Say Anything Blog

At least your a baseball purist.

"At least your (sic) a baseball purist."

Public Education. 

IMs ruins a person’s grammar.  Thank god for Spellcheck.

IMs ruins a person’s grammar.  Thank god for Spellcheck.

It’s a shame that the truly classy manner in which Mark McGwire handled the occasion of his "breaking" the Maris record, was marred by the fact that neither McGwire, nor Sosa, nor later Barry Bonds, deserved to have it counted as a record.

Roger Maris spent the remainder of his life tainted by a pointless asterisk.  Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire are accounted heroes.  It ain’t right. 

Bonds, Sosa, and McGwire never broke any official MLB rule. It’s profoundly unfair to judge their records based on their breaking rules that didn’t exist when they played.

I am one of those people who believe Pete Rose should be allowed to be in the Baseball Hall Of Fame. Kind of a different subject. BUT???

Pete Rose--who admitted to breaking a rule that is explicitly stated in the MLB guidelines--SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame?

Maybe they weren’t expressly against MLB rules, but some of the substances they took were illegal under U.S. law.

And that’s just the stuff we know about.

So, really, you argument doesn’t make sense Davey.  Why should MLB ball players be expected to break the laws of the country they live in so that they compete with the likes of Bonds? 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Dave… I know. I am a minority BUT, I just think he belongs in the Hall Of Fame. Even if it is in the hall of SHame section??? SHhhh…

Pete Rose should be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame… right after "Shoeless" Joe Jackson is.

Maybe they weren’t expressly against MLB rules, but some of the substances they took were illegal under U.S. law.

Really? I haven’t followed this case extremely closely, and thus was not aware. Do you have a link for me about that? Thanks.

And that’s just the stuff we know about.

Barry Bonds could have bet millions of dollars against his own team and purposely thrown the game too, but that’s just a wild, unproven accusation.

So, really, you argument doesn’t make sense Davey. 

My argument is that Barry Bonds should not be punished by MLB unless he broke the rules of MLB. I agree that their drug policy sucks, but Barry Bonds shouldn’t be punished for cleverly circumventing it.

Moreover, if what we’ve heard so far is true, and he didn’t start using steroid-like substances until 1998, Bonds was clearly already a Hall of Fame athlete based on his stats through 1997. A 3-time MVP, with 350 home runs, 400 steals, 1,000 RBIs… he was going in anyway.

Bat one...What did Shoeless Joe Jackson do? If OJ can get aquitted? Pete Rose should be honored by Finally coming out with the truth!?

Technically, since Maris played in a league with the DH and for a team with lights and without ivy, he didn’t play baseball.  :^)

Seriously, I’m aware of Bonds’ confession of steroid use (and wilder allegations) and McGuire’s use of androstendione, but Sosa?  Yes, the man’s big (and grew for his record year), but I’d suggest that we need a bit better evidence than a typical "tell-all" book.

Doc,

Actually Tiger did "bulk up" 3 years ago, under the direction of a personal trainer using a strict combination of diet and mostly Nautilus equipment.  Which is a whole lot different than using steroids (illegal) or assorted growth hormones (most of which are commonly fed to cattle to improve the steaks which you facetiously suggest may one day be banned.)

I am not unsympathetic to the libertarians who suggest that what a person does with their own body should be basically their own business.  Boortz has been making the same argument for years.  However, it is rarely mentioned that if such is to be the case, then the taxpayers can hardly be expected to pick up the tab for recovery, rehabilitation, and restitution.  It’s called consequences.  And it is the flip side, if you will, of all those lofty freedoms which are so much more comfortable to talk about.

Roger Maris was the last major leaguer to hit 60 home runs without a chemically-induced assist.  The NHRA has separate categories for cars whose engines run with nitrous-oxide boost or run on straight nitro-methane.  Sadly, we may well have to make the same sort of adjustment in baseball and other sports as well.

Zsa-Zsa,

Like "Charley Hustle," "Shoeless" Joe Jackson is banned from Hall of Fame consideration, although there are those who maintain that he was not a part of the "Black Sox" scandal and should have his ban lifted. 

Pujols kind of looks like he swallowed something? His arms are so BIG! He is way too good! I wish the ASTROS had him! I actually think he just might be naturally that BIG!!!??? I hope so anyway.

Zsa-Zsa,

Pujols is also incredbily quick… quick hands, quick wrists, quick feet.  Any team would love to have him.

In the last decade, the Braves have had two such players:  Gary Sheffield who is an off-season workout fanatic, and years back, Ron Gant, who came up a rather skinny 2nd baseman, but muscled up in the off-season when it became apparent that he did not have the defensive skills or the hitting power to get a permanent spot on the big league roster. Gant broke his leg on a 4-wheeler in the off season and was never the same again.  Sheffield has a new home with the Yankess and is still a ferociously intense hitter with the fastest bat in the majors.

Bat one...The Braves are another team I wish the ASTROS could snag a few players from! There were a couple of pitchers who were not only really good BUT, goodlooking!...I can hardly wait until baseball gets going again! I don’t think Roger is going to come back. When his mom died I think he lost his desire to play. She was his biggest fan...I would trade Duckworth for one of your Braves though???

Zsa-Zsa,

Great to find another baseball fan.  The biggest question the Astros face is Bagwell’s health and whether he can play again of not.  Word I hear is that he can hit just fine, but can’t throw at all.  

As for the Braves, last year was truly the "Year of the Rookie" with 3 stellar perfomances by local kids.  But the most amazing was Jeff Franceur, a kid who went to high school just 6 miles from my home, and who is now on the USA WBC team!  He turned down a football scholarship at Clemson 3 years ago to play baseball, and this town hasn’t been so excited about a baseball player since Chippper Jones first came up.  He is an "old school" Roger Maris type ballplayer who has a cannon for an arm, a compact, powerful swing, and is as fearless on the field as he is demure and unassuming off it.   

Pete Rose should be honored by Finally coming out with the truth!?

So… if Jeffrey Dahmer admitted to eating people, should we honor HIM by "coming out with th truth"?

Really? I haven’t followed this case extremely closely, and thus was not aware. Do you have a link for me about that? Thanks.

Google BALCO.  Those are the people who sold Bonds his goods.  What do you think they’re in trouble for? 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I went to boarding school with Ernie Banks twin boys Joey and Jerry! I am such a baseball fan that I get kind of depressed when the season is over. I was on spring break in the 80’s and was out by the pool at a hotel and this guy walks by and had a real cute dog. I said what a cute dog. He sat down and we started talking and all of a sudden reporters were swarming around us. I looked at him and said should I know who you are? He said no and said but, I would love to take you for dinner and he introduced himself. His name was Dave Kingman. I didn’t go out with him because I had plans and I was married!… I really want Bagwell to show everyone how great he can be again! He played with a bad shoulder for years! I love the way he does the splits when he catches the ball.

Dave… HA! I can’t stop laughing! That is such a bratty comparison. I knew that would not be the most popular thing I have ever said. I just liked him so much. He was so good! Is there a little spot where they put people in for a Hall of shame? Gosh that was a bratty comparison! You are a hoot!

If you want to argue that Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame, your argument has to be better than that he finally "came out with the truth." As seen by what happens when we apply that logic to serial killers.

Dave...I wouldn’t have made a very good defense attorney for Pete. BUT, I still think he was so good! His gambling problem wasn’t so good though?? His drug of choice was gambling and I just can’t help thinking the guy was a super dooper player despite his problem???

I’d actually disagree that Pete Rose was a "super-dooper" player. He was just an ordinary player who played for an extraordinary amount of time. He was a lousy fielder, had little power or speed, and a really low on-base percentage. But he avoided injuries and played regularly until he was 44.

Dave ...He got alot of hits though???

I’m not normally one to put a lot of stock in "intangible" talents, but if anyone deserves credit for them it is Rose.  His raw talent was mediocre, at best, but the thing that sets him apart is effort.  The guy played hard every single time he took the field and still managed the long career you speak of.  His ability to keep that level of intensity while simultaneously collecting batting titles (1968, 1969 and 1973), an MVP title (1973) three World Series rings (1975, 1976 and 1980) an NL-record tying 44-game hit-streak (1978) and his oft-mentioned records for at-bats and base hits makes him one of the most memorable players ever. 

Certainly someone worthy of the Hall of Fame if not for his gambling habit.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Prove, and I mean provide me solid evidence i.e. a failed drug test, that Bonds, Sosa, or McGwire took steroids in the past or present with more than cicrumstantial evidence and I’ll be satisfied.

Whether or not I or anybody else believes they took steroids is a non-issue without proof. And all the bitching and moaning about it won’t give us the necessary evidence .

Prove, and I mean provide me solid evidence i.e. a failed drug test, that Bonds, Sosa, or McGwire took steroids in the past or present with more than cicrumstantial evidence and I’ll be satisfied.

It will never happen.  The seasons those men hit all those home runs are past, and we’ll never be able to go back and test them.

But c’mon, look at how each of them bulked up.  All of them were relatively small early in their careers compared to the mountains they became later, and all of their careers seem to be following the typical juicer trend.  They get huge, they dominate, then their abilities diminish and they fade.  McGwire got out just a few short seasons after setting his record, and Sosa didn’t last much longer.  Bonds, I’m willing to wager, is on the downhill side of this trend as well.  He’ll be gone in two seasons, three at the most.  And they won’t be stellar seasons either. 

Maybe there isn’t enough evidence for you, Chris, but there is for me. 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob… Oooooooooh Rob! Thanks I needed some help there. Alot of times I will go for the underdog or the person who most everybody else doesn’t like. I also really liked Nixon! I am sure that is going to be another thing that will make me popular with everyone???

Bonds, I’m willing to wager, is on the downhill side of this trend as well.  He’ll be gone in two seasons, three at the most.  And they won’t be stellar seasons either.

Well.... he is 41, you know. It’s a pretty safe bet that he’s on the downhill side of his career.

True, but I think from here on out the "downhill" is going to be pretty steep.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

You’re probably right. Sammy Sosa (who will always occupy a space in my heart; he was my first baseball "hero" went from one of the best players in baseball to lousy to retired in three years.

Bat one… Greg Maddix and SHMULTZ are the Braves guys that are way too good! Are they still Braves? I wish the ASTROS had Shmultz! I don’t know if I spelled that right??

John Smoltz is still a Brave.  Last year he went from closer back to starter, a feat usually unheard of.  And he will likely be number one in the Braves rotation again this year.  He is truly a warrior, a term I do not bandy about lightly.

Greg Maddox is back with the Chicago Cubs, where he started his major league career.  I am a huge fan of his, and took enormous pleasure in his 300th career victory, and the fact that last year he and Roger pitched against each other.  It will be the last time ever for two 300 game winners to pitch against each other (Maddox won, 3-2).  Maddox, who has probably never thrown a "fastball" more than 89 mph, can make a baseball do things that no other pitcher ever has.  Braves announcer and Hall of Fame pitcher Don Sutton has said that Maddox is the smartest pitcher he’s ever known.  Quite a compliment from a guy whose teammates once included Sandy Koufax.

Both Greg and Roger will be voted into the Hall of Fame on their respective first ballots. 

Pete Rose should get in 20 years after Marris, and Bonds 20 years after Rose.

Zsa-Zsa,

Let me thank you for your Dave Kingman (King-Kong) story, by offering one of my own.  A true story from ten years ago.

I am the stepfather of twin boys.  They have never had much interest in baseball, but they did play on little league season years ago.  When school let out for spring break, I took them to the airport for a flight to Dallas, Texas to spend the week with their father.  At the time, because of their age, I had to go to the ticket counter and basically sign them in, then escort them to the gate until they were boarded.

At the ticket counter a man I recognized was checking in, and asked about the boys (twins have that effect on people).  I explained the situation to him as we all walked to the gate.

At the gate, the man asked the agent if there were any first class seats available so that the boys could right with him and he could watch over them on the way to Dallas.  The agent said no, there were no first class seats available.  He then told her to change his ticket from first class and put him in coach so he would ride with them til their Dad picked them up… which is what he did.

That incredibly gracious gentleman, with the monstrous NY Yankees World Series ring on his finger, was Reggie Jackson.  Mr. October.  They all rode in the back of the plane that day, discussing not baseball, but the cars and trucks in Jackson’s private collection.

Like I said, a true story.  I still have a picture from the DFW airport. 

Bat one...That is so oooooooH cool...! I love him. That story makes me love him even more. Do you know who Dave Kingman is? He was real nice BUT, his puppy was even nicer!

Zsa-Zsa,

Certainly I know who Kingman is/was, although I never had the chance to meet him in person.  That’s why I referenced his nickname, King-kong.

Kingman had only one talent.  He could hit home runs.  Beyond that he was an abyssmal baseball player.  He played for 15 or 16 years, and probably played for half the teams in baseball at one time or another.  He is today disparaged and maligned as lazy and inept, but in his prime about the only guy who could hit the long ball longer than Kingman was Pitsburgh’s Willie Stargell ("Pops" to the "We are family" crowd). 

Bat one...I did not know that about Dave Kingman. I think all I knew about him was he was from San Francisco. I didn’t really know what you were talking about with those nick names??? It sounded kind of naughty?? Willie Stargell was fun to watch! I love the Pirates stadium too. I doubt Willie, Reggie or Dave ever did steroids? Do you think?

Zsa-Zsa,

I sincerely doubt it.  Reggie and Willie Stargell both had way too much respect for the game to have "cheated" like that.  Stargell was the captain of the Pirates World Series champion team, and Reggie holds the record for home runs in four consecutive World Series at bats.

As for Kingman, his last years were with Oakland as a DH, and his home runs even then were monsters.  But I doubt he was a druggie.  At 6’6" tall and 200 to 220 lbs, his homers were huge even when he first came up to the majors.  Besides, I suspect that he was likely too indifferent to bother with steroids anyway. 

I don’t get why anyone would choose to do steroids when it is well known what happens to the body? I guess the money and fame is worth the pain of getting cancer and whatever else steroids do?

Besides, I suspect that he was likely too indifferent to bother with steroids anyway. 

LOL. Yeah, that’d be Kingman for you.

 Not long ago, Lance Armstrong was under the spot lights.  I expect that the next ‘victim’ will be Tiger Woods.  From my perspective a person should be able to ingest anything they want whether it aids them or not.  Really, how can you tell since there is nothing available for comparison?   The absurdity of it all is that perhaps someday someone will make an association between eating steak and increased strength, and decide that all athletes should be vegetarians so as not to give an advantage to the meat eaters. [You would like that, wouldn’t your, Dave]

Tiger Woods had LAZIK (sp.?) eye surgery. That is patently "unnatural," and gives him an unfair advantage over his fellow golfers. I fail to see how that is substantially different from Barry Bonds’ activities, at least in an ethical sense. Same goes for Olympians who train in high-altitude areas to artificially inflate their Red Blood Cell count. Some baseball pitchers have had to undergo ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction (commonly called "Tommy John surgery," where they take out the bad ligament in their pitching arm and replace it with a tendon from somewhere else (like their hamstring). Afterwards, most pitchers can throw even harder than before. Is this fair?

We’re going to need either incredibly strict rules or none at all, in my opinion. At this point, I’m not really sure which I’d prefer. The reason we watch sporting events is because both sides on a level playing field. Eliminating all drug laws in sports would certainly guarantee that.

I don’t get why anyone would choose to do steroids when it is well known what happens to the body?

The harmful long-term effects of steroids are not well-known. They can give you acne and shrink your testicles...certainly not anyone’s cup of tea, but not a big long-term problem.

That is medical technology aimed to prevent pain to an injury. This procedure restores movement and aleviates pain so yes it is fair!...Steroids are illegal and cause serious health concerns.

Dave, I’d be in favor of that.  Either we let all the drugs in, or baseball writes strict rules and actually enforce them.  That’s my argument against Bonds: He was using substances his competition didn’t want to break the law to obtain or were discouraged from taking.

Personally, I’d go for strict enforcement.  I’d rather see play based on actual talent, not who has the best chemical set at home.  Plus...the home runs are getting tiresome.  Juicing the ball, shrinking the parks, it is ruining the game.  Doubles, tripes and in-the-parkers are more exciting.  There is nothing that gets me pumped up like a team batting through the order and moving guys around the bases with hit after hit.  Much more exciting than those 5 - 7 games that have 7 or 8 home runs. 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Roger Maris was the last major leaguer to hit 60 home runs without a chemically-induced assist.

But he had lots of other assists. He was playing in a much smaller ballpark than Bonds. He was playing in an expansion year. His team was much better. The American League in 1961 was way, way less integrated than the National League in 2001--think of how much the American League’s reluctance to integrate dilluted the quality of the pitchers Maris faced (to say nothing of Ruth, whose statistics were hugely inflated by Major League Baseball’s refusal to allow non-whites to play).

Different generations in sports are played under different rules. Tennis players can serve the ball much faster now (with rackets made from synthetic materials) than they could 50 years ago (when they were made out of wood). Barry Bonds can hit a ball farther than Babe Ruth because of the development of Human Growth Hormone. (On a similar note, Bonds can also hit more home runs than Maris because increases in baseball salaries allow him to devote his entire off-season to working out--he doesn’t need another job to support him financially.)

Sports officials and fans are going to have to cope with scientific breakthroughs and how they can alter the way games are played.

That’s progress for you!

Tiger Woods had LAZIK (sp.?) eye surgery

Close. It’s with an ‘S’.

The harmful long-term effects of steroids are not well-known. They can give you acne and shrink your testicles...certainly not anyone’s cup of tea, but not a big long-term problem.

Very true. Many of the harmful ‘effects’ of steriods we here in the media are over-exaggerated or there is insufficient evidence to back up the claims. It seems the most common effects are purely psychological. If used properly (many people wrongly repeatedly use them, instead of taking drug holidays), steriods can actually be somewhat safe.

 If used properly (many people wrongly repeatedly use them, instead of taking drug holidays), steriods can actually be somewhat safe.

They give steroids to patients in House, M.D. all the time… so they can’t be that dangerous, right? (As you can tell, I’m full of medical knowledge. )I also seem to recall my grandmother being on steroids while hospitalized for cancer.

Close. It’s with an ‘S’.

Of course. ‘Cuz it’s a LASer. I should’ve known that. Doh!

Those steriods are usually a bit different. Corticosteroids are primarily used to reduce inflammation. They basically block production of substances, like prostoglandins, that cause allergic and inflammatory responses. Those steriods can actually be quite harmful if used incorrectly or over a long period of time. They lower the immune response and cause effects similar to Cushing’s disease.

I actually had a patient this week that was on one (Medrol dose pak) for an acute spinal injury.

Of course. ‘Cuz it’s a LASer. I should’ve known that. Doh!

It’s all good. You were just using the ‘urban’ spelling.

You cannot compare players of different eras, you can only compare the way a player ranked among his contemporaries and then compare that across the eras.  It is unfair to say that Ruth’s numbers were "inflated" because of the rules he played under, just as the asterisk beside Maris’ name was unfair.

Ruth dominated the game like no other player ever has.  He hit more home runs than entire teams.  He hit 60 home runs at a time when it was 450 feet to center in Yankee Staduim, physical training was all but non-existent and the ball was little more than a loosely knotted ball of rags.  His hitting prowess was head and shoulders above everyone else he played with.  Nobody was doing what Ruth was doing while he was doing it. You can say that had the leagues been integrated he would have faced better pitching and would have hit fewer home runs.  But then, everybody else would be in the same situation.  Ruth still would have excelled.

And this doesn’t even get into the fact that Ruth was a first-rate pitcher while playing for the red sox and was considered an excellent right-fielder for most of his career.  We often forget the other dimensions to Ruth’s came when we seen the grainy footage of the fatty mincing around the bases, but the guy was an athelete.  He didn’t take care of himself, but his talent is undeniable.

Bonds, while undoubtedly a phenominal player, is no Ruth.  He broke the home run record just a few years after it was broken by two other players.  Ruth seized the home run record in 1919 and proceeded to break it three more times until his best season (60) in 1927.  When Ruth had that season the next best was Lou Gehrig (one of the best ever in his own right) who had 47.  After Gehrig, though, the totals drop below twenty.  The guy who took third place hit 18 home runs.  Can Bonds claim to have dominated the rest of the league in that fashion?  I don’t think so.

Bonds might be the best offensive player of his time, but I don’t think any of us can say for sure because Bonds has been taking an unfair advantage.  He has been using substances that are either legally unavailable to his competitors or that his competitors were discouraged from using.  If the substances used by Bonds were freely available to other players in the league I’d probably feel differently.  But they weren’t, so I don’t.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Yeah but what about all those performance-enhancing drugs, like alcohol, cigarrettes, and hookers, Ruth was on?

Don’t forget the hot dogs.  I’ve heard stories about the man eating literally dozens of them at a time.

Whatever your opinion of Ruth as a player, you’ve got to admit that he lived the hell out of life. 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

But c’mon, look at how each of them bulked up.  All of them were relatively small early in their careers compared to the mountains they became later, and all of their careers seem to be following the typical juicer trend.  They get huge, they dominate, then their abilities diminish and they fade.  McGwire got out just a few short seasons after setting his record, and Sosa didn’t last much longer.  Bonds, I’m willing to wager, is on the downhill side of this trend as well.  He’ll be gone in two seasons, three at the most.  And they won’t be stellar seasons either. 

Maybe there isn’t enough evidence for you, Chris, but there is for me.

You know what? I do believe they took steroids but as it is neither I or anybody else can actually prove it. Unless one of them were to fail a drug test, rampant speculation and conjecture are all we have. As it is, that book is nothing but a regurgitation of stuff we already knew, nothing new or damning just more of the same kind of evidence we have been getting. This evidence may be enough for you to convict but without solid proof none of them should be denied whatever records they got or their Hall of Fame berths.

Before I wrote this, this thread had exactly 61 comments. Truly a sign from the gods.