Say Anything Blog

This is just a scheme to use the tax system to reimpose the “Great Society” welfare state.

No Free Lunch

I agree that O’bambi cannot or will not do 99% of the things he spouts.

I also thought I heard that he revised the statement to 95% of working FAMILIES.

W.

Even worse, this is nothing more than a campaign promise, one which he has no intention of keeping.  As a big govt socialist, Obama’s source of power over the proletariat(most Americans) is through taxation and regulation.  Expect a lot of both in an Obama administration.  For those of you who bellyache about Bush administration spending, you ain’t seen nuttin’ yet!
Obama has already said he thinks our economic system is the govt:

http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/the_premise_of_obamas_brand_of_socialism/

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Millionaires warning the nation will be
destroyed if they have to pay taxes.

Pass the salt.

Millionaires warning the nation will be
destroyed if they have to pay taxes.

Bullshit on two levels.  First, why should we punish people who are productive enough to earn a million dollars?  They are obviously producing a product or service that people want, and are willing to pay for.  What’s wrong with that, for Americans?
Second, Obama’s plan to punish anyone making over $250,000 a year targets almost all small businesses.  If you own your own business, the income of that business is taxed as personal income.  Obama is really going after the heart of our economy: small businesses.  They aren’t unionized, and they employ most of our workforce.  Typical totalitarian socialism.
Obama hates America.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

You have to understand Liberal Speak.

Raising taxes on the “rich” is cutting spending.

Giving that money to other people is called a tax cut.

Grrrrrrrrrr

That’s not a tax cut.  You can’t cut taxes for people who don’t pay them.  If you want to cut taxes you must cut them for people who actually pay them.  And, frankly, that means Americans at the top of the income brackets who pay the most in taxes.

Everybody pays taxes. But I doubt very much Obama would be willing to cut back on the federal gas taxes, or other taxes that lead to higher prices of goods, which get passed on to everyone. After all, repealing or reducing the federal gas tax would benefit EVERYONE, and he doesn’t want the rich to have a “break they don’t need”.

Second, Obama’s plan to punish anyone making over $250,000 a year targets almost all small businesses.  If you own your own business, the income of that business is taxed as personal income.  Obama is really going after the heart of our economy: small businesses.

Not neccessarily true. It depends on how you’ve set up your business. Certain tax designations actually set you and your business apart as seperate entities. A lot of small business owners do this so that if the business goes under, they don’t go under with it. Because a business can easily get a 500k loan. But if the business fails and you aren’t set up right, you’re on the hook for the debt. But you are right that a good deal of small businesses are set up in a way to where the business income is indistinguishable from their income.

You are 100% correct. I think Obama has been drinking his own Kool-Aid!

http://www.obamaunveiled.com

Bottom line is you can’t give someone a tax break who doesn’t pay any taxes, and you can’t raise the price of doing business and expect the economy to grow.  Basic economics and this guy is supposed to be smart.  Looks like Jimmy Carter part DUEX is coming around the bend.  Let’s just hope this version doesn’t call us all stupid and lazy like the last one did.

WOOF - Millionaires warning the nation will be
destroyed if they have to pay taxes.

What if they leave?

The top 1% of taxpayers shoulder 40% of the income tax burden. If you see nothing wrong with this situation, you’re probably a class envy looney toon.

Pass that salt.

You mean, “pass the buck”.

What if they leave?

Interesting!  I wonder how much higher tax rates would have to go, before people with sufficient means decided to take early retirement, or perhaps an extended vacation or sabbatical fro working.

$3 million invested in tax free munis at 4% would yield a lifetime income of $10,000 per month… without touching the principle.  And no taxes on any of it!  Not exorbitant certainly, but if you’ve already purchased all the major essential assets you’re likely to need…

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Dynamic analysis, Bat; something lefties seem to be unable to do.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

BTW, the whole concept of a “tax break” is bullshit.  It assumes some standard level of taxation.  I know the lefties would love to establish something like that, but until it happens, the whole “tax break” thing is just a lie.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

dynamic analysis? bwahaha! that was just simple math.

For truth is named after the daughter of time, not of authority.

-Francis Bacon

Wrong again, Sparkie!  Dynamic analysis is where you calculate how people will react to an input and will adjust to it.  Taking money out of taxed income and putting it in tax free instruments is a typical reaction to the threat of increased taxes, which is why they never generate the revenue the static analysis leftie tax hogs predict.
Too bad you don’t know that.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

McCain wants to cut taxes for everybody who pays taxes. Obama derisively plays the class envy card and talks about the tax breaks going into the “pocket of big oil”.

Considering that something close to seventy percent of Americans are invested in the market, a tax break in the “pocket of big oil” is a tax break to all Americans who have a 401K, retirement fund, or some other market investment.

Obama, the “intellectual”, then tries to sell the idea of cutting taxes on people who pay 0. The candidate believes he can arrive at a figure by dividing by zero.

Considering that something close to seventy percent of Americans are invested in the market, a tax break in the “pocket of big oil” is a tax break to all Americans who have a 401K, retirement fund, or some other market investment.

Lik,

You have it exactly right!  One of the reasons for supporting the partial privatization of Social Security, and placing more control over retirement accounts in the hands of the individuals is that, hopefully, they will come to understand just what investments their retirement money consists of, and just how lame and economically counter-productive the Left’s class warfare arguments actually are.

The two most ignored areas of public education today are the unique nature of American self-reliance against the backdrop of the history of nations, and the obscene lack of basic economic knowledge by the vast majority of Americans.  Neither deficiency is the product of the “vast rightwing conspiracy>”

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Unless there is some standard amount of taxation, there is no such thing as a “tax break”; there are just different rates of taxation.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

R108,

How dare you, sir!  You are a conservative, and you know full well that only intellectually dysfunctional, self-styled “progressives” are allowed to quibble about the true meanings of words posted, or parse the comments here to their (perceived) advantage!  How dare you, indeed!

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

My bad.

If govt control of the economy were the way to go, the Soviet Union would be the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the world.

Thanks to Obama, America remains the only country where it is illegal to drill our own oil!

Millionaires warning the nation will be
destroyed if they have to pay taxes.

Pass the salt

.

They already DO pay taxes, pal.  The top 5% already pay over 40% of all income taxes.  According to class envy clowns like yourself, 5% of the population shouldering 40% is unfair…they should shoulder MORE.

Good luck getting hired by that poor person.

Corporations do not pay taxes. When will someone realize this. Any tax they pay goes into the cost of goods and services. The end purchaser (you and I) pay those taxes. The share holders pay those taxes (our 401K investment funds). There is no corporate welfare that these Numbskulls keep referring to.

While I’m here, What the heck is a working family? Are there non-working families?

God help us all.

I went up to the homeless man and asked him for a job.  He said no, he couldn’t afford to give me a job. 

I went up to the “poor” person and asked them for a job.  They said they couldn’t afford to give me a job.

I went up to the “lower” middle class person and asked them for a job.  They said they couldn’t afford to give me a job, they were trying to pay their bills.

I went up to the “upper” middle class person and asked them for a job.  They said they couldn’t afford to give me a job, they were trying to save for retirement and college.

I went up to the “rich” person and asked them for a job.  They said they’d be happy to, but couldn’t afford it anymore because they had to pay more in taxes.

Let’s hike the taxes on the rich to help the lower class and watch as jobs tumble!  nObama 08

So many factual errors, so little time…

1st…over 90% of small business owners make less then $250,000

2nd…cutting the gas tax will not help everyone. unless your view is so myopic that you only can see until next Tuesday. cutting gas taxes would reduce the price at the pump and raise demand at exactly the time that we need to be cutting demand. not so the price will drop and we can go back to our days of happy motoring (those days are gone forever, quite crying and get used to it)but so that the populace start to make decisions about where and how we live to PERMANENTLY reduce our need for oil. low prices are not the way to do that. for proof, I direct you to look at any 9th grade economics book under the section titled “Basic Supply and Demand”

3rd…While we can debate exactly what level of income qualifies as “rich” the fact of the matter is that the gains in income over the last 10 years has been disproportionately concentrated at the top echelon of wage earners, while incomes for the vast ,majority of Americans has, as best, stagnated or even declined once inflation is accounted for. Add to that the fact that the truly wealthy make very little from wages and most of their income is derived from cap gains. Hence the plan to raise the cap gains tax back to where it was before Bush cut it.

4th…Ok so this isn’t really an error, more me pointing out the false logic of…well most of you…it is true that the top 1% of wage earners pay 40% of all taxes, but in and of itself that stat means absolutely nothing. The real question is how much of the nations wealth or income flows to that top 1%. If you take the fact that the top 1% control around 60% (give or take)of the nations wealth, their tax burden is actually 20% too low. In reality, unless they just plan of moving offshore in the next 10 years or so, it is in their best interest to pony up the additional money. Their taxes help support a system that allows them to “earn” that ridiculous amount of money. If the US is forced to default on it’s obligations and the economy crashes as a result, I wonder how much income they will be making them?

Talk about factual errors…

I don’t know that your “90%” stat, pulled from… somewhere, is accurate, but $250,000 is a bogus number. The top 5% of income earners AGI in 2006 (the last year data is available) was ~$153k a year, so I bet that pulls in a lot more than 10% of small businesses. In 2006, the top 5% in AGI paid >60% of all income taxes and earned >37% of income. Every time capital gains taxes were raised, the income derived from them went down. Do you know which president was the first to lower the CG tax? JFK, he believed in trickle-down economics long before it was called that.

Why do we need to cut our oil consumption? We have plenty available in our backyard if we’d just go get it (not to mention coal and nuclear).

The middle class is shrinking, but the lower class isn’t growing… How can this be? Because more people are moving into the upper class.

And going back to JFK, whom BHO mentioned in his nomination acceptance speech, probably his most famous line is, “Ask not what your country can do for, ask what you can do for your country.” Listening to BHO, he seems to be saying, “Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you.”

So many factual errors, so little time…

The one thing you managed to get right!

1st…over 90% of small business owners make less then $250,000.

Even if this is true, a “fact” not proven, it is relevant only if one assumes that control of individual incomes by the federal government is worthwhile, appropriate, and constitutionally permissible.  It is, however, none of those things.  The wealth of this country’s individual and corporation citizens and the means of production are NOT the property of all of us, or of the US government.

2nd…cutting the gas tax will not help everyone… blah, blah, blah…

Only those persons who drive.  Furthermore, control of the country’s economy for the instigation of leftist social policy goals has never worked.  Some economic competence on the part of FDR and his stealth socialists, for example, and the Great Depression would have been over in two years.  As it was, when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, a decade after FDR’s first inauguration, the nation’s unemployment rate was still nearly 10%!  LBJ’s so-called “Great Society” was even more disastrous, e.g. the impending fiscal Armageddon of Social Security.

for proof, I direct you to look at any 9th grade economics book under the section titled “Basic Supply and Demand”

Really?  I was not aware of any 9th grade econ books, as the economics-illiteracy of those on the Left attests.  Please identify such a book, and the school district in which it is used.

Add to that the fact that the truly wealthy make very little from wages and most of their income is derived from cap gains. Hence the plan to raise the cap gains tax back to where it was before Bush cut it.

Please provide some authoritative documentation to substantiate your claim that the truly wealthy make most of their income from capital gains.  I think this is pure BS and you really don’t know just what capital gains are… but I am willing to be convinced that you’re actually more knowledgeable than you seem.

As for capital gains tax rates, raising them back up is an stupid and counter-productive proposal since it is clearly documented that lowering the cap gains tax rate not only increased economic growth and employment, but increased revenues from the cap gains tax.

3rd…While we can debate exactly what level of income qualifies as “rich” the fact of the matter is that the gains in income over the last 10 years has been disproportionately concentrated at the top echelon of wage earners.

Do you know the terms “static analysis” and “dynamic analysis”?  Static analysis is the simplistic, self-deluded myopia used by those on the Left to compensate for their economic illiteracy and justify their grandiose plans for state control of everything.  The basic assumption is that changing one factor in an economic equation will not effect on any other factor or behavior.  Dynamic analysis shows that if you change one economic factor, people are likely to change their behavior accordingly.  For example, lower interest rates means that people will be more inclined to borrow since the cost of doing so is less.  Similarly, lower tax rates means more economic activity and growth, with more income reported and less hidden from taxation.  Lower rates of taxation also means that more people are moving up the economic ladder, while fewer move down.

Once you decide what “rich” is, perhaps you could find whqt percent of the population was “rich” in 1996 and what percent was “rich” in 2006.  Then do the same for upper middle class, middle class, etc.  I believe you’ll find that far more people have moved up in that decade.

Too, they aren’t all the same people either, are they?  Your static analysis implies that they are, but that isn’t the case.  Of those in the middle class in 1996, some moved up, some moved down, some stayed the same… adjusted for inflation or not.  And the same is true of every other category of income, isn’t it.  Amazing just how dynamic this country’s economy is, ain’t it?

The real question is how much of the nations wealth or income flows to that top 1%.

The prime fatal error.  Hello?! IT AIN’T THE NATION’S WEALTH!  It belongs to the individual!!!  Come to understand that, there’s no telling how much knowledge you can obtain.

Their taxes help support a system that allows them to “earn” that ridiculous amount of money.

Didn’t you just tell us that the “rich” don’t earn their income but get it from capital gains?  This sort of incoherence is what happens when partisan delusion is crossed with unadulterated ignorance.

Go back and find one of those 9th grade econ books, and read it this time.  Carefully.  Then read the Friedmans’ “Free To Choose.”  You’ll be truly amazed at what you might learn.

“Capitalism is optimism monetized.”

Taxes??  Why not he Fair Tax?. Since businesses and corporations do not PAY taxes ( they pass them on ) the fair tax os the way to go

Poor people pay taxes. They pay corporate income taxes on every thing they buy. They pay over 15% FICA and medicare taxes( employer contributions are cost of employment and therefore income, and these taxes go straight to the treasury and not a separate account). Granted Obama doesn’t want to cut these taxes, but poor people do pay federal taxes.

U.S. Tax System explained in Beer
 
 
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
 
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
 
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
 
 
The fifth would pay $1.
 
The sixth would pay $3.
 
The seventh would pay $7.
 
The eighth would pay $12.
 
The ninth would pay $18.
 
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
 
 
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers,’ he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. ‘Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers?
 
 
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
 
 
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
 
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33&#xsa;vings).
 
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28&#xsa;vings).
 
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
 
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings).
 
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
 
 
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
 
‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’  declared the sixth man.  He pointed to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!
 
‘‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man.  ‘I only saved a dollar, too.. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!
 
‘‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man.  ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two?  The wealthy get all the breaks!
 
‘‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!
 
‘The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man (the richest) didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
 
 
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.Professor of Economics University of Georgia

U.S. Tax System explained in Beer
 
 
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.
 
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
 
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
 
 
The fifth would pay $1.
 
The sixth would pay $3.
 
The seventh would pay $7.
 
The eighth would pay $12.
 
The ninth would pay $18.
 
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
 
 
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers,’ he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. ‘Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers?
 
 
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’ They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.
 
 
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
 
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33&#xsa;vings).
 
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28&#xsa;vings).
 
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
 
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings).
 
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
 
 
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
 
‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’  declared the sixth man.  He pointed to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!
 
‘‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man.  ‘I only saved a dollar, too.. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!
 
‘‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man.  ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two?  The wealthy get all the breaks!
 
‘‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!
 
‘The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man (the richest) didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
 
 
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.Professor of Economics University of Georgia