Hope ‘N Change: Obama Backs Away From Iraq Troop Withdrawals

• December 5, 2008

Because we’ve already won the war, which is what neither he nor any of his sycophants in the media is going to tell you.

There always was a tension, if not a bit of a contradiction, in the two parts of Mr. Obama’s campaign platform to “end the war” by withdrawing all combat troops by May 2010. To be sure, Mr. Obama was careful to say that the drawdowns he was promising included only combat troops. But supporters who keyed on the language of ending the war might be forgiven if they thought that would mean bringing home all of the troops.
Pentagon planners say that it is possible that Mr. Obama’s goal could be accomplished at least in part by relabeling some units, so that those currently counted as combat troops could be “re-missioned,” their efforts redefined as training and support for the Iraqis. . . .
To date, there has been no significant criticism from the antiwar left of the Democratic Party of the prospect that Mr. Obama will keep tens of thousands of troops in Iraq for at least several years to come.

I congratulate Obama for his pragmatism. At this stage in the game, a precipitous withdrawal from Iraq (which is what he promised during his campaign) is the worst possible thing we could have done in Iraq. That he won’t be doing it now is welcome news, even if it is a broken campaign promise.

Tags: Domestic Issues, Politics

http://Array Dino

Well yeah. What’s he supposed to do? Bush ties us in deep and he’s supposed to clean up?

You’ll get your way. We’ll be there for decades. Too bad your stupid kids will end up paying for it literally and tangetially through a diminished future.

If all goes well for the brainstems we’ll be at war forever someplace. This country has no othe purpose or meaning than aggression against some enemy somewhere. It’s the story of this country and not likely to change.

It’s a CESSPOOL.
di butler

He doesn’t want to be responsible if things go tits up if we pull out of there. Get Real. If you think he really gives a shit about whether we are there or not, you are fooling yourself. He is going to do whatever what is going to reflect best on him. Grow up. He’s a politician, not your buddy.
Dino

But that’s true. Idealistic people, those who seek improvement in the culture, are a smaller group. Not smarter, just more open to change, in some cases radical change. Changes that scare the majority.

Can you imagine how the majority reacted to the idea of free slaves, women voting, etc? They were against it. Strongly. It took many years of work by the minority to convince the status quo seekers of the need for change.

Name me one instance where that has not been the case, for any of the ideals we cherish as free people.
Dino

Yeah di, everyone else here is so full of love and laughter.

Every thread topic is a new outrage. A new complaint. A new excuse for conservatism’s failure. A new finger pointed at imaginary enemies. A new group to fear and loathe.

You know, you’re right. I am the only dark cloud here.
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml Angry Vertebrate

You’re exactly right 2Hotel9, and I can’t believe I actually agree with you on something.
robert108

Iraq prior to the sanctions was a very westernized country in the Middle East.

Pure insanity! That lie shows a complete disconnect from reality.
Rezistik

The term “free market” means “freedom of entry and exit”. The idiot doesn’t even know that simple truth.

No. It doesn’t mean that at all…Robert108 what are you doing with your life? Get an education my man. Or perhaps a dictionary. If a free market was about freedom of entry and exit then why is it so many Cons cry foul when businesses are taxed or regulations are put in place to protect workers and consumers?

A free market is about allowing people looking to maximise profits in the short term destroy everything around them if it benefits them.

Dino is very much right, it was liberals and progressives who drove the majority of American culture, women wouldn’t be able to vote were it not for liberals and slavery would still be in existence if it weren’t for liberals.

Oh and America wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for those damned liberal revolutionaries…

Democracy was liberal in and of itself because it was “new” for the era, it hadn’t been tried succesfully for over a century which back then was a long time. The conservatives also known as loyalists fought with the British Kingdom because they feared change.

So you can thank us Liberals for…so much.
Mickey

laugh-a-day Dinoisms:

This country has no othe purpose or meaning than aggression against some enemy somewhere. It’s the story of this country and not likely to change.

Oh, I never had any illusions that America would be anything more than the fascist craphole it’s been my whole life.

But this country is still too filled with ignorant miscreants to make any lasting, important changes. Besides, Americans only allow drastic change when in severe pain which could still happen here soon.

you conservatives oppose everything. That’s the foundation of conservatism- preservation of the status quo.

And when you talk of free markets what we hear is “the freedom to screw others out money, destroy the environment, use child labor, basically anything that nets me some cash”. You know why we feel that way? Because that has been the result historically. This financial crisis is just the latest free market criminal enterprise.

there was only one war that America needed to fight for freedom and that’s the Revolutionary War. All others were wars of aggression that have been romanticized as us being the good guys when in fact we were either interlopers or aggressors. And none of which would have resulted in the demise of our freedoms had we sat by and not participated. That is even more true for the wars since WW2.

Dino, do your eyes spin counter clockwise to each other?

Can you imagine what hell it must be to have to live with this guy? Whoever that person is they have my sympathy.
http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml Angry Vertebrate

Why so much Obama-anti from conservatives? His economic “dream team” should be enough to get any conservative aroused.

Take this guy for example:

the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that. — Lawrence Summers

Obama is surrounding himself with a bunch of these types, including those responsible for much of the financial crisis.

Obama is the next Boris Yeltsin, he’ll nearly transfer public money to the kleptocrats as fast as Bush.
HG

Dino,

You are far from cherishing freedom when you decry free markets and free market solutions. The same is true when you decry all war without which American’s freedom would not be realized. You know little of what you speak Dino. Change, if it means less civil liberty and more collectivist liberal nonsense, has been the failure of economies and opened the door to oppression in nations throughout history. Of course we conservatives oppose it.
2Hotel9

Funny, AV:TFR, Barri is reconstituting the Clinton Admin. No Change or Hope in that.
Mickey

Well yeah, you conservatives oppose everything. That’s the foundation of conservatism- preservation of the status quo.

The center of conservative ideology revolves around morality and ideas. Behavior, responsibility and accountability are the foundations of society. Conservative ideology is clear: We exist not to replace or destroy our past, but rather to improve and build upon what has preceded us. That process improves not only society, but the individual as well.

The center of leftist (as opposed to classical liberal) ideology revolves around wealth – or rather, the redistribution of wealth. As far as leftists are concerned, responsibility and accountability are one way street. Government and the approved ideologues are responsible and to held accountable for the redistribution of wealth.

Further, leftist ideologies abhor restraints on behavior. There are no behaviors that are unacceptable- none. The only constraints are the claimed justification of those behaviors. Some are acceptable, some are not. To kill a political/religious opponent in the name of leftist ideologies is good. To kill defending oneself from those ideologies is bad.

I don’t feel for the troops that are republicans. The few that aren’t have come back and speak out against the atrocities. I say leave the republican troops there.

As the killings in Iraq before the war were broadcast for the world to see and the deliberate slaughter of kurds became apparent, the left behaved predictably: they were to remain silent.

Iraq prior to the sanctions was a very westernized country in the Middle East. That’s why republicans used to like Saddam, he had hopes to make Iraq more like us.

They would not vociferously condemn the atrocities and they would not loudly condemn the perpetrators. For them, those deaths while tragic, only got in the way of an agenda that has overseen the deaths of hundreds of millions over the course of the last century. Murderous and genocidal behavior has never bothered the left before and the attacks in Iraq and Kurdistan were not going to change that. It is the leftist agenda that is sacred.

Leftists believe that consuming wealth is the same as creating wealth. They also believe that a consumer society is the same kind of society that facilitates the creation of wealth. To that end, those to whom redistributed wealth is apportioned, are good. Those who create the wealth, are bad. That in a nutshell, is the definition of populism- a government says â€˜We will take care of you, cradle to grave. We will give you what we take from others.’

And when you talk of free markets what we hear is “the freedom to screw others out money, destroy the environment, use child labor, basically anything that nets me some cash”. You know why we feel that way? Because that has been the result historically. This financial crisis is just the latest free market criminal enterprise.

Leftists see the redistribution of wealth and materialism as an expression of values. That is why they believe they can buy their way out of any confrontation of evil. They cannot accept the truth that evil is defeated by defending and insisting upon a set of values and behaviors from everyone and standing firm.

Leftists do not want to acknowledge that evil is defeated by values and not by sharing wealth. That is why leftists are comfortable with taking the sides and defending some of the most dysfunctional and despicable tyrants to be found anywhere. They believe that their â€˜enlightened’ ideas of wealth distribution will change pathological behaviors.

Dino, you are the Dinosaur here. Destined for the dust bin of history.
robert108

Can you imagine what hell it must be to have to live with this guy? Whoever that person is they have my sympathy.

You assume this ignorant psycho is capable of having a human relationship.
HG

Nevermind Dino, I forgot, you like to play in the sewer.
HG

And when you talk of free markets what we hear is “the freedom to screw others out money, destroy the environment, use child labor, basically anything that nets me some cash”.

Dino,

Anarchy isn’t civil liberty and laws are necessary, even labor laws which protect the liberty of others. Your hearing needs adjusted. You are clueless about many things, liberty being the most obvious.
pparets

Dino foams at the mouth again…

Arguably, there was only one war that America needed to fight for freedom and that’s the Revolutionary War.

According to him then, the Civil War, in which more than 400,000 northern soldiers lost their lives to bring an end to the Confederacy and institutionalized slavery, was merely a romanticized war of aggression.

Thus, Dino demonstrates that he knows even less about the history of this nation than he does about homosexual activist politics.
http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

This is yet another example that exposes the empty suit and The Truth comes out.
HG

Dino,

You speak your mind, I’ll give you that. Of course, I’d be quite embarrassed to speak so absurdly then claim to be the tip of the intellectual arrow. No matter, I’m glad you are on display here. People need to see you lefties for what you really are.

I won’t be handing any children a bill for the payment and I don’t plan on staying in this country after I retire.

What, your earning potential here is too good to leave now?
Yeah, that’s America for ya.
I’m looking forward to your retirement as much if not more than you are.
Dino

Oh, I never had any illusions that America would be anything more than the fascist craphole it’s been my whole life. Yes, I was excited about Obama’s election but only because the republicans were routed in a big way. Also, his uniqueness, stature, intelligence, you know, all the tings republicans lack.

But this country is still too filled with ignorant miscreants to make any lasting, important changes. Besides, Americans only allow drastic change when in severe pain which could still happen here soon.

My tastes run more towards Kucinich or Nader, who I voted for in 2000. But I also realize that those of us with that advanced intellect and mindset have always been in the minority. Though it sometimes is distressing I realize that the point of the arrow, that which leads, is always smaller.

Both Obama and even Clinton (both of them) were of the same type as me but for political expendiency they had to moderate to win over the likes of people like you, or rather, people a bit more to the left of you.

However, I have seen incremental change in my life towards much more social liberalism which pleases me. As for the war, let it drag on forever. The people being sent there to die are largely republicans (not that I want to see anyone hurt, I just find it more acceptable that they are cons who chose to go there for the most part), I won’t be handing any children a bill for the payment and I don’t plan on staying in this country after I retire.
http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com/ Steve

Great post!!

Would you guys like a Link Exchange with our new blog COMMON CENTS where we blog about the issues of the day??

http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com
http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

I repeat. Why does any of us acknowledge Dino’s presence?
HG

Looks like Dino has caught on the the “change” Obama is now engaged in. Who would of thought is meant he will change his mind about most of what he said in the campaign?
robert108

Why so much Obama-anti from conservatives? After trashing the President, he is essentially promising to continue his economic policies, because that actually makes sense. We know he’s lying, and will loot the achievers as soon as there is some economic growth to plunder. The stock market sees right through him, and investors don’t want to get ripped off by his real pirate economics. His economic “dream team” should be enough to get any conservative aroused. Once again, totally fake. He’s a Marxist/black separatist, like Mugabe.
HG

It’s a CESSPOOL.

Dino, why not get the hell out of here then?
Dino

di honey, isn’t that a bit odd coming from someone who thinks Rush is a humanitarian oxy head?

But it’s a good day for the right seeing as they get to try and glorify their war. Sickness.

I don’t feel for the troops that are republicans. The few that aren’t have come back and speak out against the atrocities. I say leave the republican troops there.
robert108

He’s undoubtedly trying to become a Master Baiter.
HG

Another sad day for the left.
robert108

Now that we have elected a leftie fascist as President, you might actually have hit on something here, dino. Even a blind squirrel…

The people being sent there to die are largely republicans (not that I want to see anyone hurt…

Self-contradiction. You hate everyone who doesn’t follow your totalitarian ideology, and want us all dead. It just shows your insecurity about your own views, if you need to kill everyone who has a diversity of opinion. Of course, you have proved your intolerance and hatred for freedom with every comment.
di butler

I gaveup on the Dinoster a while back, he is like a kid with ADD, he can’t stay on topic. I don’t even care to bother now. I can’t help but wonder,though, how bad someone’s life is that they would say America has been a craphole his entire life. That sounds like a shitty childhood. He also talks about being so happy and “gay,” but he spends every minute on here spewing the most negative stuff in the world.
pparets

108, I have come to the conclusion that dino is here for the sole purpose of baiting and obfuscation.

He simply flits from topic to topic [always of his choosing]spewing insults and misinformation along the way.

He could care less about facts and logic.
robert108

Can you imagine how the majority reacted to the idea of free slaves, women voting, etc? They were against it.

Wrong again! Those were powerful, entrenched minorities, with disproportionate political power, like you leftie crazies are today, trying to impose your will on the majority, and throwing a hissyfit when you don’t get your way.
robert108

Totalitarian lefties hate freedom.
Dino

Well yeah, you conservatives oppose everything. That’s the foundation of conservatism- preservation of the status quo.

Not sure if I believe the line about the majority opposing slavery. I could find no indication of that and not sure how you could be sure. I mean, did they have Gallup polls then? I did find that there was opposition from the beginning but it was bitterly opposed by many in both the north and the south. Those opposed were most surely conservatives of their time. If a majority opposed it as you say, it would not have persisted for as long as it did, over 100 years!

The same goes for women’s right to vote. Your ideological ancestors fought that too. Think about it. Opposing change, particularly social change and rights for smaller groups, is a defining characteristic of the conservative!

If it’s elitist of liberals to think they are better for trying to improve life for those seekingf fairness then I’m gladly an elitist.

And when you talk of free markets what we hear is “the freedom to screw others out money, destroy the environment, use child labor, basically anything that nets me some cash”. You know why we feel that way? Because that has been the result historically. This financial crisis is just the latest free market criminal enterprise.

Arguably, there was only one war that America needed to fight for freedom and that’s the Revolutionary War. All others were wars of aggression that have been romanticized as us being the good guys when in fact we were either interlopers or aggressors. And none of which would have resulted in the demise of our freedoms had we sat by and not participated. That is even more true for the wars since WW2.
http://www.ski-blog.com/ sayanything-24

But it’s a good day for the right seeing as they get to try and glorify their war.

No it is a good day for US foreign policy. It certainly makes us look more unified and stronger. This is good for us putting pressure on Iran which becomes even more critical now.
Mickey

Let’s hear it for the “good guys”. Our troops cleaned up a nation and a culture that was lost to islamo fascism and a brutal dictator whose two psycho-sons used rape and torture on their own citizens for entertainment. We neutered the terror strangle hold that al queada had on the region and we freed millions Iraqi and Kurds. Our soldiers gave those people a second chance for a normal, safe life. They now have a Parliament and a working Democratic style government. All thanks to “The Good Guys”.

Who really gives a rat’s ass what the Dino’s of the world think. I know I certainly don’t.
robert108

I don’t want anyone dead.

You said it, so were you lying then, or are you lying now? Either way, you’re a liar.
Dino

I know you’d like to believe the Civil War was fought over slavery but it wasn’t. Like most wars it was fought over MONEY. Just like the Iraq was isn’t about “liberating the downtrodden Iraqis” either.

The south didn’t want to play with the north anymore. Like ther descendants today, they were greedy, selfish conservatives!

We didn’t need to Civil War. We should have let the south leave then. We sure don’t need them now.

Speaking of the south:

Vermont called healthiest state, Louisiana last

WASHINGTON (Reuters) — Louisiana has displaced Mississippi as the unhealthiest U.S. state and other Southern states were close rivals due to high obesity and smoking rates in new rankings that deemed Vermont the healthiest.

Many Southern states were clustered near the bottom of the rankings. The region has some of the highest rates of obesity, which contributes to heart disease, stroke, diabetes and some types of cancer, as well as high rates of smoking, which causes cancer, lung disease, heart disease and other problems.

One in five Louisianians lacked health insurance, while 31 percent were obese. It also suffers from high child poverty, infant mortality, premature death rate and cancer deaths, according to the report.

I shudder when I even think of visiting the southern US.
robert108

No. It doesn’t mean that at all…

Wrong again; that’s exactly what it means. Your economic ignorance is noted.
robert108

Like ther descendants today, they were greedy, selfish conservatives!

Wrong again! The South is the home of the modern Dem Party, including all their institutional racism and the KKK.

Louisiana has had generations of Dem rule, with the predictable consequences.
robert108

The term “free market” means “freedom of entry and exit”. The idiot doesn’t even know that simple truth.
pparets

Hahahahahahaha! True that!
pparets

dino wanders off the reservation again…

Can you imagine how the majority reacted to the idea of free slaves

From the signing of the Constitution right up to the Civil War, a majority of Americans opposed slavery.

And please spare us your self-congratulatory, elitist crap of this variety…

Idealistic people, those who seek improvement in the culture, are a smaller group. Not smarter, just more open to change, in some cases radical change. Changes that scare the majority.
HG

Arguably, there was only one war that America needed to fight for freedom and that’s the Revolutionary War.

“Arguably”? Yeah right. Your attempt at an answer here falls far from any credible standard. Some idiots argue the twin towers were an inside job, that doesn’t make it a credible or even a sensible argument. One thing here that isn’t arguable is that nobody with any credibility could take you seriously.
http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

Wow, all the lefties at the Daily Kooks and Huff Post are going to be mad at him.
robert108

That’s the foundation of conservatism- preservation of the status quo.

Another lie from you: conservatism is about the four freedoms: personal, economic, religious and political, all of which you lefties want to destroy to enable your totalitarian rule.
Silly rabbit.
ObamaisGOd

The Messiah is backing off his pledges faster than than a cat backs out of a room full of rocking chairs. ROFLMAO at Obamie’s Kool-aid drinkers who took the big swallow…..
Dino

I don’t want anyone dead. That’s your victimhood
status-seeking kicking into gear.
Dino

Yeah Mickry, the tens of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians are probably really glad. That’s like saying we should thank Osama bin Laden for taking down those towers because they were blocking out the light and needed remodeling anyway.

Iraq prior to the sanctions was a very westernized country in the Middle East. That’s why republicans used to like Saddam, he had hopes to make Iraq more like us. There were/are lots of middle-aged Iraqis who were edudacted in the states.

After a long war with Iran, a war with us and a decade of punishing sanctions, the place got a freaky and paranoid. Just look at how we got here after a simple thing like 9/11. Imagine decades of that lockdown paranoia. We, or lat least you the more fearful conservatives, would have killed each other off if forced to live under such circumstances.

So save the whole fairy tale about America the Liberator. It’s only a figment of your imagination.
di butler

Like I said to you before Dino, if you hate everyone here, and think we’re all so disgusting and beneath you, then why are you here? Nevermind, I don’t want to know. Just carry on with your deal.

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