Say Anything Blog

We tried to warn the taxpayers.  We told them not to trust the politicians.  We told them that if they didn’t reach out and take tax relief for themselves they wouldn’t get any.

Now it’s going to happen.

The North Dakota taxpayers were lied to.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

If North Dakotans don’t want a tax cut, why did both candidates for Governor offer high-profile tax cut plans?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

One of the many mysteries of life, predictable, but still a deep dark mystery. Why do voters fall for the same old every time?

I want my 95% gonna get tax cut from Obamunsim, come hell or high water. I can use it to pay my new global warming taxes.

Why do voters fall for the same old every time?

Because too many of them believe whatever they see on television or read in the newspaper.

The powers that be told them that if they voted for tax relief on the ballot they wouldn’t get any property tax relief.  That was a lie, but they saw it on television and read it in their newspapers so they ate it up.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

The citizens saw right through Measure two.  They saw through the measure that was riddled with errors and with fraudulently gathered signatures. 

Your problem is Rob, that you miserably failed to read the citizens.  You failed to ask them what they thought before you put together the measure.  You thought you could tell the voters of ND what was best for them.

Now I know that you will claim that 14,000 voters signed the petition.  However we don’t know if there was more fraud in those signatures since the SOS only did a percentage of rechecking.  We also don’t know how you sold measure two to those who signed.  But clearly when the citizens figured out what was at stake they voted a resounding NO to your attempt to cripple government in ND.

We have seen time and time again that out of state groups (AFP) come into a state and try to pass tax limiting crap like the AFP did and then they blame everyone else for their poor planning, mistakes and “strategery”.

The citizens saw right through Measure two.  They saw through the measure that was riddled with errors and with fraudulently gathered signatures.

You doofus, the measure had one typo and a few of the temp workers hired to collect signatures put in bad ones.  It’s happened to plenty of measure movements around the country.  There were more than enough signatures on the petitions to pass it despite the idiocy of a couple of people.

But, just like the rest of the proponents of big government, lie and distort to get your way.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

No the voters are more concerned with their property taxes than with income taxes.  That made them willing to believe that John Hoeven is concerned about the same thing. 

The truth is that all he’s worried about are the public employees.  The taxpayer can be damned as far as he and his ilk is concerned. 

On the other hand it’s very possible to convince the legislature that they’ll be blamed again when property taxes get to be sky high again in the five years or so it will take the local school districts to blow the $400 million. 

They’d be idiots to allow them to be blamed again for the irresponsibility of the local school boards.

TANSTAAFL

I want a tax break and I want it now…

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Rob, you whiny baby, you had a measure that was flawed, had errors in math and you now make excuses for fraudulent signatures by saying it happens all over the country.  Yes, it does, but only to groups such as yours.  Eg., Bill Sizemore, jailed today in Oregon. 

Just like you to blame someone else for your poor planning, writing, math and hiring skills.

I can spend my money much more efficiently than any lazy, greedy government bureaucrat or member of the media monopoly around here, can!

The truth is that all he’s worried about are the public employees.

Along with their out-of-state goonion bosses and their campaign money!

Rob, you whiny baby, you had a measure that was flawed, had errors in math and you now make excuses for fraudulent signatures by saying it happens all over the country.  Yes, it does, but only to groups such as yours.  Eg., Bill Sizemore, jailed today in Oregon. 
Just like you to blame someone else for your poor planning, writing, math and hiring skills.

Says the person who has consistantly made excuses for ACORN and leftist groups.

Youre a liar and a hypocrite.

For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Is this the Grand Forks Herald talking?  Don’t get your shorts in a twist--the Gov. speaks today on the budget.  The legislature starts the session in January, and they have lots of work to do.
I agree that one of the first priorities is to fix some of the infrastructure, especially in the western part of the state that is over-used as a result of the oil and energy activity.
The property tax relief will come.

The property tax relief will come.

Not from John “the Con Man” Hoeven.  His plan is for a massive amount of new spending on education, not property tax relief.

TANSTAAFL

Just like you to blame someone else for your poor planning, writing, math and hiring skills.

Well, first of all, I didn’t write the petition nor did I hire anyone.  You look silly when you go off half-cocked making crazy accusations.

Second, there was one error on the petition when two tax brackets were given the same rate.  It was an honest mistake.  Should have been caught, sure, but not even the Sec. of State or the AG saw it until the second review.

As for the fraudulent signatures, how would you suggest we protect against that?  Initiated measure groups are typically volunteer efforts.  In this instance we hired some temp workers.  They forged signatures.

You can’t keep track of every single person who is collecting signatures in a movement like that.

Not that you’re willing to exercise judgment when speaking of your political enemies, right?  I mean, we’re tax cutting Republicans, so obviously we’re evil.

As for whiny, who is whining?  Honestly, the measure I supported failed and you’ve done more whining here than I have.

Just because we got voted down once doesn’t mean we’re wrong, or that we won’t one day get this passed.

Let’s see how North Dakotans feel after they go through another legislative session where the powers-that-be spend everything in site and give no tax relief.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

As for the fraudulent signatures, how would you suggest we protect against that?  Initiated measure groups are typically volunteer efforts.  In this instance we hired some temp workers.  They forged signatures. You can’t keep track of every single person who is collecting signatures in a movement like that.

Rob on December 3, 2008 at 08:31 am

In hindsight, would you give ACORN the above as an excuse?
Would you give them the benefit of the doubt about the fraudulent signatures they collected?

ACORN has a pattern of this behavior.  This was AFP’s first foray into this process.

I don’t suppose you understand the difference.

TANSTAAFL

If ACORN had exactly one instance of fraud, then yes.  I’d give them the benefit of the doubt.

But tens of thousands of fraudulent voter registrations filed all over the country?

Give me a break.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

ACORN has a pattern of this behavior.  This was AFP’s first foray into this process.
I don’t suppose you understand the difference.

The Whistler on December 3, 2008 at 02:58 pm

You suppose wrong. I know the difference.

If ACORN had exactly one instance of fraud, then yes.  I’d give them the benefit of the doubt.
But tens of thousands of fraudulent voter registrations filed all over the country?
Give me a break.

Rob on December 3, 2008 at 03:10 pm

No! I will not give you a break. If ACORN had tens of thousands of fraudulent voter registrations filed all over the country, how many by comparison AFP had in a small (population wise) state like North Dakota?

And groups similar to the AFP have been caught all over the country fraudulently gathering signatures and breaking laws.  Check out Bill Sizemore in Oregon thrown in jail this week.  The year before last the Montana Supreme Court threw out measures due to fraudulently gather signatures from a group like the AFP.

I find it interesting that the tobacco initiative and the Workers Comp initiative didn’t have errors in their measures or fraudulently gathererd signatures.

It just seems like groups like yours Rob, have great difficulty writing measures and following the law getting them on the ballot.

It seems to me that it was at the time politically convenient to bring the fraud of the signature gatherers and blame ACORN, all the while you were hiding the fraud of the signature gatherers that were working for AFP.
Nice going.

And groups similar to the AFP have been caught all over the country fraudulently gathering signatures and breaking laws.

Groups like AFP?  Would that be groups that collect signatures for ballot initiatives?

And AFP gets lumped in with these groups...why?  Because it’s convenient?

Maybe I should lump you in with Jimmy Hoffa and his mob buddies.  Since you both worked in organized labor, and that’s convenient for me.

It just seems like groups like yours Rob, have great difficulty writing measures and following the law getting them on the ballot.

I’ve been a part of two initiated measure movements, and both times helped get the measures on the ballot in a perfectly legal manner.

You can attack those measures on a policy basis if you want, but trying to impugn the character of the people involved with them just makes you look like a hateful twit.

But then, that’s what you are, so maybe there’s nothing you can do about it.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Hey look, Puzzled, union goons like you in California banned a Pulitzer-winning editorial cartoonist from a school because he dared criticizing the teacher unions.

And here in North Dakota your buddies at the NDEA banned the teacher of the year from an awards banquet because she doesn’t toe the union line.

When are you going to start the book burnings, Puzzled?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

It seems to me that it was at the time politically convenient to bring the fraud of the signature gatherers and blame ACORN, all the while you were hiding the fraud of the signature gatherers that were working for AFP.

Hiding fraud?

That’s libel, pal.  I wasn’t supervising the signature collecting.  I had no knowledge of any fraudulent signature collecting, and nor did anyone else.

If you have evidence to the contrary, Ellinas, please share it or retract your statement and apologize.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Ooooohhhh, Rob is weally, weally angwy now. Ooooh, you’d better watch out. He wants an apowogy and a weetraction.  Ooohhhhh, and he wants it now!

It is appropriate to compare you with those other groups, since your group was caught with fraudulently gathered signatures. 

Gee, Rob, lumping me in with Hoffa et al, is regularly done here on SA.  Where have you been?

Oh, and nice try at changing the subject above but the big difference is that NDEA did nothing illegal.

I didn’t do anything illegal either, and neither did AFP.

And I’m not angry.  I’m commenting with the usual smirk that’s on my face as I read your drivel.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Yeah, right!

So, are you accusing me of a crime Puzzled?  Are you accusing AFP of a crime?

Remember that you are not anonymous on this forum, and that I take my reputation very seriously.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Did I?

Ah yes, get coy and back down.

I expected as much.  You’ll attempt to besmirch my character by suggesting that I’m a criminal, but that you can’t bring yourself to just come out and say it proves that you don’t even believe it.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I’m not backing down.  The “yeah right” comment was in respect to the following statement you wrote above:

And I’m not angry.  I’m commenting with the usual smirk that’s on my face as I read your drivel.

Nice threat, tho Rob!

So you won’t just come right out and accuse me of criminal activity?

If you weren’t backing down you would.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Why?

See?

Backed down.

You’re all talk.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

You need to reread the entire thread slowly this time. Ah better yet, threaten me again, that’s what you do best.

Hiding fraud?

That’s libel, pal.  I wasn’t supervising the signature collecting.  I had no knowledge of any fraudulent signature collecting, and nor did anyone else.
If you have evidence to the contrary, Ellinas, please share it or retract your statement and apologize.

Rob on December 4, 2008 at 07:25 pm

No retraction or apology needed. You are overreacting. Never said you hid that from the authorities, or that you supervised anyone. You did not tell us here at your blog, SAB, about the fraudulent signatures collected by the signature collectors for AFP. Therefore you hid that nugget from your readers.
But you screamed bloody murder about ACORN. Even though the signature collectors did the fraud and not ACORN.
So I ask again. What is the difference other than partisan political points?

ACORN had a systematic record of fraud and never seemed all that interested in fixing the problem.

Not at all surprising that despite your statements to the contrary you don’t understand the difference.

TANSTAAFL

So, are you accusing me of a crime Puzzled?  Are you accusing AFP of a crime?

Remember that you are not anonymous on this forum, and that I take my reputation very seriously.

Rob on December 4, 2008 at 07:55 pm

Are you getting paranoid? No one accused you of crimes, you big bully. Why would you even go there?

You need to reread the entire thread slowly this time. Ah better yet, threaten me again, that’s what you do best.

Threaten you?

You’re the one insinuating that I’m a criminal.  But you’re too much of a coward to come out and say it.  Because you know it’s not true.

Now you’re caught.  Do you make a statement you know to be false in a public manner that’s on the record and face the legal consequences or do you try to spin and pretend like you weren’t making claims you can’t back up?

Clearly, you’ve chosen the latter.

And now I’m laughing at you.

You’re so entertaining.

No retraction or apology needed. You are overreacting. Never said you hid that from the authorities, or that you supervised anyone. You did not tell us here at your blog, SAB, about the fraudulent signatures collected by the signature collectors for AFP.

I guess I didn’t post about the fraudulent signature collections.  But it was reported widely by the state media here.

I’m not a news outlet, and you accused me of hiding the fraud.  Which presumes that I a) had knowledge of the fraud before it was publicly revealed and b) actively sought to keep it from being public.

I did neither.

What amazes me is that I give you liberals the courtesy of letting you say pretty much whatever you want on my blog, up to and including making wild accusations about me being a criminal, but you can’t even pay me the courtesy of being hones about something like this.

Speaks volumes about your character.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

See?

Backed down.

You’re all talk.

Rob on December 4, 2008 at 08:40 pm

Talk is all we do here at your blog. The only one that does the threatening is 2Hotel9. He even threatens to kill people, and not even a peep from you.

Are you getting paranoid? No one accused you of crimes, you big bully. Why would you even go there?

What Puzzled actually said:

It just seems like groups like yours Rob, have great difficulty writing measures and following the law

AFP didn’t break any laws, and neither did I.

Puzzled wants to suggest we did, but can’t come out and say it because she knows it isn’t true.

Hilarious.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

and not even a peep from you.

Not true.  He’s been warned.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

ACORN had a systematic record of fraud and never seemed all that interested in fixing the problem.

Not at all surprising that despite your statements to the contrary you don’t understand the difference.
The Whistler on December 4, 2008 at 08:49 pm

So what is one to do? Put two supervisors per every low life that falsifies the signature logs?

I’m not a news outlet, and you accused me of hiding the fraud.  Which presumes that I a) had knowledge of the fraud before it was publicly revealed and b) actively sought to keep it from being public.

I did neither.
Rob on December 4, 2008 at 08:55 pm

We know you are not a news outlet. And we thank you for allowing our voices to be heard.
Again. You are overeacting. No one accused you of criminal acts. You just didn’t tell your readers that AFP and ACORN had similar problems during signature gathering. That in my opinion would have been fair, even though you are under no obligation to do so. The problem is identified as “lowlife signature gatherers” falsified their signature petition papers for monetary gain.

ACORN had a systematic record of fraud and never seemed all that interested in fixing the problem.

So what is one to do? Put two supervisors per every low life that falsifies the signature logs?

I think a bare minimum would be to begin requiring that voters show some kind of picture ID at the pole.

Also, someone can be barred from a profession if they habitually screw up. A cop who repeatedly shoots unarmed people, not matter how threatening, will be tossed out of law enforcement. An incompetent or (overly) corrupt lawyer can be thrown out of the bar. An incompetent doctor can lose his license. It seems to me that those involved in ACORN’s voter registration activities should be barred from life from doing work related to voter registration.

Wing Chun. What does this have to do with signature collecting for initiatives, and voter registration?

You forget that the validity of the voter rolls lies with the registrar’s office, and not the outfit that gathers signatures or registers voters.

This: “So what is one to do? Put two supervisors per every low life that falsifies the signature logs?”

Should read: So what is one to do? Put two supervisors per signature gatherer?