How Canada’s Health Care System Survives: They Routinely Ship Patients To America

Proof • July 2, 2009

Liberals are fond of pointing to Canada as a way that health care should be done. But it’s worth noting that without America’s free market system with readily available care available to take on overflow from Canada thanks to rationing and inefficiency Canada’s health care system would probably collapse.

Health Reform: A critically ill premature baby is moved to a U.S hospital to get the treatment she couldn’t get in the system we’re told we should emulate. Cost-effective care? In Canada, as elsewhere, you get what you pay for.
Ava Isabella Stinson was born last Thursday at St. Joseph’s hospital in Hamilton, Ontario. Weighing only two pounds, she was born 13 weeks premature and needed some very special care. Unfortunately, there were no open neonatal intensive care beds for her at St. Joseph’s — or anywhere else in the entire province of Ontario, it seems.
Canada’s perfectly planned and cost-effective system had no room at the inn for Ava, who of necessity had to be sent across the border to a Buffalo, N.Y., hospital to suffer under our chaotic and costly system. She had no time to be put on a Canadian waiting list. She got the care she needed at an American hospital under a system President Obama has labeled “unsustainable.”
Jim Hoft over at Gateway Pundit reports Ava’s case is not unusual. He reports that Hamilton’s neonatal intensive care unit is closed to new admissions half the time. Special-needs infants are sent elsewhere and usually to the U.S.

If I were Canadian, I’d be hoping that America didn’t go to government health care. Because as you can see above, America serves as a pressure relief valve for Canada’s system. Not to mention the government health care systems of country around the world.

Tags: Uncategorized

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

Yeah, all ignorant cons are against a government option until they have a handicapped kid or one with enormous health problems or parents who need lots of expensive care. In the latter case they quietly and gladly cash the checks from Medicare. In the former cases they clamor for government help. Just ask Sarah Palin and her “special needs” baby.

But that’s how conservatives are. Bad citizens, bad neighbors and poor excuses for humans. Unwilling to contribute but very willing to take whatever they can.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

In the same paragraph that Woof quoted is this.

Title I allows individuals to reduce the exclusion period by the amount of time that they had “creditable coverage” prior to enrolling in the plan and after any “significant breaks” in coverage.[2] “Creditable coverage” is defined quite broadly and includes nearly all group and individual health plans, Medicare, and Medicaid.[3] A “significant break” in coverage is defined as any 63 day period without any creditable coverage.[4]

Which means exactly what I said. You can transfer from policy to a group plan at your new employer at any time.

Jeez woof, you’re really coming off here as ignorant or dishonest.

LMAO!
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

If you don’t like the HMO you can get a different job with better benefits.

Your argument very much shows that government health care is wrong because it would take away all options. (Aside from going to Mexico to get their great health care and paying for it out of your pocket.)
robert108

Liar Obama has already confessed that, if his wife and daughters got really sick, he wouldn’t use the “govt option”; that’s the bottom line. Govt stuff is always inferior.
Kay

My son routinely runs into “medical tourists” at his job here in Minot.. Most recently was a gentleman from Winnepeg down for surgery because, according to him, “I got sick of waiting”.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

What a terrible lie you told Woofie. Of course you can move from one group health care plan to another.

You really need to quit getting your information from the Daily Kos and pay attention to reality.
Wing Chun Geologist

Here in the Coachella Valley, medical tourism is a booming business. Canadians routinely come to the Eisenhower medical center for heart surgery, hip replacements, eye surgeries and cancer treatments. Paying out of pocket is commong for Canadians hoping not to die before getting treatment.
http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

Senate Committee on Commerce testimony:

My name is Wendell Potter and for 20 years, I worked as a senior executive at health insurance companies, and I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick — all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

If your insurance company fails to deliver what they are contractually obligated to they can be sued.

How much do you want to bet that the government eliminates that option for Obamanacare?
SigFan

In a free-market system if you are unhappy with the care you are given, or the coverage you get from your insurer is not satisfactory, you have the option to go and look elsewhere. You also have the option of paying for the care you want or need out of pocket. It may be expensive, it may be painful, but it is your choice. Not a perfect system, but still better than the alternative.

In Obamaworld, if you don’t like the level of care you get, TFB. You can go back to your government provided one-room apartment and stay there until you die because there are no other choices. I will gladly take the right to choose for myself over having some moron in a government office decide what I should or should not have.

If DC really wanted to fix health-care they would enact tort reform. Get the bloodsucking ambulance chasers out of the picture so that doctors and insurers don’t live in constant fear of bankruptcy through malpractice suits and the costs will come down significantly. But then the Trial Lawyers Association would stop ponying up the big campaign contributions and we know that pols love them that cash.

People who advocate for the nanny-state, cradle to grave, government safety net simply do want to take the responsibility for their own lives, risk that they might be wrong, and refuse to accept the consequences of their own decisions. Go check into a day-care center and let the baby-sitter decide for you when you can have your milk and cookies. Let the adults get on with their lives.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

Think it won’t happen here. ND put a moratorium on nursing home construction supposedly to save the state money. That’s led to having to scramble to find a nursing home bed out of town when it’s needed.

Government has no heart.
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

Where will your HMO send you if you have special needs?
Let’s look at the list of approved providers.
First your going to have to make an appointment with your primary and fill out a 56/ADH-11B

Well, let’s point out that the HMO doesn’t have the power to deny you care. It can simply refuse to pay for it. You can override them and take on the pay yourself. That option is usually not available in a government controlled system. It wasn’t until recently that Canada even allowed people to buy private insurance. That used to be illegal.
http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

But that’s how conservatives are. Bad citizens, bad neighbors and poor excuses for humans. Unwilling to contribute but very willing to take whatever they can.

Dino: Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong?
SigFan

People who advocate for the nanny-state, cradle to grave, government safety net simply do want to take the responsibility for their own lives,

Sorry, missed the NOT part of do not want …
http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

Where will your HMO send you if you have special needs?

Funny! HMOs were government’s (and Ted Kennedy’s) fix to the the health care industry several decades ago. How well has that worked out for us?
robert108

On a different note, without the huge amount of oil that we purchase from Canada(our biggest source of imported oil), they couldn’t afford their expensive system. Ditto the fact that we essentially provide for their national defense.
Without US prosperity, Canada would be a Third World country.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

That is you can move from one group health care plan to another without worrying about preexisting conditions.

The purpose of the preexisting coverage is to prevent people from waiting until they get sick before they sign up to get insurance. The point to insurance is to belong all the time, not just when you think you need it.

Liberals have a problem with that because they think someone else should be paying for what they want when they want it.
SigFan

It’s always fascinating when lefties whine about “pre-existing conditions”, while failing to mention how many conditions are mandated that most insured persons don’t want or need.

Yep, like my being required by the state of PA to have pre- and post-natal care in my insurance plan. My wife and I are in our mid-late fifties, don’t have kids and if we have kids at this point it’s either the second coming or I’m suing the hell out of somebody!
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

I am insured by a mutual non-profit company. They don’t have Wall-street investors.

Frankly I think that lady is lying, but even so there are options out there.

Obama wants to end that and have the worst possible “insurance” for everyone.
robert108

It’s always fascinating when lefties whine about “pre-existing conditions”, while failing to mention how many conditions are mandated that most insured persons don’t want or need. Part of the escalating price problem is the continuing expansion of coverage for politically-correct conditions that affect only a small fraction of the insured.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

Jeez woof, you’re really coming off here as ignorant or dishonest.

Sorry I meant “your really coming off here as ignorant and/or dishonest.
robert108

Sig: Not to mention coverage of same-sex “partners”, sometimes along with unmarried heterosexual “partners”, sometimes not.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

Here’s where Dino shuts down the discussion with a simple request:

Please give us some hard numbers, some data, anything that indicates a quantifiable measure of the Canadian hordes on their pilgrimage for American health care.

The health care/insurance industry is spending untold MILLIONS to influence this debate. Surely they can find a few dollars to collect some easily obtainable data on the Canadians seeking American health care! How better to illustrate their horror stories of the evils of government involvement in health care?

Oh, what’s that? There isn’t any data showing that?

Then STFU until you have something besides your tired LIES.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

Here’s where Dino shuts down the discussion with a simple request:

Please give us some hard numbers, some data, anything that indicates a quantifiable measure of the Canadian hordes on their pilgrimage for American health care.

The health care/insurance industry is spending untold MILLIONS to influence this debate. Surely they can find a few dollars to collect some easily obtainable data on the Canadians seeking American health care! How better to illustrate their horror stories of the evils of government involvement in health care?

Oh, what’s that? There isn’t any data showing that?

Then STFU until you have something besides your tired LIES.
robert108

That should be “…nationalized healthcare…”
robert108

Little dino: Several examples have already been furnished, and even one example refutes you. The claim for nationalized health insurance is that it takes care of everybody. If that were true, then nobody would have to go anywhere else.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

Please provide data along with cause and effect reasoning that indicates there are Canadians “routinely” coming here in large numbers seeking health care.

You stupid fucking stem.
pparets

Actually, Dino has lots of ways to shut down a discussion… like disappearing when presented with the facts he asked for.

The usual banal challenge from Dino…

You can’t post a link because Walmart benefits are shit.

At Wal-Mart, a Health-Care Turnaround

Once vilified for its stingy health benefits, the world’s largest company has become an unlikely leader in the effort to provide affordable care without bankrupting employers, their workers or taxpayers in the process. From its headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., the retailer is doing in the real world what many in Washington are only beginning to talk about.

At a time when other firms are scaling back or eliminating health coverage, Wal-Mart has made a serious dent in the problem of the uninsured. New figures being released today show that 5.5 percent of its employees now lack health insurance, compared with a nationwide rate of 18 percent.

The company has also put into practice many of the innovations that experts say will lead to higher-quality, more efficient care. Using its high-tech marketing savvy, Wal-Mart has introduced digital records, partnered with prestigious organizations such as the Mayo Clinic, and begun targeting costly health problems such as obesity and premature births.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/02/13/ST2009021300507.html

Were you special-ed, STD?
SigFan

From the American Thinker:

More than 150 critically ill Canadians – many with life-threatening cerebral hemorrhages – have been rushed to the United States since the spring of 2006 because they could not obtain intensive-care beds here.

Before patients with bleeding in or outside the brain have been whisked through U.S. operating-room doors, some have languished for as long as eight hours in Canadian emergency wards while health-care workers scrambled to locate care.

The rest of the article is here:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/01/critically_ill_canadians_rushe.html

One example of Canadians seeking a specific type of care. How many others? If their system is so great, why do ANY need to come here?
robert108

Again, little dino: The claim for nationalized healthcare is that it takes care of everybody. If even one person has to go somewhere else for healthcare, it hasn’t taken care of everybody. It’s simple logic, but beyond your ability to understand.
robert108

BTW, the cause and effect reasoning, which little dino has never used for any of his claims, is simple: Nationalized healthcare involves rationing by bureaucrats, which ignores the real needs of patients. Therefore, it cannot take care of everybody, despite claiming to do so. Govt rationing cannot call forth the needed supply, resulting in both shortages and long delays for treatment, as well as simply refusing treatment for patients who don’t meet the inhuman govt guidelines.
pparets

Dino thinks that cause/effect means ‘Cause an uproar by making some vulgar comment for effect’.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

Dear PP,

Saying that only 5.5 % of Wal Mart employees lack health care benefits says nothing about:

1. If WalMart is providing those Benefits. How much is already publicly provided?

2. What level of benefit? Catastrophic only? Deductibles?

Also, your weak attempts at defending the present system (because YOU have benefits, if you didn’t you’d be clamoring for help) doesn’t address the out of control costs or decreasing access to care and the number of businesses dropping benefits.

Typically, you miscreants fight all efforts at improving life for people. We can’t forget how you ignorant savages fought Medicare but happily watch your aged relatives get good quality care without I bankrupting the whole family.

I’ll say it again:
You’re simply bad citizens and bad people. Perhaps the worst the world has to offer.
robins111

As a Canadian living just 20 minutes from the border, I can tell you that it is often the case where we go to the United States for treatment.

The socialized medicine of Canada has also contributed to a massive immigration of the “good doctors” heading south to practice. (the money’s better)

Someone should ask the Democrats ‘why do most “working” Canadians have private health insurance plans”?

What will happen, when the level of service and competence drops off the scale?

The only people whe benefit from socialized medicine are the welfare class, who are usually second or third generation on the dole.
http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

I was watching For Our Xenophobes earlier, ya know, just for the comedy gold.

I think I was Huckabee (maybe it was someone else) who when told that Walmart covers 90 something percent he stopped the guy to correct him saying it’s really only about 52% because in their statistics walmart include workers who are covered by other family plans or other insurance plans.

The guest mumbled in acquiescence and continued off on a different lie.

Like I said, C O M E D Y G O L D
WOOFX

Where will your HMO send you if you have special needs?
Let's look at the list of approved providers.
First your going to have to make an appointment with your primary and fill out a 56/ADH-11B
WOOFX

If your sick you will have a hard time getting another job and pre-existing conditions would disqualify you from new insurance.
Whistle wrote:

If you don't like the HMO you can get a different job with better benefits.
WOOFX

Group health plans may refuse to provide benefits relating to preexisting conditions for a period of 12 months after enrollment in the plan or 18 months in the case of late enrollment

From Whistles link

Just hang on for 18 months and we'll see if you qualify
http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

Typically, you miscreants fight all efforts at improving life for people.

– Dino, getting it wrong, as usual…

Idiot fag, typically, you are whining about coservatives fighting improving the lives of others when the reality is we are for them being allowed to improve their lives all by themselves. What a gay-assed moron..
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

American Thinker is a right wing blog started by neocon jews, the Pajamas media nuts and assorted right wing fanatics.

Saying "150 people" over 3 years sought care here is not credible considering the source and the very low number.

Surely the highly profitable health care industry can afford to provide some hard data, issue a paper, maybe even interview some of these desperate Canadians. All I read here is "my brother-in-law's co-worker's sister's aunt twice removed met this guy one time who was at a Walgreens in Montana having his blood pressure taken because he was on a waiting list in Nova Scotia and got impatient."

You have NOTHING, STEMS. Nothing but your own ignorance, greed, fear and bad genetics.
Bat One

Perhaps I missed it while I was working, but where exactly does it say that WalMart, or any other private sector commercial enterprise, has any sort of legal obligation to provide any sort of benefits to its employees?

How about it, Swish? Got a legislative citation to share with the rest of us?
robert108

Since little dino has no facts, logic or cause/effect reasoning to back up anything he says, he has to go with lying smear. Your vile incompetence is noted, little dino.
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

Saying that only 5.5 % of Wal Mart employees lack health care benefits says nothing about:

It doesn't have to you syphilitic buffoon. If 94.5% of all employees are covered, it shoots down your idiotic claim that no one is covered at WalMart.

Stupid brainless liberal asshat.
Bat One

American Thinker is a right wing blog started by neocon jews, the Pajamas media nuts and assorted right wing fanatics.

Considering the source of that tantrum, gotta figure that American Thinker is a pretty thoughtful and reliably accurate source of information overlooked by the Obama-infatuated mainstream media. And it is.

Still, I wonder why the reference to "jews" was necessary. How about it, Swish? Did the Hijab slip off exposing your anti-jewish bigotry?
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

That is correct. There is no requirement that employers provide benefits. That is why WalMart provides so little despite PP's massaging of statistics.

If employers DID stop providing benefits we would have single-payer government health care OVERNIGHT. Few of you stems could afford to take little Wyatt and Madison to the pediatrician for those persistent ear infections much less your Triple bypass from all that fast food. The premiums would eat you ALIVE.

That's the future you face with no controls on costs and the consolidation of the industry that has given providers near-monopoly power. More people will lose coverage and quality. But until it hits you it's not a problem, right? Fuck the people without care, let them die.

What else can we expect from conservatives who would shit on their excess food rather than share it?
pparets

Forgive me for asking, Dino, but how is an article linked directly from the Washington Post "massaging" statistics?

You demanded a link, "any link", and I gave you one.

Faced with that, you do what you do best… you shift the goal-posts.

"Well, that's not what I meant."

"Well, that proves nothing."

"Well, how do we know what the details are?"

"Still, they aren't required to do.."

"stems", "evil people", "worst citizens", blah, blah, blah…

You are so fucking transparent and predictable, STD.

After this, when you post, just put "Dino", and let us fill in the rest. HAHAHAHAHAHA!
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

You're right. There's no problem with the system. 100% of WalMart employees have health care benefits, they all live in castles and take limos to work every day. That's why so many depend on Medicaid when they get sick.

Why, WalMart is better than the auto companies! Funny how you people DESPISE unions that fought to give their members great benefits but adore Walmart who you claim gives their people the WORLD and at low low prices!

Conservative mythology perpetuated by the most selfish, ignorant people on the planet.
pparets

As usual, Dino, your rant makes zero sense. YOU and only YOU demanded proof that Walmart provied healthcare to it's employees.

The proof was given to you.

Faced with that, you shift the goalposts.

When that didn't work, you resort to vapid mockery – your favorite little tool – since it makes you feel good.

retarded STD
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

Dear PP,

Did you read the whole article, stupidshit?

To reach near-universal coverage, the largest private employer in the nation relies heavily on the government and other employers to play a role. Of the company's 1.4 million workers, 52 percent are in a Wal-Mart health plan. Despite revenue that is expected to exceed $400 billion for 2008, the company charges its low-wage workers a substantial portion of their income for medical coverage.

Though proud of what it sees as dramatic progress, Wal-Mart itself warns that in a global market with a weakened economy, it cannot — or will not be able to — accept annual health-care increases of about 8 percent indefinitely.

So then they're counting the employee's second job and the government to take up the slack? They charge their LOW-WAGE workers a SUBSTANTIAL PORTION of their income for medical coverage? They plan to scrap their efforts if premiums keep rising as they have? What happened to the other 42.5%? Did they hand them a box of band-aids?

You are one dumbshit con.

Wait, there's more:

…labor activists complained that workers had to wait up to two years to qualify for the company health plan, which in many cases cost nearly 10 percent of the typical $20,000-a-year salary.

Yes, some U.S. companies did not provide any health insurance. But the skimpy Wal-Mart coverage seemed particularly galling compared with the billions in personal wealth amassed by the company's founding family, the Waltons.

Wow PP, that WalMart is SURE A PACESETTER!

I would have beat you with this earlier but was at work and couldn't do the proper research.
pparets

Dino, on the Walmart thread…

I think they favor a public option so they can stop providing health care for the 2% that they give benefits to now.

The WashPo article…

52 percent are in a Wal-Mart health plan.

asshole STD
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

You don't understand sarcasm?

So tell us, PP. That 52%. What is their coverage like? $5000 deductible? $400 a month premiums on a $1100 per month salary?

You do realize that the 42.5% are on government health care assistance, right?

WalMarts should BURN.
pparets

Dino, the first time on the Walmart thread…

I think they favor a public option so they can stop providing health care for the 2% that they give benefits to now.

Dino, a second time on the Walmart thread…

You're right. It's probably less than 2%.

Dino, a third time on the Walmart thread…

You can't post a link because Walmart benefits are shit.

Dino, now…

You don't understand sarcasm?

lying, dishonest STD
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

Obfuscate away, WalMart provides SHIT benefits IF ANY and certainly nothing like the 94.5% you claimed.

Nitpick at sarcasm all you want. You LOST this one as you do most of the debates. You just keep changing the subject until the thread disappears……

Ignorant STD-carrier.
pparets

Dino… no where did I suggest or claim that Walmart covered 94.5% of it's employees.

You demanded a link. I gave you one.

The obfuscation since that event has all been yours.

"STD-carrier"? Hahahahahahahaha! Christ… you aren't even capable of originality!

STD asshole.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

Offering a link that didn't prove your point means nada.

Bottom line:

WalMart offers shitty benefits and has warned that if costs aren't controlled they'll even drop the shitty benefits they offer. Just as Obama predicted. That's why smart people want a government run option to give the health care monopolies someone to compete with. But the free market capitalist ass-kissers like you don't want to see the insurance aristocracy harmed.

That's the soul of conservatism. The desire to create and worship an aristocracy. It's like conservatism is a cult of submissive freaks.
pparets

Dino…

Offering a link that didn't prove your point means nada.

Maybe syphillis has infected your brain. If you read the whole Walmart thread, no where did I offer any "point".

You demanded a link – any link – showing that Walmart provides any healthcare.

I linked you to The Washington Post article.

If you have any bitch, its with them.

dumbfuck STD
http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

Someone has been reading too much poof and Graves …
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

Pparets, why do you bother?

Dino doesn't care about the facts, and has repeatedly stated so. He would knife you in the back if he were homeless and you fed him.
http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/america_is_back/#c397018 DINO

But Kenny, a conservative would NEVER feed a homeless person. They enjoy seeing others doing badly as it makes them feel better about themselves. They'd SHIT on their excess food rather than share it.
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

But Kenny, a conservative would NEVER feed a homeless person. They enjoy seeing others doing badly as it makes them feel better about themselves. They'd SHIT on their excess food rather than share it.

Yet the only example of public destruction of food while people were hungry goes to FDR. The liberal Democrat.

You lose again you filthy fascist.

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