Harry Reid: Voting Against Health Care Debate Is “Orwellian”

He’s casting this as though a vote against beginning official debate in the Senate (invoking cloture) would somehow be a vote against debating the health care bill in general. Like maybe if this bill doesn’t get cloture suddenly all the liberals will be silenced.
That’s not so. They can still talk about it. It just won’t be advancing in the Senate.

“Now he said, anyone who votes for this is going to have a lot of explaining to do,” Reid said during his floor speech today. “Now that is really Orwellian. That is Orwellian. Have a lot of explaing to do if they allow a debate to continue?” …
“All were asking today is to have a debate on it. I mean, why would anyone be afraid in supposedly the greatest debating society in the world
to debate healthcare,” he said. “What are they afraid of?”
Reid may have aimed his remarks at the two remaining Democratic holdouts on the motion that needs 60 votes to pass.

Voting to advance this bill is a vote to say that the bill, though maybe flawed in some ways, is fundamentally sound. Opponents of the bill would argue that you can make health care more efficient and cheaper by expanding government control. Opponents argue that health care reform must expand choice by getting the government out of the way.
Since this bill is, at its core, a government take over of health care there really is no reason for opponents to even allow the beginning of an official Senate debate about it.
Remember, a vote to advance this bill in the Senate is as bad as a vote to make it law. Senators should be held accountable by that standard.

Tags: , ,


«
»
  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Off the top of my head, lock-me-up, I can’t remember B1′s branch of service. But since you have no actual point and your argument hinges on whether or not B1 served, you are a colossal failure. Stick to your talking points, progressieve twit. Your attempts at original thought and argument suck the big one.
    STFU? Practice what you preach, moron.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    “relative newbies, and smarmy leftist fools”

    RN/SLF means fine smackdown!

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    I asked if you are a Marine, because of your avatar. If you were not a Marine, I would have had some comments for you.

    Sorry that anyone implied anything negative to the armed forces. I didn’t ask if you used to be a Marine, for the very reason you stated.

    I do think you were a little flip to claim that just because someone votes as a liberal, they can be an ex-marine. I know that you sometimes have to go along to get along, but I think you should rethink you statement.

    You are an American, then a Marine, then a conservative. You may insert other things like Dad, Christian, or Friend in-between these, but that order should not change.

    Thanks for your service, from an America loving & freedom loving liberal honorably discharged national Guard member who spent time with Regular Army units in 3 foreign countries.

  • lock’em’up

    Eloquent. But, are you a Marine?

  • sayanything-287

    In response to Bat’s original admonishment that I was too broadbushed, I was amplifying the point about how some Marines may commit acts that would not allow them to normally fall under the category, “Once Marine, always a Marine,” if they dishonor that name. Yet, in a crisis, in the field of battle or not, we normally, not wholly without thinking, we would rush in to cover the back of another Marine. In such a format as a blog I cannot possible cover every possible situation just to satisfy some nit picking by some anti-military twit!

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    Are you a Marine, Neiman?

  • sayanything-2

    “Harry Reid: Voting Against Health Care Debate Is “Orwellian”

    What an anti-American piece of sh*t.

  • sayanything-287

    YES! Vietnam Veteran, but there is no such thing as an ex-Marine, I am a former serving Marine now inactive.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    So, is there a time limit on replying to internet twits before they jump to conclusions?

  • sayanything-287

    If you knew how to read, which you do not, I said essentially everything you said here, I only asked what Dino had done himself after his attacks on the military, as compared to those that have paid high prices for his liberty. It was to point out a difference between those who take action and those that can only shoot off their mouths.

    Other than initially mentioning my service, I never claimed I was anything special or deserved anyone’s thanks or that anyone was inferior to me, I was only and always talking about the military generally. You did not get one fact right, not one, but if you had read all my comments, if you could read, you would know that I said the people in the military, not mentioning me or the marines in those comments, who made those sacrifices for everyone else, even those they disagreed with or felt were their enemies.

    You are angry and spilling nonsensical venom because others challenged you and because I defended the MILITARY from Dino’s attacks. You have not spoken one word of truth above and you have no facts in your support. You cannot go back and find any self-centered comments on my part or anything like you have falsely charged. All day here you have gotten your butt handed to you by others and you took occasion to make yourself feel good by attacking me, which is okay, if it were not for the fact you did not get one thing right in your tirade. I dare you to go back and quote to me one time other than my originally acknowledging my Marine service that I was ever self-centered in any of my comments.

    Try a remedial reading course and then get your facts straight and then go ahead and attack me, otherwise you are just making a fool out of yourself.

  • sayanything-287

    I have gotten to know Bat’s character somewhat here at SAB and I have become defensive on his behalf when someone makes an idiotic statement like accusing him of being seditious. Without even going into why you think that might be so, I am confident you are absolutely wrong!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Not sure why my attempt to make you look less foolish than you actually are should get your panties in such a twist, but continue to make any stupid assumptions you like.
    What’s that sound? Oh, yeah! Your credibility hitting the floor!

  • sayanything-203

    I Don’t, Lock ‘em,

    My service in Vietnam was voluntary… Danang… 1966-1967 and 1968-1969. And, Yes, I have the DD-214 to prove it.

    I don’t recall that I have ever written anything that could be construed as painting myself a hero, though I have always maintained that those who have served in the military, in any branch, are entitled to a certain level of respect beyond that afforded those who haven’t. And that is particularly true for those who have sacrificed more than just a few years of their time.

    If the two of you weren’t such relative newbies, and smarmy leftist fools besides, you would know that Neiman and his family have sacrificed a great deal in defense of this country… far more than either of you could hope to offer. Acknowledging such sacrifice is apparently also beyond the cognitive impulses of either of you.

    Fact is, if you knew what you were talking about, you’d have long ago realized that most veterans, and especially those who have actually seen combat, are very reluctant to talk about it. Most other Vietnam vets I know will discuss their experiences only with someone else who was there, even a stranger, while shutting out even their closest family and friends who do not share that bond.

    I Don’t Like’s remarks above are nothing more than adolescent drivel. In the arena of ideas, he’s left (pun intended) to sweep the floors, take out the refuse, and dream of one day growing up to be a gladiator. He is an intellectual ectomorph with delusions of someday, maybe, being able to lift a shield and carry a real sword. But like most good, little leftists, in the end he has nothing more to offer than an occasional whiny insult. His armor is his insolence.

    Let ‘em’s use of the word “seditious” is really no more serious. He too relies on personal insult to cover the fact that he has nothing of substance to say. Unable to defend the actions of their ideological commissars, such as Reid, Pelosi, and Obama, unable to authoritatively document the fraudulent claims of Left, he too tries to change the subject and attack the messenger. No doubt someone somewhere takes the apparatchiks at the Southern Poverty Law Center seriously. Perhaps the folks at the Soros Open Society Initiative or the Tides Foundation, the ones who write the tax deductible checks do. But its doubtful that anyone else much gives a sh*t. The personal liberties guaranteed by the Bill of Rights are universal… not ideologically means-tested. Sorry!

  • sayanything-2

    So, according to you the American people are whackos. Who said that for 70 years? Who locked up anyone who disagreed with the “State”? Thats right, you leftists. Keep screeching, liar, we will keep laughing.

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    afternoon cupcake kenny,

    Not that I really care about your opinions since you are such a minor player on this blog, but I’m curious.

    What did I classify as “unintelligent”?

  • sayanything-287

    Is that sort of like being a recovering alcoholic?

    Why are you slamming the Marine Corps? Are you an anti-military liberal or just hate Marines?

    By the way you can highlight the quotes of others by placing this < before the word "blockquote" (no quotation marks) then at the end of the word another >, with no spaces. Then at the end of the actual quotation, using the same word blockquote, put a . See your quote above!

  • sayanything-106

    I agree Rob Rugby read is a disgrace.

  • sayanything-203

    Correction:

    There is such a thing as an ex-Marine. One such thankfully rare animal is a Democrat congressman from Pennsylvania’s 12th District, and is third in the Democrats’ House leadership behind Pelosi and Hoyer. His name is Jack Murtha… also known as the “King of Earmarks.”

    His service in Vietnam was honorable and perhaps even heroic, but he is most assuredly an ex-Marine.

  • sayanything-287

    I modified my statement not because Murtha votes liberal and I do seriously honor his Marine service in Nam and beyond, I have defended him often when others dimoss that courageous service to America. I agreed that I was too broad because Murtha accused Marines in Haditha, Irag of being guilty of War Crimes before the evidence was in and they were convicted. It seems it was because of his political career, he was trying to be either Speaker or the number two in the House and I think his accusations were politically motivated and dishonored these Marines without a trial.

    Let me explain something about the Corps and what a special fraternity it is; if any Marine ever got in a jam, even in civilian clothes and really old like me, and he needed help and yelled out “hey Marines,” every Marine, active service or not, within the sound of his voice would answer the call and defend him with their lives.

    Murtha did not answer that call in this case and never apologized, even though to the best of my recollection out of the eight Marines charged, five either had all charges dismissed or were exonerated and three are in legal limbo, but it appears none will be convicted of the original charges.

    Plus, on occasion a Marine has actually committed crimes in theater of some kind and some not in theater have, in which cases many of them could be said to be ex-Marines, although the same call for help in a jam would probably be answered without questioning his credentials. We really, deeply, unto death believe in duty, honor, country.

    Your apology/explanation is gratefully accepted!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Maybe we could call you guys progressieves, since your arguments don’t hold water?

  • lock’em’up

    What!

    Randy-G didn’t register for the selective service? That’s against the law. Turn yourself in, my misguided brother.

    That’s not only an insult to those who have served, like Nieman, but to all American men who did their minimal duty of walking into a post office and signing their name.

    yet another example of a right-winger talking the talk, but not walking the walk.

  • lock’em’up

    Militia movement resurfaces across nation
    The Associated Press – Rachel D’Oro – ‎Nov 20, 2009‎
    At least 50 new right-wing militia groups have been identified by the Montgomery, Ala.-based Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Who’s driving these whackos? You are. Well, not you, but the more eloquent and influential right wingers here and across the nation.

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    Cons don’t want debate. They want to silence dissent so there loud and prolific lies can go largely unchallenged, even though they are a small minority. Reminds me of South Africa a few years ago.

  • lock’em’up

    Beck? I’m talking about the meetings that you right wingers have. Where you all get together and talk about how to demonize the President, all progressives, and all progressive ideas.

    Lie, yell, repeat till the minority takes control of the majority. That’s the plan.

    Don’t tell me you don’t have meetings. The Herald has covered some. Some are carried out on the airwaves, some on right wing blogs. Why else would all of you right-wingers get together. You never really disagree, you just share right-wing “thoughts”. It’s all about re-education of the weak minded and continuous deepening of right-wing ideological beliefs.

  • sayanything-352

    Plus, on occasion a Marine has actually committed crimes in theater of some kind and some not in theater have, in which cases many of them could be said to be ex-Marines, although the same call for help in a jam would probably be answered without questioning his credentials. We really, deeply, unto death believe in duty, honor, country.

    You want to reconcile those two sentences for me? What on earth does the latter have to do with the former?

    You mean to tell me if you’re walking down the street, pass a bar, some yahoo inside (marine or otherwise, how are you going to know?) is getting his ass kicked (perhaps deservedly so), yells out, “Hey, Marines,” and you’re gonna go to his rescue? If so, you besmirch the very idea of duty, honor, country, you sanctimonious twit. There’s a difference between a fraternal bond (no matter how strong or uniquely forged) and machismo poppycock.

    Jeez, try thinking before you speak.

  • sayanything-2

    5x, Bravo1, you are clear on this push.

  • sayanything-2

    You are a tiny minority, and quashing you is the duty of every American. Hell, of every human being, period.

  • sayanything-203

    Neiman,

    That was very well said. As usual. Thank you.

    A Marine does NOT leave a fellow Marine lying wounded on the field of battle… and that is exactly what Jack Murtha did by publicly pronouncing the Haditha Marines guilty of “cold-blooded murder… and doing so for purely political reasons.

    Semper Fi

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    Yea, I didn’t think bat one could be a Marine. His posts are lacking something. So, bat one, ease up on the Semper Fi. Build your reputation of your real accomplishments. You must have something. Ever save anyone from drowning? Bring someone back using CPR? Stop a beating? Win a high school championship? Sleep with a woman? Win a checkers game? Give a firm handshake? There must be something? Find it and be proud of it.

  • http://fu.com/ robert108

    See how it works with the leftie haters, Neiman? You give those stalker trolls a tidbit of personal information, and they try to bait you by twisting it into an insult.

  • sayanything-2

    The funniest part! dinothefakehomo has bragged that it never served, and has repeatedly sh&t all over anyone who has or is serving in the US Military. Now locked-out and IDLTG toddle in and join it in sh$tting all over our military and all who serve in it. That pretty much finishes them off. Good bye, leftards, we all knew what you were, and you keep proving it.

  • sayanything-287

    What scam did you use to get out of the military? Most republicans are experts at that. Bat must have been slow on the uptake.

    1. You will find a much, much higher rate of enlistment among conservatives than Democrats and I suspect the majority are Republicans.
    2. No, Bat was willing to risk his life to defend the liberty wherein you are allowed to speak what little is left of your mind in the public square. What have you ever done to risk anything to save the life or liberty of anyone in this life?

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    I see your ignorance is on display and you’re inordinately proud of it. Sounds very progressive to me!

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    “lump it”

    You know, I couldn’t care less if you can’t get your facts straight and you make stupid ass-umptions based on your sense of someone’s posts “lacking something”.
    Yours lack intelligence, IdltGOP, but I wouldn’t presume to determine whether or not you’d served in the military based solely on that!

  • Christine

    “YES! Vietnam Veteran, but there is no such thing as an ex-Marine, I am a former serving Marine now inactive.”

    Is that sort of like being a recovering alcoholic?

  • sayanything-4272

    Ooh-rah!

  • sayanything-287

    He saw my Avatar and I should not have said anything!

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    Well maybe, I have been reading a lot of conservative’s “thought”. That can’t be good for anyone.

  • j.l.

    Yourself

  • sayanything-287

    You should do two things immediately:

    1. Get off those mind altering drugs, you are paranoid and hallucinating.
    2. Seek psychiatric help for your mental problems.

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    Nope. I’m using The Cons rules, so lump it.

  • sayanything-287

    None of your wild charges or comparisons can withstand the facts. Yours is a world of delusions!

  • sayanything-106

    Looks like there will be some moderate phonies taking a dive in the next election.

  • lock’em’up

    Cool new slam – Fail

    Go register for the selective service.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Let the circle jerk begin.

    Or, as they call it in Portland: Thanksgiving at Dino’s house!

  • http://fu.com/ robert108

    You should kiss the feet of every Marine for preserving your right to spread your hateful garbage without consequences, Christine.

  • sayanything-287

    I stand corrected! I was being far too general and all-inclusive in my application of that “once a Marine, always a Marine” principle! Sorry!

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    Bat One,

    Are you a Marine?

  • I don’t like today’s GOP

    Then on July 2, 1980, President Jimmy Carter signed Proclamation 4771, Registration Under the Military Selective Service Act, retroactively re-establishing the Selective Service registration requirement for all 18-26 year old male citizens born on or after January 1, 1960.[9] Only men born between March 29, 1957, and December 31, 1959, were completely exempt from Selective Service registration.

    When is your birthday big Rand?

  • lock’em’up

    Dissent, not Insurrection and rebellion. Not concocting some “plan” for revolution through re-education and quashing the majority’s voice.

  • lock’em’up

    So ya gonna tell me that the seditious bat one is a Marine? Didn’t think so nuck fut. So STFU.

  • sayanything-352

    In such a format as a blog I cannot possible cover every possible situation just to satisfy some nit picking by some anti-military twit!

    Just for the record, I served 20 years, 2 months, and eight days (not that I’m counting and not that it matters). I mention that only to illustrate–once again–how your I-served-and-you-didn’t-so-I-know-and-you-don’t attitude is laughable. The fact is, I am rabidly pro-military and and slightly to the right of Genghis Kahn (again, not that it matters). What I am against, though, is attitudes like yours in which you presuppose to have a deeper knowledge, a truer commitment, a more selfless effort simply because you can pronounce the words, ‘Semper Fi.” I’m not picking nits, Neiman. I’m just calling you on the idiocy of your statement so that the uninitiated don’t accidentally confuse the rest of us who served with your pant’s-hitching bullshit.

    And this, after extolling the glory of those who did serve:

    Tell me Dino, what sacrifices have you ever made for America. I don’t want to make to do something against your natural humility, but please, when did you ever risk your life, or fortune or health, anything, knowing their was a real chance of loss to defend this land, because you love America?

    Jesus, you still don’t get it, do you? Personally, I wouldn’t spit in Dino’s ass if his guts were on fire. I think he’s about as worthless as they come…BUT…I’ve also known since 5th grade that he doesn’t have to do anything or risk anything or give back anything in order to enjoy the fruits of the freedom I gladly stood watch over for him. That is the wonder, the glory of this country: everybody–no matter how wrongheaded–gets free reign to expressing their opinion, and they don’t have to pass some patriotism-test beforehand; especially not one you establish simply because you can pronounce the words, “Semper Fi.”

    As a final example, you said:

    You are demeaning the innumerable men and women of our armed forces that, no matter your view of the reasons for war and no matter how much you hate America, gave up…

    To which I ask, “So What?” That’s what he gets to do, Neiman. That’s the price you pay for living in this wonderful country. You act like he ought to be grateful for your service. That’s it, isn’t it? Dino’s ingratitude offends you, doesn’t it? You want him to say, “Thank you for being a better man than me,” don’t you? The problem is this: When it comes to earning, much less deserving, the fruits of our liberty, you’re not a better man, Neiman. You’re just another guy who didn’t have to serve, but chose to anyway. Get used to it.

    Oh, and in case you haven’t noticed, I think you’re pretty much a pompous ass who waves the bloody-shirt of your own patriotism and service like a shield. Now, true to form, go ahead and question my bona fides rather than admit my original point.

  • sayanything-287

    You are demeaning the innumerable men and women of our armed forces that, no matter your view of the reasons for war and no matter how much you hate America, gave up better paying jobs, sometimes chances at a better education, their health, often their limbs – sight – hearing and even their lives because THEY were fighting to keep America free that those they loved and hundreds of millions they would never know could enjoy the fruits of liberty.

    Most of our military men and women, as I said, tend to be quite conservative politically, they believe in God, family, country and duty (personal responsibility). They may hate many of the things people believe in at home, even their lifestyle choices, they may disagree with their religion or a host of other things, but they feel even those that don’t support them are citizens of the greatest country on earth in all human history, with all its flaws, and they are willing to be selfless and self-sacrificing to stand up for Old Glory, the U.S.A. – America.

    Tell me Dino, what sacrifices have you ever made for America. I don’t want to make to do something against your natural humility, but please, when did you ever risk your life, or fortune or health, anything, knowing their was a real chance of loss to defend this land, because you love America?

  • sayanything-4416

    Let the circle jerk begin.

    What scam did you use to get out of the military? Most republicans are experts at that. Bat must have been slow on the uptake.

  • sayanything-6955

    You men are a special breed, my hat is off to you.

  • sayanything-1317

    And, if I remember correctly, Bat One wasn’t all “Yee Haw grab the guns and follow Beck!”

    Insurrection is a pretty strong charge. One you should be apologizing for.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Kililng a bill in the Senate via the democratic process is hardly silencing dissent.

    As cor conservatives not wanting debate and dissent, I’d point out that I hate debate and dissent so much I let idiots like you comment here without banning you.]

    On a related note: Are you actually getting stupider?

  • sayanything-6955

    LMAO, I just got this keyboard cleaned up proof.

  • sayanything-6955

    You are just a dribble down the leg of rabid skunk!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    I think the guy who trashes the military service of others unfairly based on lies looses the right to say that.

    You’re a disgrace.

  • sayanything-1317

    Where do you get off classifying ANYTHING as unintelligent when your entire contribution to this blog is to compare conservatives to slave owners and murderers. Or to simply say they’re stupid.

    When you stumble across an intelligent thought, let us know.

  • sayanything-1317

    You really are a piece of trash aren’t you?

  • sayanything-4416

    Funny, I registered in 1980 like reagan said to.

    A true American such as yourself would have registered out of patriotism. Then again, most cons will do anything to get out of following the rules they set down for others.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Hey, I’m no fan of Glenn Beck’s, but he hasn’t called for revolution. And “The Plan” isn’t even public yet.

    So…you’re pretty much just demonizing people you disagree with.

    Sad, really. That’s the only trick in your bag.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Seditious?

    I thought dissent was the highest form of patriotism, liberals?

    My oh my how things change.

  • sayanything-6955

    Mort, they did away with selective service for a few years back in the 70′s, I did not even have to register. I scammed no one fool.

  • sayanything-6955

    Dude, you need to finish grade school.

  • sayanything-6955

    Check the frigging history of selective service freak boy, then pull your head out dins crusty hole.

  • sayanything-6955

    Here crust lick, It was discontinued in 1976 reestablished 1980.
    Under the Selective Service Act of 1971, most student deferments were eliminated. In 1973, the draft was abolished. Registration was discontinued in 1976 but reestablished in 1980.
    http://history.howstuffworks.com/world-war-i/selective-service-system.htm

  • sayanything-6955

    It was not around in 75, 76 fool boy!

  • sayanything-6955

    Unfortunate as it will be, they will get their 60 votes. Landrieu was purchased yesterday, Lincoln will get a better price today, a post in the “ONE”‘s administration somewhere is a logical bet, because she will be destroyed next election.

  • sayanything-4416

    The draft board does not distinguish between liberals and conservatives.

    You didn’t enlist to protect my freedoms. You were duped into believing that. What you enlisted to protect was the wealth of the top 10%. Everyone else would be given a better deal had we been taken over by any other first world country on earth.

  • sayanything-6955

    Not to be rude Bat, but you just handed him a very respectable ass kicking. And you are right about the military folks, all branches deserve our respect. While I never did, I am damn grateful for the ones who did, and still do. Bravo.

  • sayanything-1317

    In reply to the comment “On a related note, are you actually getting stupider?”:

    Well maybe, I have been reading a lot of conservative’s “thought”. That can’t be good for anyone.

    In other words, “conservative thought is making you stupider”.

    As for bit player. No one responds to you except to mock you. You get that right?

  • sayanything-6955

    Judd Greg said this morning 97% of bills that get through this cloture vote become law in some form. It “will” happen. The next step is to make every SOB who votes for “this” cloture vote pay in 2010. That Includes Dorgan, who will try to weasel out on his next vote! Wait and watch this huckster. Pomeroy in the house is going to try and pull the same slight of hand. Conrad doesn’t care and thinks no one in ND can remember this until 2012.

Create a SAB Readerblog


Recent Comments

Powered by Disqus

Blog Advice and Support
Installs and Upgrades
Theme Modifications
Custom Plugins
Theme Design
Conversions and Relocations
Hacked Site Recovery
Mobile Apps Development