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Sunday, November 30, 2008

Did Obama Cause The Stock Market Rally?

Recently myself and some other political commentators have been dogging Obama for the post-election stock market collapse.  At one point the DOW was down 19% since election day, and I (correctly) suggested that it was because of the economic policies Obama had been promising during the campaign.

Now the markets have rebounded a bit and George Stephanopoulos is suggesting that it’s because of Obama (video here).  I’m actually inclined to agree.

In recent weeks Obama and Democrats have backed away from their promise to roll back the Bush tax cuts, and Obama himself has appointed a bevy of centrist economics personnel to his administration that, while they have their problems, are hardly the sort of extremists you’d expect to implement Obama’s big government, redistribution campaign agenda.

I think these things have given the market a bit of confidence back, and to an extent Obama should get some credit for that.  But what’s interesting is that in order for Obama to instill some confidence in this economy he had to move away from the leftist economic agenda he campaigned on.  Which tells us a lot about what that agenda would do if it was ever implemented.

And Obama doesn’t entirely get off the hook here.  I’m convinced that he’s just playing nice for a bit, and hiding behind some moderate economic types, to mask his real agenda.  Which is exactly what he told it was during his campaign: Big government.  Big taxes.  Wealth redistribution.

Comments

Well, if he’s responsible for the modest recovery, he must be equally (if not more so) culpable for the collapse. I, too, am inclined to agree, and for the same reason: he has backtracked from his more radical positions.

I’m also not alone in thinking that we may yet see some radicalism from this guy. I hope not, but am scurrying to prepare for bad times.

Seth Williams on November 30, 2008 at 05:36 pm
Rob
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I’m also not alone in thinking that we may yet see some radicalism from this guy.

I agree.

Pretending to be someone he is not was a centerpiece of Obama’s campaign.  I think it will be a centerpiece of his administration as well.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on November 30, 2008 at 05:54 pm

I figure it will be maybe six, not more than twelve, months before we start to see this cat’s true colors. if he doesn’t go hard left by then, I think he won’t or will hold off until the Congressional election after that. Just my sense of the strategic picture politically.

My dread is that he’ll do worse than institute a hard left economic and social policy (bad enough in and of themselves), but that he and a complicitous Congress will cut deep into foundational freedoms.

Seth Williams on November 30, 2008 at 06:01 pm

We haven’t seen the bottom of this market yet. Remember the good old days of a DOW over 10,000? Give Pelosi and Reed some time to get their fingers in the mix and watch the economy settle into a recession.

Mickey on November 30, 2008 at 06:09 pm

That’s why I’m stocking up now, Mickey. Hate to say it, but if he pushes the economic agenda he’s talked about, I think a depression is a very real possibility.

Seth Williams on November 30, 2008 at 06:17 pm

a shot of a part of the line up for the 90,000 lbs of food distribution organized in DC by the Redskins and Fedex.

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WOOF on November 30, 2008 at 07:16 pm

You guys are idiots.  The problems are not so simple as if the President elect’s announcements have that great of impact.

Lioncourt on November 30, 2008 at 07:28 pm

Why is it idiocy to believe that if he is to be credited with the recovery, then he is culpable for the slump?

Leftists always want to have their cake and eat it too.

Seth Williams on November 30, 2008 at 07:35 pm

Lioncourt,

Yep, take one of the two positions:

1.  Obama gets the credit/blame for the economy since Election Day.

2.  Obama gets the credit/blame for the economy starting six to twleve months after his inauguration.

then stick with it.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on November 30, 2008 at 07:40 pm

Logical fallacy:

Post Hoc Ergo Proctor Hoc.

Lioncourt on November 30, 2008 at 08:08 pm

Lack of Context.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on November 30, 2008 at 08:41 pm

The Stock Market hates uncertainty; once things become more certain, they can make educated decisions again.

Kevin on November 30, 2008 at 09:45 pm
Avatar for Dino

Well, yeah, sure, whatever you guys need to be able to get some sleep and face the next 4 years. if it keeps you away from the bridges and overpasses to believe that we elected another centrist then that’s all that matters.

A good proportion of the changes in government happen behind the scenes at the agencies and in the courts. Replacing all the nutjobs appointed during the last 8 years with even moderately liberal people will be throwing the conservative machine into hyper-reverse.

Ah, I remember when bush was selected those long 8 years ago. We liberals spent our days before inauguration telling ourselves that he wouldn’t govern from the far right. After all, he was a uniter.

How wrong we were. Think about it.

Dino on November 30, 2008 at 10:51 pm

So

Debauched
insipid
nihilistic
obnoxious troll

you winy bitch and “...pathetic old homosexual”, when did Obama become an LBGT champion?


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on November 30, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Avatar for Dino

Oh Rodney, you flatterer! How you go go ON! Lately you’re almost as bitchy as this old gal!

And remember, you still lost the election!

Dino on November 30, 2008 at 10:59 pm

Our latest troll,

Debauched
insipid
nihilistic
obnoxious troll

the winy bitch and “...pathetic old homosexual” informs me:

And remember, you still lost the election!

Odd that, I didn’t even know I was running for elective office.  Then again, we don’t really expect cogent argument nor factual accuracy from such a winy bitch, do we?


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on November 30, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Avatar for di butler

so you think a market that forecasts 6-12 mos. out isn’t affected by the incoming president’s stated policies? explain then why when Tim Geither, who is supposedly very astute, was named the stock market went up after being way down since the election? I know I read several places that the people on the floor were relieved by the announcement, so does that not mean they are basing things off of his decisions?

di butler on November 30, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Avatar for Dino

Well dl, astute businesswoman that you are (or married into), if your insinuation is that the markets don’t like democrats, think again. The stock market under dems always outperforms the markets under republicans. Or perhaps you haven’t read the papers?

In fact, everything is better under dems. That’s why we’ve allowed republicans to rule for relatively short periods in the last century. The two times they ruled for long periods they gave us The Great Depression in the 1930s and the New Great Depression today!

But y’all down south keep hopin’ for that miracle that will give you back some political power someday!

Dino on November 30, 2008 at 11:37 pm

Careful Dino.

Rod has a thing for beardless catamites.


...for great justice

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52zx1x.jpg

Move_Zig on December 1, 2008 at 12:07 am

A good proportion of the changes in government happen behind the scenes at the agencies and in the courts. Replacing all the nutjobs appointed during the last 8 years with even moderately liberal people will be throwing the conservative machine into hyper-reverse.

Good good, just keep telling yourself that. Thank god Obama didn’t pick hardcore leftists for any positions that, you know, actually matter.

Ken McCracken on December 1, 2008 at 12:08 am
Avatar for di butler

If you are so smart then why didn’t you answer my questions, instead of snarking on me? You didn’t do anything other than repeat the same thing you say on every thread.

di butler on December 1, 2008 at 12:33 am

How wrong we were. Think about it.

And he didn’t govern from the far right.

Not that anyone with an IQ above 12 thought he would.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on December 1, 2008 at 02:27 am

Just wait until after Jan. 20. Within a month, you’ll witness the biggest nosedive since the FDR GP.


The battle for freedom must be won over and over again.

AKAJOEL on December 1, 2008 at 04:16 am

Just wait until after Jan. 20. Within a month, you’ll witness the biggest nosedive since the FDR GP.


The battle for freedom must be won over and over again.

AKAJOEL on December 1, 2008 at 04:16 am

Early in what became the Great Depression, John Maynard Keynes was asked if anything similar had ever happened. “Yes,” he replied, “it was called the Dark Ages and it lasted 400 years.” It did take 25 years, until November 1954, for the Dow to return to the peak it reached in September 1929.

Obama is obviously a very clever fellow and he’ll be cautious up front. He’ll try to be cautious about moving too openly [key word here is openly] and too quickly to the left. But the only thing that will hold him back is his political judgement about what the traffic will bear, in terms of the acceptance of the American people. Most people who voted for him think him to be some kind of post-partisan, post-ideological moderate, but he isn’t.

Obama and the other marxists in congress “will” overreach and the public “will” react.

Look for president-elect stealth to make massive changes behind the scenes by tripling bureaucratic comissions and study groups and the appointees to staff all those new programs. Not to mention the hundred or so federal U.S. district judgeships that are up for grabs in the next 18 months. Everything will be under the radar !

One example is his “end around” trick play to bring back the Fairness Doctrine while at the same time convincing the MSM that he’s not doing it. It’s called localism.”

He’s one sneaky son of a bitch !


The battle for freedom must be won over and over again.

AKAJOEL on December 1, 2008 at 05:10 am

People whose recipe for recovery today is another New Deal should remember that America’s biggest industrial collapse occurred in 1937, eight years after the 1929 stock market crash and nearly five years into the New Deal.


The battle for freedom must be won over and over again.

AKAJOEL on December 1, 2008 at 05:17 am

When FDR went conservative and decides to balance the budget.

industrial collapse occurred in 1937,

WOOF on December 1, 2008 at 05:32 am

Short and selective memories and self-imposed blindness.

You stupid marxist morons, blinded by your sycophantic emotionalism, don’t seem to remember [or never knew] about Obama’s big-spending voting record in the Illinois legislature and the extremely irresponsible way in which he dealt with the Illinois state budget crisis and deficit.

These community organizers are only and always about redistribution. That is the core of their ideology.

When Onama was in the Illinois legislature EVERYTHING he did was focused on economic redistribution. His buddy Bill Ayers believes in redistribution of our hard earned money. ACORN believes in redistribution of our hard earned money....but none of you morons even tried to connect the dots.

And that’s not even the worst of it. It’s not just that all these communist fuckers are for economic redistribution of our hard earned money [see-Obama’s 845 Billion Global Poverty Act(S.2433)] it is that they are for the radicalization of U.S. education. Just look at Obama’s good buddy Bill Ayers again. The fact of the matter is, to this day he is in charge of the curricula for quite a bit of public education and people in academia have been circling the wagons around this guy. He’s praising Hugo Chavez. He is radicalizing students and teachers to teach students to oppose the capitalist system and to promote a marxist system.

It’s far more than just redistribution, it is a fundamental redefinition of the way this country exists and how it will continue to exist because this redefinition is going to de-emphasize the Founding of our great country as thoroughly as these people can.


The battle for freedom must be won over and over again.

AKAJOEL on December 1, 2008 at 06:14 am

Move_Zig,

I haven’t heard a word from eunuchized the beardless catamite of the ”freudian projections” and severe reluctance bordering on inability to admit error in at least several weeks, and possibly several months.

Any reports of kiddie pool drownings from Hawaii?


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on December 1, 2008 at 06:48 am

I think some SAB badboy scared him off.


The battle for freedom must be won over and over again.

AKAJOEL on December 1, 2008 at 07:02 am

It’s always easy to identify people who don’t invest by the way they attack those that do. The irony is that they beleive they are the experienced ones.

Mickey on December 1, 2008 at 07:08 am

The stock market under dems always outperforms the markets under republicans.

nonsense.

The economy under Bush exceeded clintons economy in growth inspite of 911 and two wars.

Facts elude you:
Debauched
insipid
nihilistic
obnoxious troll

(good one) lol

Mickey on December 1, 2008 at 07:11 am
Avatar for Dino

Ah yes, the time-shifting conservatives are at it again.

You brainstems say that the new President is responsible for everything that happens from election, right? But when Clinton had a so-called “good” economy you credited Reagan saying that there’s a time-lag between policy and effect. (Conveniently forgetting the republican recession we had under Bush the first. Go figure!)

So which is it, brainstems? Is it an immediate thing or is there a delay? (Not, Tom DeLay, he was foced out for republican corruption scandals, a topic for a different thread.)

Or does the timeframe simply shift in your small minds to benefit your clouded, totally uninformed view of the world?

[PS. to dl: If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Your mock outrage over just about everything that doesn’t agree with you is getting really old.]

Dino on December 1, 2008 at 08:01 am
Avatar for Dino

The economy under Bush exceeded clintons economy in growth inspite of 911 and two wars.

Could be a contender for stupid brainstem statement of the year. Revenues always increase as our economy grows. However, the economy grew faster and stronger when Clinton raised taxes than when bush cut them. Then of course there’s the record deficits we’re experiencing. You probably ignore those. And that economic meltdown occurring at the end of bush’s 8 years? We can ignore that too if it fits your idiotic beliefs.

Dino on December 1, 2008 at 08:05 am

Our latest troll

Debauched
insipid
nihilistic
obnoxious troll

the winy bitch and “...pathetic old homosexual” can’t read:

Yep, take one of the two positions:

1.  Obama gets the credit/blame for the economy since Election Day.

2.  Obama gets the credit/blame for the economy starting six to twleve months after his inauguration.

then stick with it.

I usually work on the second theory.

Debauched
insipid
nihilistic
obnoxious troll

the winy bitch and “...pathetic old homosexual” seems to go with whatever he thinks makes his case at the moment.

Pathetic.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on December 1, 2008 at 08:08 am
Avatar for Dino

Oh, mickey, blaming FDR for the Depression is realy smart. In fact, the people of that time agreed when they gave FDR FOUR TERMS AND REJECTED REPUBLICANS IN HUGE NUMBERS.

By 1938 republicans had dropped to NINETEEN PERCENT of Congress. No, you didn’t read that wrong. NINETEEN PERCENT.

LOL, yeah, it was all FDR’s fault, despite the fact that REPUBLICANS ran the country for the 30 years prior to the Depression, much as they did prior to the new one we’re going into. Conservatism is and always will be a failed ideology that has no place in a civilized society.

Dino on December 1, 2008 at 08:13 am
Rob
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I don’t think FDR can be blamed for creating the Great Depression, but he certainly shouldn’t be credited with fixing it.

People suggest that FDR’s increases in government spending gave people new jobs.  But the problem is that those increases in government spending came with increases in taxation.  FDR created government jobs by taking away the ability of the private sector to create jobs.

Ultimately it made things worse, because FDR’s government also took a chunk of those collected taxes (as all governments do) for administration.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 1, 2008 at 08:32 am
Avatar for Dino

Funny, those tax increases corresponded with a huge expansion in the country, great progress and the creation of a huge middle class. Well, the last part is also due to unionization, another conservative bogeyman.

We should be so lucky as to see days like that again in our lifetimes. After 30 years of conservatism, it’s likely to take another 30 to reverse the negative effects.

Dino on December 1, 2008 at 08:40 am

I don’t think FDR can be blamed for creating the Great Depression

But he sure as hell can be blamed for creating the communist NEW DEAL. Everything that’s happened recently is a derivative of New Deal, Great Society marxism and of the actions of its current day adherents like Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary & Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and hell yes...that effing marxist piece of shit, Hussein Obama.


The battle for freedom must be won over and over again.

AKAJOEL on December 1, 2008 at 08:43 am
Avatar for Dino

akajoel has slipped the rails and is careening towards complete and utter idiocy.

Dino on December 1, 2008 at 08:45 am
Rob
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Funny, those tax increases corresponded with a huge expansion in the country, great progress and the creation of a huge middle class.

No, they didn’t.

We didn’t see economic expansion until the ramp-up for WWII, and the post-war era.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 1, 2008 at 09:03 am
Avatar for Dino

FDR taxation continued largely until reagan cut them after which we saw declining wages for the middle class and a huge increase in income inequality, both of which continue to this day.

I realize that doesn’t bother people who still pine for the feudal system, though.

Dino on December 1, 2008 at 09:11 am
Avatar for Dino

Market down today. Let me guess- it’s because Hillary was named Secretary of State?

Or is it Carter’s fault?

Dino on December 1, 2008 at 09:32 am

Monday, December 1, 2008 - 2:27 PM;

DOW down -504.33 points.

Four hours after Obama announces some more cabinet appointments.

so much for the Obama bounce

Mickey on December 1, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Rob
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FDR taxation continued largely until reagan cut them after which we saw declining wages for the middle class and a huge increase in income inequality, both of which continue to this day.

That’s not true, actually.  Kennedy cut taxes in 1963:

when deficits are increasing due to sluggish economic growth and we suddenly confront emergency spending needs that tax rates should be slashed to speed growth and increase the size of the economy to pay for the new spending. The temporary increase in the deficit contemplated by the president’s tax proposals is minuscule in the first five years (less than 1 percent of GDP) and thereafter will be completely offset - and eventually reversed - by higher growth. Vice President Cheney said “… the president’s package will generate new growth, it will expand the tax base and thus increase tax revenue to the federal government ultimately.”

That’s what President Kennedy proposed, and it is really inexplicable and disappointing that Democrats never seem to learn from the experience of Kennedy’s tax cuts. It’s also disappointing, and unfathomable to me, that some Republicans will not learn from the success of President Reagan’s tax rate reductions in the early 1980s.

In 1963, as the military buildup in Vietnam was beginning and defense spending was on the rise, Congress enacted Kennedy’s tax-rate reductions.

Economic growth picked up and the deficit fell. By 1965, economic growth had increased sufficiently that in spite of increased defense spending, the budget was essentially balanced. Except for one year (1968), the deficit was 1.5 percent of GDP or less throughout the decade, even as defense spending averaged 8.5 percent of GDP, which is more than twice the 4.4 percent we will spend on defense this year, including the president’s emergency request for an additional $75 billion.

You should try actually knowing what you’re talking about.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 1, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Update on non-rally rally:

Dow drops nearly 680 on consumer spending worries
1649 hours- 12-01-08


The battle for freedom must be won over and over again.

AKAJOEL on December 1, 2008 at 02:15 pm
Avatar for Dino

So the record deficits approaching 1 trillion bucks- due to what, sunspots? Liberal babies? Abortion? Poor black people?

Funny how you punctuate your posts with “you are stupid” or “you should get out more” or come crap which is hilarious coming from anyone in a group that refuses to read anything besides World Net Daily and NewsMax. LOL!

Dino on December 1, 2008 at 02:52 pm
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So the record deficits approaching 1 trillion bucks- due to what, sunspots? Liberal babies? Abortion? Poor black people?

You’re talking about the national debt, genius, not the budget deficits.

And while the debt has grown under President Bush, the budget deficits (or, put another way, the rate in growth of the debt) have actually declined thanks to increased economic activity caused by the stimulus of the Bush tax cuts.

I’m not completely exonerating Bush/Republicans of spending problems here either.  Just pointing out once again that you have no idea what you’re talking about.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on December 1, 2008 at 02:58 pm
Avatar for Dino

Hey geniuses. The market is tanking thanks to republican mismanagement of the economy!

Read The New Yorker this week about the Fed’s total f*ck up. The conservative, free-market driven Fed.

You may need to find a liberal to read it for you and translate. it’s pretty hard for a brainstem to comprehend!

Dino on December 1, 2008 at 03:04 pm

Wrong again, idiot!  Wasteful social spending, the incessant negative propaganda from the MSM, the threat of Obamunism, Dem social engineering and the threat of nationalization are the causes.


The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

robert108 on December 1, 2008 at 03:21 pm

If you’re going to credit Obama for the market going up, it is disingenuous to assign blame somewhere else when it goes down.  Why did Obama make the market go down almost 700 points today?


The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

robert108 on December 1, 2008 at 03:27 pm

The nutters are restless now that The Truth is out of the bag.

Such screeching and unhinging, it’s like they are auditioning to be hannity’s standing when he is off on a freedumb tour.


Excuse me, you were saying?


realitybasedbob's signature
realitybasedbob on December 1, 2008 at 03:28 pm

Why Golly!

blackwaterboob shows up to defend

Debauched
insipid
nihilistic
obnoxious troll

the winy bitch and “...pathetic old homosexual.”

Just how close are you two?


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on December 1, 2008 at 04:38 pm

Why Golly! Capt’n Jack is back...somewhere a punch bowl is missing its turd.


Excuse me, you were saying?


realitybasedbob's signature
realitybasedbob on December 1, 2008 at 04:45 pm

I’ve nae been gone, blackwaterboob.

Still all hat and no cattle I see, and your choice of BFFF:

Debauched
insipid
nihilistic
obnoxious troll

the winy bitch and “...pathetic old homosexual” is about what we would expect of you since your other BFFF eunuchized the beardless catamite of the ”freudian projections” and severe reluctance bordering on inability to admit error fled the field.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on December 1, 2008 at 04:49 pm

This whole
D
I
N
O
thing is silly...who is the troll again?

The one posting and discussing and debating or the people who reply with insults?

I’m not even saying you have to or you should agree with him but for fucks sake attempt to debate it instead of plain insulting. It is childlike.

Rodney you spend the majority of your posts insulting people and Robert108 spends his time shouting MARXISM!!!!!!!!!!!


"When you lefties spew your Marxist bullshit, I will smack you with the truth; get used to it.”

Rezistik on December 1, 2008 at 04:50 pm

Rezistik,

You’re apparently new here, so we’ll cut you some slack.

dino the whiny bitch and “...pathetic homosexual” has not been engaging in debate, and has demonstrated an ignorance of history and the facts on the ground which one must suspect is deliberate.  Those are the hallmarks of folks who are not here to debate, but to harass.

I treat such asshats as they deserve.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on December 1, 2008 at 04:57 pm

Rezistik,

Here’s the ipse dixit version (what can I say, you inspired me!)

Debauched
insipid
nihilistic
obnoxious troll

the winy bitch and “...pathetic old homosexual”.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on December 1, 2008 at 05:30 pm

For those who have only been in govt indoctrination “schools”, ipse dixit is Latin for “he said it himself”.(literal translation)


The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

robert108 on December 1, 2008 at 05:35 pm

Unregulated bipartisan greed caused this mess. Dems and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, were equally on the take. 

Mr. Obama will fare no better or worse than any other president in dealing with this, since presidents have absolutely no power to regulate the marketplace. That power lies solely with congress.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The times, they are a-changin’...
Bob Dylan

pparets on December 1, 2008 at 05:52 pm

Mark my words.

By 2010, folks will be sick of the CHANGE they’ve been getting—good and hard.


...for great justice

2eaqln4.jpg

91bh36.jpg

52zx1x.jpg

Move_Zig on December 1, 2008 at 05:56 pm

I sooo hope you are right.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The times, they are a-changin’...
Bob Dylan

pparets on December 1, 2008 at 06:00 pm

Unregulated bipartisan greed caused this mess.

Nope.  Govt greed to buy votes by equalizing outcomes and to extend the power of govt over lenders caused this.


The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

robert108 on December 1, 2008 at 06:01 pm

Govt greed to buy votes by equalizing outcomes and to extend the power of govt over lenders caused this.

... a difference without a distinction.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The times, they are a-changin’...
Bob Dylan

pparets on December 1, 2008 at 07:23 pm

… a difference without a distinction.

Nope.  It wasn’t “bipartisan”, it was all Dem.


The only legitimate role of government with regard to economics is to prevent fraud and provide a remedy- civil and criminal penalties- in case of fraud.

People have the mistaken notion that the free market has no rules.  But it most certainly does.  All our problems are due to government meddling.

robert108 on December 1, 2008 at 08:29 pm

Why the pandering pp?


The battle for freedom must be won over and over again.

AKAJOEL on December 1, 2008 at 08:36 pm

The New Yorker, lol, that’s a fish wrap. Their writers are debunked in every issue.

Mickey on December 1, 2008 at 09:37 pm

the winy bitch and “...pathetic old homosexual.”
Just how close are you two?

Rodney Graves on December 1, 2008 at 04:38 pm

Beloved Rodney. I see that having nothing to say, you, like your sidekick Robert108, are engaging in what is a pastime of the know nothings. Namely acting like children, saying things like, my mommas cunt is bigger than your mommas cunt, and assorted other bullshit. If you don’t change your ways you are going to force me to shove lots of piper nigrum L. in your mouth.

ellinas on December 1, 2008 at 10:16 pm

Molon Labe.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on December 1, 2008 at 10:19 pm

No! no! no!. I am not going to molon lave. You will bring me that dirty mouth of yours for the piper nigrum L. treatment.
Now compose yourself and abstain from further childish behaviour.

PS. Judging from your avatar you don’t look like Leonidas.
He was a practitioner of pangration not Hapkido.
Also his lance was bigger than yours.

ellinas on December 1, 2008 at 10:32 pm

Take a very deep breath and hold it while waiting for me to either modify my online behavior at your request or to show up at your doorstep for administration of such.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on December 2, 2008 at 06:24 am

Beloved Rodney. I will take a big breath, hold it and wait for you to modify your online behavior, because I know that you are a decent man, and not a brat! Please hurry up, for I am an old man who cannot hold his breath for long. Do that (modify your online behavior) in lieu of the Christmas gift you promised to send me.

ellinas on December 2, 2008 at 08:34 am
Avatar for Dino

No Rob, I’m talking about budget deficits, not the debt. Though bush did double the debt in 8 years. That’s around $11 trillion. Who’s the idiot now?

From Bloomberg:

Australia would join other developed nations forecasting budget deficits in 2009. The U.S. government shortfall may top $1 trillion next year and spending in the U.K. will swell the budget deficit to 118 billion pounds ($181 billion) in the year starting April 2009.

Dino on December 2, 2008 at 09:15 am

The cause: Wasteful social spending by greedy govt.  Almost all the greedy govt social spending schemes were in place before President Bush took office, courtesy of Dem social engineers.  The greedy Dems blocked his efforts to cut their wasteful pet programs, time and time again.  He wanted to address the SS problem, but the greedy Dems blocked that, with the aid of the MSM.  You hypocritical Dems want to increase spending, but then criticize President Bush for spending.  Were you lying before, or are you lying now?


The