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Monday, September 25, 2006

Falwell Calls Hillary Clinton The Devil

Seems to be a lot of this going around lately.

RICHMOND, Va. - The Rev. Jerry Falwell acknowledged on Sunday saying that if Hillary Rodham Clinton were the Democrats’ presidential nominee in 2008, it would motivate conservative evangelical Christians to oppose her more than if the devil himself were running.

Falwell said in a telephone interview that his comments to several hundred pastors and religious activists at the “Value Voter Summit” conference were “totally tongue-in-cheek.”

“I certainly hope that Hillary is the candidate,” Falwell said at a breakfast session Friday in Washington. “I hope she’s the candidate, because nothing will energize my (constituency) like Hillary Clinton,” he said. “If Lucifer ran, he wouldn’t.”

This from the Clinton camp was sort of interesting.

Clinton press secretary Philippe Reines said Sunday, “Working for someone who believes in the Golden Rule, we’re not going to engage in such vitriolic discourse — but it seems that a new low has been reached in demonizing political opponents.”

So Hillary finds vitriolic discourse distasteful, eh?  Well that certainly didn’t stop her from fund raising with Harry Belafonte, who once called President Bush the “greatest terrorist in the world” while down in Venezuela supporting Hugo Chavez’s socialist revolution.

I guess vitriol does have a place in politics for Hillary, as long as it is aimed at her political opponents.

Also, funny how this somewhat dumb comment from Falwell gets all sorts of press yet people like Cindy Sheehan and Belafonte telling the world that the President is worse than Osama bin Laden gets scant attention.

Comments

Avatar for Ken McCracken

And Falwell wonders why he is irrelevant these days?

Ken McCracken on September 25, 2006 at 05:13 am

Falwell didn’t call Clinton the devil. He only said that she would motivate the base more than the devil would.

Big difference!

likwidshoe on September 25, 2006 at 05:27 am
Avatar for Mickey

As bad as Hillary may be, she will never go to Hell.
Satan doesn’t want the competition.

Mickey on September 25, 2006 at 05:34 am
Avatar for HG

Also, funny how this somewhat dumb comment from Falwell gets all sorts of press yet people like Cindy Sheehan and Belafonte telling the world that the President is worse than Osama bin Laden gets scant attention

Maybe Bill Clinton could explain why the MSM coverage would favor the left so.

HG on September 25, 2006 at 06:43 am

I agree with likwid; he didn’t call her the devil.  Sorry.  The statement he did make was right on target, though.  The Dems never want to hear the truth about themselves, which explains the smear.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 06:48 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

WHAT a coincidence, I was on vacation over the weekend in southern Virginia and exprerienced a similar comment from some Christians that just happen to be the parent of the girl I’m datin.  I was more along the line of Falwell said days after 9-11 ..

aNONOMISLY on September 25, 2006 at 07:28 am
Avatar for Bat One

As bad as Hillary may be, she will never go to Hell.

She’s not going to be President either.  Personally I look for AlGore to get the party’s nomination in ‘08… the same AlGore who couldn’t win his own home state as a sitting VP in 2000 (or President Clinton’s), and couldn’t win Florida even when his guys were tossing out overseas military absentee ballots.

Hillary may wind up with all the money, but she won’t get even the nomination… much less the presidency.

Bat One on September 25, 2006 at 07:53 am
Avatar for Robert Perry

Like others have noted, Falwell doesn’t call Hillary the devil, but rather simply uses the same idea as did Churchhill when he noted that if Hitler had attacked Hell, he’d at least put a good word in for “Old Scratch” in Parliament.

So Falwell might be rebuked for clumsiness & hyperbole, but his detractors here are just as silly for ignoring a grand tradition of political insult.

Robert Perry on September 25, 2006 at 08:35 am
Avatar for Jaxebad

Winston Churchill is not comparible to Jerry Falwell (the same guy who implied that the USA deserved 9/11). Nor is Hillary Clinton comparable to Hitler.

Jaxebadd

Jaxebad on September 25, 2006 at 08:52 am

Robert: According to the MSM, only Dems may use political insult.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 08:52 am

Winston Churchill is not comparible to Jerry Falwell…

He is in this case.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 08:54 am
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

Both extremes o nthe right and the left are showing the same flaw, both live to dish it out, neither can take it. and the mad rampant plarisation goes on at a fast clip. Both Party’s could take a tip from Robert’s Rules of Order, “He that resorts to profanity or insult direct has abandoned the discourse of legitamate debate and thus has lost the argument.

SergeantHeretic on September 25, 2006 at 09:00 am
Avatar for ellinas

The Rev. Jerry Falwell acknowledged on Sunday saying that if Hillary Rodham Clinton were the Democrats’ presidential nominee in 2008, it would motivate conservative evangelical Christians to oppose her more than if the devil himself were running.
Wow. The devil himself has a bettter standing with evangelical christians then some US citizens.
What a pitty.

ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 09:11 am
Avatar for Zsa Zsa

IF he did??? Bless his heart, he finally getting something right!…

Zsa Zsa on September 25, 2006 at 09:13 am
Avatar for ellinas

Winston Churchill is not comparible to Jerry Falwell…
He is in this case.
robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Sometimes I wonder about you Robert.
He is not. Not now, not ever.

ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 09:15 am

ellinas: No, one particular US citizen: Hillary Clinton.

Sarge:

Both extremes o nthe right and the left are showing the same flaw…

However, the extreme lefties are now running the National Dem Party.  Big difference.  They are also running the MSM.  Another big difference.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 09:17 am

ellinas: The similarity of the statements from the two men is the subject here.  Nice try at distraction, though.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 09:20 am
Avatar for ellinas

Do you Robert think that Hillary is worse than the devil?
It speaks volumes about the evangelicals if they place Hillary above the devil. They have, imo, their priorities mixed up.

ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 09:32 am

ellinas: Did you read what he said?  He said that Hillary running would energize his constituency more than if the devil was running.  I think he’s right.  That would definitely happen.
What I think about Hillary is irrelevant to this discussion.  There is no way to depose the devil, but we can consign Hillary to political obscurity.  Think about it.
BTW, no one is “placing Hillary above the devil...”, you just made that up.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 09:37 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

Jerry Falwell (the same guy who implied that the USA deserved 9/11).

FALSE. Jerry Falwell has never said nor implied that the USA deserved 9/11.

aNONOMISLY on September 25, 2006 at 09:38 am

aNON: Thanks for the truth.  It was an irrelevant attempt at smear, anyway.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 09:40 am

If Falwell had compared Shrillary with the Devil I would not be the only conservative asking Falwell to shut the ‘F’ up.

That’s just one of the the differences between us and them.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on September 25, 2006 at 09:41 am

Given a choice between Hillary and the devil, I know who I’d rather dance with…

The devil.

That would be intense man.

Think about it.

likwidshoe on September 25, 2006 at 09:47 am

I thought the devil as a boy.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on September 25, 2006 at 09:48 am

I thought the devil as a boy.

Pffft.

That don’t matter.

I’ve battled with a lot of people. 9 out of 10 times it was against other guys.

likwidshoe on September 25, 2006 at 09:50 am
Avatar for WOOF

Forget Hillary, what’s the over/under tonight?
1kx5.jpg

WOOF on September 25, 2006 at 10:02 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

If Falwell had compared Shrillary with the Devil I would not be the only conservative asking Falwell to shut the ‘F’ up.

That’s just one of the the differences between us and them.

It would have been much worst than merely comparing Hillary to the Devil, had Falwell seriously meant what he said. However, I believe he was been facetious; He didn’t really mean what he said.

What he said was that his type of Christians would be more motivated in voting against Hitler from running this country than they would be in voting agaisnt the Devil from running this country:

“I certainly hope that Hillary is the candidate,” Falwell said at a breakfast session Friday in Washington. “I hope she’s the candidate, because nothing will energize my (constituency) like Hillary Clinton,” he said. “If Lucifer ran, he wouldn’t.”

That would be not just talking lowly of Hillary but also speaking very lowly of his Chrisitan base too. Had he meant what he said, he would have been passing a very bad judgement about his Christian base. -It would be like calling his entire base un-Christian, which is something I know Falwell wouldn’t do such a thing in earnest. Hence, I believe Falwell when he says that he really didn’t mean what he said about his Christian base.

aNONOMISLY on September 25, 2006 at 10:22 am

aNON: “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."-S. Freud

Everyone is trying to read too much into this.  His statement is obviously true on the face of it.  Anyone could have made the same observation.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 10:33 am
Avatar for Ed Sommers

God grant me freedom from your believers.

Ed Sommers on September 25, 2006 at 10:33 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

..oops, sorry for the “Freudan slip”!

aNONOMISLY on September 25, 2006 at 10:35 am

Ed Sommers said, God grant me freedom from your believers.

Bye! You don’t have to stick around. Complain about Christians, ignore the Islamic threat, stick your head back into the sand, and bounce Ed! We won’t miss you.

likwidshoe on September 25, 2006 at 11:56 am
Avatar for ellinas

aNONOMISLY on September 25, 2006 at 01:38 pm Jerry Falwell (the same guy who implied that the USA deserved 9/11).
FALSE. Jerry Falwell has never said nor implied that the USA deserved 9/11.
This is what Falwell said on 9-11:  “The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say: you helped this happen.”

ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 02:39 pm
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

aNONOMISLY on September 25, 2006 at 01:38 pm Jerry Falwell (the same guy who implied that the USA deserved 9/11).
FALSE. Jerry Falwell has never said nor implied that the USA deserved 9/11.
This is what Falwell said on 9-11:  “The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say: you helped this happen.”

Now call me kooky, but when someone says the preceding, there are in fact saying that America deserved what happed because we don’t go along in lockstep with some churchboys little vision of how things ought to be.

The United States of America is a Secular Representative Republic devoid of any state mandated religion and I am glad of that, It is the primary reason I would happily die for her to keep that the case.

Jerry Falwell=Wrong

Hillery Clinton=Wrong

End of comment.

SergeantHeretic on September 25, 2006 at 03:29 pm
Avatar for Ed Sommers

You’re right, buddy. I don’t have to stick around.
But I will because it’s my country too. My head is not in the sand. I don’t trust the crazy Muslims. I also don’t trust any other crazy religionists. They are all “holier than thou”, they are all irrational, and in my opinion, they are all dangerous. For my part, every variety of zealot ought to draw straws and divide up the country. The crazy Muslims win one region. The crazy Christians win a different region. The crazy Jews win yet a different region. Then a region should be awarded to those who believe in god, but who practice rational, tolerant, reasonable behavior. That group, along with agnostics, athiests and other rational human beings of all ages, all races, all sexual orientations—they get to live together. When we have elections, either the Democrats will win and the country will continue to exist, or the Republicans will win and the world will end when people who the Republicans have taught to hate America decide it’s time to drop a nuke on us. If you and I were to survive that, I’d say “I told you so”. However, neither of us will be here to have that conversation. Amen, brother.

Ed Sommers on September 25, 2006 at 03:38 pm
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

I have a better Idea, let’s try thins, everyone that’s on board with the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Civil rights can stay. Everyone who thinks it’s neat to force their beliefes on everyone else can get the heck out. How does that sound?

SergeantHeretic on September 25, 2006 at 03:50 pm
Avatar for Zsa Zsa

Did Falwell smell sulphur too? He who smelt it dealt it. OR, at least that is what I have always heard?

Zsa Zsa on September 25, 2006 at 03:56 pm
Avatar for Bat One

For my part, every variety of zealot ought to draw straws and divide up the country. The crazy Muslims win one region. The crazy Christians win a different region. The crazy Jews win yet a different region. Then a region should be awarded to those who believe in god, but who practice rational, tolerant, reasonable behavior.

An interesting idea, Ed.  So, who gets to decide which Muslims are crazy?  How about the Christians and the Jews… who decides which of those get segregated and which ones get to live with all you good, decent rational folks?  You, Ed?  Are you the one to tell the rest of uus who is a zealot and who isn’t?

Helluva burden you’re assuming, there, with no discernable justification.

Bat One on September 25, 2006 at 04:10 pm
Avatar for Ed Sommers

Bat -

Here’s the test: If you’ll kill yourself because you believe in god, you’re crazy. If you’ll kill me because you believe in god, you’re crazy.

How’s that for practicality ?

Ed Sommers on September 25, 2006 at 04:16 pm

How about if I kill you because you are trampling on American’s Constitutional rights? Which camp do I fall in then?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 25, 2006 at 04:56 pm

Ed: So, you think segregation is the answer?  Welcome to the Dem Party of the Fifties.

Bat: So, the Branch Davidians, who were out in the middle of nowhere(ever been to Waco?) and who weren’t bothering anyone(except the Clinton Administration) were just as crazy as the terrorist who bother lots of people, because they believed(correctly) that they were going to be killed because of their faith?  Strange.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 05:04 pm
Avatar for Anarchist Vegan: Dead Man's Chest

How about if I kill you because you are trampling on American’s Constitutional rights? Which camp do I fall in then?--2Hotel9

Psycho, I think they get Texas under Ed’s plan.

Anarchist Vegan: Dead Man's Chest on September 25, 2006 at 05:07 pm

Just being practical. You got to know what you are willing to kill for. You have already said you will kill for nothing, not even your own self defence. Places you well towards the bottom of the food chain. Just above mold, right below amoebas.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 25, 2006 at 05:14 pm
Avatar for ellinas

How about if I kill you because you are trampling on American’s Constitutional rights? Which camp do I fall in then? 2Hotel9
You fall under the nut camp.

ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 05:18 pm

Correction. Just above ellinas, right below amoebas.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 25, 2006 at 05:20 pm
Avatar for ellinas

aNON: Thanks for the truth.  It was an irrelevant attempt at smear, anyway.
robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 01:40 pm
Truth is Falwell did blame americans for 9-11 contrary to your denials. Robert, please stop being an apologist for idiots.

ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 05:23 pm
Avatar for Joe Riley

“He that resorts to profanity or insult direct has abandoned the discourse of legitamate debate and thus has lost the argument.

There are always exceptions to the rules

Joe Riley on September 25, 2006 at 05:25 pm
Avatar for ellinas

Hello 2hotel9. How are you darling?
You know I tamed a shrew before.
I think there is hope for you.

ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 05:26 pm

ellinas: I never apologized for anyone, so I guess that makes me a non-apologist, really.  Falwell drew a parallel between the sins of some Americans and the consequence of 9/11.  He was very specific about the sinful actions, and so didn’t “blame America(or Americans in general) for 9/11.  When you want to smear someone, try to be accurate, or you just look silly.  I don’t subscribe to Falwell’s beliefs, btw.
On another blog I frequent, someone made the statement that Bill Clinton was directly responsible for 9/11, and I said, since Clinton could not have known the specific consequences of his refusing to take OBL, he simply enabled 9/11 as one of the possible consequences of OBL being able to plan and execute it. I’m certainly no apologist for Clinton, but the truth is the truth, no matter who says it.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 05:36 pm
Avatar for Ed Sommers

Some of you are scary. You’re so ready to kill. Kill someone who’s “trampling on you constitutional rights”. Which right are you worried about? The right to be a fool? The right to be irrational? The right to hate people who disagree with you? Guess what—when you die, you’ll be dead for a long time. There should be no hurry to attain death, and no hurry to usher another human being to his or her death. You can count on meeting people who disagree with you. See if you can control your macho BS and let those folks live a while longer, Killer.

Ed Sommers on September 25, 2006 at 05:37 pm
Avatar for Joe Riley

Do you Robert think that Hillary is worse than the devil?
ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 06:39 pm

Do you think John Murtha is worse that intergalactic rurer Xenon?

The more important question would be: How many angels can fit on the head of a pin?

Now that’s damn important!

Joe Riley on September 25, 2006 at 05:39 pm

ellinas: Here’s why the smear of Falwell by misstating what he said was irrelevant to the thread: If what he said was true(about his constituency being energized by Hillary running for Pres), then it was true, and nothing else he might have said on some other subject is relevant to the truth of that particular statement about Hillary’s candidacy and it’s effect on the voters.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 05:40 pm

Bat: Sorry, I thought you said what Ed really said.  It makes more sense that it would come from him.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 05:43 pm
Avatar for ellinas

Robert please read Falwell’s statement.
“The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say: you helped this happen.”
This is an accusation. There are no paralels drawn here.
You are runing paralel with the truth on this one. You are playing fast and loose with the truth and not withstanding your denial you are an apologist for Falwel in this case. Maybe you don’t realise it.

ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 05:51 pm

ellinas: If you add all those groups together, since there is some overlap between them, you are talking about maybe 25% of the American public.  How is that “blaming America”?  Your statement about what he said is hyperbole.

..bear some burden…

… you helped this happen…

Sounds like he’s asking them to take responsibility for their actions. 

I don’t realize it because it’s not true; your accusation, that is.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 06:03 pm
Avatar for Bat One

Robert108,

No apology necessary.  We both know better.

Ed,

Are you quite sure your blood pressure prescription is current?  That would seem to be an enormous burden you’re carrying around, determining right and wrong for everyone.  Not that anyone else takes you seriously, but you really don’t seem to be up to the responsibility of it all.

Bat One on September 25, 2006 at 07:35 pm
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

Go far enough to the left and you’re a Comunist, go far enough to the right and you’re a Fascist, Some choice. Me I’ll stick with being a raging moderate.

SergeantHeretic on September 25, 2006 at 07:45 pm

Joe Riley:

Do you think John Murtha is worse that intergalactic rurer Xenon?

I’m not sure, but I do believe that Superman could kick Batman’s ass.

I’m just sayin’

Carrick on September 25, 2006 at 07:45 pm
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

Superman=brawn
Batman=brains

$200 on Batman

SergeantHeretic on September 25, 2006 at 07:47 pm

ed, you really are just not especially intelligent, are you? You toddle in here slinging rhetorical hyperbole and when anyone slings it back at you, you come all unhinged. Just like ellinas. You two ought to get along just fine. So toddle on back to Daily Kos and DU where your stupidity is the norm. And E is correct, Falwell did place blame on specific groups, and actions, of Americans. Curiously these are the same groups and action the Wahabi Deathculters cite as the reasons for attacking western culture and its citizens. Go figure?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 26, 2006 at 01:49 am
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

Jerry Falwell is a very wealthy very self rightous very educationaly narrow man who condemns anything and anyone that is not like him and when he tries to claim that the Enemy is different from the radical religious right, I have to point out that at this point it’s a tough sell.

SergeantHeretic on September 26, 2006 at 03:38 am
Avatar for Bezu Fache

This is an accusation. There are no parallels drawn here. You are running parallel with the truth on this one. You are playing fast and loose with the truth and not withstanding your denial you are an apologist for Falwel in this case. Maybe you don’t realize it.
ellinas on September 25, 2006 at 09:51 pm


ellinas: If you add all those groups together, since there is some overlap between them, you are talking about maybe 25% of the American public.  How is that “blaming America”?  Your statement about what he said is hyperbole. ..bear some burden…
… you helped this happen…Sounds like he’s asking them to take responsibility for their actions.  I don’t realize it because it’s not true; your accusation, that is.
robert108 on September 25, 2006 at 10:03 pm

I can’t believe I’m going to agree with ellinas, but right is right.
He blamed “Americans” Robert not “America.”

It doesn’t matter what “percentage” of the population he was talking about Robert; that’s ridiculous. Why do you always split hairs down to the level of Quarks?
He said that Americans (abortionists, gays, etc.) made God mad (God won’t be mocked) and that was a big part of the reason that God let the attack happen. Implying directly that God was teaching us- “All Americans” a lesson.
I agree with you most of the time, but I do expect you to adhere to the precepts of intellectual honesty. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander .

Bezu Fache on September 26, 2006 at 03:40 am
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

Isn’t it strange how people like Elinias and Falwell can claim to love American yet they clearly cannot stand other Americans and every action and word from them bespeaks of their rejection of America’s essential diversity. They rail against us for not being like them and going along in lockstep with their wishes and then have the huevos to try and blame us for the actoins of their fellow religious dogmatists.

There is one group responsible for 911 Reverend falwell AND Elinias it is called Al Qaida (pronounced El Kaweda) They are the enemy BECAUSE they do not like People who are different from them and attack us for being different, and guess what Fallwell and all those like him attack us in word if not in deed for precisely the same reason.

SergeantHeretic on September 26, 2006 at 03:51 am

Sgt H:

Go far enough to the left and you’re a Comunist, go far enough to the right and you’re a Fascist, Some choice.

No the fascists were akin to the Socialists.  The key difference is that they thought they could better the plight of the workingman by regulating every part of economic life.  I would imagine that this system would be more effective than Communism as it did allow for the ownership of private enterprises.

So on a scale from middle to left, fascism and Communisms would be two branches off of the track, but equally to the left.

By the way do you have any idea what the acronym NAZI stood for?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on September 26, 2006 at 03:53 am
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

NAzi+ Mational Socialist,

This notwithstanding, I would point out the the People’s republic of China is neither formed of the people not are they a Republic.

Calling yourself something does not make it so.

Such is true of the National “Socialists, given that everything they did and stood for was decidedly anti social.

SergeantHeretic on September 26, 2006 at 05:33 am

It was socialists as the government had the power to dictate all facets of life.

Certainly not the limited government that conservatives believe in.

By the way, not every Republican is a conservative.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on September 26, 2006 at 06:55 am
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

Dictating all facets of life? oh, you mean like trying to tell me how to pray and who to make love with and what to read and what to listen to and telling me that Questioning the Govenment is unAmerican and demanding nothing less than sychophantic lickspittle obedience to the present Administration?

Brother, if that’s “Conservetiveism” then you can have it.

And by the way the Liberal left can go soak their heads too, while I’m on the subject.

Bottom line people, Government has no place treating adult citizens as if they are children and to both groups it is absolutely shamefull of you to exploit your children in the effort to dominate me.

SergeantHeretic on September 26, 2006 at 07:13 am

...as it did allow for the ownership of private enterprises.

Ownership in name only.  If you have no control over your capital, it ain’t free enterprise.
In German, “national” is spelled “nazional”, thus the “Nazi”.  If you want to know that the Nazis were socialists, look to their car, the Volkswagen, which means “peoples’ car” in German.  The only differences between fascism and communism/socialism is political.  The two groups fought each other over domination of the population.  It was a power struggle between two political groups.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 07:21 am

Dictating all facets of life? oh, you mean like trying to tell me how to pray and who to make love with and what to read and what to listen to and telling me that Questioning the Govenment is unAmerican and demanding nothing less than sychophantic lickspittle obedience to the present Administration?

This is an overheated paranoid fantasy.  Nobody is breaking down your front door and forcing you to do anything in this country.  Get a grip.  You are just pouting because those who don’t buy your lifestyle have the freedom to tell you what they think.  You want censorship of all ideas that disagree with you.
The real dangerous one are those who have “sycophantic lickspittle obedience” to Marxist ideology that doesn’t allow any dissent.  Thank God every day that you live in the US, instead of whining like a baby.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 07:25 am
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

Oh, here we go, here comes the passive agressive conservative trip. you tell me I should be glad to live in a country that has freedom of speech now be a good girl and do as I’m told.

Give me a break.

SergeantHeretic on September 26, 2006 at 07:59 am

...now be a good girl and do as I’m told.

You made that up all by yourself.  Very revealing.  Stop whining and be a man.
Don’t use psychological terms if you don’t know what they mean.  It makes you appear foolish.

“It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 08:02 am
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

no, you do ME a favor and stop serving as the apologist for Moral Majority control freaks and religious demagouges

SergeantHeretic on September 26, 2006 at 08:07 am

So what are you serving as an apologist for?
BTW, do you have anything substantive?  Your no-content personal attack style is boring.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 08:11 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

I said:

aNONOMISLY on September 25, 2006 at 01:38 pm Jerry Falwell (the same guy who implied that the USA deserved 9/11).
FALSE. Jerry Falwell has never said nor implied that the USA deserved 9/11.

ellina replied:

This is what Falwell said on 9-11:  “The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say: you helped this happen.”

ellina let me first state that I’m not a fan of Falwell nor of Southern Babtist Convention, specially given the form its origin and the history of its founders:

The Southern Baptist Convention was formed May 8-12, 1845 in Augusta, Georgia. Its first president was William Bullein Johnson (1782-1862), who was president of the Triennial Convention in 1841. The immediate, though not only, cause was the controversy over slavery between Northerners and Southerners within the Triennial Convention and the Home Mission Society.

Though the bodies were theoretically neutral, some Baptists in the South did not believe the assurances of neutrality. They knew several leaders were engaged in abolitionist activity. To test this, Georgia Baptists recommended James E. Reeve, a slaveholder, to the Home Mission Society as a missionary in the South. The Society did not appoint Reeve, presumably not on the basis of his being a slaveholder, but because the Georgia Baptists wished his appointment specifically because he was a slaveholder. Baptists from the South subsequently broke from this organization and formed the new convention.

The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) of 1995 voted June 20 to adopt a resolution renouncing its racist roots and apologizing for its past defense of slavery. The SBC was founded in 1845 in Augusta, Georgia, by Baptists in the South seceding from the national Triennial Convention of Baptists after that body decreed it would not appoint slaveholders as missionaries. A survey by the Home Mission Board in 1968 showed that only eleven percent of Southern Baptist churches would admit Americans of African descent (The American Baptist Convention and the Civil Rights Movement: Rhetoric and Response, Dana Martin, 1999, page 44). The racism resolution marked the denomination’s first formal acknowledgment that racism played a role in its founding.

Another issue that disturbed the churches in the south was the perception that the American Baptist Home Mission Society (org. 1832) did not appoint a proportionate number of missionaries to the southern region of the U. S.

It is also evident that Baptists north and south preferred a different type of denominational organization: the Baptists in the north as a whole preferred a loosely structured society composed of individuals who paid annual dues, with each society usually focused on a single ministry, while the southern churches preferred an organization composed of churches patterned after their associations, with a variety of ministries brought under the direction of one denominational organization.

aNONOMISLY on September 26, 2006 at 10:43 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

now on the following comment, which Falwell made right after 9-11:

After the September 11, 2001 attacks Falwell said on the 700 Club, “I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say ‘you helped this happen.”

(to which Robertson concurred). [18] After heavy criticism, Falwell apologised. [19]. As for homosexuality, Falwell remarked, “AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals.” Falwell’s ghostwriter Mel White said Jerry Falwell remarked about gay protesters, “Thank God for these gay demonstrators. If I didn’t have them, I’d have to invent them. They give me all the publicity I need.”

He is obviously not saying America deserved this. Given the fact he believes God to be the Almighty, what it seems to me he was saying is that God allowed the attack as a manifestation of his anger toward the Americans me menssioned. He’s blaming those he menssioned for angering God to the point where he allowed the attacks to go through. God been the Almighty, one can even argue Falwell comment may mean God sent the Jihadist himself, as a manifestation of his anger toward Gays, the ACLU etc.

I do find that line of believe very disturbing, in fact the mother of a girl I’m dating from southern Virginia sincing her daughter was moving away from her religion gave us a similar subtle warning over the weekend as we were getting ready to live their house and go to the shore.

As we were heading out the door she reminded her it was no coincedence that two of the most liberal cities were the ones attacked on 9-11.  She then went on to remind her that got can do everything and that, as 9-11 shows, he doesn’t really like when we deviate from Him, ..that he very well can punish those that do, as he did the liberal meccas of New York City and Washington D.C. the date of September 11 2001. 

She wasn’t saying the United States deserved it, but was actually trying to say the opposite.  We didn’t but the liberals in New York and D.C, who apperently did deserve this punishment from God, brought it onto us for angering God to the point of where he felt compell enough to sent us this as a “message of warning”.  A warning that we have to get rid of them from within our society or God may just decide to send us an even “greater and direct warnings.”

aNONOMISLY on September 26, 2006 at 10:46 am
Avatar for SergeantHeretic

Ok, Let me get this straight, the capital of our Nation and the Economic locus of our country were attacked, killing almost three thousand people, and the reason it happened is that we don’t live according to some made up “Leave it to Beaver “ Fantasy?

And Falwell wonders why Free thinkers see him as a dangerous crank.

Here’s my take on it if you will.

The United States was toddling along in our merry way living our lives and having a good time when a pack of dust encrusted nutjobs pasted us one because they wanted to scare the crap out of us and make themselves a name.

So we got our own back by nailing them into the sand like a tent peg and now we are in a war against fanatic religious dogmatists for the sake of our freedom.

Then, here comes guys like Jerry falwell who tell us that These total whackjobs didn’t do it by theyselves , oh no, now GOD, Killed three thousand people on a tuesday morning because the almighty gets into a big old snit about who people do do do not get funky with,

Right. Tell you what, Once we beat these foreigne religious dogmatists, we’re gonna have a little talk with the domestic kind about the Bill of rights versus their attempts to control us.

“I prefer the Eastern Religioins because if the Christian bible is to be believed then GOD has the manners and Morals of a spoiled two year old.” Robert Heinlein

SergeantHeretic on September 26, 2006 at 11:25 am

Sarge: You completely misrepresent what Falwell said.  Ike Newton had it right: “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.”
He just reminded all of us that we are responsible for the consequences of our actions.  Frankly, I’m not in any of the groups he mentioned, so what he said doesn’t bother me.  Why does it bother you?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 12:33 pm

Robert 108:

Ownership in name only.  If you have no control over your capital, it ain’t free enterprise.

Thank you for saying it better than I.  I think though that the putative owners of the enterprise would have kept the business up better than if it were under communism.  Of course the commie factory managers and the fascist factory owners both have the opportunity to enrich themselves.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on September 26, 2006 at 12:40 pm

Sounds like her ox got gored to me, r108. It is pretty funny, you invoking Heinlein Joanne. From everything you have posted in this thread you are exactly the type of “citizen” Lazarus Long would have sent to the back of the bus, with a fat lip and a broken arm and the admonition to “sitdown and shutup!”.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 26, 2006 at 12:40 pm

aNON: Thank God for Free Speech, eh?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 12:46 pm
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

aNON: Thank God for Free Speech, eh?

YES, I’m a fan of guaranteed-under-the-constitution Free Speech, ..but what are you getting at?

aNONOMISLY on September 26, 2006 at 12:50 pm

aNON: I thought it was obvious; the woman spoke of her beliefs, and you spoke of yours, I assume.  That would be the Free Speech part.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

aNON: I thought it was obvious; the woman spoke of her beliefs, and you spoke of yours, I assume.  That would be the Free Speech part.

Yeah, her believes.  ..I forgot to mention she’s a very nice lady. ..calling how she treated me “southern hospitality” wouldn’t do it no justice.

...but she did take issue with me “not loving the Lord” anymore, lol.

aNONOMISLY on September 26, 2006 at 01:04 pm

aNON: I can’t find anywhere in the First Amendment any immunity from either criticism or from the responsibility for what you say.  Talking is the easy part; taking responsibility is the tough part, sometimes.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 01:09 pm
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

..she scolded me for it.

aNONOMISLY on September 26, 2006 at 01:12 pm

aNON: OOOOOOH!  I guess if you want to get over with her daughter, you will have to put up with some of that.  Your choice.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 01:15 pm
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

aNON: I can’t find anywhere in the First Amendment any immunity from either criticism or from the responsibility for what you say. 

I’m shocked! ..aren’t you the one always confuring up “free speech” every time I’vre criticized the likes of Pat Robertson and James Kennedy?

aNONOMISLY on September 26, 2006 at 01:17 pm
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

aNON: OOOOOOH!  I guess if you want to get over with her daughter, you will have to put up with some of that.  Your choice.

rob, you’re assuming too much ..

aNONOMISLY on September 26, 2006 at 01:18 pm

aNON:

I’m shocked! ..aren’t you the one always confuring up “free speech” every time I’vre criticized the likes of Pat Robertson and James Kennedy?

Haven’t done any “conjuring” since the Sixties.  If you read the “Jesus Camp” threads, you will see free speech in action, mostly used against the Christians.  I’m just sayin’ that the Christians have the same free speech rights as the haters.  Your criticisms have usually taken the form of wanting to silence them, and that ain’t free speech.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 01:24 pm

aNON, let me clue you in. This chick’s mother who scolded you, that is her in 10 years. Be polite, be considerate, and run like hell. No matter how much Scolding Mother the Younger may deny it, that is what she will become.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 26, 2006 at 01:57 pm
Avatar for Mary

Gandhi once said if Christians lived according to their faith, there would be no Hindus left in India. He knew how powerful the fundamental tenets of Christianity—fighting poverty, caring for the least among us, loving your enemies, eschewing materialism and embracing humility—could be if everyone who called themselves a Christian truly followed them.

Mary on September 26, 2006 at 01:58 pm
Avatar for Mary

Christians cannot afford to endorse anything that is biblically unsound; we’re going to have enough trouble as it is without unsafe teaching passing as what goes for the church these days.
To me it’s pretty simple. Kids are really easy to brainwash. There is a reason every army from the dawn of time has gotten young men to go into battle, their minds are malleable.
If watching this clip doesn’t turn your stomach or cause you to question what they are doing, there is little to nothing I or anyone can say to change your mind, only the Holy Spirit can.
Rick Joyner and company and some of these other mind-manipulators are filling children with visions of worldly glory. I have first hand knowledge of this. They will haul kids in front of “a prophet” who will pump them up with all of “what they will do”…filling them with visions of glory…which is food to a child.
It’s basically this, if you are a prophet, God speaks to you, and you work to do what He wants. You don’t need a cheering section, you don’t need “education on intercessory prayer”…you don’t need all this noise which is used to pump egos into the tasks of their masters.
We are starting to see the divide in the church which will help those who will persecute in the end times.
We have Rick Warren, “why can’t we all get along, but if you don’t agree begone” group, which will link up with others to rid the world of “fundamentalism in all forms”. They will stand in locked-arms with the enemy and not know it to kill and persecute Christians.
We have Christians like those shown in this video giving them fuel, if you can’t see the purposeful similarity between them and the kids of Islam, you are blind.
Meanwhile, those of us walking the narrow path are caught in between.
A friend of mine told me the churches will be full after the rapture, I am really beginning to believe him.
Much that is done in church today is done in the name of Christ, but has little to do with Him.
Blessings,
Mary

Mary on September 26, 2006 at 02:02 pm
Avatar for Roland

The promotion of dominionism is a true pervision of scripture

Roland on September 26, 2006 at 02:10 pm

Mary: There are no Christian terrorists, and there is no Christian jihad, despite your attempts to link people with whom you don’t agree with both those groups.  Thank God for free speech.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on September 26, 2006 at 02:12 pm

And Mary, there is no link to anything to turn our stomachs. What is you point?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 26, 2006 at 02:27 pm
Avatar for Mary

Sorry

I thought I was on the story about the kid’s Camp in North Dakota.

Mary on September 26, 2006 at 03:24 pm

I just pointed out to Rob that sometimes the link in the email notification goes to a different thread. Glitch in the new system, I guess.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 26, 2006 at 03:31 pm
Avatar for ellinas

And Mary, there is no link to anything to turn our stomachs. What is you point?
2Hotel9 on September 26, 2006 at 06:27 pm
That you both are full of shit dummy. Robert108 what respect I had for you is now 50% less. Your partner here 2hotel9 said: How about if I kill you because you are trampling on American’s Constitutional rights? Which camp do I fall in then? You remained silent to what he s