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Saturday, November 22, 2008

How Long Will It Take For Obama’s Decision To Close Gitmo To Burn Him?

During the election Obama promised on multiple occasions to close the Guantanamo Bay detention facility currently being used to house detainees in the war on terror.  Here’s an example of what he said:

I have said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantánamo, and I will follow through on that. I’ve said repeatedly that America doesn’t torture and I’m going to make sure that we don’t torture. Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America’s moral stature in the world.

I’m wondering if Obama won’t live to regret those words.

On one hand, if he follows through and closes down Guantanamo - thus releasing the noxious terrorists kept there back into the world - I’d be willing to bet that it’d be a matter of a few months before those terrorists were making headlines again by having been caught participating in more terrorism and attacks.

On the other hand, if Obama doesn’t follow through and close Guantanamo - or if he pulls a Clintonesque move like closing that detention facility but moving the detainees to some other location, well now that’s not really the sort of hope ‘n change he campaigned on now is it?  Remember, Gitmo has become an issue so important to the left that the orange jumpsuits worn by the detainees there have become de rigeur at anti-war events across the country.

I’ll readily admit that there are no simple solutions for Gitmo.  I think the status quo is far from optimal, but I think Obama is about to learn that throwing rocks at the decisions other people have to make is much easier than having to make those decisions yourself.

Comments

Avatar for di butler

The question should be, where are those buttheads going to go if their own countries don’t want them back. I can’t believe anyone really wants them here.

di butler on November 22, 2008 at 03:41 pm

The detainees will be sent to
the Navy brig in South Carolina.
Not necessarily a step up for them.

WOOF on November 22, 2008 at 03:48 pm
Avatar for di butler

Too close to me here in GA. I don’t want them. I think I will start a protest. Seems like a dumb idea to move ‘em. They aren’t hurting anything right where they are.

di butler on November 22, 2008 at 04:04 pm

The question should be, where are those buttheads going to go if their own countries don’t want them back. I can’t believe anyone really wants them here.

Aren’t the Democrats also demanding that we don’t send anyone back to a country where they might be tortured.

So let’s say that the ACLU gets a judge to rule that we can’t hold a particular Saudi national who’s “probably” a terrorist. Maybe the people who arrested him know he’s a terrorist, but can’t make that case without compromising intelligence assets.

If we send him back to Saudi Arabia, he might very likely be tortured. If we send him to Iraq, he’ll try to overthrow the government. Do we just send them to London and hope everything turns out OK?

Wing Chun Geologist on November 22, 2008 at 04:13 pm
Avatar for brenarlo

Didn’t the Supreme Court say that Gitmo should be closed?

brenarlo on November 22, 2008 at 04:28 pm

Didn’t the Supreme Court say that Gitmo should be closed?

I don’t remember the ruling exactly, but I think what it said was that the government had to give the terrorists a trial.

Wing Chun Geologist on November 22, 2008 at 04:32 pm
Avatar for di butler

A trial affording them the rights we have as U.S. citizens?

di butler on November 22, 2008 at 04:36 pm

if they are let loose I just hope they wind up in DC and do their thing there ,.


"Socialism is a disease”

welder4 on November 22, 2008 at 04:58 pm

I agree with Rob. I really hope these suspected terrorists don’t get a fair trial. If that happens, who knows how many could get released? Why should I risk my life just so a possible criminal can get a fair trial by a jury of his peers? Not in this country, Ali Baba...these colors don’t run!

thetodd on November 22, 2008 at 05:06 pm
Avatar for jpe

Aren’t the Democrats also demanding that we don’t send anyone back to a country where they might be tortured.

That’s U.S. law.  We can’t send people to countries where we have reason to believe they’ll be tortured.

A trial affording them the rights we have as U.S. citizens?

Nope.  Just a hearing where the government has to reveal if it has any evidence at all to support the detention.  On the first round of 7, the government had no evidence - aside from one instance of hearsay w/in hearsay, so-called “double-hearsay” - to support the detention of 6 of them.

(note that if this were a trial in U.S. courts, with all the normal rights, that hearsay wouldn’t be admissible.  The gitmo detainees don’t have the rights of defendants in criminal court, so the judge could consider it.)

jpe on November 22, 2008 at 05:19 pm

I’m wondering if Obama won’t live to regret those words.

None of Obama’s sycophants remember what he said.

The anti-war crowd is just anti-Republican. As long as the person has a D behind their name they can do whatever they want.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on November 22, 2008 at 05:34 pm
Avatar for brenarlo

I really hope these suspected terrorists don’t get a fair trial.

Are you shitting me?  So let’s just forget about the guy or two who are actually innocent.  They don’t matter, right?  That’s a small sacrifice to pay right?

http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=121821;title=APFN

Apparently a federal court ruled that 5 of these 6 folks were held without sufficient evidence. 

Oops!  Sorry for taking those 5 years from you, folks.

brenarlo on November 22, 2008 at 05:35 pm

Obama has never in his political life been forced to be accountable for what he says.  He’s grand-standed in various legislatures and when things go bad, he has plenty of room to hide.  Now that he’s an EXECUTIVE, he’s gonna get a quick lesson in accountability....


I think Rob hates me… I mean, just look at the pic he took of me!

Sphagnum on November 22, 2008 at 06:10 pm

Are you shitting me?  So let’s just forget about the guy or two who are actually innocent.  They don’t matter, right?  That’s a small sacrifice to pay right?

Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet.

Just to be fer sure - fer sure.


...for great justice

2eaqln4.jpg

91bh36.jpg

52zx1x.jpg

Move_Zig on November 22, 2008 at 06:46 pm

Welder, Wing Chun,

as long as youse guys are gonna be Superheroes, I might as well dive into a nearby phonebooth or back alley and emerge as....

PHHAWHOOOMM!!!
294qqtd.jpg


...for great justice

2eaqln4.jpg

91bh36.jpg

52zx1x.jpg

Move_Zig on November 22, 2008 at 06:51 pm

Obama has never in his political life been forced to be accountable for what he says.


Sphagnum on November 22, 2008 at 06:10 pm

No politician is ever held accountable\forced to be accountable for what he/she says.
They may be held accountable for what they do though.

ellinas on November 22, 2008 at 07:12 pm
Avatar for Reith günstige Ferienwohnungen

terrorist are terrorist, they kill so why pity on them, just kill em all.

Reith günstige Ferienwohnungen on November 22, 2008 at 07:16 pm
Avatar for Kidtransport

Anybody know the total number of terrorists who were waterboarded and the total duration?
I think it was 3 terrorists. Total time of 90 seconds for all three. Got some good info out of the guy in the straightjacket,too. Ask John McCain how long he was tortured and what all they did to him.

Kidtransport on November 22, 2008 at 07:36 pm

oh no! obama’s granting basic human rights to these prisoners (in the way of actual justice) will bite him in the ass.

ah, but ain’t there a price to pay for having freedom and basic human rights? tell us about the cost benefit analysis on this one rob.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on November 22, 2008 at 07:38 pm

moral stature

please, lecture about moral stature now. heh.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on November 22, 2008 at 07:40 pm
Avatar for Kurt

There must be halfway houses in Washington DC that could take them.  A perfect location.

Kurt on November 22, 2008 at 08:05 pm

No politician is ever held accountable\forced to be accountable for what he/she says.
They may be held accountable for what they do though.

Not true in the slightest.  As President, Obama’s words will carry great power.  As a Legislator, Obama could speak out of his ass whenever he wanted and it wouldn’t matter much unless half of his fellow legislators agreed with him.

He’s gonna find a whole new meaning for the word “accountability” very, very quickly…


I think Rob hates me… I mean, just look at the pic he took of me!

Sphagnum on November 22, 2008 at 08:14 pm

Not true in the slightest.

Sphagnum on November 22, 2008 at 08:14 pm

I disagree with you. But I will not re-argue the fictitious WMD’s nor what candidate Bush promised about nation building, for we have debated the issues and disagree on the interpretation of the events. When candidates speak they offer us paradise. When they get elected, they deliver hell.

ellinas on November 22, 2008 at 08:24 pm

How long until this decision will burn Barry?

Depends on how fast they make it to the nearest battlefield or weapon to wreck havoc.

atease


atease

atease on November 22, 2008 at 08:27 pm

But I will not re-argue the fictitious WMD’s nor what candidate Bush promised about nation building, for we have debated the issues and disagree on the interpretation of the events.

Which is to say, you’ve been provided with facts that counter your claims, and you just decide to echo your claims anyways.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on November 22, 2008 at 08:40 pm

I heard that some of these assholes are going to go to the front of the line for citizenship.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on November 22, 2008 at 08:41 pm

I heard that some of these assholes are going to go to the front of the line for citizenship.

Can you cite something or do you just prefer to traffic in rumors.

Lioncourt on November 22, 2008 at 08:48 pm

Which is to say, you’ve been provided with facts that counter your claims, and you just decide to echo your claims anyways.


Kenny on November 22, 2008 at 08:40 pm

No. It only says that we disagree on what happened.

ellinas on November 22, 2008 at 08:57 pm

Apparently a federal court ruled that 5 of these 6 folks were held without sufficient evidence.

Oops!  Sorry for taking those 5 years from you, folks.

Yeah, and 2 of them who were released, were later killed on the battlefield in Iraq next to Al Quida in Iraq members.

Don’t talk to me about rights.  When did the prisoners from WWII get released??

Not till the conflict was over.


Gman ( o)==:::

No Shoulder Shrugs.  A lie left unchallenged soon becomes the truth.


Gman's signature
Gman on November 22, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Avatar for di butler

What a bunch of weenie passivists some of you are. War is hell. So they have to stay until all fighting is over. WAAAA. I guess we should do to them what they would do to our guys, huh? Would that make you feel better? We can just go ahead and lop off their heads? Much more humane. I bet some of you would change your tune if someone you loved was decapitated by these assholes. You would be out for blood in a heartbeat.

di butler on November 23, 2008 at 01:35 am
Avatar for Bullwinkle

Can you cite something or do you just prefer to traffic in rumors.

- Lying asshole, making a joke?

That’s hilarious, especialy coming from a proven liar like you. Downright hilarious.

Tell us again how Bush listened in on EVERYTHING. That would really be the icing on the lying cake, you lying piece of shit.

Bullwinkle on November 23, 2008 at 03:07 am

Zig , I think that is shazammmm!no super hero here if I were I would do something about the mess we are in. it is better then My last avatar .whats up with the car, gun what ever you have .looks like a double barreled sports car, cool


"Socialism is a disease”

welder4 on November 23, 2008 at 04:34 am
Avatar for daniel

I agree with Kurt send them to half way homes in DC or in San Francisco they would be happy there.

daniel on November 23, 2008 at 05:26 am

I agree with Kurt send them to half way homes in DC or in San Francisco they would be happy there.

Yeah, SF, maybe they would serve two purposes if we could get them to lop off the heads of the anti-prop 8 folks who are going to overturn the will of the people in the courts, AGAIN.


Gman ( o)==:::

No Shoulder Shrugs.  A lie left unchallenged soon becomes the truth.


Gman's signature
Gman on November 23, 2008 at 06:49 am
Avatar for jpe

I guess we should do to them what they would do to our guys, huh?

That’s what we’re doing by releasing them.

jpe on November 23, 2008 at 07:42 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/04/bush-dangerous-gitmo-deta_n_110835.html?page=3&show_comment_id=14003768#comment_14003768

https://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/403664.aspx

WASHINGTON - The White House said Thursday that dangerous detainees at Guantanamo Bay could end up walking Main Street U.S.A. as a result of last month’s Supreme Court ruling about detainees’ legal rights. Federal appeals courts, however, have indicated they have no intention of letting that happen.

The high court ruling, which gave all detainees the right to petition federal judges for immediate release, has intensified discussions within the Bush administration about what to do with the roughly 270 detainees held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on November 23, 2008 at 08:42 am

Goon : if they are let loose I hope they let them loose around the DC area and they get killed there trying to blow up the white house . we don’t need to lend a helping hand to our enemies but that is what is happening . what a sick perverted bunch of idiots that are running this show today in Washington.


"Socialism is a disease”

welder4 on November 23, 2008 at 09:01 am

Yes,

I agree with Rob. I really hope these suspected terrorists don’t get a fair trial.

In a fair trial, the guilty are convicted, the innocent are released.

1)Are you against fundamental human rights, or are you just an ignorant piece of shit?

A)Absolutely.
B)See answer A.
C)Plea the fifth.

We have dozens of convicted felons pulled off of death row yearly, declared innocent. In a situation as hectic and chaotic as a warzone, are you telling me that, without exception, every person encarcerated at Gitmo is without a doubt guilty?

If nothing else, you need a lesson in probability.

If that happens, who knows how many could get released?

However many are declared innocent in a court of law, as exonerated by hard evidence, not hearsay.

Why should I risk my life just so a possible criminal can get a fair trial by a jury of his peers? Not in this country, Ali Baba...these colors don’t run!

Jingoist racist fuck.


"Experience… that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” -CS Lewis

Eddie_the_Hated on November 23, 2008 at 01:06 pm

Goon : if they are let loose I hope they let them loose around the DC area and they get killed there trying to blow up the white house . we don’t need to lend a helping hand to our enemies but that is what is happening . what a sick perverted bunch of idiots that are running this show today in Washington.

Good call, please don’t release them in our community.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on November 23, 2008 at 01:23 pm
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