oswaldo on March 18, 2008 at 07:32 pm

This church and Minister Wright did not hide their abhorrent and repulsive ideas. Some of the most outrageous and disgusting sermons delivered by Reverend White were proudly offered as part of the ‘Best of Trinity United’ boxed CD gift set.

Now Obama has the unenviable task of trying to rewrite history, Democrat style. Spin it. What is even more astonishing is that the attempt to redefine, reinvent and whitewash a bigot is being made by a candidate for the office of the President of the United States of America.

Obama supporters have the gaul to refer to Jeremiah Wright as a ’scholar’ , citing some mindless ‘Black Liberation’ drivel, a collection of various idiotic ideologies that assign permanent victimhood to black Americans and perpetual blame for black problems to white people.

Barack Obama tried to make the Wright and Trinity United issue about race, as if somehow a history of racial or religious oppression make reverse bigotry an acceptable proposition and legitimate form of political expression. Because Obama made the conference about race, he is legitimizing the failures of a community that desperately needs to find it’s own successes. He and Jeremiah Wright and not white America have burdened another generation of black Americans with the liberal victimhood syndrome for political gain.

Obama’s position would have meant a whole lot more if he had given it long before he was confronted with the reality of his 20 year association with a religious bigot.

Mickey on March 18, 2008 at 07:34 pm

... unum

Oswaldo on March 18, 2008 at 07:35 pm

Se hablo espanol.(tilde over the n.) Cogito, ergo sum.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on March 18, 2008 at 07:38 pm
Avatar for Hannitized

Phelps feels that 9/11 was God’s punishment for America refusing to persecute gays.  Wright feels 9/11 was God’s punishment for America being racist. 

No, that is not what Wright feels, but it is expected that the only way a republican can make an attack of his opponent is to mischaracterize a person, sitting next to his opponent.  And also, the most important point.  Both Falwell and Robertson said similar things.  Why are you such a hypocrite?

Phelps feels that AIDS is God’s punishment for homosexuality.  Wright feels AIDS was manufactured by the government to eradicate blacks. 

I never heard that statement.  Where was that?

Phelps feels there is a conspiracy of homosexuals that seek to control the government at every level.  Wright feels there is a conspiracy of white people that do control the government at every le

vel.

A conspiracy?  White people for the most part, DO control the government.  That is not a conspiracy, it’s a statistical fact.  Unless you are willing to concede that NPR must not be biased because they are mostly liberals that work for the station.

This is just more right wing hyperbole.

Hannitized on March 18, 2008 at 07:58 pm

I see our overt racist WOOF has been peeing on the furniture here as well:

Republicans have been licking
Bob Jones Racist, Anti Catholic, Homophobe ass from Reagan forward.

That’s some accusation coming from someone who holds that Shelby Steele is a house ******.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on March 18, 2008 at 08:08 pm

Hannitized,

Wright also accused the U. S. Government of flooding the areas where poor blacks live with guns and crack to diminish their numbers and disrupt their political cohesion.

You might want to do some research, unless of course you revel in being an ignorant ass.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on March 18, 2008 at 08:12 pm

Hannitized

I was watching Hannity this evening, after weathering O’Reilly’s anti-Black-Church rhetoric.

Hannity, shuffling frantically through his paper notes tonight, showed video of Wright saying that the root cause of 9/11 was our stance with regard to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  Hannity found this outrageous, anti-American, etc. Hey, wait a minute. Just try googling

“root cause of 9/11 Israel-Palestine”

and see just how much of the world was saying the same thing.
Oswaldo on March 18, 2008 at 08:14 pm

Wash your beard Rod, you’ll be rid of the smell.

2000932617027994909_rs.jpg

Spewing Latin our wannabe Senators dream of controlling the mob.

WOOF on March 18, 2008 at 08:22 pm
Avatar for Andrew

I don’t like Obama. I won’t vot for Obama. I think Wright is a racist hate-mongerer. With that said, there’s got to be something more interesting in the news than this topic. Nothing’s going to be said that hasn’t already been said. This whole discussion just keeps going in circles. Future “attacks” on Obama should focus on why his views and policies would hurt America, rather than the fact that he attended the church of a racist minister. We need to show the public several reasons why they shouldn’t vote for Barrack.

Andrew on March 18, 2008 at 08:32 pm

WOOF you overt racist bastard,

Love the candid shot of you, it explains a lot.

Derideo te!


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on March 18, 2008 at 08:37 pm

Andrew:

Associates with un-repentant domestic terrorists.

Associates for 20 years with a racist “minister.”

Product of Chicago machine politics.

How many more strikes are required in this here game?


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on March 18, 2008 at 08:41 pm

Rod your pretension can not be substituted for wit.

WOOF on March 18, 2008 at 08:58 pm
Avatar for Andrew

Rodney,

That’s what I’m talking about. I think his Rezko scandal and domestic terrorist ties should get more focus. The “racist minister” angle is going to get tired and played out soon. Plus we could always focus on his actual policy ideas, which would be fatal to the US economy and foreign policy. By shifting all focus onto Wright, we ignore all the other countless reasons Obama sucks.

Andrew on March 18, 2008 at 09:00 pm

WOOF you overtly racist bastard,

Your pretensions of enlightenment are belied by your racist comments.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on March 18, 2008 at 09:45 pm
Rob
Rob
17375 comments
Send a private message

White people for the most part, DO control the government.

But not through a conspiracy as Rev. Wright suggests.

Andrew, if there are subjects you’d rather see discussed the reader blogs are wide open. 

I, personally, think this was a very pertinent issue.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on March 18, 2008 at 09:47 pm

No, that is not what Wright feels, but it is expected that the only way a republican can make an attack of his opponent is to mischaracterize a person, sitting next to his opponent.  And also, the most important point.  Both Falwell and Robertson said similar things.  Why are you such a hypocrite?

He said as much. He said 9/11 was a response for our policies against the people of color. Piss off.

Kenny on March 19, 2008 at 12:02 am
Avatar for Hannitized

Wright also accused the U. S. Government of flooding the areas where poor blacks live with guns and crack to diminish their numbers and disrupt their political cohesion.

Rodney, never will you get me to defend stupid statements about conspiracy theories.  What I am interested in is proving that most Americans obtain spiritual guidance from spiritual leaders who say stupid things and perpetuate conspiracy theories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Chronicles

The Clinton Chronicles: An Investigation into the Alleged Criminal Activities of Bill Clinton is a 1994 film created by Patrick Matrisciana. This video explored the deaths of Vincent Foster and an alleged cocaine-smuggling operation purportedly involving BCCI, Dan Lasater and then Governor of Arkansas Bill Clinton.

snip

VHS copies of the film were promoted and distributed via television infomercials by Moral Majority leader Rev. Jerry Falwell, who also appears in the film.[2] Falwell’s infomercial for the 80-minute tape included footage of Falwell interviewing a silhouetted journalist who was afraid for his life. The journalist accused Clinton of orchestrating the deaths of several reporters and personal confidants who had gotten too close to his illegalities. However, it was subsequently revealed that the silhouetted journalist was, in fact, Patrick Matrisciana, the producer of the video and president of Citizens for Honest Government. “Obviously, I’m not an investigative reporter,” Matrisciana admitted (to investigative journalist Murray Waas), “and I doubt our lives were actually ever in any real danger. That was Jerry’s idea to do that ... He thought that would be dramatic."[2] In a 2005 interview for The Hunting of the President Falwell admitted, “To this day I do not know the accuracy of the claims made in The Clinton Chronicles.”

http://www.livingston.net/wilkyjr/link25.htm

The Evangelist, named Russ Polsen, calls up Texas Baptist churches trying to get them to buy the film called “Obstruction of Justice."(9) The film accuses Bill Clinton of doing everything except kill 0. J. Simpson’s wife. Polson suggests churches show the film during Sunday evening services. Believe it or not Land’s proclamations are pale by comparison to Jerry Falwell. Falwell’s monthly newspaper features peculiar conspiracy theories attacking the Clinton administration.

Gee...what now fellas?

You might want to do some research, unless of course you revel in being an ignorant ass.

Yawn.

Hannitized on March 19, 2008 at 02:49 am
Avatar for Hannitized

...showed video of Wright saying that the root cause of 9/11 was our stance with regard to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  Hannity found this outrageous, anti-American, etc. Hey, wait a minute. Just try googling

Heh, exactly Oswaldo.  Kenny dodged my remarks earlier about the CIAs use of the term “blowback” when it came to 9/11.

But remember, it’s only the Liberals and now the blacks who hate America.

Hannitized on March 19, 2008 at 02:58 am
Avatar for digital1nk

The only difference between Wright and Farakahn is the attire and the book the get their form of religion from, the hate message is exactly the same.

digital1nk on March 19, 2008 at 04:20 am
Avatar for R Hogan

Wright deserves to be attacked from all sides. To spew the hateful and racial remarks deserves all he gets.  This guy could not be a ‘reverend’ any more than self-annointed Jesse Jackson or Al the Shyster Sharpten.

R Hogan on March 19, 2008 at 04:23 am
Avatar for Andrew

Andrew, if there are subjects you’d rather see discussed the reader blogs are wide open.

I, personally, think this was a very pertinent issue.

My point wasn’t to say that this issue shouldn’t be discussed, just that other issues are being excluded. And not just on this blog either. It seems I can’t go to any right-leaning blog without seeing every other blog post talk about this.

When I get some more time, I’ll take up your offer regarding the reader blog. However, the reason that I personally come here isn’t really to have a forum to express my views. I come here because I like what you write and how you write it (Whistler, Pilgrim, and Bat One are alright to :p). Many of your views match up with mine. As a long-time reader (going on four years), I’ve become a fan of this site. Just making a request for some new material.

Andrew on March 19, 2008 at 06:51 am

What I am interested in is proving that most Americans obtain spiritual guidance from spiritual leaders who say stupid things and perpetuate conspiracy theories.

One person’s stupidity doesn’t excuse another’s racist hatespew.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on March 19, 2008 at 07:08 am

Obama stepped in some liberal crap and it stuck to his shoe. Unfortunately for everyone else he thoughtlessly tracked it into our livingrooms.

Mickey on March 19, 2008 at 07:14 am

Why didn’t Obama just leave the church? Unity and change are supposedly Obamas thing. Obama not acknowledging Rev. Wright as a racist absolutely shows lack of leadership. It is quite sad. IF this had been a white man? Blacks would be rioting and we would never hear the end of this. Had the candidate been a white Republican there would have been hell to pay. Instead Rev. Wright is going to be honored at some school this week. AND Obama continues his campaign.

Zsa Zsa on March 19, 2008 at 07:35 am

ZZ: Typical leftie double standard.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on March 19, 2008 at 07:42 am

As typical as it is?  Obama should be ashamed! Instead he is so casual and appears to be relaxed and smiling!

Zsa Zsa on March 19, 2008 at 07:55 am

Why didn’t Obama just leave the church?

Zsa Zsa,

Because up until last week, safe within his protective cocoon, it hadn’t even occurred to Obama that anything was amiss.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on March 19, 2008 at 07:56 am

Bat One, That is really sad because he tries to act oblivious to his own wife and her feelings about America…

Zsa Zsa on March 19, 2008 at 08:02 am

Hannitized,

Please tell us which Republican Candidate for President of the United States had Reverand Fallwell as a campaign advisor, or who was a member of Fallwell’s church for 20 years…


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on March 19, 2008 at 08:10 am

RG: It’s just the usual leftie tactic of distracting by making a false equivalence.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on March 19, 2008 at 08:21 am
Avatar for Hannitized

Please tell us which Republican Candidate for President of the United States had Reverand Fallwell as a campaign advisor, or who was a member of Fallwell’s church for 20 years…

Rodney,

I have on several occasions discussed McCains affiliation and welcomed support of another Pastor or two who is supporting his campaign, who said similar bigoted statements.  McCain welcomed his support knowing of his inflammatory statements.

Why is his so hard to understand that pastors say alarming things all around the country?  Obama explained this yesterday and everyone is acting like Wright is the only one who makes idiotic statements.

Hannitized on March 19, 2008 at 08:44 am

...who said similar bigoted statements.

Again with the false equivalence.  No one but Wright and his fellow black liberation theology advocates say anything like “God damn America” and “US of KKKA”.  You lie, as usual, “Hannitized”.  You still don’t get it that nothing justifies Wright’s racist, AntiAmerican hatespew.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on March 19, 2008 at 08:53 am

Hannitized,

You named Fallwell.  I asked you to name the Republican Candidate who had Fallwell on his campaign staff (as Obama did with Wright) or who had been a member of Fallwell’s church for 20 years.  You provided no such Republican Candidate because there ARE NONE.

Racism is not identity dependent nor is identity bar from nor an excuse for racism.

Your tolerance and excuse making for racism reflect on you poorly.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on March 19, 2008 at 09:18 am

What makes Wright’s speech so destructive isn’t what he says about “white America” because white America will survive the insults and the slanders.

The destructiveness of his speech comes from the fact that he convinces many of his flock to wrap themselves in hatred. I believe that there IS suffering in the black community, but that suffering has more to do with illegitmacy, drugs, and gangs than it has to do with anything whites are doing.

Whites can’t fix these problems, and neither can the government. There are problems that need to be solved within the African American community, by people taking responsibility for improving their lives, and condemning those who behave irresponsibly.

When Rev. Wright blames the government or blames “white America” pr blames “middle-classness”...he’s distracting his followers from the kind of self improvement that would alleviate the suffering.

Wing Chun Geologist on March 19, 2008 at 12:00 pm

pastors say alarming things

More sleight of hand from a dishonest commenter.



A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

Proof on March 19, 2008 at 12:20 pm

Jonathan Edwards said alarming things in “Sinners in the hands of an angry God”, but he was not guilty of race-baiting or hate speech. There is a difference! (I shouldn’t have to say that, but there are children present in this discussion!)



A troll is someone who only wants to stir up trouble, not have an honest debate.  Some signs that a poster is a troll:
* Dodges questions from other posters * Refuses to give sources
* When one of its arguments is shown to be false, either ignores the proof or moves the goalposts.  Heh. (From the LGF faq)

Proof on March 19, 2008 at 12:26 pm
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