Holocaust Denier Gets Jail Time

Too bad for David Irving that he isn’t Iranian – the mullahs might have made him president. Instead, the Austrian government is giving him a three-year sentence.

“I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz,” Irving told the court before his sentencing.

Not that I am at all sympathetic to the cause of holocaust denial – there is nothing more anti-semitic in my opinion – but there are a few things about this that trouble me.
First, as an American raised with reverence for the secular icon of the First Amendment, the idea of jailing someone for ideas, even deeply erroneous ideas, seems far worse than what the punishment purports to prevent. The way to combat odious ideas is with the truth and debate about the truth – not jail time. This article mentions that David Irving already gets fan mail – now the guy is a stinkin’ martyr, also.
Second, I read Irving’s book ‘Hitler’s War’ and I didn’t think it was all that controversial. It has been a while since I read it, but I recall that nowhere in the book did he claim the Holocaust did not happen. He claimed that Hitler didn’t authorize it or know about it. That is actually quite possible, since by the time the Holocaust got into full swing, Hitler had already begun his descent into clinical insanity, and spent all his time in the Wolfschanze pretending to be a great general, ordering divisions here and there, and paying zero attention to anything else that was going on in Germany. The impression I got was that Himmler was the main motivating force behind the Holocaust, and that while certainly Hitler could have cared less one way or the other how the Jews were treated, I see it as completely plausible that he could have been in the dark about it. And it makes Hitler no less responsible for the Holocaust.
If I am off-base on this, someone please correct me.

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  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Have you heard from Rob? Is his Dad doing alright?

    Rob’s dad is doing fine. The trip took a little longer than expected however, and Rob is currently catching up on some much needed shuteye.

  • http://www.kenmccracken.blogspot.com/ Ken McCracken

    I just wanted to say to Isirota that, unquestionably, Hitler was anti-semitic long before he took power, and yes I read Mein Kampf.

    I wasn’t questioning his anti-semitism – I was questioning whether he planned or authorized the Holocaust.  

     

  • abby

    I think that if that happened here, in the sunny, egalitarian US, irving would be entitled to voice his opinion–as long as it wasn’t inciting violence.  But again, Austria and Germany don’t have the same Constitution as the US; similarly, Japanese cannot go around making revisionist theories to crowds about WW II.  I suppose its an interesting question to ask whether germany and Austria as cultures would be different if they had a Constitution idenitical to America’s regarding free speech–or if their governmental process was more like the US (although I’m not sure if our current adminsitration is exactly applying "process" to our current governing).  But essentially, you can’t really impose strictly American vallues on the Austrians–well you can, Americans in their solipsism do it all the time and look at the Middle East mess we’re in–but in doing so, its missing some of the finer points of why Irving is getting persecuted based on the Austrian and German mentality  

  • isirota1965

    Respectfully, I disagree.  Read Mein Kampf.  Hitler was anti-Semitic for years before the Nazis ever took power.

  • C-Mom

    The Austrians and Germans take the Holocaust pretty seriously! I think they feel about Holocaust deniers the same way most Americans feel about people who are still in or support the KKK…Extremely embarrassed by them.They want to quash any sense of disrespect or upheaval over the atrocities that were commited there.

    Hitler was VERY anti-semitic long before he went nutty. 

     Yes, I think that free speach is one of our most precious rights, but in America ther are slander and libel laws… I think that this may be the German version of that.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    But essentially, you can’t really impose strictly American vallues on the Austrians–well you can, Americans in their solipsism do it all the time and look at the Middle East mess we’re in…

    A tacit admission that free speech and freedom are "strictly American values".

  • Zsa Zsa

    WILLisms.com turned 400,000 today! Have you heard from Rob? Is his Dad doing alright? One more thing! Is Jimma Carter a pathetic old has been that needs to shut his ugly mouth?

  • C-Mom

    Besides, only an idiot would deny the Holocaust. There’s plent of evidence, and it isn’t as if they had photoshop back then…

  • Zsa Zsa

    Ken,… You are on base. That is a bit extreme!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    I thought he might have taken his computer to the hospital?

    It’s a small computer hardwired into his brain.

    …seems that way at least.

  • Zsa Zsa

    Ken,… hitler was the one. No doubt in my mind. He had a strange ability to persuade people. What is crazy is how so many were murdered under his sick Rule! … Uh Ken? Where have you been?

  • abby

    It’s not a tacit admission, my friend.  An explicit one.  Because they are. I’m an American, and so believe free speech is very important (we wouldn’t be on this blog if its wasn’t).  But crack a few history books, check out international law, or for that matter, get on airplane, talk to some people around the world very different than you, and you’ll see that not everyone in the world holds that to be the most important thing on the block and, for that matter, expect their governments to squash it, rather than trumpet it.  It’s not a value judgement, just a collection of facts  

  • robert108

    After WWII, the Germans and Austrians have something to prove to the rest of the world, thus the laws against denying the Holocaust.  It makes sense to me.  This guy should have known better.

  • http://www.kenmccracken.blogspot.com/ Ken McCracken

    Been blogging from Connecticut Zsa Zsa!

    Am back now, will be helping Will this week.

  • Zsa Zsa

    likwidshoe,… Thanks! I hope Rob’s back is better too. I noticed he was bloggibg today. I thought he might have taken his computer to the hospital?

  • abby

    While the ruling may cause an American who respects First Amendment rights to pause, the law in Germany and Austria is explicit about denying the Holocaust.  it is a crime, and as loaded a cultural issue there as flag burning might be in the US.  Secondly, while Irving’s thesis in his book may have stopped short of totally exonerating Hitler from the genocide occuring under his rule, his rantings and ‘teachings’ during his time in Canada reveal the full depth of his anti-semitism and denial.  

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    It is a bit troublesome to me as well, Ken.  I, like you, think that everybody has a right to express themselves…however nutty their opinions are.

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