Germany’s Speigel Magazine Does About-Face On Iraq

http://Array jvf

yeah meanwhile the authors of vaunted article “a war we just might win” MICHAEL E. O’HANLON and KENNETH M. POLLACK have all but recanted, admitting their tour was a potemkin village set up the Army.

meanwhile, troop deaths have “surged” back up to their prior levels, violence continues unabated…and the Iraqi government is beyond useless.

not buying it.

docdave

gil, you’re salivating so much hatred thst you probably need a shot for rabies. You really are posting nothing that we haven’t seen before from the most virulent leftards so why respond. However, there is a cure for your type of madness that is called reason. Pehaps some day you’ll be able to exercise that trait.

HG

At the end of the day what we have is the same old mix of big mouths like you and zero acomplishments in Iraq.

“Zero”, “Zero” accomplishments? C’mon, not even an dimocrat can believe that.

You most be going for the world championship of bull shit.

There you dims go projecting again… as proven by that load quoted above.

robert108

Rob: jvf illustrates the fact that bad news for the US is good news for the lefties. If they can’t find it, they just manufacture it.

jvf

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Aug07/0,4670,Iraq,00.html
U.S. Troop Deaths Up After Drop in July

http://juancole.com/
Massive Attack on Yazidis Kills nearly 200
Kirkuk Car Bomb Kills 11
UN to Up Involvement in Iraq
Wave of Killings, Death Threats in Najaf
Sunni Arab Guerillas Kill 5 US Troops, Use EFP
Fears of Shiite on Shiite Warfare
Dulaimi denounces Genocide against Sunni Arabs

do you challenge the veracity or relevance of any of this?

jvf

Rob says troop deaths are up because of the surge, but when they dropped to “only’ 80 in july it was a meaningful trend.
which is it? This is a shining example of the shameless way the Right spins anything they can get their hands on to justify this clusterf**ck.

Now they are back up, vicious attacks are happening ALL OVER Iraq, we are playing whack-a-mole.

As the previous poster said, your side has been tragically, consistently, shockingly, ridiculously WRONG about EVERYTHING since 2003 and before as regards Iraq. You have zero credibility. Zero.

jvf

the troop death surge is in the fox article i linked to last post…

as for the fraudulent ohanlon-pollock “tour”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/08/12/ohanlon/index.html

The entire trip — including where they went, what they saw, and with whom they spoke — consisted almost entirely of them faithfully following what O’Hanlon described as “the itinerary the D.O.D. developed.”

But to establish their credibility as first-hand witnesses, O’Hanlon and Pollack began their Op-Ed by claiming, in the very first sentence: “VIEWED from Iraq, where we just spent eight days meeting with American and Iraqi military and civilian personnel. . . . ” Yet the overwhelming majority of these “Iraqi military and civilian personnel” were ones hand-picked for them by the U.S. military…

before you dismiss it out of hand because it’s Salon, read the article…and the Fox article as well, just to be “Fair and Balanced”

docdave

Now they are back up, vicious attacks are happening ALL OVER Iraq, we are playing whack-a-mole.

I don’t suppose that you ever considered that the increased attacks could be a sign of desparation on the part of the au Queda as we relentlessly pursue and kill them. Of course, I’m also sure that they, the terrorists, are betting the farm that the weak-kneed like yourself will force an early withdrawal of our troops from Iraq if the killing accelerates. After all you are one of their best allies and they are depending on your continuing effort to undermine our military. I’m sure that you won’t disappoint them.

Tom Ritchford

“A recent report indicates that major attacks in Iraq are way down, and while troop deaths are up it’s more a result of having more troops on the ground than any renewed violence in Iraq.”

No, even before yesterday’s terrible bombing, major attacks in Iraq are happening all the time, as they have for years. The level of violence has been wandering between pitched battles and constant skirmishes for years now, nothing has changed.

You’ve been spinning this line for years. You’ve been wrong every time. Why should we believe you now?

Eventually, you’ll be right — with already one Iraqi in six killed, injured or rendered homeless by the war, perhaps an additional 10% of the population emigrated, sooner or later there just won’t be any people to kill any more.

jvf

Tet Offensive my ass.

this is the same old s**t that has been going on for 4 years. Nothing has changed.

Petraeus also said that “we need to listen to both sides of Pennsylvania Avenue” and this is should be a “National debate”. How does this fit into your narrative?

HG

You have zero credibility. Zero.

This from those “invested in Americas defeat” in Iraq.

Your commitment to our defeat even in the light of progress does not inspire but undermine confidence, does not build but destroy trust, bespeaks your insincerity, and demonstrates a lack of integrity.

It is you who and the others like you who have zero credibility.

gil

Dear Dead-Enders.

The Bush Administration is devolving into an extended holding actions to the last second of his presidency aided by enabelers like you. On too many fronts (not just Iraq), his top priority appears to be delaying the inevitable.

Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense from hell, once described the Iraqi Insurgents as a “Few Dead-Enders who refuse to acknowledge that the world around them has changed”. Today, that phrase is a self-portrait of the Bush Administration and it’s supporters.

How incredibly ironic it is that in Iraq the “Dead-Enders”, Iraqi Insurgents, are now enetering into treaties with Gen. Petraeus to combat Al-Quaida while you Right Wingers, and Neo-Cons call it a “great success”. How ironic it is to see the Iraqi Insurgents still there stronger than ever, while Rumsfeld rots in disgrace, and Wolfowitz, and Perle, and the rest of the Neo-Con loosers are relegated into anonimity by an ashamed Republican Party.

And you guys in this blog supported these Neo-Cons avery step of the way, and still do. That is why YOU ARE A BUNCH OF DEAD- ENDERS. The world has passed you by , and you refuse to understand that the world has changed. You refuse to see that America’s patiense with your ineptitude is gone. You refuse to see that you are irrelevant, and only still a voice in American politics because your idiot president has a four year contract.

After the contract is over, you and your looser friends will be gone. Hopefully rounded up, and deported to Botswana, or Zulumbia, or some place where you savages can declare wars on each other, and be happy.

robert108

Gen. Petraeus warned us of a “Tet” style offensive in late summer…

No doubt accompanied by the MSM lying about it, like they did the original Tet offensive, which was a disastrous defeat for the VC. Dan Rather and his leftie buddies just lied about it.

http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

It’s interesting just how angry you libs are getting at the idea of success in Iraq. Things begin to go our away and still you morons can’t help but work to find every negative aspect of the war you can.

Rob is right, the dems only want retreat and failure for Bush, Harry Reid said it would bring the dems more seats.

Also, Harry Reid and et al are freaking out because if the surge is sucessful and if a leftist Euro piece says it, the surge is working it makes the lefttard retreat and surrender plans less attractive. So of course the leftist/defeatocrats are going to latch on to a bombing..

gil

end socialism vote republican

First of all nut case, Iraq is still a mess after five years, thanks to big mouths like you taht can only talk and never demand accountability. Just Monday you and your delusional friends were already calling Iraq some kind of a success by saying that violence had gone down, and Democrats most be very sad because of that….. Does the 300 dead people in North Iraq, look like a reduction in violence to you? Are you mentally deficient? Does it not make you sad that hundreds of inocent people are paying with their lives your Parties incompetence? What the hell is the difference between Saddam the busher, and now al-quida the busher???? Where’s your Democracy moron????

We Democrats want America to be defeated???? No, we Democrats want you BS ‘ ers to actually do what you keep on saying you are going to do, but never actualy do…. WIN. The only thing I see you “winning” is a permanent ticket for retirement to Botswana in 2008.

At the end of the day what we have is the same old mix of big mouths like you and zero acomplishments in Iraq. All you loosers ever do is cover your ineptitude behind our Military. The Military is not the problem, they always win in their missions. The problem is that their missions never amount to anithing, because you morons always forget that it is the Iraqi people and Government the ones that are supposed to “win” not our Military.

The Iraqi Government is about to colapse while under vacation, Tuesday’s bombing is by far the worst in the entire Iraqi war, today more than 100 tortured bodies were found in Baghdad, more of our soldiers died, and on, and on as the usual toll continues… While you interpret the horror, as “The Demos want defeat and failure for Bush”…. You most be going for the world championship of bull shit.

docdave

You most be going for the world championship of bull shit

. I think you already won that prize with your ranting wild post. You say that you and the Dems want us to win but your only strategy is to withdraw. Duh, how does that help us to win? As usual you and the lefties are all smoke and no fire.

robert108

We Democrats want America to be defeated????

Yes, you do. Harry Reid: “The war is lost.” Sounds like defeat to me.
I know you hate-filled lefties are getting desperate to see us defeated, in the vain hope that it will benefit you politically, but it ain’t gonna happen.

gil

HG

My “pathetical question”

You don’t like it when some one trows at your face the kind of bull you used to support right?

The facr HG is that indeed Rummy did come out with that now famous phrase to describe precisely the same Insurgents that you are now happily supporting, and calling a “success”.

So what gives pal? Where they not dead-enders according to you and Rummy?

What ever happen to all the list of Neo-Cons gods that you used to worship???? Are they all in some witness protection program, because no one has heard from them in months!!!

And furthermore, can any one of you morons explain to me how are we supposed to win with the Iraqi Government colapsing????

OH but Harry Reid believes the war is lost….. OK prove him wrong then!!!!!
It starts by demanding that Bush changes his BS policy, and starts understanding that there is no “Democracy” to be achieved in Iraq in the next 100 years. OH but you will never go against your god…. You guys are Zombies, not intelligent rational people.

If things never went right in Iraq, is not you or your leader that are to blame, is the Democrats!!!!

Dear Lord, you guys desrve what’s comming to you in 2008. At that time the Democrats will “loose” the war you could never win.

http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

And you guys in this blog supported these Neo-Cons avery step of the way, and still do. That is why YOU ARE A BUNCH OF DEAD- ENDERS. The world has passed you by , and you refuse to understand that the world has changed. You refuse to see that America’s patiense with your ineptitude is gone. You refuse to see that you are irrelevant, and only still a voice in American politics because your idiot president has a four year contract.

ARE YOU DONE LECTURING US YET?

http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

Gil would recommend that you take some prozac then a deep breath.

I think you already won that prize with your ranting wild post. You say that you and the Dems want us to win but your only strategy is to withdraw. Duh, how does that help us to win? As usual you and the lefties are all smoke and no fire

DocDave is right the guys sounds like of these Talkingpoints, Daily Kos nut cases that can’t see past his hate of bush

HG

We Democrats want America to be defeated????

Here, answer your own question. What have you dimocrats done to victoriously end the war in Iraq? What have you dimocrats done to hasten our victory in Iraq?

Neiman

Headinorder:

What is an “American victory in Iraq” anyway? Didn’t that already happen in 2003?

You are right, for shorthand we often say victory over our current efforts to end the civil strife and terrorists activities. The actual war was won in a few weeks after invasion.

If the victory is defined as “US control of oil” thats a long way away.

I don’t recall it ever being our goal to control Iraqi oil in any manner, shape or form. If you have other documented information please don’t be shy.

If victory is permanent bases, that is closer but still distant.

That would not be, in my opinion a definition of victory, only an end result.

If it is democratic government for Iraq, they’ve got that. If it is peaceful government for Iraq, not going to happen.

A peaceful government is not going to happen, are you prescient or have you received some revelation?

I don’t think there will be a prolonged stay in Iraq. The payoff isn’t great enough.

That might be true of our motive was ever an economic one; but again oh omniscient one, perhaps you have objective information to the contray and perhaps you would stand upon some mountain and tells us what we need to know.

Neiman

ibfamous: Please tell us all what else goes on in that psychedelic world of yours, it must be endlessly fascinating!

Neiman

gil: In what I am about to say, please do not think I support Robert108 in any way, shape, manner or form. Oh, and be careful these people get their feelings hurt easily, some of them don’t like to debate the issues, just call people names.

Since we went into Iraq we quickly deposed Saddam and won the Iraq War. Al Queda taking advantage of our presence there made a decision to confront the Great Satan in Iraq, and they along with Saddam’s former pals now out of jobs have made our job of establishing the peace there incredibly hard. Yet, we helped them establish a government and a constitution and in most of Iraq today a relative peace reigns as well as daily increasing prosperity for most Iraqi’s. It’s not perfect, what is in this life, so we have had major bumps along the way, yet despite some desperate attacks today the peace is being won and there are signs the sectarian divisions are giving way.

This is a different kind of war than we have fought before, there have been mistakes in prosecuting this war; but no matter what you think of those mistakes and how long the struggle has taken, if we don’t win the peace and establish a stable Iraq, Al Queda will have won and the price we will all have to pay for that loss will be quite painful indeed.

gil

HG

“The war is lost”

NOOOOO!!!! What ever gave you that idea after five years of nothing.

We are indeed winning!!!! Just today the news are 500 dead in the latest attack, and the Iraqi Government desintegrating.

Is not our problem you guys are delusional.

The war by the way was lost by you, and your followers. Of course since you cowards don’t want to accept the loss, you keep our troops out there to see if some how they can win it for you.

gil

Robert.

Zulumbia is next to Zombielawanda where you and your pals came from illegaly.

You know I noticed that in all your answers you conveniently ignore my comment of who Rummy your ex-god refered to as “Dead- enders”

is it not the same guys you now are so happy to have on your side fighting with Gen. Petreaus????

SO whose the dead-ender now?

gil

docdave.

No doc, in order for us to win we are supposed to stay there until the cows come home, and hope that some how some way the Sunni and Shiite that have been killing each other stop.

Now that’t the winning strategy!!! And to prove it’s working you have five years of NOTHING comming out of Itaq.

With the record you guys have you should not be even allow to drive a bicycle, let alonh try to lecture me about how to conduct a war. Tell me “Doc” what have you won in the last five years????

A stupidity contest?

robert108

gil: Wait for the beheading video; you’ll be the star.

robert108

Of course since you cowards don’t want to accept the loss, you keep our troops out there to see if some how they can win it for you.

So you admit the possibility of victory. Pretty good for a leftie.

gil

Robert.

“Don’t worry we will save you” you defeatist Dimocrat, bla, bla, bla.

After you last five years of messing up even the simples of tasks… Like protecting the Iraqi Antiquities Museum because you Hill Billie people forgot to plan for the occupation …. You believe you can save me?

Pal, you have to save yourself… You are sinking in your own bull shit.

http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

gil said, At the end of the day what we have is the same old mix of big mouths like you and zero acomplishments in Iraq.

“Zero acomplishments in Iraq”?

Thanks for saying that so early in your long line of spewing bullshit comments. You outed yourself as a liar early on.

It’s not worth it to debate with liars.

robert108

gil: Nice defeatist rant. I see you are ready to bend over and grab your ankles for the terrorists. Just before they behead you, of course. On the other hand, there are enough non-cowards to win against them, so don’t worry, we will save you.

gil

docdave.

Judging by your picture, your brand of “reason” is to shoot first and ask questions later.

But since you want to reason, why don’t you reason this;

How do you win in a country with a colapsing government on a vacation in the middle of our surge?

Please do reason that one, I am all ears.

gil

Neiman.

I like your stile. At least you sound like a person that is willing to reason a problem.

Now, about your coments.

The factthat we helped the Iraqi people establish their government does not mean that we will baby-sit for them into infinity. Let’ sbe reasonable here, and understand that even tough there are some areas of Iraq that enjoy relative peace, that peace can be shattered at any moment by al-quaida, Sunni Militias, or Shiite Militias.

Case in point is what just happened in Qahatanya in Northen Iraq where 500 + inocent civilians lost their lives, while people on this blog talk about how “things are improving in Iraq”. Qahatanya for any one that wnats to cjeck is one of the provinces where just two years ago was louded as a “success” story by Bush. Do you remember our surge in 2005 ? It was in the Tal Afar province right next door to Qahatanya, and 8,000 American troops fought their way to still another “victory’ and drove out Insurgents from the area.

The area is now back in chaos simply because our Army can’t be in all places, an the Iraqi Army will not stand up. So what good is to have some calm areas of Iraq, if at any moment all hell can brake loose? what good is an Iraq that no longer has it’s best living among them, because they have all left to other countries? Are you aware that more than 4 million Iraqies are now gone frome Iraq?

“The increasing prosperity of Iraq”, is an observation that I do like to challenge. Please tell me from where are you getting that in a country where there is no electrical grid, a Government near collapse, no basic water supply, under constant treat of attack, with an oil infraestructure in shambles, with shortages of the most basic necesities, with electrical outings that last for hours every day, etc…. they are “prospering”.

Let’s not get confused here, and start demagogyng an issue. I do agree that certain regions are better off than others. But that’s precisely the point I, and a lot of Democrats have been making about Iraq. Irarq is a de-facto partisioned country. If you go to the North (Kurdistan) for the most part you’ll see that relative prosperity you talk about… But the catch is that the Kurds are not about to give up their hard earned freedom, and Army (The Peshmerga) and simply give it to some mad Shiite Mullahs in bed with Iran…. They simply will not, no matter how much Bush, or the Right wants to make it happen.

The fact is also that the Shiite will never again agree to share power with the Sunni they hate, or the Sunni allowing the Shiite to rule them. It is idiotic to think that they will allow to all the “compromises” that need to be done for a true Democracy to take hold, just because some American “President” thinks is a good idea. It is demented to presume that our Army in “surge” after “surge” can some how hold on to their gains with 150,000 troops on their third, and fourth tour, while at the same time make the Shiite, Sunni, and Kurds come to agreements that are clearly against their interests.

Horror scenes like the one in Qahatanya with more than 500 inocent civilians dead and hundreds wounded will sadly continue simply because we are asking too much from our Army. They have performed incredibly well, but still the demented Right is not satisfied, they demand victory…. A victory that has to come from a flawed policy, and the army has to produce it or die trying. How sad that so many brave men in Uniform have the Right as their leaders asking them to continue to carry the water for their mistakes. They deserved so much better than that.

jvf

Rob says troop deaths are up because of the surge, but when they dropped to “only’ 80 in july, the right was trumpeting this as the coming of “Victory”

Now they are back up, vicious attacks are happening ALL OVER Iraq, we are playing whack-a-mole.

amh

Just a note: “Spiegel Online” and “Der Spiegel” are, although affiliated, not the same.

Different people work there and different articles appear on the two media. “Spiegel Online” also has a bit of a bad reputation for inaccurate investigations.

Says nothing about this headline being true or not, of course. SpOn is, however, not a major European media outlet – only the print version “Der Spiegel” is.

HG

If things never went right in Iraq, is not you or your leader that are to blame, is the Democrats!!!!

Not true. There is plenty of blame to go around. When we win, and we will, the credit will not be so easily spread around now will it. You libs have your share of the blame but you’ll have to try and steal any credit for any success in Iraq.

IMO Bush handled this war too softly. There should have been no mosque, cemetary, or measured civilian casualties restricting our aggression against our enemies. This is one place our political side must accept blame.

HG

Gil,

What, didn’t like the answer to your pathetically ignorant question so you decided to rant about something you dimocrats are well versed in… dead ends?

jay k.

“Four suicide bombers hit a Kurdish Yazidi community in northwest Iraq on Tuesday, killing at least 175 people and wounding 200 others, the Iraqi military said.”
Can you say whack-a-mole?

http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

The CDU and SPD’s recent victories seem to have influenced The Truth being told in Germany. Glad to see this being published.

robert108

“Zulumbia”??????

Neiman

John Ryan:

Well time will tell all but I am not sure how important the “military” situation actually is if the Iraqis show NO signs of political reconciliation, then civil/sectarian strife will continue.

Ah, another Democrat that cannot stand the idea of an American victory in Iraq, stealing defeat out of the jaws of victory, not seeing the glass as half-empty, but down to the last drop; that is, unless the Democrats run the country and fill that glass up again with money from the criminal wealthy class.

As for the Democrats being so hated please remember that most Americans now identify with that party, if the Republicans don’t start talking some sense soon there party will become increasingly irrelevant.

I am assuming you are a teenager and dropped out of high school? I remember not too many years ago how it was doom and gloom, the Democrats had lost two Presidential elections, then even though the country elected Billy Jeff, the Democrats lost the Congress for over a decade, they were losing governorships, state legislatures and their party was fast becoming irrelevant. Then 2006 comes by and barely taking back Congress, suddenly everyones a Democrat and the Republicans are irrelevant? That is juvenile thinking!

These things swing back and forth like a pendulum and that has kept America on a pretty even keel since our founding. So, cool your jets! You will wake up and find Republicans and Democrats are still roughly even in numbers, with even the Independents leaning about 50:50 conservative versus liberal.

Lastly, don’t commit suicide if the Republicans take back the Senate or even the House by a small percentage next election cycle. While you’ll hate it, if it looks like we are at last gaining significant ground in Iraq and getting closer to leaving, you might have to face a Republican sweep of the country once again.

jvf

“I don’t suppose that you ever considered that the increased attacks could be a sign of desparation on the part of the au Queda”

Wishful. Thinking.

http://www.willisms.com/ Zsa Zsa

So, uh, What happened to the cut and run thing? Surely the Republicans and the Bush administration can’t be RIGHT!?!?

http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/ Chief RZ

Likwidshoe, they take their strategy from 1984, newspeak… “we have always been at war with ________ !”

Headinorder

What is an “American victory in Iraq” anyway? Didn’t that already happen in 2003? Semantics.

If the victory is defined as “US control of oil” thats a long way away. Oil is controlled by Iraqi gangsters who sell to the highest bidder- Iran, Kuwait, Turkey. They have many masters, one is the US but the US has only symbolic or at most limited control of oil installations.

If victory is permanent bases, that is closer but still distant. Remember the bases have to be resupplied (by road), the cost is the same or more than it was before the surge (the present cost is unsustainable). The security situation must get a lot better before costs can approach those of other foreign bases.

If it is democratic government for Iraq, they’ve got that. If it is peaceful government for Iraq, not going to happen.

Given the impending global economic woes, I don’t think there will be a prolonged stay in Iraq. The payoff isn’t great enough.

HG

The war by the way was lost by you, and your followers.

Gil,

I love it when you illegitimate children of liberty, i.e. bastards, pretend only republicans are at war in Iraq.

Dude, you have no answer to the question you asked because the fact is that for the most part democrats have done little to nothing to pursue victory in Iraq. They have hedged there bets on defeat every step of the way. When victory is secure the democrats will get what’s comin’ to ‘em and that will make victory all the more sweet. Face it. Be honest. You and your ilk wanted us to loose all along and refuse to even entertain any notion of victory regardless of whether it is possible.

ibfamous

It was that well know liberal G W Bush that said the surge was about politics, not combat. It was suppose to give the politicians room to maneuver, to move toward a solution… well, we’re waiting… oh, having a meet/ass-kiss festival with Iran counts? What else has this surge accomplished? Someday, hopefully before the two decade anniversary of the conflict you will have to face the fact that we are never going to get the solution we want (A Middle East oil producing country that dances to our tune) and that more dead people will not solve the problem in Iraq.

http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

The US military is more successful in Iraq than the world wants to believe.

The US military is successful no thanks to Der Speigel. No thanks to the world’s Left. No thanks to every socialist. No thanks to the Democrats. No thanks to American “liberals”.

These people have opposed the war every step of the way. They have preached defeat. We must never let them rewrite history and we must never let them forget that they have done NOTHING to help win the war.

All we have heard from these people for the last four years is that “the war is already lost”.

http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

Macht und LÃ¼ge

I believe that translates to “Power and Lies”.
And Rob, I know Der Spiegel is The Mirror, but you might want to correct the mirror image of e and i in your headline. -Bilingual Proofreader
(I know! Picky, picky, picky!)

John Ryan

Well time will tell all but I am not sure how important the “military” situation actually is if the Iraqis show NO signs of political reconciliation, than civil/sectarian strife will continue.
As for the Democrats being so hated please remember that most Americans now identify with that party, if the Republicans don’t start talking some sense soon there party will become increasingly irrelevant.
As for flip-flopping perhaps some would enjoy watching the video of Cheney in 1994 speaking to the conservative American Enterprise Institute explaning why the invasion/occupation of Iraq would be such a BAD idea. I like it best when Cheney says quagmire and not worth the cost of American lives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

John Ryan – As for the Democrats being so hated please remember that most Americans now identify with that party

Really? Prove that one.

I’m going to say that you’re talking out of turn here, pulling this out of your ass, and making things up.

As for flip-flopping perhaps some would enjoy watching the video of Cheney in 1994 speaking to the conservative American Enterprise Institute explaning why the invasion/occupation of Iraq would be such a BAD idea.

Well, you talk to Cheney about that one. Why are you bringing it up to us? We don’t answer for that guy.

I like it best when Cheney says quagmire and not worth the cost of American lives.

You’ve got to get your jollies somehow I guess.

http://ndgoon.blogspot.com/ goon

Man Harry Reid isn’t going to like that saying the war is lost. I guess they are going to have to try to win now instead of surrender. Seems as if they are saying it in Europe it has to be true…