Say Anything Blog

This is a serious allegation, and I’m certain that the authors of the book wouldn’t have made it without some level of evidence to back up their claims.

Its amazing how you say this about Hillary, but with similar accusations about Bush you get defensive and demand proof.

Give me the name of a US Citizen, not engaged in support of/contact with terror organizations, that has been arrested and prosecuted under any provision of the Patriot Act.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

...now would be the time to get Hillary on record as to whether or not she ever actually did this.  And if she plans on listening to the private phone conversations of any of her political enemies during this campaign.

Rob,

You would ask this of the woman who directed White House doofus Craig Livingstone to collect the FBI files on over 900 political opponents, and expect from her a candid answer in return?

Surely you’re not serious!

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

I’m sure Hillary and Bill just considered it “wartime surveillance”.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Its amazing how you say this about Hillary, but with similar accusations about Bush you get defensive and demand proof.

The charge against Bush is that he took phone numbers from AQ terrorists and scowered the AT&T phone records to see who they called, some likely in the USA.  Tell me how Hillary’s alleged wiretapping saved lives. 

Your comparison is pale.

The charge against Bush is that he took phone numbers from AQ terrorists and scowered the AT&T phone records to see who they called, some likely in the USA.  Tell me how Hillary’s alleged wiretapping saved lives.

I’m not talking about wiretapping, just about any accusations of lawbreaking, such as the use of cocaine, or the drunk driving incident.  Those accusations are automatically viewed as false on this message board, while this accusation is automatically viewed as true.

Those accusations are automatically viewed as false on this message board, while this accusation is automatically viewed as true.

You’re right, Hawk, and there’s a very good reason for it: The respective characters of George Bush and Hillary Clinton.  We know this is right up Hillary’s alley, and we know that George Bush is a man of character.  Hillary doing this kind of thing is very believable, but the smears against the President are simply designed to foster hate for him, since the lefties lost two elections to him.  You lefties only respect elections when you win.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

The accusations that Hawk is trying to dredge up in defense of Hillary’s behavior occurred over 30 years ago… long before George Bush was a candidate for any public office.  And, of course, Mr. Bush will not be a candidate for office in the upcoming election.

Hillary on the other hand, is a declared candidate, and her sins are of a far, far more recent, and patently more dangerous nature.  Her actions as First Lady, an unelected and unofficial position, were well documented and could have easily merited legal sanction.  The charges of illegal wiretapping are particularly pertinent given Congressman Jim McDermott’s recent losses on appeal for essentially same offense.

Any attempted equivalence between Mr. Bush’s behavior as a young man, and Mrs. Clinton’s recent actions in furtherance of political objectives is nothing but delusional partisanship… especially from you, Hawk.  Purportedly, you know better.

Incidentally, those who admire the Clinton presidency would be ill-advised to raise accusations of cocaine abuse among their political opponents.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

we know that George Bush is a man of character.

I don’t know that, in fact I disagree. 

Hillary doing this kind of thing is very believable, but the smears against the President are simply designed to foster hate for him, since the lefties lost two elections to him.  You lefties only respect elections when you win.

You claim not to be a partisan, but you will believe any accusation against a democrat and refuse to believe any accusation against a republican.  You are the most partisan person on this board. 

Hillary on the other hand, is a declared candidate, and her sins are of a far, far more recent, and patently more dangerous nature.

You’re right.  Her alleged wiretapping is far more serious than the use of the Justice Department to try to fix elections, or the ill-conceived and mismanaged war or the illegal NSA wiretapping program or the fixing of intelligence to go to war.  Whatever.

The respective characters of George Bush and Hillary Clinton.

to Hawk and Rob108:
Somewhat disagree.  I fully believe Bush could have used cocaine or been drunk at some point as well as Clinton wiretapping. 

My bias is that I don’t think he would do it now while I do think Mrs. Clinton would wiretap for political reasons now. 

Rob did a fair job of reporting I think. 

This is a serious allegation, and I’m certain that the authors of the book wouldn’t have made it without some level of evidence to back up their claims.  One would hope, anyway.

Wait a minute!  It’s Friday!  There had to be pictures of some cute women related to this story somewhere!  Court reporters. . . parallegals. . . something. . .

Wiretapping, it could be a picture of a woman using a phone!  I’m easy.

Hawk:

Her alleged wiretapping is far more serious than the use of the Justice Department to try to fix elections,

You forgot the use of the FBI to blow up the WTC.  If you’re going to go into leftard fantasy land, you should at least have the guts to admit you’re a Truther.

Hawk,

I sincerely hope that as an attorney, as you purport to be, you are considerably more capable than you are at sarcasm, as witness your remarks here.

Your contempt for Mr. Bush is already well established.  You only diminish your own reputation and that of your cause by sinking to the inane level of the “late” Cindy Sheehan.  At least she was fun to laugh at.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

You are the most partisan person on this
board.

An obviously self-protecting lie.  Pretty much like Jimmy Carter calling anyone else “the worst President ever”, when that title belongs to him and him alone.
You and Jimmy; birds of a feather.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

You are the most partisan person on this
board.

R108,

Like AlGore on December 12, 2000, I’m disheartened by the decision, nonetheless, let me be the first to offer my congratulations!  Well Done!!!

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Bat: So now we have the leftie definition of “partisan”: Someone who stands up for the truth, no matter who says it.  Brilliant.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Hawk:

but with similar accusations about Bush you get defensive and demand proof.

Right.  Because recording the private phone calls of your political enemies is the exact same thing as creating a database of domestic call data for the purposes of national security.

If you’re going to go into leftard fantasy land, you should at least have the guts to admit you’re a Truther.

Funniest comment I’ve read all day.

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Hawk’s reaction to the report that HC engaged in illegal wiretapping is to complain that the reaction of conservatives on this blog is somewhat hypocritical.  Never mind that if true, HC’s hypocrisy apparently knows no bounds.

And talking about the hypocrisy of jumping to illegal conclusions about political foes:

Her alleged wiretapping is far more serious than the use of the Justice Department to try to fix elections, or the ill-conceived and mismanaged war or the illegal NSA wiretapping program or the fixing of intelligence to go to war.

  For which there is absolutely no credible evidence, only the musings of the fringe left; not to mention the NSA wiretapping is absolutely legal.  While HC’s record is quite telling, as Bat One pointed out earlier, “You would ask this of the woman who directed White House doofus Craig Livingstone to collect the FBI files on over 900 political opponents.”

For which there is absolutely no credible evidence, only the musings of the fringe left; not to mention the NSA wiretapping is absolutely legal.

Strange how Timmy Griffin the US attorney of Arkansas resigns the same day that Senator Conyers gets the caging list that he e-mailed to the wrong people.  These list show a concerted effort to target the votes of African American soldiers deployed in Iraq.  That is a felony.

2h9

Give me the name of a US Citizen, not engaged in support of/contact with terror organizations, that has been arrested and prosecuted under any provision of the Patriot Act.

unreasonable request. gag orders go with all that stuff.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

OK, give us a list of cases of American citizens arrested and prosecuted under any provision of the Patriot Act.

And spare me the gag order meme. Never been a gag order issued a Democrat will not violate.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Hawk:

Strange how Timmy Griffin the US attorney of Arkansas resigns the same day that Senator Conyers gets the caging list that he e-mailed to the wrong people.  These list show a concerted effort to target the votes of African American soldiers deployed in Iraq.  That is a felony.

This is one of those stories that gets better with each telling.  And of course, like any other urban legend that is hateful towards Bush or Rove, Hawk falls for it.

The truth is that it is very likely that the Republican Party, like the Democratic one, spent plenty of energy in the 2004 election trying to identify illegal voters belonging to demographics that would hurt their candidate.

If a person listed and address that can be identified with another more recent occupant (via public records such as phone books), one can rightfully infer that this person’s listed address is invalid.  You can test this inference by sending registered mail to that addressed, to the person who you suspect has the wrong address.  A “caging list” is nothing more than a list of people who failed to sign for the registered letter.  In direct mail marketing, caging lists are used to cleanse the mailing list of invalid recipients.

Both the Republicans and Democrats carry lists of potentially illegal voters into voting precincts and, having a legal right to challenge the legitimacy of any any potential voter, can legally use these lists to preferentially stop illegal votes that would harm their candidates.  It’s not either parties responsibility to watch the other parties back.  That’s why it’s called an “adversarial system”

Describing it as “voter suppression” is nothing more that sh*t for brains leftie propaganda.  What it amounts to is a form of challenge of voters based upon their registered address, which not only is not a felony, it is codified in our law.

And of course, Hawk, by repeating an urban legend gets probably 15% of the facts right at most.  The list, as reported by the BBC, was mostly African Americans, but that is because it targeted inner city people living in lower income brackets—that is voting robots for the Democratic machinery.  The fact that the majority of these people are black or that some (not most as Hawk claims) were veterans, is irrelevant.  Indeed it wasn’t tested using the mailing lists, and in fact that information would not have been accessible from public records to start with. 

It is also unlikely that the Democrats given just the list could have readily identified the race of the individuals.  My guess is they didn’t try, they just looked at the demographics of the addresses and assumed the race.

If a person can’t establish that they may legitimately vote in that voter precinct, there is a remedy of course called “provisional ballets”.  Leftards counter that these are more likely to not get counted.

Duh. Of course.  That’s because if the validity of the voter can’t be established, his vote doesn’t count.  Otherwise, they get treated just like any other ballot.  (Except in circumstances where they won’t influence the outcome of an election, in some states.)

“Voter suppression” is just lefitie code language for “stopping our fraudulent votes”

The alleged caging list is publicly assessable by the way.  I’m sure Conyers getting the list emailed (he’s apparently to f**king stupid to click a link himself) has little to do with Griffin’s planned resignation from his interim appointment. 

On the other hand, every time Conyers speaks or makes a public appearance, he always makes himself and the Democratic Party look like blithering idiots.  So perhaps this is yet another Rovian plot?!

Of course it’s a Rovian plot.  Conyers has been on the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy payroll for years now.

Are you not getting your memos, Carrick?

The purpose of government shouldn’t be to do good, but simply to refrain from doing evil.

Strange how a significant number of the people on the list were African American soldiers deployed to Iraq, who couldn’t answer the mail, so their vote was not counted without them ever knowing. 

Its only publicly available because Tim Griffin mailed the list to RNC.com instead of RNC.org.  RNC.com is a parody site who gave the list to Greg Palast of the BBC. 

Greg Palast has approximately 500 e-mails, so you don’t know what else he gave to Conyers.  BTW these are some of the e-mails that the White House said are lost.  They were using the RNC e-mail to avoid the Presidential Records Act.  But we know that this administration doesn’t have any respect for that law because Cheney just had the Secret Service destroy the sign in logs to the Naval Observatory where he lives.

If everything is so innocent why did Timothy Griffin resign.  Did he finally realize that he wasn’t qualified for the job?

BTW I never said most of the people were soldiers, just that they were targeted.  How can you sign for a letter that says do not forward when you are deployed to Iraq.

Strange, hawkie does not have a problem with the Democrat Party sending teams of lawyers, led proudly in 2000 by Edward"DaThug” Rendell, to suppress absentee ballots from overseas stationed soldiers. Not minority soldiers, ALL sodliers. Their publicly stated justification being that soldiers are biased and vote predominately Republican. But that is OK, because hawkie and his pimps in the Democrat Party do not give a fuk about America or our soldiers.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Hawk:

Strange how a significant number of the people on the list were African American soldiers deployed to Iraq,

In your original statement, it was “a concerted effort to target African American soldiers” .  Why did you change your story?  How many of the black soldiers were prevented from voting in any case?  For that matter, how many of the 1800 individuals were forced to file provisional ballets?

You also demonstrate an ignorance of how caging lists get generated.  They use publicly available information such as phone directories to identify individuals from “undesirable voting precincts” who do not appear to have legitimate registered voting addresses.  Whether the person is black or white is not a factor in the determination of who to select for challenging.Hawk:

Strange how a significant number of the people on the list were African American soldiers deployed to Iraq,

In your original statement, it was “a concerted effort to target African American soldiers” .  Why did you change your story?  How many of the black soldiers were prevented from voting in any case?  For that matter, how many of the 1800 individuals were forced to file provisional ballets?

Hawk:

Its only publicly available because Tim Griffin mailed the list to RNC.com instead of RNC.org.  RNC.com is a parody site who gave the list to Greg Palast of the BBC. 

This is similar to what happened with the parody site GeorgeWBush.org.  They had their mailer configured to dump all bad email into the same pile:

OCTOBER, 2004: Recently, we at GeorgeWBush.org happened to notice that our mail server had a default “catch-all” mailbox, which for the past several months had been quietly gathering any and all e-mails addressed to [INSERT-ANYTHING-HERE]@georgewbush.org. We felt the need to share.

These have been available since October 2004.  Including the caging list.

Hawk:

Greg Palast has approximately 500 e-mails, so you don’t know what else he gave to Conyers.

BFD. Palast is an ultraliberal Bush hater, who as you said is with the BBC.  Had anything significant been there, are you really daft enough to think it would not already be in the press???

If everything is so innocent why did Timothy Griffin resign.

He was an interim appointment.  After the mishandling of the DA dismissals,  and his personal association with Karl Rove, he had a 0% chance of being confirmed, and had been planning on resigning for sometime.  BTW he was not with the Justice Department when he was serving on the Florida RNC committee.

Hawk:

BTW I never said most of the people were soldiers, just that they were targeted.  How can you sign for a letter that says do not forward when you are deployed to Iraq.

Nice attempt to weasel yourself out of your original statement:

hese list show a concerted effort to target the votes of African American soldiers deployed in Iraq.

What is the implication of this statement, if not most (or even all?)

You also demonstrate an ignorance of how caging lists get generated.  They use publicly available information such as phone directories to identify individuals from “undesirable voting precincts” who do not appear to have legitimate registered voting addresses.  Whether the person is black or white is not a factor in the determination of who to select for challenging.

That’s a great point, 2Hotel9. The Democrats deliberately target US soldiers and that’s OK.

The Republicans incidentally target soldiers (and blacks for that matter) in the process of targeting precincts that are heavily Democrat voting.  And Hawk and the rest of the Democrats are all over them for it.

Nothing like the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

It lingers into the evening as well.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem