Fargo Forum Editorial: Fiscal Conservatism Is “Downright Goofy”

Today’s editorial in the Fargo Forum takes some, frankly, rather mean-spirited pot shots at the newly-founded North Dakota Taxpayer’s Association:

North Dakotans can thank themselves for having had the good sense to reject a misguided income tax cut measure that was pushed by the now-defunct Americans for Prosperity, a group that was formed in the state by Duane Sand, the rejected Republican candidate for the U.S. House, and Ed Schafer, the former Republican governor and current U.S. secretary of agriculture. (Schafer ended his involvement when he was named to the USDA post; Sand got off the payroll when he got the nomination for the House run.)
The executive director for “prosperity” was Dustin Gawrylow. He quit shortly after the November election, when the association’s tax cut measure was thrashed by voters.
But like flotsam at low tide, the former executive of the misnamed “prosperity” group has washed up on North Dakota’s public policy beach as executive director of a new self-defined watchdog group – something called the North Dakota Taxpayers’ Association. Gawrylow is nothing if not persistent in glomming on to causes most North Dakotans find at best out of the mainstream, at worst downright goofy.
Gawrylow’s association affixes North Dakota to its title, as if to suggest it represents all North Dakota taxpayers. It surely does not.

I wonder where Zaleski gets the idea that the NDTA doesn’t represent North Dakotans? The organization may not represent North Dakotans who happen to sit on the Fargo Forum editorial board and pen grumpy screeds to be handed down to the plebes from the ivory tower, but the group is most certainly North Dakotan. The director, Dustin, is a born-and-raised North Dakotan. The list of supporters and contributors consists mostly of North Dakotans.
Zaleski suggesting that the NDTA isn’t a North Dakota group is like me suggesting that the Fargo Forum isn’t a North Dakota newspaper because they cover stories and sell copy in Minnesota.
I know that with the Measure 2 tax cuts going down on the last budget, the big-government “Republican” John Hoeven winning re-election handily and Obama winning nationally the proponents of big government are all about telling fiscal conservatives that they can all go die in a fire, but that doesn’t mean that the cause of fiscal conservatism is dead. North Dakotans didn’t reject tax relief when they voted down Measure 2. They simply bought a lie they were sold (by the Forum editorial board, among others) about income tax relief meaning no property tax relief.
When North Dakotans ultimately get neither someone is going to have to answer, but for now Zaleski and his ilk get their victory laps.
The rest of the editorial consists of Zaleski getting exercised by the NDTA’s daring to suggest that maybe something’s wrong when a 39% budget increase for higher education isn’t enough. Especially when North Dakota is already 2nd in the nation in per-capita spending on higher education, and some of our tuition rates run as high as 20% more than the average tuition in the rest of the country.
Perhaps, instead of attacking the directors of political advocacy groups, we could actually discuss those problems? Is that asking too much?
I know that in Jack Zaleski’s perfect would we rank-and-file citizens would just shut up and trust what our betters tell us. Thankfully, this isn’t Jack Zaleski’s world. This is America, and in America we have a right to our free speech. And a right to petition the government with our grievances.
And there’s not a damn thing “goofy” about that.

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  • http://Array puzzlefeet

    wlegend14 writes:

    Which of the above reasons would make me vote AGAINST giving myself more money???

    Not one of the reasons you claim for the demise of your measure, but the one that says that the taxpayers didn’t trust your group. You couldn’t write the measure correctly, and the signatures weren’t properly obtained.

    The reason is that your group had no credibility with the taxpayers.

  • wlegend14

    a) as a sponsoring committee member of measure 2, as you also are Rob, can you explain to these bloggers that we DID analzye the results. It was obvious that the voters were lied to, and because of the fact that outside organizations like NEA who pitched in over a half million dollars to lie to the voters, they won. And, as far as stupid voters, we have never referred to them as stupid. However, I would like to reiterate the poll that was done a couple weeks ago by the guy from Bismarck that said that only 6 out of 77 people who responded to the poll knew that the state of ND did not collect property taxes. Doesn’t prove they are stupid. Just proves that they believe what the people on TV say, whether it is true or false. If everyone would have known the TRUTHS about measure 1 and 2, they would have both passed. Unfortunately, we got outspent 15-1. Hey, ask your buddy Puzzle feet what percentage of his property taxes goes to the state. I bet he gets it wrong too.

  • http://www.valleydeals.com/cgi-bin/board2/YaBB.pl Kevin

    Personally, I’d be more than happy to challenge Jack Zaleski to a debate about fiscal issues in North Dakota. I’d even make my radio show available as a venue.

    When Jack did radio with Scott Hennen, he would giggle like a school girl whenever he got backed into a corner and even though callers were introduced by name, Jack would always sanctimoniously refer to them as “caller” instead of their name.

  • puzzlefeet

    Rob writes:

    I didn’t say they were stupid, just that they were duped.

    Obviously, you don’t know the definition of “duped”, look it up and get educated. It is insulting.

    The fact remains, the measure had errors, signature gatherers were charged with fraudulently gathering signatures and the measure was overwhelmingly defeated.

    So now the group changes its name but the players are still the same.

    While I may have disagreed with how the Rs have funded certain programs in ND, they certainly can’t be accused of overspending. The voters clearly like the government they are getting otherwise there would have been a change. That you can’t get the voters to see things your way is not the voters being duped; it is you (plural) who the voters are rejecting.

    The citizens weren’t buying what you were trying to sell them. It might be helpful next time to actually ask them what they think, not just do what you want to do thinking they’ll support you. You thought the taxpayers would jump at the thought of a 50% tax cut but failed to read the taxpayers and what they wanted.

    You have found that out on more than one occasion now and still refuse to assess what went wrong. Keep trying to sell the same thing, Rob.

    People have watched what fiscal conservatives have done to this country over the last 8 years and they rejected you and your cronies. So you can start up another group with another name and try to put new lipstick on the same old pig, but it’s still the same old pig with new lipstick.

    Oh, and I’m not taking a victory lap, just pointing out what you refuse to recognize.

  • puzzlefeet

    wlegend14, please feel free to post the analysis. I find it interesting that this was your conclusion; that the voters were lied to.

    Could it be that the bad press you got for the errors in the measure and the fact that your group blamed the AG and the SOS for not fixing your problem was part of the reason you lost so badly?

    Could it be that the some of the signatures were fraudulently gathered with criminal charges filed against the signature gatherers was part of the reason you lost so badly?

    Could it be that the voters didn’t think that an income tax cut was their priority?

    How does all this fit into your analysis? It’s just easier to claim the voters were “duped”, “deceived” or “lied to” or that you were out spent.

    I don’t hear the opponents of the Workers Comp measure claiming the voters were duped or deceived or lied to or outspent when they were beaten soundly.

    But the voters were duped, deceived and lied to on Measure 2.

    Sounds like you should reanalyze your analysis, buddy.

  • robert108

    Rob: Don’t you know that dissent, advocacy and organizing can only be done by lefties? I remember Hillary shrieking that it is our patriotic duty to dissent, but she wasn’t referring to Real Americans, only to the leftie political followers. Shame on you! /sarcasm

  • puzzlefeet

    Rob, you can advocate and organize all you want. No one is saying you can’t. But if the citizens don’t think that what you are advocating or organizing around is in their best interests, they won’t vote for anything you put on the ballot. Period. The only one calling you a plebe is you!

    The point you are missing is that you refuse to even analyze what why your measures failed. You cling to the belief that the citizens were duped. As long as you continue to believe this then all your measures will continue to fail.

    I think the debate is now in the legislature and if you all feel so strongly, then I would think that you would be at the legislative hearings testifying against the budgets.

  • wlegend14

    Could it be that the bad press you got for the errors in the measure and the fact that your group blamed the AG and the SOS for not fixing your problem was part of the reason you lost so badly?

    We never blamed the SOS and the AG for the errors in the measure. We made the mistake. It was clear of the intent of the language for the ballot, but due to the mistakes, the AG decided it would have to go on the ballot as is. We offered to work with the SOS to get it corrected, we had legislators willing to correct it after it got voted on, and we fought dilligently to simplify the language.

    Could it be that the some of the signatures were fraudulently gathered with criminal charges filed against the signature gatherers was part of the reason you lost so badly?

    Yes, we publicly denounced the two HIRED signature collectors, who had nothing to do with AFP or any of us for that matter. They were youngsters who were being paid by the signature, and they chose to deceive, not us.

    Could it be that the voters didn’t think that an income tax cut was their priority?

    Seriously??? A tax cut is a tax cut. This would have guaranteed them a tax cut. Now, because of the lies that the opponents told, they will have to have the legislature try to dream up some scheme to cover for the ridiculous spending habits of the locally elected officials (bailout???) who are actually responsible for the property taxes being out of control.

    How does all this fit into your analysis? It’s just easier to claim the voters were “duped”, “deceived” or “lied to” or that you were out spent.

    Which of the above reasons would make me vote AGAINST giving myself more money??? If I didn’t know better, I would say the last one. And the only way I would do so, is if I was one of the 71 out of 77 people polled who actually thought that the State was resonsible for property taxes!!

    Any other comments you want me to educate you on?

  • Mike

    I would like to know how Dustin is insulting legislators? The only thing he is insulting is the fact that the Fargo Forum believes that anyone who opposes their opinion is wrong and should cease to exist. What a joke. I think the group that just met in Bismarck should debate the Fargo Forum and the ND Board of Higher Education on television and air it for the whole state to hear. I think they would eat NDBHE and Forum for lunch.

  • http://www.valleydeals.com/cgi-bin/board2/YaBB.pl Kevin

    Jack-the-partisan-hack is just pandering to the education cabal again. Nd’s media monopoly depends on them for a cheap source of show material and column inches.

  • puzzlefeet

    Oh, credibility has everything to do with a campaign. Once a campaign loses its credibility, the citizens will soundly defeat it.

    for you to insist, that the campaign didn’t lose its credibility is ludicrous. Let’s see, the campaign attacked the AG and SOS because they wouldn’t fix the errors.

    Then you had a big press conference with some legislators saying the legislators would fix the errors.

    Then two of your signature gatherers are arrested.

    It’s hard to get your message out with all the negative stuff within the campaign going on.

    If you want to believe that you lost only 13 votes, so be it.

    Changing the name of the group won’t fix the credibility problems you will have the next time around.

  • http://www.valleydeals.com/cgi-bin/board2/YaBB.pl Kevin

    the state is laying off government workers in droves to cut costs.

    Has that ever actually happened?

  • wlegend14

    I guarantee credibility had next to nothing to do with the election. We may have lost 13 votes because of that. Unfortunately, people believe everything on TV and we could not compete with 1/2 a million dollars spent by special interest groups who don’t care about the taxpayers, just themselves. It’s funny how you and others like you instantly attack the credibility of anyone who opposes your ideas. I welcome opposition, but unfortunately, I have morals and won’t lie to people to get my way. I tell the truth, unlike your side.

  • puzzlefeet

    Here:

    They simply bought a lie they were sold (by the Forum editorial board, among others) about income tax relief meaning no property tax relief.

    Of course you’re blaming others, you blame the forum for perpetuating some kind of lie, you blame the citizens for buying the lie.

    Geesh, Rob, wake up, you adamantly refuse to take a look at what went wrong with the measure. But then, why should I care? As long as you continue to blame others for your loss, you will never get a measure passed. Just continue to call the voters dumb for not seeing things your way.

    It’s not scary to me at all. I am reminded of the saying that becames so popular during the last election:

    You can put lipstick on a pig…..but it’s still a pig!

    That’s what the Forum was saying and they are right!

  • puzzlefeet

    Once you let go of your anger, maybe you can look a bit more objectively at the editorial. Getting all emotional just shows how bitter you are at your loss on Measure 2.

    Insulting the taxpayers of North Dakota because they didn’t support Measure 2 certainly won’t buy you any more supporters. Perhaps you should take a look at your own house first before attacking the taxpayers.

    For instance, why start a new group? It just looks as if this Dustin fellow is looking for a job and can’t find one so he creates a new “think tank” and group and tries to get donations from “mostly North Dakotans.”

    It’s not the Forum who put a measure on the ballot that the North Dakota citizens rejected overwhelmingly. It was the job of the group that put the measure on the ballot to convince the citizens that it was the right thing to do. Dustin and his group failed miserably in at effort. To blame the citizens for buying a lie, is downright insulting to the citizens.

    Perhaps you should take a closer look at what happened and why it happened the way it did and learn from it instead of calling the ND citizens dumb for buying a “lie”.

    I know if makes your defeat easier to swallow by blaming everyone else but it won’t make you attempt next time around work if you continue to blame others for your defeat.

    Oh, and the Forum didn’t say that fiscal conservatism was goofy.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    But the voters were duped, deceived and lied to on Measure 2.
    Sounds like you should reanalyze your analysis, buddy.

    And? Voters are lied to on every ballot. Some buy it. Sometimes a majority. Sometimes a minority.

    You aren’t able to make a point.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    That’s an insult? Suggesting that the taxpayers were received?

    That’s no insult. I didn’t say they were stupid, just that they were duped.

    Honestly, you really have to stretch to spin this don’t you?

    And we’ll see how wrong we fiscal conservatives are when the tax revenues dry up and the state is laying off government workers in droves to cut costs.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Rob, you can advocate and organize all you want. No one is saying you can’t. But if the citizens don’t think that what you are advocating or organizing around is in their best interests, they won’t vote for anything you put on the ballot. Period.

    Well gee, thanks for the warning Puzzled, but I think I’ll do what I think is right rather than being a sheep.

    The point you are missing is that you refuse to even analyze what why your measures failed. You cling to the belief that the citizens were duped. As long as you continue to believe this then all your measures will continue to fail.

    North Dakotans sure as heck didn’t vote against measure 2 because they didn’t want property tax relief.

    What did every single opponent of any significance say against measure 2? That it would stop property tax relief.

    So when I say that’s why the people voted against measure 2, I’m right. That’s what you opponents told the people, and the people believed you.

    Now you’re in the unenviable position of having to explain why we’re not going to get any property tax either.

    I think the debate is now in the legislature and if you all feel so strongly, then I would think that you would be at the legislative hearings testifying against the budgets.

    Who says I won’t be, day job permitting?

    Heck, I just got my press credentials for the session in the mail today.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Personally, I’d be more than happy to challenge Jack Zaleski to a debate about fiscal issues in North Dakota. I’d even make my radio show available as a venue.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Insulting the taxpayers of North Dakota because they didn’t support Measure 2 certainly won’t buy you any more supporters.

    Can you please indicate to me where I insulted the taxpayers of North Dakota?

    For instance, why start a new group? It just looks as if this Dustin fellow is looking for a job and can’t find one so he creates a new “think tank” and group and tries to get donations from “mostly North Dakotans.”

    Dustin is engaged in public advocacy. Do we really need a why? Should we maybe run our ideas by you elitists before we have our say? Maybe we should get the Jack Zaleski Stamp of Approval before we engage in free speech.

    It’s not the Forum who put a measure on the ballot that the North Dakota citizens rejected overwhelmingly. It was the job of the group that put the measure on the ballot to convince the citizens that it was the right thing to do. Dustin and his group failed miserably in at effort. To blame the citizens for buying a lie, is downright insulting to the citizens.

    Again, where are you getting this insulting the citizens stuff? The public voted the measure do. Fine. Take your victory lap. But they did it because they were lied to. They were told if they voted for income tax relief they wouldn’t get property tax relief. Now they’ll likely get neither, and the Forum was absolutely in on that deception.

    I know if makes your defeat easier to swallow by blaming everyone else but it won’t make you attempt next time around work if you continue to blame others for your defeat.

    We’re not blaming others. We’re just noting why we lost. We lost because the public was duped by a faux-conservative Governor and a coalition of the sort of special interests groups that line up in Bismarck every session with their hands out for more tax dollars.

    We’re back to the drawing board. We’re organizing. We’re engaging in the democratic process.

    It’s a little shocking that this is so scary to people like you and Zaleski. Certainly we here on the right don’t feel so threatened when the liberals do it.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    So because one ballot measure lost we should just give up on the cause of fiscal conservatism?

    Did you give up on liberalism when Al Gore lost? Or when John Kerry lost?

    Give me a break.

    Gloat now if you want to, but we’re right. We have got to limit the burden government is to the taxpayers if we want to prosper. There’s no getting around that simple truth.

    And we’re going to have our say, as much as you and Jack Zaleski may bemoan the fact that we plebes get to say what we want.

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