Home Mobile Archives Reader Blogs Register Login

Tuesday, June 17, 2008

Employer Tells His Employees That They Can’t Smoke - And Their Spouses Can’t Either

Okay, we all know that smoking is bad for you. And most of us agree that an employer who provides expensive health care benefits to their employees should probably be able to dictate whether or not those employees use tobacco products.

But this guy is taking his authority as an employer one giant step too far:

Howard Weyers tried the “carrot” approach by giving his employees incentives and encouragement to quit smoking. But when that didn’t work, he resorted to the stick. A big stick.

Weyers, owner of a health care benefits administrator in Lansing, Mich., gave his 200 employees an ultimatum in 2004: Quit smoking in 15 months or lose your job. He refused to hire smokers. Ultimately, he extended his smoking ban to employees’ spouses and monitored compliance through mandatory random blood testing.

He’s telling employees spouses, who do NOT work for him, that if they smoke their husbands/wives can’t work for him either. The self appointed health police like the idea, of course:

But participants in a smoking cessation forum hosted Monday by the Commonwealth Club of California found the idea nonetheless intriguing.

“We’re talking about ending an epidemic. This is a global pandemic,” said Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, likening Weyers’ approach to controlling an outbreak of disease.

A little extreme?

You betcha.

Comments

The self appointed health police…

Another non-existent entity, like Hillary’s “vast right-wing conspiracy”.  The reality is that the 75% of American adults that choose to be smoke-free are just tired of having to breathe the toxic waste of arrogant smokers.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 10:16 am

Even more “intriguing” and perhaps more even-handed as well, would be for Mr. Weyers to eliminate those employees who smoke, especially if he is providing (paying for) health insurance, and deny family coverage for those employees whose spouses smoke.

If an employee’s spouse chooses to smoke, there is no reason why the true long-term cost of that decision should not rest on those who make it.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on June 17, 2008 at 10:22 am
Avatar for ec99

The question then becomes How long is the reach of an employer into the private life of an employee?  So he has gotten rid of all the smokers and thier spouses.  Does he then monitor their diet?  No Big Macs or Whoppers for you! Does he enter their bedrooms?  Hey, cut out the sex, you’re showing up to work tired.  Quite the Pandora’s Box.

ec99 on June 17, 2008 at 10:27 am
Avatar for zakk

The last time I checked, MY employer takes money out of MY check for MY health insurance. Therefore, I think MY employer can ask me not to smoke, they can make me go outside to smoke, they can take away smoke breaks, but they sure as fuck can’t tell my wife she can’t smoke. Especially since she has her own insurance.
Now, if MY employer paid for my insurance and I didn’t pay anything for it, sure, then they would have a leg to stand on. But until then, they can kiss my ass. The way I see it, we’re kind of in this 50/50.
I’m so tired of being treated like a leper. Really, if smoking was that awful, why isn’t it against the law? Oh, that’s right, everyone loves the benefits of the tax dollars smoking generates.
Here’s what I think, I think everyone out there who bitches and complains about MY smoking, needs to walk up to me and shake my hand and thank me for smoking. If it wasn’t for me and my ilk, there would be a lot less money to be wasted by useless politicians.

zakk on June 17, 2008 at 10:36 am
Avatar for Fred

Bottom line, if you want to smoke you have every right to, however dont expect to have someone else pay your health bills when you are not being personally responsible. The amount of US healthcare dollars spent a year on smoking related illness’ is astronomical.

Fred on June 17, 2008 at 10:38 am

Hey, cut out the sex, you’re showing up to work tired.

Especially you women who get knocked up as a result of your sex, automatically ensuring a 6 week maternity leave as a result.

Brandon on June 17, 2008 at 10:41 am
Avatar for Fred

Here’s what I think, I think everyone out there who bitches and complains about MY smoking, needs to walk up to me and shake my hand and thank me for smoking.

Then they should also thank you for wasting thousands of our tax dollars on your poor, or soon to be poor health status due to the irresponsible decisions you have made in your life. Don’t republicans promote personal responsibility?

Fred on June 17, 2008 at 10:44 am

Eh, I wouldn’t work for the guy, even though neither I nor my wife smoke.  That being said, Mr. Weyers is perfectly within his rights to set a standard for his employees, no matter how unreasonable.  I believe the market will take care of people like Mr. Weyers as it will eventually become more expensive for him to hire people.

kbiel on June 17, 2008 at 10:49 am

Quite the Pandora’s Box.

Only in your own mind.  The reality is that smokers have brought this on themselves with their addiction and their arrogance.  I’m tired of having toxic smoke forced on me.
When a smoker asks me(which only rarely happens, btws) if I mind if they smoke, I ask them if they mind me taking a shit in their lungs.
When the smoke goes away, the complaints will go away.
BTW, this whole thing is meaningless unless toxic, health-threatening stuff turns up in the blood of the employees in question.  No harm, no foul.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 10:49 am

Bottom line, if you want to smoke you have every right to…

Not when it violates someone else’s right to not breathe your smoke.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 10:53 am
Avatar for ec99

"Only in your own mind.”

Hardly. If you noticed, my point concerns the extent to which an employer can dictate a person’s private life.  Smoking is just a part of that.  What of the employer who says: Quit clogging your arteries with fast food?  Don’t drive that sub-compact, you’ll get severely injured in a crash. And sell that motorcycle?  You’re allowed one pregnancy?  What do you mean you’re going sky diving?  The Box is open.  Just have to wait and see what all flies out.

ec99 on June 17, 2008 at 10:57 am

If you noticed, my point concerns the extent to which an employer can dictate a person’s private life.

If you noticed, this all revolves around a blood test.  As I said before, if the blood test doesn’t turn up any unhealthy effects on the employee from the spouse’s smoking, nothing happens.  And if it does, then there’s a good reason for the test.  Get it?

“What if...” Pure hysteria.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 11:01 am

Not when it violates someone else’s right to not breathe your smoke.

The owner’s not taking a stand against second hand smoke. He’s taking a stand against people even smoking within the confines of their own home in the name of healthcare expenses for his company.

Brandon on June 17, 2008 at 11:07 am

The owner’s not taking a stand against second hand smoke.

Yes, he is; that’s the point of the blood test.
BTW, I notice you didn’t address the violation of non-smokers’ rights.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 11:11 am
Avatar for Fred

Not when it violates someone else’s right to not breathe your smoke.

If I want to smoke in the privacy of my own home or outside in a public area I think I are completely entitled to. You have the choice of not standing next to me. I am all about the smoking ban in restaurants and other enclosed public areas for obvious reasons but when it comes to being outside, I really don’t think second hand smoke comes into the equation. I am not even a smoker, in fact I hate smoking but I don’t think it isn’t anyone’s business what I do to my body unless you are paying for my health and or life insurance.

Fred on June 17, 2008 at 11:11 am
Avatar for ec99

"“What if...” Pure hysteria.”

“Hey President Roosevelt, what if we round up all the Japanese Americans and put them in camps?”

ec99 on June 17, 2008 at 11:13 am

BTW, I notice you didn’t address the violation of non-smokers’ rights.

Uhh, because it’s impossible to smoke within the confines of your own home AND violate somebody else’s right to smoke free air?

*shaking my head in amazement*

Brandon on June 17, 2008 at 11:14 am

“Hey President Roosevelt, what if we round up all the Japanese Americans and put them in camps?”

Considering the intel capabilities at that time, it was the right thing to do; the bad thing was in not giving their stuff back after the war, with compensation for those who weren’t spies.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 11:18 am

*shaking my head in amazement*

Might be Parkinson’s; you should get a checkup.

I was replying to another commenter’s assertion of a “right to smoke”. Get it?  You changed the subject.
You know, they have drugs for that.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 11:20 am

I believe the market will take care of people like Mr. Weyers as it will eventually become more expensive for him to hire people.

On the other hand, with “clean employees”, he might get more productivity, due to less sick time being taken, and he might be more competitive due to lower overhead with healthcare cost.  The market, indeed.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 11:25 am

Considering the intel capabilities at that time, it was the right thing to do; the bad thing was in not giving their stuff back after the war, with compensation for those who weren’t spies.

BUllshit. Based on that logic we should all be locked in padded rooms until all potential avenues of peril are nailed down.

Go sit with the Democrats.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on June 17, 2008 at 11:27 am

Oh, that’s right, everyone loves the
benefits of the tax dollars smoking generates.

Bullshit.  Smoking costs more than it generates, and only the political class benefits from taxes.

Sparkie: Yet another invalid analogy from you.  We won the war, so the strategy worked.  I do think you could lock yourself in a padded room, though.  It would probably improve the quality of life for the rest of us.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 11:29 am
Avatar for WhatTha?

"Really, if smoking was that awful, why isn’t it against the law? Oh, that’s right, everyone loves the benefits of the tax dollars smoking generates.”

Yup, the legislature had a proposal a few years ago to make tobacco products illegal in North Dakota.  Guess who worked to kill it?  The heart association, cancer society and lung association!  Why...’cause their $$$ would have dried up.

WhatTha? on June 17, 2008 at 11:30 am

r108
you proffer the non sequitor

We won the war, so the strategy worked.

oh. and i thought it had to do with us wiping out those 150,000 civilians in Japan. (speaking of Carrick’s definition of terrorism)

low and behold it was the camps all along.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on June 17, 2008 at 11:54 am
Avatar for Amazed

So… let me get this straight.  You people are ok with an employer dictating what you do on your off-time?  What if he decides alcohol is a danger to the liver and therefore is off limits?  Or perhaps no more snow skiing because the insurance bills for broken legs are getting out of control.  May sound a little extreme, but this is ridiculous!  And I would bet that the same bunch of people saying this is ok are the same bunch of folks who scream at the Patriot Act, right? 

And… on a broader note… if anyone thinks the government is not going to be just as intrusive once we have socialized healthcare shoved down our throats, you are niave and dumb.  Please continue to campaign for the marxist, socialist Obama.  At least we know for sure where you stand on ‘Democracy’ and freedom of choice.

Amazed on June 17, 2008 at 12:05 pm

So… let me get this straight.  You people are ok with an employer dictating what you do on your off-time?

No, I’m not.  That’s why I wouldn’t work for such an employer.  That doesn’t change the fact that Mr. Weyers has the right to conduct his business as he sees fit.  So if he wants to ban alcohol use, skiing, et cetera, then he is well within his rights to do so, just as you and I are within our rights to not work for him.

kbiel on June 17, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Avatar for Choices anyone?

I don’t understand why the government feels they have the right to dictate to a business owner about what goes on in his own establishment.  I think it should be the right of the restaurant/bar owner to allow smoking if they choose to.  The only ‘regulation’ that should be put on the business is that they post very visable signs stating that ‘the establishment you are about to enter allows smoking.  Smoking has been known to cause lung cancer (etc) and by entering you acknowledge that you may be subjected to second-hand smoke.’ Or something along those lines that would satisfy the lawyers. 

This gives the people entering the establishment the freedom to CHOOSE!  What a novel concept!  The business will not succeed if people decide not to risk it, but at least the choice is still there for those that do want a place to socialize and (gasp) smoke.

And… I’m a non-smoker.  Just one who believes in freedom.

Choices anyone? on June 17, 2008 at 12:11 pm

Amazed,

You’ve got next to nothing straight!!  If the employer is paying for health insurance coverage as part of an employee’s compensation, and making coverage available for family members as well, then almost any toad can see that the employer has a legitimate interest in behavior that bears directly on what he must pay to provide that coverage.

Perhaps if you paid a bit more careful attention to what is, and what is not being said, and tried to be a bit less frantic in your comments, you might find yourself less “amazed” and more in tune with reality.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on June 17, 2008 at 12:19 pm

I think it’s inaccurate to frame this as a “rights” issue, when it’s really about choices. It’s funny how some folks support “choice” when it comes to killing innocent babies, and don’t speak about the babies’ “right to live”.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Avatar for zakk

Leave it up to “Fred” to turn this into a Dem\Rep issue. Since your jackass went there, isn’t it the Dems always preaching about ‘choice’ and ‘it’s my body’? Oh, I’m sorry does that only count if your killing an unborn child.
As far as my “poor, or soon to be poor health status”, funny, my Aunt died of Lung Cancer and she never smoked nor did her parents. Now, my Grandmother (not my Aunts mother) smoked all her life and died from old age. By the way FRED does the name Jim Fixx mean anything to you? Look it up.
As far as the argument that ‘non-smokers’ rights are being violated. How are you being violated when it was your lobby that first put us outside, then showed us where to stand. Best I can tell, we are playing by your rules. But I guess your just never going to be happy are you. Probably not, probably because you are just a miserable person and your using the fight against smoking to mask it.

zakk on June 17, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Avatar for Amazed

I absolutely agree, kbiel.  I may have been a little off in my points I was trying to make.  I don’t think businesses should be required to provide health care to their employees.  This is a ‘perk’ or benefit and should be an incentive to work hard and get employed with a successful company that does provide insurance.  If you are unhappy with the company you are working for because they don’t offer insurance, find a new job.  No one is forcing you to work there.

I think I was probably projecting where I think the government will go if they are handed the reins.  I feel like our freedoms are being eroded away by people doing what is “for our own good”.  I just want to be left alone to decide what is in my own best interest.  I am willing to accept the consequences of those choices.

Amazed on June 17, 2008 at 12:25 pm

you proffer the non sequitor

If you think that winning a war doesn’t make what you did a success, then you just aren’t in the real world.  The only thing that matters in war is winning.
It’s non sequitur, btw.

“Don’t write naughty words on walls if you can’t spell...”

Tom Lehrer, Be Prepared.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 12:26 pm

Best I can tell, we are playing by your
rules.

Hardly.  However, you very clearly illustrate the arrogance of the smoker, which is why you are getting whacked.  BTW, the real disease of smoking(and second hand smoke) is emphysema.  I’m sure your Granny had it, although it is often not diagnosed.  My mother died of emphysema(undiagnosed) when she had an operation and couldn’t come out of the anesthetic.  Her lungs were too weakened from her lifetime cigarette addiction.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Avatar for Amazed

Thanks, Bat One.  You actually made my point for me.

“If the employer is paying for health insurance coverage as part of an employee’s compensation, and making coverage available for family members as well, then almost any toad can see that the employer has a legitimate interest in behavior that bears directly on what he must pay to provide that coverage.”

Substitute ‘government’ for ‘employer’ and I’m sure you can understand my concerns.

Amazed on June 17, 2008 at 12:31 pm

R108,

An exquisitely well-timed interjection of the pertinently impertinent Tom Lehrer!  Bravo!


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on June 17, 2008 at 12:31 pm

Substitute ‘government’ for ‘employer’ and I’m sure you can understand my concerns.

There is a fundamental difference between the two; you can opt out of working for the employer.

Bat:

“When the shades of night are falling
Comes a fellow everyone knows
It’s the old dope peddler
Spreading joy wherever he goes...”

Reminds me of lefties in general, and Obama in particular.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 12:36 pm

It’s non sequitur, btw.

Oh, sorry about that old feller. They stopped mandating latin lessons at the Lyceum by the time I attended.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on June 17, 2008 at 12:38 pm

i thought it had to do with us wiping out those
150,000 civilians in Japan.

Or maybe it was the complete destruction of their Army and Navy...could be.

Sparkie: a lack of education is a lack of education.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Sparkie, being the janitor there for two days before being fired doesn’t count as attendance!  Yeesh!

And we could end this argument right now if we did the right thing and repealed the (1945?) law that allows employers to pay certain benefits tax-free.  If everyone paid the weight of their own decisions, I bet you’d quickly find that some more intelligent decisions about smoking (and Big Macs) would be made.

Mr. Weyers would have to change his business, of course, but it would be good for the rest of us.

Bike Bubba on June 17, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Avatar for Ken

If you think that winning a war doesn’t make what you did a success, then you just aren’t in the real world.

But did we win the war as a result of the internment camps? Just because you win the war doesn’t make all of your actions successful, effective, or right. If you can show me evidence that the interment camps themselves were beneficial I would appreciate it.

When a smoker asks me(which only rarely happens, btws) if I mind if they smoke, I ask them if they mind me taking a shit in their lungs.

You sure sound like a friendly guy.

Ken on June 17, 2008 at 01:10 pm
Avatar for zakk

Actually, to be specific, my Grandmother passed away at age 88 and there was nothing wrong with her lungs she did have alzheimer’s and according to the doctor she just ‘forgot’ that she smoked. She also forgot that she loved a Gin and Tonic everynight. Are you up for outlawing that? Let’s get rid of the booze too. Should the employer be allowed to tell you when you get home from work, you can’t have a drink because it may lead to liver disease, or some other alcohol related problem?
Way to prove your point that we are “Hardly” playing by your rules.
Was it not the anti-smoking lobby that put the smokers outside?
Was it not the anti-smoking lobby that put the smokers 20-50 feet away from the front door?
But, good argument. No seriously, I expect to see you on Countdown later this week with those kind of strong arguments.
Sorry to hear about your grand mother.
“very clearly illustrate the arrogance of the smoker, which is why you are getting whacked.” not sure what you mean. How was what I said “arrogance”?
Or is that just a new word you learned this year from your calendar of ‘big words’.

zakk on June 17, 2008 at 01:21 pm

Employers do not pay for health insurance.

WOOF on June 17, 2008 at 02:13 pm
Avatar for Chuck

If we get rid of everything that is bad for us, quit driving the dangerous roads, eat only “APPROVED” healthy foods, eliminate everything, EVERYTHING, that can kill us or others, we would all be pretty miserable, and we would STILL DIE!! Do you people really think your risk from other people smoke is any more real than your risk of driving to work or gramma’s house on sunday afternoon? EVERYTHING involves risk, the rest is just some poeple trying to control what risks people take...that and a bunch of hypocrites who think only they have the right way...this is the same as any common religious nut who thinks only one viewpoint is the truth, and only they know what we all need.
I would list all the things in our lives that kill us all the time, but that would take alot of work as the list would be 400 pages or more. I might collapse and die and then you smoke nazis’s would be one step closer to total world domination....cant have that just yet

Chuck on June 17, 2008 at 02:21 pm

Wow, a moment of clarity of WOOF.  Employers also don’t pay matching SS taxes and corporations don’t pay taxes.

kbiel on June 17, 2008 at 02:23 pm
Avatar for chuck

"When a smoker asks me(which only rarely happens, btws) if I mind if they smoke, I ask them if they mind me taking a shit in their lungs.”

Oh, forget...this guy is a real winner...someone shows him enough respect to ask, and his response is this? Not to many friends I betcha

chuck on June 17, 2008 at 02:26 pm

chuck: Not smokers, for sure.  I don’t really like addicts all that much.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 02:48 pm

Was it not the anti-smoking lobby that put the smokers 20-50 feet away from the front door?

Make it a half mile, and you might have something.
I see the addicts are screeching about being deprived of their “dope”.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 02:52 pm
Avatar for Chuck

Do you even know the meaning of the word “addict” It is very under used, cuz almost everyone has an addiction of some kind. Some are worse than others, but the term ADDICT can apply to everyone, so why not climb off your holier than thou perch and admit you dont have many friends at all, addicts or not.

Chuck on June 17, 2008 at 02:53 pm

Just because you win the war doesn’t make all of your actions successful, effective, or right.

Yes, it does.

I’m not real friendly toward people who want to put their shit in my lungs.  I guess that point just went over your head.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 02:54 pm
Avatar for chuck

I’m not real friendly toward people who want to put their shit in my lungs.  I guess that point just went over your head.

Big difference between not being friendly when someone offers a polite question and offering to shit in thier lungs...your a real piece of work. If you dont know the difference between “not friendly” and “rude and self important” you probably cant be trusted with any other observations either.

chuck on June 17, 2008 at 03:00 pm

Employers do not pay for health insurance.

A glimmer if economic knowledge from a leftie. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every so often.
Under the present system, we all do; it’s in the price of everything we buy.  Only a free market healthcare system based on fee for services is free of impact on the taxpayers.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 03:00 pm

Big difference between not being friendly when someone offers a polite question and offering to shit in thier lungs...your a real piece of work.

It’s neither “friendly” nor “respectful” to put your shit in everyone else’s lungs, whether you ask or not.
If you have enough awareness to ask, you should know better than to do it.  Addicts really don’t care about others; they just have to have their drug.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 03:04 pm
Avatar for chuck

A glimmer if economic knowledge from a leftie. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every so often.
Under the present system, we all do; it’s in the price of everything we buy.  Only a free market healthcare system based on fee for services is free of impact on the taxpayers.

See, a reasonable statement, could be logical, but from you, it must be questioned....is he as unbalanced in his view here as he is in his other views? If I try to agree, will he ask to shit in my lungs?  See, you put us all in a quandry....and alienate the very people you want to reach.  your a funny guy…

chuck on June 17, 2008 at 03:05 pm

108 is correct that nicotine is physically addictive, for what it’s worth.  I don’t share his fairly harsh view of smokers, but he does have a point that it is addictive and poisonous.

And while it can be argued (a la Woof) that the employee technically ends up paying his health insurance whether he knows it or not, the reality is that as long as smokers are grouped with nonsmokers, the latter are subsidizing the costs of smoking related illnesses.  For that reason and a bazillion others, it’s a good thing to return direct responsibility for healthcare costs to the consumer.

Bike Bubba on June 17, 2008 at 03:10 pm
Avatar for Chuck

One more, then I have to get back to work. This is fun...you have alot of post here...ALOT of posts....you must be a very non productive, like one of those little girls who texts her friends 1000 times a week....your therapist is calling

Chuck on June 17, 2008 at 03:10 pm

I’m not real friendly toward people who want to put their shit in my lungs. I guess that point just went over your head.
robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 02:54 pm

So a coal burning electricity generating power plan,or a oil refinery in your back yard is out of the question?
I guess that point did not go over my head.

ellinas on June 17, 2008 at 03:21 pm

...in your back yard is out of the question? My backyard is in a residential neighborhood.
I guess that point did not go over my head. I guess it did, and you just proved it with your false analogy.

Let me ‘splain it to you, troll: A person forcing their toxic smoke on those around him or her isn’t the same as a business that generates something people want.  I know you are economically ignorant, so your foolish statement is no surprise here.
With smoking, it’s all cost, with no benefit except for the addict.  With a generating plant or a refinery(both of which we sorely need), the cost is mostly borne by the business, not the public, though the public benefits greatly.  It’s also true that we have the technology to make both of those businesses quite “clean”, so you have no point at all.
BTW, we don’t put them in anyone’s backyard, and they add jobs and revenue to our economy.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 03:34 pm

...the term ADDICT can apply to everyone…

Only if you change the definition of the word to suit your bullshit purposes.  Smoking is an act of gross stupidity and rudeness.
I see the addicts are getting very defensive here.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 03:36 pm
Avatar for syn

Bottom line, if you want to have sex unprotected you have every right to however, don’t expect to have someone else pay your health bills when you are not being personally responsible.  The amount of US healthcare dollars spent a year on STDs and abortion is astronomical.

Fred, is that about right?

syn on June 17, 2008 at 03:37 pm

Wow, a moment of clarity of WOOF. Employers also don’t pay matching SS taxes and corporations don’t pay taxes.

Yes, the cost of all social engineering programs, including the present method of dispensing healthcare, is distributed among the taxpaying public.  That’s what socialism does.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 03:39 pm

You know exactly what I mean. Your fancy tirade is nothing but a distraction. You are one of those NIMBY people.

ellinas on June 17, 2008 at 03:40 pm

See, a reasonable statement, could be logical, but from you, it must be questioned…

I agreed with him, “chuck”.  Has your addiction made you that stupid?  And yes, he almost always peddles leftie economic nonsense.  This statement was a rare exception.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 03:42 pm

At least you’re consistent, e man.  You are consistently ignorant.  You don’t know what “cost/benefit” means, either.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 03:43 pm

Just so you know, e man: If I needed the money, I would love to get in on an investment in either a generating plant or a refinery, and would love to have it on property that I owned.  You really are ignorant.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 03:45 pm
Avatar for Chuck

robert108: I like you....you are a ice cream sundae w/cherry on top case study. Your ability to ignore anything that questions your belief system, glom onto any small bit that you think you can rebut while pretending all the other points arent really there, the blatent intellectual dishonesty you display, the rude, self important way you choose to communicate, the complete obtuse style you practice, it all adds up to one thing....you need to be saved from yourself....I know this is hard to hear, its hard to say cuz I really like you....but if you dont get the therapy you are in need of, you may force society to impose it on you.
Again, I like you, your a fun guy...Anyone who gets the offer of a good lung shitting from you would be crazy to pass it up. OOOOO Im hysterical lol think I will smoke a cig.
Your therapist is waiting for you. Dont let us down!!!!

Chuck on June 17, 2008 at 03:53 pm
Avatar for Kansasgirl

I want the same litmus test to apply to AIDS. We have now learned that heterosexuals are “not” affected by this disease. Surprise, surprise. Let’s see how the libs would spin this.

Kansasgirl on June 17, 2008 at 03:54 pm
Avatar for Zakk

robert108, do you own a car?
Do you ride a Bus?
Not to be gross, but do you ever release gas (fart)?
Well, it looks like you are forcing people to breath your shit.
How is it up there, you know, on your high horse.
And, again, I have to ask - I’m in the area your side has designated for me to smoke that is a ‘safe’ distance away from you and your perceived clear lungs. What is your problem? The only way you can have to breath in my shit, as you so lovingly put it, is if you were to walk out and then around the side of the building or next to the dumpster...oh, I’m sorry, do you live in a dumpster?
In other words, the only way your breathing in my smoke is if you are actively seeking it out. Getting back to my original point that you are looking for a reason to bitch and complain. Robert108 - you are a miserable person who thinks he is better than everyone else.

Zakk on June 17, 2008 at 04:03 pm

Fred: Your “right” to smoke(actually a choice), ends at the next person’s right to not be forced to breathe your smoke.  It is bullshit(and territorial) to insist that anyone who doesn’t want your shit in their lungs “move away”.  Your choice to smoke has consequences, and carries certain responsibilities.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 04:20 pm
Avatar for Zakk

Again, I have to ask (knowing full well that you will never actually answer a direct question) how are you being ‘forced’ to breath in smoke? Is anyone forcing you to walk around to the designated smoking area?
Ok- now, change the subject.

Zakk on June 17, 2008 at 04:25 pm
Avatar for Chuck

Zakk,
Robby108 will not answer direct questions or acknowledge counterpoints. He is a casestudy in the obtuse, and he wants to shit down your lungs, so for gods sake, be careful!

Chuck on June 17, 2008 at 04:29 pm
Avatar for Zakk

Thanks for the heads up, Chuck. I’ll keep an eye out.

Zakk on June 17, 2008 at 04:38 pm
Avatar for Chuck

Robby108
If you walk into a room full of smokers, you might be able to survive if you are quick and have the will to live another day...you might just make it. If you choose to shit into someones lungs, that would be instant death for the person you have shit into. What is the real crime? hmmm?
I heard that down in gitmo they like to shit down prisoners lungs as an interogation method. Hey!! I bet you could post almost 19000 times and still shit down the evildoers lungs at the same time! Thats what I call making lemonade out of lemons....or in this case, shitade out of shit!!
Your therapist is still calling, dont make us do an intervention!!

Chuck on June 17, 2008 at 04:45 pm
Avatar for Chuck

too much fun for one day. Thanks robby108, you are very entertaining. bye

Chuck on June 17, 2008 at 04:49 pm

too much fun for one day

A man has to know his limits.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 05:38 pm

Is anyone forcing you to walk around to the designated smoking area?

Smoke travels in the air.  Duh.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 05:40 pm

Your therapist is waiting for you.

I’m not the angry tobacco addict, “chuck”.  Nice projection, though.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 05:42 pm

zakk: You have smoking addiction confused with natural functions.  Not so intelligent.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on June 17, 2008 at 05:43 pm
Avatar for Zakk

Robert108, so in all your brilliance your telling me that it is a natural function to drive your car? It’s a natural function to heat your home? A natural function to ride mass transit? Not to mention, have you ever been to a rock show? Do you think the smoke/fog coming out of those machines is healthy? Or, should we ban that too. For your sake.

Well, isn’t that the kettle calling the pot black.
Once again, you have selected a small section of what I wrote and chosen to use that as your entire argument.

Chuck was right about you, and I really like the way you wait until he signed off to even try to stir the pot with him.
Sad.

You know, I’ve noticed you’ve used the term ‘leftie’ a few times throughout this day. And, you’ve used this term in a derogatory manner. Here’s the funny part, you argue like a true leftie would. Avoid the issue and when it gets too deep for you, you change the subject.

Zakk on June 17, 2008 at 06:25 pm

Zakk, welcome to the wonderful world of Bob108.

ta-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa


Excuse me, you were saying?


realitybasedbob's signature
realitybasedbob on June 17, 2008 at 06:34 pm
Avatar for Matt

Bottom line is that smoking is not the most expensive habit to your health care insurance company - having children is.  So I am going to start asking applicants if they have any children.  Yes?  Then get out.  Are you a Catholic?  Get out.  Are you female?  Get out.  We could then start collecting numbers on the propensity of each race to having children and not hire them either. 

And I shouldn’t have to mention the fat people. 

Further to the point, if you want to expand the argument to medicaid - they should encourage people to smoke and drink heavily.  What are the chances they will ever make it to retirement? 

So unless smoking is illegal, they cannot discriminate against you for doing it.

Matt on June 17, 2008 at 06:44 pm

Robert,

You really go off the deep end with smoking. Sorry, no other way to put it:

1. The repeated point that many habits are addictive is absolutely true. People get dependant on alcohol and caffeine as well. With the massive ammounts of people who drink soda and coffee, the point that most of us can be called addicts is accurate.

2. You do not have a right to go somewhere and not “have someone shit in your lungs” as you so charmingly put it. You know, going in, that the restaurant will have smoke in it. Your willingness to go in negates your “right” to not deal with smoke.

3. The idea that there is some massive risk to you being outdoors in the vicinity of a smoker is ridiculous. Smoke dissipates rather quickly in the air. And with you breathing in car exhaust and other pollutants in the air, your “clean lungs” are anything but.

4. Ellinas point about factories is well made. The counter idea that it’s any less nasty because the factory makes something is obscufication. The “shit in your lungs” is still just as nasty.

5. Just because we won the war with Japan doesn’t mean that all of our ideas were good, or helped win the war. Sparkie has just made his first correct assessment EVER.

I’m sure there’s more but that’s a good start.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on June 17, 2008 at 06:51 pm

You can argue this issue until the cows come home, but it is beyond me how any American can tolerate or approve of this intrusion into the private lives of people in this country. Ban it at work, even violate the rights of businesses that want to openly cater to smokers, but to ban it at home, even by the employee or in public is just plain wrong. Anyone supporting this cannot, IMO, believe in liberty at all.

There are all sorts of ways to encourage people to stop smoking through financial incentives, just one being lower employee contributions to health care plans, which savings stimulates voluntary cessation. But, this is a degree of invasion of privacy that, IMO, violates the very idea of personal liberty.


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on June 17, 2008 at 07:12 pm

Zakk, welcome to the wonderful world of Bob108.

ta-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa-pocketa

Robert108 is far from perfect, he would admit that; but he is very intelligent, and a very able debater and for you to offer an inane, assinine, meaningless comment as above only demonstrates that you are not his intellectual equal. Argue with him, show him he is wrong, use facts and reason, but this nonsense by rbb is just ridiculous, childsih and a wast eo space.!


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on June 17, 2008 at 07:18 pm

The “random blood testing” thing gets me.

We’ve apparently gotten to the point where nothing - NOTHING - will be left to personal choice.

All you overweight people out there take note - you’ll be next.

Or - have high cholesterol - can’t work here.

Or - high blood pressure - get another job.

Or - drink alcohol - can’t use you.

Just be a nice little bunch of droids and you’ll be fine. There now...that’s a good little boy or girl.


The future ain’t what it used to be.....

Pilgrim on June 17, 2008 at 07:35 pm
Avatar for Ken

Argue with him, show him he is wrong, use facts and reason, but this nonsense by rbb is just ridiculous, childsih and a wast eo space.!

How can you argue with him if he’s so damn dishonest. He spins everything. He rarely includes links to back up his claims. Plus he manages to relate every discussion to socialism, even if its irrelevant or nonsensical.

Ken on June 17, 2008 at 08:03 pm

Ken: Pay attention, I was talking to rbb about his childish response!


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on June 17, 2008 at 08:09 pm

Blood test you say? How about a monthly stool sample to screen for colon cancer. But that is not enough. I demand my employees have a colonoscopy every six months. I want to make sure I don’t pay extra for their reckless lifestyle. We know that meat consumption increases the risk for colon cancer. While we are at it we shall install a camera in your back yard to make sure you don’t grill or barbeque, because grilling and or barbequing meat adds carcinogens.
You eat red meat...no job for you.

ellinas on June 17, 2008 at 08:09 pm