Say Anything Blog

Well with the issue of plagiarism we can surely count on the liberal left to wring their hands, gnash their teeth and demand things, right?

After all they were lividly frothing at the mouth like rabid marmots at Ed Schaffer plagiarizing an article about submarines. So with what is probably the largest paper in North Dakota committing the same literary felony, we should be able to expect demands of public contrition from the likes of Ryan at ’catboxmusings‘ and Bismarck Dems. After all they are just interested in evenhandedness and equal treatment right?

C.

Don’t hold your breath, Chris.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

“"And in the most recent municipal election, Democrats won the majority of seats on the City Commission. In Fargo, competence, not partisanship, has spurred the city’s growth.”

I don’t see how electing Democrats at the local level has any bearing on the scope or popularity of the Democrat Party.  It ain’t like Nancypants is out herding the local cats and threating to cut their earmarks.

At the local level, a lot of Republicans come off as mean spirited and as older less concerned folks that only want their taxes cut.  Most Democrats at the local level are soccer moms concerned with funding the local school or cleaning up a community park or putting in a new rec center.  Ask yourself how a $.01 sales tax increase affects the global scheme of things contrasted to how the corporate tax rates, dividend taxes, capital gains taxes, or national tax rate does.  And also ask yourself how much impact the minor property taxes at that level effect business growth and who wants to live in your community as opposed to the next suburb over.

At the local level, you actually know most of the politicians and for that matter, at the state level in our smaller states, you probably do too.  Their policies are limited in scope as opposed to national policies and national politics.

Plagiarism, I’m not sure, Rob. 
A reading of the article and you will find that the source of the information is clearly identified. The use of the quote is accurate and the name of the person who was quoted was listed and accurate.

So then we need to look at the definition of plagiarism: the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one’s own original work. (Dictionary.com) or from Merriam Webster: “to commit literary theft: present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.”

There was no unauthorized use since the press release was sent to the Forum.  The reporter cited the source of the information and accurately quoted the speaker using his exact words.  In order to avoid plagiarism one would need to make sure that credit for the use of an idea, orfact or any such information is properly credited with the source of the information or writer or speaker. 

So I would have to question whether this is truly plagiarism.

They copy/pasted two entire paragraphs from an advocacy group’s press release.

Somehow, Puzzle, I don’t think you’d feel the same way if the Forum was caught copying two paragraphs from an NDGOP press release.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

What is the average age of the reporters on this paper?

I’ll guess they are under 30.

Go to that link and look at the first paragraph again.  The first one copy/pasted from the press release.

No quotation marks, no source.  Nothing to indicate that the paragraph in question was lifted from a press release.

And this is supposed to be journalism?

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

No, most of them are graying prairie populists.  Janell Cole and Dan Davis are each well over 40, I’d guess.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

How does that fit the definition of plagiarism, Rob?

Copying a significant portion of someone else’s writing and claiming it as your own with no attribution to the original author is the very definition of plagiarism.

But even if you can worm your way to a conclusion that it isn’t plagiarism, it’s horrible and dishonest journalism.

And you’d be screaming your throat bloody if this were done to an NDGOP press release.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Maybe I’m a bit confused but didn’t the article cite to the study released by the rural center and didn’t the quote used actually say something “said so and so”.  How can that be plagiarism?

I could repeat and entire news article verbatim as long as I properly attribute where I got the article and who wrote it.

I hope you aren’t arguing that the plagiarism applies to the person who actually wrote the press release.  The reporter clearly indicated where the information came from and quote the person verbatim using his actual name.  How this is plagiarism is beyond me.  Contrast and compare with the Shafer incident, one is and one is not plagiarism.

What is horrible and dishonest about this.  We know where the information came from.  the reporter didn’t claim that this was the reporter’s own information and didn’t quote a source without attribution. 

Actually I wouldn’t be screaming bloody murder because as long as it is attributed and sourced, it wouldn’t be plagiarism.

I could repeat and entire news article verbatim as long as I properly attribute where I got the article and who wrote it.

You couldn’t, actually.  If I copy/pasted an entire NY Times article onto this blog I’d be in trouble even if I did post a link to the source.

But since you’re batting your eyes and claiming innocent ignorance (as opposed to the full-throated belly aching you’d be engaging in if the Forum lifted two whole paragraphs from an NDGOP press release), I’ll run through this again.

This is from the Forum (relevant sections in bold):

Rural votes across the country are shifting toward Democratic congressional candidates, the Center for Rural Strategies’ latest poll shows.

The poll of rural voters in 41 contested congressional districts showed that voters preferred Democratic candidates for the U.S. House 52 percent to 39 percent. In mid-September, voters were evenly split between the two parties at 45 percent each. Competitive rural Senate races are nearly evenly split between the parties, the poll shows.

“The numbers in this poll have to be disturbing to any Republican involved in the upcoming election,” said Bill Greener, a Republican strategist and consultant on the poll. “Republican success has relied on strong support from rural voters, and this survey indicates we don’t have that support today. We have to do better if we are going to reach our objectives on Election Day.”

This is from the Center for Rural Strategies press release:

Rural battleground shifts toward Democrats

October 27, 2006

The rural vote has shifted in favor of Democratic congressional candidates in the last month, indicating Republicans are losing ground with a key constituency, according to the Center for Rural Strategies Poll.

The poll of rural voters in 41 contested congressional districts found that likely voters preferred Democratic candidates for the U.S. House of Representatives by a margin of 13 points, 52 percent to 39 percent. In mid-September, the same population of voters was evenly split between the two parties at 45 percent each.

In contested Senate races in states with significant rural populations, rural voters preferred Democrats by 4 points, 47 to 43 percent, reversing the 4-point lead Republican Senate candidates held among rural voters in mid-September. But those results fall within the poll’s margin of error.

“We’re seeing a real erosion in Republican support among rural voters, and that could determine who controls Congress,” said Democrat Anna Greenberg, one of the poll’s analysts. “There has been a perfect storm of issues that have led rural voters toward Democratic candidates—the war in Iraq, economic struggle in rural communities and a muddling of ‘moral values’ because of the Mark Foley scandal.”

“The numbers in this poll have to be disturbing to any Republican involved in the upcoming election,” said Bill Greener, a Republican strategist and consultant on the poll. “Republican success has relied on strong support from rural voters, and this survey indicates we don’t have that support today. We have to do better if we are going to reach our objectives on Election Day.”

Two entire paragraphs taken from the press release, completely unchanged, and inserted into a Forum article as though they were written by the author of that article and not from a press release.  No quotes, and no attribution that the words were a direct quote.

The only thing quoted directly in the Forum article as though it weren’t something the Forum journalist had written were the words attributed to Mr. Greener.

Quoting a press release is one thing.  Copying/pasting two entire paragraphs verbatim from a press release is horribly dishonest journalism.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Let’s see if I can explain this so even you can understand Rob.

The first paragraph says this: 

Rural votes across the country are shifting toward Democratic congressional candidates, the Center for Rural Strategies’ latest poll shows.

(emphaisis mine)

The very next paragraph then uses the information from the poll done by the Center for Rural Strategies latest poll in the very next paragraph. Anyone reading this would absolutely know where the information came from,the Center for Rural Strategies.

Now the other section you claim is plagiarized is this:

“The numbers in this poll have to be disturbing to any Republican involved in the upcoming election,” said Bill Greener, a Republican strategist and consultant on the poll. “Republican success has relied on strong support from rural voters, and this survey indicates we don’t have that support today. We have to do better if we are going to reach our objectives on Election Day.”

Again, this is a direct quote and is attributed to the person who said it.

Just do a bit of research yourself on plagiarism and you will see that this is not plagiarism. 

Now if you want to talk about the biases of the poll or the group doing the poll, that’s different than plagiarization.

(I accidentally posted this on the other article as well when I was reviewing your previous post last fall.)

My goodness, Puzzle...the Forum lifted two whole paragraphs from a press release, and you think this is acceptable?

I have lost all faith in your ability to put partisanship aside and criticize what is truly wrong.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Ok, two paragraphs that were properly attributed to the organization and properly attributed the quote to the person who said. I still don’t see how this is plagiarism.

Of course you can claim that I am biased, but that would never apply to you in this situation, that you dislike the Forum because they are apparently not right winged enough for your taste and the fact that you reject the results of the poll.

You have made clear time and time again your feelings on the results of the election and why republicans lost and now when a poll comes out questioning the republican strength in rural areas, your are positively apoplectic over it and scream plagiarism.

You cling to the “they lifted two entire paragraphs” meme as if that proves plagiarism yet it you were to any modicom of research on what constitutes plagiarism you would see that this does not fit the definition.

But since I am the biased one here,we won’t talk about your biases.

I think Puzzled is thinking that the Forum being such a strong ally with the liberals it doesn’t matter if they reprint their press releases.

It’s like Rob using posting an article that ran in the Beacon on his web site. 

Journalistic independence be darned.

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What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

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Ok, two paragraphs that were properly attributed to the organization and properly attributed the quote to the person who said. I still don’t see how this is plagiarism.

But they weren’t properly attributed at all.  What, in that first paragraph, would tell the reader that the words had come from a press release and not the author of the article?

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Puzzle, how would you feel if I lifted a paragraph from a Heritage Foundation press release and inserted it into one of my posts without any indication as to where that paragraph came from?  No quotes?  No blockquote?  No link?  Nothing?

You’d be upset, I’m sure.  But because this is the Forum, and the Forum is liberal, it’s ok I guess.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

It doesn’t have to come from the author of the press release, it came from the organization. Geesh Rob, just do a bit of research on plagiarism and you would see this.  But your hatred for the Forum has blinded you to what is real plagiarism. 

It is clear from the article where the information came from, the Center for Rural Strategies.  The reader clearly knows this from the article.  It is not plagiarism because the reporter did not list the author of the press release. 

Also, most press releases from organizations are written by their public affairs person/department and the contact person listed on the press release is usually someone other that the person who wrote the press release.  For you to claim that this is plagiarism because it didn’t cite to the actual writor of the press release is simply wrong and clearly not plagiarism. 

Again, Rob,do a simply google on plagiarism and press releases.  But of course you won’t do that because your hatred for the Forum and the results of the poll.  It’s just too easy for you to yell plagiarism but yet can’t prove it using the standards of journalism and plagiarism.  In Rob’s world, it’s plagiarism and that’s all that matters.

As to your question about you using something from the Heritage Foundation.  If you had done it like was done above where you would indicate the following:

The rural vote has shifted in favor of Democratic congressional candidates in the last month, indicating Republicans are losing ground with a key constituency, according to the Heritage Center.

The poll of rural voters in 41 contested congressional districts found that likely voters preferred Democratic candidates for the U.S. House of Representatives by a margin of 13 points, 52 percent to 39 percent. In mid-September, the same population of voters was evenly split between the two parties at 45 percent each.

(changes mine).
Now in the first sentence you identify that there was a poll done by the Heritage Center.  Now the second sentence gives the results from that poll.  The reader would clearly know that the results form the poll came from the Heritage Center.

So thanks for letting me prove my point.

So thanks for letting me prove my point.

Prove what point.  That it’s ok to just copy/paste entire paragraphs out of press releases and call it journalism?

But since you’re ok with this, I’ll go ahead and just start copying/pasting entire paragraphs of anti-union writings from Wal-Mart press releases and posting them without indicating that the words you’re reading were written by a Wal-Mart PR person and not myself.

Because that’s what the Forum did, and that’s ok.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs: