Governor Hoeven’s Irresponsible Budget Represents Redemption For Measure 2 Supporters

• December 5, 2008

Back during the elections supporters (like me) of the measure on the North Dakota ballot to cut state income taxes warned that if taxpayers didn’t vote for tax relief for themselves that they were unlikely to get any from the political leaders in the state. We also warned taxpayers that if the state government was left with a massive budget surplus to spend they would, in fact, spend it all.
Now Governor Hoeven has released a budget that spends every nickel in sight (it represents a full 26% increase in general fund spending, coming on top of a 24% increase from the last session), and the paltry income tax relief contained in it is already being opposed by legislators who will undoubtedly do away with it (to appease government employee lobbyists, among others, I’m sure) once they get their hands on it during the session.
None of this is written in stone just yet, of course. Something amazing may happen during the legislative session, but I doubt it. I fully expect the session to end with government spending increased heftily even as tax revenue projections fall thanks to economic slow down and lower oil prices, and the only tax relief that might pass will be yet another stab at a property tax bailout of the sort Hoeven got passed last session and promptly abandoned.
The citizens of North Dakota are about to be taught a costly lesson about the wisdom of trusting politicians.

Tags: North Dakota News, Politics

http://sayanythingblog.com/profile/pcND pcND

The truth is that the statewide budget has nothing to do with property tax relief. North Dakotans could get property tax relief if they’d petition their local leaders to rein in spending.

Agreed – but where I live it ain’t happenin, so I’ll take the $300 Million where I can get it. I know, a hope and a prayer, but like I said before I voted for an ideal situation, to be continued.
http://sayanythingblog.com/profile/pcND pcND

pcND… how much will that $300 million tax plan help you? How much will your property taxes go down?

For 2007, as a share of annual income property taxes are a much larger problem as we are all aware. In my situation, my property tax liability is 5.5% of my annual income, whereas my income tax as a share of annual income is only 2.3%. I would assume there are many others in ND with a very comparable ratio.

How the mill levy decrease takes affect remains to be seen. Like I stated above, I did vote on idealism. Not saying it is right, nor is it wrong. But I think the majority of ND agreed with me.

Why not look at sales tax instead of individual income tax? That is a larger problem.

We can’t count on an economic boom like ND is seeing to last forever. Oil and gas revenue is not a certainty, especially with oil less than $50 a barrel. What if things completely fell apart and couldn’t increase rates for 7 years?

Finally, quit spreading the lie that somehow Hoeven’s plan wouldn’t've been possible with the passage of Measure 2.

I didn’t say it wouldn’t be possible. Obviously it is possible using just numbers. Now take the political considerations into effect, i.e. an $8 Billion budget proposal (which see my post, I think is a joke), and there you have it, not possible.
http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

Local school districts are responsible for education. Period.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

The problem is you’ve bought into the lie that the school districts won’t just spend the money starting in year two.

I think you’re in Fargo. Have you seen any evidence of fiscal responsibility there? I’ll give you a hint they have the highest mill rate in the state even though its the biggest richest city in the state.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

It seems that people in Grand Forks (and everywhere else) like to bitch about taxes but fail to hold their elected leaders accountable for raising them.
Rusty

Something amazing may happen during the Legislative session, but I doubt it

DITTO!
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

Local school boards raised property taxes by hundreds of millions of dollars in the last decade.

Do you think they’ll have any trouble blowing 400 million more.

Its obvious they won’t. Then as oil revenue declines, as it always has, we’ll be gouged with higher taxes both at the local and state level.

The greed and dishonesty of the Republican leadership is astounding.
imagine

Measure two was moronic. Voters read it, realized it and voted it down. Get over it.

Property tax is the issue
Halatbis

Most likely property tax relief will come in the form of state money to each property taxing district with the strings attached that they will decrease their taxes by the amount received. This may be voluntary compliance on the part of the districts; however, if it does not work as advertised the state legislature will and can begin to legislate something that has teeth.
An interesting article in a national newspaper the other day: the writer advocated elimination of some 6,000 school boards in favor of a total of 60 across the nation. Now that would put the fear of God into the “limited government” types.
http://sayanythingblog.com/profile/pcND pcND

I am one of those who voted Measure 2 down. I still have mixed feelings about it because of exactly what you write about. The hope that some legitimate property tax relief will come through. If dollar for dollar decreases in levies come from the districts than the $300 is a great, assuming there is some permanence to those decreases.

I do realize this is idealism, but it is the reason I voted it down. Measure One was great, Measure Two wasn’t moronic contrary to above, but it passing meant property tax relief was not happening for sure, it couldn’t even be a hope and a dream.
FlybyKnight

The stage is set for another 1989 referral when this budget or the next one (probably 35% by then) passes.
brenarlo

North Dakotans will find out very quickly how must they should trust the legislature.

pcND… how much will that $300 million tax plan help you? How much will your property taxes go down?

Let’s assume it’s the same, that it would go down the exact same as your income tax cut would’ve… then this means you’re COMPLETELY putting your family’s future in the hands of politicians.

Finally, quit spreading the lie that somehow Hoeven’s plan wouldn’t've been possible with the passage of Measure 2. $1.2 billion minus $450 million equals a bigger surplus than even last years. And last year the legislature couldn’t get it right. The dirty little secret is that Hoeven used scare tactics. He just didn’t WANT to pass his plan if Measure 2 passed.

In 5-7 years from now your property taxes are back to where they are now. The local governments would’ve wasted the money and would be right back at the trough begging for another bailout.
http://dougeefargo.blogspot.com/ dougee

North Dakotans are going to rue the day they didn’t reach out and tax some tax relief for themselves when they had the chance.

I agree Rob. Politicians like spending money to get votes next election cycle.
http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

Rob said: North Dakotans could get property tax relief if they’d petition their local leaders to rein in spending.

Rob that won’t happen in Whistlers and my town. The city of Grand Forks doesn’t believe in cutting anything they just keep raising mills and spending money.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

And blaming the state legislature for not increasing their allowance by 33% every session.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

PC: I don’t want to say that property taxes AREN’T an huge problem. They are. The problem is that the public bought the Hoeven con that he can just throw money at the problem and fix it.

Not that it was an hard con to sell since the public really hates property taxes.

At this point the only solution is to demand permanent property tax relief in exchange for the state paying more for education.

You said something about having to raise tax rates when the oil revenues fall. I’m sorry but I think you’re really missing the point on this. How is spending the money any more dangerous than giving it back to the taxpayer. After all the government layabouts aren’t going to accept a cut in their standard of living if revenues fall.

We say in the early 80′s when the oil revenue’s collapsed. Rather than give the taxpayers any break the legislature spent the money. When it dried up they expected the taxpayers to make up the difference.
http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

PC when you look at the spending increases hoeven wants is there any doubt that there’s enough money for income tax relief ala measure 2 as well as more state aid to maybe lower property taxes for a couple years.

Now all we get is more spending now and more taxes later.
http://sayanythingblog.com robport

Property taxes can’t be the issue in the state legislature, because property taxes aren’t levied by the state legislature.

The sooner we realize that, the sooner we can start talking about lowering the overall tax burden of North Dakotans.
http://sayanythingblog.com robport

As I’ve been saying, North Dakotans are going to rue the day they didn’t reach out and tax some tax relief for themselves when they had the chance.
http://sayanythingblog.com robport

For 2007, as a share of annual income property taxes are a much larger problem as we are all aware. In my situation, my property tax liability is 5.5% of my annual income, whereas my income tax as a share of annual income is only 2.3%. I would assume there are many others in ND with a very comparable ratio.

But all those different taxes add up to your overall tax burden. Given the complications inherent in effecting property tax relief from the state level, why not give taxpayers relief on a tax the state actually levies?

Especially given that the surplus is at the state level?

Also, I’d have no problem in a sales tax cut instead of an income tax cut as long as we get some sort of relief. From my perspective, though, a consumption tax (sales tax) is a much healthier form of taxation than a tax on productivity (income tax). So if we’re goign to reduce or eliminate one, I’d vote for the income tax.
http://sayanythingblog.com robport

but it passing meant property tax relief was not happening for sure

That’s not actually true. That’s the lie the public was told by the people who want to keep all of the money in government.

The truth is that the statewide budget has nothing to do with property tax relief. North Dakotans could get property tax relief if they’d petition their local leaders to rein in spending.

Nobody wants to do that, ok.
http://sayanythingblog.com robport

Agreed – but where I live it ain’t happenin, so I’ll take the $300 Million where I can get it.

So didn’t you want to take it in the form of a direct income tax reduction as opposed to a convoluted property tax rebate?

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Governor Hoeven’s Irresponsible Budget Represents Redemption For Measure 2 Supporters

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