Say Anything Blog

Nothing to fear here.

the AVATAR
Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this could be their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce. 
And they go down fighting.

a clause ensuring that our national government would be a secular government.

Rob,

I don’t think freedom of religion makes government wholly secular.  Now I know that our creed, that all men are created equal and endowed with unalienable rights, is philosophical and not religious, but the first definately is followed by the latter.  American government stops short of establishing a religion, but that is not to say that the religious is completely absent from government or that government must turn a blind eye to anything religious.

As for Huckabees comments, this clip is exactly why he could never win the Presidency.  This sort of non-sense is exactly what scares the hell out of people.  The idea that our constitution should be ammended to follow Christian doctrine is utterly ridiculous.

Nothing to fear here.

Qualifier:  For those Christians who are willing to compromise liberty for being made to feel more comfortable in the world of politics.

For the rest of us, it sounds dangerous.

We need to amend the Constitution to conform to the Word of God, but I am inclined to believe we can substitute Allah for God and guys like Gene will go apeshit.  No way we go from a “Christian” nation to a “Muslim” nation.

Muslims believe that too.  It is called Shari’ah Law.  Places like Iran have guys like Huckabee talking about Allah’s law being absolute. 

I only wonder why Huckabee would choose to exclude Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Catholics, and so on from the political process.  See, Evangelicals are not the only Christians out there.  Each group has different doctrine and Huckabee certainly doesn’t speak for all of us.  So how do we come up with one standard on what God’s law actually is?

But Dobson and Huckabee don’t believe Mormons are Christians and Bob Jones doesn’t believe Catholics are either.  When he says shit like this and when you combine it with the religious bigottry he showed regarding Romney, it scares the holy hell out of me.

For one thing this is the kiss of death in the general election.  What kind of idiot brings up something that isn’t going to go through that’s going to scare off 70% of the voters.

For my part I’d like to see the government not to be hostile to Christianity.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

What kind of idiot brings up something that isn’t going to go through that’s going to scare off 70% of the voters.

This kind of stupidity takes something extra.  My money says that that something extra is probably a chromosome.

For my part I’d like to see the government not to be hostile to Christianity.

How about just following the 1st Amendment - keep government out of religion, and keep religion out of government?

For one thing this is the kiss of death in the general election.  What kind of idiot brings up something that isn’t going to go through that’s going to scare off 70% of the voters.

An idiot wanting to win a primary in which Chistian Coalition type and FRC fundamentalists Christians, such as Gene, form at worst/least a plural majority of the Republican electorate. 

Heck even our own Gene, would love see a the day when unmarried couples are are forbidden by low to live together, lol.

Your Own Gene Here, Took a break.

when unmarried couples are are forbidden by low to live together, lol.

How about making the live together laws as they were back in days of yore.  In ND if you lived together for 7 years as a couple, Padre or not, YOU WERE MARRIED.  If you decided to leave you needed a divorcement.

I liked that system.  It recognized the obvious and make living together long term a bad policy.

Heck, even Mary and Joseph lived together, they just didn’t.... You know.

the AVATAR
Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this could be their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce. 
And they go down fighting.

Socialist,

A thorough reading of the first amendment shows that only government is supposed to stay out of religion.  Religion, on the other hand, is (or should be) free to influence government.

Rob,

I imagine that the Huckster is trying to say, without coming out and saying it, that he is for amendments to ban abortion and gay marriage.  What he said is stupid and worse than just saying he is for those kind of amendments.  We can’t afford to elect this buffoon for either the office of President or even just the Republican presidential candidate.

--

Number 1 reason to not elect Huckabee: he’s from the same state that gave us Bill Clinton.

HOly, shit!

I was been facetious when I said that.  But now is seems to me you actually would be fine with making it illegal for unmarried couples to cohabitate, particularly when cohabitation includes having sex.

What an idiot this guy is; with his floating cross and all. I am a confirmed Republican, hate Liberals as a matter of fact. But the truth is, I hate religious zealots like this idiot as well, this is exactly the kind of non-sense that the Mullahs, Ayatollahs, etc., use to convince their followers to blow themselves up, keep religion out of politics, and Hickabee out of the White House.

Giuliani 08

This is the kind of thing that would push me to vote for a Democrat! I never thought I would EVER vote for a democrat. This guy is a nightmare!

but I am inclined to believe we can substitute Allah for God and guys like Gene will go apeshit.

And women like Anna will also.
Of course I would never fight against anything Christian but, on the other hand I would never in my life, force my beliefs onto those who wish not to live as I do.  Anyone who suggest I or others, live by the word of Allah will yes, indeed find Anna going “apeshit” crazy.
Anyway.. back on to the topic (I just had to add my cents to the crazy part is all)

I was wrong.  Common law marriage hasn’t been the law of the land in ND for some time.

See this for more info

But, IF I were king it would be.  You can be thankful I’m not. 

I’m not making civil law opposing private acts, I just believe that if it quacks, walks, has feathers all just like a duck, let’s call it a duck.

Looks like there are few states where common law still stands.

the AVATAR
Old Tigers are more dangerous when they believe this could be their last hunt.

From , “The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen”
Old tigers, sensing the end,
they’re at their most fierce. 
And they go down fighting.

Where does Proof live?  When he moves out of his mom’s basement he may have to get a divorce?

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

but I am inclined to believe we can substitute Allah for God and guys like Gene will go apeshit.

Me, too, and here’s why: Islam does not separate the secular and religious realms like Christianity does.  In fact, Islam wants to wipe out secularism.  It’s fundamentally different from Christianity in that respect.(pun intended)

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Anyone who suggest I or others, live by the word of Allah will yes, indeed find Anna going “apeshit” crazy.

Absolutely.  So what about Mormons and Catholics and Muslims and Buddhists and Athiests that are forced to live by Huckabee’s Evangelical interpretation of the Bible?

This is proselytizing.  A significant portion of the Christian Right see their allegiance to the Constitution and the country as secondary to that of God.  I can certainly understand their adherence to the Bible as being the most important thing in their lives and that is OK by me.  But many, many others have different allegiances.  Including many Christians that do their best to live by the Word of God, but have a more secular and pragmatic approach to things outside of their direct family and personal beliefs.

It is clear that folks like Huckabee do not believe that having internal religious convictions that guide your personal morality and are private ways that you go about your life is enough.  They view the role of a good Christian as that of a politician that must attempt to exert world influence and force their beliefs on others.  This comes out in many forms, but a growing one is that of supporting Israel because they believe that it is part of Biblical prophecy to usher in the Second Coming. 

So because of folks like Huckabee, it actually exacerbate the support and militance of the ACLU.  Athiests view statements like Huckabees as a rallying cry for them to boot Christianity out of the public square.  And to some extent, while I pretty much despise the ACLU, I find Huckabee and others like Dobson and Robertson to be almost as damaging to the cause of freedom and conservatism as the ACLU and the Secular Left.  I understand that Christian Conservatives are allegedly fighting to restore morality, etc., but I believe in freedom of action but in clear consequences for it. 

I would rather risk Robertson’s Dover, PA type Wrath of God and Tsunamis and Earthquakes and Stock Market Crashes that the douchebag tells us are going to happen if we don’t blindly follow his dictates, elect Huckabee, and become a Christian Nation than submit to his and Huckabee’s religious totalitarianism where they speak about following the Bible while at the same time telling Mormons and Catholics and Jehovahs that they are “not Christian”.

forced to live by Huckabee’s Evangelical interpretation of the Bible?

As for Huckabee… shoot, he’s crazier than a rabid coon dog.
There is nothing he would like better than to keep the discussion focused on freedom of religion and the ten commandments than the real issues he knows so little about.
A true Christian can clearly see what Huckabee is, Just as a true woman can clearly see what Hillary Clinton is.

Can anyone here really claim that they’re not trying to impose their moral views on others through the political process?  Reality is that as long as you’re taking taxes for a purpose, one faction is imposing their views on others, and other factions are objecting to it.  This is the reality of politics.

And BTW, Huckabee is NOT proselytizing here.  To proselytize is to bring people into one’s church.  Huckabee, rather, is simply advocating that the standards of morality accepted by the state conform to the stanards of morality subscribed to by about 90% of the population.

Is that so sinister? 

Moreover, the very laws that Huckabee suggests are simply rooted in the common law of England, which was in turn rooted in the Scriptures.  Whether we like it or not, the Judeo-Christian tradition has been powerful in shaping our laws.

And this is a good thing; would we prefer Sharia, or perhaps Marx’s ethics, as our guide? 

And let the “cross” go.  It’s a window frame, silly.

Moreover, the very laws that Huckabee suggests are simply rooted in the common law of England, which was in turn rooted in the Scriptures. Whether we like it or not, the Judeo-Christian tradition has been powerful in shaping our laws.

If that is true, why is he proposing a change?

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Calling people idiots, calling Gene names and etcetera do not create an atmosphere wherein a reasonable and fre exchange of views can take place.

(1) I suspect whoever above suggested that Huckabee was proably referring to outlawing abortion on demand and homosexual marriage seems to have captured the right spirit of his comments in my opinion. Of course, he should have said he wanted to outlaw these things and not that the Constitution should be amended to conform to the Word of God. Actually, I think the Constitution should be amended quite rarely and not in any emotional reaction to anything, which always produces bad law.
(2) Whoever suggested that the 1st Amendment was written to prohibit government from becoming entangled with religion, as in authorizing a state church; and not to prevent religion from influencing government, was on target and better understands the 1st Amendment that many others commenting here.
(3) Any suggestion to keep religion out of the public square betrays a gross ignorance of the Constitution and a clear anti-Christian bias that is most unattractive and dangerous to our liberty.
(4) Huckabee is hardly crazy (A psychiatric disorder) nor an idiot (I.Q. below 25), he is passionate about his faith to the exclusion of others not sharing that faith, it is quite unseemly how he is using his faith to garner votes; but at the end of the day, much to the horror of anti-Christian bigots here at SA, even if elected POTUS he cannot impose his Christians beliefs on the Congress or the people and therefore he presents absolutely no danger at all to our constitution or way of life. This is all unreasoning hysteria without purpose. Huckabee will not get nominated or elected POTUS, so this anti-Christian energy is wasted effort and could better be used to highlight Huckabee’s liberal record as Governor of Arkansas and to promote the best conservative candidate, at least in my opinion.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Bike Bubba, Robert108 and that incredibly great intellect and extraordinarily gifted writer Neiman got this right and the rest of you should take two Midol with straight vodka and chill out.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

so this anti-Christian energy is wasted effort and could better be used to highlight Huckabee’s liberal record as Governor of Arkansas and to promote the best conservative candidate, at least in my opinion.

Great, I bring up Hucks record in Ark-Kansas and get slammed for my efforts.

But for sure this is going to come up in the general election if Hucks the nominee.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Huckabee, rather, is simply advocating that the standards of morality accepted by the state conform to the stanards of morality subscribed to by about 90% of the population.

You mean 90% of the population wants Roe overturned?  Or do you mean 90% of the population wants an amendment to the Constitution to ban same sex marriages?

I believe that is what you mean, right?  Then those Constitutional Amendments passed overwhelmingly, correct?

Huckabee will not get nominated or elected POTUS, so this anti-Christian energy is wasted effort and could better be used to highlight Huckabee’s liberal record as Governor of Arkansas and to promote the best conservative candidate, at least in my opinion.

Neiman, I respectfully disagree.  If Huckabee were running on his record, and his beliefs only came up occasionally in passing (ala the way W ran his campaign), I would agree with you on that.  But Huckabee is not running on his record.  He is not running on any issues.  He is running solely on his Christianity.

Attacking his stances on the issues doesn’t sway folks like Gene.  We cannot sway them by pointing out Huckabee’s record or his stances on taxes and immigration.  They are the ones that are focusing on his Christianity.  It is therefore incumbent on us to focus on his actual positions on Christianity and his plans to implement his “Christian” policies such as amnesty for illegals because it is how Jesus would do things and banning gay marriage and abortion.

If he wants to run on his Evangelical views and make these the central part of his campaign, he is going to draw out folks that are disgusted by his brand of Evangelical preaching that Dobson, Robertson, and formerly Falwell spewed via the 700 Club and Fuckus on the Family.  And while I am a Christian and a believer in the Bible, I do not follow Huckabee and do not believe in imposing my beliefs on others.  I believe in democracy and a free market for ideas--let the best ideas win.  Sometimes, your ideas win and others they don’t.  that is what is happening with abortion.  It has taken 30 years, but the tide is turning and more and more people are opposing it, not because of their Christian beliefs, but because the practice is barbaric and unnecessary.  And as the age of viability has dropped and premies are being born and surviving at 5 months of gestation, it calls into question all of the second trimester abortions we have allowed in this country for three and a half decades.

Conservatism wins on ideas, not on morality.  Huckabee is appealing to this common chord of religious beliefs and I happen to be disgusted by it.  Instead of offering ideas, he offers sermons.

Ok, Ok, I apologize for calling him crazy. I should have said what he did was crazy.
Hopefully, that allows me back into your good graces again Neiman
LOL, but then, I am not done so we’ll see..
It does seem to me Huckabee is buying votes through his claim of Christianity. It’s extremely difficult for me to combine Christian and politician in the same body and not view it as an oxymoron.

Whistler: So, Huckabee gets nominated, doesn’t that mean a majority of Republicans thought he was the best candidate? That is wrong because they majority have no right to vote they way they want? If this terrible thing happpens, Rob, you, Justin and the majority here can can vote for the Hildabest or Osamabama and keep the SOB Christian out of the White House, right?

It is all so silly, Huckabee will not get the nomination, he has too many negatives and his big mouth will trip him up long before then. But if the very worst happened, just to pretend, do you really think the Congress will allow him to make this country into a Baptist theocracy? Also, if he won doesn’t that mean most people preferred him to anyone else? Isn’t that what Representative Democracy is all about?

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Huckabee puts his religion out there as the raison d’etre to vote for him.

And then some have the gall to demand that we ignore that.

Yeah, right. Go bark up another tree.

If that is true, why is he proposing a change?

Great question, 108.  The answer is that it’s not Huckabee who’s suggesting the change.  It’s his opponents, and if their argument (that the old common law provisions are overridden by the 14th Amendment and other law) holds, the only remedy in our Constitution is to re-insert those provisions of the English common law into the Constitution itself.

And Justin, read my context.  The fact is that about 90% of our country subscribes at some level to religions built on the Torah, Tanach, and New Testament.

And for the record, I hope that taking vodka & midol doesn’t make people think like me.  Don’t let me know if it has this effect on you!  :^)

Oh, and for reference, one of the chief distinguishing doctrines of Baptists (like myself & Huck) is something called “individual soul liberty.” No real Baptist is going to be found using the power of the state to force people into pews.

Justin: I do understand and I am not trying to make too light of the matter, maybe I just trust too much in the good sense of conservatives, even passionate Christians to think they would ever actually nominate him.

But, even if that terrible thing happened from your point of view, he would not be a dictator and so he could do very little to change anything. So, I am saying that there is no way he could impose his beliefs on anyone, he could only try and influence those closest to his views.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Likwidshoe: Having no desire to get you all upset again and in another one of your typical tirades:

Huckabee puts his religion out there as the raison d’etre to vote for him.

And then some have the gall to demand that we ignore that.

No one is ignoring it or suggesting we should! Those who disagree will not vote for him. Those that agree with him will. So, no one is ignoring his beliefs, some are only making much ado about nothing - he won’t get nominated.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Huckabee, rather, is simply advocating that the standards of morality accepted by the state conform to the stanards of morality subscribed to by about 90% of the population.

And Justin, read my context.  The fact is that about 90% of our country subscribes at some level to religions built on the Torah, Tanach, and New Testament.

If 90% of the population subscribes to this morality, why is there so much dispute of what that morality really says?  Why do over 50% of the population consider themselves pro-choice?

It seems that there is a lot of room for interpretation of what being a Christian really is.  Huckabee’s version of Christianity leaves no room for Mormons or Catholics or Jews and their interpretation of things.  We are not all the same.  That 90% is vastly different in the opinions on thing and their followers are vastly different.

While you want to find commonality, Huckabee is pushing views that some Evangelicals agree with, but by and large, most of the country do not.

No real Baptist is going to be found using the power of the state to force people into pews.

You don’t have to force people into the pews.  You force them into acting the way you want by outlawing their ability to choose their own actions.  This isn’t about “Gay Marriage” this is about homosexuality.  Gay marriage isn’t a sin, gay sex is.  When they talk about restoring the morality of the country, what they mean is stopping people from engaging in sin.  That is what this is about.  Abortion is sin and we need to stop it.  Gay sex is sin and we need to stop it.  We need to stop these kind of sins that offend God and are destroying the country.

This kind of stupidity takes something extra.  My money says that that something extra is probably a chromosome.

lol

Justin: Are you sure that you want federal intervention to “stop these kinds of sins”? I don’t support Huckabee - not because of his faith - but because he is a populist. And, like you, I have religious objections to abortion and gay sex. But the notion of the Feds as sin police is troublesome.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

Justin:

While you want to find commonality, Huckabee is pushing views that some Evangelicals agree with, but by and large, most of the country do not.

If that is true, why worry, won’t the most of the people reject him, even in the Republican Party?

You don’t have to force people into the pews.  You force them into acting the way you want by outlawing their ability to choose their own actions.

How can he do that without the consent of the Congress, SCOTUS and the people (the governed)? Until and unless a solid majority of all these people agree that these things should be outlawed, they won’t, will they?

Gay marriage isn’t a sin, gay sex is

But, if God only instituted marriage between men and women, wouldn’t men to men or women to women go against His Divine Order and thus be a sin? Besides, there are many arguments that homosexual marriage is bad for society and on a non-religious basis can be kept against the law.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

If this terrible thing happpens, Rob, you, Justin and the majority here can can vote for the
Hildabest or Osamabama and keep the SOB Christian out of the White House, right?

Wrong.  You are the only one here who is talking like that.  The rest of us have said, over and over, that we would favor any Republican over the commies the Dems have.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Actually, 108, not quite true--some here have said they’d sit out or vote donkey if Huckabee wins the nomination. 

And Justin, yes, Huckabee’s positions would ban certain actions, just as some of your political positions would change certain laws.  And your point is?

robert108: “Any Republican over the commies..” Good for you! And its the same thing I have frequently said. However, don’t be surprised if you get hit with the “most of our candidates are only marginally different then the dems… so who cares” argument.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

Actually, 108, not quite true--some here have said they’d sit out or vote donkey if Huckabee wins the nomination.

Any of those regular commenters?

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Robert108: Leave it to you to rise up on your high horse of personal superiority and try to start a fight over absolutely nothing at all.

But, this time I have to head back to work soon and I don’t have either the time or the interest in contributing to your inferior education and sagging intellect. As usual you choose to attribute emotions that are not present and to attack facts not in evidence so that you might stroke your own massive ego.

Whistler and Rob and others knew I was using that artisticaly licensed line solely to deflate the false idea that if Huckabee was nominated he could get ever actually be elected. By the way, Rob said that no matter what he would never vote for Huckabee, even if nominated, which kind of allows a little of the hot air to escape from your vacuous cranium, doesn’t it my personality challenged foe.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Besides, there are many arguments that homosexual marriage is bad for society and on a non-religious basis can be kept against the law.

Generally speaking, so-called “gay marriage” isn’t “against the law”; the requirements for real marriage simply don’t include same-sex couples.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Neiman: As usual, you reveal yourself by your reliance on personal attack.  You wrote what you wrote, and now you want to wriggle out of it.  Try honesty; it really works.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Rob said that no matter what he would never vote for Huckabee, even if nominated

What difference is Rob’s vote.  Huck is unelectable with our without Rob Port in his corner.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

OH PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, LET THIS GUY WIN THE gop PRIMARY.

If this guy doesn’t win, does it mean that “people” were listing to the wrong god?

Do the Christianists have a new interpretation of our 1rst amendment that is not commonly known?

And what about this feller?

“I’m going to submit to you that as believers in Christ Jesus, we are not even of America,” Wilton said. “We march according to a different drumbeat. Ours is not the Constitution of America; ours is the constitution of the Almighty God.”

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

OH PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, LET THIS GUY WIN THE gop PRIMARY.

So, the real antiChristian bigot wants Huck nominated.  Interesting.

I wonder what Neiman will make of this?

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Neiman - Likwidshoe: Having no desire to get you all upset again and in another one of your typical tirades:

Please. You flatter yourself. You don’t have that much power.

And let’s not kid ourselves. A “typical tirade” is an argument that you don’t agree with.

RBB: “WE march to a different drummer..” That’s really scary! Wilton uses the exact phraseology that all fanatics use, whether Christian, Jewish or Muslim. i.e “We are not bound by your laws. We obey [our version of] God’s law.”

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

rbbob - OH PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, LET THIS GUY WIN THE gop PRIMARY.

Good grief man. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.

Whistler: “What difference is Rob’s vote.  Huck is unelectable with our without Rob Port in his corner.”

I expected better from you of all people. Tsk tsk tsk! (a) I agree Huckabee is not electable, I said it first, I said it most often. (b) I made the point about Rob as a counter-point to Robert108’s absolute assertion, a judgment passed down from his heavenly throne, that everyone at SA would vote for the eventual Republican nominee. Someone else made the same point, just not mentining Rob’s name. His holiness Robert108 was absolutely wrong, he got called on it, that’s all. Get it? Got it? Good! The vessel with the pestle is the brew that is true!

Robert108: Please get down off youre self constructed throne for a minute, I know it will hurt, but you are not really God Almighty. Then run as fast as you can to the nearest Comedy Club and stay there until you get a freaking sense of humor, it make take a long time as you have none whatseover, which is the sure sign of a self-righteous megalomaniac. You caught me on nothing, you are wrong and I know that since you think you are divine and above error that is a bitter pill to swallow, but you are often completely wrong about moany issues. You are wrong again! Just ring the bell with your nose and a pellet will drop in the bowl as a reward.

Likidshoe: Well, at least I can yank your monkey chain anytime I want and make you jump around your cage, scream, chatter and pick your butt. It is a lot of fun, though getting too predictable.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Robert108: Please get down off youre self constructed throne for a minute, I know it will hurt, but you are not really God Almighty.

Nor are you, Neiman.  In fact, with all your preaching to everyone here, I would think you would be a much better representative of God’s Love than your hate-filled attacks demonstrate.  Shame on you!
I might be somewhat impressed if you ever made a logical point, but your way of dealing with disagreement is to make accusations and to spew insults that have no relationship with any reality other than your own.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Now, now Robert108: Are those tears in your eyes? Are you typing from a fetal position? I know I hurt your feelings, but you just have to grow up and stop playing the martyr! You started a fight as usual over a stupid, minor issue because you wanted to show off, beinga real man I punched you back, knocked you on your butt and like a bully you ran home crying to your mommy because you didn’t get your way with your lies.

You should not lecture someone about character flaws until you graduate from years of intensive psychotherapy!

You cannot be a child and throw tantrums forever!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Now, now Robert108: Are those tears in your eyes? Are you typing from a fetal position? I know I hurt your feelings, but you just have to grow up and stop playing the martyr!

No to all your questions.  As usual, you are living in your own delusional world, where you fancy yourself a righteous preacher, but you are really no examply of Christian Love at all.  You’re just a nasty troll.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Robert108: (1) So you are a Christian judging others like you do? Tsk tsk tsk! Methinks you need to take that Giant Sequoia tree out your own eye, before going after the splinter in mine, Gene’s or others. (2) You are just too easy to get you to throw a hissy fit when you don’t get your way, it is just too much fun. After earlier today I couldn’t wait to get home and see how you would explode. (3) Sadly, nothing will ever cause you to act even a little humbly about various issues, you will continue to insist you and you alone are absolutely right about everything and get all upset when others won’t bow down to you.

Well, I am done with you for tonight, you are getting really boring now!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Sadly, nothing will ever cause you to
act even a little humbly about various issues…

You playing the “humility card”, Neiman?  Now, that’s funny!

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

What a moron. These idiots act as if what they say will not be heard and read all over the world. HELLO!!! Electronic Age! Hucklebee want a Fundamentalist Christian Caliphate.  Two words. Fuck. Him.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Justin: Are you sure that you want federal intervention to “stop these kinds of sins”? I don’t support Huckabee - not because of his faith - but because he is a populist. And, like you, I have religious objections to abortion and gay sex. But the notion of the Feds as sin police is troublesome.

Not a chance that is what I want.  But that is what Huckabee is advocating for.

Neiman,

I don’t dispute that separation of powers makes him impotent to institute these type of things.  Nor do I dispute that he is unelectable.  But I really take issue with him saying this kind of shit, and also with saying the stuff he did about Romney and talking about Fred needing a laxative. 

Hucklebee want a Fundamentalist Christian Caliphate.  Two words. Fuck. Him.

And the horse he rode in on.  And James Dobson.  And Pat Robertson.

I surprised nobody has brought up Matthew 22:21, which I think applies here: “...And He said to them, ‘Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.’” I am a Christian, and believe the Bible to be the word of God.  But I also believe that God gave us free will for a good reason; we weren’t forced to be Christian, and we shouldn’t force our beliefs on anyone else.

"No Sane man will dance.”—Cicero

1.  Separation of church and state.  That’s enough. 
2.  If 1). is not enough, try this.  Christianity is a monotheistic religion.  All the major monotheistic religions have a single male god.  That’s sexist and egotistical(but I’m sure the leaders of these religions are working on correcting this as it would simply be ego preventing them from doing so).  So if Huckabee wants to insert god, no problem - but it must be a mother and father god so it’s not blatantly and obviously non-representative of half the population. He simply needs to have all the Bibles reprinted, all the church services and doctrines changed, reflecting a religion that does not omit women and favor men.  How could anyone who believes in treating families with respect ever condone a single male god and a religion that omits the mother in the Trinity.  I’m sure Huckabee would never do that.  I can just hear him now as he prays “Our Father and Mother who art in heaven” and calls upon the Holy Trinity: “Father, Mother, and Child” - If he doesn’t, his religion certainly has no place in our Constitution as it is against the family and certainly against motherhood in America.

How could anyone who believes in treating families with respect ever condone a single male god and a religion that omits the mother in the Trinity.

Well, I’m not sure.  How about we ask the hundreds of millions of female Christians out there?

"No Sane man will dance.”—Cicero

2hotel9: I like you and I truly understand your strong objections to Huckabee, but don’t you think charging him with wanting to establish a Christian Caliphate is just a tad into the realm of hyperbole and even fear mongering? Plus, just because you object to Huckabee’s unseemly use of the evangelical vote, is the phrase F*#k You really of any value, except getting your irritation of your chest?

Now I am not telling you how to react, what words to use and certainly not how to feel. The truth is though, this is a terribly important election cycle and I fear we may see Obama sweep into the White House and the Congress fall even deeper into Democrat control, which will harm us all. Christians have witnessed a growing governmental hostility to their faith in recent decades, they are hyper-sensitive to any perceived attack on their faith; and while you and I would agree on Huckabee’s candidacy, evangelicals will usually only perceive such rough talk as more Christian bashing rather than simply a rejection of Huckabee. This will only cause them to dig in their heels, defend a fellow Christian and further divide the party, thus making it much easier for us to lose power in this country perhaps for decades. So, I am only encouraging you to think about that aspect of this matter each time you want to react about Huckabee, hopefully point more to his liberal tendencies and keep the negative evangelical (Christian) comments to a minimum. That is just my opinion, for whatever it is worth

VBW: The words ‘separation of Church and state’ are not in our Constitution and for good reason. While our Founding Father’s felt it was critical in protecting individual forms of religuous worship to keep the government out of religion - not wanting any national Christian Church, they never intended to keep religious beliefs out government or the public square. Quite the opposite, virtually all of them believed in teaching the Christian Bible in all our public schools, using tax money to help the Christian faith to prosper and in every way felt there was a positive, salutary influence of the Christian faith on our nation.

Next, you apparently are grossly ignorant of the Judeo-Christian faith, God is a Spirit, neither male nor female and His use of the image of a Father, the Son as a man and the Apostles as exclusively men was that there might be deceny and good order among His children. However, he also made it clear that women had a positive ministerial role in the Church and home and in the Divine economy He sees neither male or female but only the Spirit of His children, all of them being equal in His eyes.

Before you attack the Christian Church, you really should do more research to avoid saying things that are so absolutely wrong.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

but it must be a mother and father god so it’s not blatantly and obviously non-representative of half the population.

Uh, humanity doesn’t define God, He defines Himself.

Quite the opposite, virtually all of them believed in teaching the Christian Bible in all our public schools, using tax money to help the Christian faith to prosper and in every way felt there was a positive, salutary influence of the Christian faith on our nation.

Public schools are a modern construct in their current form, so it is impossible to say that they supported something in a form that is completely new.  Not a fair argument.  They supported prayer as an integral part of most of their meetings and didn’t prohibit it, which of course I have no problem with.

I take major issue with any kind of government assistance targetted towards “Christians” when the very definition of Christian is so vague and problematic.  You have stated repeatedly that you do not believe Mormons are Christians, as Gene and many others have agreed with.  So if one is to offer assistance to Christian organizations, one would assume that Evangelicals would preclude offering assistance to an organization like Deseret Industries run by the LDS church. 

Therein lies the problem.  When Evangelicals talk about wanting a more Christian nation, that can easily be translated into wanting a less Mormon or less Catholic or less Muslim or less Jewish nation since each of these groups has different values and beliefs.  Basing our government’s values on Evangelical’s notion of right and wrong is harmful to other faiths.  Hence why the founders clearly believed government should make no laws establishing a national religion and that can be extrapolated into saying that government should not favor one religion over another, regardless of the historical context of the founding father’s beliefs.  At the time, there were no Muslims.  There certainly were no Mormons since the Mormon Church was founded in the 1830’s.  There were very few Catholics since we were settled primarily by Protestants from England.

Government should neither favor nor hinder religious expression.  Huckabee is implying that government should conform to Christian values, but that is vague and dangerous.  Hence why folks are so upset.

Next, you apparently are grossly ignorant of the Judeo-Christian faith, God is a Spirit, neither male nor female and His use of the image of a Father, the Son as a man and the Apostles as exclusively men was that there might be deceny and good order among His children. However, he also made it clear that women had a positive ministerial role in the Church and home and in the Divine economy He sees neither male or female but only the Spirit of His children, all of them being equal in His eyes.

Isn’t it kind of ridiculous to say God is neither male nor female, and than use exclusively the male pronount to refer to God.

Hawk: I don’t have time to educate you, but no, it is exactly correct. Perfect in fact.

Justin: Read the Northwest Ordinace, wherein bible teaching in all public schools was strongly encouraged, by Thomas Jefferson. This ordinance sets forth the requirements for statehood, and it strongly encourages teaching of the Christian Bible in public schools.

Hence why the founders clearly believed government should make no laws establishing a national religion and that can be extrapolated into saying that government should not favor one religion over another, regardless of the historical context of the founding father’s beliefs.

Quite right! Except, virtually al of them, even the deists promoted the Christian faith and it’s moral teachings as essential to our liberty. When I get back from work, if necessary, I’ll provide exact quotes.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

I don’t have time to educate you, but no, it is exactly correct. Perfect in fact.

Perfect?  That is a ridiculous statement.  The male pronoun for God is chosen because we view God as a man.  It is also the reason the Catholic Church does not allow women Priests.  It is paternalistic and certainly not perfect.

Hawk: I guess Almighty God the Creator of all life doesn’t come to you for advice, does He?

1st it is the English, KJV version, that uses the English word “Father,” in place of the Greek “pater.” It refers to a Spiritual relationship to the Source or Giver of Life, The Source of Divine Illumination, Protector, Upholder, etcetera. In human terms pater is the head of a family, as He is the Divine Head of a spiritual family, that being the children of God in Christ Jesus. He does not present Himself as this Father to those outside the Body of Christ.

The word pater was also used by the members of the Sanhedrin under the Old Testament Jewish establishment. It is also true that Jesus was born a man, albeit the God-Man and he only chose Apostles from among men. The Holy Spirit also commanded that women not be in a place of spiritual authority over men. So, you can get off the Catholic Church’s back. I am not a Roman Catholic, but the truth is they did not start the father label for priests.

Now as to why? Spiritual Truth, according to Jesus, can only be discerned by those born again of His Spirit; and, thus even if I provided you the reasons for this male image in the Church, you could not possibly understand it and would, even absent malice, use every word I offered as weapons to attack the Church. So, no cigar! If you want to understand why God is presented as our Heavenly Father, versus Mother or a Neutral term, go to a Spirit filled Christian Church and seek out the pastor that he might help you understand.

The male/father image is not anti-female any any shape, manner or form; females are not of any less value or loved any less than any male. They have unique gifts that are essential to the Church, they fill many vital ministries and will be received into Heaven as equal members of the Body of Christ. Anyone understanding Scripture would know that men are to treat all women as much loved sisters and if married men must treat their wives as Christ does the Church, even willing to lay down their lives to protect them from harm.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Nman, in a word, NO. Period. To even express such an anti-human thought makes Hucklebee the enemy of all humans. Just as OBL is. Just as Zaraquaiw is. Just as Hillary Clinton is.

Nehemiah Scudder, a literary reference should give a basis of reference on this.

I am an intolerant asshole. I will not brook religious totalitarianism, no m