Hey, Barack! It’s the Economy, Stupid!

• March 5, 2008

From The Economist, taking Barack Obama, and also Hillary Clinton, to task for their silly, radical economic populism:

FOR a man who has placed “hope” at the centre of his campaign, Barack Obama can sound pretty darned depressing. As the battle for the Democratic nomination reaches a climax in Texas and Ohio, the front-runner’s speeches have begun to paint a world in which laid-off parents compete with their children for minimum-wage jobs while corporate fat-cats mis-sell dodgy mortgages and ship jobs off to Mexico…
There is no denying that for some middle-class Americans, the past few years have indeed been a struggle. What is missing from Mr Obama’s speeches is any hint that this is not the whole story: that globalisation brings down prices and increases consumer choice; that unemployment is low by historical standards; that American companies are still the world’s most dynamic and creative; and that Americans still, on the whole, live lives of astonishing affluence…
The sad thing is that one might reasonably have expected better from Mr Obama. He wants to improve America’s international reputation yet campaigns against NAFTA. He trumpets “the audacity of hope” yet proposes more government intervention. He might have chosen to use his silver tongue to address America’s problems in imaginative ways—for example, by making the case for reforming the distorting tax code. Instead, he wants to throw money at social problems and slap more taxes on the rich, and he is using his oratorical powers to prey on people’s fears.
Mr Obama advertises himself as something fresh, hopeful and new. But on economic matters at least he, like Mrs Clinton, has begun to look a rather ordinary old-style Democrat.

Obama may have some “sound, academic economists advising him” but I’m beginning to sense that they are on staff more for the cover they provide than for the advice they provide. On his own, Barack Obama is far more radical in his economic… and foreign policy… thinking than anything his “sound” advisors would suggest.

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http://Array carrick

Mr Obama advertises himself as something fresh, hopeful and new. But on economic matters at least he, like Mrs Clinton, has begun to look a rather ordinary old-style Democrat.

Um “begun to look”???

Obama is nothing more than a staid socialist running on 19th century theories of class conflict. His new ideas are nothing more than old one with new gift wrap.

Mark D:

The subprime problem is contained.
The economy is robust.
Housing will come back this spring.

Which of these is false? You’ve been saying for seven years how bad it is here, but for most of that time, our economy has been performing very robustly, and over time the things you bitch about, which is all you do, have simply changed to cherry pick the weakest spots in the economy at any one time.

People like you suck.
carrick

Mark D:

this economy that you refer to as robust was built on credit. Now the bill is in the mailbox.

Individuals don’t save as much, because they don’t live hand-to-mouth as they once did. Nowadays, we can absorb car repairs etc into our monthly budget without even having to plan for it.

Corporations savings on the other hand, are at a record high.

the typical American corporation has increased its savings so sharply that it probably has enough cash on hand to completely pay off its debts.

This certainly belies your “the bill is in the mail” nonsense.
robert108

….that also means that this years deficit will not be $400+ billion (the unified budget)but more like $700+ billion….

Ooooh, scary! At least until you look at the fact that our GDP is almost 14 trillion, which makes it a whopping 5% of our GDP. That’s a pretty good return on investment. Any time you can invest 700 billion and get 14 trillion in return, take it!
You also keep jumping back and forth between the national debt and the yearly deficit. Shame on you!
Mark D

r108

The Bush administration increased both social and entitlement spending

Damn……now who do I vote for…. I thought I would be safe voting for a republican, but now ya tell me that not only do they increase defense spendin, but also spendin on that social crap.
Mark D

The subprime problem is contained.
The economy is robust.
Housing will come back this spring.
Who’s the liar.

Why won’t dubya cut taxes……ya know, to boost the economy.
Let’s hope the arabs and chinese buy into our banks and corporations and give them the needed capital so they won’t go belly up.
http://rotstar.blogspot.com/ LifeTrek

Mark D said:

At least clinton(sic) had a budget surplus.

It never ceases to amaze me how little people really know about the workings of the government or how often myths and spin are continually repeated to support one’s position.

Clinton never had a budget surplus — there was never a paydown of the national debt as would happen with a surplus. He did at one time have a projected budget surplus (*see below) based on the projected continuation of the dot com surge but that had already been eliminated in the year 2000 when the bubble burst and Clinton had a $133 billion annual deficit.

In addition Clinton never actually had a balanced budget coming about $18 billion short.

Now, exactly how did he even come this close? Well his cuts were primarily in defense spending that the Joint Chiefs were warning might leave us short should we actually need to use the military.

In addition the dot com bubble caused quite a healthy surge in the Social Security Trust Fund. Those funds, by law, can only be and have to be invested in special government bonds (they did pay the fund a respectable 5.5% in 2005). Clinton spent the Social Security Trust Fund money, as any politician would (*)and reflected these funds in his “projected” surplus. But it sure makes a nice talking point doesn’t it?

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus.
DKK
Mark D

Yes hoss….corp tax receipts were up….but due to consumer spending from easy credit and the housing bubble……homeowner ATM’s

From the WSJ: Building Slowdown Goes Commercial. A few excerpts:
In the past few years, builders aggressively put up stores and strip malls amid easy financing and resilient consumer spending. Spending on construction of shopping centers leapt 67% in 2007 from 2005 levels.

Last year, developers built 144 million square feet of retail projects in the top 54 U.S. markets and are slated to build another 131 million square feet this year, according to Property & Portfolio Research Inc., a Boston research company. Property & Portfolio Research calculates that demand justified 36% of the new space built last year and will support 15.7% of the space slated to be completed this year.

A sign that construction is about to cool off, perhaps sharply: The American Institute of Architects’ monthly index of billings at architecture firms was down 14% in January from its peak in July. That means fewer construction projects will start this year, said AIA Chief Economist Kermit Baker.

With the American consumer tapped out…what will keep the corporations going?
How will corp tax receipts rank this year and next?
Like Citi…..CFC….intel…GM…ambac…etc.
robert108

They have done such a good job the past 7 years.

We have, of course, but we could have done better if we hadn’t spent like Dems. At least we didn’t tax the economy to death, so we have still had good economic growth.
robert108

Increase spending (only for wars and defense contracts)

Gosh, another leftie lie! The Bush administration increased both social and entitlement spending, although not as much as the Dems want to do.
Govt spending on national defense is one of the few legitimate areas in which the govt should be spending.
Mark D

lifetrek
Your absolutely right about the surplus. The figures the WH issues to the MSM is the “Unified Budget” which excludes money we borrow from ourselves. The last time the national debt was paid down was 1959.

BUT…..that also means that this years deficit will not be $400+ billion (the unified budget)but more like $700+ billion….a lot harder for US citizens to handle.
robert108

But do they rely on consumers as our economy does?

Actually, our economy is built upon investment and reinvestment. How is Barack going to help that with his tax and spending increases?
DBO

My point was not if there is or is not a problem with our current economy, but rather that the arguement is always the same. And once again, we have moved from discussing what Barack’s specific plans are to debating whether we are in fact on the brink of a recession.

So… to answer the question of “fix what,” here goes…
How about we start with the STEALING of my tax dollars to pay for health care, education, etc for people who are breaking the law by being here?

Or maybe the social programs that are killing us. (We spend more on social programs than the war, yet the MSM doesn’t feel the need to discuss the growing epidemic of entitlement.)
I am a mother of four (yes, four) and it costs a lot to raise kids. However, I made that choice and would NEVER ask for the government (which is code for you all, the taxpayers) to step in and help me raise them. It is my responsibility. It infuriates me that I am expected to pay for someone to sit home, raise babies and take money out of my paycheck. (They should not have had the children if they could not afford to do so. I mean… we all had sex ed. We know what causes that now.) In the meantime I am sacrificing time away from my children so that I can adequately provide for my family. But please … tell me again how I fall in to the “rich” bracket as you take more and more of my paycheck to provide for the deadbeats.

Sorry… fell into just a bit of a rant.
DBO

You guys have gotten so far off topic, which I think is an effective strategy the Obama camp employs. Change the subject to GW … then we won’t have to answer the hard questions.

I heard this morning that the Obama campaign tells its people that they are not to talk about policy, but rather how they feel about Barack. How they feel that we could be electing the first black president. Gag. Enough hippy crap. We need to know what Obama’s SPECIFIC plans are. Enough of talking down about our current situation. What are your plans to fix it?
robert108

…but now ya tell me that not only do they increase defense spendin, but also spendin on that social crap.

As contrasted with the Dems(including Barack, the subject of this thread), who stifle the economy with tax rate increases, waste our money with useless social spending, and weakens us to enemy attack by gutting the military and promising to cut and run from our enemies.
Not a hard decision, really, since electing a conservative would make the country safer, get out of the way of economic growth, and cut wasteful social spending.
Bat One

Actually, those on the Left who decry Federal increases in federal spending don’t have much credibility on the issue, considering the increased spending and taxation planned by the Democrats. Kinda like listening to a drunk railing on about the evils of alcohol.

Besides, who needs the hypocritical rantings of a disingenuous Democrat, when conservatives have been bemoaning GOP spending policies in Washington for years? When Democrats start talking seriously about cutting federal spending and growing the nation’s economy instead of taxing and regulating it into oblivion, then, maybe, they’ll be entitled to be taken seriously.

In the meantime, perhaps those on the Left should consider their own “chickenhawk” argument when discussions turn to fiscal policy and the economy. When y’all can show that you’ve actually done something to address the problem, THEN you’ll be listened to.
Mark D

bat

Every economy in the world is built on credit

But do they rely on consumers as our economy does?
I think not.
Inflation is gonna bite us in the ass for all the years of credit creation during these so called robust years.
robert108

Of course, leave it to a lying leftie to ‘jack this thread away from Barack’s economic ignorance to bring up the President’s Dem-style spending…
Mark D

LOL

Balancing the budget on the false basis of a dot.com bubble

At least clinton had a budget surplus….dingle balls can’t even do that after creating the largest housing bubble in history.
Oh wait…..that’s right he blew the $$$ on a couple of useless wars.
Bat One

this economy that you refer to as robust was built on credit.

Every economy in the world is built on credit… and has been for hundreds, if not thousands of years. The early American colonists used Warehouse Receipts in place of currency. Shakespeare’s The Merchant of Venice also comes readily to some minds.

Higher taxes and increased federal spending as advocated by Democrats certainly isn’t going to improve the credit markets.

Duh!
Mark D

Are Barack’s proposed tax and spending increases going to address that problem?

Who cares…..I’m voting for a republican. They have done such a good job the past 7 years. $3.5 trillion added for future tax payers to pay for…..the world loves us sooooooo much. 2 wars we can’t get out of….shall I go on…
Mark D

r108
I think he should do like dubya did……tax cuts, increase spending and let the next pres worry about it.
andydakota

Robert, how is Dubya paying for the war? Our American Express?
robert108

Unfortunately now we must pay for their drunkin sailor spending.

There you go again, with your leftie lying.

The real drunken sailor spending is The War on Poverty: Trillions of dollars spent, no reduction in poverty to show for it, and it’s still alive and wasting our money. Balancing the budget on the false basis of a dot.com bubble while gutting our national defense and intel, which enabled 9/11, is not fiscal responsibility. We shouldn’t spend like Dems; it’s bad for the economy and bad for the country.
Mark D

How are we paying for the Two-Thirds of our budget that goes to social spending and entitlements?

the same place we found the money for our useless wars……..the printing press and deficit spending.
robert108

Now the bill is in the mailbox.

How’s Barack going to pay the “bill”? Is he going to raise taxes to stifle economic growth, while confiscating money from the productive sector to use it for wasteful social and entitlement spending?
robert108

At least clinton had a budget surplus….

Built on gutting our national defense capabilities.
http://rotstar.blogspot.com/ LifeTrek

lifetrek
Your absolutely right about the surplus.

Well now that we got that myth out of the way,

Oh wait…..that’s right he blew the $$$ on a couple of useless wars.

can you have the intellectual honesty to admit that neither you nor I can determine the long term value of any portion of the war on terror today?
DKK
robert108

Robert, how is Dubya paying for the war? Our American Express?

How are we paying for the Two-Thirds of our budget that goes to social spending and entitlements?
robert108

Heard a soundbite from Barack last night in which he made the statement: “The economy is in a shambles.” He just doesn’t know what he’s talking about, or he is just another leftie liar for political gain.
robert108

Why so many layoffs if they have so much cash?

Are Barack’s proposed tax and spending increases going to address that problem?
robert108

A recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth, and we have yet to have one month of negative growth, so the lefties praying for economic disaster are the liars.
Thus proving, once again, that what’s bad for this country is good for the lefties.
Hoss

wars we can’t get out of….shall I go on…

But, your newly minted Democrat Congress promised they would get us out of those messes, so yes, please go on….
David Spells

Here’s the deal:President Obama is the only president who actually is really trying to do something and all of his critics are racist idiots or sellout negroes!
Mark D

Still got your head up your ass, hey r108…….
republicans created this economic time bomb with low interest rates, easy credit, and massive unfunded spending. You have no one to blame but your party.
Unfortunately now we must pay for their drunkin sailor spending.
Mark D

carrick

the typical American corporation has increased its savings so sharply that it probably has enough cash on hand to completely pay off its debts.

That’s good……now they won’t have to borrow so much from the commies and terrorists.
Why so many layoffs if they have so much cash?
Mark D

DBO
Fix what? the economy is robust. Isn’t it?
robert108

this economy that you refer to as robust was built on credit. Now the bill is in the mailbox.

What is Barack proposing to do about this “problem”?
Hoss

this economy that you refer to as robust was built on credit. Now the bill is in the mailbox.

Either that or record tax receipts that was helped along by that remarkably under-reported flatlined unemployment. Yes, let’s please cut all credit for anyone, hate to have all that money floating around to spurr innovation and entrepreunerialship (so much for a rising tide lifts all boats). Maybe if Bushie guts the Department of Education and a select other few wastes we can help shore up the budget like Clinton did with the military (that and turning a blind eye to rampant corporate malfeasance…love that cooked books economy).

But, I’ll grant you, spending rates have increased criminally, shame on the Republicans, seriously. So, let’s get to cutting budgets to reach some equilibrium.
Mark D

carrick
this economy that you refer to as robust was built on credit. Now the bill is in the mailbox.
Mark D

Bat
That is why I’m voting republican.
Cut taxes
deficit spending
Increase spending (only for wars and defense contracts)
and then I will complain about the reckless spending 7 years down the road.
robert108

With the American consumer tapped out…what will keep the corporations going?

The same thing that created them in the first place; productivity. Your lie is that the American consumer is “tapped out”. Our GDP is still growing, despite your propaganda-dispensing MSM’s lies about it.

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