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Tuesday, May 02, 2006

How Liberals Justify Their Dissent

I'm sure you all are familiar with the liberal assertion that just because they are avidly against the war on terrorism doesn't mean that they are unpatriotic. One of the liberals favorite proof of their dissenting patriotism is to quote Thomas Jeffersons alleged statement 'Dissent is the greatest form of patriotism.'. But as Mark Steyn writes in Where's the dissent about source of quote?

According to the Jefferson Library: "There are a number of quotes that we do not find in Thomas Jefferson's correspondence or other writings; in such cases, Jefferson should not be cited as the source. Among the most common of these spurious Jefferson quotes are: 'Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.' "

It was the Aussie pundit Tim Blair who noted the Thomas Jeffefakery. American commentators were apparently too busy cooing that "Kerry may be reflecting a new boldness on the part of liberals to come out and say what they believe and to reclaim the moral high ground on patriotism" (CBS News) to complain that KERRY LIED!! SCHOLARLY ATTRIBUTION DIED!!! Instead, KERRY MISQUOTED!! MEDIA DOTED!!!


But in keeping with their reputation of not worrying about the truthfulness of their statements, the media and liberals join hands and minds in proclaiming that .

Indeed, America's hardboiled newsmen can't get enough of the Thomas Jefferbunk. The Berkshire Eagle used it as the headline for last year's Fourth of July editorial. Mitch Albom of the Detroit Free Press thundered: "We need to stop slicing this country in half, and saying those who support this act or this politician are 'good' Americans, and the rest are not. Sometimes 'dissent is the highest form of patriotism.' I didn't make that up. Thomas Jefferson did."

Er, no. You made up that he made it up. But former Georgia state Rep. Mike Snow uses it, and Miranda Yaver of Berkeley wore it on a button to the big anti-war demo in Washington last year, and Ted Kennedy deployed it as the stirring finale to his anti-Bush speech: "It is not unpatriotic to tell the truth to the American people about the war in Iraq. In this grave moment of our country, to use the words of Thomas Jefferson, 'Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.' "


Interestingly, but not surprisingly, since the organization is notorious for concocting false notions, it was someone from the ACLU that first uttered the fictitious Jeffersonian quote:

As far as I can tell, it was Nadine Strosser, the ACLU's head honcho, who cooked up the Jefferson fake. At any rate, she seems to be the only one who ever deployed it pre-9/11. Since then, however, it's gone nuclear, it's everywhere, it's a bumper sticker and a T-shirt slogan and a surefire applause line for the entire Massachusetts congressional delegation. As Sen. Kennedy's brother so memorably said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what a fake quote can do for you."


It seems that the mantra of the Democratic party has become dissent. As Mark so aptly puts it:

But the high holiness of dissent for its own sake is now the core belief of the Democratic Party: It's not what you're for, it's what you're against.

Dissent for its own sake is like the Democrats' energy policy: We're opposed to any kind of energy; we prefer to be mired in enervated passivity. If the right is full of armchair generals, the left is full of armchair generalities: Nothing can be done, any course is futile, everything's a quagmire. All we can say for certain is that saying so for certain is the highest form of patriotism


The lies about the patriotism of dissent have permeated our entire society particularly in the school system where children from kindergarten to college seniors are indoctrinated to be 'patriotic' dissenters.

It's truer to say that these days patriotism is the highest form of dissent -- against a culture where the media award each other Pulitzers for damaging national security, and the only way a soldier's mom can become a household name is if she's a Bush-is-the-real-terrorist kook like Cindy Sheehan, and our grade schools' claims to teach our children about America, "warts and all," has dwindled down into teaching them all the warts and nothing else. Or as the Capital Times of Madison, Wis., concluded its ringing editorial on the subject: "Thomas Jefferson got it right: 'Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.' And teaching children how to be thoughtful and effective dissenters is the highest form of education."


However the Democrats can't be too comfortable about this stance if they have to use false Jeffersonian quotes to justify their actions. Indeed, one would think that spending most of ones energies on negativism would take its toll because it would seem to be grossly abnormal to continuously express dislike for the place that has nurtured you and is your home.

Comments

Avatar for diane

Where does it say anything about following a rich oilman President over the cliff in his oil wars being patriotic?  Perhaps Hitler’s followers would buy your definition of patriotism, but not thinking Americans.  They place the good of their country over one oilman and his handlers.

diane on May 2, 2006 at 06:26 am
Avatar for Hoodlumman

diane, you left out the word ‘Halliburton’ in your DU-screedpoints post.

You wannabe... 

Hoodlumman on May 2, 2006 at 06:34 am
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Regardless of what Thomas Jefferson had to say on the subject, I do feel that dissent is patriotic.  What isn’t patriotic is dissent just for the sake of dissent.

Sort of like what we get from a lot of democrats and the left right now.  They just don’t want to admit that the Republicans do anything right.  The economy is rocking right now, but do you think you could get democrats or the left to admit that?  No.  They won’t, because admiting that something is going well under Republican leadership isn’t in their best interest.

Sort of like how they demagogue the war and a lot of other issues as well.

That is the sort of dissent I don’t like, because it isn’t even really dissent.  It is just partisan idiots shooting off at the mouth because their "side" isn’t in power.  If you want your dissent to be taken seriously you have to be able to admit when the "other side" gets something right.  There aren’t a lot of people involved in politics who can do that these days.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on May 2, 2006 at 06:45 am
Avatar for Chief RZ

These are lies-- 

Kerry:  "I will never forget Christmas in Cambodia".   Repeated and included in the congressional record numerous times. 

Clinton:  "I did not have sex with that woman".  Notice the distance, that woman.

Quoting sources is not a lie.  Making up quotes and attributing them to dead people is deception--attempting to associate with people of integrity to elevate your own status. 

Speculating on a person’s motivation is gossip.

Chief RZ on May 2, 2006 at 06:56 am
Avatar for diane

diane, you left out the word ‘Halliburton’ in your DU-screedpoints post.

You wannabe... 

Hoodlumman on May 2, 2006 at 9:34 AM Don’t put words in my mouth, I said what I wanted to say.
diane on May 2, 2006 at 07:02 am
Avatar for modern instances

I’m sure you all are familiar with the liberal assertion that just because they are avidly against the war on terrorism doesn’t mean that they are unpatriotic.

I know plenty of people who oppose the war in Iraq, but not the war on terrorism.  The invasion of Afghanistan had overwhelming support.

modern instances on May 2, 2006 at 07:11 am
Avatar for diane

 know plenty of people who oppose the war in Iraq, but not the war on terrorism.  The invasion of Afghanistan had overwhelming support.

Ditto, but you’ll never convince Bush NeoCONS there’s any room for logic or patriotism apart from lemminghood.   The Bush Administration has proven their ‘war on terrorism’ is a complete farce with the open borders they promote.  Just a ruse to get the PNAC in place.

diane on May 2, 2006 at 07:18 am
Avatar for Seth Yantiss

Where does it say anything about following a rich oilman President over the cliff in his oil wars being patriotic?

 Too bad the Iraq war isn’t about oil.  But hey, you can’t be right all, some, any of the time, can you?

Seth Yantiss on May 2, 2006 at 07:22 am
Avatar for FreeRepublicans.com

 Too bad the Iraq war isn’t about oil.

I’m still waiting for my cheap oil.  The Democrats said we were going to get cheap oil, where is it!!?!?!?!!? 

FreeRepublicans.com on May 2, 2006 at 07:23 am
Avatar for modern instances

A check for a hundred bucks is on the way Freer!  Oh, wait, no it isn’t.

modern instances on May 2, 2006 at 07:38 am
Avatar for robert108

Dissent is reasoned debate, not intimidation by mob waving signs(or pitchforks and torches).  Lefties have to lie, since they can’t tell the truth about their real agenda, which is to destroy the American way of life.  Making up a false quote from TJ is par for the course for them.

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 08:08 am

As far as I can tell, it was Nadine Strosser, the ACLU’s head honcho, who cooked up the Jefferson fake.

Er, no. It was actually Howard Zinn. Did Steyn’s speechwriter endeavor to point that out? "Hey, boss, diss ain’t a Strosser quote."

So Steyn is just another conservative who’s willing to lie for political gain. This is how conservatives justify their dissent (of the ACLU). 

Oh, and by the way, don’t expect the media to challenge Steyn’s mis-statements. They have a "reputation of not worrying about the truthfulness of their statements" to uphold!

The Republicans can’t be too comfortable about this stance if they have to use false Strosser-ian quotes to justify their actions.

Dave on May 2, 2006 at 08:53 am
Avatar for Chief RZ

I haven’t found many people who protest against "the war" who even know that we are in over 75+ locations around the world.

Chief RZ on May 2, 2006 at 08:59 am
Avatar for robert108

Dave: It’s still a fake quote!  TJ never said it.  Did you forget that part?  All your leftie pals are parroting it.  Doesn’t that concern you?

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 09:03 am

It’s still a fake quote!  TJ never said it.  Did you forget that part?  All your leftie pals are parroting it.  Doesn’t that concern you?

It’s still a fake quote!  Nadine Strosser never invented it.  Did you forget that part?  All your rightie pals are parroting it.  Doesn’t that concern you?

I’m just amazed that you can’t see the irony in an author misattributing a quote in an article in which he expresses outrage over someone misattributing a quote. Both sides did the exact same thing.

<mock indignation>Doesn’t that concern you?</mock indignation>

dave on May 2, 2006 at 09:16 am
Avatar for modern instances

Re: the TJ "quote", there are so many mis-attributions to him, as well as Benjamin Franklin, Mark Twain, etc., that have become part of the American lexicon, that trying to correct them all would be an exercise in futility.  I gave tours of Jefferson’s home for several years, and many average citizens would tell me how they learned that Jefferson invented the copying machine.  He didn’t, but try telling them that.  You can go through Jefferson’s correspondence and pull out a quotation that fits any occasion.

modern instances on May 2, 2006 at 09:20 am
Avatar for robert108

MI:  So, this is the "everybody does it" defense?

Dave: So, this is the "moral equivalency" defense? 

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 09:27 am
Avatar for robert108

Nice distraction, guys!  What really matters here is not which leftie lied about what TJ said to justify their intimidation mob tactics as dissent, but that they are lying about the true nature of dissent.

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 09:32 am
Avatar for student student

I think it is important to criticize the president and other people we have put in to office. Just as there are job evaluations, we must be able to evaluate the president on several levels- as many as you can.

We cannot all be zombies to the government. After all, this blog DOES criticize the government.

student student on May 2, 2006 at 10:02 am
Avatar for Chief RZ

student --  constructive criticism is helpful.  destructive criticism, especially without any helpful alternatives is counterproductive.

MI-- All lies are just that.  There are some people here with the integrity not to mis-quote others in an attempt to elevate their own status.  Several "reporters" (or former) have been doing this for decades.  In fact, some like Walter Duranty have overlooked facts:

 http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/2006/01/nyt-communist-since-1920s.html

Chief RZ on May 2, 2006 at 10:12 am
Avatar for robert108

ss: It’s also important to criticize the criticizers, especially when they lie or use violence in their "criticism".

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 10:16 am
Avatar for davee

Don’t you understand that these people are using Jefferson wrongly in an attempt to give credibility to their dissent is patriotism assertion.

Don’t you understand that Steyn is using Nadine Strosser wrongly in an attempt to score a cheap political point bashing the ACLU?

This is such a silly post. Let’s have a new one on all the people who’ve misattributed "Oh what a tangled web we weave When first we practice to deceive" to Shakespeare.

davee on May 2, 2006 at 10:26 am

Chief writes: 

 There are some people here with the integrity not to mis-quote others in an attempt to elevate their own status. 

And Mark Steyn is clearly not one of them.

dave on May 2, 2006 at 10:28 am
Avatar for Bat One

Well, this is certainly going to endear Mr. Zinn to the vast majority of law-abiding Americans:

“In other words, obedience to government certainly is not a form of patriotism.”

Taken from the same interview with Sharon Basco referred to by Dave above. 

Bat One on May 2, 2006 at 10:32 am
Avatar for robert108

davee:  You wrote: "Let’s have a new one on all the people who’ve misattributed "Oh what a tangled web we weave When first we practice to deceive" to Shakespeare."

Why?  Are the lefties using that to justify their web of lies about their treachery in the war on terror?

This thread isn’t about an attack on the ACLU.  It’s about the lefties lying about their treachery in attempting to undermine the war on terror.  Wake up and smell the commies! 

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 11:04 am
Avatar for diane

A check for a hundred bucks is on the way Freer!  Oh, wait, no it isn’t.

modern instances on May 2, 2006 at 10:37 AM It is if you visit certain desperate hotels, who I just heard on the news are giving out vouchers for gas.  Thanks to Bush’s immoral war, the tourist industry is hurting.About it bringing down the price of oil....you guys are naive.  It was supposed to UP the price of oil.  And it is.They just play with you and you don’t even know it.Hey Chief, there are good alternatives apparent to those of us who dissent.  You just don’t like them.
diane on May 2, 2006 at 11:38 am

A google on the phrase gets a hit on a gazzillion leftist sites that DO attribute the phase to Jefferson which supports the subject of this post.

You’re acting like this is some vast left-wing conspiracy. A lotta guys get misquoted over the centuries. It doesn’t mean there’s any malevolence involved. You don’t see literary critics blaming the Russian Formalists for misattributing Scott’s "What a tangled web we weave..." quote to Shakespeare, do you?

Dave on May 2, 2006 at 01:34 pm
Avatar for daave

Docdave ejaculates: 

Interestingly, but not surprisingly, since the organization is notorious for concocting false notions, it was someone from the ACLU that first uttered the fictitious Jeffersonian quote

That is not true. Yet you wrote it anyway, not "worrying about the truthfulness of (your) statements."

What should I conclude from this? Should I conclude that you’re intentionally misquoting Strosser to support your hatred of the ACLU? Or that you just made a careless mistake?

A rational person would clearly believe the latter; Mark Steyn, however, would go with the former. There just HAS to be a malicious conspiracy behind it! Why else would someone misattribute a quotation that "gazzillions" of others have similarly misattributed???

And finally, regardless of who said it, do you really believe that it is unpatriotic to dissent from your government? Cuz that’s just sad.

daave on May 2, 2006 at 01:43 pm

You mean it isn’t?  How do you know.

Yeah. The onus probandi really lies with me on this one.  ’Cuz if I can’t prove that there’s NOT a vast left-wing conspiracy...well, then, it MUST be true!

dave on May 2, 2006 at 01:47 pm
Avatar for robert108

The lefties continue to lie to cover up their treachery to undermine the war on terror.  SSDD

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 01:55 pm

How do you know? Are you spying on me?

No, I read your post. You "uttered suddenly and passionately;" i.e., ejaculated.

Must mean that you’re losing.

Oh, most definitely.

By the way, docdave, did you know that aliens landed in Roswell New Mexico???

Dave on May 2, 2006 at 06:06 pm
Avatar for robert108

Illegal aliens;  what else?

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 06:29 pm
Avatar for MikeAdamson

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." - President Abraham Lincoln

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President." - President Theodore Roosevelt 

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1912

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." - George Bernard Shaw

 

MikeAdamson on May 2, 2006 at 07:57 pm
Avatar for robert108

MikeA:  Your quotes apply to the way I felt about Clinton and his immoral administration.  I didn’t support treachery against the country because of that, though.  GBS doesn’t speak for me.

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 08:03 pm
Avatar for MikeAdamson

Your quotes apply to the way I felt about Clinton and his immoral administration.

Then you understand the feelings that some people have for Bush. 

GBS doesn’t speak for me.

I’m shocked.  wink 

MikeAdamson on May 2, 2006 at 08:34 pm
Avatar for robert108

MikeA: I also felt that way about LBJ and Jimmy Carter, but my point is that I didn’t support 24/7 undermining of my country to make those Presidents look bad.  That is the difference with what the lefties are doing under cover of "dissenting" with the President.  Trying to get this country to go down the tubes economically and exposing it to risk from its enemies during wartime are not dissent;  they are at least disloyalty and at most, treachery.

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 09:03 pm
Avatar for MikeAdamson

I also felt that way about LBJ and Jimmy Carter

Not to mention the marxist Eisenhower and his lies about the military-industrial complex. 

 Trying to get this country to go down the tubes economically and exposing it to risk from its enemies during wartime are not dissent;

I can certainly agree with your statement and for the sake of my American friends I hope we never see such attempts. 

MikeAdamson on May 2, 2006 at 09:11 pm
Avatar for robert108

MikeA:  "marxist Eisenhower"? 

"Such attempts" have been going on for five years now in my country, 24/7.  Wake up and smell the MSM and the Dems.

robert108 on May 2, 2006 at 09:50 pm
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