In The Future We’ll Have Socialism Through Insurance

Ace makes an excellent point about the government’s use of insurance as a foot-in-the-door for socializing our society.

If Man A and Man B are forced, by law, to pool costs, and pay for each other’s costs, they’re socializing each other’s costs of living.

Now insurance isn’t socialism, but it does have that socialism-like feature of risk-pooling and cost-sharing. What makes it “not socialism” is the fact that it applies only to catastrophic, rare, or unpredictable costs — costs which are actually quite small per capita, because while the costs of cancer treatment are very high, fortunately very few people suffer from such a horrible disease.

And what makes it “not socialism” is that insurance contracts are entered into on a voluntarily basis. If the costs of insuring a risk are too high, people don’t buy the product. It’s cheaper to just absorb the cost.

But when you have “risk pools” paying everyone out for costs that are incurred every single day, it becomes very expensive indeed, because while the cost-per-purchase are low, if everyone is drawing out of the pool on a daily basis, that’s a lot of money.

At this point, they’re not “risk pools” of course. It’s just a kind of Commune system. You take from the Pile of Free Money what you need, I’ll take what I need.

If you and I both choose to buy insurance against getting hit by a meteor, voluntarily socializing the risk of such an event between ourselves, that’s not socialism. But if you force me and everybody else to join your risk pool, that is socialism.

It doesn’t matter if we’re insuring against the risk of a meteor strike, or insuring against the need for contraception. That’s socialism.

Look, for instance, at the federal crop insurance program. It’s a government program socializing risk among farmers. It’s voluntary now, though heavily subsidized, and for two years (from 1994 until it was repealed in 1996) it was mandatory if you wanted to receive other benefits.

Insurance is going to be used as the method through which which the government is going to socialize our society. Insurance, when optional, is fine. Insurance where we don’t get a choice is socialism.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

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  • Spartacus

    Why do socialists become so antisocial when people question socialism?

    • two_amber_lamps

       It goes back to the turn of the century when socialism began to get a bad reputation, leftists renamed it “Progressivism” in a lame attempt to cover up the lineage of their collectivist ideology.  They don’t like to be reminded of the truth… only the “current truth” is acceptable. 

      • sbark

        I’d say after Obama…….they will have to go on another crusade for a name change……

        • $8194357

          Like maybe hey I was from Kenya, what do you expect?

      • $8194357

        ( only the “current truth” is acceptable)

        Thats just a fancy way of saying what is politicly correct this year….

        Eternal word or political correct cultural terrorism….sounds like a no brainer but the left keep jumpin on the PC band wagon, huh?

    • awfulorv

      Why do Socialists always rise to defend slothful activity?

  • http://nofreelunch.areavoices.com/ Kevin Flanagan

    Many of them are guilty about being leeches.

  • splined

    In regards to federal crop insurance –  when  multimillion dollar policies are available for a nominal price (CAT coverage costs $300. per crop per county) it is for all practical purposes mandatory.  When government assumes business risk,  these guarantees are capitalised into land values.  This in turn drives up land values, creates narrow margins of profitability, and continues the vicious cycle of government dependency with  farmers continually begging for better crop insurance coverage from the government. 

    • Paul Overby

       Just finished “signing up” for 2012.  Tried to keep my costs at $10-$12/acre.  But had a bunch of choices for other coverage ranges.  That is actually capitalism.  Interestingly, in crop insurance the coverage and losses are actuarally sound. IF there are heavy losses in county, or a product, for a specific company the rates will go up.  A classic example was the CRC durum product that invited a lot of fraud in eastern ND.  Rates for the same coverage were 50% higher in Towner County than in McClean County.  What is socialized in this case is the operations of the insurance companies themselves.

      • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

        I agree with this. Voluntary risk sharing is in keeping with a free market.

        Of course, as you point out, that the premiums are subsidized and the insurer is the government itself hardly makes crop insurance a free market.

        • sbark

          cough cough b.s cough cough

          USA consumers get food at 15% of income under world prices because of incentives to produce for decades at under cost of production….

          Do the math 300 million people X 40k ave income X 15%……….Trillions vrs. Ag subsidies at 27 billion…………

          your presumption that food prices and supply would remain the same is false

      • splined

        Crony capitalism is the  term that describes federal crop insurance.  Federal crop insurance is a government scheme that  uses  the taxpayers’ contributions and government resources  to disproportionately guarantee  greater wealth to those with the greatest probability of the greatest wealth.  In exchange for highly subsidized premiums the wealthiest farmers or those with the greatest probability of the greatest wealth (generally those with the most acres controlled or owned) receive nearly bullet proof investment and profit insurance worth many times what smaller farmers can obtain.   (Fair market values  of investment /profit guarantee received.)
          In short,  government is guaranteeing the most to those who have the most.  This granting of overwhelming prosperity in exchange for highly subsidized premiums allows the largest and  already most financially competitive  farm operators the ability to make sure most smaller farmers can see the lights of the uncoming train financially.

        • sbark

          That is because a govt sees a supply of food grains is as essentaily as military defence.

          Historically a supply of meat is a luxery item to a country…….see China’s diet up until to just 8 yrs ago……..meat was a pure luxery to a billion people.    No diff in India

          even in the USA—USDA data indicates that total meat consumption has increased notably over the last century, nearly doubling between 1909 and 2007 (Figure 2). The lowest meat consumption occurred in the 1930s and the highest meat consumption was reached during the most recent decade……

          …….and 100 yrs ago…a large percentage of people lived on farms-with low meat consumption.

          The conversion of food grains to meat is a very inefficient process…taking grain that could be food on a 3.6 bu to 1 libs of meat conversion ratio……….

          In the case of emergency food shipments to Africa etc……..what does the USA/UN drop in…………steaks?             Nope they drop in efficient cheaper food grains that are non-perishable….there is a reason.

          • splined

            Land owners have a distinct interest in having their land used for production agriculture.  Before federal farm programs cropland was used for production agriculture.  How many billions has the government paid farmers not  to produce anything?   Looks to me like you are motivated to defend you attachement to the federal sow farm programs.    Politicians fixated on reelection are unable to see much beyond their own noses and many are driven to create dependency type programs that they can use to buy their reelections.   Politicians know that a few wealthy receipients of farm programs tend to generate a whole lot more campaign cash than spreading a little cash to many small farmers.    Too bad these programs that target massive wealth to a few select individuals have stolen from several generations any opportunity to be involved in production agriculture.

  • awfulorv

    If you’ll just step back and realize what’s going on, with this Socialized Medical Scheme the most racist POTUS in our history has foisted on you, your obvious question should be this. Is the medical cost of combatting a lifetime of bad habits, booze, smokes, hard drugs, greasy foods, indolence, of a 40 year old poor woman, sitting on her couch in the flatlands of Oakland, already receiving whatever society can give her, worth more than, perhaps, five of your, hard working, taxpaying, still industrious, relatives who’ve made the mistake of becoming elderly?  If you chose your Kin vote Republican, if not, Obama’s your man. See how simple it is?

    • WOOF

      The woman buys two Cadillacs a year keeping your

       five hard working kin employed washing them.

      • two_amber_lamps

         It’s doltish convoluted thought process such as yours which convince the likes of Comrade Nanski Peloski that federal assistance funding is “stimulus.”

      • awfulorv

        Why would a woman buy two old Caddies  a year?  Oh, one to pollute the air with, and one to dress up the yard.

        • WOOF

          Just a wash, rinse , repeat of Reagan’s welfare queen lie.

          “Reagan told the story of the “Chicago welfare queen”
          who had 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards, and collected
          benefits for “four nonexisting deceased husbands,” bilking the
          government out of “over $150,000.” 

          • two_amber_lamps

             http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/entitlement-society-lottery-winner-says-shell-keep-taking-food-stamps/

          • awfulorv

            I’m convinced there’s only one solution to the blather which, continually, emanates from you Libturds.  That is to borrow an idea from the Iditarod race, and encase your hands in a set of extra large, dog paw, snow mittens. 

          • $8194357

            sounds like Barrys back ground your describing there woof…

            “Chicago welfare queen” who had 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards, and collected benefits for “four nonexisting deceased husbands,” bilking the government out of “over $150,000.” 

  • Gern Blanston

    And we often forget thatthe REASON some feel a need to socialize insurance is becasue health care costs are skyrocketing. But no one want to address health care costs. I think there may be evidence that the left WANTS higher health care costs – to help justify the need for nationalized insurance.

    • mickey_moussaoui

      Except that the CBO has already determined that Obamacare will cost significantly more than what we currently pay for insurance

    • sbark

      ObamaCare really nothing to do with healthcare…….there is a reason the 1st “progressives to implement govt health care were Stalin and Hitler…….

      Liberalism wants people souls…..they want to control how you think…..and if they litteraly own your body via health care……….they own your soul…..

      Ins. is only pure Ins. if it can be actuarilly sound…….that leaves out ObamaCare, SS, Medicare, ……..

      ……..they cannot even be argued they are for the good of an entire society…….ie a subsidy supplying something such as cheaper energy or food.

      • $8194357

        (Liberalism wants people souls…..they want to control how you think…..and if they litteraly own your body via health care……….they own your soul…..)

        So does the devil own the souls of the lost, huh?

        The state owns you…All for the state…
        Needs to be that way when the anti christ steps in to take control…He will need followers who will gladley strap on the bomb and fly into the buildings huh?

    • two_amber_lamps

       “The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.” –Vladimir Lenin

      • $8194357

        OWWW..
        Way 2 tru 4 skool….
        Lemmings and useful idiots…

        Quote:
        Political Hay
        Democrats: The Missing Years
        By Jeffrey Lord on 8.12.08 @ 12:08AM

        The party that championed slavery and segregation erases its race record from history.

        http://spectator.org/archives/2008/08/12/democrats-the-missing-years

        And someone should add the years since the communists and islamasists usurped control of the Democratic party as well after the Bobby and JFK years, and then folks would have a “complete and factual history” of international progressives tyranny for the last 100 plus years…

  • Dakotacyr

    But forcing me to pay because you did not insure yourself is what? The lead plaintiff in the affordable care act is now asking for protection of the government by declaring bankruptcy, and for what? health care bills due to no insurance. Ironic!

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      Well who is it that insists that we all pay for people who wont insure themselves?

      You create the problem, and then you use the problem as justification to take more from others.

  • DopeyDem

    So under this same argument does Walmart practice socialism to keep their prices low? Health Insurance can’t become competitive under a free market system until they remove the cross state barriers to purchase.

     

  • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

    It’s great that the front page image shows a red (gop) robbing a blue (dem).
    Kinda like red moocher states mooch off blue creator states.

    But just don’t tell them its Socialism.
    Tell em’ it’s E Pluribus Unumism and say you’re welcome.

    • Paul

       http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2011/05/red-states-add-more-jobs-than-blue.html

    • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

      10 ring!

      • mickey_moussaoui

        For you a ten ring is the number of men who have been in your butthole

        • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

          Now, now! Hanni’s turning into a one fella fella. Lately, he has lips only for Nutterbob’s backside.

    • sbark

      The 1st thought that comes to my mind with a person in “red” with a gun to another persons head is a Commie Liberal………the cold war nomenclature the Reds……
      with 100’s of millions of deaths to their credit: stalin, mao, lenin, hitler….

      besides the money bag in the blue persons hand nails it——–he the free market capitalist,  vrs a welfare / food stamp voter.

    • $8194357

      Those two guys layin down cause all the blood to leave your brain?

    • mickey_moussaoui

      most of the blue states are in debit crisis. most of the red states are not.

      who’s mooching on who?

      • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

        Mr. Mouse, you’d be a pretty effective debater, if only you had facts on your side.

        Oh look, here’s something the the right wing extremist’s outlet, Reason:

        We hear it all the time: Red states are for limited government;
        blue states are for heavy spending. While this may be true when it
        comes to broad political preferences, it’s false as measured by
        patterns of federal spending.

        When you compare the 50 laboratories of democracy after sorting
        them based on how their citizens voted in November 2008, only 10
        Democratic-voting states are net recipients of federal subsidies,
        as opposed to 22 Republican states. Only one red state (Texas) is a
        net payer of federal taxes, as opposed to 16 blue states. One blue
        state (Rhode Island) pays as much as it gets.

        http://reason.com/archives/2011/07/14/the-redblue-paradox

        ‘Red State Socialism’ graphic says GOP-leaning states get lion’s share of federal dollars

        http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/26/blog-posting/red-state-socialism-graphic-says-gop-leaning-state/

        • mickey_moussaoui

          Boobs, You are cherry picking. Those large cities in the blue states that are run by democrats are generally running deficits. If anything the state government is the only thing keeping them running. NO state is 100% red or blue when it comes to citizens or buiness. California, the largest blue state is running major deficits in most of its cities but the state is generating massive GDP. Your blue cause is milking the red productivity of the state. But continue to manufacter any numbers you want to pull from your ass because its all spin anyway

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            I’m sorry using right wing sites to validate my position causes you such grief.  Have you considered getting a puppy?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Show a nutter a fact, and they show you why they are a nutter.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            HA! Classic.

  • No

    Your post is literally nonsense, Rob. Insurance and socialism are TWO SEPARATE THINGS!!!

    They are not the same. Different!

    All you’ve proven is that you don’t know what those words mean.

    Of course, as a Fox viewer I expect you to be wrong on the facts but this is just plain crazy talk.

    • Guest

       NO deed…NO house.

      • mickey_moussaoui

        LOL, busted the wanker Billy again

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        30k in a month, or more!

        • Guest

           So what. It just makes you a prick with money, or just a lying prick. But still, nothing more than a prick without a deed. But youi do have a tax lien all your own.

          • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

            Supposedly all that money, but he can’t afford “Hooked on Phonics”?

        • two_amber_lamps

          Pay your taxes… it’s the patriotic thing to do….

          That’s what your cheerleader Joey Biden said.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I’m getting 5k back this year.  What does that mean to you?

          • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

             Poor planning on your withholding.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So you are paying the government, again, Poof?

            Thanks for that admission.

          • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

             “Again”? I have been “paying the government” through taxes, since before you were even a stain on your dad’s tighty whiteys. WTF are you babbling about, Tiny Fruitcake?

          • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

             If you are asking if I had to cut them a check for anything I owed them above what they already withheld last year, the answer is “no”. My “no interest loans” to the state and federal government have both been repaid and are currently drawing interest in a financial institution of my choosing. 

    • two_amber_lamps

       When government controls insurance companies, when they for all intent and purpose mandate what shall be covered and what shall not, when the government convenes a panel of technocrats who will decide what these coverages shall be…  guess what?

      GOVERNMENT AND INSURANCE BECOME ONE IN THE SAME.

      And if the government is a variation of “kind” socialism?

      Follow me chucky?  I knew you could!

      But you won’t….  because you’re an adherent to leftist ideology…. they shall take your rights away from you one at a time and your refrain shall be…

      “thank you sir, may I have another.”

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        Romney made all of this happen and you elected him as your candidate.

        Interesting.

    • $8194357
  • libertyviews
  • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

    But if you force me and everybody else to join your risk pool, that is socialism.

    What is it called when we’re forced to pay for roads we don’t use or street lights on those roads we don’t use or police and firefighters when we don’t commit crimes or start fires and our neighborhood is safe, or pay for wars we don’t want, or pay for inspectors to make sure our food is safe, is it socialism to pay for a state wide water system, what about the socialist sewer system?

    Why don’t rugged right wing individualists want to be active citizens of the greatest country the world has ever known? 

    • Gil

       Spoken like a true socialist who voted for a Marxist. Whats it called when paying for bogus energy companies that go belly up, or paying for a stimulus that’s supposed to create jobs but doesn’t, or paying someone to hold the office of President who’s policies are killing the economy, or paying for a military high tech drone that the sitting President gives away to an enemy, or paying for F15 jet fighters that the President sells to the enemy of an allie, or paying to fund and install the Muslim Brotherhood in countries that threaten our allie?

      • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

        Well Gil, the Solyndra failure I’d call unfortunate. The stimulus has created private sector jobs for 23 or 24 straight months, the economy is doing better now than it was when we elected Barack Obama as our President, what drone was given away?, are you referring to the F15’s sold to the bush family pals from Saudi Arabia? please link us to something saying President Obama funded and installed the Muslim Brotherhood so I can debunk it for you.

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          Gil’s not really big on following up his statements with fact, logic or evidence.  He’s just a drive by ex SAB commenter that was banned by Rob.  mikemc1970, Will_Hunt_For_Food and the rebel guy are hiding as guests because they don’t like me quoting them from statements they made in the past.

          • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

            “they don’t like me quoting them from statements they made in the past.” …says the guy who refuses to claim nearly 10,000 comments from his first two years at SAB. (And currently holds the record for the most sock puppets run at SAB) Besides, you’ve ‘hidden” as “guest” a few times, too, Tiny Creampuff!

            One of your sock puppets you named “Will_Hunt”. Coincidence?? You try to impersonate people you cannot beat in intellectual debate, to try to make them sound as stupid as you are. Sock puppet fail, Tiny Fruitcake!

            http://oi40.tinypic.com/qywx36.jpg 

          • Gil

             You moron. I’m not Mikemc, and you’re Willhunt, Larry.

            Try following up on your tax issues. That tax lien you own will be on your credit report for a few more years.

        • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

            “I’d call unfortunate” More sarcasm, boob? The government knew that Solyndra would fail and guaranteed the loans anyway. Then, they restructured the agreement so that the government would be repaid last. It was a gift to his political cronies, and in that sense, is indeed “unfortunate”.

          • Neiman

            I am so glad you are around, both Gay Bob and Hannah obsess on you so much that they stay away from me more and I have more peace. Of course they stalk and attack you, but your grief is the price I am willing to pay for my peace :).

          • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ Proof

             They finish each other’s sentences so often, I’m thinking more and more of them as an inseparable couple. If you were to try to separate them, it would have to be to remove Hanni’s lips from Nutterbob’s backside.

          • Neiman

             As that great philosopher, Larry the cable Guy, would say; “that there is funny, I don’t care who your are.”

        • Gil
        • Gil

           Unemployment higher now than during Bush. Gas twice as high now than during Bush. And creating all those jobs so over 350,000 people every week can file for unemployment.You’re as fucking dumb as your butt buddy hanni.Or are you just blind?

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Yes, unemployment is higher now, you heard about the great bush/gop recession, didn’t you? But what was the bush trend, what is the President Obama trend?

            Better check your gas, Gilly.

          • Econwarrior

            “…the great bush/gop recession…” = the thirty year Dem affirmative action home loan mandate, which Dem Shumer finally crashed with a false rumor.  You just keep lying.
            obama’s mistakes keep the housing market in decline.

          • Gil

             Charts??? When Bush left office gas was $1.80 a gallon. Go check the pumps now, boooob.
            The obama trend…kill the economy.

          • Gil

             You heard about all those guys screwing that little slut you married, before you married her, didn’t you boooob? Rumor has it she taught hanni how to give head.

          • Gil

             Hey Booob, ya hear about Obama cutting medical benefits to our military people? Do you think he should be bitch slapped nine or ten times?

        • Econwarrior

          No, the failure of Solyndra was totally predictable.  Before a penny of taxpayer money was stolen by obama and his cronies, the Chinese were known to be able to produce those panels at half the cost at Solyndra.  Giving them our money was a criminal act from the very beginning.

        • Gil

           Still waiting for you to debunk that obama funded and helped install the Muslim Brotherhood, boooooob.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            Gosh Gill, still waiting for you to link us to something showing he did.

          • Gil

             Gosh boooob, I’m sorry you choose not to open the link I provided. But lets look at it from David Axelrods point of view. Why don’t you link us to something that proves he didn’t.

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