Nice refutation of the obvious fact that they will have to take away services from seniors.

This is the kind of cutting edge response we expect from you E.

You shouldn’t curse your kid. If you don’t want to pay for his schooling then don’t.

He is not even good at being a political strategist. He is only good for being a paid talking head to bash Democrats. That is all he does.

Except that he was the chief political strategist for Bill Clinton, so I guess he does more than just bash Democrats!

Ellinas are you denying that the Democrats are going to “pay” for this by spending less on Medicare?

Are you denying that Medicare is already broke?

Are you denying that the need for seniors health care is going to continue to climb precipitously?

Or do you have some kind of way that they’ll spend less but cover more people somehow magically.

You asked in your first post what made Morris an expert.

I have a question, what is it in Obama’s vast range of experience that makes him an expert to take over everyone’s health care?

Followup question would be what programs of this complexity have the Democrats in Congress enacted that have delivered what was promised and for the price they “estimated?”

The question on whether to spend all of that money on Ellinas’s aunt raises the chief difficulty with the third party payer system.

It’s not society’s job to take your money and then decide what to give it back to you in services because you’ve had your run.

Dino hates her and hates everyone. Ellinas just wants to see if he was in the will.

But maybe if it were her money she’d want it differently.

We need to get away from government payments and third party payments as much as possible. Of course we’re going to have destitute seniors (and some others that can’t work (as opposed to won’t) that have to be helped, but in general people should be spending their own money on their own health care.

English bad in that sentence but I think I puzzled out the meaning.

So why is it that you’re against illegals working but turn a blind eye to them getting welfare and free medical. Both amount to keep the illegal aliens here in this country but since they produce nothing of value getting welfare it’s worse for all of us that are here legally.

You’re not being consistent on this.

BTW, you should have had your aunt make a living will.

Morris became an adviser to the Bill Clinton administration after Clinton was elected president in 1992. Morris encouraged Clinton to pursue so-called third way policies of triangulation that merged traditional Republican and Democratic proposals, rhetoric, and issues to achieve maximum political gain and popularity. He worked as a Republican strategist before joining the Clinton administration, where he helped Clinton recover from the 1994 midterm elections by convincing the President to adopt Republican policies

So when the Dims say that they will pay for their health care takeover by spending a LOT less on Medicare what does that mean?

We know medicare is broke already.

Ellinas did you have a point or anything? Taking money from your Auntie and giving it to a bunch of illegal aliens sure doesn’t make it better.

Kenny. I have been to Canada (Vancouver BC), Melbourne Australia, and Nice in France. The people there look healthy and happy. There are tons of old folks going about their business.
Some Canadians come to the US for medical care. So what.

Last year around September 2008, my wife’s elderly aunt (82 years old) got sick. She required hospitalization. I told my mother in law, that aunt won’t make it to Christmas.
Told her children to take her home and allow her to die with dignity.
No one listened. They kept her at the fucking hospital. The doctors and the hospital knew she was dying. Yet they did everything to save her and in the process they milked the system/Medicare with needless tests and procedures.
Aunt died December 24 2009 at 23.33 hrs.
Hospital bill almost $500.000. That does not include the doctors.
What was accomplished? IMO not a damn thing.

Nearly every prediction Dick Morris has made on Fox has been a flop.

He is not even good at being a political strategist. He is only good for being a paid talking head to bash Democrats. That is all he does.

Whistler,

Many people use Medicare (and SS) who are, of course, fairly affluent, since we know that the 65+ age group is the most affluent age group (logically). Anyway, many of these people are going to bear the brunt of this twice — once on the tax side and once on the “sorry, no more healthcare for you” side.

Ellinas did you have a point or anything? Taking money from your Auntie and giving it to a bunch of illegal aliens sure doesn’t make it better.
The Whistler on July 15, 2009 at 04:41 pm

My point is this. Everybody knew she was dying. Everybody profited from her misery. Allowing this person to die at home with love and dignity is not rationing health care.

As far as the illegals go, a whole bunch of them were working at the hospital cleaning toilets, mopping floors, etc.
As long as the employers employ them the will keep consuming resources that are meant for the citizens.

So why is it that you’re against illegals working but turn a blind eye to them getting welfare and free medical.
The Whistler on July 15, 2009 at 05:29 pm

I have been blogging here for quite some time now, and I guess you have not been paying attention.
I have never advocated and or turned a blind eye “to them getting welfare and free medical”.

Every semester that I plunk down $15,000 for my youngest to go the university, I curse the freeloaders. However I don’t bitch about it my every waking hour.

You shouldn’t curse your kid.
The Whistler on July 15, 2009 at 05:55 pm

I don’t curse my kid. I curse and blame robert180
=)

If 85 year olds no longer receive liver transplants, I won’t lose any sleep. Particularly if they’re republicans.

The opposite of rationing is unending treatment. Most of you wouldn’t spend $5000 on a car with 200,000 miles on it but want to pretend you’d spend unlimited amounts of money on someone on their way out. I say pretend because you really don’t care about anyone else’s loved ones not receiving care, just your own. And even then I doubt it.

That was Clinton’s downfall and a mistake that Obama won’t make. See, Obama doesn’t have to “reach out” to the republicans. They’re so unpopular for the way they destroyed the economy and damaged the country, no one really gives a shit what those walking turds support or don’t support.

All Clinton got for reaching out was a mangled and bloody hand.

Conservatives can’t be reasoned with and must be simply rolled over.

Hospital bill almost $500.000. That does not include the doctors.
What was accomplished? IMO not a damn thing.

The doctors followed the wishes of the family to try and save her. Think of the alternative here, the doctors say “piss off” when they don’t want to treat someone and they die. That’s a really crappy alternative.

Kenny. I have been to Canada (Vancouver BC), Melbourne Australia, and Nice in France. The people there look healthy and happy. There are tons of old folks going about their business.
Some Canadians come to the US for medical care. So what.

That’s a ridiculously inane response. People look healthy! As opposed to what? Ethiopia? Uzbekistan? Of course most people look healthy. The same is true in the US. Any other vapid comments on Canada? Is the sky blue there too? Water still wet?

Eye roll.

Please show me where are Dick Morris’ facts, so I can refute him with my facts.
Quit being snarky and produce the facts that Morris is talking about in the article that Whistler used for this post.

Here’s the facts of the article. Since you pretend there were none:

the elderly of Canada are feeling from just this kind of program. Limited colonoscopies have led to a 25% higher rate of colon cancer and a ban on the use of the two best chemotherapies are part of the reason why 42% of Canadians with colon cancer die while 31% of Americans, who have access to these two medications, survive the disease.Overall, the death rate from cancer in Canada is 16% higher than in the United States and the heart disease mortality rate is 6% above ours’.
Today, 800,000 doctors struggle to treat adequately the 250 million Americans who have insurance. Obama will add 50 million more to their caseload with no expansion in the number of doctors or nurses. Indeed, his plan will likely reduce their number by lowering reimbursement rates and imposing bureaucrats above them who will force medical decisions down their throats. Fewer doctors will have to treat more patients. The inevitable result will be rationing.

And the irony of Dino saying “Fuck old people” while pretending he is compassionate is sickening.

We’re still the ones with the money… and the guns!

How much Obama raised during the 2008 campaign: $656 million

How much McCain raised: $200 million

As for the guns, Obama has the military. Don’t think they’ll side with Goldman Sachs’ Toady Army.

As for the guns, Obama has the military. Don’t think they’ll side with Goldman Sachs’ Toady Army.

Delusional little dino doesn’t realize that Goldman-Sachs is one of Obama’s toadies.
Furthermore, don’t depend on the military following Obama when things get totalitarian; he’s pushing for his own security army for a very good reason(in his thinking).

Whistler’s point about personal responsibility for one’s own health care and health care decisions is THE key to any rational assessment of what to do about this issue.

My own parents are now well into their eighties, and for every single day of the past 15 years I have carried a signed and notarized “living will” document in my briefcase giving me sole, final authority regarding their care and any end-of-life decisions that might need to be made. It was important enough to them and to me that their wishes regarding their care be known and respected, especially when they might no longer be able to make those wishes known themselves.

That is the very essence of personal responsibility.

No one takes AZT anymore.

Your elderly parents wouldn’t have health insurance if not for Medicare. If they could find coverage the premiums would eat them alive.

Not true. Their retirement “package” provides for very generous healthcare coverage for as long as they live. That Medicare is legislatively mandated as primary is neither their fault nor their decision.

But comments about their insurance coverage neatly sidestep the point, which was their forethought in assuming personal responsibility for their own end-of-life decisions, which was also the original subject of this thread. Obama’s disingenuous shouting “Crisis” belies the fact, and is meant encourage more, not less, personal irresponsibility.

Dick Morris’ assessment is correct, no matter what argumentative adolescents like Hannitized might (on rare occasions!) think.

Their retirement “package” provides for very generous healthcare coverage for as long as they live.

Then tell them to stop making claims against Medicare. They won’t.

Now go ahead. Tell me they don’t make Medicare claims. Then you can join Citizen who told me his parents died young and never got Medicare. Later he said he father died at 91.

You people simply lie to support your greed-based, selfishness-ridden mindset. Sometimes you slip like when Sigfan admitted his mother is in a nursing home on Medicaid yet he complains about government helping others.

No slip moron – I never said what she gets from Medicare/Medicaid, only that she applied for it. Her care is wholly paid for by her own funds, insurance and pension, and she bought into a managed care for life plan with those funds. It cost her everything she had, but that was her desire. Her money, her life, her choice. If she gets any benefit from the government, it is discounted prescriptions through Medicare.

And even if they were paying her bills in their entirety, so what? I have asked you point blank questions that you never answered. If they weren’t supposed to ever collect that money back, then why did the government take it from them? How much as a percentage of your income is it worth to you to have the government run (or ruin) your life for you? People in my parents generation were still gullible enough to believe that a promise, even from the government, was just that, a promise. Now that we see how well they’ve kept those promises you expect us to trust them with even more? Only an idiot keeps coming back for more punishment.

Beware of hacks like Dick Morris.
“Limited colonoscopies have led to a 25% higher rate of colon cancer and a ban on the use of the two best chemotherapies are part of the reason why 42% of Canadians with colon cancer die while 31% of Americans, who have access to these two medications, survive the disease.”

This is what he actually says: 42% percent of the Canadians with colon cancer die.
Now if only 31% of Americans with access to the two medications that are banned in Canada, that means that 69% die.

Who are you gonna trust. The hack called Dick Morris, or the numbers I am presenting you with.
My challenge to you all. Crunch the numbers for yourselves.

I agree that we should euthanize old sick people. Lets start with Ted Kennedy.

You just love that hook in your mouth..LOL!!